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Re: Re: [tatar-l] merhaba

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  • yuneli@sbcglobal.net
    Hi Helen, There are many Tatar groups whose language is close to Turkish spoken in Turkey. Crimean Tatars comes to my mind as one of these groups. Also most of
    Message 1 of 20 , Jan 7, 2006

      Hi Helen,

      There are many Tatar groups whose language is close to Turkish spoken in Turkey. Crimean Tatars comes to my mind as one of these groups. Also most of the diaspora Tatars live in Turkey, or have lived there before moving to other countries. Therefore, most of the diaspora Tatars speak Turkish. Many Turks and Europeans who know these Tatars assume that all Tatars can speak and understand Turkish.

      I'm one of these Mishar Tatars who grew up in Turkey before moving to the United States. Unfortunately my Tatar language ability comes from hearing my parents and their friends speak in Tatar, and not through schooling. Therefore, my Turkish language ability is better than my Tatar language skills.

      However, I see that all Turkic groups making an effort to understand each other better, perhaps we could do our part my posting some of our messages in both Tatar and Turkish, or one of these languages and in English.

      Sincerely,

      Kamil Yuneli

      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 10:03 AM
      Subject: Re: Re: [tatar-l] merhaba

      Pardon my intrusion as a non-Tatar, but what makes you think that Tatars have to understand Turkish?
       
      Xormet belan,
       
      Helen
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 8:11 PM
      Subject: SV: Re: [tatar-l] merhaba

      I am sory bud if you are tatar than you haft to understand turkish to, now i gat a chock,can you please tell me are you tatar or not ?


      Irek Bikkinin <irek@...> skrev:
      Ahmet,
       
      Sorry, I could not understand you. No stops, no commas...
      I am sure Shozab also will not be able to understand you.
      Ahmet, could you please give us main ideas of your message in English (or Tatar, or Russian)?
       
      Irek.
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 9:20 PM
      Subject: [tatar-l] merhaba

      Sevgili irek Bikkinin shozab arkadasimizin  gönderdigi mail beni sahsen dusundurmeye itti diyebilirim nedenmi? aciklayayim cunki ben kendim isvecte yasiyan bir turk olarak burda bazi tarih bilgisinden yoksun  veya  öyle bilmek  ve yansitmak icindirki canim ve cigerim olan ve katiksiz turk olan sevgili tatar insanimizi burda yani isvecte hindistandan gelen cingeneler diye yansitmaya  ve öyle bilmek istemeleri beni nerde ise cilgina döndurmustu simdi  sunuda söylemek isterimki cingeneye karsi benim hic bir zaman art niyetim olmamistir olmazda fakat su bir gercektir ki kimsenin bizlere cingene demelerine musade edemem biz turkler yani tatarlar orta asyali gururlu ve kulturlu bir milletiz dolayisi ile size mail gönderen shozab arkadasin ne kadar dogru veye yanlis fikirler ve dusunceler yansitmak gibi bir his dogdu  kendimde belki  hatali dusunuyor olabilirim  ki eger öyle isem bundan dolayi sizlerden ve shozab arkadastan özur dilerim:
      sevgiler Ahmet Özkan:

      Irek Bikkinin <irek@...> skrev:
      Dear Shozab,
       
      How do know that your ancestors were Tatars?
      Family legends? Some papers, documents?
      When had your ancestors come to India? From where?
      Where in India do you live now?
       
      Regards,
      Irek.
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 11:24 AM
      Subject: [tatar-l] salam

      hello all,
      iam shozab rahman tatar. iam from india. my forefathers and many more came here a long time ago. we have forgotten our culture, language, even we have startedlooking like them. but we are very much tatars by heart. iam always eager to know my culture people. i would be glad to hear from my people.
      salam
        

      Yahoo! Photos – NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo.


    • ahmet özkan
      SEVGILI KAREDESIM ÖNCELIKLE MUBAREK KURBAN BAYRAMINIZI VE YENI YILINIZI KUTLAR BASARILARINIZIN DEVAMINI TANRIDAN TALEP EDERIM. YAZINIZ BENI COK MUTLU ETTI
      Message 2 of 20 , Jan 7, 2006
        SEVGILI KAREDESIM ÖNCELIKLE MUBAREK KURBAN BAYRAMINIZI VE YENI YILINIZI KUTLAR BASARILARINIZIN  DEVAMINI TANRIDAN  TALEP EDERIM. YAZINIZ BENI COK MUTLU ETTI NEDENMI TABIKI TATAR KARDESLERIMIZ ILE AYNI KADERIN VE KANIN SAHIBIYIZ, BEN SAHSEN ISTANBUL KADIKÖY GÖSTEPEDE BUYUDUM ARKADASLARIMIZIN ARASINDA TATAR ASLI ARKADASLARIM COK IDI, NOGAY TATARLARINDAN TANSU, KIRIM TATARLARINDAN ATA ,TOLGAY GURBUZ VE BUNUN GIBI BIR COK ARKADASIMIZ ILE BIRLIK TE BUYUDUK TABII BU ARKADASLARIMIN HEPSI TURKIYE DOGUMLU OLUP DEDELRI VEYA BAZILARININ BABALARI  KIMISI KIRIMDAN KIMISI DAGISTANDAN GELMISLER BURDA BEN SUNU DEMEK ISTIYORUMKI BIZ DUNYA TURKLERI KESINLIK ILE  ILISKILERIMIZI GUCLEDIRIP KULTUREL VE EKONOMIK BAKIMDAN  BIRLIK KURMAMIZ GEREKIYOR DERIM ,BU YAPMAMIZ   GEREKLI DIYE DUSUNUYORUM VE TEKNOLOJININ BU GUZEL HARIKASI OLAN INTERNET BIZLERI BIRAZ DAHA BIRBIRIMIZE YAKINLASTIRDI  BEN BUNDAN DOLAYI COK SEVINCLIYIM SIZLERE TEKRAR SELAM EDER  MAILLERINIZI BEKLERIM.

        yuneli@... skrev:
        Hi Helen,
        There are many Tatar groups whose language is close to Turkish spoken in Turkey. Crimean Tatars comes to my mind as one of these groups. Also most of the diaspora Tatars live in Turkey, or have lived there before moving to other countries. Therefore, most of the diaspora Tatars speak Turkish. Many Turks and Europeans who know these Tatars assume that all Tatars can speak and understand Turkish.
        I'm one of these Mishar Tatars who grew up in Turkey before moving to the United States. Unfortunately my Tatar language ability comes from hearing my parents and their friends speak in Tatar, and not through schooling. Therefore, my Turkish language ability is better than my Tatar language skills.
        However, I see that all Turkic groups making an effort to understand each other better, perhaps we could do our part my posting some of our messages in both Tatar and Turkish, or one of these languages and in English.
        Sincerely,
        Kamil Yuneli
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 10:03 AM
        Subject: Re: Re: [tatar-l] merhaba

        Pardon my intrusion as a non-Tatar, but what makes you think that Tatars have to understand Turkish?
         
