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Re: [teslafy] Easy way to find core saturation point

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  • Harvey Norris
    ... Daka. I hope the group will find this useful/ For years I experimented with releasing power of Sf Fe magnet wafers. The ending of that was passing a
    Message 1 of 4 , Dec 4, 2004
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      --- Jerko Golubovic <jerko_golubovic@...> wrote:

      > the core begins to take place. The core begins to
      > act
      > as if no iron were present in its core. Because the
      > transformer primary looses its effective impedance,
      > where the presence of iron in the core causes that
      > impedance effect; beyond that critical voltage input
      > point, the primary amperage begins to skyrocket,
      > which
      > if left unchecked will result in insulation meltdown
      > of the primary. Thus we can burn up a transformer,
      > Hi!
      > I will show you very simple method of finding core
      > saturation point. I came on idea during my lab
      > session with transformers and was classified as
      > "nice" in our HAM club (once members figured out how
      > simple it is).
      > You need:
      > some wire (diameter not critical)
      > variable voltage source (variac)
      > voltmeter
      > Procedure:
      > Wind some round number of turns in biffilar way
      > on core. Number of turns is best to be around "rule
      > of thumb" formula for calculating transformers (in
      > order to get sufficient impedance while still having
      > amper-turns to saturate core) unless you want to
      > spend too much power and heat wire
      > Connect primary to variac
      > Connect bottom of primary with bottom of
      > secondary
      > Between top of primary and top of secondary place
      > your voltmeter
      > Start rising voltage slowly. As long as you are not
      > in core saturation, secondary voltage is following
      > primary. Instrument will show small voltage - this
      > represents (roughly) losses into transformer - so
      > called "Kapp triangle".
      > When you reach saturation point - secondary voltage
      > will not follow primary anymore and difference will
      > rise. Congratulations - you found saturation point!
      > Now just measure voltage on variac. Divide number of
      > turns with voltage and you immediately get numbers
      > of turns per volt you can maximally apply to
      > selected core in question.
      > Of course - do not ride till saturation point in
      > practical case; leave some gaps. (unless you want to
      > build scalar wave detector which needs saturation
      > point - with this one you can see if your magnet is
      > strong enough to keep your core in non-linear
      > region)
      > Those who attempt to "do it yourself" audio output
      > transformers for valve amplifiers will also find
      > this useful - you can without any special equipement
      > (like scopes) find in which part your transformer is
      > most linear and - what is more important - did you
      > sized your airgap in the core (used on DC-biased
      > applications in SE amplifiers) properly or you need
      > adjustements.
      > If you plot this curve - it will be proportional to
      > first magnetisation curve (so you can see it).
      > Not very accurate - but extremely useful in
      > practice.
      > If you want to see hysteresis then you need scope
      > and integrator (since hysteresis curve represent
      > losses as area - it is integral and therefore you
      > need integrator device - prefferably simple one
      > constructed with opamp - see some books for
      > schematics).
      > You connect primary to AC voltage (mains over variac
      > or sinewawe generator). You connect X of the scope
      > into this. This should be H (magnetomotive force).
      > Then you connect integrator on secondary and output
      > of integrator to Y. This should be B (magnetic
      > flux).
      > When you callibrate properly - nice hysteresis will
      > appear on screen. You can read:
      > core losses (area)
      > remanent magnetism (where curve cuts Y axis)
      > find saturation point
      > If using sinewave generator - try to increase
      > frequency and see what will happen.
      > I am not 100% sure if X and Y should be connected
      > this way (long time passed) - if you get rotated
      > image - simply reverse them.
      > For VTA group: try to experiment with this setup
      > when it is placed in permanent magnetic field.
      > I hope you will find this useful.
      > Jerko.
      Daka. I hope the group will find this useful/
      For years I experimented with releasing power of Sf Fe
      magnet wafers. The ending of that was passing a
      vibration of one magnet to another through space
      alone. The ending magnet(S) vibrates and can be felt
      by hand. The ending magnet can have an inductor placed
      over it, and the inductor registers that vibration,
      via scoping of that vibration. It is literally a
      magnetic vibration passed through space. The closest
      idea of Sweets idea is conveyance of magnetic
      vibrations, but I cant make it continuous, when the
      source shuts down, so does the vibration. I have never
      found a vibration that acts otherwise.

