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Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

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  • victorysnear
    I know it s been a very hard job for all those wonderful ex sahaja yogis to keep this place working. You ve given so much to others here! I ll never thank you
    Message 1 of 29 , Jan 16, 2011
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      I know it's been a very hard job for all those wonderful ex sahaja yogis to keep this place working. You've given so much to others here! I'll never thank you enough.
      Even though, I think time has come to change this place. Make a Blog out of it. Keep the memory of your past for other victims of this dreadful cult and don't let this place fall into the hands of sy cult. I know each of you has your own busy life, you're so clever and bright, interested in your families, in culture and in fun too. You have moved on, I know. You deserve it. But the work you've done must be kept for others until sy disapears, it won't be a long time, victory's near...
      My regards to TASY group
      Vic

      --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, isaac iba <iba22000@...> wrote:
      >
      > hi noé, i'm too here in this group to talk about my deeply experiences with
      > sahaja yoga ,i think we are so lucky to be a sahaja yogi ,but a good because
      > many persons whose was abuse with a false or bad sahaja yogi have now a bad
      > experience about sahaja yoga and some of them who wasn't a true seekers feel
      > deception but i want to encourage you to be sincere with the relationship
      > between you and the mother kundalini whose have been awakened by the power of
      > shri mataji...
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > De : Noe Fosso Kamga <nfossokamga@...>
      > À : talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
      > Envoyé le : Mer 15 décembre 2010, 15h 06min 45s
      > Objet : [talk-about-sy] comments
      >
      >
      > Hi, my name is Fosso Kamga Noe.I have been a sahaja yogi since five years.I want
      > here in this group, to talk about what I feel in sahaja yoga.I want to say what
      > great bliss is the work doing by Shri mataji. and I hope, all of members of the
      > group, will understand and share with me.
      >
    • talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.
      Hey still alive and kicking... check out www.shri-mataji.org and www.sahajayogafacs.info cheers s.
      Message 2 of 29 , Jan 27, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        Hey
        still alive and kicking...
        check out www.shri-mataji.org and www.sahajayogafacs.info

        cheers
        s.


        --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, "victorysnear" <victorysnear@...> wrote:
        >
        > I know it's been a very hard job for all those wonderful ex sahaja yogis to keep this place working. You've given so much to others here! I'll never thank you enough.
        > Even though, I think time has come to change this place. Make a Blog out of it. Keep the memory of your past for other victims of this dreadful cult and don't let this place fall into the hands of sy cult. I know each of you has your own busy life, you're so clever and bright, interested in your families, in culture and in fun too. You have moved on, I know. You deserve it. But the work you've done must be kept for others until sy disapears, it won't be a long time, victory's near...
        > My regards to TASY group
        > Vic
        >
        > --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, isaac iba <iba22000@> wrote:
        > >
        > > hi noé, i'm too here in this group to talk about my deeply experiences with
        > > sahaja yoga ,i think we are so lucky to be a sahaja yogi ,but a good because
        > > many persons whose was abuse with a false or bad sahaja yogi have now a bad
        > > experience about sahaja yoga and some of them who wasn't a true seekers feel
        > > deception but i want to encourage you to be sincere with the relationship
        > > between you and the mother kundalini whose have been awakened by the power of
        > > shri mataji...
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ________________________________
        > > De : Noe Fosso Kamga <nfossokamga@>
        > > À : talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
        > > Envoyé le : Mer 15 décembre 2010, 15h 06min 45s
        > > Objet : [talk-about-sy] comments
        > >
        > >
        > > Hi, my name is Fosso Kamga Noe.I have been a sahaja yogi since five years.I want
        > > here in this group, to talk about what I feel in sahaja yoga.I want to say what
        > > great bliss is the work doing by Shri mataji. and I hope, all of members of the
        > > group, will understand and share with me.
        > >
        >
      • Yogini Kumar
         The main thing I have learned is that one is ONE within spirit and and even kundalini is part of creation.  Vibrations I have found are not that much above
        Message 3 of 29 , Feb 18, 2011
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           The main thing I have learned is that one is ONE within spirit and and even kundalini is part of creation.  Vibrations I have found are not that much above thinking..that if you keep relying on such, you will be stuck in a web of negative and positive which is duality...it doesn not make you go that much higher than that.  Only connecting to the spirit totally without any distractions of the outside will one find the most powerful energy which is spirit and that is who we are.  It is unfair to claim that ex-members are not true seekers. All are spirit and all will get there! There are no chose ones.  All are chosen and all will arrive sooner or later because God is everyone of us non excluded!!!
           I felt stuck after a while of not seeing any improvements on me or my sahaj siblings...all were so distracted trying to organize the group.  I no longer felt I was "evolving" at that slow pace.  Eventually we have to unplug from all group systems and unite as one...spirit doesnt know any name such as sahaja yoga..it is still creation...while spirit observes many things are created.  It is really true that when in a group one goes with the 'flock" and does not really take responsability to get rid of fears etc.   I found that I was afraid to leave sahaja yoga scared that I would no longer feel vibrations...well guess what....I feel an amazing energy which is my spirit and incredible intuition much more powerful than I ever did before.   ALl is a part of evolution and so was SY for me..but that is not the ultimate.  There are no rights and wrongs and no mistakes in life...nothing I regret....but I am not staying in the fears of group conditionings.  I wish all would see how many conditionings you have aquired in SY too...and how much you fear to even hug your parents who are not in sahaja yoga because they have negativity?  isnt this fear?  how can your heart be open with that kind of fear?  if we separate we are not being in spirit...anything that separates is ego!  non-sahaja yogies vs sahaja yogies IS separation...and that fear will limit you.  It is your choice.  I love the entire world and feel all in me and me in all. 

          --- On Fri, 1/28/11, talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

          From: talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com>
          Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
          To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
          Received: Friday, January 28, 2011, 7:00 AM

           

          Hey
          still alive and kicking...
          check out www.shri-mataji.org and www.sahajayogafacs.info

          cheers
          s.

          --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, "victorysnear" <victorysnear@...> wrote:
          >
          > I know it's been a very hard job for all those wonderful ex sahaja yogis to keep this place working. You've given so much to others here! I'll never thank you enough.
          > Even though, I think time has come to change this place. Make a Blog out of it. Keep the memory of your past for other victims of this dreadful cult and don't let this place fall into the hands of sy cult. I know each of you has your own busy life, you're so clever and bright, interested in your families, in culture and in fun too. You have moved on, I know. You deserve it. But the work you've done must be kept for others until sy disapears, it won't be a long time, victory's near...
          > My regards to TASY group
          > Vic
          >
          > --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, isaac iba <iba22000@> wrote:
          > >
          > > hi noé, i'm too here in this group to talk about my deeply experiences with
          > > sahaja yoga ,i think we are so lucky to be a sahaja yogi ,but a good because
          > > many persons whose was abuse with a false or bad sahaja yogi have now a bad
          > > experience about sahaja yoga and some of them who wasn't a true seekers feel
          > > deception but i want to encourage you to be sincere with the relationship
          > > between you and the mother kundalini whose have been awakened by the power of
          > > shri mataji...
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ________________________________
          > > De : Noe Fosso Kamga <nfossokamga@>
          > > À : talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
          > > Envoyé le : Mer 15 décembre 2010, 15h 06min 45s
          > > Objet : [talk-about-sy] comments
          > >
          > >
          > > Hi, my name is Fosso Kamga Noe.I have been a sahaja yogi since five years.I want
          > > here in this group, to talk about what I feel in sahaja yoga.I want to say what
          > > great bliss is the work doing by Shri mataji. and I hope, all of members of the
          > > group, will understand and share with me.
          > >
          >


        • Clive Bates
          Sahaja Yoga is a state of being, Shri Mataji has always taught from that perspective...hence the essence of absloute truth being in all things. It s only the
          Message 4 of 29 , Feb 18, 2011
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            Sahaja Yoga is a state of being, Shri Mataji has always taught from that perspective...hence the essence of absloute truth being in all things. It's only the mind that interprets things wrongly.