        Xormet belan,
         
        Helen
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 8:11 PM
        Subject: SV: Re: [tatar-l] merhaba

        I am sory bud if you are tatar than you haft to understand turkish to, now i gat a chock,can you please tell me are you tatar or not ?


        Irek Bikkinin <irek@...> skrev:
        Ahmet,
         
        Sorry, I could not understand you. No stops, no commas...
        I am sure Shozab also will not be able to understand you.
        Ahmet, could you please give us main ideas of your message in English (or Tatar, or Russian)?
         
        Irek.
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 9:20 PM
        Subject: [tatar-l] merhaba

        Sevgili irek Bikkinin shozab arkadasimizin  gönderdigi mail beni sahsen dusundurmeye itti diyebilirim nedenmi? aciklayayim cunki ben kendim isvecte yasiyan bir turk olarak burda bazi tarih bilgisinden yoksun  veya  öyle bilmek  ve yansitmak icindirki canim ve cigerim olan ve katiksiz turk olan sevgili tatar insanimizi burda yani isvecte hindistandan gelen cingeneler diye yansitmaya  ve öyle bilmek istemeleri beni nerde ise cilgina döndurmustu simdi  sunuda söylemek isterimki cingeneye karsi benim hic bir zaman art niyetim olmamistir olmazda fakat su bir gercektir ki kimsenin bizlere cingene demelerine musade edemem biz turkler yani tatarlar orta asyali gururlu ve kulturlu bir milletiz dolayisi ile size mail gönderen shozab arkadasin ne kadar dogru veye yanlis fikirler ve dusunceler yansitmak gibi bir his dogdu  kendimde belki  hatali dusunuyor olabilirim  ki eger öyle isem bundan dolayi sizlerden ve shozab arkadastan özur dilerim:
        sevgiler Ahmet Özkan:

        Irek Bikkinin <irek@...> skrev:
        Dear Shozab,
         
        How do know that your ancestors were Tatars?
        Family legends? Some papers, documents?
        When had your ancestors come to India? From where?
        Where in India do you live now?
         
        Regards,
        Irek.
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 11:24 AM
        Subject: [tatar-l] salam

        hello all,
        iam shozab rahman tatar. iam from india. my forefathers and many more came here a long time ago. we have forgotten our culture, language, even we have startedlooking like them. but we are very much tatars by heart. iam always eager to know my culture people. i would be glad to hear from my people.
        salam
          

        Yahoo! Photos – NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo.



      • ahmet özkan
        TO MSR XORMET BELAN. I AM SORY BUD MY ENGLISH IS NOT VERRY WELL BUD I CAN ANSWER TO YOU, I AM A TATAR TO,. Helen Faller skrev: Pardon my
        Message 3 of 20 , Jan 7, 2006
          TO MSR XORMET BELAN.
          I AM SORY BUD MY ENGLISH IS NOT VERRY WELL BUD I CAN ANSWER TO YOU, I AM A TATAR TO,.

          Helen Faller <hmfaller@...> skrev:
          Pardon my intrusion as a non-Tatar, but what makes you think that Tatars have to understand Turkish?
           
          Xormet belan,
           
          Helen
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 8:11 PM
          Subject: SV: Re: [tatar-l] merhaba

          I am sory bud if you are tatar than you haft to understand turkish to, now i gat a chock,can you please tell me are you tatar or not ?


          Irek Bikkinin <irek@...> skrev:
          Ahmet,
           
          Sorry, I could not understand you. No stops, no commas...
          I am sure Shozab also will not be able to understand you.
          Ahmet, could you please give us main ideas of your message in English (or Tatar, or Russian)?
           
          Irek.
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 9:20 PM
          Subject: [tatar-l] merhaba

          Sevgili irek Bikkinin shozab arkadasimizin  gönderdigi mail beni sahsen dusundurmeye itti diyebilirim nedenmi? aciklayayim cunki ben kendim isvecte yasiyan bir turk olarak burda bazi tarih bilgisinden yoksun  veya  öyle bilmek  ve yansitmak icindirki canim ve cigerim olan ve katiksiz turk olan sevgili tatar insanimizi burda yani isvecte hindistandan gelen cingeneler diye yansitmaya  ve öyle bilmek istemeleri beni nerde ise cilgina döndurmustu simdi  sunuda söylemek isterimki cingeneye karsi benim hic bir zaman art niyetim olmamistir olmazda fakat su bir gercektir ki kimsenin bizlere cingene demelerine musade edemem biz turkler yani tatarlar orta asyali gururlu ve kulturlu bir milletiz dolayisi ile size mail gönderen shozab arkadasin ne kadar dogru veye yanlis fikirler ve dusunceler yansitmak gibi bir his dogdu  kendimde belki  hatali dusunuyor olabilirim  ki eger öyle isem bundan dolayi sizlerden ve shozab arkadastan özur dilerim:
          sevgiler Ahmet Özkan:

          Irek Bikkinin <irek@...> skrev:
          Dear Shozab,
           
          How do know that your ancestors were Tatars?
          Family legends? Some papers, documents?
          When had your ancestors come to India? From where?
          Where in India do you live now?
           
          Regards,
          Irek.
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 11:24 AM
          Subject: [tatar-l] salam

          hello all,
          iam shozab rahman tatar. iam from india. my forefathers and many more came here a long time ago. we have forgotten our culture, language, even we have startedlooking like them. but we are very much tatars by heart. iam always eager to know my culture people. i would be glad to hear from my people.
          salam
            

          Yahoo! Photos – NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo.



        • Helen Faller
          Dear Kamil, With all due respect, you have misunderstood my query. I am very well aware not only of the linguistic links between various Turkic languages, but
          Message 4 of 20 , Jan 7, 2006
            Dear Kamil,
             
            With all due respect, you have misunderstood my query. I am very well aware not only of the linguistic links between various Turkic languages, but also of how those languages circulate in diaspora communities. Rather, I am inquiring about the near-imperialist presumption of Anatolian Turks who consider all other Turkic languages to be but dialects of their standard.
             
            I don't wish to inject a dose of marja kebek venom into the list. At the same time, it becomes tiresome to read post after post from Anatolians who write in Turkish presuming that Tatars are some kind of little brothers who have an obligation to know their language.
             
