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  • Harvey D Norris
    Mike Furness is a good skeptic and answers posts on VTA list, but I guess he aint got time for this one; guess he did not fall into the trap set for him....
    Message 1 of 3 , Oct 30, 2008
      Mike Furness is a good skeptic and answers posts on VTA list, but I
      guess he aint got time for this one; guess he did not fall into the
      trap set for him....
      http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Sweet-VTA/message/6368
      Power Factor Question for Mike; Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:43 pm

      Hi Mike. I am active in air core coil research, including tesla coils
      and this year I was able to host a small teslathon event near
      Cleveland, Ohio to demonstrate a car alternator powered TC at 456 hz.
      This has led to a host of other projects that have evolved from the
      seeming discoveries in the making of a efficient high frequency air
      core transformer from a mechanical device inputing the power; rather
      then the typical method of obtaining 60 hz power from the electrical
      grid. I wanted to look at the possibility of making a power factor
      correction with my tesla coil primary values in a unique way seemingly
      not practical at 60 hz input schemes. First I wanted to find what
      might be called the operating phase angle of the capacitive load that
      the TC primary uses which is 50 nf, where this reactive load is
      attached to the secondary of a pole pig transformer, and the primary
      is attached to one of three AC phasings @456 hz available from the car
      alternator. Please explain what this might involve and if my analysis
      is correct. First I obtain the values for the reactive power input to
      the primary which is referred to as Volt-Ampere-Reactive or VAR
      readings which indicates the apparent power input. As theory dictates
      the true power expended on a reactive load is ALWAYS less then the
      apparent power inputed, and this is a consequence of the causitive
      voltage and the resultant amperage being out of phase in time, and
      power being voltage times amperage for the multiplications of these
      differences of these quantities in instantaneous time yields a lesser
      quantity compared to the same quantities multiplied in unity which
      would be the case for a zero degree phase angle. A turn on VAR
      measurement is made with the lowest possible reading; whereby because
      of remanent magnetism of the pole face rotor, instantaneous to its
      rotation are obtainable stator voltages and amperages, which in this
      case the primary VAR input to the pole pig transformer primary is
      measured as 2.9 volts enabling 2.24 amps yielding an apparent power
      input of 6.49 watts. The secondary transformer end charges a 50 nf
      cap @ 456 hz to 255 volts as read by rms meter, which means that the
      actual peak voltage is 1.4 times the meter value, or 359 volts. This
      V(peak) quantity is used in calculations for the energy storage of a
      capacitor as noted by .5CV^2.
      This becomes .00323 joules transferred 912 times /sec. or 2.947 watts.
      The power factor would then be the ratio of the true power as made by
      this assumption of the amount of energy transfers occurring per time
      period as a true power measurement divided the VAR apparent power
      which yields a power factor of .45. I began to wonder how this power
      factor no correlates to the formed phase angle. Resorting to textbook
      yields the right triangle relationship whereby the horizontal x axis
      is shown as the true power, and the hypotenus as the apparent power. I
      recall that if the hypotenus of a rt. triangle is 1.4 using 1 unit
      sides, the two formed angles will be 45 degrees. Does this then also
      mean that if the apparent power is 40% greater then the true power the
      phase angle is 45 degrees? In such a case is it safe to conclude the
      inverse relationship that for a reactive load of both inductive
      reactance and equal resistance, the true power would be 71% of the
      apparent power? I'm not quite sure how to apply trigonometry here to
      find the phase angle for the cited case, but I do recall that if the
      resistance and inductive reactance values are known the phase angle
      would be tan^-1(y/x) with x axis as the resistive value. Lastly I
      would pose the question is it safe to conclude that even after a power
      factor correction is made, the true power as determined by this method
      will still be less then the apparent power?

