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Re: tc-list Jude 5 IHSOUS versus KURIOS

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  • Robert B. Waltz
    ... Which UBS edition are you using? I checked my (uncorrected) UBS3, my UBS4, and my NA27; all three omit IHSOUS. It is worth noting that UBS3 and UBS4 both
    Message 1 of 16 , Jul 27, 1998
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      On Mon, 27 Jul 1998, lakr@... (lakr) wrote:

      >Greetings TC'ers,
      >
      >I was aware that there were differences in Jude with regard to verse 5,
      >but was very suprised to find that in my UBS3 it actually has
      >IHSOUS, while my NA27 does not. Is this one a close call ?
      >
      >Thanks for considering this.

      Which UBS edition are you using? I checked my (uncorrected) UBS3,
      my UBS4, and my NA27; all three omit IHSOUS. It is worth noting that
      UBS3 and UBS4 both rate the decision a {D}. And, in fact, I agree
      with them. This is one of those relatively rare readings where
      even *I* don't see one obviously correct reading. I'd have to
      think about how I would analyse it. And, since we had a computer
      go down around here today and I'm trying to get things back to where
      it was before it went bad, I will have to wait until others have
      had their say. :-)

      -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-

      Robert B. Waltz
      waltzmn@...

      Want more loudmouthed opinions about textual criticism?
      Try my web page: http://www.skypoint.com/~waltzmn
      (A site inspired by the Encyclopedia of NT Textual Criticism)
    • lakr
      ... I have a GNT which has the UBS with an English version side by side (TEV?) that I picked up at a used book store. It s not with me at the moment, so I
      Message 2 of 16 , Jul 27, 1998
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        >
        > On Mon, 27 Jul 1998, lakr@... (lakr) wrote:
        >
        > >Greetings TC'ers,
        > >
        > >I was aware that there were differences in Jude with regard to verse 5,
        > >but was very suprised to find that in my UBS3 it actually has
        > >IHSOUS, while my NA27 does not. Is this one a close call ?
        > >
        > >Thanks for considering this.
        >
        > Which UBS edition are you using?

        I have a GNT which has the UBS with an English version side by
        side (TEV?) that I picked up at a used book store. It's not with
        me at the moment, so I will try to remember to look and get back
        to you.

        Thanks,
        Larry Kruper
      • Robert B. Waltz
        ... It s only a guess, but I d guess that that edition uses UBS1 or UBS2 rather than UBS3. There were some significant textual changes from the second to the
        Message 3 of 16 , Jul 27, 1998
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          On Mon, 27 Jul 1998, lakr@... (lakr) wrote:

          >> On Mon, 27 Jul 1998, lakr@... (lakr) wrote:
          >>
          >> >Greetings TC'ers,
          >> >
          >> >I was aware that there were differences in Jude with regard to verse 5,
          >> >but was very suprised to find that in my UBS3 it actually has
          >> >IHSOUS, while my NA27 does not. Is this one a close call ?
          >> >
          >> >Thanks for considering this.
          >>
          >> Which UBS edition are you using?
          >
          >I have a GNT which has the UBS with an English version side by
          >side (TEV?) that I picked up at a used book store. It's not with
          >me at the moment, so I will try to remember to look and get back
          >to you.

          It's only a guess, but I'd guess that that edition uses UBS1
          or UBS2 rather than UBS3. There were some significant textual
          changes from the second to the third edition. Unfortunately, I
          don't have a copy of UBS1/2 to check this against.

          Bob Waltz
          waltzmn@...