            Sabiriginiz ochen rahmet.
             
            Xushegez,
             
            Helen
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 2:09 PM
            Subject: Re: Re: [tatar-l] merhaba

            Hi Helen,

            There are many Tatar groups whose language is close to Turkish spoken in Turkey. Crimean Tatars comes to my mind as one of these groups. Also most of the diaspora Tatars live in Turkey, or have lived there before moving to other countries. Therefore, most of the diaspora Tatars speak Turkish. Many Turks and Europeans who know these Tatars assume that all Tatars can speak and understand Turkish.

            I'm one of these Mishar Tatars who grew up in Turkey before moving to the United States. Unfortunately my Tatar language ability comes from hearing my parents and their friends speak in Tatar, and not through schooling. Therefore, my Turkish language ability is better than my Tatar language skills.

            However, I see that all Turkic groups making an effort to understand each other better, perhaps we could do our part my posting some of our messages in both Tatar and Turkish, or one of these languages and in English.

            Sincerely,

            Kamil Yuneli

            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 10:03 AM
            Subject: Re: Re: [tatar-l] merhaba

            Pardon my intrusion as a non-Tatar, but what makes you think that Tatars have to understand Turkish?
             
            Xormet belan,
             
            Helen
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 8:11 PM
            Subject: SV: Re: [tatar-l] merhaba

            I am sory bud if you are tatar than you haft to understand turkish to, now i gat a chock,can you please tell me are you tatar or not ?


            Irek Bikkinin <irek@...> skrev:
            Ahmet,
             
            Sorry, I could not understand you. No stops, no commas...
            I am sure Shozab also will not be able to understand you.
            Ahmet, could you please give us main ideas of your message in English (or Tatar, or Russian)?
             
            Irek.
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 9:20 PM
            Subject: [tatar-l] merhaba

            Sevgili irek Bikkinin shozab arkadasimizin  gönderdigi mail beni sahsen dusundurmeye itti diyebilirim nedenmi? aciklayayim cunki ben kendim isvecte yasiyan bir turk olarak burda bazi tarih bilgisinden yoksun  veya  öyle bilmek  ve yansitmak icindirki canim ve cigerim olan ve katiksiz turk olan sevgili tatar insanimizi burda yani isvecte hindistandan gelen cingeneler diye yansitmaya  ve öyle bilmek istemeleri beni nerde ise cilgina döndurmustu simdi  sunuda söylemek isterimki cingeneye karsi benim hic bir zaman art niyetim olmamistir olmazda fakat su bir gercektir ki kimsenin bizlere cingene demelerine musade edemem biz turkler yani tatarlar orta asyali gururlu ve kulturlu bir milletiz dolayisi ile size mail gönderen shozab arkadasin ne kadar dogru veye yanlis fikirler ve dusunceler yansitmak gibi bir his dogdu  kendimde belki  hatali dusunuyor olabilirim  ki eger öyle isem bundan dolayi sizlerden ve shozab arkadastan özur dilerim:
            sevgiler Ahmet Özkan:

            Irek Bikkinin <irek@...> skrev:
            Dear Shozab,
             
            How do know that your ancestors were Tatars?
            Family legends? Some papers, documents?
            When had your ancestors come to India? From where?
            Where in India do you live now?
             
            Regards,
            Irek.
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 11:24 AM
            Subject: [tatar-l] salam

            hello all,
            iam shozab rahman tatar. iam from india. my forefathers and many more came here a long time ago. we have forgotten our culture, language, even we have startedlooking like them. but we are very much tatars by heart. iam always eager to know my culture people. i would be glad to hear from my people.
            salam
              

            Yahoo! Photos – NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo.


          • kyuneli
            Dear Helen, Almost all of the Turkish posts in our message board have been posted by Tatars not by Anatolian Turks. These posters are just using the language
            Message 5 of 20 , Jan 7, 2006
              Dear Helen,
              Almost all of the Turkish posts in our message board have been posted
              by Tatars not by Anatolian Turks. These posters are just using the
              language that they are most familiar with and also in the language
              that would be understood by a larger audience.

              I'm in favor of posting messages in Tatar by those who are
              proficient in that language, but any poster who is interested in
              being heard by a larger audience would be wise to post their message
              also in Turkish or/and English.

              Sincerely,
              Kamil Yuneli
              --------------------------------------------------------------------
              --- In tatar-l@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Faller" <hmfaller@h...> wrote:
              >
              > Dear Kamil,
              >
              > With all due respect, you have misunderstood my query. I am very
              well aware not only of the linguistic links between various Turkic
              languages, but also of how those languages circulate in diaspora
              communities. Rather, I am inquiring about the near-imperialist
              presumption of Anatolian Turks who consider all other Turkic
              languages to be but dialects of their standard.
              >
              > I don't wish to inject a dose of marja kebek venom into the list.
              At the same time, it becomes tiresome to read post after post from
              Anatolians who write in Turkish presuming that Tatars are some kind
              of little brothers who have an obligation to know their language.
              >
              > Sabiriginiz ochen rahmet.
              >
              > Xushegez,
              >
              > Helen
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: yuneli@s...<mailto:yuneli@s...>
              > To: tatar-l@yahoogroups.com<mailto:tatar-l@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 2:09 PM
              > Subject: Re: Re: [tatar-l] merhaba
              >
              >
              > Hi Helen,
              >
              > There are many Tatar groups whose language is close to Turkish
              spoken in Turkey. Crimean Tatars comes to my mind as one of these
              groups. Also most of the diaspora Tatars live in Turkey, or have
              lived there before moving to other countries. Therefore, most of the
              diaspora Tatars speak Turkish. Many Turks and Europeans who know
              these Tatars assume that all Tatars can speak and understand Turkish.
              >
              > I'm one of these Mishar Tatars who grew up in Turkey before
              moving to the United States. Unfortunately my Tatar language ability
              comes from hearing my parents and their friends speak in Tatar, and
              not through schooling. Therefore, my Turkish language ability is
              better than my Tatar language skills.
              >
              > However, I see that all Turkic groups making an effort to
              understand each other better, perhaps we could do our part by posting
              some of our messages in both Tatar and Turkish, or one of these
              languages and in English.
              >
              > Sincerely,
              >
              > Kamil Yuneli
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Helen Faller<mailto:hmfaller@h...>
              > To: tatar-l@yahoogroups.com<mailto:tatar-l@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 10:03 AM
              > Subject: Re: Re: [tatar-l] merhaba
              >
              >
              > Pardon my intrusion as a non-Tatar, but what makes you think
              that Tatars have to understand Turkish?
              >
              > Xormet belan,
              >
              > Helen
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: ahmet özkan<mailto:a_zkan@y...>
              > To: tatar-l@yahoogroups.com<mailto:tatar-l@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 8:11 PM
              > Subject: SV: Re: [tatar-l] merhaba
            • shozab donald
              Eid Mubarak to u all bratheren from Shozab Rahman Tatar (India) ahmet özkan wrote: TO MSR XORMET BELAN. I AM SORY BUD MY ENGLISH IS NOT
              Message 6 of 20 , Jan 9, 2006
                Eid Mubarak to u all bratheren
                 
                from
                Shozab Rahman Tatar
                (India)
                ahmet özkan <a_zkan@...> wrote:
                TO MSR XORMET BELAN.
                I AM SORY BUD MY ENGLISH IS NOT VERRY WELL BUD I CAN ANSWER TO YOU, I AM A TATAR TO,.