      Pray tell me and the audience where such an example
      exists! As usually found these things are found by
      accidental observations. I was treating a patient via
      neon treatment al la Priore method where the ending
      body recieves the polar reception of the ending neon
      discharge as a polar capacity. I had recomended to him
      to place the neon near the actual aluminum foil
      connection against his back, which was filled with
      boils. The small neon on that connection then began to
      give an entirely different glow, a pale discharge vs
      the usual orange glow. This was the accidental
      introduction of an imperfect electrical connection,
      which manifested itself as a small air gap, later to
      make a high freq. signal riding on th 60 hz signal
      refined to make that a continuous signal to the
      patient. This was making a better treatment to the
      patient because the arc gap in the series circuit
      changed the 60 hz to many high freq signals riding on
      that 60 hz.
      It is hard for many folks to realize what I am
      talking about, so i have supplied some pictures to VTA
      list, but perhaps not enough.
      Binary Res/ Single Phase/ Neon to Magnet over C(s)

      What is going on there is a short path to a high
      voltage expression of a C value in series with an L
      value. L and C are in resonance, from an alternator,
      but an alternate pathway is made so that the high
      voltage has another pathway directly through the SrFe
      magnet wafer, pictured by the yellow wire touching the
      top of the magnet , by its own magnetism. Also on the
      picture are white an yellow wires that go downward
      that lead to aluminum foil connections in which
      plexiglass insulation are between those foils, and
      that makes the C value for the LC 480 hz resonance. An
      alternative (short) pathway is made on the C value's
      resonant voltage rise, so that it can light a neon,
      then travel through the magnet via the top yellow
      wire, and then travel through the remaining plexiglass
      top insulator plate via dielectric conduction
      currents. Then a coil placed upon the top of this
      magnet can scope record the vibrations imposed upon
      that ferrite magnet for the simple fact that electric
      currents have been passed through the north and south
      poles of that magnet. The magnet has been vibrated,
      and the coil above that magnet scope records that
      vibration. Then one sees a saturation point of the
      magnet itself, the magnet will not release more of a
      voltage signal to the scope, in accordance to the
      voltage imposed upon it by the high voltage neon
      exposure of its path, and that signal appears as a
      sine wave, not a double sine wave with opposite
      signatures. Now we shut the energizing field of the
      alternator down, so that practically no action occurs.
      The neon does not light, yet the magnet pathway still
      exists as a short to the possible resonant voltage
      rise. Yet at the same time we see that the scope
      signal has now become very active showing much
      activity from the magnet...
      Parametric Magnet Scoping/ .2 volts@ 2 us/div

      There is a great difference between a "Forced"
      vibration, and a free vibration, where the free
      vibration itself establishes the same idea as a
      saturation point. Something can only be vibrated so
      high, and after that no further input of energy can
      make it vibrate better. The appearance of double sine
      waves has nothing to do with scalar effects either, it
      is an idiosynchrosy of recording multiple rf bursts
      per source freq on the monitored high frequency. Look
      at the thicker white signals/ they are out of phase
      with the main ones.ect... In summo I can barely scrape
      the bottom of things here, so I scrape-ich.

      That exposed magnet in this example vibrates because
      it sits on a high voltage electric field, and because
      a mechanism has been introduced to pass currents
      through its poles. Yet more spectacular examples then
      this exist. A magnet such as ferrite can be made to
      vibrate through similar examples, and magnets around
      it can be made to vibrate; through the medium of space
      alone! A magnet can be made to vibrate, and pass its
      vibration through space itself. Take my word for that
      as it has already been accomplished many years ago.
      Guess I'll load a pic to VTA to show that condition
      also, where it was found that Priore neon treatment
      involving arc gap reflected back to the magnet, in
      such a way to cause that magnet to vibrate...