            From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
            To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 19:19:59
            Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

             

             The main thing I have learned is that one is ONE within spirit and and even kundalini is part of creation.  Vibrations I have found are not that much above thinking..that if you keep relying on such, you will be stuck in a web of negative and positive which is duality...it doesn not make you go that much higher than that.  Only connecting to the spirit totally without any distractions of the outside will one find the most powerful energy which is spirit and that is who we are.  It is unfair to claim that ex-members are not true seekers. All are spirit and all will get there! There are no chose ones.  All are chosen and all will arrive sooner or later because God is everyone of us non excluded!!!
             I felt stuck after a while of not seeing any improvements on me or my sahaj siblings...all were so distracted trying to organize the group.  I no longer felt I was "evolving" at that slow pace.  Eventually we have to unplug from all group systems and unite as one...spirit doesnt know any name such as sahaja yoga..it is still creation...while spirit observes many things are created.  It is really true that when in a group one goes with the 'flock" and does not really take responsability to get rid of fears etc.   I found that I was afraid to leave sahaja yoga scared that I would no longer feel vibrations...well guess what....I feel an amazing energy which is my spirit and incredible intuition much more powerful than I ever did before.   ALl is a part of evolution and so was SY for me..but that is not the ultimate.  There are no rights and wrongs and no mistakes in life...nothing I regret....but I am not staying in the fears of group conditionings.  I wish all would see how many conditionings you have aquired in SY too...and how much you fear to even hug your parents who are not in sahaja yoga because they have negativity?  isnt this fear?  how can your heart be open with that kind of fear?  if we separate we are not being in spirit...anything that separates is ego!  non-sahaja yogies vs sahaja yogies IS separation...and that fear will limit you.  It is your choice.  I love the entire world and feel all in me and me in all. 

            --- On Fri, 1/28/11, talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

            From: talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com>
            Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
            To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
            Received: Friday, January 28, 2011, 7:00 AM

             

            Hey
            still alive and kicking...
            check out www.shri-mataji.org and www.sahajayogafacs.info

            cheers
            s.

            --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, "victorysnear" <victorysnear@...> wrote:
            >
            > I know it's been a very hard job for all those wonderful ex sahaja yogis to keep this place working. You've given so much to others here! I'll never thank you enough.
            > Even though, I think time has come to change this place. Make a Blog out of it. Keep the memory of your past for other victims of this dreadful cult and don't let this place fall into the hands of sy cult. I know each of you has your own busy life, you're so clever and bright, interested in your families, in culture and in fun too. You have moved on, I know. You deserve it. But the work you've done must be kept for others until sy disapears, it won't be a long time, victory's near...
            > My regards to TASY group
            > Vic
            >
            > --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, isaac iba <iba22000@> wrote:
            > >
            > > hi noé, i'm too here in this group to talk about my deeply experiences with
            > > sahaja yoga ,i think we are so lucky to be a sahaja yogi ,but a good because
            > > many persons whose was abuse with a false or bad sahaja yogi have now a bad
            > > experience about sahaja yoga and some of them who wasn't a true seekers feel
            > > deception but i want to encourage you to be sincere with the relationship
            > > between you and the mother kundalini whose have been awakened by the power of
            > > shri mataji...
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ________________________________
            > > De : Noe Fosso Kamga <nfossokamga@>
            > > À : talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
            > > Envoyé le : Mer 15 décembre 2010, 15h 06min 45s
            > > Objet : [talk-about-sy] comments
            > >
            > >
            > > Hi, my name is Fosso Kamga Noe.I have been a sahaja yogi since five years.I want
            > > here in this group, to talk about what I feel in sahaja yoga.I want to say what
            > > great bliss is the work doing by Shri mataji. and I hope, all of members of the
            > > group, will understand and share with me.
            > >
            >


          • Yogini Kumar
            Yes...but are all BEINGS IN Sahaja yoga?  does beingness require that one should be a Sahaja Yogi?  Is existance without meaning without Sahaja Yoga? Sahaja
            Message 5 of 29 , Feb 18, 2011
            • 0 Attachment

              Yes...but are all BEINGS IN Sahaja yoga?  does beingness require that one should be a Sahaja Yogi?  Is existance without meaning without Sahaja Yoga? Sahaja Yoga is a teaching or the return to our selves, but we should graduate at some point, just like you do from school.  Become truly your own master and rely on your inner self.
              --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

              From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
              Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
              To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
              Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 8:48 PM

               
              Sahaja Yoga is a state of being, Shri Mataji has always taught from that perspective...hence the essence of absloute truth being in all things. It's only the mind that interprets things wrongly.



              From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
              To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 19:19:59
              Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

               
               The main thing I have learned is that one is ONE within spirit and and even kundalini is part of creation.  Vibrations I have found are not that much above thinking..that if you keep relying on such, you will be stuck in a web of negative and positive which is duality...it doesn not make you go that much higher than that.  Only connecting to the spirit totally without any distractions of the outside will one find the most powerful energy which is spirit and that is who we are.  It is unfair to claim that ex-members are not true seekers. All are spirit and all will get there! There are no chose ones.  All are chosen and all will arrive sooner or later because God is everyone of us non excluded!!!
               I felt stuck after a while of not seeing any improvements on me or my sahaj siblings...all were so distracted trying to organize the group.  I no longer felt I was "evolving" at that slow pace.  Eventually we have to unplug from all group systems and unite as one...spirit doesnt know any name such as sahaja yoga..it is still creation...while spirit observes many things are created.  It is really true that when in a group one goes with the 'flock" and does not really take responsability to get rid of fears etc.   I found that I was afraid to leave sahaja yoga scared that I would no longer feel vibrations...well guess what....I feel an amazing energy which is my spirit and incredible intuition much more powerful than I ever did before.   ALl is a part of evolution and so was SY for me..but that is not the ultimate.  There are no rights and wrongs and no mistakes in life...nothing I regret....but I am not staying in the fears of group conditionings.  I wish all would see how many conditionings you have aquired in SY too...and how much you fear to even hug your parents who are not in sahaja yoga because they have negativity?  isnt this fear?  how can your heart be open with that kind of fear?  if we separate we are not being in spirit...anything that separates is ego!  non-sahaja yogies vs sahaja yogies IS separation...and that fear will limit you.  It is your choice.  I love the entire world and feel all in me and me in all. 

              --- On Fri, 1/28/11, talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

              From: talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com>
              Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
              To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
              Received: Friday, January 28, 2011, 7:00 AM

               

              Hey
              still alive and kicking...
              check out www.shri-mataji.org and www.sahajayogafacs.info

              cheers
              s.

