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RE: [tekumel] Re: glorious war crossbows

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  • Steve@origob.cix.co.uk
    ... I draw your attention to that last word... ... Try something simple like flapping your arms all the way up and down 5 times. You ll be pressed to do it
    Message 1 of 21 , Mar 1, 2006
      > Hi mate not trying to cause an argument by using my trusty
      > source book it states the elite seljuq horse arhers
      > supposedly

      I draw your attention to that last word...

      > could snatch five arrows for their quiver and fire
      > them in 2 and 1/2 seconds, one of my osprey books on central
      > asian forces mentions something similar but i think a little
      > slower, cant find it at the moment.

      Try something simple like flapping your arms all the way up and down 5
      times. You'll be pressed to do it under 2.5 secs, but you'll probably come
      close. Now consider that you have to pull an arrow out of a quiver on your
      back, nock it on, draw back a bow, aim and fire, and do all of this 5 times
      in 2.5 seconds. Again, I would say this is simply not possible. If we assume
      the bow has a very light draw, and that no pretense is made at aiming, then
      maybe you could do it with a lot of practice. However, shooting wild,
      short-range, low-impact shots is not what I'd call archery! (In fact, it
      does closely resemble the little archery that I've done, but that's another
      story :))


      > I was completely
      > incredulous until like a said earlier i saw some guy do it on
      > a doco (lost worlds? maybe not sure, they had a three parter
      > on barbarians) and hit a target while at a gallop. I dont
      > think i have it anymore but he got them off at about 1 per
      > second, most of my other sources list about
      > 12 a minute

      That's about 6 seconds per shot and is consistent with what other people are
      saying.

      > Though probably its not imposible, coordinated effort of two
      > different positions of archers maybe?

      Indeed, that's a very good suggestion. If half your archers fire low and
      half fire high then it becomes very difficult for targeted troops to protect
      themselves. You could even have your crossbowmen do the low shots and your
      archers do the high shots, so giving a role to your crossbowmen.

      Steve
    • Steve@origob.cix.co.uk
      A friend of mine at uni was grand panjandrum (or whatever) of the archery society. One of his shoulders was about twice the size of the other: visibly rounded
      Message 2 of 21 , Mar 1, 2006
        A friend of mine at uni was grand panjandrum (or whatever) of the archery
        society. One of his shoulders was about twice the size of the other: visibly
        rounded (up, not down) and higher. He used a 70lb bow if I remember
        correctly. He'd only done archery since his teens.

        Steve

        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: tekumel@yahoogroups.com
        > [mailto:tekumel@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Neil Smith
        > Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 11:48 PM
        > To: tekumel@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [tekumel] Re: glorious war crossbows
        >
        > On Tuesday 28 Feb 2006 10:48 am, Steve@... wrote:
        >
        > > You can learn to draw a bow properly in a few hours and train to be
        > > reasonably accurate against a man-sized, still target in a
        > few days.
        > > The lifetime element was not due to training, but stems
        > from a legal
        > > requirement (instituted by Edward III) for English yeomen
        > to practice
        > > at least one day a week with a longbow.
        > >
        >
        > You can draw a light (~24 lb) bow in a couple of hours. The
        > trouble is, those bows have a range of only a few dozen yards
        > and are unlikely to hit anyone hard enough to do damage. To
        > draw the 100 lb + bows of the professional archers takes
        > years of practice and has a visible and profound effect on
        > muscle and bone structure. The skeletons of archers found on
        > the Mary Rose (Henry VIII's flagship) were easily
        > distinguishable from the sailors' because of the unusual bone
        > development in the archers.
        >
        > Neil.
        >
        > --
        > Neil Smith Milton Keynes Roleplaying
        > Games Club
        > neil@...
        > http://www.mk-rpg.org.uk
        > http://home.freeuk.com/wimp/ Honorary Life Member
        > www.SADWargamers.com
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • orcpaste99
        ... insinuating it is unverified ... 5 times. You ll be pressed to do it under 2.5 secs, but you ll probably come Not really you would be surprised what
        Message 3 of 21 , Mar 1, 2006
          > > supposedly
          >
          > I purposely put it in there as the book says "supposedly"
          insinuating it is unverified
          >
          > Try something simple like flapping your arms all the way up and down
          5 times.
          You'll be pressed to do it under 2.5 secs, but you'll probably come
          Not really you would be surprised what coordinated actions humans can
          manage in short periods of time boxing punches and thrown in about 1/4
          of a second, full power combinations can be landed in under a second
          Now consider that you have to pull an arrow out of a quiver
          on your back, nock it on, draw back a bow, aim and fire, and do all of
          this 5 times in 2.5 seconds. Again, I would say this is simply not
          possible.
          They actualy take 5 out at a time and hold them in the bow hand
          Pull them out of the bunch of 5 across the bow nocking them and
          pulling them back in one action fire and repeat
          > If we assume the bow has a very light draw, and that no pretense is
          made at aiming, then
          The turkish recurved bows were very powerfull with very long draws
          > maybe you could do it with a lot of practice. However, shooting
          wild, short-range, low-impact shots is not what I'd call archery!
          probably was used at fairly short ranges as the archers rode past the
          front of the enemy lines
          (In fact, it > does closely resemble the little archery that I've
          done, but that's another story :))