                Helen Faller <hmfaller@...> skrev:
                Pardon my intrusion as a non-Tatar, but what makes you think that Tatars have to understand Turkish?
                 
                Xormet belan,
                 
                Helen
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 8:11 PM
                Subject: SV: Re: [tatar-l] merhaba

                I am sory bud if you are tatar than you haft to understand turkish to, now i gat a chock,can you please tell me are you tatar or not ?


                Irek Bikkinin <irek@...> skrev:
                Ahmet,
                 
                Sorry, I could not understand you. No stops, no commas...
                I am sure Shozab also will not be able to understand you.
                Ahmet, could you please give us main ideas of your message in English (or Tatar, or Russian)?
                 
                Irek.
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 9:20 PM
                Subject: [tatar-l] merhaba

                Sevgili irek Bikkinin shozab arkadasimizin  gönderdigi mail beni sahsen dusundurmeye itti diyebilirim nedenmi? aciklayayim cunki ben kendim isvecte yasiyan bir turk olarak burda bazi tarih bilgisinden yoksun  veya  öyle bilmek  ve yansitmak icindirki canim ve cigerim olan ve katiksiz turk olan sevgili tatar insanimizi burda yani isvecte hindistandan gelen cingeneler diye yansitmaya  ve öyle bilmek istemeleri beni nerde ise cilgina döndurmustu simdi  sunuda söylemek isterimki cingeneye karsi benim hic bir zaman art niyetim olmamistir olmazda fakat su bir gercektir ki kimsenin bizlere cingene demelerine musade edemem biz turkler yani tatarlar orta asyali gururlu ve kulturlu bir milletiz dolayisi ile size mail gönderen shozab arkadasin ne kadar dogru veye yanlis fikirler ve dusunceler yansitmak gibi bir his dogdu  kendimde belki  hatali dusunuyor olabilirim  ki eger öyle isem bundan dolayi sizlerden ve shozab arkadastan özur dilerim:
                sevgiler Ahmet Özkan:

                Irek Bikkinin <irek@...> skrev:
                Dear Shozab,
                 
                How do know that your ancestors were Tatars?
                Family legends? Some papers, documents?
                When had your ancestors come to India? From where?
                Where in India do you live now?
                 
                Regards,
                Irek.
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 11:24 AM
                Subject: [tatar-l] salam

                hello all,
                iam shozab rahman tatar. iam from india. my forefathers and many more came here a long time ago. we have forgotten our culture, language, even we have startedlooking like them. but we are very much tatars by heart. iam always eager to know my culture people. i would be glad to hear from my people.
                salam
                  

                Yahoo! Photos – NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo.





                Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail
              • M DK
                Mo khta ra m zhamagat !! Korban ba ira me bela n barygyzny da chyn ku ngelda n kotlyim! Ba ira megez mo ba ra k bulsyn!! Min To rek telena karshy tu gel. Any
                Message 7 of 20 , Jan 10, 2006

                  Mo'khta'ra'm zhamagat'!!

                  Korban ba'ira'me bela'n barygyzny da chyn ku'ngelda'n kotlyim!  Ba'ira'megez mo'ba'ra'k bulsyn!!

                  Min To'rek telena' karshy tu'gel.  Any bik yakhshy belma'ssa'm da', To'rek telenda' yazgan textlarny 1-5 kat ukyp, 50-70% anglyi alam.  To'rekcha' uku - bik faidaly na'rsa', cho'nki To'rekla'r arabyzda - ing ko'chle ha'm aldagy milla't/da'u'la't.  A'ga'r ha'r Tatar To'rek telen belsa' ide, Tatarlar arasynda bara torgan uryslashu beta'r ide, cho'nki To'rek pop-ma'da'niya'te (a' ul [urys pop-ma'da'niya'te] - uryslarnyng ing effective koraly) uryslarnykyga karaganda kyzyklyrak ta konbatyshlyrak ta bula. Orhan Pamuk'ny da To'rek telenda' ukyr idem, a'mma "Tu'rk dilin" yakhshycha belmicha', any Ingliz telenda' gena' ukyi alam.  Tatar telena', kyzganychka karshy, Orhan Pamuknyng tarzhema'la're yok.

                  Ikhtiram bela'n,

                  mdk51


                  From: "kyuneli" <yuneli@...>
                  Reply-To: tatar-l@yahoogroups.com
                  To: tatar-l@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [tatar-l] merhaba
                  Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 03:28:14 -0000

                  Dear Helen,
                  Almost all of the Turkish posts in our message board have been posted
                  by Tatars not by Anatolian Turks.  These posters are just using the
                  language that they are most familiar with and also in the language
                  that would be understood by a larger audience.

                  I'm in favor of posting messages in Tatar by those who  are
                  proficient in that language, but any poster who is interested in
                  being heard by a larger audience would be wise to post their message
                  also in Turkish or/and English.