              --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, "victorysnear" <victorysnear@...> wrote:
              >
              > I know it's been a very hard job for all those wonderful ex sahaja yogis to keep this place working. You've given so much to others here! I'll never thank you enough.
              > Even though, I think time has come to change this place. Make a Blog out of it. Keep the memory of your past for other victims of this dreadful cult and don't let this place fall into the hands of sy cult. I know each of you has your own busy life, you're so clever and bright, interested in your families, in culture and in fun too. You have moved on, I know. You deserve it. But the work you've done must be kept for others until sy disapears, it won't be a long time, victory's near...
              > My regards to TASY group
              > Vic
              >
              > --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, isaac iba <iba22000@> wrote:
              > >
              > > hi noé, i'm too here in this group to talk about my deeply experiences with
              > > sahaja yoga ,i think we are so lucky to be a sahaja yogi ,but a good because
              > > many persons whose was abuse with a false or bad sahaja yogi have now a bad
              > > experience about sahaja yoga and some of them who wasn't a true seekers feel
              > > deception but i want to encourage you to be sincere with the relationship
              > > between you and the mother kundalini whose have been awakened by the power of
              > > shri mataji...
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ________________________________
              > > De : Noe Fosso Kamga <nfossokamga@>
              > > À : talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
              > > Envoyé le : Mer 15 décembre 2010, 15h 06min 45s
              > > Objet : [talk-about-sy] comments
              > >
              > >
              > > Hi, my name is Fosso Kamga Noe.I have been a sahaja yogi since five years.I want
              > > here in this group, to talk about what I feel in sahaja yoga.I want to say what
              > > great bliss is the work doing by Shri mataji. and I hope, all of members of the
              > > group, will understand and share with me.
              > >
              >



            • Yogini Kumar
              In other words, Sahaja Yoga has NOTHING to do with beingness and existance..it is for some, a way to get to  THEIR OWN awareness but it is not awareness
              Message 6 of 29 , Feb 18, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                In other words, Sahaja Yoga has NOTHING to do with beingness and existance..it is for some, a way to get to  THEIR OWN awareness but it is not awareness itself nor beingness itself.  It is still a lable and an illusion, and so the same would be any Guru...a finger pointing at the moon is not the moon.  All ends up in "I AM"  God is also "I AM" and so is each of us..meaning all is the same, us, incarnations,all the same! " I AM" is the basis and that can happen to anyone at any point in time when one is ready by any means, not just Sahaja Yoga.  I have met very mature saintly people who havent even heard of Sahaja Yoga. 

                --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...> wrote:

                From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 9:46 PM

                 

                Yes...but are all BEINGS IN Sahaja yoga?  does beingness require that one should be a Sahaja Yogi?  Is existance without meaning without Sahaja Yoga? Sahaja Yoga is a teaching or the return to our selves, but we should graduate at some point, just like you do from school.  Become truly your own master and rely on your inner self.
                --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 8:48 PM

                 
                Sahaja Yoga is a state of being, Shri Mataji has always taught from that perspective...hence the essence of absloute truth being in all things. It's only the mind that interprets things wrongly.



                From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 19:19:59
                Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                 
                 The main thing I have learned is that one is ONE within spirit and and even kundalini is part of creation.  Vibrations I have found are not that much above thinking..that if you keep relying on such, you will be stuck in a web of negative and positive which is duality...it doesn not make you go that much higher than that.  Only connecting to the spirit totally without any distractions of the outside will one find the most powerful energy which is spirit and that is who we are.  It is unfair to claim that ex-members are not true seekers. All are spirit and all will get there! There are no chose ones.  All are chosen and all will arrive sooner or later because God is everyone of us non excluded!!!
                 I felt stuck after a while of not seeing any improvements on me or my sahaj siblings...all were so distracted trying to organize the group.  I no longer felt I was "evolving" at that slow pace.  Eventually we have to unplug from all group systems and unite as one...spirit doesnt know any name such as sahaja yoga..it is still creation...while spirit observes many things are created.  It is really true that when in a group one goes with the 'flock" and does not really take responsability to get rid of fears etc.   I found that I was afraid to leave sahaja yoga scared that I would no longer feel vibrations...well guess what....I feel an amazing energy which is my spirit and incredible intuition much more powerful than I ever did before.   ALl is a part of evolution and so was SY for me..but that is not the ultimate.  There are no rights and wrongs and no mistakes in life...nothing I regret....but I am not staying in the fears of group conditionings.  I wish all would see how many conditionings you have aquired in SY too...and how much you fear to even hug your parents who are not in sahaja yoga because they have negativity?  isnt this fear?  how can your heart be open with that kind of fear?  if we separate we are not being in spirit...anything that separates is ego!  non-sahaja yogies vs sahaja yogies IS separation...and that fear will limit you.  It is your choice.  I love the entire world and feel all in me and me in all. 

                --- On Fri, 1/28/11, talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                From: talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com>
                Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                Received: Friday, January 28, 2011, 7:00 AM

                 

                Hey
                still alive and kicking...
                check out www.shri-mataji.org and www.sahajayogafacs.info

                cheers
                s.

                --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, "victorysnear" <victorysnear@...> wrote:
                >
                > I know it's been a very hard job for all those wonderful ex sahaja yogis to keep this place working. You've given so much to others here! I'll never thank you enough.
                > Even though, I think time has come to change this place. Make a Blog out of it. Keep the memory of your past for other victims of this dreadful cult and don't let this place fall into the hands of sy cult. I know each of you has your own busy life, you're so clever and bright, interested in your families, in culture and in fun too. You have moved on, I know. You deserve it. But the work you've done must be kept for others until sy disapears, it won't be a long time, victory's near...
                > My regards to TASY group
                > Vic
                >
                > --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, isaac iba <iba22000@> wrote:
                > >
                > > hi noé, i'm too here in this group to talk about my deeply experiences with
                > > sahaja yoga ,i think we are so lucky to be a sahaja yogi ,but a good because
                > > many persons whose was abuse with a false or bad sahaja yogi have now a bad
                > > experience about sahaja yoga and some of them who wasn't a true seekers feel
                > > deception but i want to encourage you to be sincere with the relationship
                > > between you and the mother kundalini whose have been awakened by the power of
                > > shri mataji...
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ________________________________
                > > De : Noe Fosso Kamga <nfossokamga@>
                > > À : talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                > > Envoyé le : Mer 15 décembre 2010, 15h 06min 45s
                > > Objet : [talk-about-sy] comments
                > >
                > >
                > > Hi, my name is Fosso Kamga Noe.I have been a sahaja yogi since five years.I want
                > > here in this group, to talk about what I feel in sahaja yoga.I want to say what
                > > great bliss is the work doing by Shri mataji. and I hope, all of members of the
                > > group, will understand and share with me.
                > >
                >




              • Clive Bates
                Sahaja Yoga, with respect to your reply, is only two words, used in a bid to conceptualise a group of people as they try to organise themselves so that they,
                Message 7 of 29 , Feb 18, 2011
                • 0 Attachment
                  Sahaja Yoga, with respect to your reply, is only two words, used in a bid to conceptualise a group of people as they try to organise themselves so that they, and others, can better understand what they are doing as seekers...

                  There have always been realised souls...and they get it in a Sahaj manner, either by birth in the right conditions, and always maintain it with introspection. Albeit many are or become self-realised and then fall either into ego or superego by going to extremes of action or emotion, in a bid to either 'wake people up' or to get people to understand them.

                  What Shri Mataji has done is give us the words and concepts by which one can attain, and  remain 'realised' (being beyond superficiality).