          "The one thing we learn from history --
          is that no one ever learns from history."
        • lakr
          ... My copy is from the ABS in 1966. The UBS is from 1966 and the TEV is from 1967. It gives no numeral for the UBS version. Perhaps that means it is #1.
          Message 4 of 16 , Jul 29, 1998
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            >
            > On Mon, 27 Jul 1998, lakr@... (lakr) wrote:
            >
            > >> On Mon, 27 Jul 1998, lakr@... (lakr) wrote:
            > >>
            > >> >Greetings TC'ers,
            > >> >
            > >> >I was aware that there were differences in Jude with regard to verse 5,
            > >> >but was very suprised to find that in my UBS3 it actually has
            > >> >IHSOUS, while my NA27 does not. Is this one a close call ?
            > >> >
            > >> >Thanks for considering this.
            > >>
            > >> Which UBS edition are you using?
            > >
            > >I have a GNT which has the UBS with an English version side by
            > >side (TEV?) that I picked up at a used book store. It's not with
            > >me at the moment, so I will try to remember to look and get back
            > >to you.
            >
            > It's only a guess, but I'd guess that that edition uses UBS1
            > or UBS2 rather than UBS3. There were some significant textual
            > changes from the second to the third edition. Unfortunately, I
            > don't have a copy of UBS1/2 to check this against.
            >
            > Bob Waltz
            > waltzmn@...
            >
            > "The one thing we learn from history --
            > is that no one ever learns from history."
            >
            >

            My copy is from the ABS in 1966. The UBS is from 1966 and the TEV
            is from 1967. It gives no numeral for the UBS version. Perhaps
            that means it is #1.

            Larry Kruper
          • Robert B. Waltz
            ... That s the explanation, all right. The copyright dates in my UBS3 are 1966, 1968, 1975. So an edition published before 1968 must be using UBS1. Clearly
            Message 5 of 16 , Jul 30, 1998
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              On Wed, 29 Jul 1998, lakr@... (lakr) wrote:

              >My copy is from the ABS in 1966. The UBS is from 1966 and the TEV
              >is from 1967. It gives no numeral for the UBS version. Perhaps
              >that means it is #1.

              That's the explanation, all right. The copyright dates in my
              UBS3 are 1966, 1968, 1975. So an edition published before 1968
              must be using UBS1. Clearly this is a reading that changed between
              the first and third editions.

              Obviously it was a close call for the committee. :-)

              Bob Waltz
              waltzmn@...

              "The one thing we learn from history --
              is that no one ever learns from history."
            • Carlton Winbery
              ... Keven, could you send me the bibliographic info from the title page of Vaticanus. I have some money and am thinking of purchasing a published facsimile if
              Message 6 of 16 , Aug 13, 1998
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                >We have Kirsopp Lake's photographs of Vaticanus here. What passages do you
                >need and please supply a fax number

                Keven, could you send me the bibliographic info from the title page of
                Vaticanus. I have some money and am thinking of purchasing a published
                facsimile if possible. We have the Bodmer and Beatty Papyri and the
                Sinaiticus in published form. We also have a number of minuscules on
                microfilm. They are good for introducing majors to simple paliographical
                features of TC.

                Thanks,

                Carlton
              • D.R. Edwards
                My apologies in advance is this turns out to be a case of a lurker asking a laughably simple question. In any event, would anyone know how (assuming it s
                Message 7 of 16 , Aug 13, 1998
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                  My apologies in advance is this turns out to be a case of a lurker asking a
                  laughably simple question. In any event, would anyone know how (assuming
                  it's possible) one would get photocopies of any portions of B (G of Mark, in
                  particular)? I've seen the occasional image posted on a web site or two,
                  but I've been unable to find anything further.

                  Thanks in advance.
                • Kevin W. Woodruff
                  We have Kirsopp Lake s photographs of Vaticanus here. What passages do you need and please supply a fax number Kevin ... Kevin W. Woodruff, M.Div. Library
                  Message 8 of 16 , Aug 13, 1998
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                    We have Kirsopp Lake's photographs of Vaticanus here. What passages do you
                    need and please supply a fax number

                    Kevin

                    At 09:43 AM 8/13/98 -0400, you wrote:
                    >My apologies in advance is this turns out to be a case of a lurker asking a
                    >laughably simple question. In any event, would anyone know how (assuming
                    >it's possible) one would get photocopies of any portions of B (G of Mark, in
                    >particular)? I've seen the occasional image posted on a web site or two,
                    >but I've been unable to find anything further.
                    >
                    >Thanks in advance.
                    >
                    >

