Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

'Sermons in russian'

Expand Messages
  • Resat Sabik
    Selam, I guess Azeris, Kazakhs, Uzbeks, Kyrgyzes, Turkmens, Tajiks, and Afghans all together total about 1% of Tatarstani population and maybe 5% of those
    Message 1 of 7 , Apr 22, 2000
      Selam,
      I guess Azeris, Kazakhs, Uzbeks,
      Kyrgyzes, Turkmens, Tajiks, and Afghans all together
      total about 1% of Tatarstani population and maybe 5%
      of those attending mosque prayers. Bashkirs is a
      different thing they can understand Tatar probably
      even better than Bashkir, cause they live in
      Tatarstan.
      At the same time, I am not sure all these people
      really can understand russian much better than Tatar
      Even Afghans and Tajiks, who are not Turkics probably
      find more known words in Tatar than in russian.

      Conclusion: this "sequential" appeal sums up to one
      more 'russianization' effort. If I wasn't so upset I
      would lough at this anecdote.

      Wesselam,
      Resat.

      > Mosques To Hold Religious Services In Russian
      >
      > Tatarstan's Mufti, Gusman khazrat Iskhakov, agreed
      > to hold some religious
      > services in Kazan's mosques in the Russian language,
      > the Vremya i Dengi daily
      > reported on 18 April. The measure was proposed by
      > representatives of Muslim
      > communities of Azeris, Bashkirs, Kazakhs, Uzbeks,
      > Kyrgyzes, Turkmens, Tajiks,
      > and Afghans, residing in Tatarstan, during their
      > meeting with the Mufti at the
      > Muslim
      > Spiritual board. The issue on broadcasting in
      > Russian Muslim transmissions by
      > local television was also discussed.
      >
      > By Gulnara Khasanova
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Uli Schamiloglu
      > Associate Professor of Central Asian Studies
      > Department of Languages and Cultures of Asia
      > 1452 Van Hise Hall -- University of Wisconsin
      > 1220 Linden Drive, Madison, WI 53706 USA
      > tel. 1-608-262-7141 off.; 1-608-262-3012 dept.;
      > 1-608-265-3538 fax
      > E-mail: uschamil@...

      __________________________________________________
      Do You Yahoo!?
      Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites.
      http://invites.yahoo.com
    • Helen Faller
      Selamnar, Although it may not seem worthwhile to hold special sermons for them, there are some Russians in Kazan who are converting to Islam. Moreover, and
      Message 2 of 7 , Apr 22, 2000
        Selamnar,

        Although it may not seem worthwhile to hold special sermons for them, there
        are some Russians in Kazan who are converting to Islam. Moreover, and more
        importantly, there are young russophone Tatars who are becoming religious
        and going to mosque here.

        Sau bulygyz,

        Helen Faller


        --On Saturday, April 22, 2000, 8:01 AM -0700 Resat Sabik
        <chechenistan@...> wrote:

        > Selam,
        > I guess Azeris, Kazakhs, Uzbeks,
        > Kyrgyzes, Turkmens, Tajiks, and Afghans all together
        > total about 1% of Tatarstani population and maybe 5%
        > of those attending mosque prayers. Bashkirs is a
        > different thing they can understand Tatar probably
        > even better than Bashkir, cause they live in
        > Tatarstan.
        > At the same time, I am not sure all these people
        > really can understand russian much better than Tatar
        > Even Afghans and Tajiks, who are not Turkics probably
        > find more known words in Tatar than in russian.
        >
        > Conclusion: this "sequential" appeal sums up to one
        > more 'russianization' effort. If I wasn't so upset I
        > would lough at this anecdote.
        >
        > Wesselam,
        > Resat.
        >
        >> Mosques To Hold Religious Services In Russian
        >>
        >> Tatarstan's Mufti, Gusman khazrat Iskhakov, agreed
        >> to hold some religious
        >> services in Kazan's mosques in the Russian language,
        >> the Vremya i Dengi daily
        >> reported on 18 April. The measure was proposed by
        >> representatives of Muslim
        >> communities of Azeris, Bashkirs, Kazakhs, Uzbeks,
        >> Kyrgyzes, Turkmens, Tajiks,
        >> and Afghans, residing in Tatarstan, during their
        >> meeting with the Mufti at the
        >> Muslim
        >> Spiritual board. The issue on broadcasting in
        >> Russian Muslim transmissions by
        >> local television was also discussed.
        >>
        >> By Gulnara Khasanova
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> Uli Schamiloglu
        >> Associate Professor of Central Asian Studies
        >> Department of Languages and Cultures of Asia
        >> 1452 Van Hise Hall -- University of Wisconsin
        >> 1220 Linden Drive, Madison, WI 53706 USA
        >> tel. 1-608-262-7141 off.; 1-608-262-3012 dept.;
        >> 1-608-265-3538 fax
        >> E-mail: uschamil@...
        >
        > __________________________________________________
        > Do You Yahoo!?
        > Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites.
        > http://invites.yahoo.com
        >
        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > Your high school sweetheart-where is he now? With 4.4 million alumni
        > already registered at Classmates.com, there's a good chance you'll
        > find her here. Visit your online high school class reunion at:
        > http://click.egroups.com/1/3139/2/_/25469/_/956415765/
        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        >
        > Message from Tatar-L@egroups.com To unsubscribe send a blank message
        > to Tatar-L-Unsubscribe@egroups.com
      • Tahir Mingazov
        Dear Helen, i would like to comment on the recent words of a really big shot among himeself, his majesty Mirza Yanov. I want to thank you - Helen for your
        Message 3 of 7 , Apr 23, 2000
          Dear Helen,
          i would like to comment on the recent words of a really big shot among
          himeself, his majesty Mirza Yanov.
          I want to thank you - Helen for your participation in this group and your
          unbiased comments. I hope that your impression about Tatar manhood was not
          affected by the statement of our abovementioned groupmate. Usually Tatars
          respect women no matter what their nationalities are, rare exceptions only
          confirm this rule.
          I think that what you wrote about Rusophone Tatars was a very good point
          because Moslem sermons are a way for them to learn their native tongue.
          Tolerance among the nations always has done more than calls to destroy
          something. Only an ignorant person can call Karl Marx a fashist or
          something. Its like blaming inventor Kalashnikov for what was done with the
          help of Kalashnikov machine gun. (mass destruction weapons are of course
          another matter).
          I have to inform "hot blooded patriots" that there's no Lenin street in
          Kazan at the moment. It was given a new name - Kremlevskaya, Kreml urami.
          Why don't you visit our town since there has been said so much about it
          here?

          Even chemists have to respect history however tragic it is. Its impossible
          to correct history, no use. We have to deal with present. Its a little sad
          that only Helen is doing something positive to promote Tatar language.

          Yours truly,
          Tahir





          ________________________________________________________________________
          Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
        • Vil Mirzayanov
          Kederele Helen Faller khanim, Sez bik nik tatar belen kiziksingan keehge oshagansiz hem Sau Buligiz digen suzlerne de belesez. Belki ezrek algarak kitep
          Message 4 of 7 , Apr 23, 2000
            Kederele Helen Faller khanim,
            Sez bik nik tatar belen kiziksingan keehge oshagansiz hem Sau Buligiz digen
            suzlerne de belesez. Belki ezrek algarak kitep tatarcha da jazish bashlarga
            nijetegez tumadime ele. Juksa bik kizik tugel tatar turenda ingliz telende
            jazu. Shulaj mene urus aristokratlari zamaninda fransuz telende gene
            sojleshkenner uzara hem uruscha belmegenner de. Eger sez jaza bashlasagiz
            tatarcha chatalar belen bulsa da ul iskitkich tatar khalqina hezmet buluena
            oshanigiz. Hezmet bit suzler belen tugel konkret aktsijalr belen gene bara.
            Zur telekler belen
            Dr.Vil Mirzayanov

            Helen Faller wrote:

