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tc-list RE- The Living Text

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  • Mr. Gary S. Dykes
    Professor Willker (and TC- list community) My web site, which is under construction, will make known my understandings about variants and the Word of God.
    Message 1 of 3 , Sep 1, 1999
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      Professor Willker (and TC- list community)
      My web site, which is under construction, will make known my
      understandings about variants and the Word of God. Indeed, you are to be
      congratulated, this is a major issue -- a silent one which haunts many
      conservative pastors. Traditionally TC of the Bible has been subjected
      exclusively to human logic, using established principles derived from
      classical scholarship.
      To the written Word of God the classical canons of criticism have been
      applied. One result of this has been chaos, especially amongst pagan
      scholars -- as they cannot determine which reading is original in many
      cases. Thus they claim (some do) the original text is unrecoverable, when
      conservatives here of this lamentation despair can set in, or the critics
      are just ignored. And this is the case in many churches and parishes, the
      critics/scholars are ignored.
      My thesis is to posit that the possession and reliance upon the
      indwelling Holy Spirit is mandatory for critical exegesis to proceed. Only
      an obedient saint has the ability to use and enjoy the variants. Such gifted
      saints live and experience the living Word, it is part of their daily lives
      in every aspect (Hebrews 4:12). They have an extremely close living
      relationship with the Word! Which means that total agreement or complete
      uniformity will not result. For each qualified elected person/scholar may
      truly have a different perspective and choice. I believe God allows for
      this. Variants exist because God did not want Satan to be able to focus upon
      ONE single original. It lies in this dispersed in this large panoply of
      manuscripts, protected, and believers only have the Key by which to extract
      the true text when variants do arise. The true text is dispersed amongst
      many copies, and gifted saints/scholars can reconstruct the originals. Much
      training is required, and not all saints have this unique ministry, and it
      will engender some bitterness, but faith must prevail.
      It is this unique faith which pagan critics lack, they cannot even
      comprehend how a believer (an elected person) can see some poorly attested
      variant as genuine.
      It is understood that the canons of textual criticism are very needed
      and useful, I rely upon them in my work, but the witness of the Holy Spirit
      is often overlooked. Overlooked because it is not scientifically
      observable. Both external and internal criteria must be used in decision
      making, but the Holy Spirit should also be consulted, and only those folks
      who have a healthy relationship through Christ with God can truly use this
      powerful tool.

      much more coming at my site,
      at your service,
      Mr. Gary S. Dykes - yhwh3in1@...
    • Mike and Jeanne Arcieri
      ... Gary, Although I am not interested in starting a debate along these lines on the TC-LIST (but I would be willing to discuss this privately), I would like
      Message 2 of 3 , Sep 2, 1999
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        Mr. Gary S. Dykes wrote:

        > It is understood that the canons of textual criticism are very needed
        > and useful, I rely upon them in my work, but the witness of the Holy Spirit
        > is often overlooked. Overlooked because it is not scientifically
        > observable. Both external and internal criteria must be used in decision
        > making, but the Holy Spirit should also be consulted, and only those folks
        > who have a healthy relationship through Christ with God can truly use this
        > powerful tool.

        Gary,

        Although I am not interested in starting a debate along these lines on the TC-LIST (but I would be
        willing to discuss this privately), I would like to ask you a question regarding your methodology:
        you state that

        "the canons of textual criticism are very needed and useful,
        I rely upon them in my work, but the witness of the Holy Spirit
        is often overlooked. Overlooked because it is not scientifically
        observable. Both external and internal criteria must be used
        in decision making, but the Holy Spirit should also be consulted..."

        I infer that your methodology is:

        1 - apply the canons of TC on a select group of variants in order to determine which reading is the
        'original';
        2 - 'consult' the Holy Spirit with regards to identifying the original reading.

        Now since I have your methodology in theory, can you now demonstrate the _practical workings_ of this
        for the following passages?:

        1. Matt. 27:35 ('that it might be fulfilled...')
        2. John 5:7-8 (Johannine Comma)
        3. Acts 8:37 ('and Philip said...')



        Mike Arcieri
      • Robert B. Waltz
        On 9/1/99, Mr. Gary S. Dykes wrote, in part: [ ... ] ... To this I must ask a very stupid question: If you and I both practice criticism by trusting the
        Message 3 of 3 , Sep 2, 1999
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          On 9/1/99, Mr. Gary S. Dykes wrote, in part:

          [ ... ]

          > My thesis is to posit that the possession and reliance upon the
          >indwelling Holy Spirit is mandatory for critical exegesis to proceed.

          To this I must ask a very stupid question: If you and I both practice
          criticism by trusting the "indwelling Holy Spirit," and we disagree,
          how do we proceed?

          Two different scholars practicing scientific methods may produce
          different results, but both should achieve *repeatable* results.
          The Holy Spirit, sad to say, does *not* produce repeatable results,
          or else there would be no profusion of Protestant sects.

          Again, to ask a stupid question, If you trust the Holy Spirit to
          tell you what the Bible says, how can you trust the Bible in the
          first place? If the Spirit tells you that 1 Corinthians 12:3 "ought"
          to read "It is only by the Holy Spirit that one can say 'Jesus be
          cursed,'" how can you prove that wrong? The Spirit told you to
          do it! (And it is no good to say, "No, the Spirit didn't," because
          while I freely concede that it didn't tell *you* that, there is
          no question that others have gotten different messages. The
          point is, how can you, without some form of non-spiritual
          criteria for judgment, tell a "good" spirit from a "bad"?)

          I find this attitude utterly incomprehensible -- and dangerous.

          -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-

          Robert B. Waltz
          waltzmn@...

          Want more loudmouthed opinions about textual criticism?
          Try my web page: http://www.skypoint.com/~waltzmn
          (A site inspired by the Encyclopedia of NT Textual Criticism)
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