                    Kevin W. Woodruff, M.Div.
                    Library Director/Reference Librarian
                    Cierpke Memorial Library
                    Tennessee Temple University/Temple Baptist Seminary
                    1815 Union Ave.
                    Chattanooga, Tennessee 37404
                    United States of America
                    423/493-4252 (office)
                    423/698-9447 (home)
                    423/493-4497 (FAX)
                    Cierpke@... (preferred)
                    kwoodruf@... (alternate)
                    http://web.utk.edu/~kwoodruf/woodruff.htm
                  • Dave Washburn
                    ... What would you charge to make a copy of the entire thing? Please contact me off-list... Dave Washburn http://www.nyx.net/~dwashbur When in doubt, go for
                    Message 9 of 16 , Aug 13, 1998
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                      > We have Kirsopp Lake's photographs of Vaticanus here. What passages do you
                      > need and please supply a fax number

                      What would you charge to make a copy of the entire thing? Please
                      contact me off-list...
                      Dave Washburn
                      http://www.nyx.net/~dwashbur
                      When in doubt, go for chocolate. Life is too short
                      not to.
                    • Maurice Taraschi
                      ... you might also want to check with Hill Monastic Manuscript Library on the web at: http://www.csbsju.edu/hmml/
                      Message 10 of 16 , Aug 13, 1998
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                        D.R. Edwards wrote:

                        > My apologies in advance is this turns out to be a case of a lurker asking a
                        > laughably simple question. In any event, would anyone know how (assuming
                        > it's possible) one would get photocopies of any portions of B (G of Mark, in
                        > particular)? I've seen the occasional image posted on a web site or two,
                        > but I've been unable to find anything further.
                        >
                        > Thanks in advance.

                        you might also want to check with Hill Monastic Manuscript Library on the web
                        at:

                        http://www.csbsju.edu/hmml/
                      • Kevin W. Woodruff
                        Dr. Winbery: The info we have says: Bibliorum Sacrum Graecus Codex Vaticanus auspice Pio IX. Pontifice Maximo collatis studiis Caroli Vercellone Sodalis
                        Message 11 of 16 , Aug 13, 1998
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                          Dr. Winbery:

                          The info we have says:

                          Bibliorum Sacrum Graecus Codex Vaticanus auspice Pio IX. Pontifice Maximo
                          collatis studiis Caroli Vercellone Sodalis Barnabitae et Ioseph Cozza
                          Monachi Basiliani editus. Originally Published in 1868. Reproduced by Brown
                          and Thomas, Detroit Michigan, 1982.


                          At 01:50 PM 8/13/98 +0400, you wrote:
                          >>We have Kirsopp Lake's photographs of Vaticanus here. What passages do you
                          >>need and please supply a fax number
                          >
                          >Keven, could you send me the bibliographic info from the title page of
                          >Vaticanus. I have some money and am thinking of purchasing a published
                          >facsimile if possible. We have the Bodmer and Beatty Papyri and the
                          >Sinaiticus in published form. We also have a number of minuscules on
                          >microfilm. They are good for introducing majors to simple paliographical
                          >features of TC.
                          >
                          >Thanks,
                          >
                          >Carlton
                          >
                          >
                          >

                          Kevin W. Woodruff, M.Div.
                          Library Director/Reference Librarian
                          Cierpke Memorial Library
                          Tennessee Temple University/Temple Baptist Seminary
                          1815 Union Ave.
                          Chattanooga, Tennessee 37404
                          United States of America
                          423/493-4252 (office)
                          423/698-9447 (home)
                          423/493-4497 (FAX)
                          Cierpke@... (preferred)
                          kwoodruf@... (alternate)
                          http://web.utk.edu/~kwoodruf/woodruff.htm
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