      Tesla Research Group; Pioneering the Applications of Interphasal Resonances http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/
    • Harvey D Norris
      Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 To: Sweet-VTA@yahoogroups.com ... Hi Mike. Thanx for your very informed comments on transformers. I thought the following would be of
      Message 2 of 4 , Dec 4, 2004
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        Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004
        To: Sweet-VTA@yahoogroups.com

        --- Mike <mikefurness2002@...> wrote:

        > Perhaps I should add a 'postscript' which was why I
        > joined this group.
        > Common Knowledge, and my training, told me that, as
        > even stated in my
        > previous note, LINES OF CHANGING FLUX generate
        > voltage when cutting
        > conductors!
        > Later we are told that 'in a perfect transformer'
        > all the flux is contained
        > in the core! So what cuts the wire, certainly NOT
        > flux!!!!!
        > I think the answer to all our endeavours lies in
        > this little understood
        > 'IGNORED' effect.
        > Has been called 'MAGNETIC 'A' VECTOR'
        > Mike.
        Hi Mike. Thanx for your very informed comments on
        transformers. I thought the following would be of
        interest concerning the A field.
        Does the ferromagnetic transformer show the
        Aharonov-Bohm effect? (Fri, 27 Feb 2004)

        Bill Beauty has a page on the A vector field effect,
        which to me now has ceased to be something so exotic
        or misunderstandable. Basically the issue seems to be
        that a closed loop doesnt need to have a movement of
        field lines across its windings for it to contain
        induced voltage. The secondary closed loop containing
        magnetic flux changing in time can still have an
        induced voltage on it by the A field vector.

        Heres a reply on the subject to freenrg list.
        This E-mail is regarding Bill Beaty's "Right Angle

        I find some misconceptions at this site, namely

        FIG. 2 A toroidial inductor is interesting because the
        induced magnetic field remains hidden within the iron
        core. If the coil was wrapped around the entire core
        rather than in one spot as shown, then the magnetic
        field would exist only within the iron core. In both
        cases the magnetic field will exist entirely inside
        the core. It is only when the amp-turns of the
        windings exceed the transformer ratings, ie
        saturation, that the magnetic field lines will start
        to emerge in space outside the core. This in turn
        will cause the core to act with less impedance, hence
        a non linear rise of input amperage vs voltage input
        will occur after a certain voltage level is attained.
        This can actually happen after a certain point of
        voltage input and cause a "runaway amperage " level to
        develope, and meltdown of insulation wires may occur.
        At full saturation the iron core is entirely
        ineffective to produce the impedance to the source,
        and the core acts as if it were replaced by air.
        Running a 120 volt rated Neon Sign Transformer at 140
        volts and beyond will start to cause these saturation
        effects, and you will quickly destroy the transformer
        insulation on the windings because of the excessive
        currents that develope from saturation.

        FIG. 3 Even if the coil of wire does not touch the
        core, it still induces a strong magnetic field inside
        the core. The gap between the coil and the iron ring
        can be very large, yet this does not reduce the
        strength of the field within the core.[Note; this is
        where I have a disagreement, see my concluding
        comments on flux density vs cross sectional area
        enclosed by loop] The mmf on the
        core should be reduced by having a larger volume
        inside the exciting windings.

        I am not exactly sure about these definitions, but if
        the inside volume area of the exciting windings is
        doubled, I would venture to say that the mmf on the
        core is halved, and vice versa.

        FIG. 4 Although the magnetic field stays inside,
        something else does come out of the core. The changing
        field within the core produces a field of Vector
        Potential which surrounds the core. This field is
        commonly called the "A-field."

