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Repost from VTA/480 hz alternator ferrite conductions

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  • harvich
    Some of this info is highly repetitive, but I am gathering up some other postings to other lists to be archived at TRG. In the future I will simply note the
    Message 1 of 1 , Jan 21 8:11 AM
      Some of this info is highly repetitive, but I am gathering up some
      other postings to other lists to be archived at TRG. In the future I
      will simply note the list, and the title reply, and make any comments
      further on the matter if necessary.

      Thu, 27 Dec 2001 04:08:24 -0800 (PST)

      From: "harvey norris" <harvich@...>
      Subject: 480 hz alternator ferrite conductions
      To: sweet-vta@yahoogroups.com

      Mag Caps in series via bulbs

      This actually shows a sort of skin effect where only
      one terminal is made a high voltage contact. This is
      obtained by actually using two phases of high
      induction coil resonance, procurred from the 3 phase
      AC converted alternator. These are placed as loads on
      two phases of a preliminary voltage rise from
      alternator as midpoints of preliminary low resistance
      delta series resonances. One of the coil phases behind
      the other uses a water capacity for its C quantity for
      resonance, where here it is placed inside the magnetic
      field of the front coil pictured. The front coil uses
      a plexiglass capacity for its C quantity used for
      resonance, where only a portion of the total plate
      area is used.

      Now the water axial capacity consists of the only
      electrical connection by a simple clip inserted in the
      water, and the direct electrical connection first goes
      to the brightest neon, and then thru an intervening
      barrier of 3 inch stack of 1 inch Sr Fe magnets, then
      another 20 inch bulb, to a 1 inch wafer, thru another
      bulb and ending with a stainless steel plate/wafer
      magnet ending. A coil sensor is over the first magnet,
      and when this was checked for activity, it seemed to
      show some amazing things.

      By variac DC regulation to field the voltage to device
      can be gradually increased where only one bulb lights,
      then two in series and finally all three, and each
      time this occurs the magnetic field sensor delivers a
      different AC signal over the first set of magnets.
      Preliminary to lighting the first bulb the sensor
      over the magnet is producing the same signal as when
      suspended over the magnetic field! This seems most
      remarkable that this easy method of oscillating a
      magnetic field could exist. The amazing thing is that
      the magnetic oscillations have a low saturation level
      where the very smallest electrical inputs suggest best
      performance. It is before the first bulb fires that
      those oscillations can be seen as pure sinusoidals.
      The astute reader might ask how that could even
      possibly be happening since no neon discharge to a
      first polarity has even yet occured to the magnet
      plate?. It may be surmised that a magnet, while not
      effectively interacting with a magnetic winding of
      induction coil, might effectively interact instead
      interact with a magnetic field created in different
      ways, such as that directly created by capacitive
      plates. It was such a single plate method first formed
      with 60 hz resonance that a method of single layered
      speakered wirings could take off significant energy to
      light two neons to plate areas.

      Rather to be simplistic here, it would seem that the
      magnets have an affinity to electricity. They were not
      initially incorporated into the circuit. First
      observations of possible extraction of energy from the
      axial water capacity of some .6 nf involved having
      each bulb attached to clips at equidistance points
      from the midpoint outer foil electrode of a plastic
      water container where a a copper pipe serves as the
      central electrode. The voltage rise of the ordinary
      plexiglass made resonance occurs as the plate attached
      to the coil, where this was initially connected as an
      extra plate to the magnet, which without first
      thinking about it,was not deduced to significantly
      alter that capacity, and was only done to make a
      better discharge. This is shown as
      16.5 Stator Volt test . where larger amount of
      testings are shown in the file to date at
      This first testing shows the 2 bulb series connection
      to opposite points of the water. 16.58 stator volts
      enables 501 volts to coil, and also recording 544
      volts across a single bulb. The return line current
      for both phases is recorded as 19.1 ma.

