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3 phase triggered arc gap made for alternator tesla coil

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  • harvich
    Much experimentation has taken place on the subject of using a 3 phase triggered arc gap for a tesla coil. The gap appears to function well, BUT I still have
    Message 1 of 2 , Sep 2 11:58 PM
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      Much experimentation has taken place on the subject of using a 3
      phase triggered arc gap for a tesla coil. The gap appears to function
      well, BUT I still have not been able to get my secondary to show a
      top terminal air born discharge. Several issues regarding polarity
      issues for its operation led to changing the arrangements twice.
      These will have to be dealt with later on, as they involve quite a
      bit of explanation. A breif explanation of this arc gap can be made
      here without going into the proper polarity issues, and why by logic
      certain things had to be changed. This apparently also led to a
      discovery about the proper way to resonate spirals, something that
      did not become immediately obvious, but if memory serves correct was
      born out by proof of meter readings, but I will have to refer back to
      those written notes later to ascertain whether that proof was
      indicated by those readings. Another longer document is in the works
      to explain all these subsidiary issues.

      As previously noted this concept involves using both resonant
      interphasing (RI)AND resonant current ballasting (RCB) of a 10 kva
      pole pig on the primary side.
      Reffering to the RI schematic;
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/files/RI/Dsc00260.jpg
      the bottom resonance L4C4 becomes the predominant amperage carrier,
      and is placed in magnetic opposition to L3C3 and retuned in that
      mutual inductance, to create the highest midpoint voltage rise on
      L3C3. It is this voltage rise that becomes the middle electrode for
      the 3 phase triggered arc gap.

      Then the quantity L4C4 is split into two sets of spirals in mutual
      inductance with L3C3, so that this can be used for a resonant current
      ballasting RCB of the pole pig as shown at
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/files/MARX/DSC00093.JPG

      The (supposed) fallacy of this approach, and the corrections later
      made can be left as a useful mental exercize for those able to see
      why certain corrections to that approach had to be made, but
      irregardless those corrections will be noted later in a more lengthy
      posting. What becomes amuzing in making the obvious corrections is
      that the interelatedness of all aspects quickly becomes apparent.
      Essentially by changing one thing, it does not immediately become
      apparent on first glance how that action changes another aspect.