        Bearden often notes things about this Aharonov-Bohm
        effect which was noted in the late fifties. In 1959
        Aharonov and Bohm published a fundamental paper in
        Physical Review which pointed out the QM implications
        of potentials as the real entities, while force fields
        were the real effects. Soon after the publication of
        the Aharonov-Bohm effect. experiments showed that, if
        the magnetic field is trapped inside a long solenoid ,
        a phase shift still is induced in the two slit
        electron experiment, even though classically, no
        contact of the enclosed magnetic field and the moving
        electrons occurs. These are Beardens comments, which I
        dont quite exactly understand, which perhaps others
        can elaborate on. I do think I understand the premise
        in far simpler words. The A field is perpendicular to
        the B field. We have two laws to understand the same
        phenomenon. The first law is the more familiar one
        which states that when a magnetic field line crosses
        an orthogonal conductive wire by moving through space
        at right angles to that wire, such as occurs when we
        rotate a magnet pole at right angle to the wire, a
        voltage is induced in that wire that can cause
        electron movement in that wire as a consequence of the
        magnetic lines of force transversing the wire at right
        angles. The second interpretation to me merely
        restates the A-B effect WHERE NO MAGNETIC FIELD
        CROSSES THE WIRE. Here the induced voltage is
        dependent on the enclosed flux (density) change
        encompassed on the interior volume area of the loops
        containing that flux change. Hence for the
        ferromagnetic transformer, the induced voltages and
        currents on the secondary already show this AB
        principle, since the magnetic field lines are confined
        to the core, and do not intersect the secondary
        windings, but those windings do recieve emf acording
        to delta B/ cross sectional area of flux change.(
        which gives the flux density) If we increase that
        cross sectional area, ie , increasing the distance of
        the transformer windings from the core, this of course
        also changes the flux density in the area enclosed by
        the loops, since the flux density itself is the amount
        of flux divided by the cross sectional area
        encompassed by the loops. Less flux density/cross
        sectional area of enclosed loops must then translate
        to a smaller induced emf. In summo something very
        exotic or mysterious is seemingly made that way by
        ASSUMING that the transformer example implies a wire
        crossing magnetic lines of force, which in actuality
        is only a convenient assumption that never actually
        occured. Sincerely HDN

        (Now some further comments on your interesting post

        > When you wind a secondary, & draw power, the
        > secondary flux opposes the
        > primary, the flux in the transformer core tries to
        > drop, causing reflected
        > impedance, & primary current increases to maintain
        > the 'status quo', so the
        > core flux remains constant. There are many other
        > 'peripherial'
        > considerations to consider, but minor to main
        > diccussion.
        If the core flux is dependent on the amp-turns of the
        primary input, and the amount of amps on those turns
        increases as we draw power, wouldn't the increase of
        the mmf by the increased amp-turns also imply an
        increased core flux, and not a constant value as you
        seem to be implying here?
        > When you get to 'serious power' levels, the larger
        > core can give a larger
        > core factor, so less turns for same inductance, more
        > area for cooling, &
        > less turns on secondary. From memory only, as my
        > work centres on high
        > frequency devices, a small 1 - 5 VA transformer may
        > have 10 turns per input
        > volt, and a large utility one maybe 2 turns per volt
        > or less, hence the
        > cooling fins you see on them! On 'switchmode'
        > devices,
        If I understand correctly this would describe the new
        solid state neon sign transformers that output some
        20,000 hz. I am eager to learn about these devices, so
        if you have any corresponding URL's that might
        increase my knowledge in this area, they would be
        appreciated. Wouldnt we have to use a special ferrite
        core for those devices, as silicone iron starts
        becoming innefective around 500 hz?

        with their
        > frequencies of maybe 10 thousand times higher
        > frequency, 4 - 20 volts per
        > turn is achievable, thus allowing a (UK) 400v
        > rectified input, to feed a
        > transformer with only 40 turns on the primary & 1
        > (one) turn only on the
        > secondary for 10 volts out! (Not quite that simple,
        > but sufficient for
        > example).
        > I have also done considerable work on 'automotive'
        > alternators, They all
        > require a 'controllable' field, due to speed & load
        > changes, which is
        > derived from output windings. Usually a bleed from
        > battery to energise, but
        > there are some (Motorola, Prestolite) which have a
        > small embedded magnetism
        > to make them 'self starting'
        Seven of Nine Reasons for Gyroscopic Conclusions
        jlnlabs@yahoogroups.com- Sat, 22 May 2004
        Think of a ferromagnetic metal as a carrier of
        uncohered electron spins. If the spins are random in
        three dimensions no magnetism is observed. If they are
        cohered in that the spins lie predominantly all in one
        plane, all in the same direction of spin, then we see
        magnetism. Think of these orbiting electron orbits as
        molecular gyroscopes. That means when we spin the
        metal, a gyroscopic reaction occurs on the
        "incorrectly" oriented spins, that tends to "push" the
        incorrect spins at an angle that forces a precession
        so that these spins all become aligned, exactly as a
        collection of randomly oriented gyroscopes on a
        spinning disc would behave. Thus macroscopic metallic
        spin itself creates a small amount of magnetism, but
        not quite the amount of magnetism that would be
        released if the metal were made into an electromagnet.
        The difference between rotational magnetism and
        electromagnetism can be detected with alternator
        experiments when we spin the field without it being
        energized. A certain amount of rotational saturation
        exists, and if the electromagnetism effect has not
        surpassed that value, it adds very little to the field
        magnetism already present. Following is a past posting
        concerning this matter...
        Sat Apr 17, 2004 11:22 pm
        Subject: Dispelling the Remanent Magnetism of Field
        Rotor Theory

