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Re: tc-list Job 4:11 LXX

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  • Maurice A. O'Sullivan
    ... There are three citations in Lampe [ 889a] for patristic use of MURMHKOLEWN including one from the commentary on Job 4:11 of Olympiodorus Alexandrinus.
    Message 1 of 8 , Apr 1, 1998
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      At 11:10 28/03/98 -7000, you wrote:
      >I received the following question and have no idea what the answer
      >is. Does anyone have any insight as to why the translator apparently
      >coined this word? I haven't even been able to find it in LSJ.
      >
      >> Do you have an explanation as to why, in Job 4:11, the LXX has a
      >>marginal rendering of "ant-lion" for the Hebrew word for "lion"?
      >
      >All I can find out is that the word does indeed mean "ant-lion." The
      >question is, what's an "ant-lion" and why did LXX use that term here?

      There are three citations in Lampe [ 889a] for patristic use of
      MURMHKOLEWN
      including one from the commentary on Job 4:11 of Olympiodorus Alexandrinus.

      Also a ref. to Germanus I of Constantinople

      Regards,
      Maurice
    • alexander.mirkovic@vanderbilt.edu
      Message 2 of 8 , Apr 2, 1998
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        Dear list:

        It is very hard to tell what kind of animal was MYRMHKOLEWN.
        This is how I proceed in similar cases. I hope it will be of some
        help.

        There are several compounds of this kind in Greek. For example,
        KAMHLOPARDALH means "giraffe" or STROYTHOKAMHLO means
        ostrich, or LEOPARDALH which is obviously leopard. (H KAMHLA is
        the camel, the adjective O PARDALOS means motley, mottled, spotted,
        pied, varicolored, TO STROYTHION is the sparrow). The most famous
        compound is probably HIPPOPOTAMOS - horse of the river.

        From here one can get the logic behind the compounds in Greek. The
        compound represents a species which has something from one and
        something from the other term in the compound.

        Most of these compounds represent "exotic" animals (of course what
        Greeks considered exotic), or animals that the Greeks rarely saw
        around in their homeland.

        What is MYRMHKOLEWN ant+ leon, however, I do not know.

        Best wishes!

        Alexander
      • Jack Kilmon
        ... An ant lion is a predatory insect that is indigenous to finr sandy areas. the larva scoops out a bowl shaped crater in the sand and buries itself just
        Message 3 of 8 , Apr 2, 1998
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          alexander.mirkovic@... wrote:
          >
          > Dear list:
          >
          > It is very hard to tell what kind of animal was MYRMHKOLEWN.
          > This is how I proceed in similar cases. I hope it will be of some
          > help.
          >
          > There are several compounds of this kind in Greek. For example,
          > KAMHLOPARDALH means "giraffe" or STROYTHOKAMHLO means
          > ostrich, or LEOPARDALH which is obviously leopard. (H KAMHLA is
          > the camel, the adjective O PARDALOS means motley, mottled, spotted,
          > pied, varicolored, TO STROYTHION is the sparrow). The most famous
          > compound is probably HIPPOPOTAMOS - horse of the river.
          >
          > >From here one can get the logic behind the compounds in Greek. The
          > compound represents a species which has something from one and
          > something from the other term in the compound.
          >
          > Most of these compounds represent "exotic" animals (of course what
          > Greeks considered exotic), or animals that the Greeks rarely saw
          > around in their homeland.
          >
          > What is MYRMHKOLEWN ant+ leon, however, I do not know.

          An ant lion is a predatory insect that is indigenous to
          finr sandy areas. the larva 'scoops' out a bowl shaped crater in the
          sand and buries itself just below the surface at the bottom.
          When an ant, or other insect, falls in the crater, the ant lion
          emerges with it's huge mandibles and grabs the insect. The adult
          looks very much like a dragonfly. The family is Myrmeleontidae.

          Jack

          D’man dith laych idneh d’nishMA nishMA
          Jack Kilmon (jpman@...)


          http://scriptorium.accesscomm.net
        • Jonathan Dixon
          Koine Grek Mailing List? That sounds interesting, can you send details? In Christ, Jonathan ... can and as wholly as I can, using for my defence the only arms
          Message 4 of 8 , Apr 2, 1998
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            Koine Grek Mailing List? That sounds interesting, can you send details?

            In Christ,
            Jonathan

            At 04:33 PM 4/1/98 -0600, you wrote:
            >I asked my fellow Hellenists on the Koine Greek mailing list and they had
            >two good answers. They are as follows:
            >
            >There is more about this in the revised supplement of LSJ. Cf. also LSJ
            >s.v.
            >MYRMHX II. It appears there that MYRMHX was used not only in the sense
            >'ant' but
            >also referring to a fabulous animal of India. LSJ refers to Herodotus
            >3.102,
            >Strabo 2.1.9 (gold-digging MYRMHKES), 16.4.15 (lions called MYRMHKES)
            >etc. The
            >Job passage was given a number of allegorical interpretations by
            >Christian
            >writers (Didymus Caecus, John Chrysostom, Photius; cf. TLG), but the
            >translator
            >of Job is likely to have had the same concept as Herodotus and Strabo in
            >his
            >mind.
            >
            >Best wishes
            >
            >Jerker Blomqvist, professor of Greek language and literature, Lund
            >University
            >
            >AND this one...
            >
            >Howere, after recalling where I have read on this animal, I consulted
            >_Physiologus_ (there
            >are many versions and recensions, I consulted a critical edition of one
            >Slavonic version, where
            >comparison with Greek, Armenian and Ethiopian recensions is given). So,
            >now
            >I know well
            >that MYRMHKOLEWN is an animal having the face part of body of his father
            >lion, and another
            >part from his mother ant. He perished (Job 4:9) because, having such
            >parents, he was neither
            >predatory nor herbivorous.
            >
            >NB. The stuff of _Physiologus_ may taken as going back to IVth century,
            >but
            >some or many
            >motifs may be much more earlier. A Jewish-Christian background of this
            >book
            >was already
            >noted. So, it can reflect the same tradition as Job LXX.
            >
            >So, it is important to know, was the MYRMHX of India herbivorous or not?
            >
            >Basil Lourie
            >
            >St.Petersburg Society for
            >Byzantine and Slavic Studies
            >
            >So I hope that helps the discussion on the mysterious "ant-lion" of Job.
            >
            >See ya,
            >Burke Gerstenschlager
            >
            >--
            >"I will try to express myself in some mode of life or art as freely as I
            can and as wholly as I can, using for my defence the only arms I allow
            myself to use - silence, exile, and cunning.
            > - Stephen Dedalus _A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man_
            >
            >
            >
            >
            ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
            If any man thinks that he knows anything, he knows not yet as he ought to
            know; but if any man loves God, the same is known by him." (1 Cor. 8:2-3)
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            Jonathan M. Dixon
            (Student, Atlantic Baptist University)

            c/o Atlantic Baptist University
            Box 6004 Moncton, NB, Canada
            E1C 9L7

            dylan-j@...
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            My Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/3342/
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