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Re: Future subjunctive

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  • Maurice Robinson
    ... The problem in such a supposition (basically Aland s Byzantine Imperial Text or Westcott-Hort s Syrian Recension hypothesis) is that there is
    Message 1 of 1714 , Jan 31, 1996
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      On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, Carlton Winbery wrote:

      > Maurice Robinson wrote;

      > >The continued use and perpetuation of the Byzantine text remained centered
      > >in Greece and Asia Minor throughout the entire period of Greek MS
      > >transmission.

      > But this was a standardized regulated text and not a free flowing text
      > where later scribes were free to correct and edit according to known mss
      > but followed an ecclesiastical text.

      The problem in such a supposition (basically Aland's "Byzantine Imperial
      Text" or Westcott-Hort's "Syrian Recension" hypothesis) is that there is
      absolutely NO record of any enforced or voluntary effort to "standardize"
      the Byzantine Textform; and indeed, the multifarious variations and
      sub-groups within the K-text (e.g. K1, Kr, Kc,b Ka Kpi, etc.) point in a
      direction favoring little or no control or standardization. Basically,
      the Byzantine Text merely "continued" in the various lines of
      transmission through which it was perpetuated, with no serious effort
      toward standardization.

      The Byzantine-era scribes certainly were more precise in their copying
      than had been the more primitive scribes and monks during the period of
      the "uncontrolled popular text" in the era before AD 200 and even before
      the legitimization of Christianity under Constantine. The one benefit
      the Empire provided after Constantine was an unhurried freedom to simply
      perpetuate and multiply the manuscript copies.

      > In the later part of the period it
      > was virtually limited to the old Kingdom of Nicaea in a very limited area.

      In the later part of which period? The 12th-15th centuries, or something
      earlier. Basically, so long as Greek was spoken and understood as a
      liturgical language within Greek monasteries (whether in Italy, Greece,
      Asia Minor, or Palestine), the basic Byzantine Textform would continue to
      be perpetuated by the scribes in a manner which remained fairly
      even-handed for over a thousand years.

      > The editions of Erasmus plus those of Beza and Stephanus did bring the
      > Greek closer to the Vulgate, note the Comma Iohannum.

      Oh, absolutely. Erasmus especially added in a number of readings which
      lacked Greek MS support from the Vulgate. But this has no bearing on
      your initial claim, which was arguing that the influence of the Byzantine
      text went the other direction, and affected Western Biblical
      Christianity. But, as you note, on the contrary, it was Latin Biblical
      Christianity which affected (corrupted) the Byzantine Greek itself in the
      TR editions.

      > MacGregor and
      > Bratton have also talked of influences earlier than that. In the period
      > right before the reformation, there is some evidence that the Latin
      > affected some Byzantine mss, eg. the 12th century mss where I John 5:7-8 is
      > translated out of Latin into the margin in Greek with no articles. There
      > is strong evidence of influence from Latin to Greek if not from Greek to
      > Latin.

      Again, exactly to my point on this matter. Evidence that the Greek MSS
      or text affected Latin MSS in the West after the emergence of the printed
      Greek text so far as I know is utterly lacking. The most evidence I
      think can be alleged is some cross-pollination among bilingual
      Greco-Latin codices, such as Bezae.
    • Julian Goldberg
      The complete Hebrew Scriptures (Hebrew Bible) or TANAKH (Torah-Law, Neviim-Prophets, Ketuvim-Writings) based on the Masoretic Hebrew text with vowels and
      Message 1714 of 1714 , Feb 4, 1997
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        The complete Hebrew Scriptures (Hebrew Bible) or TANAKH (Torah-Law,
        Neviim-Prophets, Ketuvim-Writings) based on the Masoretic Hebrew text
        with vowels and cantillation marks in one complete compact black hard
        covered volume which measures 12 cm x 19 cm with over 1360 pages that
        have been arranged according to traditional chapter and verse divisions
        along with larger Hebrew letter printing and thicker paper pages for a
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        Julian Goldberg, 260 Adelaide St., E., # 215, Toronto, Ontario, Canada
        M5A 1N0.

        Thanks.
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