        Well strictly speaking a ferromagnetic steel probably
        does generate magnetism by spin alone, which is even
        justified by considering that a gyroscopic reaction to
        electron spin orbits would justify this appearance. In
        any case the arguments used to say that remanent
        magnetism of a alternator field rotor are responsible
        for the currents generated by the unenergized field of
        a spinning alternator: those arguments would seem to
        be like the janitor sweeping the discordant elements
        under the rug. Essentially a small unknown phenomenon
        doesnt EXACTLY produce ratios of electrical action
        comparable to the real operation of the device, and
        then we are dealing in potential unknowns, as to how
        much electrical power can be obtained by mettallic
        spin alone? The electrical power we obtain in that
        circumstance might be highly efficient vs the motive
        amount of input, and truly here we are bordering on
        DePalma ideas himself, which to say the least was
        controversial some years ago. In any case using the 3
        phase air core principles; and appropriate resonances
        attached to the 3 phased inputs I was able to energize
        a 20 inch neon tube on one ended disharge which
        requires 500-600 volts, and this was made from
        ferromagnetic spin of a 480 hz alternator with
        unenergized field alone. Here is a sampling of

        1) Once the diodes from a car alternator are removed,
        and a three phase AC conversion of outputs made for
        pure form of conversion of its motional spin emf of
        the rotor to electrical energy without that DC
        conversion, a remarkable increase of output occurs.

        2) If we then add resonances as a filter to that
        output, and THEN rectify that output interphasingly, I
        was able to produce motion on a small 9 volt motor,
        which means motion is literally transfered through
        wires by spin, with parametric principles. The
        ordinary (unergized field)car alternator (with
        internal diodes outputing DC) of course should not
        accomplish that delivery as its output voltage is
        considerably reduced.

        3) There is a "correct direction" for inputing DC
        current to the field. The wrong direction will result
        in less stator output given the amount of field

        4) Remarkably The actual DC resistance of the field is
        affected in a very non-linear manner prior to the
        point where electromagnetism of the field rotor
        exceeds the pre-existant rotational magnetism.
        Initially the field appears as a much higher DC
        resistance than is actually measured without motion of
        the field rotor taking place.

        5) Rotational field "Saturation" is a consequence of
        the above observation, where little stator increase
        of output from alternator is made until where the
        elecrtromagnetic field effects surpass the rotational.

        6) DC feedback of parametic stator effects to field to
        increase that pre-existant parametric output were once
        thought impossible by this researcher, until later
        trials many years later showed that in some
        circumstances , a delayed reaction occurs, but once it
        occurs a magnetic chain reaction occurs in the field,
        instantly becoming magnetised to its highest
        saturation point, and causing overload on the
        alternator, all accomplished through ferromagnetic
        spin alone. This Demon of a Beast has never been tamed
        by this observer, [Post note; This has now been
        controlled via use of a water cell inserted into
        alternator resonant circuit to control the voltage on
        the field feedback loop] but it should be possible
        zener diodes. This then could be a self energized
        field, made possible by the electrical energy of spin
        alone, but controlled in such a manner that the
        excessive feedback of that loop does not occur.

