Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: tc-list Job 4:11 LXX

Expand Messages
  • Burkenstock
    I asked my fellow Hellenists on the Koine Greek mailing list and they had two good answers. They are as follows: There is more about this in the revised
    Message 1 of 8 , Apr 1, 1998
      I asked my fellow Hellenists on the Koine Greek mailing list and they had
      two good answers. They are as follows:

      There is more about this in the revised supplement of LSJ. Cf. also LSJ
      s.v.
      MYRMHX II. It appears there that MYRMHX was used not only in the sense
      'ant' but
      also referring to a fabulous animal of India. LSJ refers to Herodotus
      3.102,
      Strabo 2.1.9 (gold-digging MYRMHKES), 16.4.15 (lions called MYRMHKES)
      etc. The
      Job passage was given a number of allegorical interpretations by
      Christian
      writers (Didymus Caecus, John Chrysostom, Photius; cf. TLG), but the
      translator
      of Job is likely to have had the same concept as Herodotus and Strabo in
      his
      mind.

      Best wishes

      Jerker Blomqvist, professor of Greek language and literature, Lund
      University

      AND this one...

      Howere, after recalling where I have read on this animal, I consulted
      _Physiologus_ (there
      are many versions and recensions, I consulted a critical edition of one
      Slavonic version, where
      comparison with Greek, Armenian and Ethiopian recensions is given). So,
      now
      I know well
      that MYRMHKOLEWN is an animal having the face part of body of his father
      lion, and another
      part from his mother ant. He perished (Job 4:9) because, having such
      parents, he was neither
      predatory nor herbivorous.

      NB. The stuff of _Physiologus_ may taken as going back to IVth century,
      but
      some or many
      motifs may be much more earlier. A Jewish-Christian background of this
      book
      was already
      noted. So, it can reflect the same tradition as Job LXX.

      So, it is important to know, was the MYRMHX of India herbivorous or not?

      Basil Lourie

      St.Petersburg Society for
      Byzantine and Slavic Studies

      So I hope that helps the discussion on the mysterious "ant-lion" of Job.

      See ya,
      Burke Gerstenschlager

      --
      "I will try to express myself in some mode of life or art as freely as I can and as wholly as I can, using for my defence the only arms I allow myself to use - silence, exile, and cunning.
      - Stephen Dedalus _A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man_
    • Maurice A. O'Sullivan
      ... There are three citations in Lampe [ 889a] for patristic use of MURMHKOLEWN including one from the commentary on Job 4:11 of Olympiodorus Alexandrinus.
      Message 2 of 8 , Apr 1, 1998
        At 11:10 28/03/98 -7000, you wrote:
        >I received the following question and have no idea what the answer
        >is. Does anyone have any insight as to why the translator apparently
        >coined this word? I haven't even been able to find it in LSJ.
        >
        >> Do you have an explanation as to why, in Job 4:11, the LXX has a
        >>marginal rendering of "ant-lion" for the Hebrew word for "lion"?
        >
        >All I can find out is that the word does indeed mean "ant-lion." The
        >question is, what's an "ant-lion" and why did LXX use that term here?

        There are three citations in Lampe [ 889a] for patristic use of
        MURMHKOLEWN
        including one from the commentary on Job 4:11 of Olympiodorus Alexandrinus.

        Also a ref. to Germanus I of Constantinople

        Regards,
        Maurice
      • alexander.mirkovic@vanderbilt.edu
        Message 3 of 8 , Apr 2, 1998
          Dear list:

          It is very hard to tell what kind of animal was MYRMHKOLEWN.
          This is how I proceed in similar cases. I hope it will be of some
          help.

          There are several compounds of this kind in Greek. For example,
          KAMHLOPARDALH means "giraffe" or STROYTHOKAMHLO means
          ostrich, or LEOPARDALH which is obviously leopard. (H KAMHLA is
          the camel, the adjective O PARDALOS means motley, mottled, spotted,
          pied, varicolored, TO STROYTHION is the sparrow). The most famous
          compound is probably HIPPOPOTAMOS - horse of the river.

          From here one can get the logic behind the compounds in Greek. The
          compound represents a species which has something from one and
          something from the other term in the compound.

          Most of these compounds represent "exotic" animals (of course what
          Greeks considered exotic), or animals that the Greeks rarely saw
          around in their homeland.

          What is MYRMHKOLEWN ant+ leon, however, I do not know.

          Best wishes!

