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[tatar-l] Re: article on bombings in Moscow

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  • Vil Mirzayanov
    This remind me confessions of millions of innocent people arrested by KGB in Stalin s times in any offered them crime ( they had had a choice!). I think
    Message 1 of 11 , Jan 6, 2000
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      This remind me "confessions" of millions of innocent people arrested by KGB in
      Stalin's times in any offered them crime ( they had had a choice!). I think Abu
      Musaev, Shamil Basaev and others are very good students of Beria and other
      criminals of Russia. The beheaded by these students Britain ingineers also had
      confessed in being western ( not russian) spyes against Chechnya. Should we be
      sorry that Ms.Helen Womack or another reporter didn't tape their confession?
      Dr. Vil Mirzayanov

      Uli Schamiloglu wrote:

      > I am sure that many of you will find this of interest.
      >
      > ******
      > Johnson's Russia List
      > #4014
      > 6 January 2000
      >
      > ******
      > #1
      > The Independent (UK)
      > 6 January 2000
      > [for personal use only]
      > By Helen Womack in Moscow
      > The Independent has obtained a videotape on which a Russian officer, captured
      > by the Chechens, "confesses" that Russian special services committed the
      > Moscow apartment-block bombings that ignited the latest war in Chechnya and
      > propelled Vladimir Putin into the Kremlin.
      > On the video, shot by a Turkish journalist last month before Grozny was
      > finally cut off by Russian forces, the captured Russian identifies himself as
      > Alexei Galtin of the GRU (Russian military intelligence service). The bearded
      > captive acknowledges as his own papers displayed by the Chechens that
      > identify him as a "Senior Lieutenant, Armed Special Services, General
      > Headquarters for Special Forces of the Russian Federation".
      > The Ministry of Defence was checking yesterday whetherthere was indeed such a
      > GRU officer. "Even if he exists, you understand what methods could have been
      > used on him in captivity," said a junior officer, who asked not to be named.
      > Colonel Yakov Firsov of the Ministry of Defence said on the record: "The
      > (Chechen) bandits feel their end is near and so they are using all manner of
      > dirty tricks in the information war. This is a provocation. This is rubbish.
      > The Russian armed forces protect the people. It is impossible that they would
      > attack their own people."
      > On the video, Lieutenant Galtin said he was captured at the border between
      > Dagestan and Chechnya while on a mine-laying mission. "I did not take part in
      > the explosions of the buildings in Moscow and Dagestan but I have information
      > about it. I know who is responsible for the bombings in Moscow (and
      > Dagestan). It is the FSB (Russian security service), in cooperation with the
      > GRU, that is responsible for the explosions in Volgodonsk and Moscow." He
      > then named other GRU officers.
      > Nearly 300 people died when four multi-storey apartment blocks were destroyed
      > by terrorist bombs in September. The attacks provoked Mr. Putin, appointed
      > prime minister the month before, to launch a new war in Chechnya.
      > Sedat Aral, a photographer with ISF News Pictures, said he shot the video in
      > a bunker in Grozny, where he met Abu Musayev, head of Chechen rebel
      > intelligence. Mr Musayev said the Chechens could prove they were not
      > responsible for the apartment-block bombings.
      > The Russian public backs the "anti-terrorist campaign" in Chechnya, which has
      > so boosted the popularity of its author, Mr Putin, that Boris Yeltsin has
      > retired early to make way for his chosen successor.
      > However the war started, the beneficiary is clearly Mr Putin. The former head
      > of Russia's domestic intelligence service is now poised to realise his
      > presidential ambitions.
      > ******
      >
      > Uli Schamiloglu
      > Associate Professor of Central Asian Studies
      > Department of Languages and Cultures of Asia
      > 1452 Van Hise Hall -- University of Wisconsin
      > 1220 Linden Drive, Madison, WI 53706 USA
      > tel. 1-608-262-7141 off.; 1-608-262-3012 dept.; 1-608-265-3538 fax
      > E-mail: uschamil@...
      >
      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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      >
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    • Resat Sabik
      Although it s true that such a confession might have been forced, i trust Chechens billions of times more than russians. The high probability that russian KGB
      Message 2 of 11 , Jan 9, 2000
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        Although it's true that such a confession might have
        been forced, i trust Chechens billions of times more
        than russians. The high probability that russian KGB
        itself exploded it's own people blaiming then Chechens
        has been mentioned by political scientists since the
        very beginning of the last genocide. One particualrly
        interesting question was "Why Chechens stopped
        explosions now as they suffer so much, if they had
        made explosions when they didn't suffer?". Another
        question was "What did they do(?) it for? It didn't
        further their cause."

        I consider this tape to be decisive and concrete proof
        of the KGB's genocide against Chechens, as well as
        russians!!! (This is especially true if no serious
        vestages of wounds or tortures were seen on the
        confesser)

        Resat.