      Sincerely HDN
    • Harvey D Norris
      ... No I guess he took my question as an insult to intelligence? Here is his reply and mine as recorded on VTA list. Harvey, You are intoxicated with the
      Message 2 of 3 , Nov 1, 2008
        --- In teslafy@yahoogroups.com, "Harvey D Norris" <harvich@...> wrote:

        > Mike Furness is a good skeptic and answers posts on VTA list, but I
        > guess he aint got time for this one; guess he did not fall into the
        > trap set for him....
        > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Sweet-VTA/message/6368
        > Power Factor Question for Mike; Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:43 pm
        No I guess he took my question as an insult to intelligence?
        Here is his reply and mine as recorded on VTA list.
        Harvey,

        You are intoxicated with the exuberance of your own verbosity!



        I¢m not sure if your total idiocity is just for me or a permanent
        factor of you life; in either event you are to be pitied!



        You are insulting the credibility of any group, and the people therein.

        Huh? I simply wondered if a power factor angle could be determined by
        noting the input voltage times amperage and then noting the joules of
        energy transferred on the output reactance in comparison. Perhaps I
        did add some unnecessary verbiage concerning my understanding of the
        issue, this was so that if my understanding was in error,it could be
        pointed out in that description. The only thing that might be
        considered idiotic in my book is the question of whether the output
        joules of energy being transferred over time on the secondary end can
        be greater then the apparent power input on the primary side.. I DID
        make a power factor correction on the secondary end and found this
        fiigure to be some 600% greater then the apparent power input, so I
        wondered if this goes against theory.
        I did observe that with this special value of capacity the
        possibility exists that the capacitive reactance load is resonating
        with the inherent inductance of the alternator stator windings when
        driven through the intermediary of the 64/1 voltage rise of the pole
        pig tranformer. It is relatively easy to see this effect without the
        use of a transformer by simply placing much larger values values of
        capacity directly on the stator outputs, in which case the stator
        voltage rises above its open circuit value once the capacitive load is
        attached. Without knowing this the fact that 50 nf driven at 456 hz
        through a 64/1 pole pig transformer then shows a 100/1 voltage rise
        ratio may seem amazing, whereas the other tested capacities did not do
        this. The primary in this case pulls 80% more amperage then what is
        shown if the stator output was simply shorted. It also operates at a
        60% higher output voltage when delivering this superlative amperage
        delivery. It is because of this that when the short is applied across
        the pole pigs secondary end with the 50 nf load still attached less
        current issues across that short then what the capacitive load itself
        consumes. More amazing then this is the fact that the short DOES NOT
        prevent amperage from reaching the load, rather it is about 1/3rd of
        what the short amperage shows. However even with all these subsidiary
        factors the calculations of joule energy transfer across the capacity
        is still only 45% of what it should be if the apparent power input
        equalled the secondary output. When the power factor correction is
        made by putting an equal reactance inductor in parallel with the
        capacity, THEN this ratio rises to over 600%. Perhaps this is all
        unbelievable which is why I intend to make a you tube video showing a
        tesla coil in operation using these parameters. Heres a poor picture
        of the coil in operation, as others may realize taking digital camera
        pictures of a TC is problematic so it is not a good photo.

        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sweet-VTA/files/ALTMAG/DSCN3889.JPG

        I am wondering how many others have been insulted by my previous post,
        if so now is the time to say so! Perhaps only you were insulted Mikey.

        Sincerely HDN
      • Pickur
        cheers harvey most can t comprehend what others do..especially tesla! ok maybe this might be the simple fact/ assume (ass/u/me) i post a paper that obiviously
        Message 3 of 3 , Nov 1, 2008

          cheers harvey most can't comprehend what others do..especially tesla!
          ok maybe this might be the simple fact/
          assume (ass/u/me) i post a paper that obiviously derived from my classmate's notes(shame on me) i copied her/his answers.
          i make a good assumption on what they wrote about (but honestly i have not a clue) what actually anything really means in the answers of the paper...
          then i am asked questions( like harvich did)...and to make sure i am not asked again
          i will call u insult upon accident,,,even tho i find that you was a signifigant true inspirer..
           