          As for trying something and timing yourseld i reckon start with a
          bucket of tennis balls and throw them at a target hard and fast and
          time youself. I reckon an expert archer could manage with about
          the same rate with a bow, similar amount of arm movement
          >
          >
          > > I was completely
          > > incredulous until like a said earlier i saw some guy do it on
          > > a doco (lost worlds? maybe not sure, they had a three parter
          > > on barbarians) and hit a target while at a gallop. I dont
          > > think i have it anymore but he got them off at about 1 per
          > > second, most of my other sources list about
          > > 12 a minute
          >
          > That's about 6 seconds per shot and is consistent with what other
          people are saying.
          Im agreeing, most of my sources list these more probable times but i
          think this is probably an average for average troops, i think an
          expert could easily do better, at least double the rate (this is just
          my opinion).
          Make you want to go out and see what you could manage yourself
          >
          > >
          >
        • phuston@capital.net
          Does anyone else ever do dumb stuff like this? (Although I did catch myself in time.) Was at a social gathering this afternoon. Was introduced to a man. He
          Message 4 of 21 , Mar 3, 2006
            Does anyone else ever do dumb stuff like this? (Although I did catch myself in
            time.)

            Was at a social gathering this afternoon. Was introduced to a man. He told me
            his name. During the conversation I got confused over the name. (We all do
            this. I mean he only said it once, right?)

            I thought his name was "Kurt" --so I said, "Excuse me, this is an awkward
            question, but your name is Kurt, right?"

            "No," he said. "My name is Matthew."

            I said, "I'm sorry. Why did I think your name was Kurt?"

            He said, with a smile, "I don't know. Maybe I said something like, 'I don't mean
            to be kurt (curt)."

            And I almost made a joke about the "Kurt Hills," realized they were in the south
            central portion of Tsolyanu on the planet Tekumel and caught myself before being
            able to embarrass myself further.

            Anyone else blurt out (or almost blurt out) innapropriate Tekumel references as
            a reflex action from time to time.
          • EvilOverlord
            Rumor has it that, in my younger, wilder years, while once under the influence of demon rum, I ended up standing by the door at a fund raising gala greeting
            Message 5 of 21 , Mar 3, 2006
              Rumor has it that, in my younger, wilder years, while once under the
              influence of demon rum, I ended up standing by the door at a fund
              raising gala greeting the guests with "Otulengba tusmire!"

              But that's just a rumor.

              I'm sure it's not true.

              But I can clearly remember a gentleman shaking his head in confusion
              upon hearing "Ngangmuru bruhaya lel!"

              Still, I'm certain it's just a rumor. ;)

              phuston@... wrote:
              > Does anyone else ever do dumb stuff like this? (Although I did catch myself in
              > time.)
              >
              > Was at a social gathering this afternoon. Was introduced to a man. He told me
              > his name. During the conversation I got confused over the name. (We all do
              > this. I mean he only said it once, right?)
              >
              > I thought his name was "Kurt" --so I said, "Excuse me, this is an awkward
              > question, but your name is Kurt, right?"
              >
              > "No," he said. "My name is Matthew."
              >
              > I said, "I'm sorry. Why did I think your name was Kurt?"
              >
              > He said, with a smile, "I don't know. Maybe I said something like, 'I don't mean
              > to be kurt (curt)."
              >
              > And I almost made a joke about the "Kurt Hills," realized they were in the south
              > central portion of Tsolyanu on the planet Tekumel and caught myself before being
              > able to embarrass myself further.
              >
              > Anyone else blurt out (or almost blurt out) innapropriate Tekumel references as
              > a reflex action from time to time.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
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