                  Sincerely,
                  Kamil Yuneli
                  --------------------------------------------------------------------
                  --- In tatar-l@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Faller" <hmfaller@h...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Dear Kamil,
                  >
                  > With all due respect, you have misunderstood my query. I am very
                  well aware not only of the linguistic links between various Turkic
                  languages, but also of how those languages circulate in diaspora
                  communities. Rather, I am inquiring about the near-imperialist
                  presumption of Anatolian Turks who consider all other Turkic
                  languages to be but dialects of their standard.
                  >
                  > I don't wish to inject a dose of marja kebek venom into the list.
                  At the same time, it becomes tiresome to read post after post from
                  Anatolians who write in Turkish presuming that Tatars are some kind
                  of little brothers who have an obligation to know their language.
                  >
                  > Sabiriginiz ochen rahmet.
                  >
                  > Xushegez,
                  >
                  > Helen
                  >   ----- Original Message -----
                  >   From: yuneli@s...<mailto:yuneli@s...>
                  >   To: tatar-l@yahoogroups.com<mailto:tatar-l@yahoogroups.com>
                  >   Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 2:09 PM
                  >   Subject: Re: Re: [tatar-l] merhaba
                  >
                  >
                  >   Hi Helen,
                  >
                  >   There are many Tatar groups whose language is close to Turkish
                  spoken in Turkey. Crimean Tatars comes to my mind as one of these
                  groups. Also most of the diaspora Tatars live in Turkey, or have
                  lived there before moving to other countries. Therefore, most of the
                  diaspora Tatars speak Turkish. Many Turks and Europeans who know
                  these Tatars assume that all Tatars can speak and understand Turkish.
                  >
                  >   I'm one of these Mishar Tatars who grew up in Turkey before
                  moving to the United States. Unfortunately my Tatar language ability
                  comes from hearing my parents and their friends speak in Tatar, and
                  not through schooling. Therefore, my Turkish language ability is
                  better than my Tatar language skills.
                  >
                  >   However, I see that all Turkic groups making an effort to
                  understand each other better, perhaps we could do our part by posting
                  some of our messages in both Tatar and Turkish, or one of these
                  languages and in English.
                  >
                  >   Sincerely,
                  >
                  >   Kamil Yuneli
                  >
                  >     ----- Original Message -----
                  >     From: Helen Faller<mailto:hmfaller@h...>
                  >     To: tatar-l@yahoogroups.com<mailto:tatar-l@yahoogroups.com>
                  >     Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 10:03 AM
                  >     Subject: Re: Re: [tatar-l] merhaba
                  >
                  >
                  >     Pardon my intrusion as a non-Tatar, but what makes you think
                  that Tatars have to understand Turkish?
                  >
                  >     Xormet belan,
                  >
                  >     Helen
                  >       ----- Original Message -----
                  >       From: ahmet �zkan<mailto:a_zkan@y...>
                  >       To: tatar-l@yahoogroups.com<mailto:tatar-l@yahoogroups.com>
                  >       Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 8:11 PM
                  >       Subject: SV: Re: [tatar-l] merhaba






                  To subscribe send a blank message to tatar-l-subscribe@yahoogroups.com



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                • Helen Faller
                  Hemegez isenmesez! Korban bayramegez kutly bulsyn dep telim! Sez belesez, min de turk tele karshy tugelmin, mogain. Turk tele bik matur tel, anyng
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jan 10, 2006

                    Hemegez isenmesez!

                    Korban bayramegez kutly bulsyn dep telim!

                    Sez belesez, min de turk tele karshy tugelmin, mogain. Turk tele bik matur tel, anyng grammatikasyn jaksy koremin -- o cok guzeldir! Men Turkiyede buldym. Turkler bik yagmli, kunakchyl xalyk, memleketinen eibet. Peisaji matur. Kuxniiasy temli. Ben Turkiye cok seviyorum. Hichshiksiz. Birak bu tatarlar turk tele bilerge majbur digen fiker matur tugel, minemche. Belki men durys oilamym amma beriber ozem mnenie eiterge -- xokugym, shulai tugelmini?

                    Hemde kem kemne anglaala digen sorau turynda bernerse belmiim. Amerikan etnolinguisty John Gumperz suzlerinde: teller yoki dialektter arasynda anglau -- bu gomumen subjektif ber eiber.

                    Baresegez sau bulyp toregyz,

                    Helen


                    From: "M DK" <mdk51@...>
                    Reply-To: tatar-l@yahoogroups.com
                    To: tatar-l@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [tatar-l] merhaba - Korban ba'ira'me bela'n kotlyim!!
                    Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 16:06:29 +0300

                    Mo'khta'ra'm zhamagat'!!

                    Korban ba'ira'me bela'n barygyzny da chyn ku'ngelda'n kotlyim!  Ba'ira'megez mo'ba'ra'k bulsyn!!

                    Min To'rek telena' karshy tu'gel.  Any bik yakhshy belma'ssa'm da', To'rek telenda' yazgan textlarny 1-5 kat ukyp, 50-70% anglyi alam.  To'rekcha' uku - bik faidaly na'rsa', cho'nki To'rekla'r arabyzda - ing ko'chle ha'm aldagy milla't/da'u'la't.  A'ga'r ha'r Tatar To'rek telen belsa' ide, Tatarlar arasynda bara torgan uryslashu beta'r ide, cho'nki To'rek pop-ma'da'niya'te (a' ul [urys pop-ma'da'niya'te] - uryslarnyng ing effective koraly) uryslarnykyga karaganda kyzyklyrak ta konbatyshlyrak ta bula. Orhan Pamuk'ny da To'rek telenda' ukyr idem, a'mma "Tu'rk dilin" yakhshycha belmicha', any Ingliz telenda' gena' ukyi alam.  Tatar telena', kyzganychka karshy, Orhan Pamuknyng tarzhema'la're yok.

                    Ikhtiram bela'n,

                    mdk51


                    From: "kyuneli" <yuneli@...>
                    Reply-To: tatar-l@yahoogroups.com
                    To: tatar-l@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [tatar-l] merhaba
                    Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 03:28:14 -0000

                    Dear Helen,
                    Almost all of the Turkish posts in our message board have been posted
                    by Tatars not by Anatolian Turks.  These posters are just using the
                    language that they are most familiar with and also in the language
                    that would be understood by a larger audience.

                    I'm in favor of posting messages in Tatar by those who  are
                    proficient in that language, but any poster who is interested in
                    being heard by a larger audience would be wise to post their message
                    also in Turkish or/and English.

