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Re: tc-list Mt 17.2 Tatian and Legg

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  • Jean Valentin
    ... Ulrich, You re correct. The Arabic harmony does exactly what you say. I don t know why I didn t see it - probably because Marmardji ascribes it to Luke and
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 31, 1969
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      >did you check the Arabic Harmonies? In D. Plooij, A Primitive Text of the
      >Diatessaron, Leyden 1923, p. 54 I found the following remark (s.v. Mt
      >17.1f) :
      >"The Arabic Tatian has combined the 'snow' and the 'light of lightning'."
      >
      Ulrich,


      You're correct. The Arabic harmony does exactly what you say. I don't know why I didn't see it - probably because Marmardji ascribes it to Luke and not to Mt.
      Interesting is that my Arabic version retains only the lightning, and not the snow.

      Thanks for the tip.

      Jean




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    • Jean Valentin
      Dear TC-ers, I have a question about the end of Mt 17.2 ta de imatia autou egeneto leuka ws to fws . According to most Greek witnesses, Jesus clothes became
      Message 2 of 7 , Dec 31, 1969
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        Dear TC-ers,


        I have a question about the end of Mt 17.2 "ta de imatia autou egeneto leuka ws to fws". According to most Greek witnesses, Jesus' clothes became white "as light". Some witnesses, including D, the old latin and sy.c, have "as snow" (possible harmo with Mt 28.3).

        Now there seems to be a third variant: "as the lightning" (sicut splendor fulguris). I met it in one of my Arabic manuscripts, which I suspect to be closely apparented to some form of the vetus syra. But I didn't find parallels. My question is: where does Legg meet this variant, as in his patristical apparatus he mentions that Tatian has it? After going through most of the diatessaronic editions and repertories of citations I have here, I found only the two variants mentioned above, but not the third one. Where did Legg get this information, or is there some diatessaric witness that escapes me?

        Thank you for your help.

        Jean V.


        _______________________________________________________________
        Jean Valentin - 34 rue du Berceau - 1000 Bruxelles - Belgique
        tel. 32-2-280.01.37
        e-mail : jgvalentin@...
        _______________________________________________________________
        "Ce qui est trop simple est faux, ce qui est trop compliqué est inutilisable"
        _______________________________________________________________
      • U.B.Schmid
        ... Jean, did you check the Arabic Harmonies? In D. Plooij, A Primitive Text of the Diatessaron, Leyden 1923, p. 54 I found the following remark (s.v. Mt
        Message 3 of 7 , Jun 3, 1999
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          Jean Valentin wrote:
          > Dear TC-ers,
          >
          >
          > I have a question about the end of Mt 17.2 "ta de imatia autou egeneto leuka
          > ws to fws". According to most Greek witnesses, Jesus' clothes became white
          > "as light". Some witnesses, including D, the old latin and sy.c, have "as
          > snow" (possible harmo with Mt 28.3).
          >
          > Now there seems to be a third variant: "as the lightning" (sicut splendor
          > fulguris). I met it in one of my Arabic manuscripts, which I suspect to be
          > closely apparented to some form of the vetus syra. But I didn't find
          > parallels. My question is: where does Legg meet this variant, as in his
          > patristical apparatus he mentions that Tatian has it? After going through
          > most of the diatessaronic editions and repertories of citations I have here,
          > I found only the two variants mentioned above, but not the third one. Where
          > did Legg get this information, or is there some diatessaric witness that
          > escapes me?


          Jean,

          did you check the Arabic Harmonies? In D. Plooij, A Primitive Text of the
          Diatessaron, Leyden 1923, p. 54 I found the following remark (s.v. Mt 17.1f) :
          "The Arabic Tatian has combined the 'snow' and the 'light of lightning'."

          ------------------------------------------
          Dr. Ulrich Schmid
          U.B.Schmid@...
        • William L. Petersen
          ... leuka ws to fws . According to most Greek witnesses, Jesus clothes became white as light . Some witnesses, including D, the Old Latin and sy.c, have as
          Message 4 of 7 , Jun 3, 1999
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            RE Jean Valentin's question (and some other matters):
            >
            >I have a question about the end of Mt 17.2 "ta de imatia autou egeneto
            leuka ws to fws". According to most Greek witnesses, Jesus' clothes became
            white "as light". Some witnesses, including D, the Old Latin and sy.c, have
            "as snow" (possible harmo with Mt 28.3).
            >
            >Now there seems to be a third variant: "as the lightning" (sicut splendor
            fulguris). I met it in one of my Arabic manuscripts, which I suspect to be
            closely apparented to some form of the vetus syra. But I didn't find
            parallels. My question is: where does Legg meet this variant, as in his
            patristical apparatus he mentions that Tatian has it? After going through
            most of the diatessaronic editions and repertories of citations I have
            here, I found only the two variants mentioned above, but not the third one.
            Where did Legg get this information, or is there some diatessaric witness
            that escapes me?
            >
            >Thank you for your help.
            >
            >Jean V.
            >

            I note already Ulrich Schmid's reply; indeed, there is such a variant.