                  It's the mind that's limited, and thus problems only arise when people, be they 'co'ordinators / leaders' or otherwise don't really know their SELF.



                  From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                  To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 21:54:17
                  Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                   

                  In other words, Sahaja Yoga has NOTHING to do with beingness and existance..it is for some, a way to get to  THEIR OWN awareness but it is not awareness itself nor beingness itself.  It is still a lable and an illusion, and so the same would be any Guru...a finger pointing at the moon is not the moon.  All ends up in "I AM"  God is also "I AM" and so is each of us..meaning all is the same, us, incarnations,all the same! " I AM" is the basis and that can happen to anyone at any point in time when one is ready by any means, not just Sahaja Yoga.  I have met very mature saintly people who havent even heard of Sahaja Yoga. 

                  --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...> wrote:

                  From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                  Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                  To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                  Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 9:46 PM

                   

                  Yes...but are all BEINGS IN Sahaja yoga?  does beingness require that one should be a Sahaja Yogi?  Is existance without meaning without Sahaja Yoga? Sahaja Yoga is a teaching or the return to our selves, but we should graduate at some point, just like you do from school.  Become truly your own master and rely on your inner self.
                  --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                  From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                  Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                  To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                  Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 8:48 PM

                   
                  Sahaja Yoga is a state of being, Shri Mataji has always taught from that perspective...hence the essence of absloute truth being in all things. It's only the mind that interprets things wrongly.



                  From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                  To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 19:19:59
                  Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                   
                   The main thing I have learned is that one is ONE within spirit and and even kundalini is part of creation.  Vibrations I have found are not that much above thinking..that if you keep relying on such, you will be stuck in a web of negative and positive which is duality...it doesn not make you go that much higher than that.  Only connecting to the spirit totally without any distractions of the outside will one find the most powerful energy which is spirit and that is who we are.  It is unfair to claim that ex-members are not true seekers. All are spirit and all will get there! There are no chose ones.  All are chosen and all will arrive sooner or later because God is everyone of us non excluded!!!
                   I felt stuck after a while of not seeing any improvements on me or my sahaj siblings...all were so distracted trying to organize the group.  I no longer felt I was "evolving" at that slow pace.  Eventually we have to unplug from all group systems and unite as one...spirit doesnt know any name such as sahaja yoga..it is still creation...while spirit observes many things are created.  It is really true that when in a group one goes with the 'flock" and does not really take responsability to get rid of fears etc.   I found that I was afraid to leave sahaja yoga scared that I would no longer feel vibrations...well guess what....I feel an amazing energy which is my spirit and incredible intuition much more powerful than I ever did before.   ALl is a part of evolution and so was SY for me..but that is not the ultimate.  There are no rights and wrongs and no mistakes in life...nothing I regret....but I am not staying in the fears of group conditionings.  I wish all would see how many conditionings you have aquired in SY too...and how much you fear to even hug your parents who are not in sahaja yoga because they have negativity?  isnt this fear?  how can your heart be open with that kind of fear?  if we separate we are not being in spirit...anything that separates is ego!  non-sahaja yogies vs sahaja yogies IS separation...and that fear will limit you.  It is your choice.  I love the entire world and feel all in me and me in all. 

                  --- On Fri, 1/28/11, talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                  From: talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com>
                  Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                  To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                  Received: Friday, January 28, 2011, 7:00 AM

                   

                  Hey
                  still alive and kicking...
                  check out www.shri-mataji.org and www.sahajayogafacs.info

                  cheers
                  s.

                  --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, "victorysnear" <victorysnear@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I know it's been a very hard job for all those wonderful ex sahaja yogis to keep this place working. You've given so much to others here! I'll never thank you enough.
                  > Even though, I think time has come to change this place. Make a Blog out of it. Keep the memory of your past for other victims of this dreadful cult and don't let this place fall into the hands of sy cult. I know each of you has your own busy life, you're so clever and bright, interested in your families, in culture and in fun too. You have moved on, I know. You deserve it. But the work you've done must be kept for others until sy disapears, it won't be a long time, victory's near...
                  > My regards to TASY group
                  > Vic
                  >
                  > --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, isaac iba <iba22000@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > hi noé, i'm too here in this group to talk about my deeply experiences with
                  > > sahaja yoga ,i think we are so lucky to be a sahaja yogi ,but a good because
                  > > many persons whose was abuse with a false or bad sahaja yogi have now a bad
                  > > experience about sahaja yoga and some of them who wasn't a true seekers feel
                  > > deception but i want to encourage you to be sincere with the relationship
                  > > between you and the mother kundalini whose have been awakened by the power of
                  > > shri mataji...
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ________________________________
                  > > De : Noe Fosso Kamga <nfossokamga@>
                  > > À : talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Envoyé le : Mer 15 décembre 2010, 15h 06min 45s
                  > > Objet : [talk-about-sy] comments
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Hi, my name is Fosso Kamga Noe.I have been a sahaja yogi since five years.I want
                  > > here in this group, to talk about what I feel in sahaja yoga.I want to say what
                  > > great bliss is the work doing by Shri mataji. and I hope, all of members of the
                  > > group, will understand and share with me.
                  > >
                  >




                • Clive Bates
                  Someone is only in Sahaja Yoga if they are aware of themselves and remain in that awareness. Sahaja Yoga is a state of BEING, that s why ot is called pure
                  Message 8 of 29 , Feb 18, 2011
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Someone is only 'in Sahaja Yoga' if they are aware of themselves and remain in that awareness.

                    Sahaja Yoga is a state of BEING, that's why ot is called pure religion...Religion itself is an process of introspection, something that is undertaken...again people use concepts to suti their awareness of the world and their place in it.

                    Attempts at organising religion, the aspiration, is also being religious, until that is the spontanaity is lost amidst dogmatism born of people who do not know their SELF and so do not know true freedom.



                    From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                    To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 21:54:17
                    Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                     

                    In other words, Sahaja Yoga has NOTHING to do with beingness and existance..it is for some, a way to get to  THEIR OWN awareness but it is not awareness itself nor beingness itself.  It is still a lable and an illusion, and so the same would be any Guru...a finger pointing at the moon is not the moon.  All ends up in "I AM"  God is also "I AM" and so is each of us..meaning all is the same, us, incarnations,all the same! " I AM" is the basis and that can happen to anyone at any point in time when one is ready by any means, not just Sahaja Yoga.  I have met very mature saintly people who havent even heard of Sahaja Yoga. 

                    --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...> wrote:

                    From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                    Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                    To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                    Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 9:46 PM

                     

                    Yes...but are all BEINGS IN Sahaja yoga?  does beingness require that one should be a Sahaja Yogi?  Is existance without meaning without Sahaja Yoga? Sahaja Yoga is a teaching or the return to our selves, but we should graduate at some point, just like you do from school.  Become truly your own master and rely on your inner self.
                    --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                    From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                    Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                    To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                    Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 8:48 PM

                     
                    Sahaja Yoga is a state of being, Shri Mataji has always taught from that perspective...hence the essence of absloute truth being in all things. It's only the mind that interprets things wrongly.