            > Selamnar,
            >
            > Although it may not seem worthwhile to hold special sermons for them, there
            > are some Russians in Kazan who are converting to Islam. Moreover, and more
            > importantly, there are young russophone Tatars who are becoming religious
            > and going to mosque here.
            >
            > Sau bulygyz,
            >
            > Helen Faller
            >
            > --On Saturday, April 22, 2000, 8:01 AM -0700 Resat Sabik
            > <chechenistan@...> wrote:
            >
            > > Selam,
            > > I guess Azeris, Kazakhs, Uzbeks,
            > > Kyrgyzes, Turkmens, Tajiks, and Afghans all together
            > > total about 1% of Tatarstani population and maybe 5%
            > > of those attending mosque prayers. Bashkirs is a
            > > different thing they can understand Tatar probably
            > > even better than Bashkir, cause they live in
            > > Tatarstan.
            > > At the same time, I am not sure all these people
            > > really can understand russian much better than Tatar
            > > Even Afghans and Tajiks, who are not Turkics probably
            > > find more known words in Tatar than in russian.
            > >
            > > Conclusion: this "sequential" appeal sums up to one
            > > more 'russianization' effort. If I wasn't so upset I
            > > would lough at this anecdote.
            > >
            > > Wesselam,
            > > Resat.
            > >
            > >> Mosques To Hold Religious Services In Russian
            > >>
            > >> Tatarstan's Mufti, Gusman khazrat Iskhakov, agreed
            > >> to hold some religious
            > >> services in Kazan's mosques in the Russian language,
            > >> the Vremya i Dengi daily
            > >> reported on 18 April. The measure was proposed by
            > >> representatives of Muslim
            > >> communities of Azeris, Bashkirs, Kazakhs, Uzbeks,
            > >> Kyrgyzes, Turkmens, Tajiks,
            > >> and Afghans, residing in Tatarstan, during their
            > >> meeting with the Mufti at the
            > >> Muslim
            > >> Spiritual board. The issue on broadcasting in
            > >> Russian Muslim transmissions by
            > >> local television was also discussed.
            > >>
            > >> By Gulnara Khasanova
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >> Uli Schamiloglu
            > >> Associate Professor of Central Asian Studies
            > >> Department of Languages and Cultures of Asia
            > >> 1452 Van Hise Hall -- University of Wisconsin
            > >> 1220 Linden Drive, Madison, WI 53706 USA
            > >> tel. 1-608-262-7141 off.; 1-608-262-3012 dept.;
            > >> 1-608-265-3538 fax
            > >> E-mail: uschamil@...
            > >
            > > __________________________________________________
            > > Do You Yahoo!?
            > > Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites.
            > > http://invites.yahoo.com
            > >
            > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > > Your high school sweetheart-where is he now? With 4.4 million alumni
            > > already registered at Classmates.com, there's a good chance you'll
            > > find her here. Visit your online high school class reunion at:
            > > http://click.egroups.com/1/3139/2/_/25469/_/956415765/
            > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > >
            > > Message from Tatar-L@egroups.com To unsubscribe send a blank message
            > > to Tatar-L-Unsubscribe@egroups.com
            >
            > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > Your high school sweetheart-where is he now? With 4.4 million alumni
            > already registered at Classmates.com, there's a good chance you'll
            > find her here. Visit your online high school class reunion at:
            > http://click.egroups.com/1/3139/2/_/25469/_/956428210/
            > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            >
            > Message from Tatar-L@egroups.com To unsubscribe send a blank message
            > to Tatar-L-Unsubscribe@egroups.com
          • Resat Sabik
            Selam, first wanted to reiterate that we should not demand especially non-Tatars to write in Tatar. If we do, we risk to further narrow already indefinitely
            Message 5 of 7 , Apr 29, 2000
              Selam,
              first wanted to reiterate that we should not demand
              especially non-Tatars to write in Tatar. If we do, we
              risk to further narrow already indefinitely narrow
              circle of info flow (free and unrestricted, thanks to
              the web).
              And all Tatar problems are stemming from isolation and
              absence of free communication, historically not only
              now.
              -------------------------
              I did not have a chance to write in more detail
              regarding sermons in russian. I do know that there is
              a need for sermons in russian for non-Muslim converts
              and assimilated Tatars. I didn't know much Tatar
              myself until about 16 when starting grinding it (out
              of the blue, elxemdulillah).
              But such sermons should not be justified as Turkic
              people don't know Tatar, they want it. That's
              nonsense.
              Second, this practice should not take place in all
              mosques in Kazan (or Tatarstan), but specially
              designated ones. Say, there are 10 mosques ( acually I
              recall only 6) in Kazan, 1 of them maybe should
              conduct comga (Friday service) in russian. Whoever
              prefers or needs russian, should be able to read
              notices etc. and locate that mosque. If every single
              mosque in Qazan starts praying in russian (even if
              sometimes) for the sake of absolute minority, that's
              total bull.
              This would be OK. In the US, only-Spanish people go to
              their own churches, who wants English go to others.
              The message however said some serviceS in Qazan
              mosqueS (plural).


              Final note: Tatar is 1 of 2 state languages in
              Tatarstan, but only one social institution currently
              pactices it systematically: Islam (mosques,
              publications, services, celebrations etc.). Those
              below do nothing:
              -state & gvt
              -media( TV, web; radio and papers though do some
              ostentation of functioning)
              -schools
              -social & pro orgs (their appearance)

              Even 'family' is almost non-functional, maybe only in
              rural areas to some extent.
              In this context, after taking into account Chechnya
              and all the appeals and threats of prosecution of
              Shaimiev (and even open pressure on TPC not to conduct
              meeting against putin), I am still inclined to believe
              that this new appeal 'as it was reported by RFERL'
              shows that moscow decided to hit the only social
              institution practicing Tatar.

