- Mike Furness is a good skeptic and answers posts on VTA list, but I

guess he aint got time for this one; guess he did not fall into the

trap set for him....

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Sweet-VTA/message/6368

Power Factor Question for Mike; Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:43 pm

Hi Mike. I am active in air core coil research, including tesla coils

and this year I was able to host a small teslathon event near

Cleveland, Ohio to demonstrate a car alternator powered TC at 456 hz.

This has led to a host of other projects that have evolved from the

seeming discoveries in the making of a efficient high frequency air

core transformer from a mechanical device inputing the power; rather

then the typical method of obtaining 60 hz power from the electrical

grid. I wanted to look at the possibility of making a power factor

correction with my tesla coil primary values in a unique way seemingly

not practical at 60 hz input schemes. First I wanted to find what

might be called the operating phase angle of the capacitive load that

the TC primary uses which is 50 nf, where this reactive load is

attached to the secondary of a pole pig transformer, and the primary

is attached to one of three AC phasings @456 hz available from the car

alternator. Please explain what this might involve and if my analysis

is correct. First I obtain the values for the reactive power input to

the primary which is referred to as Volt-Ampere-Reactive or VAR

readings which indicates the apparent power input. As theory dictates

the true power expended on a reactive load is ALWAYS less then the

apparent power inputed, and this is a consequence of the causitive

voltage and the resultant amperage being out of phase in time, and

power being voltage times amperage for the multiplications of these

differences of these quantities in instantaneous time yields a lesser

quantity compared to the same quantities multiplied in unity which

would be the case for a zero degree phase angle. A turn on VAR

measurement is made with the lowest possible reading; whereby because

of remanent magnetism of the pole face rotor, instantaneous to its

rotation are obtainable stator voltages and amperages, which in this

case the primary VAR input to the pole pig transformer primary is

measured as 2.9 volts enabling 2.24 amps yielding an apparent power

input of 6.49 watts. The secondary transformer end charges a 50 nf

cap @ 456 hz to 255 volts as read by rms meter, which means that the

actual peak voltage is 1.4 times the meter value, or 359 volts. This

V(peak) quantity is used in calculations for the energy storage of a

capacitor as noted by .5CV^2.

This becomes .00323 joules transferred 912 times /sec. or 2.947 watts.

The power factor would then be the ratio of the true power as made by

this assumption of the amount of energy transfers occurring per time

period as a true power measurement divided the VAR apparent power

which yields a power factor of .45. I began to wonder how this power

factor no correlates to the formed phase angle. Resorting to textbook

yields the right triangle relationship whereby the horizontal x axis

is shown as the true power, and the hypotenus as the apparent power. I

recall that if the hypotenus of a rt. triangle is 1.4 using 1 unit

sides, the two formed angles will be 45 degrees. Does this then also

mean that if the apparent power is 40% greater then the true power the

phase angle is 45 degrees? In such a case is it safe to conclude the

inverse relationship that for a reactive load of both inductive

reactance and equal resistance, the true power would be 71% of the

apparent power? I'm not quite sure how to apply trigonometry here to

find the phase angle for the cited case, but I do recall that if the

resistance and inductive reactance values are known the phase angle

would be tan^-1(y/x) with x axis as the resistive value. Lastly I

would pose the question is it safe to conclude that even after a power

factor correction is made, the true power as determined by this method

will still be less then the apparent power?

Sincerely HDN - --- In teslafy@yahoogroups.com, "Harvey D Norris" <harvich@...> wrote:

> Mike Furness is a good skeptic and answers posts on VTA list, but I

No I guess he took my question as an insult to intelligence?

> guess he aint got time for this one; guess he did not fall into the

> trap set for him....

> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Sweet-VTA/message/6368

> Power Factor Question for Mike; Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:43 pm

Here is his reply and mine as recorded on VTA list.

Harvey,

You are intoxicated with the exuberance of your own verbosity!

I¢m not sure if your total idiocity is just for me or a permanent

factor of you life; in either event you are to be pitied!

You are insulting the credibility of any group, and the people therein.

Huh? I simply wondered if a power factor angle could be determined by

noting the input voltage times amperage and then noting the joules of

energy transferred on the output reactance in comparison. Perhaps I

did add some unnecessary verbiage concerning my understanding of the

issue, this was so that if my understanding was in error,it could be

pointed out in that description. The only thing that might be

considered idiotic in my book is the question of whether the output

joules of energy being transferred over time on the secondary end can

be greater then the apparent power input on the primary side.. I DID

make a power factor correction on the secondary end and found this

fiigure to be some 600% greater then the apparent power input, so I

wondered if this goes against theory.