                    From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                    To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 19:19:59
                    Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                     
                     The main thing I have learned is that one is ONE within spirit and and even kundalini is part of creation.  Vibrations I have found are not that much above thinking..that if you keep relying on such, you will be stuck in a web of negative and positive which is duality...it doesn not make you go that much higher than that.  Only connecting to the spirit totally without any distractions of the outside will one find the most powerful energy which is spirit and that is who we are.  It is unfair to claim that ex-members are not true seekers. All are spirit and all will get there! There are no chose ones.  All are chosen and all will arrive sooner or later because God is everyone of us non excluded!!!
                     I felt stuck after a while of not seeing any improvements on me or my sahaj siblings...all were so distracted trying to organize the group.  I no longer felt I was "evolving" at that slow pace.  Eventually we have to unplug from all group systems and unite as one...spirit doesnt know any name such as sahaja yoga..it is still creation...while spirit observes many things are created.  It is really true that when in a group one goes with the 'flock" and does not really take responsability to get rid of fears etc.   I found that I was afraid to leave sahaja yoga scared that I would no longer feel vibrations...well guess what....I feel an amazing energy which is my spirit and incredible intuition much more powerful than I ever did before.   ALl is a part of evolution and so was SY for me..but that is not the ultimate.  There are no rights and wrongs and no mistakes in life...nothing I regret....but I am not staying in the fears of group conditionings.  I wish all would see how many conditionings you have aquired in SY too...and how much you fear to even hug your parents who are not in sahaja yoga because they have negativity?  isnt this fear?  how can your heart be open with that kind of fear?  if we separate we are not being in spirit...anything that separates is ego!  non-sahaja yogies vs sahaja yogies IS separation...and that fear will limit you.  It is your choice.  I love the entire world and feel all in me and me in all. 

                    --- On Fri, 1/28/11, talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                    From: talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com>
                    Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                    To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                    Received: Friday, January 28, 2011, 7:00 AM

                     

                    Hey
                    still alive and kicking...
                    check out www.shri-mataji.org and www.sahajayogafacs.info

                    cheers
                    s.

                    --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, "victorysnear" <victorysnear@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I know it's been a very hard job for all those wonderful ex sahaja yogis to keep this place working. You've given so much to others here! I'll never thank you enough.
                    > Even though, I think time has come to change this place. Make a Blog out of it. Keep the memory of your past for other victims of this dreadful cult and don't let this place fall into the hands of sy cult. I know each of you has your own busy life, you're so clever and bright, interested in your families, in culture and in fun too. You have moved on, I know. You deserve it. But the work you've done must be kept for others until sy disapears, it won't be a long time, victory's near...
                    > My regards to TASY group
                    > Vic
                    >
                    > --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, isaac iba <iba22000@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > hi noé, i'm too here in this group to talk about my deeply experiences with
                    > > sahaja yoga ,i think we are so lucky to be a sahaja yogi ,but a good because
                    > > many persons whose was abuse with a false or bad sahaja yogi have now a bad
                    > > experience about sahaja yoga and some of them who wasn't a true seekers feel
                    > > deception but i want to encourage you to be sincere with the relationship
                    > > between you and the mother kundalini whose have been awakened by the power of
                    > > shri mataji...
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ________________________________
                    > > De : Noe Fosso Kamga <nfossokamga@>
                    > > À : talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Envoyé le : Mer 15 décembre 2010, 15h 06min 45s
                    > > Objet : [talk-about-sy] comments
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Hi, my name is Fosso Kamga Noe.I have been a sahaja yogi since five years.I want
                    > > here in this group, to talk about what I feel in sahaja yoga.I want to say what
                    > > great bliss is the work doing by Shri mataji. and I hope, all of members of the
                    > > group, will understand and share with me.
                    > >
                    >




                  • Clive Bates
                    ...in that respect, anyone who is self-realised is a Sahaja Yogi; someone in the sate of Yoga, which is something that happens spontaneously through the
                    Message 9 of 29 , Feb 18, 2011
                    • 0 Attachment
                      ...in that respect, anyone who is self-realised is a Sahaja Yogi; someone in the sate of Yoga, which is something that happens spontaneously through the opening of the Sahasrara.






                      From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                      To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 22:15:37
                      Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                       

                      Someone is only 'in Sahaja Yoga' if they are aware of themselves and remain in that awareness.

                      Sahaja Yoga is a state of BEING, that's why ot is called pure religion...Religion itself is an process of introspection, something that is undertaken...again people use concepts to suti their awareness of the world and their place in it.

                      Attempts at organising religion, the aspiration, is also being religious, until that is the spontanaity is lost amidst dogmatism born of people who do not know their SELF and so do not know true freedom.



                      From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                      To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 21:54:17
                      Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                       

                      In other words, Sahaja Yoga has NOTHING to do with beingness and existance..it is for some, a way to get to  THEIR OWN awareness but it is not awareness itself nor beingness itself.  It is still a lable and an illusion, and so the same would be any Guru...a finger pointing at the moon is not the moon.  All ends up in "I AM"  God is also "I AM" and so is each of us..meaning all is the same, us, incarnations,all the same! " I AM" is the basis and that can happen to anyone at any point in time when one is ready by any means, not just Sahaja Yoga.  I have met very mature saintly people who havent even heard of Sahaja Yoga. 

                      --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...> wrote:

                      From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                      Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                      To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                      Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 9:46 PM

                       

                      Yes...but are all BEINGS IN Sahaja yoga?  does beingness require that one should be a Sahaja Yogi?  Is existance without meaning without Sahaja Yoga? Sahaja Yoga is a teaching or the return to our selves, but we should graduate at some point, just like you do from school.  Become truly your own master and rely on your inner self.
                      --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                      From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                      Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                      To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                      Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 8:48 PM

                       
                      Sahaja Yoga is a state of being, Shri Mataji has always taught from that perspective...hence the essence of absloute truth being in all things. It's only the mind that interprets things wrongly.



                      From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                      To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 19:19:59
                      Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                       
                       The main thing I have learned is that one is ONE within spirit and and even kundalini is part of creation.  Vibrations I have found are not that much above thinking..that if you keep relying on such, you will be stuck in a web of negative and positive which is duality...it doesn not make you go that much higher than that.  Only connecting to the spirit totally without any distractions of the outside will one find the most powerful energy which is spirit and that is who we are.  It is unfair to claim that ex-members are not true seekers. All are spirit and all will get there! There are no chose ones.  All are chosen and all will arrive sooner or later because God is everyone of us non excluded!!!
                       I felt stuck after a while of not seeing any improvements on me or my sahaj siblings...all were so distracted trying to organize the group.  I no longer felt I was "evolving" at that slow pace.  Eventually we have to unplug from all group systems and unite as one...spirit doesnt know any name such as sahaja yoga..it is still creation...while spirit observes many things are created.  It is really true that when in a group one goes with the 'flock" and does not really take responsability to get rid of fears etc.   I found that I was afraid to leave sahaja yoga scared that I would no longer feel vibrations...well guess what....I feel an amazing energy which is my spirit and incredible intuition much more powerful than I ever did before.   ALl is a part of evolution and so was SY for me..but that is not the ultimate.  There are no rights and wrongs and no mistakes in life...nothing I regret....but I am not staying in the fears of group conditionings.  I wish all would see how many conditionings you have aquired in SY too...and how much you fear to even hug your parents who are not in sahaja yoga because they have negativity?  isnt this fear?  how can your heart be open with that kind of fear?  if we separate we are not being in spirit...anything that separates is ego!  non-sahaja yogies vs sahaja yogies IS separation...and that fear will limit you.  It is your choice.  I love the entire world and feel all in me and me in all. 