              Xormetler,
              Resat.

              >
              > > Selamnar,
              > >
              > > Although it may not seem worthwhile to hold
              > special sermons for them, there
              > > are some Russians in Kazan who are converting to
              > Islam. Moreover, and more
              > > importantly, there are young russophone Tatars who
              > are becoming religious
              > > and going to mosque here.
              > >
              > > Sau bulygyz,
              > >
              > > Helen Faller
              > >
              > > --On Saturday, April 22, 2000, 8:01 AM -0700 Resat
              > Sabik
              > > <chechenistan@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > > Selam,
              > > > I guess Azeris, Kazakhs, Uzbeks,
              > > > Kyrgyzes, Turkmens, Tajiks, and Afghans all
              > together
              > > > total about 1% of Tatarstani population and
              > maybe 5%
              > > > of those attending mosque prayers. Bashkirs is a
              > > > different thing they can understand Tatar
              > probably
              > > > even better than Bashkir, cause they live in
              > > > Tatarstan.
              > > > At the same time, I am not sure all these people
              > > > really can understand russian much better than
              > Tatar
              > > > Even Afghans and Tajiks, who are not Turkics
              > probably
              > > > find more known words in Tatar than in russian.
              > > >
              > > > Conclusion: this "sequential" appeal sums up to
              > one
              > > > more 'russianization' effort. If I wasn't so
              > upset I
              > > > would lough at this anecdote.
              > > >
              > > > Wesselam,
              > > > Resat.
              > > >
              > > >> Mosques To Hold Religious Services In Russian
              > > >>
              > > >> Tatarstan's Mufti, Gusman khazrat Iskhakov,
              > agreed
              > > >> to hold some religious
              > > >> services in Kazan's mosques in the Russian
              > language,
              > > >> the Vremya i Dengi daily
              > > >> reported on 18 April. The measure was proposed
              > by
              > > >> representatives of Muslim
              > > >> communities of Azeris, Bashkirs, Kazakhs,
              > Uzbeks,
              > > >> Kyrgyzes, Turkmens, Tajiks,
              > > >> and Afghans, residing in Tatarstan, during
              > their
              > > >> meeting with the Mufti at the
              > > >> Muslim
              > > >> Spiritual board. The issue on broadcasting in
              > > >> Russian Muslim transmissions by
              > > >> local television was also discussed.
              > > >>
              > > >> By Gulnara Khasanova
              > > >>
              > > >>
              > > >>
              > > >>
              > > >> Uli Schamiloglu
              > > >> Associate Professor of Central Asian Studies
              > > >> Department of Languages and Cultures of Asia
              > > >> 1452 Van Hise Hall -- University of Wisconsin
              > > >> 1220 Linden Drive, Madison, WI 53706 USA
              > > >> tel. 1-608-262-7141 off.; 1-608-262-3012 dept.;
              > > >> 1-608-265-3538 fax
              > > >> E-mail: uschamil@...
              > > >
              > > >
              > __________________________________________________
              > > > Do You Yahoo!?
              > > > Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites.
              > > > http://invites.yahoo.com
              > > >
              > > >
              >
              ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              > > > Your high school sweetheart-where is he now?
              > With 4.4 million alumni
              > > > already registered at Classmates.com, there's a
              > good chance you'll
              > > > find her here. Visit your online high school
              > class reunion at:
              > > >
              >
              http://click.egroups.com/1/3139/2/_/25469/_/956415765/
              > > >
              >
              ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              > > >
              > > > Message from Tatar-L@egroups.com To unsubscribe
              > send a blank message
              > > > to Tatar-L-Unsubscribe@egroups.com
              > >
              > >
              >
              ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              > > Your high school sweetheart-where is he now? With
              > 4.4 million alumni
              > > already registered at Classmates.com, there's a
              > good chance you'll
              > > find her here. Visit your online high school class
              > reunion at:
              > >
              >
              http://click.egroups.com/1/3139/2/_/25469/_/956428210/
              > >
              >
              ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              > >
              > > Message from Tatar-L@egroups.com To unsubscribe
              > send a blank message
              > > to Tatar-L-Unsubscribe@egroups.com
              >
              >
              >
              ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              > Good friends, school spirit, hair-dos you'd like to
              > forget.
              > Classmates.com has them all. And with 4.4 million
              > alumni already
              > registered, there's a good chance you'll find your
              > friends here:
              >
              http://click.egroups.com/1/2885/2/_/25469/_/956499336/
              >
              ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              >
              > Message from Tatar-L@egroups.com To unsubscribe
              > send a blank message
              > to Tatar-L-Unsubscribe@egroups.com
              >
              >