                    Sincerely,
                    Kamil Yuneli
                    --------------------------------------------------------------------
                    --- In tatar-l@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Faller" <hmfaller@h...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Dear Kamil,
                    >
                    > With all due respect, you have misunderstood my query. I am very
                    well aware not only of the linguistic links between various Turkic
                    languages, but also of how those languages circulate in diaspora
                    communities. Rather, I am inquiring about the near-imperialist
                    presumption of Anatolian Turks who consider all other Turkic
                    languages to be but dialects of their standard.
                    >
                    > I don't wish to inject a dose of marja kebek venom into the list.
                    At the same time, it becomes tiresome to read post after post from
                    Anatolians who write in Turkish presuming that Tatars are some kind
                    of little brothers who have an obligation to know their language.
                    >
                    > Sabiriginiz ochen rahmet.
                    >
                    > Xushegez,
                    >
                    > Helen
                    >   ----- Original Message -----
                    >   From: yuneli@s...<mailto:yuneli@s...>
                    >   To: tatar-l@yahoogroups.com<mailto:tatar-l@yahoogroups.com>
                    >   Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 2:09 PM
                    >   Subject: Re: Re: [tatar-l] merhaba
                    >
                    >
                    >   Hi Helen,
                    >
                    >   There are many Tatar groups whose language is close to Turkish
                    spoken in Turkey. Crimean Tatars comes to my mind as one of these
                    groups. Also most of the diaspora Tatars live in Turkey, or have
                    lived there before moving to other countries. Therefore, most of the
                    diaspora Tatars speak Turkish. Many Turks and Europeans who know
                    these Tatars assume that all Tatars can speak and understand Turkish.
                    >
                    >   I'm one of these Mishar Tatars who grew up in Turkey before
                    moving to the United States. Unfortunately my Tatar language ability
                    comes from hearing my parents and their friends speak in Tatar, and
                    not through schooling. Therefore, my Turkish language ability is
                    better than my Tatar language skills.
                    >
                    >   However, I see that all Turkic groups making an effort to
                    understand each other better, perhaps we could do our part by posting
                    some of our messages in both Tatar and Turkish, or one of these
                    languages and in English.
                    >
                    >   Sincerely,
                    >
                    >   Kamil Yuneli
                    >
                    >     ----- Original Message -----
                    >     From: Helen Faller<mailto:hmfaller@h...>
                    >     To: tatar-l@yahoogroups.com<mailto:tatar-l@yahoogroups.com>
                    >     Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 10:03 AM
                    >     Subject: Re: Re: [tatar-l] merhaba
                    >
                    >
                    >     Pardon my intrusion as a non-Tatar, but what makes you think
                    that Tatars have to understand Turkish?
                    >
                    >     Xormet belan,
                    >
                    >     Helen
                    >       ----- Original Message -----
                    >       From: ahmet �zkan<mailto:a_zkan@y...>
                    >       To: tatar-l@yahoogroups.com<mailto:tatar-l@yahoogroups.com>
                    >       Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 8:11 PM
                    >       Subject: SV: Re: [tatar-l] merhaba






                    To subscribe send a blank message to tatar-l-subscribe@yahoogroups.com



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                    Russia visaTravel to russiaRussia visa requirement
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                    To subscribe send a blank message to tatar-l-subscribe@yahoogroups.com



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                  • ahmet özkan
                    Sevgili dostum mubarek kurban bayraminizi kutlarim. Helen Faller skrev: Hemegez isenmesez! Korban bayramegez kutly bulsyn dep telim! Sez
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jan 10, 2006
                      Sevgili dostum mubarek kurban bayraminizi kutlarim.


                      Helen Faller <hmfaller@...> skrev:
                      Hemegez isenmesez!
                      Korban bayramegez kutly bulsyn dep telim!
                      Sez belesez, min de turk tele karshy tugelmin, mogain. Turk tele bik matur tel, anyng grammatikasyn jaksy koremin -- o cok guzeldir! Men Turkiyede buldym. Turkler bik yagmli, kunakchyl xalyk, memleketinen eibet. Peisaji matur. Kuxniiasy temli. Ben Turkiye cok seviyorum. Hichshiksiz. Birak bu tatarlar turk tele bilerge majbur digen fiker matur tugel, minemche. Belki men durys oilamym amma beriber ozem mnenie eiterge -- xokugym, shulai tugelmini?
                      Hemde kem kemne anglaala digen sorau turynda bernerse belmiim. Amerikan etnolinguisty John Gumperz suzlerinde: teller yoki dialektter arasynda anglau -- bu gomumen subjektif ber eiber.
                      Baresegez sau bulyp toregyz,
                      Helen


                      From: "M DK" <mdk51@...>
                      Reply-To: tatar-l@yahoogroups.com
                      To: tatar-l@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [tatar-l] merhaba - Korban ba'ira'me bela'n kotlyim!!
                      Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 16:06:29 +0300

                      Mo'khta'ra'm zhamagat'!!
                      Korban ba'ira'me bela'n barygyzny da chyn ku'ngelda'n kotlyim!  Ba'ira'megez mo'ba'ra'k bulsyn!!
                      Min To'rek telena' karshy tu'gel.  Any bik yakhshy belma'ssa'm da', To'rek telenda' yazgan textlarny 1-5 kat ukyp, 50-70% anglyi alam.  To'rekcha' uku - bik faidaly na'rsa', cho'nki To'rekla'r arabyzda - ing ko'chle ha'm aldagy milla't/da'u'la't.  A'ga'r ha'r Tatar To'rek telen belsa' ide, Tatarlar arasynda bara torgan uryslashu beta'r ide, cho'nki To'rek pop-ma'da'niya'te (a' ul [urys pop-ma'da'niya'te] - uryslarnyng ing effective koraly) uryslarnykyga karaganda kyzyklyrak ta konbatyshlyrak ta bula. Orhan Pamuk'ny da To'rek telenda' ukyr idem, a'mma "Tu'rk dilin" yakhshycha belmicha', any Ingliz telenda' gena' ukyi alam.  Tatar telena', kyzganychka karshy, Orhan Pamuknyng tarzhema'la're yok.
                      Ikhtiram bela'n,
                      mdk51

                      From: "kyuneli" <yuneli@...>
                      Reply-To: tatar-l@yahoogroups.com
                      To: tatar-l@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [tatar-l] merhaba
                      Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 03:28:14 -0000

                      Dear Helen,
                      Almost all of the Turkish posts in our message board have been posted
                      by Tatars not by Anatolian Turks.  These posters are just using the
                      language that they are most familiar with and also in the language
                      that would be understood by a larger audience.

                      I'm in favor of posting messages in Tatar by those who  are
                      proficient in that language, but any poster who is interested in
                      being heard by a larger audience would be wise to post their message
                      also in Turkish or/and English.