        7) 7 easy reasons for dispelling the remanent
        magnetization of field rotor myth. Once the field is
        ACTUALLY energized, and then turned off, we see an
        increase of parametric readings. THAT is that totality
        of remanent magnetisation effect, which of course is
        lost after a certain time after motion of the field
        rotor has ceased. It is ONLY that amount of increase
        that should be attributed to remanent magnetism of the
        field pole faces, and of course the ordinary
        parametric levels of operation are then seen when that
        remanent magnetism ceases to be present...


        Again another post on this matter;
        Several years ago I started working with
        the concept of a self energized field for an
        alternator. By taking one of the three phases of AC
        output, and rectifying it back to DC current for the
        field, which is a rotating electromagnet, a runaway
        magnetic chain reaction occurs, causing the alternator
        to go into overload. This process can start from an
        unenergized field, because of remanent magnetization
        of the field rotor, because the assembly actually also
        acts as a parametric generator,(Delta L on the stator
        windings over time acts when the pole faces rotate
        inside the stator core, causing a changing inductance
        to be recorded on the stator windings, which is the
        principle of a parametric oscillator), and thirdly due
        to the fact that metallic rotation itself of a
        ferromagnetic metal causes a gyroscopic reaction of
        the free unpaired electron spins in the electron cloud
        of the metal, with the macroscopic result that
        metallic spin in of itself also causes a weak magnetic
        field to be exhibited. This is also prooved by the
        fact that there is a different efficiency of result in
        the field's rotating electromagnet dependent on which
        polarity we input DC amperage through the field. If
        the DC field amperage creates a magnetic field in the
        same direction as what the spin itself establishes,
        that is the CORRECT polarity to use in establishing
        the field, and if it is in the opposite direction, it
        must fight the natural tendency of the magnetic field
        that itself is estqablished by spin, hence the wrong
        direction of DC amperage input means less efficiency
        of the alternator per input of the DC fields amperage.
        Going even further with DC field studies, it is found
        that both BACK emf effects exist; when the fields
        amperage creates a magnetic field below that of the
        pre-existant magnetic field made by rotation, and even
        more importantly FORWARD emf effects can be shown,
        where the field starts loosing resistance after
        exceeding the rotational pre-existant magnetic field
        of the field rotor. This also is easily proovable,
        where the DC resistance of my field rotor is 20 ohms
        when not moving, some 100 ohms at the lowest levels of
        amperage introduction to the field after rotational
        movement is established, and finally it becomes around
        5 ohms at the point of action I use in experiments.