                      --- On Fri, 1/28/11, talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                      From: talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com>
                      Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                      To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                      Received: Friday, January 28, 2011, 7:00 AM

                       

                      Hey
                      still alive and kicking...
                      check out www.shri-mataji.org and www.sahajayogafacs.info

                      cheers
                      s.

                      --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, "victorysnear" <victorysnear@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I know it's been a very hard job for all those wonderful ex sahaja yogis to keep this place working. You've given so much to others here! I'll never thank you enough.
                      > Even though, I think time has come to change this place. Make a Blog out of it. Keep the memory of your past for other victims of this dreadful cult and don't let this place fall into the hands of sy cult. I know each of you has your own busy life, you're so clever and bright, interested in your families, in culture and in fun too. You have moved on, I know. You deserve it. But the work you've done must be kept for others until sy disapears, it won't be a long time, victory's near...
                      > My regards to TASY group
                      > Vic
                      >
                      > --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, isaac iba <iba22000@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > hi noé, i'm too here in this group to talk about my deeply experiences with
                      > > sahaja yoga ,i think we are so lucky to be a sahaja yogi ,but a good because
                      > > many persons whose was abuse with a false or bad sahaja yogi have now a bad
                      > > experience about sahaja yoga and some of them who wasn't a true seekers feel
                      > > deception but i want to encourage you to be sincere with the relationship
                      > > between you and the mother kundalini whose have been awakened by the power of
                      > > shri mataji...
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > ________________________________
                      > > De : Noe Fosso Kamga <nfossokamga@>
                      > > À : talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Envoyé le : Mer 15 décembre 2010, 15h 06min 45s
                      > > Objet : [talk-about-sy] comments
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Hi, my name is Fosso Kamga Noe.I have been a sahaja yogi since five years.I want
                      > > here in this group, to talk about what I feel in sahaja yoga.I want to say what
                      > > great bliss is the work doing by Shri mataji. and I hope, all of members of the
                      > > group, will understand and share with me.
                      > >
                      >




                    • Clive Bates
                      Sahaj Stithi , the state of being in yoga...it s been known since wayabck whenever by many, as part of the tradition of Yoga in the east, and no doubt
                      Message 10 of 29 , Feb 18, 2011
                      • 0 Attachment
                        'Sahaj Stithi', the state of being in yoga...it's been known since wayabck whenever by many, as part of the tradition of Yoga in the east, and no doubt understood using different concepts in other cultures and places over time, throughout human evolution.



                        From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                        To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Saturday, 19 February, 2011 0:02:04
                        Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                         

                        ...in that respect, anyone who is self-realised is a Sahaja Yogi; someone in the sate of Yoga, which is something that happens spontaneously through the opening of the Sahasrara.






                        From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                        To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 22:15:37
                        Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                         

                        Someone is only 'in Sahaja Yoga' if they are aware of themselves and remain in that awareness.

                        Sahaja Yoga is a state of BEING, that's why ot is called pure religion...Religion itself is an process of introspection, something that is undertaken...again people use concepts to suti their awareness of the world and their place in it.

                        Attempts at organising religion, the aspiration, is also being religious, until that is the spontanaity is lost amidst dogmatism born of people who do not know their SELF and so do not know true freedom.



                        From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                        To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 21:54:17
                        Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                         

                        In other words, Sahaja Yoga has NOTHING to do with beingness and existance..it is for some, a way to get to  THEIR OWN awareness but it is not awareness itself nor beingness itself.  It is still a lable and an illusion, and so the same would be any Guru...a finger pointing at the moon is not the moon.  All ends up in "I AM"  God is also "I AM" and so is each of us..meaning all is the same, us, incarnations,all the same! " I AM" is the basis and that can happen to anyone at any point in time when one is ready by any means, not just Sahaja Yoga.  I have met very mature saintly people who havent even heard of Sahaja Yoga. 

                        --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...> wrote:

                        From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                        Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                        To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                        Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 9:46 PM

                         

                        Yes...but are all BEINGS IN Sahaja yoga?  does beingness require that one should be a Sahaja Yogi?  Is existance without meaning without Sahaja Yoga? Sahaja Yoga is a teaching or the return to our selves, but we should graduate at some point, just like you do from school.  Become truly your own master and rely on your inner self.
                        --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                        From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                        Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                        To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                        Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 8:48 PM

                         
                        Sahaja Yoga is a state of being, Shri Mataji has always taught from that perspective...hence the essence of absloute truth being in all things. It's only the mind that interprets things wrongly.



                        From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                        To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 19:19:59
                        Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                         
                         The main thing I have learned is that one is ONE within spirit and and even kundalini is part of creation.  Vibrations I have found are not that much above thinking..that if you keep relying on such, you will be stuck in a web of negative and positive which is duality...it doesn not make you go that much higher than that.  Only connecting to the spirit totally without any distractions of the outside will one find the most powerful energy which is spirit and that is who we are.  It is unfair to claim that ex-members are not true seekers. All are spirit and all will get there! There are no chose ones.  All are chosen and all will arrive sooner or later because God is everyone of us non excluded!!!
                         I felt stuck after a while of not seeing any improvements on me or my sahaj siblings...all were so distracted trying to organize the group.  I no longer felt I was "evolving" at that slow pace.  Eventually we have to unplug from all group systems and unite as one...spirit doesnt know any name such as sahaja yoga..it is still creation...while spirit observes many things are created.  It is really true that when in a group one goes with the 'flock" and does not really take responsability to get rid of fears etc.   I found that I was afraid to leave sahaja yoga scared that I would no longer feel vibrations...well guess what....I feel an amazing energy which is my spirit and incredible intuition much more powerful than I ever did before.   ALl is a part of evolution and so was SY for me..but that is not the ultimate.  There are no rights and wrongs and no mistakes in life...nothing I regret....but I am not staying in the fears of group conditionings.  I wish all would see how many conditionings you have aquired in SY too...and how much you fear to even hug your parents who are not in sahaja yoga because they have negativity?  isnt this fear?  how can your heart be open with that kind of fear?  if we separate we are not being in spirit...anything that separates is ego!  non-sahaja yogies vs sahaja yogies IS separation...and that fear will limit you.  It is your choice.  I love the entire world and feel all in me and me in all. 

                        --- On Fri, 1/28/11, talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                        From: talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com>
                        Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                        To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                        Received: Friday, January 28, 2011, 7:00 AM

                         

                        Hey
                        still alive and kicking...
                        check out www.shri-mataji.org and www.sahajayogafacs.info

                        cheers
                        s.