        > > I am sure that many of you will find this of
        > interest.
        > >
        > > ******
        > > Johnson's Russia List
        > > #4014
        > > 6 January 2000
        > >
        > > ******
        > > #1
        > > The Independent (UK)
        > > 6 January 2000
        > > [for personal use only]
        > > By Helen Womack in Moscow
        > > The Independent has obtained a videotape on which
        > a Russian officer, captured
        > > by the Chechens, "confesses" that Russian special
        > services committed the
        > > Moscow apartment-block bombings that ignited the
        > latest war in Chechnya and
        > > propelled Vladimir Putin into the Kremlin.
        > > On the video, shot by a Turkish journalist last
        > month before Grozny was
        > > finally cut off by Russian forces, the captured
        > Russian identifies himself as
        > > Alexei Galtin of the GRU (Russian military
        > intelligence service). The bearded
        > > captive acknowledges as his own papers displayed
        > by the Chechens that
        > > identify him as a "Senior Lieutenant, Armed
        > Special Services, General
        > > Headquarters for Special Forces of the Russian
        > Federation".
        > > The Ministry of Defence was checking yesterday
        > whetherthere was indeed such a
        > > GRU officer. "Even if he exists, you understand
        > what methods could have been
        > > used on him in captivity," said a junior officer,
        > who asked not to be named.
        > > Colonel Yakov Firsov of the Ministry of Defence
        > said on the record: "The
        > > (Chechen) bandits feel their end is near and so
        > they are using all manner of
        > > dirty tricks in the information war. This is a
        > provocation. This is rubbish.
        > > The Russian armed forces protect the people. It is
        > impossible that they would
        > > attack their own people."
        > > On the video, Lieutenant Galtin said he was
        > captured at the border between
        > > Dagestan and Chechnya while on a mine-laying
        > mission. "I did not take part in
        > > the explosions of the buildings in Moscow and
        > Dagestan but I have information
        > > about it. I know who is responsible for the
        > bombings in Moscow (and
        > > Dagestan). It is the FSB (Russian security
        > service), in cooperation with the
        > > GRU, that is responsible for the explosions in
        > Volgodonsk and Moscow." He
        > > then named other GRU officers.
        > > Nearly 300 people died when four multi-storey
        > apartment blocks were destroyed
        > > by terrorist bombs in September. The attacks
        > provoked Mr. Putin, appointed
        > > prime minister the month before, to launch a new
        > war in Chechnya.
        > > Sedat Aral, a photographer with ISF News Pictures,
        > said he shot the video in
        > > a bunker in Grozny, where he met Abu Musayev, head
        > of Chechen rebel
        > > intelligence. Mr Musayev said the Chechens could
        > prove they were not
        > > responsible for the apartment-block bombings.
        > > The Russian public backs the "anti-terrorist
        > campaign" in Chechnya, which has
        > > so boosted the popularity of its author, Mr Putin,
        > that Boris Yeltsin has
        > > retired early to make way for his chosen
        > successor.
        > > However the war started, the beneficiary is
        > clearly Mr Putin. The former head
        > > of Russia's domestic intelligence service is now
        > poised to realise his
        > > presidential ambitions.
        > > ******
        > >
        > > Uli Schamiloglu
        > > Associate Professor of Central Asian Studies
        > > Department of Languages and Cultures of Asia
        > > 1452 Van Hise Hall -- University of Wisconsin
        > > 1220 Linden Drive, Madison, WI 53706 USA
        > > tel. 1-608-262-7141 off.; 1-608-262-3012 dept.;
        > 1-608-265-3538 fax
        > > E-mail: uschamil@...
        > >
        > >
        >
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      • Resat Sabik
        I wouldn t like my luck to befall on any decent person, i d like this luck to putin though. And it ll be, in the postmortum, insha Allah. ... === message
        Message 3 of 11 , Jan 9, 2000
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          I wouldn't like my "luck" to befall on any decent
          person, i'd like this "luck" to putin though. And
          it'll be, in the postmortum, insha'Allah.