              __________________________________________________
              Do You Yahoo!?
              Talk to your friends online and get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
              http://im.yahoo.com/
            • Zulfiya Kadir
              Hi, Resat You are absolutely right. It is not a good idea to switch to Tatar. We shouldn t scare off foreign people who don t know Tatar but looking for
              Message 6 of 7 , Apr 29, 2000
                Hi, Resat

                You are absolutely right. It is not a good idea to switch to Tatar. We
                shouldn't scare off foreign people who don't know Tatar but looking for
                alternative info about the republic behinde the information curtain. I love
                Tatar, but English is the international language of communication. World
                knows so little about the Tatars, actually for now it knows what Shaimiev
                wants it to know. Our mission is to let the world know more more truth
                about the Tatars, so keep writing in English.

                Sincerely,
                Zulfiya Kadir

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Resat Sabik <chechenistan@...>
                To: <tatar-l@egroups.com>
                Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2000 3:10 PM
                Subject: Re: [tatar-l] 'Sermons in russian'


                > Selam,
                > first wanted to reiterate that we should not demand
                > especially non-Tatars to write in Tatar. If we do, we
                > risk to further narrow already indefinitely narrow
                > circle of info flow (free and unrestricted, thanks to
                > the web).
                > And all Tatar problems are stemming from isolation and
                > absence of free communication, historically not only
                > now.
                > -------------------------
                > I did not have a chance to write in more detail
                > regarding sermons in russian. I do know that there is
                > a need for sermons in russian for non-Muslim converts
                > and assimilated Tatars. I didn't know much Tatar
                > myself until about 16 when starting grinding it (out
                > of the blue, elxemdulillah).
                > But such sermons should not be justified as Turkic
                > people don't know Tatar, they want it. That's
                > nonsense.
                > Second, this practice should not take place in all
                > mosques in Kazan (or Tatarstan), but specially
                > designated ones. Say, there are 10 mosques ( acually I
                > recall only 6) in Kazan, 1 of them maybe should
                > conduct comga (Friday service) in russian. Whoever
                > prefers or needs russian, should be able to read
                > notices etc. and locate that mosque. If every single
                > mosque in Qazan starts praying in russian (even if
                > sometimes) for the sake of absolute minority, that's
                > total bull.
                > This would be OK. In the US, only-Spanish people go to
                > their own churches, who wants English go to others.
                > The message however said some serviceS in Qazan
                > mosqueS (plural).
                >
                >
                > Final note: Tatar is 1 of 2 state languages in
                > Tatarstan, but only one social institution currently
                > pactices it systematically: Islam (mosques,
                > publications, services, celebrations etc.). Those
                > below do nothing:
                > -state & gvt
                > -media( TV, web; radio and papers though do some
                > ostentation of functioning)
                > -schools
                > -social & pro orgs (their appearance)
                >
                > Even 'family' is almost non-functional, maybe only in
                > rural areas to some extent.
                > In this context, after taking into account Chechnya
                > and all the appeals and threats of prosecution of
                > Shaimiev (and even open pressure on TPC not to conduct
                > meeting against putin), I am still inclined to believe
                > that this new appeal 'as it was reported by RFERL'
                > shows that moscow decided to hit the only social
                > institution practicing Tatar.
                >
                > Xormetler,
                > Resat.
                >
                > >
                > > > Selamnar,
                > > >
                > > > Although it may not seem worthwhile to hold
                > > special sermons for them, there
                > > > are some Russians in Kazan who are converting to
                > > Islam. Moreover, and more
                > > > importantly, there are young russophone Tatars who
                > > are becoming religious
                > > > and going to mosque here.
                > > >
                > > > Sau bulygyz,
                > > >
                > > > Helen Faller
                > > >
                > > > --On Saturday, April 22, 2000, 8:01 AM -0700 Resat
                > > Sabik
                > > > <chechenistan@...> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > > Selam,
                > > > > I guess Azeris, Kazakhs, Uzbeks,
                > > > > Kyrgyzes, Turkmens, Tajiks, and Afghans all
                > > together
                > > > > total about 1% of Tatarstani population and
                > > maybe 5%
                > > > > of those attending mosque prayers. Bashkirs is a
                > > > > different thing they can understand Tatar
                > > probably
                > > > > even better than Bashkir, cause they live in
                > > > > Tatarstan.
                > > > > At the same time, I am not sure all these people
                > > > > really can understand russian much better than
                > > Tatar
                > > > > Even Afghans and Tajiks, who are not Turkics