      Now The magnet was directly involved as the polar
      ended capacity for the neon discharge. The first plate
      connection to the opposite potential was removed. To
      show the magnetic field over the magnet itself, it is
      similar to the magnetic field around the neon shown
      here also by sensor reception to scope at
      Improved Operation (1)
      Here at 20.11 volt stator enables:
      Here a analogue needle 1000 volt meter shows about 600
      volts across the plexiglass LC combination, and the
      amperage quantity of 12.9 ma, as the meter directly
      below it.
      The adjacent phase using the water cap LC has 733
      volts and 10.6 ma conduction. Because each phase
      recieves its voltage from a resonant rise of voltage,
      it will supply a higher voltage to a higher impedance,
      shown here as the 733/600 volt differences. What
      happens is that the resonances are being spatially
      interacted here in only a one fold fashion, where the
      electric field from one resonant phase, is placed
      orthogonally in space in the magnetic field of the
      adjacent resonant phase. This may cause that phase to
      appear with either more or less impedance then would
      normally be the case, depending on the polarity
      connections of the adjacent phase. This is because the
      changing electric field in space also produces its own
      counterpart changing magnetic field in space, 90
      degrees later in time of formation, thus the magnetic
      field interactions of both phases in the same space
      actually can change the impedance of both phases.

      Thus ordinarily we explain reactance amperage
      consumptions in the theory of capacitive or inductive
      reactances, where these are each opposite effects,
      that when placed in series generates the further
      voltage to enable a further amperage consumption
      beyond what it delivers in reactance alone
      measurements. Along with these come phase angle
      considerations. With 120 degree phases of an
      alternator, this normally means that a line serving
      two equal one amp branches will contain 1.7 amps. If
      the phases were instead 90 degrees out phase, the line
      serving both pahses would be 1.4 amps. If they are 180
      out of phase that line will have to be near 0 amps,
      and the return currents are taking place entirely on
      the ajacent phase in cooperation. If the phases
      themselves are near a zero phase angle between
      them,(which could be done by making each phase at a 60
      degree phase angle in opposite predominating
      reactances), then we might suspect around 2 amp
      serving two 1 amp lines.

      So here we have the third line recording 24.53 ma as
      the returning line current from two other currents,
      that we can only assume to be closely in phase because
      one contains 10.6 ma and the other contains 12.9,
      adding to only 23.5 ma.

      It seems tempting to assume that since impedance was
      added by spatial juxtapositioning of LC quantities
      near resonance, the quantity of additional work done
      by the fields in interaction itself is expressed as
      the addition of amperage when those currents
      themselves are combined together! In any case the
      usual phase angle considerations, and Kirchoff's Laws
      of current nodes seem to be in defiance as to what
      goes in and what goes out. Thus the idea of placing a
      load on that branch for possible overunity
      considerations of simply measuring 3 inputs, the
      losses on all the resistive components, and those
      shown by the load itself, sounds feasible as an
      approach. A 4 inch neon connected at that juncture was
      showing 13 ma conduction, much higher than normal
      delivery will give, where this is normally measured in
      the 3 ma range. Thus tends to cause sputtering and
      blackening of glass to end electrodes.

      4th harmonic riding on coils magnetic field/2ms/div

      Shows how the triangular sawtooth wave made by
      neon/magnet connection influences magnetic field

      Axial Capacitive Resonance /Deletion File

      Shows only single phase of resonance with axial water
      cap, with dual channels to record what is sensed by
      equal inductors arranged identically over the coil and
      axial capacity. Channnel for electric field is turned
      up ten fold in voltage selection to record weaker
      signal to compare phasings, and to simply show how a
      changing electric field in space also creates a
      simultaneous magnetic field in space. (This will be

      To get back to the first example employing three
      bulbs, it became interesting to compare the DRAW of
      amperage made by the magnet plate conductions, by
      placing a 4th argon bulb directly across the high
      voltage points of each resonance, or their LC
      midpoints. This essentially means a much lower
      resistance path is established. Most neon folks have
      told me that it is practically impossible to use two
      neons in parallel, because it will always allow the
      exclusive conduction on one of the branches, where
      once it becomes conductive, all the current will go
      through that branch. Thus this initially happens, the
      argon path of least resistance occurs. The other
      pathway is not actually electrically even connected to
      the high voltage points of the circuit. To trace its
      pathway from the same voltage source is from the
      ouside foil of the water container, through the poly
      barrrier as displacement current , thru water to
      actual electrical connnection througn neon 1, through
      3 inches of Sr. Fr, thru neon 2, thru another inch of
      Sr Fe, thru neon 3 and another inch of Sr Fe to
      another barrier of wood and plexiglass before reaching
      the opposite voltage potential. Yet that "somewhat
      parallel" pathway will extinguish the argon discharge
      and begin a momentary neon disharge of its elements,
      until the argon again extinguishes that discharge with
      the net effect of those systems, refusing to share the
      amperage flow, cause a rapid blinking back and forth,
      which is almost similar to the actions of a high
      frequency arc gap, where now the fighting neons
      establish a similar method making a higher frequency
      out of a source frequency.