          --- Vil Mirzayanov <mirzayanov@...>
          wrote:
          > Dear Mr.Resat Sabik,
          > Why this Mr.Ocaljan prisoned in turkish jail is
          > looking at cameras and
          > always telling absolutely opposite than he was
          > fiercely telling in a
          > freedom? What do you think when he was telling what
          > he wanted to in the jail
          > or in a freedom?
          > You are probably lucky person and didn't have a
          > chance to be in a jail or
          > captured.
          > O.K. Can you guarantee forever that you'll tell at
          > the cameras always only
          > what you want to tell if you were in a positon of
          > captured or prisoned
          > without any legal assistance and without any
          > guarantee that after that
          > you'll survive.
          > Where you saw also that victims after being captured
          > by the bandits had had
          > lawyers to trust to their confessions? I see you
          > are western citizen but
          > very easy you can suppose that it is convincing any
          > "confessioon" taken by
          > the bandits if these victims don't have bruises.
          > Again I am asking why these
          > unfortunate British engineers "confessed" that they
          > are spyes and were
          > beheaded by chechen bandits?
          > Relatives of these victims bought from chechen
          > bandits bodies of victims
          > together (thanks God) with their separated heads.
          > Dr. Vil Mirzayanov
          >
          > Resat Sabik wrote:
          >
          > > Although it's true that such a confession might
          > have
          > > been forced, i trust Chechens billions of times
          > more
          > > than russians. The high probability that russian
          > KGB
          > > itself exploded it's own people blaiming then
          > Chechens
          > > has been mentioned by political scientists since
          > the
          > > very beginning of the last genocide. One
          > particualrly
          > > interesting question was "Why Chechens stopped
          > > explosions now as they suffer so much, if they had
          > > made explosions when they didn't suffer?". Another
          > > question was "What did they do(?) it for? It
          > didn't
          > > further their cause."
          > >
          > > I consider this tape to be decisive and concrete
          > proof
          > > of the KGB's genocide against Chechens, as well as
          > > russians!!! (This is especially true if no serious
          > > vestages of wounds or tortures were seen on the
          > > confesser)
          > >
          > > Resat.
          > >
          > > > > I am sure that many of you will find this of
          > > > interest.
          > > > >
          > > > > ******
          > > > > Johnson's Russia List
          > > > > #4014
          > > > > 6 January 2000
          > > > >
          > > > > ******
          > > > > #1
          > > > > The Independent (UK)
          > > > > 6 January 2000
          > > > > [for personal use only]
          > > > > By Helen Womack in Moscow
          > > > > The Independent has obtained a videotape on
          > which
          > > > a Russian officer, captured
          > > > > by the Chechens, "confesses" that Russian
          > special
          > > > services committed the
          > > > > Moscow apartment-block bombings that ignited
          > the
          > > > latest war in Chechnya and
          > > > > propelled Vladimir Putin into the Kremlin.
          > > > > On the video, shot by a Turkish journalist
          > last
          > > > month before Grozny was
          > > > > finally cut off by Russian forces, the
          > captured
          > > > Russian identifies himself as
          > > > > Alexei Galtin of the GRU (Russian military
          > > > intelligence service). The bearded
          > > > > captive acknowledges as his own papers
          > displayed
          > > > by the Chechens that
          > > > > identify him as a "Senior Lieutenant, Armed
          > > > Special Services, General
          > > > > Headquarters for Special Forces of the Russian
          > > > Federation".
          > > > > The Ministry of Defence was checking yesterday
          > > > whetherthere was indeed such a
          > > > > GRU officer. "Even if he exists, you
          > understand
          > > > what methods could have been
          > > > > used on him in captivity," said a junior
          > officer,
          > > > who asked not to be named.
          > > > > Colonel Yakov Firsov of the Ministry of
          > Defence
          > > > said on the record: "The
          > > > > (Chechen) bandits feel their end is near and
          > so
          > > > they are using all manner of
          > > > > dirty tricks in the information war. This is a
          > > > provocation. This is rubbish.
          > > > > The Russian armed forces protect the people.
          > It is
          > > > impossible that they would
          > > > > attack their own people."
          > > > > On the video, Lieutenant Galtin said he was
          > > > captured at the border between
          > > > > Dagestan and Chechnya while on a mine-laying
          > > > mission. "I did not take part in
          > > > > the explosions of the buildings in Moscow and
          > > > Dagestan but I have information
          > > > > about it. I know who is responsible for the
          > > > bombings in Moscow (and
          > > > > Dagestan). It is the FSB (Russian security
          > > > service), in cooperation with the
          > > > > GRU, that is responsible for the explosions in
          > > > Volgodonsk and Moscow." He
          > > > > then named other GRU officers.
          > > > > Nearly 300 people died when four multi-storey
          > > > apartment blocks were destroyed
          > > > > by terrorist bombs in September. The attacks
          > > > provoked Mr. Putin, appointed
          > > > > prime minister the month before, to launch a
          > new
          > > > war in Chechnya.
          > > > > Sedat Aral, a photographer with ISF News
          > Pictures,
          > > > said he shot the video in
          > > > > a bunker in Grozny, where he met Abu Musayev,
          > head
          > > > of Chechen rebel
          > > > > intelligence. Mr Musayev said the Chechens
          > could
          > > > prove they were not
          > > > > responsible for the apartment-block bombings.
          > > > > The Russian public backs the "anti-terrorist
          > > > campaign" in Chechnya, which has
          > > > > so boosted the popularity of its author, Mr
          > Putin,
          > > > that Boris Yeltsin has
          > > > > retired early to make way for his chosen
          > > > successor.
          > > > > However the war started, the beneficiary is
          > > > clearly Mr Putin. The former head
          > > > > of Russia's domestic intelligence service is
          > now
          > > > poised to realise his
          > > > > presidential ambitions.
          > > > > ******
          > > > >
          > > > > Uli Schamiloglu
          > > > > Associate Professor of Central Asian Studies
          > > > > Department of Languages and Cultures of Asia
          > > > > 1452 Van Hise Hall -- University of Wisconsin
          > > > > 1220 Linden Drive, Madison, WI 53706 USA
          > > > > tel. 1-608-262-7141 off.; 1-608-262-3012
          > dept.;
          > > > 1-608-265-3538 fax
          > > > > E-mail: uschamil@...
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
          ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > > > > Message from Tatar-L@egroups.com To
          > unsubscribe
          > > > send a blank message
          > > > > to Tatar-L-Unsubscribe@egroups.com
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          > > > >
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        • Ravil Selihmet
          Now I have seen and read it all! Mr. Vil Mirzayan, the disciple of Dr. Sakharov( for whom I have the utmost respect) now calls the Chechens, fighting for their
          Message 4 of 11 , Jan 9, 2000
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            Now I have seen and read it all! Mr. Vil Mirzayan, the disciple of Dr. Sakharov( for whom I have the utmost respect) now calls the Chechens, fighting for their freedom bandits!! May I ask him humbly, and what do you call the Russians, who are commiting Genocide in Chechenya?
            Ravil Selihmet
            -----Original Message-----
            From: Vil Mirzayanov <mirzayanov@...>
            To: Resat Sabik <turktatar@...>
            Cc: tatar-l@egroups.com <tatar-l@egroups.com>
            Date: Sunday, January 09, 2000 4:24 PM
            Subject: [tatar-l] Re: article on bombings in Moscow

            Dear Mr.Resat Sabik,
            Why this Mr.Ocaljan prisoned in turkish jail  is looking at  cameras and
            always telling absolutely opposite than he was fiercely telling in a
            freedom? What do you think when he was telling what he wanted to in the jail
            or in a freedom?
            You are probably lucky person and didn't have a chance to be in a jail or
            captured.
            O.K. Can you guarantee forever that you'll tell at the cameras always only
            what you want to tell if you were in a positon of captured or prisoned
            without any legal assistance and without any guarantee that after that
            you'll survive.
            Where you saw also that victims after being captured by the bandits had had
            lawyers  to trust to their confessions? I see you are western citizen but
            very easy you can suppose that it is convincing any "confessioon" taken by
            the bandits if these victims don't have bruises. Again I am asking why these
            unfortunate British engineers "confessed" that they are spyes and were
            beheaded by chechen bandits?
            Relatives of these victims bought from chechen bandits bodies of victims
            together  (thanks God)  with their separated heads.
            Dr. Vil Mirzayanov
            
            Resat Sabik wrote:
            