                      Sincerely,
                      Kamil Yuneli
                      --------------------------------------------------------------------
                      --- In tatar-l@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Faller" <hmfaller@h...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Dear Kamil,
                      >
                      > With all due respect, you have misunderstood my query. I am very
                      well aware not only of the linguistic links between various Turkic
                      languages, but also of how those languages circulate in diaspora
                      communities. Rather, I am inquiring about the near-imperialist
                      presumption of Anatolian Turks who consider all other Turkic
                      languages to be but dialects of their standard.
                      >
                      > I don't wish to inject a dose of marja kebek venom into the list.
                      At the same time, it becomes tiresome to read post after post from
                      Anatolians who write in Turkish presuming that Tatars are some kind
                      of little brothers who have an obligation to know their language.
                      >
                      > Sabiriginiz ochen rahmet.
                      >
                      > Xushegez,
                      >
                      > Helen
                      >   ----- Original Message -----
                      >   From: yuneli@s...<mailto:yuneli@s...>
                      >   To: tatar-l@yahoogroups.com<mailto:tatar-l@yahoogroups.com>
                      >   Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 2:09 PM
                      >   Subject: Re: Re: [tatar-l] merhaba
                      >
                      >
                      >   Hi Helen,
                      >
                      >   There are many Tatar groups whose language is close to Turkish
                      spoken in Turkey. Crimean Tatars comes to my mind as one of these
                      groups. Also most of the diaspora Tatars live in Turkey, or have
                      lived there before moving to other countries. Therefore, most of the
                      diaspora Tatars speak Turkish. Many Turks and Europeans who know
                      these Tatars assume that all Tatars can speak and understand Turkish.
                      >
                      >   I'm one of these Mishar Tatars who grew up in Turkey before
                      moving to the United States. Unfortunately my Tatar language ability
                      comes from hearing my parents and their friends speak in Tatar, and
                      not through schooling. Therefore, my Turkish language ability is
                      better than my Tatar language skills.
                      >
                      >   However, I see that all Turkic groups making an effort to
                      understand each other better, perhaps we could do our part by posting
                      some of our messages in both Tatar and Turkish, or one of these
                      languages and in English.
                      >
                      >   Sincerely,
                      >
                      >   Kamil Yuneli
                      >
                      >     ----- Original Message -----
                      >     From: Helen Faller<mailto:hmfaller@h...>
                      >     To: tatar-l@yahoogroups.com<mailto:tatar-l@yahoogroups.com>
                      >     Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 10:03 AM
                      >     Subject: Re: Re: [tatar-l] merhaba
                      >
                      >
                      >     Pardon my intrusion as a non-Tatar, but what makes you think
                      that Tatars have to understand Turkish?
                      >
                      >     Xormet belan,
                      >
                      >     Helen
                      >       ----- Original Message -----
                      >       From: ahmet özkan<mailto:a_zkan@y...>
                      >       To: tatar-l@yahoogroups.com<mailto:tatar-l@yahoogroups.com>
                      >       Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 8:11 PM
                      >       Subject: SV: Re: [tatar-l] merhaba






                      To subscribe send a blank message to tatar-l-subscribe@yahoogroups.com



                      SPONSORED LINKS
                      Russia visaTravel to russiaRussia visa requirement
                      Russia visa support


                      YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS







                      Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! MSN Messenger Download today it's FREE!

                      To subscribe send a blank message to tatar-l-subscribe@yahoogroups.com



                      SPONSORED LINKS
                      Russia visaTravel to russiaRussia visa requirement
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                    • M DK
                      Kaderle Helen, A lba tta , ma zhbu r tu gel. Nichek bez avyldagy/sha ha rda ge Misha rne ya uryslashkan Kazanlyny To rek telena o ira terbez?.. A mma a ga r
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jan 11, 2006

                        Kaderle Helen,

                        A'lba'tta', ma'zhbu'r tu'gel.  Nichek bez avyldagy/sha'ha'rda'ge Misha'rne ya' uryslashkan Kazanlyny To'rek telena' o'ira'terbez?..  A'mma a'ga'r ukygan Tatarlar To'rek telen belsa' va' kullansa ide, bik yakhshy va' faidaly bulyr ide.  Ma'sa'la'n, na'rsa' TNV'da ku'rsa'ta'la'r?  Brazil'dan satyp algan sabyn-operalarny.  Na'k Tu'rkiya'da'n andyi sabyn-operalarny satyp almyilar (To'rek TV'da andyi na'rsa'la'r bik ku'p - min "tabak" antennasy asha To'rek TV'ny kha'rvakyt bagam ha'm minga ul bik oshyi)? Cho'nki Kazan Tatarlary To'rek telen belmila'r ha'm uryslardan kollar kebek kha'rvakyt u'rna'k alalar. Na'k Kazanda ha'r pochmaktan urys pop-yerlary gyna ishetela' a' To'rek va' Tatar yerlary ishetelmi? Cho'nki Kazan Tatarlary To'rek ma'da'niya'te turynda bernida' belmila'r, alarnyng u'z ma'da'niya'te tu'ba'n da'ra'zha'da'ge bula (shunyng o'chen bik zhitdi sa'ba'pla're bar, shunga ku'ra min Kazan Tatarlaryn monda ta'nkyit' itmim) ha'm uryslar kebek itenerga' toryshalar.  H.b., h.b. Andyi ma'sa'la'la'r bik ku'p.  A', mena', Tagyn ber misal - irta' bela'n TNV'ny bakkanda: alar shul Brazildagy sabyn-operada Tatar telenda'ge ta'rzhema'da' "ochkych" (To'rekcha' "uchak") urynyna "samolet" kullangannar. Na'k? Cho'nki gadi Kazanlylarga urys telenna'n su'zne alyrga zhingelra'k - To'rek ma'da'niya'ten Kazanga/Tatarstanga uryslar da yeba'rmi, Tatar ziyalylary da To'rkiya' ziyalylarynyng tarafynnan "yaryshyn" korpkyp toralar (ma'sa'la'n, Orhan Pamuk kebek yazuchylar Tatarstanda yok, CNN Turk kebek TV channely Tatarstanda yok ta yakyn kila'cha'kta' bulmas ta, h.b.), h.b., h.b.

                        Kyskacha, in short, in my humble opinion, there are only benefits from "merging" the Tatar and Turkish cultures, langages, life-styles, etc.  Turks are the most Westernized and sophisticated "Turks" (i.e. Tatars, Bashkorts, Uzbeks, etc.).  We simply must USE Turkey and the Turkish language as a conduit to the Western world, as an antidote to the extremely stupid and "sexually confused" Russian pop-culture (with male singers dressed as Ukrainian middle-aged women, male stand-up comedians dressed as old female "babuskas", etc., etc.), since the Turkish pop-culture seems to be more competitive and attractive, and as an example for further development of the Tatar nation.  There is also a benefit from seeng Tatar-related stuff from Turkish mass media on this forum - even if we don't understand 100%, we still get an idea of what it is about and also get a feel of how things are perceived from Turkey, excuse me for yet reiterating this, OUR most independent, developed, educated and wealthy country.   

                        Yaryi, buldy.  Inglizcha' da' Tatarcha da bersa'k yazyp kuidym.  Igtibarygyz o'chen bik zur ra'khma't, Helen tutash...  Ungyshlar ha'm ba'khet Sezga' tela'p kalam.