      It has been mentioned that the 41 nf capacity first used in testings
      with an 30 ma NST had difficulty in firing that gap. I was quite
      surprised to find that no such limitations existed in firing the same
      capacity with this 3 phase triggered arc gap. However since no air
      born discharges have yet been made using this method, (on my most
      primitive 14 gauge secondary model), this actually means nothing at
      all.
      I am now quite convinced that the small dimensions of my primary on
      this coil has everything to do with this problem, and now a scheme of
      typical Norris overkill is in the plannings to correct the problem. I
      am sure a great deal of laughter will be made when folks see the
      substitute I will try to make for this primary. The secondary with
      the NST firing at
      Neon 8 inches above non arcing 1500 ft, 14 gauge TC secondary, (
      tuning near 1/4 wavelength)
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/files/ATC/Dsc00267.jpg
      became most unusual in the fact that when the secondary was given a
      direct line connection to primary, via Oudin method, then no neon
      action was noted????
      However with the 480 hz input via 3 phase triggered arc gap, no neon
      action at all has been obtained, unless the Oudin method was
      employed. The great no. of tests using a large amount of differing
      capacities made in this regard has become most discouraging, but all
      these things should be approached in the spirit of finding out the
      things that DONT work as a gradual process of elimination. I am able
      to send at least 300 watts from the alternator into the process, and
      while this is not a great deal of input energy, one would at least
      think some kind of top terminal arcing should be available with this
      input. Some of the secondary windings have become switched around on
      the sonotube secondary, so this is indeed not a perfect secondary to
      be working with in the first place, and of course a 14 gauge
      secondary would also be very inefficient. Perhaps the lateral
      placement, and relative vicinity of metal in the garage might be
      another issue for making this failure to perform.
      Neon Polar Capacity Bulb to TC secondary interior volume for scope
      test
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/files/ATC/Dsc00266.jpg
      shows the small dimensions of this 10 gauge insulated primary of
      black wire, which will be replaced by a much larger version if this
      construction becomes feasible.
      Another theory and guideline for tuning is that the placement of this
      neon polar capacity discharge in the interior area of the secondary
      might actually be stimulating a half wavelength responce on that
      scoped secondary shown at
      TC Secondary scoping by neon polar capacity/ alternator air core
      transfomer method/ 0.5 volts/div; 5 us/div
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/files/ATC/Dsc00263.jpg
      The consensus is that the 1500 ft length secondary with a 1.5/1 h/d
      ratio should resonate near twice the 111,000 hz found on scoping, but
      if this secondary is responding at a half wavelength value, instead
      of 1/4, this would explain the differences in the scoped signal.
      Capacities employed for a 222,000 secondary resonance with the 50 uH
      primary however have shown no good results for any airborn arcing of
      top terminal.
      3 phase triggered arc gap
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/files/ATC/Dsc00269.jpg
      shows the secondary top terminal connected to neon and large toolbox
      as terminal top capacity. However since this is also a Oudin
      connection of secondary to primary, those results mean very little at
      all. It is hoped that someone can bring a small previously tuned
      tesla coil to this years NE Ohio Teslathon, Saturday Sept 7th, to try
      with these 480 hz inputs, to see if there is actually any merit at
      all to these methods employing a 3 phase triggered arc gap via 480 hz
      alternator input. As mentioned my power input is limited to 300
      watts, but I would be glad to at least see a 1 inch arc, rather than
      none at all, which is what is being made at this time. The above gap
      was made with ~ 15 volts input, consuming 6.8 amps on the RCB made
      primary, with an additional amp recorded as the stator line going to
      the top delta connection. This is probably half the amount available
      from the alternator for short runs without excessive heating occuring
      on the alternator. Unfortunately during the making of this jpeg, the
      voltage meter across L3C3 decided to quit working, so I am never
      buying another meter from Radio Shack again without a warrantee, as
      that voltage was well below the specified 750 volt AC specs the meter
      is advertised for. Additionally I know when NOT to use a meter by the
      signs of transients that develope on its digital display. The
      amperage reading on L3C3 was immediately disconnected when this was
      noted, but no such problems on the voltage reading had been noted.
      But I guess if ANY problems on a branch were noted, ALL of the meters
      on that branch should have been removed, so I will try to remember
      this fact.
      Sincerely HDN
    • harvey norris
      Much experimentation has taken place on the subject of using a 3 phase triggered arc gap for a tesla coil. The gap appears to function well, BUT I still have
      Message 2 of 2 , Sep 3 12:01 AM
      • 0 Attachment
        Much experimentation has taken place on the subject of
        using a 3 phase triggered arc gap for a tesla coil.
        The gap appears to function well, BUT I still have not
        been able to get my secondary to show a top terminal
        air born discharge. Several issues regarding polarity
        issues for its operation led to changing the
        arrangements twice. These will have to be dealt with
        later on, as they involve quite a bit of explanation.
        A breif explanation of this arc gap can be made here
        without going into the proper polarity issues, and
        why by logic certain things had to be changed. This
        apparently also led to a discovery about the proper
        way to resonate spirals, something that did not become
        immediately obvious, but if memory serves correct was
        born out by proof of meter readings, but I will have
        to refer back to those written notes later to
        ascertain whether that proof was indicated by those
        readings. Another longer document is in the works to
        explain all these subsidiary issues.

        As previously noted this concept involves using both
        resonant interphasing (RI)AND resonant current
        ballasting (RCB) of a 10 kva pole pig on the primary
        side.
        Reffering to the RI schematic;
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/files/RI/Dsc00260.jpg
        the bottom resonance L4C4 becomes the predominant
        amperage carrier, and is placed in magnetic opposition
        to L3C3 and retuned in that mutual inductance, to
        create the highest midpoint voltage rise on L3C3. It
        is this voltage rise that becomes the middle electrode
        for the 3 phase triggered arc gap.

        Then the quantity L4C4 is split into two sets of
        spirals in mutual inductance with L3C3, so that this
        can be used for a resonant current ballasting RCB of
        the pole pig as shown at
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/files/MARX/DSC00093.JPG

        The (supposed) fallacy of this approach, and the
        corrections later made can be left as a useful mental
        exercize for those able to see why certain corrections
        to that approach had to be made, but irregardless
        those corrections will be noted later in a more
        lengthy posting. What becomes amuzing in making the
        obvious corrections is that the interelatedness of all
        aspects quickly becomes apparent. Essentially by
        changing one thing, it does not immediately become
        apparent on first glance how that action changes
        another aspect.

