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  • Marty Daybell
    Sorry if you re not the right person to ask?
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 4, 1997
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      Sorry if you're not the right person to ask?
    • Vinton A. Dearing
      When John is capitalized in Rev. 1:4 it is because it is the first word in the text of the book. Verses 1-3 are the book s title. Vinton A. Dearing
      Message 2 of 7 , Feb 5, 1997
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        When "John" is capitalized in Rev. 1:4 it is because it is the first
        word in the text of the book. Verses 1-3 are the book's title.
        Vinton A. Dearing
      • George Kiraz
        I have a plan to compile a book of Syriac quotations. Quotations will be taken from Syriac literature, and will be in English translation. If you have
        Message 3 of 7 , Feb 5, 1997
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          I have a plan to compile a book of Syriac quotations. Quotations will be taken
          from Syriac literature, and will be in English translation. If you have
          published (or in the process of publishing) Syriac texts, homilies, memre, etc.
          in English translation, I can make use of them. Even works and papers which
          here and there quote Syriac texts are useful. Please send me references. Beter
          yet, if you have anything in electronic form, that would be most useful. All
          translation sources of course will be acknowledged.

          George Kiraz

          --
          _ _
          \\\||/// George Anton Kiraz
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        • Maurice Robinson
          ... While this might be a possible thought from within a higher-critical perspective, the manuscript evidence demonstrates precisely the opposite (see
          Message 4 of 7 , Feb 5, 1997
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            On Wed, 5 Feb 1997, Vinton A. Dearing wrote:

            > When "John" is capitalized in Rev. 1:4 it is because it is the first
            > word in the text of the book. Verses 1-3 are the book's title.

            While this might be a possible thought from within a higher-critical
            perspective, the manuscript evidence demonstrates precisely the opposite
            (see Hoskier's collation data in vol.2 of his _Concerning the Text of the
            Apocalypse_).

            While the "real" title of the book varies dramatically (Apocalypse / Apoc.
            of John / Apoc. of John the Theolog / Apoc. of John the Holy Theolog, etc.
            etc. with many varied forms and expansions), as soon as one hits
            Apoc.1:1-1:3, the main text reverts back to the "normal" pattern one finds
            in the main text of any scriptural book, with little variance among the
            MSS, and _no_ indication that 1:1-3 was specifically considered a title in
            any normal sense.

            There is _no_ basis found among the Greek MSS for the capitalization of
            "JOHN" in 1:4 -- that was purely an individual editor's decision related
            to printed editions or translations, just as with the inscription on the
            cross or "MYSTERY: BABYLON THE GREAT" in the KJV.

            _________________________________________________________________________
            Maurice A. Robinson, Ph.D. Professor of Greek and New Testament
            Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary Wake Forest, North Carolina
            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          • Ronald L. Minton
            I was cruising the textual criticism web sites today, and I came up with a question that I had been asked last year. How many manuscripts can we say for
            Message 5 of 7 , Feb 5, 1997
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              I was cruising the textual criticism web sites today, and
              I came up with a question that I had been asked last year. How many
              manuscripts can we say for certain are represented by the
              Robinson-Pierpont and the Hodges-Farstad texts?

              --
              Prof. Ron Minton: rminton@... W (417)268-6053 H 833-9581
              Baptist Bible Graduate School 628 E. Kearney St. Springfield, MO 65803
            • Maurice Robinson
              ... Based upon the data cited by Von Soden regarding his K MSS (and eliminating the MSS cited only cursorily) as well as comparing such with the Nestle-Aland
              Message 6 of 7 , Feb 5, 1997
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                On Wed, 5 Feb 1997, Ronald L. Minton wrote:

                > I was cruising the textual criticism web sites today, and
                > I came up with a question that I had been asked last year. How many
                > manuscripts can we say for certain are represented by the
                > Robinson-Pierpont and the Hodges-Farstad texts?

                Based upon the data cited by Von Soden regarding his "K" MSS (and
                eliminating the MSS cited only cursorily) as well as comparing such with
                the Nestle-Aland "M" data cited in the appendix to the 26th or 27th
                edition, one could say that a solid "K" or "M" reading generally would
                reflect a consensus of around 500 or so MSS -- quite sufficient
                statistically for establishing the dominant Byzantine Textform in most
                instances.

                I have an unpublished paper ("How Many MSS are Necessary to Establish the
                'Majority Text'?") which was distributed by the Majority Text Society some
                years back, in which I demonstrated that by using the consensus reading of
                only 13 MSS randomly selected in a sample chapter one would approach
                either the Von Soden "K" or the Nestle-Aland "M" with approximately 96%
                certainty, and that every MS added to such a pool would increase the
                percentage of agreement in moving towards the desired goal.

                Statistically I suspect that any random sampling of 100 MSS or more would
                suffice to produce a strongly Byzantine consensus text which would
                probably approach "K" or "M" with 98% or more certainty. If approximately
                500 MSS were used as the base (i.e., following the data of Von Soden and
                Nestle-Aland), I suppose 99%+ certainty should be expected in establishing
                beyond doubt nearly all of the primary readings of the Byzantine Textform
                (math and statistics majors out there might help me out on that aspect;
                someone did send me some statistical data on this point after my article
                was distributed, but I confess an inability to comprehend chi-square and
                such other niceties which lie outside of my own area of specialization).

                I should also note that at least in the case of the Robinson-Pierpont
                edition the _Text und Textwert_ series as well as IGNTP/Luke and the
                earlier IGNTP/Legg were also consulted. Of these, _Text und Textwert_ of
                course provides *all* the continuous-text Greek MS data for the variant
                cited, usually averaging around 500-600 MSS in the portions of Acts, Paul,
                and the General Epistles so far published.

                _________________________________________________________________________
                Maurice A. Robinson, Ph.D. Professor of Greek and New Testament
                Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary Wake Forest, North Carolina
                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
              • Jean VALENTIN
                Hello tc-ers! Here are some more funny features of my Arabic manuscript, Sinai Arabic 71. It s about the way it translates the Greek particle ARA (approx.
                Message 7 of 7 , Feb 6, 1997
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                  Hello tc-ers!

                  Here are some more funny features of my Arabic manuscript, Sinai Arabic
                  71. It's about the way it translates the Greek particle ARA (approx.
                  meaning "thus") in three passages.

                  The ms covers Mt 23 - Lk 5. In all that text, the Greek "ara" comes 4
                  times (Mt 24.45, Mk 4.41, Mk 11.13 and Lk 1.66). In three of these cases
                  (Mk 11.13 is the exception), my Arabic version translates it by the
                  Arabic verb _r'y_ (akin to the hebrew ra'ah).

                  Mt 24.45 man yara' dhalika 'l-(abd
                  "who sees that servant..."

                  Mk 4.41 man nara' hadha-lladhi 'l-baHr
                  "who do we see this one to whom the see..."

                  Lk 1.66 madha taruna yakun hadha al-Sabiyy
                  "what do you see is this child..."

                  Quite a strange translation! In my opinion, it is motivated by... the
                  phonetic similitude between the Greek particle and the Arabic root! Quite
                  a unique feature, isn't it? And again, it shows our translator wasn't at
                  ease with Greek as he was embarrassed with this quite rare particle.


                  _______________________________________________________________________
                  Jean Valentin - Brussels - Belgium

                  Ce qui est trop simple est faux, ce qui est trop complexe est
                  inutilisable.
                  What's too simple is wrong, what's too complex is unusable.
                  Wat te eenvoudig is, is verkeerd; wat te ingewikkeld is, is onbruikbaar.
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