                        --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, "victorysnear" <victorysnear@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I know it's been a very hard job for all those wonderful ex sahaja yogis to keep this place working. You've given so much to others here! I'll never thank you enough.
                        > Even though, I think time has come to change this place. Make a Blog out of it. Keep the memory of your past for other victims of this dreadful cult and don't let this place fall into the hands of sy cult. I know each of you has your own busy life, you're so clever and bright, interested in your families, in culture and in fun too. You have moved on, I know. You deserve it. But the work you've done must be kept for others until sy disapears, it won't be a long time, victory's near...
                        > My regards to TASY group
                        > Vic
                        >
                        > --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, isaac iba <iba22000@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > hi noé, i'm too here in this group to talk about my deeply experiences with
                        > > sahaja yoga ,i think we are so lucky to be a sahaja yogi ,but a good because
                        > > many persons whose was abuse with a false or bad sahaja yogi have now a bad
                        > > experience about sahaja yoga and some of them who wasn't a true seekers feel
                        > > deception but i want to encourage you to be sincere with the relationship
                        > > between you and the mother kundalini whose have been awakened by the power of
                        > > shri mataji...
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ________________________________
                        > > De : Noe Fosso Kamga <nfossokamga@>
                        > > À : talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Envoyé le : Mer 15 décembre 2010, 15h 06min 45s
                        > > Objet : [talk-about-sy] comments
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Hi, my name is Fosso Kamga Noe.I have been a sahaja yogi since five years.I want
                        > > here in this group, to talk about what I feel in sahaja yoga.I want to say what
                        > > great bliss is the work doing by Shri mataji. and I hope, all of members of the
                        > > group, will understand and share with me.
                        > >
                        >




                      • Yogini Kumar
                        Do you know what Muslims believe?  That all are born to Islam.  Meaning all are born in submission to God.  This is as true as your statement.  Does it
                        Message 11 of 29 , Feb 18, 2011
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Do you know what Muslims believe?  That all are born to Islam.  Meaning all are born in submission to God.  This is as true as your statement.  Does it mean we have to separate each other and fear each other for not being in THAT?  Just so you know---  I was as deep as anyone can get in Sahaja Yoga for many many years.  The reason I left is because of other's fear of my divorce--they were scared that SY would get a bad name---that is how fearful people are in there! and uncompassionate as a result.. but my years there I felt vibrations with ease, and I have been a very clear person--- people know me as a very pure soul.  I am not against SY.  I feel that people should evolve past feeling vibrations, past fears of others, past separation of groups and judgement of each other.  You dont see it, but you are conditioned into group belief aside from vibrations.  And vibrations change all the time.  You can feel one person now and tomorrow feel him or her again and it might change---it will change for sure all the time...but many judge them from that moment they check.  There is a lot of fears in the group.  It is important to note them down when you introspect and overcome them.  I am not here to condemn but to really open your eyes if possible.  I said it before---Mahamaya is maya, but your spirit will never delude you---NEVER.  All is God and your experience of reality and others completely reflects from you.  Without you, you wouldnt see others nor this world as you see them...without YOU you would not feel what you feel, nor realize what you realize.  No one can transform you but your self by your own desire and will and readiness (even Shri Mataji says this!).  And this will happen under any circumstances which has no name, or organization or religion or meditation group.  Spirit even has a name that we gave it, but it still IS whether we name it or not...so you can call people or self realization as Sahaja yoga or sahaja yogies or  what you like, it doesnt mean that is what they are, that is what you think they are by your belief--and beliefs are man made.  

                          --- On Sat, 2/19/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                          From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                          Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                          To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                          Received: Saturday, February 19, 2011, 12:02 AM

                           
                          ...in that respect, anyone who is self-realised is a Sahaja Yogi; someone in the sate of Yoga, which is something that happens spontaneously through the opening of the Sahasrara.






                          From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                          To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 22:15:37
                          Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                           
                          Someone is only 'in Sahaja Yoga' if they are aware of themselves and remain in that awareness.

                          Sahaja Yoga is a state of BEING, that's why ot is called pure religion...Religion itself is an process of introspection, something that is undertaken...again people use concepts to suti their awareness of the world and their place in it.

                          Attempts at organising religion, the aspiration, is also being religious, until that is the spontanaity is lost amidst dogmatism born of people who do not know their SELF and so do not know true freedom.



                          From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                          To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 21:54:17
                          Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                           
                          In other words, Sahaja Yoga has NOTHING to do with beingness and existance..it is for some, a way to get to  THEIR OWN awareness but it is not awareness itself nor beingness itself.  It is still a lable and an illusion, and so the same would be any Guru...a finger pointing at the moon is not the moon.  All ends up in "I AM"  God is also "I AM" and so is each of us..meaning all is the same, us, incarnations,all the same! " I AM" is the basis and that can happen to anyone at any point in time when one is ready by any means, not just Sahaja Yoga.  I have met very mature saintly people who havent even heard of Sahaja Yoga. 

                          --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...> wrote:

                          From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                          Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                          To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                          Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 9:46 PM

                           

                          Yes...but are all BEINGS IN Sahaja yoga?  does beingness require that one should be a Sahaja Yogi?  Is existance without meaning without Sahaja Yoga? Sahaja Yoga is a teaching or the return to our selves, but we should graduate at some point, just like you do from school.  Become truly your own master and rely on your inner self.
                          --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                          From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                          Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                          To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                          Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 8:48 PM

                           
                          Sahaja Yoga is a state of being, Shri Mataji has always taught from that perspective...hence the essence of absloute truth being in all things. It's only the mind that interprets things wrongly.



                          From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                          To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 19:19:59
                          Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                           
                           The main thing I have learned is that one is ONE within spirit and and even kundalini is part of creation.  Vibrations I have found are not that much above thinking..that if you keep relying on such, you will be stuck in a web of negative and positive which is duality...it doesn not make you go that much higher than that.  Only connecting to the spirit totally without any distractions of the outside will one find the most powerful energy which is spirit and that is who we are.  It is unfair to claim that ex-members are not true seekers. All are spirit and all will get there! There are no chose ones.  All are chosen and all will arrive sooner or later because God is everyone of us non excluded!!!
                           I felt stuck after a while of not seeing any improvements on me or my sahaj siblings...all were so distracted trying to organize the group.  I no longer felt I was "evolving" at that slow pace.  Eventually we have to unplug from all group systems and unite as one...spirit doesnt know any name such as sahaja yoga..it is still creation...while spirit observes many things are created.  It is really true that when in a group one goes with the 'flock" and does not really take responsability to get rid of fears etc.   I found that I was afraid to leave sahaja yoga scared that I would no longer feel vibrations...well guess what....I feel an amazing energy which is my spirit and incredible intuition much more powerful than I ever did before.   ALl is a part of evolution and so was SY for me..but that is not the ultimate.  There are no rights and wrongs and no mistakes in life...nothing I regret....but I am not staying in the fears of group conditionings.  I wish all would see how many conditionings you have aquired in SY too...and how much you fear to even hug your parents who are not in sahaja yoga because they have negativity?  isnt this fear?  how can your heart be open with that kind of fear?  if we separate we are not being in spirit...anything that separates is ego!  non-sahaja yogies vs sahaja yogies IS separation...and that fear will limit you.  It is your choice.  I love the entire world and feel all in me and me in all. 

                          --- On Fri, 1/28/11, talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                          From: talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com>
                          Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                          To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                          Received: Friday, January 28, 2011, 7:00 AM

                           

                          Hey
                          still alive and kicking...
                          check out www.shri-mataji.org and www.sahajayogafacs.info

                          cheers
                          s.