        It has been mentioned that the 41 nf capacity first
        used in testings with an 30 ma NST had difficulty in
        firing that gap. I was quite surprised to find that no
        such limitations existed in firing the same capacity
        with this 3 phase triggered arc gap. However since no
        air born discharges have yet been made using this
        method, (on my most primitive 14 gauge secondary
        model), this actually means nothing at all.
        I am now quite convinced that the small dimensions of
        my primary on this coil has everything to do with this
        problem, and now a scheme of typical Norris overkill
        is in the plannings to correct the problem. I am sure
        a great deal of laughter will be made when folks see
        the substitute I will try to make for this primary.
        The secondary with the NST firing at
        Neon 8 inches above non arcing 1500 ft, 14 gauge TC
        secondary, ( tuning near 1/4 wavelength)
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/files/ATC/Dsc00267.jpg
        became most unusual in the fact that when the
        secondary was given a direct line connection to
        primary, via Oudin method, then no neon action was
        noted????
        However with the 480 hz input via 3 phase triggered
        arc gap, no neon action at all has been obtained,
        unless the Oudin method was employed. The great no. of
        tests using a large amount of differing capacities
        made in this regard has become most discouraging, but
        all these things should be approached in the spirit of
        finding out the things that DONT work as a gradual
        process of elimination. I am able to send at least 300
        watts from the alternator into the process, and while
        this is not a great deal of input energy, one would at
        least think some kind of top terminal arcing should be
        available with this input. Some of the secondary
        windings have become switched around on the sonotube
        secondary, so this is indeed not a perfect secondary
        to be working with in the first place, and of course a
        14 gauge secondary would also be very inefficient.
        Perhaps the lateral placement, and relative vicinity
        of metal in the garage might be another issue for
        making this failure to perform.
        Neon Polar Capacity Bulb to TC secondary interior
        volume for scope test
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/files/ATC/Dsc00266.jpg
        shows the small dimensions of this 10 gauge insulated
        primary of black wire, which will be replaced by a
        much larger version if this construction becomes
        feasible.
        Another theory and guideline for tuning is that the
        placement of this neon polar capacity discharge in the
        interior area of the secondary might actually be
        stimulating a half wavelength responce on that scoped
        secondary shown at
        TC Secondary scoping by neon polar capacity/
        alternator air core transfomer method/ 0.5 volts/div;
        5 us/div
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/files/ATC/Dsc00263.jpg
        The consensus is that the 1500 ft length secondary
        with a 1.5/1 h/d ratio should resonate near twice the
        111,000 hz found on scoping, but if this secondary is
        responding at a half wavelength value, instead of 1/4,
        this would explain the differences in the scoped
        signal. Capacities employed for a 222,000 secondary
        resonance with the 50 uH primary however have shown no
        good results for any airborn arcing of top terminal.
        3 phase triggered arc gap
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/files/ATC/Dsc00269.jpg
        shows the secondary top terminal connected to neon and
        large toolbox as terminal top capacity. However since
        this is also a Oudin connection of secondary to
        primary, those results mean very little at all. It is
        hoped that someone can bring a small previously tuned
        tesla coil to this years NE Ohio Teslathon, Saturday
        Sept 7th, to try with these 480 hz inputs, to see if
        there is actually any merit at all to these methods
        employing a 3 phase triggered arc gap via 480 hz
        alternator input. As mentioned my power input is
        limited to 300 watts, but I would be glad to at least
        see a 1 inch arc, rather than none at all, which is
        what is being made at this time. The above gap was
        made with ~ 15 volts input, consuming 6.8 amps on the
        RCB made primary, with an additional amp recorded as
        the stator line going to the top delta connection.
        This is probably half the amount available from the
        alternator for short runs without excessive heating
        occuring on the alternator. Unfortunately during the
        making of this jpeg, the voltage meter across L3C3
        decided to quit working, so I am never buying another
        meter from Radio Shack again without a warrantee, as
        that voltage was well below the specified 750 volt AC
        specs the meter is advertised for. Additionally I know
        when NOT to use a meter by the signs of transients
        that develope on its digital display. The amperage
        reading on L3C3 was immediately disconnected when this
        was noted, but no such problems on the voltage reading
        had been noted. But I guess if ANY problems on a
        branch were noted, ALL of the meters on that branch
        should have been removed, so I will try to remember
        this fact.
        Sincerely HDN



        =====
        Tesla Research Group; Pioneering the Applications of Interphasal Resonances http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/

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