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[tc-list] Re: LXX

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  • Robert B. Waltz
    ... It s very hard, based on what I ve seen, to correlate NT text-types with LXX readings. However, I ve read -- and what I ve seen in Paul seems to support
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 28, 1999
      On 12/28/99, Gregory J. Woodhouse wrote:

      >Very interesting. Wht can be said about similarities between NT
      >mss. (which?) and LXX mss. here?

      It's very hard, based on what I've seen, to correlate NT text-types
      with LXX readings.

      However, I've read -- and what I've seen in Paul seems to support
      this -- that the NT more often quotes the readings of the A text
      of LXX than the B text. (This is based just on Rahlfs, I'm afraid.)
      That is, the LXX text circulating in NT times seems not to be the
      "Old Greek" as originally translated, but rather the somewhat
      revised later versions.

      Come to think of it, this *might* have been what the original
      poster's source's original source said. Not that the NT quotes
      the Hebrew, but that the NT quotes the LXX texts which have been
      revised based on the Hebrew.

      -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-

      Robert B. Waltz
      waltzmn@...

      Want more loudmouthed opinions about textual criticism?
      Try my web page: http://www.skypoint.com/~waltzmn
      (A site inspired by the Encyclopedia of NT Textual Criticism)

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    • rlmullen@netpath.net
      For the Pauline Epistles, see Christopher D. Stanley, PAUL AND THE LANGUAGE OF SCRIPTURE, SNTS Mongraph Series 74, (Cambridge, 1992). --Rod Mullen ...
      Message 2 of 14 , Dec 28, 1999
        For the Pauline Epistles, see Christopher D. Stanley, PAUL AND THE LANGUAGE
        OF SCRIPTURE, SNTS Mongraph Series 74, (Cambridge, 1992).

        --Rod Mullen

        At 03:51 PM 12/28/99 -0600, you wrote:
        >On 12/28/99, Gregory J. Woodhouse wrote:
        >
        >>Very interesting. Wht can be said about similarities between NT
        >>mss. (which?) and LXX mss. here?
        >
        >It's very hard, based on what I've seen, to correlate NT text-types
        >with LXX readings.
        >
        >However, I've read -- and what I've seen in Paul seems to support
        >this -- that the NT more often quotes the readings of the A text
        >of LXX than the B text. (This is based just on Rahlfs, I'm afraid.)
        >That is, the LXX text circulating in NT times seems not to be the
        >"Old Greek" as originally translated, but rather the somewhat
        >revised later versions.
        >
        >Come to think of it, this *might* have been what the original
        >poster's source's original source said. Not that the NT quotes
        >the Hebrew, but that the NT quotes the LXX texts which have been
        >revised based on the Hebrew.
        >
        >-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
        >
        > Robert B. Waltz
        > waltzmn@...
        >
        >Want more loudmouthed opinions about textual criticism?
        >Try my web page: http://www.skypoint.com/~waltzmn
        >(A site inspired by the Encyclopedia of NT Textual Criticism)
        >
        >---
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        leave-tc-list-525M@...-certr.org
        >


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      • U.B.Schmid
        ... D.-A. Koch, Die Schrift als Zeuge des Evangeliums. Untersuchungen zur Verwendung und zum Verstaendnis der Schrift bei Paulus (BHTh 69), 1986 makes the
        Message 3 of 14 , Dec 29, 1999
          rlmullen@... wrote:
          > For the Pauline Epistles, see Christopher D. Stanley, PAUL AND THE LANGUAGE
          > OF SCRIPTURE, SNTS Mongraph Series 74, (Cambridge, 1992).

          D.-A. Koch, Die Schrift als Zeuge des Evangeliums. Untersuchungen zur Verwendung
          und zum Verstaendnis der Schrift bei Paulus (BHTh 69), 1986 makes the point that
          Pauline texts occasionally give pre-hexaplaric *Textforms*.

          ------------------------------------------
          Dr. Ulrich Schmid
          U.B.Schmid@...