                > > probably
                > > > > find more known words in Tatar than in russian.
                > > > >
                > > > > Conclusion: this "sequential" appeal sums up to
                > > one
                > > > > more 'russianization' effort. If I wasn't so
                > > upset I
                > > > > would lough at this anecdote.
                > > > >
                > > > > Wesselam,
                > > > > Resat.
                > > > >
                > > > >> Mosques To Hold Religious Services In Russian
                > > > >>
                > > > >> Tatarstan's Mufti, Gusman khazrat Iskhakov,
                > > agreed
                > > > >> to hold some religious
                > > > >> services in Kazan's mosques in the Russian
                > > language,
                > > > >> the Vremya i Dengi daily
                > > > >> reported on 18 April. The measure was proposed
                > > by
                > > > >> representatives of Muslim
                > > > >> communities of Azeris, Bashkirs, Kazakhs,
                > > Uzbeks,
                > > > >> Kyrgyzes, Turkmens, Tajiks,
                > > > >> and Afghans, residing in Tatarstan, during
                > > their
                > > > >> meeting with the Mufti at the
                > > > >> Muslim
                > > > >> Spiritual board. The issue on broadcasting in
                > > > >> Russian Muslim transmissions by
                > > > >> local television was also discussed.
                > > > >>
                > > > >> By Gulnara Khasanova
                > > > >>
                > > > >>
                > > > >>
                > > > >>
                > > > >> Uli Schamiloglu
                > > > >> Associate Professor of Central Asian Studies
                > > > >> Department of Languages and Cultures of Asia
                > > > >> 1452 Van Hise Hall -- University of Wisconsin
                > > > >> 1220 Linden Drive, Madison, WI 53706 USA
                > > > >> tel. 1-608-262-7141 off.; 1-608-262-3012 dept.;
                > > > >> 1-608-265-3538 fax
                > > > >> E-mail: uschamil@...
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > __________________________________________________
                > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                > > > > Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites.
                > > > > http://invites.yahoo.com
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > >
                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                > > > > Your high school sweetheart-where is he now?
                > > With 4.4 million alumni
                > > > > already registered at Classmates.com, there's a
                > > good chance you'll
                > > > > find her here. Visit your online high school
                > > class reunion at:
                > > > >
                > >
                > http://click.egroups.com/1/3139/2/_/25469/_/956415765/
                > > > >
                > >
                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                > > > >
                > > > > Message from Tatar-L@egroups.com To unsubscribe
                > > send a blank message
                > > > > to Tatar-L-Unsubscribe@egroups.com
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                > > > Your high school sweetheart-where is he now? With
                > > 4.4 million alumni
                > > > already registered at Classmates.com, there's a
                > > good chance you'll
                > > > find her here. Visit your online high school class
                > > reunion at:
                > > >
                > >
                > http://click.egroups.com/1/3139/2/_/25469/_/956428210/
                > > >
                > >
                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                > > >
                > > > Message from Tatar-L@egroups.com To unsubscribe
                > > send a blank message
                > > > to Tatar-L-Unsubscribe@egroups.com
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                > > Good friends, school spirit, hair-dos you'd like to
                > > forget.
                > > Classmates.com has them all. And with 4.4 million
                > > alumni already
                > > registered, there's a good chance you'll find your
                > > friends here:
                > >
                > http://click.egroups.com/1/2885/2/_/25469/_/956499336/
                > >
                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                > >
                > > Message from Tatar-L@egroups.com To unsubscribe
                > > send a blank message
                > > to Tatar-L-Unsubscribe@egroups.com
                > >
                > >
                >
                > __________________________________________________
                > Do You Yahoo!?
                > Talk to your friends online and get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
                > http://im.yahoo.com/
                >
                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                > Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to table saws.
                > http://click.egroups.com/1/3020/2/_/25469/_/957035457/
                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                >
                > Message from Tatar-L@egroups.com To unsubscribe send a blank message
                > to Tatar-L-Unsubscribe@egroups.com
                >
              • Helen Faller
                Isenmesez Resat efende, You will excuse me if I write in English, as knowing the words sau bulygyz does not a native speaker make. (Nor does eight months of
                Message 7 of 7 , Apr 30, 2000
                  Isenmesez Resat efende,

                  You will excuse me if I write in English, as knowing the words "sau
                  bulygyz" does not a native speaker make. (Nor does eight months of study of
                  Tatar.)