          Alexander
        • Jack Kilmon
          ... An ant lion is a predatory insect that is indigenous to finr sandy areas. the larva scoops out a bowl shaped crater in the sand and buries itself just
          Message 4 of 8 , Apr 2, 1998
            alexander.mirkovic@... wrote:
            >
            > Dear list:
            >
            > It is very hard to tell what kind of animal was MYRMHKOLEWN.
            > This is how I proceed in similar cases. I hope it will be of some
            > help.
            >
            > There are several compounds of this kind in Greek. For example,
            > KAMHLOPARDALH means "giraffe" or STROYTHOKAMHLO means
            > ostrich, or LEOPARDALH which is obviously leopard. (H KAMHLA is
            > the camel, the adjective O PARDALOS means motley, mottled, spotted,
            > pied, varicolored, TO STROYTHION is the sparrow). The most famous
            > compound is probably HIPPOPOTAMOS - horse of the river.
            >
            > >From here one can get the logic behind the compounds in Greek. The
            > compound represents a species which has something from one and
            > something from the other term in the compound.
            >
            > Most of these compounds represent "exotic" animals (of course what
            > Greeks considered exotic), or animals that the Greeks rarely saw
            > around in their homeland.
            >
            > What is MYRMHKOLEWN ant+ leon, however, I do not know.

            An ant lion is a predatory insect that is indigenous to
            finr sandy areas. the larva 'scoops' out a bowl shaped crater in the
            sand and buries itself just below the surface at the bottom.
            When an ant, or other insect, falls in the crater, the ant lion
            emerges with it's huge mandibles and grabs the insect. The adult
            looks very much like a dragonfly. The family is Myrmeleontidae.

            Jack

            D’man dith laych idneh d’nishMA nishMA
            Jack Kilmon (jpman@...)


            http://scriptorium.accesscomm.net
          • Jonathan Dixon
            Koine Grek Mailing List? That sounds interesting, can you send details? In Christ, Jonathan ... can and as wholly as I can, using for my defence the only arms
            Message 5 of 8 , Apr 2, 1998
              Koine Grek Mailing List? That sounds interesting, can you send details?

              In Christ,
              Jonathan

              At 04:33 PM 4/1/98 -0600, you wrote:
              >I asked my fellow Hellenists on the Koine Greek mailing list and they had
              >two good answers. They are as follows:
              >
              >There is more about this in the revised supplement of LSJ. Cf. also LSJ
              >s.v.
              >MYRMHX II. It appears there that MYRMHX was used not only in the sense
              >'ant' but
              >also referring to a fabulous animal of India. LSJ refers to Herodotus
              >3.102,
              >Strabo 2.1.9 (gold-digging MYRMHKES), 16.4.15 (lions called MYRMHKES)
              >etc. The
              >Job passage was given a number of allegorical interpretations by
              >Christian
              >writers (Didymus Caecus, John Chrysostom, Photius; cf. TLG), but the
              >translator
              >of Job is likely to have had the same concept as Herodotus and Strabo in
              >his
              >mind.
              >
              >Best wishes
              >
              >Jerker Blomqvist, professor of Greek language and literature, Lund
              >University
              >
              >AND this one...
              >
              >Howere, after recalling where I have read on this animal, I consulted
              >_Physiologus_ (there
              >are many versions and recensions, I consulted a critical edition of one
              >Slavonic version, where
              >comparison with Greek, Armenian and Ethiopian recensions is given). So,
              >now
              >I know well
              >that MYRMHKOLEWN is an animal having the face part of body of his father
              >lion, and another
              >part from his mother ant. He perished (Job 4:9) because, having such
              >parents, he was neither
              >predatory nor herbivorous.
              >
              >NB. The stuff of _Physiologus_ may taken as going back to IVth century,
              >but
              >some or many
              >motifs may be much more earlier. A Jewish-Christian background of this
              >book
              >was already
              >noted. So, it can reflect the same tradition as Job LXX.
              >
              >So, it is important to know, was the MYRMHX of India herbivorous or not?
              >
              >Basil Lourie
              >
              >St.Petersburg Society for
              >Byzantine and Slavic Studies
              >
              >So I hope that helps the discussion on the mysterious "ant-lion" of Job.
              >
              >See ya,
              >Burke Gerstenschlager
              >
              >--
              >"I will try to express myself in some mode of life or art as freely as I
              can and as wholly as I can, using for my defence the only arms I allow
              myself to use - silence, exile, and cunning.
              > - Stephen Dedalus _A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man_
              >
              >
              >
              >
              ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
              If any man thinks that he knows anything, he knows not yet as he ought to
              know; but if any man loves God, the same is known by him." (1 Cor. 8:2-3)
              ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
              Jonathan M. Dixon
              (Student, Atlantic Baptist University)

              c/o Atlantic Baptist University
              Box 6004 Moncton, NB, Canada
              E1C 9L7

              dylan-j@...
              jdixon@...

              My Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/3342/
              My Online Bible Site: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/8373/
              -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.