            
            > Although it's true that such a confession might have > been forced, i trust Chechens billions of times more > than russians. The high probability that russian KGB > itself exploded it's own people blaiming then Chechens > has been mentioned by political scientists since the > very beginning of the last genocide. One particualrly > interesting question was "Why Chechens stopped > explosions now as they suffer so much, if they had > made explosions when they didn't suffer?". Another > question was "What did they do(?) it for? It didn't > further their cause." > > I consider this tape to be decisive and concrete proof > of the KGB's genocide against Chechens, as well as > russians!!! (This is especially true if no serious > vestages of wounds or tortures were seen on the > confesser) > > Resat. > > > > I am sure that many of you will find this of > > interest. > > > > > > ****** > > > Johnson's Russia List > > > #4014 > > > 6 January 2000 > > > > > > ****** > > > #1 > > > The Independent (UK) > > > 6 January 2000 > > > [for personal use only] > > > By Helen Womack in Moscow > > > The Independent has obtained a videotape on which > > a Russian officer, captured > > > by the Chechens, "confesses" that Russian special > > services committed the > > > Moscow apartment-block bombings that ignited the > > latest war in Chechnya and > > > propelled Vladimir Putin into the Kremlin. > > > On the video, shot by a Turkish journalist last > > month before Grozny was > > > finally cut off by Russian forces, the captured > > Russian identifies himself as > > > Alexei Galtin of the GRU (Russian military > > intelligence service). The bearded > > > captive acknowledges as his own papers displayed > > by the Chechens that > > > identify him as a "Senior Lieutenant, Armed > > Special Services, General > > > Headquarters for Special Forces of the Russian > > Federation". > > > The Ministry of Defence was checking yesterday > > whetherthere was indeed such a > > > GRU officer. "Even if he exists, you understand > > what methods could have been > > > used on him in captivity," said a junior officer, > > who asked not to be named. > > > Colonel Yakov Firsov of the Ministry of Defence > > said on the record: "The > > > (Chechen) bandits feel their end is near and so > > they are using all manner of > > > dirty tricks in the information war. This is a > > provocation. This is rubbish. > > > The Russian armed forces protect the people. It is > > impossible that they would > > > attack their own people." > > > On the video, Lieutenant Galtin said he was > > captured at the border between > > > Dagestan and Chechnya while on a mine-laying > > mission. "I did not take part in > > > the explosions of the buildings in Moscow and > > Dagestan but I have information > > > about it. I know who is responsible for the > > bombings in Moscow (and > > > Dagestan). It is the FSB (Russian security > > service), in cooperation with the > > > GRU, that is responsible for the explosions in > > Volgodonsk and Moscow." He > > > then named other GRU officers. > > > Nearly 300 people died when four multi-storey > > apartment blocks were destroyed > > > by terrorist bombs in September. The attacks > > provoked Mr. Putin, appointed > > > prime minister the month before, to launch a new > > war in Chechnya. > > > Sedat Aral, a photographer with ISF News Pictures, > > said he shot the video in > > > a bunker in Grozny, where he met Abu Musayev, head > > of Chechen rebel > > > intelligence. Mr Musayev said the Chechens could > > prove they were not > > > responsible for the apartment-block bombings. > > > The Russian public backs the "anti-terrorist > > campaign" in Chechnya, which has > > > so boosted the popularity of its author, Mr Putin, > > that Boris Yeltsin has > > > retired early to make way for his chosen > > successor. > > > However the war started, the beneficiary is > > clearly Mr Putin. The former head > > > of Russia's domestic intelligence service is now > > poised to realise his > > > presidential ambitions. > > > ****** > > > > > > Uli Schamiloglu > > > Associate Professor of Central Asian Studies > > > Department of Languages and Cultures of Asia > > > 1452 Van Hise Hall -- University of Wisconsin > > > 1220 Linden Drive, Madison, WI 53706 USA > > > tel. 1-608-262-7141 off.; 1-608-262-3012 dept.; > > 1-608-265-3538 fax > > > E-mail: uschamil@... > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Message from Tatar-L@egroups.com To unsubscribe > > send a blank message > > > to Tatar-L-Unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, > > anytime? > > > > > > You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to > > try it! Sign > > > > > > up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no > > obligation! > > > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/332/1/_/25469/_/947185456 > > > > > > -- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document > > Vault > > > -- http://www.egroups.com/docvault/tatar-l/?m=1 > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Message from Tatar-L@egroups.com To unsubscribe > > send a blank message > > to Tatar-L-Unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Looking for educational tools for you kids? > > Find everything you need at SmarterKids.com > > http://click.egroups.com/1/645/1/_/25469/_/947187441 > > > > -- Talk to your group with your own voice! > > -- > > > http://www.egroups.com/VoiceChatPage?listName=tatar-l&m=1 > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! 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          • Vil Mirzayanov
            Dear Mr.Resat Sabik, Why this Mr.Ocaljan prisoned in turkish jail is looking at cameras and always telling absolutely opposite than he was fiercely telling
            Message 5 of 11 , Jan 9, 2000
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              Dear Mr.Resat Sabik,
              Why this Mr.Ocaljan prisoned in turkish jail is looking at cameras and
              always telling absolutely opposite than he was fiercely telling in a
              freedom? What do you think when he was telling what he wanted to in the jail
              or in a freedom?
              You are probably lucky person and didn't have a chance to be in a jail or
              captured.
              O.K. Can you guarantee forever that you'll tell at the cameras always only
              what you want to tell if you were in a positon of captured or prisoned
              without any legal assistance and without any guarantee that after that
              you'll survive.
              Where you saw also that victims after being captured by the bandits had had
              lawyers to trust to their confessions? I see you are western citizen but
              very easy you can suppose that it is convincing any "confessioon" taken by
              the bandits if these victims don't have bruises. Again I am asking why these
              unfortunate British engineers "confessed" that they are spyes and were
              beheaded by chechen bandits?
              Relatives of these victims bought from chechen bandits bodies of victims
              together (thanks God) with their separated heads.
              Dr. Vil Mirzayanov

              Resat Sabik wrote:

              > Although it's true that such a confession might have
              > been forced, i trust Chechens billions of times more
              > than russians. The high probability that russian KGB
              > itself exploded it's own people blaiming then Chechens
              > has been mentioned by political scientists since the
              > very beginning of the last genocide. One particualrly
              > interesting question was "Why Chechens stopped
              > explosions now as they suffer so much, if they had
              > made explosions when they didn't suffer?". Another
              > question was "What did they do(?) it for? It didn't
              > further their cause."
              >
              > I consider this tape to be decisive and concrete proof
              > of the KGB's genocide against Chechens, as well as
              > russians!!! (This is especially true if no serious
              > vestages of wounds or tortures were seen on the
              > confesser)
              >
              > Resat.
              >
              > > > I am sure that many of you will find this of
              > > interest.
              > > >
              > > > ******
              > > > Johnson's Russia List
              > > > #4014
              > > > 6 January 2000
              > > >
              > > > ******
              > > > #1
              > > > The Independent (UK)
              > > > 6 January 2000
              > > > [for personal use only]
              > > > By Helen Womack in Moscow
              > > > The Independent has obtained a videotape on which
              > > a Russian officer, captured
              > > > by the Chechens, "confesses" that Russian special
              > > services committed the
              > > > Moscow apartment-block bombings that ignited the
              > > latest war in Chechnya and
              > > > propelled Vladimir Putin into the Kremlin.
              > > > On the video, shot by a Turkish journalist last
              > > month before Grozny was
              > > > finally cut off by Russian forces, the captured
              > > Russian identifies himself as
              > > > Alexei Galtin of the GRU (Russian military
              > > intelligence service). The bearded
              > > > captive acknowledges as his own papers displayed
              > > by the Chechens that
              > > > identify him as a "Senior Lieutenant, Armed
              > > Special Services, General
              > > > Headquarters for Special Forces of the Russian
              > > Federation".
              > > > The Ministry of Defence was checking yesterday
              > > whetherthere was indeed such a
              > > > GRU officer. "Even if he exists, you understand
              > > what methods could have been
              > > > used on him in captivity," said a junior officer,
              > > who asked not to be named.
              > > > Colonel Yakov Firsov of the Ministry of Defence
              > > said on the record: "The
              > > > (Chechen) bandits feel their end is near and so
              > > they are using all manner of
              > > > dirty tricks in the information war. This is a
              > > provocation. This is rubbish.
              > > > The Russian armed forces protect the people. It is
              > > impossible that they would
              > > > attack their own people."
              > > > On the video, Lieutenant Galtin said he was
              > > captured at the border between
              > > > Dagestan and Chechnya while on a mine-laying
              > > mission. "I did not take part in
              > > > the explosions of the buildings in Moscow and
              > > Dagestan but I have information
              > > > about it. I know who is responsible for the
              > > bombings in Moscow (and
              > > > Dagestan). It is the FSB (Russian security
              > > service), in cooperation with the
              > > > GRU, that is responsible for the explosions in
              > > Volgodonsk and Moscow." He
              > > > then named other GRU officers.
              > > > Nearly 300 people died when four multi-storey
              > > apartment blocks were destroyed
              > > > by terrorist bombs in September. The attacks
              > > provoked Mr. Putin, appointed
              > > > prime minister the month before, to launch a new
              > > war in Chechnya.
              > > > Sedat Aral, a photographer with ISF News Pictures,
              > > said he shot the video in
              > > > a bunker in Grozny, where he met Abu Musayev, head
              > > of Chechen rebel
              > > > intelligence. Mr Musayev said the Chechens could
              > > prove they were not
              > > > responsible for the apartment-block bombings.
              > > > The Russian public backs the "anti-terrorist
              > > campaign" in Chechnya, which has
              > > > so boosted the popularity of its author, Mr Putin,
              > > that Boris Yeltsin has
              > > > retired early to make way for his chosen
              > > successor.
              > > > However the war started, the beneficiary is
              > > clearly Mr Putin. The former head
              > > > of Russia's domestic intelligence service is now
              > > poised to realise his
              > > > presidential ambitions.
              > > > ******
              > > >
              > > > Uli Schamiloglu
              > > > Associate Professor of Central Asian Studies
              > > > Department of Languages and Cultures of Asia
              > > > 1452 Van Hise Hall -- University of Wisconsin
              > > > 1220 Linden Drive, Madison, WI 53706 USA
              > > > tel. 1-608-262-7141 off.; 1-608-262-3012 dept.;
              > > 1-608-265-3538 fax
              > > > E-mail: uschamil@...
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              > > > Message from Tatar-L@egroups.com To unsubscribe
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            • Vil Mirzayanov
              So, let us not to sacrilege about the victims. Dr.Vil Mirzayanov
              Message 6 of 11 , Jan 9, 2000
              • 0 Attachment
                So, let us not to sacrilege about the victims.
                Dr.Vil Mirzayanov

                Resat Sabik wrote:

                > I wouldn't like my "luck" to befall on any decent
                > person, i'd like this "luck" to putin though. And
                > it'll be, in the postmortum, insha'Allah.
                >
                > --- Vil Mirzayanov <mirzayanov@...>
                > wrote:
                > > Dear Mr.Resat Sabik,
                > > Why this Mr.Ocaljan prisoned in turkish jail is
                > > looking at cameras and
                > > always telling absolutely opposite than he was
                > > fiercely telling in a
                > > freedom? What do you think when he was telling what
                > > he wanted to in the jail
                > > or in a freedom?
                > > You are probably lucky person and didn't have a
                > > chance to be in a jail or
                > > captured.
                > > O.K. Can you guarantee forever that you'll tell at
                > > the cameras always only
                > > what you want to tell if you were in a positon of
                > > captured or prisoned
                > > without any legal assistance and without any
                > > guarantee that after that
                > > you'll survive.
                > > Where you saw also that victims after being captured
                > > by the bandits had had
                > > lawyers to trust to their confessions? I see you
                > > are western citizen but
                > > very easy you can suppose that it is convincing any
                > > "confessioon" taken by
                > > the bandits if these victims don't have bruises.
                > > Again I am asking why these
                > > unfortunate British engineers "confessed" that they
                > > are spyes and were
                > > beheaded by chechen bandits?
                > > Relatives of these victims bought from chechen
                > > bandits bodies of victims
                > > together (thanks God) with their separated heads.
                > > Dr. Vil Mirzayanov
                > >
                > > Resat Sabik wrote:
                > >
                > > > Although it's true that such a confession might
                > > have
                > > > been forced, i trust Chechens billions of times
                > > more
                > > > than russians. The high probability that russian
                > > KGB
                > > > itself exploded it's own people blaiming then
                > > Chechens
                > > > has been mentioned by political scientists since
                > > the
                > > > very beginning of the last genocide. One
                > > particualrly
                > > > interesting question was "Why Chechens stopped
                > > > explosions now as they suffer so much, if they had
                > > > made explosions when they didn't suffer?". Another
                > > > question was "What did they do(?) it for? It
                > > didn't
                > > > further their cause."
                > > >
                > > > I consider this tape to be decisive and concrete
                > > proof
                > > > of the KGB's genocide against Chechens, as well as
                > > > russians!!! (This is especially true if no serious
                > > > vestages of wounds or tortures were seen on the
                > > > confesser)
                > > >
                > > > Resat.
                > > >
                > > > > > I am sure that many of you will find this of
                > > > > interest.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > ******
                > > > > > Johnson's Russia List
                > > > > > #4014
                > > > > > 6 January 2000
                > > > > >
                > > > > > ******
                > > > > > #1
                > > > > > The Independent (UK)
                > > > > > 6 January 2000
                > > > > > [for personal use only]
                > > > > > By Helen Womack in Moscow
                > > > > > The Independent has obtained a videotape on
                > > which
                > > > > a Russian officer, captured
                > > > > > by the Chechens, "confesses" that Russian
                > > special
                > > > > services committed the
                > > > > > Moscow apartment-block bombings that ignited
                > > the
                > > > > latest war in Chechnya and
                > > > > > propelled Vladimir Putin into the Kremlin.
                > > > > > On the video, shot by a Turkish journalist
                > > last
                > > > > month before Grozny was
                > > > > > finally cut off by Russian forces, the
                > > captured
                > > > > Russian identifies himself as
                > > > > > Alexei Galtin of the GRU (Russian military
                > > > > intelligence service). The bearded
                > > > > > captive acknowledges as his own papers
                > > displayed
                > > > > by the Chechens that
                > > > > > identify him as a "Senior Lieutenant, Armed
                > > > > Special Services, General
                > > > > > Headquarters for Special Forces of the Russian
                > > > > Federation".
                > > > > > The Ministry of Defence was checking yesterday
                > > > > whetherthere was indeed such a
                > > > > > GRU officer. "Even if he exists, you
                > > understand
                > > > > what methods could have been
                > > > > > used on him in captivity," said a junior
                > > officer,
                > > > > who asked not to be named.
                > > > > > Colonel Yakov Firsov of the Ministry of
                > > Defence
                > > > > said on the record: "The
                > > > > > (Chechen) bandits feel their end is near and
                > > so
                > > > > they are using all manner of
                > > > > > dirty tricks in the information war. This is a
                > > > > provocation. This is rubbish.
                > > > > > The Russian armed forces protect the people.
                > > It is
                > > > > impossible that they would
                > > > > > attack their own people."
                > > > > > On the video, Lieutenant Galtin said he was
                > > > > captured at the border between
                > > > > > Dagestan and Chechnya while on a mine-laying
                > > > > mission. "I did not take part in
                > > > > > the explosions of the buildings in Moscow and
                > > > > Dagestan but I have information
                > > > > > about it. I know who is responsible for the
                > > > > bombings in Moscow (and
                > > > > > Dagestan). It is the FSB (Russian security
                > > > > service), in cooperation with the
                > > > > > GRU, that is responsible for the explosions in
                > > > > Volgodonsk and Moscow." He
                > > > > > then named other GRU officers.
                > > > > > Nearly 300 people died when four multi-storey
                > > > > apartment blocks were destroyed
                > > > > > by terrorist bombs in September. The attacks
                > > > > provoked Mr. Putin, appointed
                > > > > > prime minister the month before, to launch a
                > > new
                > > > > war in Chechnya.
                > > > > > Sedat Aral, a photographer with ISF News
                > > Pictures,
                > > > > said he shot the video in
                > > > > > a bunker in Grozny, where he met Abu Musayev,
                > > head
                > > > > of Chechen rebel
                > > > > > intelligence. Mr Musayev said the Chechens
                > > could
                > > > > prove they were not
                > > > > > responsible for the apartment-block bombings.
                > > > > > The Russian public backs the "anti-terrorist
                > > > > campaign" in Chechnya, which has
                > > > > > so boosted the popularity of its author, Mr
                > > Putin,
                > > > > that Boris Yeltsin has
                > > > > > retired early to make way for his chosen
                > > > > successor.
                > > > > > However the war started, the beneficiary is
                > > > > clearly Mr Putin. The former head
                > > > > > of Russia's domestic intelligence service is
                > > now
                > > > > poised to realise his
                > > > > > presidential ambitions.
                > > > > > ******
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Uli Schamiloglu
                > > > > > Associate Professor of Central Asian Studies
                > > > > > Department of Languages and Cultures of Asia
                > > > > > 1452 Van Hise Hall -- University of Wisconsin
                > > > > > 1220 Linden Drive, Madison, WI 53706 USA
                > > > > > tel. 1-608-262-7141 off.; 1-608-262-3012
                > > dept.;
                > > > > 1-608-265-3538 fax
                > > > > > E-mail: uschamil@...
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                > > > > > Message from Tatar-L@egroups.com To
                > > unsubscribe
                > > > > send a blank message
                > > > > > to Tatar-L-Unsubscribe@egroups.com
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                > > > > > Want to send money instantly to anyone,
                > > anywhere,
                > > > > anytime?
                > > > > >
                > > > > > You can today at X.com - and we'll give you
                > > $20 to
                > > > > try it! Sign
                > > > > >
                > > > > > up today at X.com. It's quick, free, &
                > > there's no
                > >
                > === message truncated ===
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              • Vil Mirzayanov
                You know exactly that I am naming those bandits who are kidnapping ,selling innocent people like Britain engineers and behading them when relatives don t have
                Message 7 of 11 , Jan 9, 2000
                • 0 Attachment
                  You know exactly that I am naming those bandits who are kidnapping
                  ,selling innocent people like Britain engineers and behading them when
                  relatives don't have enough money to pay. They are persons like Shamil
                  Basaev, Chattab and others who captured the power in Chechnya. By the
                  way why Turkic media is keeping silence against the russian genocide. Is
                  it in so called union with russian's because of last one doesn't cover
                  up kurdish genocide?
                  Regards,
                  Dr.Vil Mirzayanov

                  Ravil Selihmet wrote:

                  > Now I have seen and read it all! Mr. Vil Mirzayan, the disciple of
                  > Dr. Sakharov( for whom I have the utmost respect) now calls the
                  > Chechens, fighting for their freedom bandits!! May I ask him humbly,
                  > and what do you call the Russians, who are commiting Genocide in
                  > Chechenya?Ravil Selihmet-----Original Message-----
                  > From: Vil Mirzayanov <mirzayanov@...>
                  > To: Resat Sabik <turktatar@...>
                  > Cc: tatar-l@egroups.com <tatar-l@egroups.com>
                  > Date: Sunday, January 09, 2000 4:24 PM
                  > Subject: [tatar-l] Re: article on bombings in Moscow
                  >
                  >