I did observe that with this special value of capacity the

possibility exists that the capacitive reactance load is resonating

with the inherent inductance of the alternator stator windings when

driven through the intermediary of the 64/1 voltage rise of the pole

pig tranformer. It is relatively easy to see this effect without the

use of a transformer by simply placing much larger values values of

capacity directly on the stator outputs, in which case the stator

voltage rises above its open circuit value once the capacitive load is

attached. Without knowing this the fact that 50 nf driven at 456 hz

through a 64/1 pole pig transformer then shows a 100/1 voltage rise

ratio may seem amazing, whereas the other tested capacities did not do

this. The primary in this case pulls 80% more amperage then what is

shown if the stator output was simply shorted. It also operates at a

60% higher output voltage when delivering this superlative amperage

delivery. It is because of this that when the short is applied across

the pole pigs secondary end with the 50 nf load still attached less

current issues across that short then what the capacitive load itself

consumes. More amazing then this is the fact that the short DOES NOT

prevent amperage from reaching the load, rather it is about 1/3rd of

what the short amperage shows. However even with all these subsidiary

factors the calculations of joule energy transfer across the capacity

is still only 45% of what it should be if the apparent power input

equalled the secondary output. When the power factor correction is

made by putting an equal reactance inductor in parallel with the

capacity, THEN this ratio rises to over 600%. Perhaps this is all

unbelievable which is why I intend to make a you tube video showing a

tesla coil in operation using these parameters. Heres a poor picture

of the coil in operation, as others may realize taking digital camera

pictures of a TC is problematic so it is not a good photo.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sweet-VTA/files/ALTMAG/DSCN3889.JPG

I am wondering how many others have been insulted by my previous post,

if so now is the time to say so! Perhaps only you were insulted Mikey.

Sincerely HDN

cheers harvey most can't comprehend what others do..especially tesla!ok maybe this might be the simple fact/assume (ass/u/me) i post a paper that obiviously derived from my classmate's notes(shame on me) i copied her/his answers.i make a good assumption on what they wrote about (but honestly i have not a clue) what actually anything really means in the answers of the paper...then i am asked questions( like harvich did)...and to make sure i am not asked againi will call u insult upon accident,,,even tho i find that you was a signifigant true inspirer..then i am pivit...ed <G>i remeber quite clear Tesla's controversity....no wonder he never had a wife or significant other than a bird.....what a shame...remember that time is near harvey...persons of control do not want free energy or any likes there ofpay for me to service lines/transformers and my guy's payroll to eat dough balls and drink coffee and then wait till a call comes in i will get there between 9 and 5 pm sometime today i promise...so i wait and no one shows up...corporate greed..tim--- On

**Sat, 11/1/08, Harvey D Norris**wrote:*<harvich@...>*From: Harvey D Norris <harvich@...>

Subject: [teslafy] Re: VTA Post

To: teslafy@yahoogroups.com

Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 1:09 PM--- In teslafy@yahoogroups .com, "Harvey D Norris" <harvich@... > wrote:

> Mike Furness is a good skeptic and answers posts on VTA list, but I

> guess he aint got time for this one; guess he did not fall into the

> trap set for him....

> http://tech. groups.yahoo. com/group/ Sweet-VTA/ message/6368

> Power Factor Question for Mike; Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:43 pm

No I guess he took my question as an insult to intelligence?

Here is his reply and mine as recorded on VTA list.

Harvey,

You are intoxicated with the exuberance of your own verbosity!

I¢m not sure if your total idiocity is just for me or a permanent

factor of you life; in either event you are to be pitied!

You are insulting the credibility of any group, and the people therein.

Huh? I simply wondered if a power factor angle could be determined by

noting the input voltage times amperage and then noting the joules of

energy transferred on the output reactance in comparison. Perhaps I

did add some unnecessary verbiage concerning my understanding of the

issue, this was so that if my understanding was in error,it could be

pointed out in that description. The only thing that might be

considered idiotic in my book is the question of whether the output

joules of energy being transferred over time on the secondary end can

be greater then the apparent power input on the primary side.. I DID

make a power factor correction on the secondary end and found this

fiigure to be some 600% greater then the apparent power input, so I

wondered if this goes against theory.

I did observe that with this special value of capacity the

possibility exists that the capacitive reactance load is resonating

with the inherent inductance of the alternator stator windings when

driven through the intermediary of the 64/1 voltage rise of the pole

pig tranformer. It is relatively easy to see this effect without the

use of a transformer by simply placing much larger values values of

capacity directly on the stator outputs, in which case the stator

voltage rises above its open circuit value once the capacitive load is

attached. Without knowing this the fact that 50 nf driven at 456 hz

through a 64/1 pole pig transformer then shows a 100/1 voltage rise

ratio may seem amazing, whereas the other tested capacities did not do

this. The primary in this case pulls 80% more amperage then what is

shown if the stator output was simply shorted. It also operates at a

60% higher output voltage when delivering this superlative amperage

delivery. It is because of this that when the short is applied across

the pole pigs secondary end with the 50 nf load still attached less

current issues across that short then what the capacitive load itself

consumes. More amazing then this is the fact that the short DOES NOT

prevent amperage from reaching the load, rather it is about 1/3rd of

what the short amperage shows. However even with all these subsidiary

factors the calculations of joule energy transfer across the capacity

is still only 45% of what it should be if the apparent power input

equalled the secondary output. When the power factor correction is

made by putting an equal reactance inductor in parallel with the

capacity, THEN this ratio rises to over 600%. Perhaps this is all

unbelievable which is why I intend to make a you tube video showing a

tesla coil in operation using these parameters. Heres a poor picture

of the coil in operation, as others may realize taking digital camera

pictures of a TC is problematic so it is not a good photo.

http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Sweet- VTA/files/ ALTMAG/DSCN3889. JPG

I am wondering how many others have been insulted by my previous post,

if so now is the time to say so! Perhaps only you were insulted Mikey.

Sincerely HDN