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        • Ron Minton
          Date sent: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 10:07:53 -0800 (PST) From: Gregory J. Woodhouse To: TC-List
          Message 4 of 14 , Jan 4, 2000
            Date sent: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 10:07:53 -0800 (PST)
            From: "Gregory J. Woodhouse" <news1!gjw@...>
            To: "TC-List" <tc-list@...-certr.org>
            Subject: [tc-list] Re: LXX
            Very interesting. What can be said about similarities between NT
            mss. (which?) and LXX mss. here? Gregory Woodhouse
            gjw@... / http://www.wnetc.com/home.html
            -------------------------------------
            A few years ago, I read a paper on this at an SBL Regional
            meeting in St. Louis (March 23, 1996). There are only 19 places in
            the UBSGNT/NA/Maj texts where the NT has both an OT quotation
            and a textual variant in the quoted part. These are a small number,
            but the Maj. Text tends to quote from Hebrew more and the Cr.
            Text tends to quote from the LXX more. The Maj. Text deviates
            from both the Heb and LXX 26%. The Cr. Text does so 74%. I did
            not feel that there was solid evidence that either had been modified
            by scribes for the purpose of conforming to a certain OT text. For
            details, see my SBL paper. The chart below is simplified from the
            paper; it did not survive the transmission well, but is still useful.
            Below the Scripture references is found the Maj. then the Cr. For
            example, in the first entry, the Maj. follows the LXX and the Cr.
            follows the Hebrew. My comments then follow.

            NT TEXTUAL FAMILY VARIANTS
            OF OT QUOTATIONS

            NT/OT PASSAGE

            BYZANTINE (MAJORITY)

            ALEXANDRIAN (UBS4/NA27)

            NOTES AND COMMENTS

            

            Mt. 2:18
            Jer. 31:15

            LXX

            Hebrew

            The Maj. mss. add "lamentation" to follow the LXX.
            
            Mk. 10:6-7
            Gen. 2:24

            LXX/Heb

            Deviates 

            UBS4 {D} text is in brackets, but clearly
            attested in LXX, Heb, Maj.

            

            Mk. 12:36
            Ps. 110:1

            LXX/Heb

            Deviates

            See Mt. 22:44 - same Cr. deviant; UBS4 does not
            list a variant.

            
            Mk. 15:34
            Ps. 22:1

            Hebrew

            Hebrew

            Minor variant; both Alex. and Byz. evidence divided.

            

            Lk. 4:4
            Dt. 8:3

            LXX/Heb

            Deviates

            Cr. here omits key phrase from OT & the Maj.

            

            Lk. 19:38
            Ps. 118:26

            Deviates
            

            Deviates
            

            Both texts add the word "king" not found in OT.
            Actual variant is minor.

            

            Jn. 12:40
            Is. 6:10

            Hebrew

            Hebrew

            Minor variants in verb forms; little effect on meaning.

            

            Jn. 13:18
            Ps. 41:9

            Deviates

            LXX/Heb

            Maj. has "bread with me" where OT, Cr. have "my bread."

            

            Acts 7:32
            Ex. 3:4-10

            LXX/Heb

            Deviates 

            Cr. shortens quote by omitting phrase "the God of" twice.

            

            Rom. 3:12
            Ps. 14:1-3
            Ps. 53:1-3

            LXX/Heb

            Deviates 

            UBS4 {C} text is in brackets, but clearly
            attested reading. Slight deviation from OT.

            

            Rom. 9:28
            Is. 10:22-3
            Hos. 1:10

            LXX

            Deviates

            Cr. omits LXX phrase "cut it short in righteousness."

            

            Rom. 10:15
            Is. 52:7
            Na. 1:15 

            LXX/Heb

            Deviates

            Cr. omits OT phrase; Maj. shows some division.

            

            1 Cor.15:55
            Hos. 13:14

            Deviates

            Deviates

            Both texts differ from OT in verb choice; Cr. "death" for "Hades."

            

            Eph. 4:8
            Ps. 68:18

            Deviates

            Deviates

            Variant is minor. Both texts show intentional deviation by Paul.

            

            Heb. 1:8
            Ps. 45:6-7

            LXX/Heb

            LXX/Heb

            Minor variant
            

            

            19Heb. 1:12
            Ps.102:25-6

            LXX

            Deviates

            Cr. has "as a garment," not found in OT.11 The New Testament
            only quotes the last portion of thi the first part of the LXX which is
            not being quoted (or, perhaps, reverts to the Hebrew word order)
            
            Heb.
            2:7 Ps. 8:5-7

            Deviates

            Deviates

            Both texts follow partial quote; part of Maj. has full quote.

            

            Heb. 8:11
            Jer.31:31-4

            LXX/Heb

            Deviates

            Cr. omits "of them" found in OT & Maj.

            

            Heb. 10:38
            Hab. 2:3-4

            LXX

            Deviates

            Cr. adds "my" not found in OT or Maj.; otherwise, LXX
            

            one miserable scribbler,
            Ron Minton

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