                  I absolutely agree with all of the comments you made below. I am not trying
                  to justify the russification of all aspects of Tatar life. The reason for
                  my note was that I find that RFE/RL news often does not socially
                  contextualize events it reports taking place in Kazan. I am not criticizing
                  RFE/RL either -- journalists are not anthropologists. There is a serious
                  problem in Kazan among young people who do not speak Tatar. (My hypothesis,
                  however, is that many of them maintain their Tatar by going to their home
                  villages nearly every weekend and during their holidays.) Although I study
                  this problem, that is, the theme of the dissertation for which I am doing
                  research in Kazan is the relationship between sovereignty politics and the
                  political economy of languages in Tatarstan, I have no solutions to offer.
                  However, I am perfectly capable of boring you all to tears with thick
                  description :)

                  Isen-sau,

                  Helen
                  --On Saturday, April 29, 2000, 12:10 PM -0700 Resat Sabik
                  <chechenistan@...> wrote:

                  > Selam,
                  > first wanted to reiterate that we should not demand
                  > especially non-Tatars to write in Tatar. If we do, we
                  > risk to further narrow already indefinitely narrow
                  > circle of info flow (free and unrestricted, thanks to
                  > the web).
                  > And all Tatar problems are stemming from isolation and
                  > absence of free communication, historically not only
                  > now.
                  > -------------------------
                  > I did not have a chance to write in more detail
                  > regarding sermons in russian. I do know that there is
                  > a need for sermons in russian for non-Muslim converts
                  > and assimilated Tatars. I didn't know much Tatar
                  > myself until about 16 when starting grinding it (out
                  > of the blue, elxemdulillah).
                  > But such sermons should not be justified as Turkic
                  > people don't know Tatar, they want it. That's
                  > nonsense.
                  > Second, this practice should not take place in all
                  > mosques in Kazan (or Tatarstan), but specially
                  > designated ones. Say, there are 10 mosques ( acually I
                  > recall only 6) in Kazan, 1 of them maybe should
                  > conduct comga (Friday service) in russian. Whoever
                  > prefers or needs russian, should be able to read
                  > notices etc. and locate that mosque. If every single
                  > mosque in Qazan starts praying in russian (even if
                  > sometimes) for the sake of absolute minority, that's
                  > total bull.
                  > This would be OK. In the US, only-Spanish people go to
                  > their own churches, who wants English go to others.
                  > The message however said some serviceS in Qazan
                  > mosqueS (plural).
                  >
                  >
                  > Final note: Tatar is 1 of 2 state languages in
                  > Tatarstan, but only one social institution currently
                  > pactices it systematically: Islam (mosques,
                  > publications, services, celebrations etc.). Those
                  > below do nothing:
                  > -state & gvt
                  > -media( TV, web; radio and papers though do some
                  > ostentation of functioning)
                  > -schools
                  > -social & pro orgs (their appearance)
                  >
                  > Even 'family' is almost non-functional, maybe only in
                  > rural areas to some extent.
                  > In this context, after taking into account Chechnya
                  > and all the appeals and threats of prosecution of
                  > Shaimiev (and even open pressure on TPC not to conduct
                  > meeting against putin), I am still inclined to believe
                  > that this new appeal 'as it was reported by RFERL'
                  > shows that moscow decided to hit the only social
                  > institution practicing Tatar.
                  >
                  > Xormetler,
                  > Resat.
                  >
                  >>
                  >> > Selamnar,
                  >> >
                  >> > Although it may not seem worthwhile to hold
                  >> special sermons for them, there
                  >> > are some Russians in Kazan who are converting to
                  >> Islam. Moreover, and more
                  >> > importantly, there are young russophone Tatars who
                  >> are becoming religious
                  >> > and going to mosque here.
                  >> >
                  >> > Sau bulygyz,
                  >> >
                  >> > Helen Faller
                  >> >
                  >> > --On Saturday, April 22, 2000, 8:01 AM -0700 Resat
                  >> Sabik
                  >> > <chechenistan@...> wrote:
                  >> >
                  >> > > Selam,
                  >> > > I guess Azeris, Kazakhs, Uzbeks,
                  >> > > Kyrgyzes, Turkmens, Tajiks, and Afghans all
                  >> together
                  >> > > total about 1% of Tatarstani population and
                  >> maybe 5%
                  >> > > of those attending mosque prayers. Bashkirs is a
                  >> > > different thing they can understand Tatar
                  >> probably
                  >> > > even better than Bashkir, cause they live in
