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Erasmus's Latin translation

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  • BillCombs@aol.com
    ... This view that Erasmus produced a Latin translation before his 1516 Latin-Greek NT has been shown to be invalid. Andrew J. Brown has demonstrated that the
    Message 1 of 2 , Jun 30, 1997
      Helge Evensen wrote:

      >The changes he *did* introduce into Codex 2 (and the other MSS) may, in
      >fact, have been based primarily on the MSS he studied in connection with
      >his Latin translation. If that is the case, it is not even necessary to
      >assume that he gathered notes on his travels or his visits to libraries,
      >but only that he gathered information from the Greek MSS he worked with
      >when preparing his Latin text. He certainly must have had the time and
      >opportunity to do so, whether he actually did it or not.

      This view that Erasmus produced a Latin translation before his 1516
      Latin-Greek NT has been shown to be invalid. Andrew J. Brown has demonstrated
      that the early dates of certain manuscripts (two in 1509 and one in 1506)
      which contain the Vulgate and Erasmus's Latin translation apply only to the
      Vulgate. Erasmus's own Latin translation was added in the 1520s ("Date of
      Erasmus' Latin Translation of the New Testament," Transactions of the
      Cambridge Biographical Society 8-4 (1984): 351-80). I discuss all this in my
      article on Erasmus. See William W. Combs, "Erasmus and the Textus Receptus,"
      Detroit Baptist Seminary Journal 1 (Spring 1966).


      Bill Combs
      Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary
    • Mr. Helge Evensen
      ... I doubt that the view of a pre-1516 Latin translation by Erasmus has been shown to be invalid . I do not believe that Brown has demonstrated that Erasmus
      Message 2 of 2 , Jul 2, 1997
        BillCombs@... wrote:

        >
        > Helge Evensen wrote:
        >
        > >The changes he *did* introduce into Codex 2 (and the other MSS) may, in
        > >fact, have been based primarily on the MSS he studied in connection with
        > >his Latin translation. If that is the case, it is not even necessary to
        > >assume that he gathered notes on his travels or his visits to libraries,
        > >but only that he gathered information from the Greek MSS he worked with
        > >when preparing his Latin text. He certainly must have had the time and
        > >opportunity to do so, whether he actually did it or not.
        >
        > This view that Erasmus produced a Latin translation before his 1516
        > Latin-Greek NT has been shown to be invalid. Andrew J. Brown has demonstrated
        > that the early dates of certain manuscripts (two in 1509 and one in 1506)
        > which contain the Vulgate and Erasmus's Latin translation apply only to the
        > Vulgate. Erasmus's own Latin translation was added in the 1520s ("Date of
        > Erasmus' Latin Translation of the New Testament," Transactions of the
        > Cambridge Biographical Society 8-4 (1984): 351-80). I discuss all this in my
        > article on Erasmus. See William W. Combs, "Erasmus and the Textus Receptus,"
        > Detroit Baptist Seminary Journal 1 (Spring 1966).


        I doubt that the view of a pre-1516 Latin translation by Erasmus has been
        "shown to be invalid". I do not believe that Brown has demonstrated that
        Erasmus did *not* prepare or work on a Latin translation prior to 1514.
        Just because it cannot be *proved* that he made a complete NT translation
        prior to that time, it does not follow that Erasmus did not at all work
        in preparation for a future edition. He may not have translated the whole
        NT prior to 1514 (I doubt that he did). But as I have stated earlier, we
        cannot be sure about the circumstances before 1516. And I do not think
        we are able at the present to disprove the conclusions of de Jonge on
        this subject.

        Erasmus may not have intended to publish a Latin translation prior to the
        time in which Froben the printer suggested that he should do so.
        That would have explained (in part) the silence around the preparation
        of such a translation.
        It would only be natural for Erasmus to say little to nothing about the
        plans of publishing a translation that deviated from the accepted Roman
        Vulgate. We should not expect him to announce such a thing prior to the
        time of publication. It might even have been dangerous for Erasmus to
        have talked about such a translation. But once the publication is a fact,
        it cannot be stopped. Maybe that is a clue to understanding the "rushing
        out" of his first edition.

        In order for Erasmus to have worked with Greek MSS 10 to 12 years prior
        to 1514-16, I do not have to demonstrate that he had ready a complete NT
        translation prior to that time. That should be clear enough.

        In his paper, it seems that Brown did not do much more than bringing to
        light the likelihood that Erasmus did not *complete* a NT translation
        prior to 1514. In his own words:

        ".....there is no satisfactory evidence, either in his published
        writings or in the Meghen manuscripts, that Erasmus had a complete
        translation ready to hand before 1514" (p.374 of the obove mentioned
        paper).

        And:

        "But even if we grant that Erasmus, in spite of his protestations
        to the contrary, might have carried out New Testament translation work
        prior to 1514, the text of the translation which is contained in the
        Meghen manuscripts can no longer be used as evidence that he did so".
        (p.375, this quote is the concluding words of the paper).

        Without going into the context of these statements, we clearly see here
        that Brown himself did not conclude with any certainty that Erasmus did
        not work with or did not prepare a Latin translation in the years prior
        to 1514. And he grants that Erasmus collated MSS prior to 1514.

        It is not necessary to assume that Erasmus even had plans to
        publish a Latin NT in order to suggest that he collated MSS. He was,
        after all, a scholar interested in Greek MSS and Greek studies.

        But again, I must emphasize that I do not believe that I can come up with
        any *evidence* to disprove the conclusions of Brown. Besides, I owe my
        awareness of a possible pre-1514-16 Latin translation to the studies of
        de Jonge (primarily). The information I can come up with on this issue
        is therefore secondary. So I guess that if anyone on this list wish to
        contest the possibility of a pre-1514 Latin (in part) translation,
        I am not the proper person to debate.

        In 1984 (the year of Brown´s paper) de Jonge made these statements
        (quoted in one of the previous posts):

        "It is established, and generally accepted, that Erasmus had been
        working on the text of the New Testament since 1504, and had been
        studying Greek manuscripts for this purpose".

        And:

        "By 1506 at the latest Erasmus had completed his new translation
        of Paul´s epistles, and not later than 1509 he had made a new version of
        the Gospels.......".

        Since de Jonge is a specialist on Erasmian studies, I have reason to take
        his findings and conclusions seriously.


        I would like to read your article "Erasmus and the Textus Receptus".
        How can I obtain a copy of it?


        Thanks ahead.


        --
        - Mr. Helge Evensen
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