                  Dear Mr.Resat Sabik,
                  Why this Mr.Ocaljan prisoned in turkish jail is looking at cameras and
                  always telling absolutely opposite than he was fiercely telling in a
                  freedom? What do you think when he was telling what he wanted to in the jail
                  or in a freedom?
                  You are probably lucky person and didn't have a chance to be in a jail or
                  captured.
                  O.K. Can you guarantee forever that you'll tell at the cameras always only
                  what you want to tell if you were in a positon of captured or prisoned
                  without any legal assistance and without any guarantee that after that
                  you'll survive.
                  Where you saw also that victims after being captured by the bandits had had
                  lawyers to trust to their confessions? I see you are western citizen but
                  very easy you can suppose that it is convincing any "confessioon" taken by
                  the bandits if these victims don't have bruises. Again I am asking why these
                  unfortunate British engineers "confessed" that they are spyes and were
                  beheaded by chechen bandits?
                  Relatives of these victims bought from chechen bandits bodies of victims
                  together (thanks God) with their separated heads.
                  Dr. Vil Mirzayanov

                  Resat Sabik wrote:

                  > Although it's true that such a confession might have
                  > been forced, i trust Chechens billions of times more
                  > than russians. The high probability that russian KGB
                  > itself exploded it's own people blaiming then Chechens
                  > has been mentioned by political scientists since the
                  > very beginning of the last genocide. One particualrly
                  > interesting question was "Why Chechens stopped
                  > explosions now as they suffer so much, if they had
                  > made explosions when they didn't suffer?". Another
                  > question was "What did they do(?) it for? It didn't
                  > further their cause."
                  >
                  > I consider this tape to be decisive and concrete proof
                  > of the KGB's genocide against Chechens, as well as
                  > russians!!! (This is especially true if no serious
                  > vestages of wounds or tortures were seen on the
                  > confesser)
                  >
                  > Resat.
                  >
                  > > > I am sure that many of you will find this of
                  > > interest.
                  > > >
                  > > > ******
                  > > > Johnson's Russia List
                  > > > #4014
                  > > > 6 January 2000
                  > > >
                  > > > ******
                  > > > #1
                  > > > The Independent (UK)
                  > > > 6 January 2000
                  > > > [for personal use only]
                  > > > By Helen Womack in Moscow
                  > > > The Independent has obtained a videotape on which
                  > > a Russian officer, captured
                  > > > by the Chechens, "confesses" that Russian special
                  > > services committed the
                  > > > Moscow apartment-block bombings that ignited the
                  > > latest war in Chechnya and
                  > > > propelled Vladimir Putin into the Kremlin.
                  > > > On the video, shot by a Turkish journalist last
                  > > month before Grozny was
                  > > > finally cut off by Russian forces, the captured
                  > > Russian identifies himself as
                  > > > Alexei Galtin of the GRU (Russian military
                  > > intelligence service). The bearded
                  > > > captive acknowledges as his own papers displayed
                  > > by the Chechens that
                  > > > identify him as a "Senior Lieutenant, Armed
                  > > Special Services, General
                  > > > Headquarters for Special Forces of the Russian
                  > > Federation".
                  > > > The Ministry of Defence was checking yesterday
                  > > whetherthere was indeed such a
                  > > > GRU officer. "Even if he exists, you understand
                  > > what methods could have been
                  > > > used on him in captivity," said a junior officer,
                  > > who asked not to be named.
                  > > > Colonel Yakov Firsov of the Ministry of Defence
                  > > said on the record: "The
                  > > > (Chechen) bandits feel their end is near and so
                  > > they are using all manner of
                  > > > dirty tricks in the information war. This is a
                  > > provocation. This is rubbish.
                  > > > The Russian armed forces protect the people. It is
                  > > impossible that they would
                  > > > attack their own people."
                  > > > On the video, Lieutenant Galtin said he was
                  > > captured at the border between
                  > > > Dagestan and Chechnya while on a mine-laying
                  > > mission. "I did not take part in
                  > > > the explosions of the buildings in Moscow and
                  > > Dagestan but I have information
                  > > > about it. I know who is responsible for the
                  > > bombings in Moscow (and
                  > > > Dagestan). It is the FSB (Russian security
                  > > service), in cooperation with the
                  > > > GRU, that is responsible for the explosions in
                  > > Volgodonsk and Moscow." He
                  > > > then named other GRU officers.
                  > > > Nearly 300 people died when four multi-storey
                  > > apartment blocks were destroyed
                  > > > by terrorist bombs in September. The attacks
                  > > provoked Mr. Putin, appointed
                  > > > prime minister the month before, to launch a new
                  > > war in Chechnya.
                  > > > Sedat Aral, a photographer with ISF News Pictures,
                  > > said he shot the video in
                  > > > a bunker in Grozny, where he met Abu Musayev, head
                  > > of Chechen rebel
                  > > > intelligence. Mr Musayev said the Chechens could
                  > > prove they were not
                  > > > responsible for the apartment-block bombings.
                  > > > The Russian public backs the "anti-terrorist
                  > > campaign" in Chechnya, which has
                  > > > so boosted the popularity of its author, Mr Putin,
                  > > that Boris Yeltsin has
                  > > > retired early to make way for his chosen
                  > > successor.
                  > > > However the war started, the beneficiary is
                  > > clearly Mr Putin. The former head
                  > > > of Russia's domestic intelligence service is now
                  > > poised to realise his
                  > > > presidential ambitions.
                  > > > ******
                  > > >
                  > > > Uli Schamiloglu
                  > > > Associate Professor of Central Asian Studies
                  > > > Department of Languages and Cultures of Asia
                  > > > 1452 Van Hise Hall -- University of Wisconsin
                  > > > 1220 Linden Drive, Madison, WI 53706 USA
                  > > > tel. 1-608-262-7141 off.; 1-608-262-3012 dept.;
                  > > 1-608-265-3538 fax
                  > > > E-mail: uschamil@...
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  > > > Message from Tatar-L@egroups.com To unsubscribe
                  > > send a blank message
                  > > > to Tatar-L-Unsubscribe@egroups.com
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  > > > Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere,
                  > > anytime?
                  > > >
                  > > > You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to
                  > > try it! Sign
                  > > >
                  > > > up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no
                  > > obligation!
                  > > >
                  > > http://click.egroups.com/1/332/1/_/25469/_/947185456
                  > > >
                  > > > -- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document
                  > > Vault
                  > > > -- http://www.egroups.com/docvault/tatar-l/?m=1
                  > >
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                • Igor Sagdeev
                  ... Hard to believe it - but I am completely in agreement with Dr. Mirzayanov here. Indeed, our enemy s enemy isn t *automatically* our friend, and sometimes
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jan 9, 2000
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                    Dr. Mirzayanov wrote:

                    > You know exactly that I am naming those bandits who are kidnapping
                    > ,selling innocent people like Britain engineers and behading them when
                    > relatives don't have enough money to pay. They are persons like Shamil
                    > Basaev, Chattab and others who captured the power in Chechnya.

                    Hard to believe it - but I am completely in agreement with Dr. Mirzayanov
                    here.
                    Indeed, our enemy's enemy isn't *automatically* our friend, and sometimes
                    there
                    can be more than one wrong side in a conflict...

                    No indignation against Putin't war (with its indiscriminate bombing and
                    marauding troops)
                    can paint hostage-takers and professional robbers as snow-white
                    freedom-fighters.

                    Yours, Igor
                  • Ravil Selihmet
                    Dear Mr. Vil Mirzayan ... From: Vil Mirzayanov To: Ravil Selihmet Cc: Resat Sabik ;
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jan 10, 2000
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                      Dear Mr. Vil Mirzayan
                      Keep on with this demagogery, as this also shows your ignorance as demontrated below:
                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Vil Mirzayanov <mirzayanov@...>
                      To: Ravil Selihmet <selihmet@...>
                      Cc: Resat Sabik <turktatar@...>; tatar-l@egroups.com <tatar-l@egroups.com>
                      Date: Sunday, January 09, 2000 8:04 PM
                      Subject: [tatar-l] Re: article on bombings in Moscow

                       By the
                      way why Turkic media is keeping silence against the russian genocide. Is
                      it in so called union with russian's because of last one doesn't cover
                      up kurdish genocide?
                      Regards,
                      Dr.Vil > > 
                      Sir:
                        
                      You obviously do not read the Turkish Newspapers. They 
                      definitely are not quiet or complacent on the subject. Having ,
                       through your own statements
                      becoming in 4 short days an "expert" on Ocalan & Kurdish affairs, it won't
                       take you too long to become world expert on the Turkish Press too.
                      By the way you answered only one part of my original question and failed 
                      through oversite or purpose to answer the following
                      ""May I ask him(Vil efendi) humbly, and what do you call the Russians,
                       who are commiting Genocide in Chechenya?""
                      Ravil Selihmet
                      

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                    • Vil Mirzayanov
                      You know exactly I ve written many times that russians are committing genocide of chechen people as well turks committing against curds. There is no
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jan 10, 2000
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                        You know exactly I've written many times that russians are committing
                        genocide of chechen people as well turks committing against curds.
                        There is no difference. I also had written that the minorities in Russia
                        have rights to study in the schools in their language, issue newspapers.
                        They have also their theaters, radio, TV and the authonomy. But all this
                        minorities absolutely don't have in your democratic Turkey. Is it
                        demagogery? But it would be more nice to respond to your opponent with
                        facts but not with insultings. The last ones I think are not values of
                        Western democracy which you are enjoing in USA not in Turkey.
                        Sure, I am not specialist on turkic media. But if you don't know what
                        exactly did say turkic government about Chechnya genocide I can you
                        remind. It said that Chechny's issue is the internal problem of Russia
                        and it recognizes a territorial integrality of Russia. Am I wrong? Is it
                        a demagogery?
                        Last one. If you are so great supporter of the Chechnya's Independence
                        why you didn't come when I ( I am not USA citizen) had organized a
                        demonstration in front of the USA Senat Building in summer 98 with the
                        transparency: " No penny for Chechnya War!" Why you are not going to the
                        russian consulate in Washington or New York to express your opinion?
                        You are a USA citizen and nobody will prosecute you for this you know.
                        Instead you are trying to prove me that you are a supporter of Chechnya.
                        Sure, every deed is much more difficult than an insulting your opponent
                        by e-mail. So go ahead Mr.Ravil and act for support of Chechnya. It
                        would be more honest and everybody would respect you for this.
                        Dr. Vil Mirzayanov

                        Ravil Selihmet wrote:

                        > Dear Mr. Vil MirzayanKeep on with this demagogery, as this also shows
                        > your ignorance as demontrated below:-----Original Message-----
                        > From: Vil Mirzayanov <mirzayanov@...>
                        > To: Ravil Selihmet <selihmet@...>
                        > Cc: Resat Sabik <turktatar@...>; tatar-l@egroups.com
                        > <tatar-l@egroups.com>
                        > Date: Sunday, January 09, 2000 8:04 PM
                        > Subject: [tatar-l] Re: article on bombings in Moscow
                        >
                        >

                        By the
                        way why Turkic media is keeping silence against the russian genocide. Is
                        it in so called union with russian's because of last one doesn't cover
                        up kurdish genocide?
                        Regards,
                        Dr.Vil > >

                        Sir:


                        You obviously do not read the Turkish Newspapers. They

                        definitely are not quiet or complacent on the subject. Having ,

                        through your own statements

                        becoming in 4 short days an "expert" on Ocalan & Kurdish affairs, it won't

                        take you too long to become world expert on the Turkish Press too.

                        By the way you answered only one part of my original question and failed

                        through oversite or purpose to answer the following

                        ""May I ask him(Vil efendi) humbly, and what do you call the Russians,

                        who are commiting Genocide in Chechenya?""

                        Ravil Selihmet

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