           
          then i am pivit...ed   <G>
           
          i remeber quite clear Tesla's controversity....no wonder he never had a wife or significant other than a bird.....
          what a shame...remember that time is near harvey...persons of control do not want free energy or any likes there of
          pay for me to service lines/transformers and my guy's payroll to eat dough balls and drink coffee and then wait till a call comes in i will get there between 9 and 5 pm sometime today i promise...
          so i wait and no one shows up...
          corporate greed..
           
          tim

          --- On Sat, 11/1/08, Harvey D Norris <harvich@...> wrote:
          From: Harvey D Norris <harvich@...>
          Subject: [teslafy] Re: VTA Post
          To: teslafy@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 1:09 PM

          --- In teslafy@yahoogroups .com, "Harvey D Norris" <harvich@... > wrote:

          > Mike Furness is a good skeptic and answers posts on VTA list, but I
          > guess he aint got time for this one; guess he did not fall into the
          > trap set for him....
          > http://tech. groups.yahoo. com/group/ Sweet-VTA/ message/6368
          > Power Factor Question for Mike; Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:43 pm
          No I guess he took my question as an insult to intelligence?
          Here is his reply and mine as recorded on VTA list.
          Harvey,

          You are intoxicated with the exuberance of your own verbosity!

          I¢m not sure if your total idiocity is just for me or a permanent
          factor of you life; in either event you are to be pitied!

          You are insulting the credibility of any group, and the people therein.

          Huh? I simply wondered if a power factor angle could be determined by
          noting the input voltage times amperage and then noting the joules of
          energy transferred on the output reactance in comparison. Perhaps I
          did add some unnecessary verbiage concerning my understanding of the
          issue, this was so that if my understanding was in error,it could be
          pointed out in that description. The only thing that might be
          considered idiotic in my book is the question of whether the output
          joules of energy being transferred over time on the secondary end can
          be greater then the apparent power input on the primary side.. I DID
          make a power factor correction on the secondary end and found this
          fiigure to be some 600% greater then the apparent power input, so I
          wondered if this goes against theory.
          I did observe that with this special value of capacity the
          possibility exists that the capacitive reactance load is resonating
          with the inherent inductance of the alternator stator windings when
          driven through the intermediary of the 64/1 voltage rise of the pole
          pig tranformer. It is relatively easy to see this effect without the
          use of a transformer by simply placing much larger values values of
          capacity directly on the stator outputs, in which case the stator
          voltage rises above its open circuit value once the capacitive load is
          attached. Without knowing this the fact that 50 nf driven at 456 hz
          through a 64/1 pole pig transformer then shows a 100/1 voltage rise
          ratio may seem amazing, whereas the other tested capacities did not do
          this. The primary in this case pulls 80% more amperage then what is
          shown if the stator output was simply shorted. It also operates at a
          60% higher output voltage when delivering this superlative amperage
          delivery. It is because of this that when the short is applied across
          the pole pigs secondary end with the 50 nf load still attached less
          current issues across that short then what the capacitive load itself
          consumes. More amazing then this is the fact that the short DOES NOT
          prevent amperage from reaching the load, rather it is about 1/3rd of
          what the short amperage shows. However even with all these subsidiary
          factors the calculations of joule energy transfer across the capacity
          is still only 45% of what it should be if the apparent power input
          equalled the secondary output. When the power factor correction is
          made by putting an equal reactance inductor in parallel with the
          capacity, THEN this ratio rises to over 600%. Perhaps this is all
          unbelievable which is why I intend to make a you tube video showing a
          tesla coil in operation using these parameters. Heres a poor picture
          of the coil in operation, as others may realize taking digital camera
          pictures of a TC is problematic so it is not a good photo.

          http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Sweet- VTA/files/ ALTMAG/DSCN3889. JPG

          I am wondering how many others have been insulted by my previous post,
          if so now is the time to say so! Perhaps only you were insulted Mikey.

          Sincerely HDN

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