        > You stated that you couldn't exceed 40 volts?
        No, what I meant here was that I wouldnt want to
        operate past 40 volts for prolonged time periods
        because of excessive stator core heating. Actually the
        alternator I have used in experiments is a Delco Remy
        model that is not a large amperage output model. About
        50 or 60 volts output I start hearing significant
        bearing knocking noise so I dont press the issue and
        operate in sensible power output ranges.
        > probably because the unit
        > wasn't going fast enough, a 12 volt bobbin probably
        > saturates at about 18
        > volts, so more core current just causes rapid
        > heating.Voltage out (assuming
        > constant energisation) is directly proportional to
        > speed, rate of change of
        > flux,(as in tacho- generator) so much more voltage
        > is available if you run
        > the device faster.
        Yes my pole face field rotor has 7 pole faces, where I
        have first tested at 190 hz, and now at a medium rpm
        range that outputs 480 hz. Since frequency may also
        be an issue with ferromagnetic stator saturation I
        wish to keep things below 500 hz, as I have taken out
        the diodes to explore the effects of attaching
        resonant circuits to the AC output. I have also found
        that attached transformers seem to have a non-linear
        rise of impedance in accordance with increasing the
        frequency input. I would think that operating near 500
        hz would be operating near the top limit for
        ferromagnetic transformers. These transformers
        sometimes also bleed off a lower harmonic into the
        sound spectrum producing a whine noise that resembles
        a high pitched musical note. Plexiglass plate
        capacitors used in 480 hz high voltage resonances
        produce this musical note whine at a very high volume.
        > As a precursor to designing a high speed
        > generating set, I did some
        > experimenting with a prestolite 24 volt 175 amp
        > truck alternator. The core
        > was energised from a seperate 24 volt constant
        > supply, rectifiers were
        > changed for high voltage 800V PIV devices & unit was
        > run into a very large
        > water cooled variable resistance nerwork.
        > The speed at which the rotor started to 'grow' was
        > at 24,000 RPM, off load
        > voltage was about 310 volts,(declining rapidly with
        > load), maximum
        > continuous power out, 26KW
        Hmm, I am jealous now, I need to set up a alternator
        that has more guts and power, your work sounds
        > An interesting discovery was that (as per
        > transformer) when the 'ampere
        > turns' in the stator equalled the ampere turns in
        > the core, (at 175 amps)
        > the unit would give no more, even into a short
        > circuit load, & therefore
        > unloaded the prime mover & didn't overheat. maximum
        > power out was obtained
        > by suitable load matching.
        This sounds somewhat interesting because when I
        arranged things according to the principle of maximum
        energy transfer and resonated those resistances made
        into the form of a spiral, I was also able to output
        larger amperages without any significant stator
        heating occuring. It is only when I put interphasal
        loads on the resonance's voltage rises that
        significant stator heating then is observed. I called
        the spirals METR components, {Maximum Energy Transfer
        Resonances}. What seems to go beyond the established
        electrical theory is that they obey the aspect that
        the voltage drop in comparison to open circuit voltage
        will be about 50%, but acoording to theory there is
        also supposed to be a corresponding 50% drop of
        amperage compared to the value obtained when shorting
        out the outputs. Instead these resonances obtain the
        same value of amperage that will be found when the
        outputs are instead shorted. The METR components were
        made by making R(load) ~ = to R(int) which was found
        by noting what voltage appeared across the outputs
        when shorted, and the dividing the obtained amperage
        by the obtained voltage, giving a value near a half
        ohm for this particular Delco Remy alternator.
        Everything had to be duplicated for all three phases,
        or else different values for R(int) were obtained. A
        short on two phases produces more current on the
        phases then for the case when all three phases were
        > It was decided that this arrangement would not be
        > ideal, so I called in
        > outside help to design a 90,000RPM direct drive
        > alternator (genset to be
        > powered initially with Russian cruise missile
        > engine, 50KW at 90,000RPM)
        > Permanent magnet, no brushes at that speed, Output
        > voltage 210 off load & 90
        > volts full load, boost transistor to take this to
        > the 800v required for PWM
        > line invertor.
        Whew how in the hell can bearings stand such an
        excessive rpm! I also have a set of paired bus
        alternators that I think are known as reluctance
        alternators. Those alternators have a cup shaped field
        that does not revolve! Instead a tight clearance is
        involved where a set of rotating pole faces rotate
        around this metallic cup. The pole faces "grab" the
        fields magnetism by being a path of least reluctance.
        Since the field itself does not rotate, there are no
        brushes or slip rings in that model.
        > Whole device intended to weigh 40KG (90 pounds) &
        > highly portable. Still
        > have some very large transistors laying around.
        Each of the bus alternators also probably weigh at
        least 90 lbs also. They even have inputs for oil
        cooling like a transmission! These are some monster
        machines that need a 240 volt AC motor to turn the
        pair which outputs 360 hz.! The stator windings are
        made from varnished thick copper bus bar type windings
        intersecting segments of laminated silicone iron. The
        pole faces rotate just underneath this assembly. Only
        59 stator winds are around the circle, making for 18
        winds per phase. I have not turned this machine on for
        several years, as the smaller alternator provides for
        a convenient tool for researching effects of
        resonance, and also I dont have 240 VAC in the garage
        and must use a long extension cord taken from the air
        conditioning 240 outlet. Since these alternators are
        paired by a variable connection pulley, this gives the
        option of making a special 6 phase system, where any
        desired phase angle between the two 3 phase systems
        can be procured. Spent a lot of money on that project!
        The AC phases are also isolated, meaning that they can
        be outputed in either delta or wye, or in perfect
        > Sorry to have wandered so far 'off topic' thought
        > it might have some
        > general interest.
        Enjoyed the interchange of information... Thanks, it
        wasnt off topic for me...HDN
        > Mike.
        > Mike. J. Furness.
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