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tc-list Ex 3.14

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  • Burkenstock
    I am currently engaged in a philological and hermeneutical discussion concerning Ex. 3.14. Can anyone tell me or guide me to some good resources on how to
    Message 1 of 6 , Apr 21, 1998
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      I am currently engaged in a philological and hermeneutical discussion concerning
      Ex. 3.14. Can anyone tell me or guide me to some good resources on how to
      translate "I am who/what I am". I've got the LXX, Vulgate, and a variety of
      English translations, but sadly I don't know Hebrew yet. HELP!!!

      philologically bound,
      Burke

      --
      Burke Gerstenschlager
      orpheus@...
      http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~charis

      "I will try to express myself in some mode of life or art as freely as I can and as wholly as I can,
      using for my defence the only arms I allow myself to use - silence, exile, and cunning.
      - Stephen Dedalus _A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man_
    • Franz Schredl
      Burke, Rolf Furuli gave some very good insight. This is one word in Hebrew [Ehyey] and could be rendered I shall become. LXX reads [ho On], The existing
      Message 2 of 6 , Apr 22, 1998
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        Burke,

        Rolf Furuli gave some very good insight. This is one word in Hebrew
        [Ehyey] and could be rendered "I shall become." LXX reads [ho On],
        "The existing One." VG reads [Qui est] "He who is." Both really do
        not convey the full sense of [Ehyey].

        As Rolf stated the Hebrew really points to the future, the ability of
        God to become anything to anyone, so it could be translated "I shall
        prove to be what I shall prove to be."

        Cheers!
        Franz

        > Ex. 3.14. Can anyone tell me or guide me to some good resources on how to
        > translate "I am who/what I am". I've got the LXX, Vulgate, and a variety of
        > English translations, but sadly I don't know Hebrew yet. HELP!!!
      • Rolf Furuli
        Burke Gerstenschlager writes ... Dear Burke, You may want to consult Botterweck/Ringgren, Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament, III:369- about hyh.
        Message 3 of 6 , Apr 22, 1998
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          Burke Gerstenschlager writes

          >I am currently engaged in a philological and hermeneutical discussion
          >concerning
          >Ex. 3.14. Can anyone tell me or guide me to some good resources on how to
          >translate "I am who/what I am". I've got the LXX, Vulgate, and a variety of
          >English translations, but sadly I don't know Hebrew yet. HELP!!!
          >

          Dear Burke,

          You may want to consult Botterweck/Ringgren, "Theological Dictionary of the
          Old Testament, III:369- about hyh.

          Three notes on translation:

          (1) The verb hyh in the imperfect (as in Ex 3:14) almost always has future
          meaning. I am aware of only three passages with a possible present
          meaning: Ruth 2:13, Job 12.4 and 17:6. The usual present tense used in
          English versions is, from a philological point of view, very strange.

          (2) The verb hyh is for the most part not used as copula (linking verb) as
          is the Greek EIMI. Illuminating this is the fact that apart from
          consecutive forms, hyh occurs 493 times in the OT while EIMI occurs 6469
          times in the LXX.

          (3) There is no Greek verb corresponding to hyh, and that may be the reason
          why hO WN is used in the LXX. When a "dramatic" effect is connected with a
          word in the source language but there is no such word in the target
          language, modern translators often try to express the effect by another
          word in the neigborhood. This may have been the reason why the LXX
          translator chose hO WN, because happening and becoming is connected with
          hyh rather than just being. A present participle can cover both the present
          time and the future, a future participle would just cover the future. The
          LXX translator did not manage to convey the right *time* of the verb,
          (translation is often compromise) but he chose the best fit, which in his
          eyes was hO WN. If this is true, the rendition hO WN can be viewed as a
          translation of *both* occurrences of hyh - the "dramatic" effect caused by
          both occurrences of the verb is sought conveyed through the present
          participle, and EIMI in the LXX clause is just grammatical filling (copula).