            In the edition of Marmardji (1935, pp. 228[Arab.] and 229 [French], lines
            9-13), the Arabic Diatessaron reads (as per his French translation): "(Mt.
            XVII,2a) Jesus changea (d'aspect), (Lc. IX, 29b) et devint selon la forme
            d'une autre personne. (Mt. XVII,2c) Et son visage brilla comme le soleil.
            (Lc. IX, 29c) Et ses vetements etaient blancs, (Mc. IX,3b) extremement,
            comme la neige, (Lc. IX,29d) et (etincelaient) comme l'etincellement de
            l'eclair." Note that Marmardji ascribes the reading to Mark, where it does
            exsit, as a variant, in some MSS.

            The reference is from chap. 24 of the Arabic Harmony. Ciasca's edition
            (1888), pp. 42-43 (Latin translation) also gives the same reading (more or
            less), also indicated as a harmonization: "Matth. XVII, 2b. et resplenduit
            facies eius sicut sol, Luc. IX, 29b. et vestitus eius factus [pg. 43] est
            candidus nimis velut nix, et sicut splendor fulguris." Note that Ciasca
            ascribes it to Luke. Why, I do not know...

            This same harmonization also turns up in the West, in at least the Middle
            Dutch Liege Harmony (I've not taken the time to check any other texts): in
            Plooij's edition the reference is to page 265, where he gives an extensive
            apparatus. Plooij notes that the reading--in Matthew--is found in the
            Sinaitic Syriac (Syr-s; Syr-c deest), the Vetus Latina (ex. *q*), Bezae
            (already noted by Jean...), the Old-Hebrew (du Tillet), the Old German
            (*Die Erste Deutsche Bibel,* ed. W. Kurrelmeyer [Tuebingen, 1904]), the Old
            French (*Bible Historiale*), the Pepysian Harmony. Plooij then goes on to
            give a *long* list of Marcan MSS which interpolate "as snow."

            So the reading is well-known (as a pointer, always check the Vetus Latina
            on such readings, for it is an exceptionally rich tradition for such
            harmonizations: here, see Juelicher, *Itala--Matthaeus-Ev.* [1938], p.
            119, where it is the standard Old Latin reading....). The reading is also
            that of the Vulgate. Hence, the Western harmonies may well be giving
            simply the dominant Vetus Latina and Vulgate reading.

            The *Synopse* (Tuebingen: JCB Mohr, 1981) of Heinrich Greeven (ob. 1990 or
            so...) also provides an excellent apparatus on this point (he notes
            additional Greek evidence). This Greek synopsis, which was begun by Albert
            Huck, has gone through various editions; Greeven presents his own *very*
            well-constructed text (at many points I prefer it to the NA/UBS text), with
            his own, very complete and very helpful apparatus. I always keep it on my
            desk, for it is a very useful complement to the Aland *Synopsis.*

            I have been on the road a lot recently, and just escaped from the horrors
            of the end of semester; Jean, your earlier question about Shem-Tob will
            get an answer, however it will take time to check it all out. This
            response has (so far) taken over an hour to prepare....

            One final remark on the new Comfort book: as I returned, and skimmed
            through all the e-mail it generated, five thoughts crossed my mind.
            First, harkening back to something I wrote on the list two or more years
            ago, not all books are equal, not all scholars are equal. Some people are
            satisfied with less, some are more demanding. In part, this depends on the
            level at which one works. For the person who dabbles in textual criticism
            but never publishes, Comfort may be an interesting addition to their
            library. For the person who publishes and for whom textual criticism is
            his or her profession, the book will not be used.
            Second, accuracy is the name of the game in textual studies. Indeed, every
            book has errors. But there are three concerns about the errors in this
            book. (A) They strike at the raison d'etre for the book: it is supposed
            to be *an edition* of these papyri. These are not minor errors--1914 being
            printed for 1941, or Berlin printed for the place of publication when it is
            actually Bonn--these errors strike at the whole purpose of the volume. (B)
            The errors represent, in some cases, a *decline* in accuracy from the
            *editio princeps*--something which is astonishing. One would hope that,
            given the *editio princeps* from which to work, accuracy would only
            *increase*. (C) More than a few of the errors (as per the lists provided
            by Maurice Robinson) are significant: whole words being interpolated or
            omitted (articles, *de*, etc.). This is mind-boggling in an edition.
            Third, for a recitation of some of the historical errors in Comfort's
            earlier work, see my review in *JBL* 113 (1994), pp. 529-531, of his *The
            Quest for the Original Text of the New Testament.* Given the level of
            scholarly diligence displayed there, the problems with this new volume are
            not surprising.
            Fourth, the real danger of such books is that *some* people, unwittingly,
            will *use* them, and write whole articles, preach entire sermons on the
            basis of a "reading" found in this "edition"--which proves, in the end, to
            be nothing more than an error of the editors! This is how nonsense
            multiplies in textual studies: erroneous or partial or one-sided data in
            means erroneous or partial or one-sided conclusions out. Serious
            scholars--and not all people are either scholars or serious--are always
            horrified by such erroneous information.
            Pause, for a moment, and think: Have *errors* been a problem with the work
            of the Muenster Institute? I think not. Their accuracy has been--and I
            use the word in its very *best* sense--"Teutonic": meticulous, thorough,
            detailed, exhaustive. We may quibble with what was or was not included in
            the apparatus of a *pocket* edition--which is what NA-27/UBS4 is; we may
            argue over what reading they took into the text. But errors? No.
            Muenster's accuracy is, in an imperfect, error-plagued world, astonishing.
            That is why its work is and continues to be the "gold standard."