      I think in many ways the magnet conductions themselves
      RESEMBLE the same kind phenomenon that neons exhibit.
      we cannot simply scale conductions up by increasing
      the voltage, although that is exactly what happens
      when the magnets themselves were placed on the first
      set of resonant voltage rises. These kind of nonlinear
      comparisons are quite frequent with the
      magnet/alternator experimentation.

      I have now found that what was thought to be a quality
      of capacitive reactance to explain these ferrite
      conductions, where we must be dealing with an ceramic
      capacity with large leakage currents, in fact nothing
      but resistance or those leakage currents seems to be
      in play. This was determined by making a measured 1 nf
      sample, and putting it in series with the induction
      coil that uses that ~ Cvalue for resonance, where no
      resonance was shown by voltage gain, and the
      conductions remained near identical. However the
      second interphasing method using a ferrite component
      seemed to yeild some results when placed in parallel
      to a reduced plate capacity on the normal plexiglass
      phase. In that situation the normal leakage currents
      may be inhibited by the presense of that phases
      juxtaposed magnetic field on the electric, possibly
      decreasing its action of leakage and making the
      capacitance as the current predominate.

      But in any case I am most pessimistic now about
      ferrite use in capacitive applications now, and can
      only view it as a resistance that changes its quantity
      with impressed emf. It might however provide a means
      of series secondary current ballasting, where this
      sometimes becomes necessary for high frequency
      circuits containing arc gaps.

      Now I am recently making experiments with low
      resistance alternator resonances, of 1 ohm or as far
      as low as can be made. This is because the tests can
      also be made with no field input, where current
      limiting of the stator resistance by the alternator
      itself seems to have a built in parametric oscillation
      as a governor, where the maximum conduction at short
      of a single phase is 1.5 Amps at the no field input
      level. A standard 14 volt stator at open connections
      may be reduced in voltage to 11 volts when being asked
      to deliver a higher amperage demand brought on by the
      low resistance of the one ohm value in resonance, and
      it does not produce the full amperage at resonance
      that would be made at series resonance, because the
      internal resistance of the stator windings also limit
      the current in the total emf loop. Only 7 amps,
      instead of 11 amps for 11 volts the stator supplies
      with that load developes. If we however instead take
      out the resonant load and instead measure the metered
      conduction of a short, we should then expect the
      highest value of conduction, but for this case here I
      have measured only 4 amps on the short. What seems to
      make this possible is the the voltage reduction made
      by the shorted stator is so severe that less then 3/4
      volts then appears to enable conduction on the shorted
      wind. In any case I can start to make a comparison of
      what might happen with simultaneous leakage reactance
      currents, AND the additional ordinary impedance made
      influence of windings around the magnet, which is
      ordinarily only 50% greater than air core alone for
      the wafer model.

      Sincerely HDN

      Comments/ It is now understood that by the maximum power transfer
      axiom, this will occur when the loads resistance equals the source
      emf resistance. However this only indicates the maximum amount of
      power that can be extracted, and says nothing about the efficiency of
      that delivery. The heating losses on the load and stator are equal
      for identical resistance loads, and this is also only 50% efficient
      then. In any case, when we place a load LESS that the source's
      internal resistance, this causes the emf to drop so low that there is
      actually LESS amperage conduction than would exist if a equal
      resistance load were present. This explains why we can draw less
      amperage on a shorted stator, then when the load is near the stator
      resistance value. Since these are thought to be ~1/3 ohm, it still
      leaves some question on how the 1 ohm resoanant load can actually
      draw twice the amperage that exists in short condition.
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