                        Ikhtiram bela'n,

                        mdk51


                        From: "Helen Faller" <hmfaller@...>
                        Reply-To: tatar-l@yahoogroups.com
                        To: tatar-l@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [tatar-l] merhaba - Korban ba'ira'me bela'n kotlyim!!
                        Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 12:16:23 -0500

                        Hemegez isenmesez!

                        Korban bayramegez kutly bulsyn dep telim!

                        Sez belesez, min de turk tele karshy tugelmin, mogain. Turk tele bik matur tel, anyng grammatikasyn jaksy koremin -- o cok guzeldir! Men Turkiyede buldym. Turkler bik yagmli, kunakchyl xalyk, memleketinen eibet. Peisaji matur. Kuxniiasy temli. Ben Turkiye cok seviyorum. Hichshiksiz. Birak bu tatarlar turk tele bilerge majbur digen fiker matur tugel, minemche. Belki men durys oilamym amma beriber ozem mnenie eiterge -- xokugym, shulai tugelmini?

                        Hemde kem kemne anglaala digen sorau turynda bernerse belmiim. Amerikan etnolinguisty John Gumperz suzlerinde: teller yoki dialektter arasynda anglau -- bu gomumen subjektif ber eiber.

                        Baresegez sau bulyp toregyz,

                        Helen


                        From: "M DK" <mdk51@...>
                        Reply-To: tatar-l@yahoogroups.com
                        To: tatar-l@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [tatar-l] merhaba - Korban ba'ira'me bela'n kotlyim!!
                        Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 16:06:29 +0300

                        Mo'khta'ra'm zhamagat'!!

                        Korban ba'ira'me bela'n barygyzny da chyn ku'ngelda'n kotlyim!  Ba'ira'megez mo'ba'ra'k bulsyn!!

                        Min To'rek telena' karshy tu'gel.  Any bik yakhshy belma'ssa'm da', To'rek telenda' yazgan textlarny 1-5 kat ukyp, 50-70% anglyi alam.  To'rekcha' uku - bik faidaly na'rsa', cho'nki To'rekla'r arabyzda - ing ko'chle ha'm aldagy milla't/da'u'la't.  A'ga'r ha'r Tatar To'rek telen belsa' ide, Tatarlar arasynda bara torgan uryslashu beta'r ide, cho'nki To'rek pop-ma'da'niya'te (a' ul [urys pop-ma'da'niya'te] - uryslarnyng ing effective koraly) uryslarnykyga karaganda kyzyklyrak ta konbatyshlyrak ta bula. Orhan Pamuk'ny da To'rek telenda' ukyr idem, a'mma "Tu'rk dilin" yakhshycha belmicha', any Ingliz telenda' gena' ukyi alam.  Tatar telena', kyzganychka karshy, Orhan Pamuknyng tarzhema'la're yok.

                        Ikhtiram bela'n,

                        mdk51


                        From: "kyuneli" <yuneli@...>
                        Reply-To: tatar-l@yahoogroups.com
                        To: tatar-l@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [tatar-l] merhaba
                        Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 03:28:14 -0000

                        Dear Helen,
                        Almost all of the Turkish posts in our message board have been posted
                        by Tatars not by Anatolian Turks.  These posters are just using the
                        language that they are most familiar with and also in the language
                        that would be understood by a larger audience.

                        I'm in favor of posting messages in Tatar by those who  are
                        proficient in that language, but any poster who is interested in
                        being heard by a larger audience would be wise to post their message
                        also in Turkish or/and English.

                        Sincerely,
                        Kamil Yuneli
                        --------------------------------------------------------------------
                        --- In tatar-l@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Faller" <hmfaller@h...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Dear Kamil,
                        >
                        > With all due respect, you have misunderstood my query. I am very
                        well aware not only of the linguistic links between various Turkic
                        languages, but also of how those languages circulate in diaspora
                        communities. Rather, I am inquiring about the near-imperialist
                        presumption of Anatolian Turks who consider all other Turkic
                        languages to be but dialects of their standard.
                        >
                        > I don't wish to inject a dose of marja kebek venom into the list.
                        At the same time, it becomes tiresome to read post after post from
                        Anatolians who write in Turkish presuming that Tatars are some kind
                        of little brothers who have an obligation to know their language.
                        >
                        > Sabiriginiz ochen rahmet.
                        >
                        > Xushegez,
                        >
                        > Helen
                        >   ----- Original Message -----
                        >   From: yuneli@s...<mailto:yuneli@s...>
                        >   To: tatar-l@yahoogroups.com<mailto:tatar-l@yahoogroups.com>
                        >   Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 2:09 PM
                        >   Subject: Re: Re: [tatar-l] merhaba
                        >
                        >
                        >   Hi Helen,
                        >
                        >   There are many Tatar groups whose language is close to Turkish
                        spoken in Turkey. Crimean Tatars comes to my mind as one of these
                        groups. Also most of the diaspora Tatars live in Turkey, or have
                        lived there before moving to other countries. Therefore, most of the
                        diaspora Tatars speak Turkish. Many Turks and Europeans who know
                        these Tatars assume that all Tatars can speak and understand Turkish.
                        >
                        >   I'm one of these Mishar Tatars who grew up in Turkey before
                        moving to the United States. Unfortunately my Tatar language ability
                        comes from hearing my parents and their friends speak in Tatar, and
                        not through schooling. Therefore, my Turkish language ability is
                        better than my Tatar language skills.
                        >
                        >   However, I see that all Turkic groups making an effort to
                        understand each other better, perhaps we could do our part by posting
                        some of our messages in both Tatar and Turkish, or one of these
                        languages and in English.
                        >
                        >   Sincerely,
                        >
                        >   Kamil Yuneli
                        >
                        >     ----- Original Message -----
                        >     From: Helen Faller<mailto:hmfaller@h...>
                        >     To: tatar-l@yahoogroups.com<mailto:tatar-l@yahoogroups.com>
                        >     Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 10:03 AM
                        >     Subject: Re: Re: [tatar-l] merhaba
                        >
                        >
                        >     Pardon my intrusion as a non-Tatar, but what makes you think
                        that Tatars have to understand Turkish?
                        >
                        >     Xormet belan,
                        >
                        >     Helen
                        >       ----- Original Message -----
                        >       From: ahmet �zkan<mailto:a_zkan@y...>
                        >       To: tatar-l@yahoogroups.com<mailto:tatar-l@yahoogroups.com>
                        >       Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 8:11 PM
                        >       Subject: SV: Re: [tatar-l] merhaba






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