            --Petersen, Penn State Univ.
          • Bruce Prior
            Dear William -- I appreciated your recent tc posting about the Muenster folks. I ve just completed a draft paper, Matthew 1:5 in Washingtonianus: the
            Message 5 of 7 , Jun 3, 1999
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              Dear William --
              I appreciated your recent tc posting about the Muenster folks. I've
              just completed a draft paper, "Matthew 1:5 in Washingtonianus: the Spelling
              of Booz," in which I challenge the BOOZ . . . BOAZ reading for W in the
              Variae Lectiones Minores of NA27. Would you like to see the draft? If so,
              let me know if your address in the 1998 AAR/SBL directory is accurate. I'll
              also include a couple of pages from my Freer Gospel transcription/collation
              "work-in-progress" for your comments. Thanks. Bruce Prior


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            • U.B.Schmid
              ... Jean, have you considered the possibility that Marmardji is correct in ascribing the reading to Luke 9.29? How would you translate the participle
              Message 6 of 7 , Jun 3, 1999
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                Jean Valentin wrote:
                > >did you check the Arabic Harmonies? In D. Plooij, A Primitive Text of the
                > >Diatessaron, Leyden 1923, p. 54 I found the following remark (s.v. Mt
                > >17.1f) :
                > >"The Arabic Tatian has combined the 'snow' and the 'light of lightning'."
                > >
                > Ulrich,
                >
                >
                > You're correct. The Arabic harmony does exactly what you say. I don't know
                > why I didn't see it - probably because Marmardji ascribes it to Luke and not
                > to Mt.
                > Interesting is that my Arabic version retains only the lightning, and not the
                > snow.

                Jean,

                have you considered the possibility that Marmardji is correct in ascribing the
                reading to Luke 9.29? How would you translate the participle EXASTRAPTWN
                (ASTRAPH meaning "lightning", cf. the Latin composita with "fulgens" or
                "scoruscantia" [d])in Syriac/Arabic? Maybe your Arabic manuscript (and/or its
                Syriac Vorlage) simply got harmonized with the Lukan account. Just a guess...
                ------------------------------------------
                Dr. Ulrich Schmid
                U.B.Schmid@...
              • Cook@AKAD.SUN.AC.ZA
                Dear list-members As you all probably know by now the AIBI (Association Internationale Bible et Informatique)-6 congress will take place in Stellenbosch, SOUTH
                Message 7 of 7 , Jun 3, 1999
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                  Dear list-members

                  As you all probably know by now the AIBI (Association
                  Internationale Bible et Informatique)-6 congress will take place in
                  Stellenbosch, SOUTH AFRICA 17-21 July 2000. I have had good reaction
                  from collegues working in the fields of Hebrew Bible and Septuagint,
                  even though we would welcome additional proposals. However, as far
                  as the NT goes not many have reacted upon my call for papers. I am
                  still trying to find someone who will be willing to take
                  responsibility for the keynote address. I would appreciate it very
                  much if someone would come forward in this regard.

                  The level of academic activity concerning the NT is high on this
                  list (as is the HB and LXX). I would welcome you all to Stellenbosch.
                  This will present a perfect opportunity to see SOUTH AFRICA. The
                  International SBL meeting will take place in Cape Town just after
                  AIBI-6 from the 24-28th of July. Cape Town is 50 km from here!!

                  With kind regards


                  Johann Cook
                  Prof. Johann Cook
                  Department of Ancient Studies
                  UNIVERSITY OF STELLENBOSCH, PRIVATE BAG X1 MATIELAND ZA-7602
                  SOUTH AFRICA
                  TEL:(0027-21) 8083203; 8083207
                  FAX: (0027-21) 8083480
                  E-mail: cook@...
                  HOMEPAGES:
                  http://www.sun.ac.za/as (Ancient Studies)
                  http://www.sun.ac.za/as/journals/jnsl
                  (Journal of Northwest Semitic Languages)
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