          Regards
          Rolf

          Rolf Furuli
          Lecturer in Semitic languges
          University of Oslo
        • Mark Gipe
          Message 4 of 6 , Apr 22, 1998
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            Dear Burke

            On the Hebrew verb "ehyeh" at Ex 3:14 it is the first person future tense
            form of the verb "Hayah" , meaning "to be" so it means "I will be". If you
            want to say "I will be in Jerusalem tomorrow" you say "ehyeh beYerushalayim
            machar". But don't take my word for it! Here is a list of everyplace that it
            is found in the Tanah. Look them up! You will find the right meaning! ( only
            in Ex 3:14 do translators tranlate it "I am" )

            Ex 3:12; Ex 3:14; Ex 4:12&15; Dt31:23; Jos 1:5 & 3:7; Jud 6:16; 1Sam 18:18;
            1 Sam 23:17; 2Sam 7:14 & 15:34 & 16:18 & 16:19; Isa 3:7 & 47:7;
            Jer 11:4 & 30:22 & 24:7 & 31:1 & 32:38; Ez 11:20 & 14:11 & 37:23 & 34:24 &
            36:28; Hos 1:9 & 14:6; Zech 2:9 & 8:8; Ps 50:21; Job 3:16 & 10:19 & 12:4 & 17:6;
            Cant 1:7; Ruth 2:13; 1Ch 17:13 & 28:6

            ( numbers are from the Hebrew Bible not the English )

            Have fun!

            If you have a fax # I will fax you a paper I wrote on this and also one a
            friend of mine wrote on this verse.

            Mark Gipe
            gipe@...





            At 05:36 PM 4/21/98 -0500, you wrote:
            >I am currently engaged in a philological and hermeneutical discussion
            concerning
            >Ex. 3.14. Can anyone tell me or guide me to some good resources on how to
            >translate "I am who/what I am". I've got the LXX, Vulgate, and a variety of
            >English translations, but sadly I don't know Hebrew yet. HELP!!!
            >
            >philologically bound,
            >Burke
            >
            >--
            >Burke Gerstenschlager
            >orpheus@...
            >http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~charis
            >
            >"I will try to express myself in some mode of life or art as freely as I
            can and as wholly as I can,
            >using for my defence the only arms I allow myself to use - silence, exile,
            and cunning.
            > - Stephen Dedalus _A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man_
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Pedro Goncalves
            ... Try Tryggve Mettinger, (Swedish titl Namnet och Närvaron ; has been translated to English but I don t know under what title. Pedro
            Message 5 of 6 , Apr 22, 1998
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              >I am currently engaged in a philological and hermeneutical discussion
              >concerning
              >Ex. 3.14. Can anyone tell me or guide me to some good resources on how to
              >translate "I am who/what I am". I've got the LXX, Vulgate, and a variety of
              >English translations, but sadly I don't know Hebrew yet. HELP!!!


              Try Tryggve Mettinger, (Swedish titl ''Namnet och Närvaron''; has been
              translated to English but I don't know under what title.

              Pedro
            • Dierk Vandenberg
              ... Von: Mark Gipe An: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Datum: Mittwoch, 22. April 1998 19:48 Betreff:
              Message 6 of 6 , Apr 26, 1998
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                -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
                Von: Mark Gipe <gipe@...>
                An: tc-list@... <tc-list@...>
                Datum: Mittwoch, 22. April 1998 19:48
                Betreff: Re: tc-list Ex 3.14


                >Dear Burke
                >
                >On the Hebrew verb "ehyeh" at Ex 3:14 it is the first person future tense
                >form of the verb "Hayah" , meaning "to be" so it means "I will be".
                [snip]
                ( only
                >(only in Ex 3:14 do translators tranlate it "I am" )

                >Mark Gipe


                ----------------------------

                Well done Mark,
                (Greetings, Rolf!)


                And it goes like this:

                I WILL BECOME, WHO I WILL BECOME

                That's future orientated eternal presence of the deity!
                But since Jerome scholars (have to) understand it as God's BEING FROM
                HIMSELF
                though the Torah knows no verb "to be" in the sense of an inactive
                existence, a perception first of Greek philosophy.

                "Who is the greater fool? The fool? or the fool who follows?"

                Regards,
                Dierk

                __________________________________
                Dr. rer. nat. Dierk Vandenberg
                H. Heine University Duesseldorf

                Homepage http://privat.schlund.de/haGalil
                Mailbox : haGalil@...
                Mailing Lists: q-sayings-l@...
                __________________________________
                I'm afraid of no scholarly ghost
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