                  >> > > Tatarstan.
                  >> > > At the same time, I am not sure all these people
                  >> > > really can understand russian much better than
                  >> Tatar
                  >> > > Even Afghans and Tajiks, who are not Turkics
                  >> probably
                  >> > > find more known words in Tatar than in russian.
                  >> > >
                  >> > > Conclusion: this "sequential" appeal sums up to
                  >> one
                  >> > > more 'russianization' effort. If I wasn't so
                  >> upset I
                  >> > > would lough at this anecdote.
                  >> > >
                  >> > > Wesselam,
                  >> > > Resat.
                  >> > >
                  >> > >> Mosques To Hold Religious Services In Russian
                  >> > >>
                  >> > >> Tatarstan's Mufti, Gusman khazrat Iskhakov,
                  >> agreed
                  >> > >> to hold some religious
                  >> > >> services in Kazan's mosques in the Russian
                  >> language,
                  >> > >> the Vremya i Dengi daily
                  >> > >> reported on 18 April. The measure was proposed
                  >> by
                  >> > >> representatives of Muslim
                  >> > >> communities of Azeris, Bashkirs, Kazakhs,
                  >> Uzbeks,
                  >> > >> Kyrgyzes, Turkmens, Tajiks,
                  >> > >> and Afghans, residing in Tatarstan, during
                  >> their
                  >> > >> meeting with the Mufti at the
                  >> > >> Muslim
                  >> > >> Spiritual board. The issue on broadcasting in
                  >> > >> Russian Muslim transmissions by
                  >> > >> local television was also discussed.
                  >> > >>
                  >> > >> By Gulnara Khasanova
                  >> > >>
                  >> > >>
                  >> > >>
                  >> > >>
                  >> > >> Uli Schamiloglu
                  >> > >> Associate Professor of Central Asian Studies
                  >> > >> Department of Languages and Cultures of Asia
                  >> > >> 1452 Van Hise Hall -- University of Wisconsin
                  >> > >> 1220 Linden Drive, Madison, WI 53706 USA
                  >> > >> tel. 1-608-262-7141 off.; 1-608-262-3012 dept.;
                  >> > >> 1-608-265-3538 fax
                  >> > >> E-mail: uschamil@...
                  >> > >
                  >> > >
                  >> __________________________________________________
                  >> > > Do You Yahoo!?
                  >> > > Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites.
                  >> > > http://invites.yahoo.com
                  >> > >
                  >> > >
                  >>
                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  >> > > Your high school sweetheart-where is he now?
                  >> With 4.4 million alumni
                  >> > > already registered at Classmates.com, there's a
                  >> good chance you'll
                  >> > > find her here. Visit your online high school
                  >> class reunion at:
                  >> > >
                  >>
                  > http://click.egroups.com/1/3139/2/_/25469/_/956415765/
                  >> > >
                  >>
                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  >> > >
                  >> > > Message from Tatar-L@egroups.com To unsubscribe
                  >> send a blank message
                  >> > > to Tatar-L-Unsubscribe@egroups.com
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >>
                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  >> > Your high school sweetheart-where is he now? With
                  >> 4.4 million alumni
                  >> > already registered at Classmates.com, there's a
                  >> good chance you'll
                  >> > find her here. Visit your online high school class
                  >> reunion at:
                  >> >
                  >>
                  > http://click.egroups.com/1/3139/2/_/25469/_/956428210/
                  >> >
                  >>
                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  >> >
                  >> > Message from Tatar-L@egroups.com To unsubscribe
                  >> send a blank message
                  >> > to Tatar-L-Unsubscribe@egroups.com
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  >> Good friends, school spirit, hair-dos you'd like to
                  >> forget.
                  >> Classmates.com has them all. And with 4.4 million
                  >> alumni already
                  >> registered, there's a good chance you'll find your
                  >> friends here:
                  >>
                  > http://click.egroups.com/1/2885/2/_/25469/_/956499336/
                  >>
                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  >>
                  >> Message from Tatar-L@egroups.com To unsubscribe
                  >> send a blank message
                  >> to Tatar-L-Unsubscribe@egroups.com
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  > __________________________________________________
                  > Do You Yahoo!?
                  > Talk to your friends online and get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
                  > http://im.yahoo.com/
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  > Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to table saws.
                  > http://click.egroups.com/1/3020/2/_/25469/_/957035457/
                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Message from Tatar-L@egroups.com To unsubscribe send a blank message
                  > to Tatar-L-Unsubscribe@egroups.com
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.