                          --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, "victorysnear" <victorysnear@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I know it's been a very hard job for all those wonderful ex sahaja yogis to keep this place working. You've given so much to others here! I'll never thank you enough.
                          > Even though, I think time has come to change this place. Make a Blog out of it. Keep the memory of your past for other victims of this dreadful cult and don't let this place fall into the hands of sy cult. I know each of you has your own busy life, you're so clever and bright, interested in your families, in culture and in fun too. You have moved on, I know. You deserve it. But the work you've done must be kept for others until sy disapears, it won't be a long time, victory's near...
                          > My regards to TASY group
                          > Vic
                          >
                          > --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, isaac iba <iba22000@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > hi noé, i'm too here in this group to talk about my deeply experiences with
                          > > sahaja yoga ,i think we are so lucky to be a sahaja yogi ,but a good because
                          > > many persons whose was abuse with a false or bad sahaja yogi have now a bad
                          > > experience about sahaja yoga and some of them who wasn't a true seekers feel
                          > > deception but i want to encourage you to be sincere with the relationship
                          > > between you and the mother kundalini whose have been awakened by the power of
                          > > shri mataji...
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ________________________________
                          > > De : Noe Fosso Kamga <nfossokamga@>
                          > > À : talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                          > > Envoyé le : Mer 15 décembre 2010, 15h 06min 45s
                          > > Objet : [talk-about-sy] comments
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Hi, my name is Fosso Kamga Noe.I have been a sahaja yogi since five years.I want
                          > > here in this group, to talk about what I feel in sahaja yoga.I want to say what
                          > > great bliss is the work doing by Shri mataji. and I hope, all of members of the
                          > > group, will understand and share with me.
                          > >
                          >





                        • Theresa Healy
                          I m on the same wave length as you yogini, and love how you express yourself and use of words. However, your wasting your time, he s brainwashed. He has
                          Message 12 of 29 , Feb 19, 2011
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I'm on the same wave length as you yogini, and love how you express yourself and use of words. However, your wasting your time, he's brainwashed. He has experienced something, and formed a life, to rip that from him now will only create a hole he may not be able to fill. Trust me, I've wanted to say all this to my sister who is still in SY. In the end it must be their own choice, experience and path that brings them back to reality, no matter what words we use, only a truley significant experience that can not be explained by SM's imaginary doing will bring them out... in other words, a miracle by something or someone real, good luck finding that (and even then they will probably create some kind of excuse in their heads like SM created that person therefore.....)

                            Perhaps its only the inner spirit that will chose whether a person leaves a cult, or has it ever occurred to you perhaps its their inner spirit that keeps them in a cult. How much do we really know whats going on in this world? Why did he end up in SY in the first place. In many cases drug addicts end up in it, and to leave would only return them to their former lives. To leave was right for you and me, and I want the truth out too... but coming out can be worse then staying in if the support networks are not there. I was lucky i had support, you were lucky? you had support? but you leave a lot of friends and loved ones behind by leaving a cult, sometimes its better remaining brainwashed, living in the illusion, if the alternative means..... well.... a possible hell on earth.

                            Then again if you can leave, you become a stronger soul because of it... but is that what everythings about evolving? becoming stronger willed? becoming ones own master? hmmm i guess...... Its all a mystery....... some food for thought :)

                            --- On Sat, 19/2/11, Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...> wrote:

                            From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                            Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                            To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                            Received: Saturday, 19 February, 2011, 7:42 AM

                             

                            Do you know what Muslims believe?  That all are born to Islam.  Meaning all are born in submission to God.  This is as true as your statement.  Does it mean we have to separate each other and fear each other for not being in THAT?  Just so you know---  I was as deep as anyone can get in Sahaja Yoga for many many years.  The reason I left is because of other's fear of my divorce--they were scared that SY would get a bad name---that is how fearful people are in there! and uncompassionate as a result.. but my years there I felt vibrations with ease, and I have been a very clear person--- people know me as a very pure soul.  I am not against SY.  I feel that people should evolve past feeling vibrations, past fears of others, past separation of groups and judgement of each other.  You dont see it, but you are conditioned into group belief aside from vibrations.  And vibrations change all the time.  You can feel one person now and tomorrow feel him or her again and it might change---it will change for sure all the time...but many judge them from that moment they check.  There is a lot of fears in the group.  It is important to note them down when you introspect and overcome them.  I am not here to condemn but to really open your eyes if possible.  I said it before---Mahamaya is maya, but your spirit will never delude you---NEVER.  All is God and your experience of reality and others completely reflects from you.  Without you, you wouldnt see others nor this world as you see them...without YOU you would not feel what you feel, nor realize what you realize.  No one can transform you but your self by your own desire and will and readiness (even Shri Mataji says this!).  And this will happen under any circumstances which has no name, or organization or religion or meditation group.  Spirit even has a name that we gave it, but it still IS whether we name it or not...so you can call people or self realization as Sahaja yoga or sahaja yogies or  what you like, it doesnt mean that is what they are, that is what you think they are by your belief--and beliefs are man made.  

                            --- On Sat, 2/19/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                            From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                            Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                            To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                            Received: Saturday, February 19, 2011, 12:02 AM

                             
                            ...in that respect, anyone who is self-realised is a Sahaja Yogi; someone in the sate of Yoga, which is something that happens spontaneously through the opening of the Sahasrara.






                            From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                            To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 22:15:37
                            Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                             
                            Someone is only 'in Sahaja Yoga' if they are aware of themselves and remain in that awareness.

                            Sahaja Yoga is a state of BEING, that's why ot is called pure religion...Religion itself is an process of introspection, something that is undertaken...again people use concepts to suti their awareness of the world and their place in it.

                            Attempts at organising religion, the aspiration, is also being religious, until that is the spontanaity is lost amidst dogmatism born of people who do not know their SELF and so do not know true freedom.



                            From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                            To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 21:54:17
                            Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                             
                            In other words, Sahaja Yoga has NOTHING to do with beingness and existance..it is for some, a way to get to  THEIR OWN awareness but it is not awareness itself nor beingness itself.  It is still a lable and an illusion, and so the same would be any Guru...a finger pointing at the moon is not the moon.  All ends up in "I AM"  God is also "I AM" and so is each of us..meaning all is the same, us, incarnations,all the same! " I AM" is the basis and that can happen to anyone at any point in time when one is ready by any means, not just Sahaja Yoga.  I have met very mature saintly people who havent even heard of Sahaja Yoga. 

                            --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...> wrote:

                            From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                            Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                            To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                            Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 9:46 PM

                             

                            Yes...but are all BEINGS IN Sahaja yoga?  does beingness require that one should be a Sahaja Yogi?  Is existance without meaning without Sahaja Yoga? Sahaja Yoga is a teaching or the return to our selves, but we should graduate at some point, just like you do from school.  Become truly your own master and rely on your inner self.
                            --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                            From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                            Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                            To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                            Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 8:48 PM

                             
                            Sahaja Yoga is a state of being, Shri Mataji has always taught from that perspective...hence the essence of absloute truth being in all things. It's only the mind that interprets things wrongly.



                            From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                            To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 19:19:59
                            Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                             
                             The main thing I have learned is that one is ONE within spirit and and even kundalini is part of creation.  Vibrations I have found are not that much above thinking..that if you keep relying on such, you will be stuck in a web of negative and positive which is duality...it doesn not make you go that much higher than that.  Only connecting to the spirit totally without any distractions of the outside will one find the most powerful energy which is spirit and that is who we are.  It is unfair to claim that ex-members are not true seekers. All are spirit and all will get there! There are no chose ones.  All are chosen and all will arrive sooner or later because God is everyone of us non excluded!!!
                             I felt stuck after a while of not seeing any improvements on me or my sahaj siblings...all were so distracted trying to organize the group.  I no longer felt I was "evolving" at that slow pace.  Eventually we have to unplug from all group systems and unite as one...spirit doesnt know any name such as sahaja yoga..it is still creation...while spirit observes many things are created.  It is really true that when in a group one goes with the 'flock" and does not really take responsability to get rid of fears etc.   I found that I was afraid to leave sahaja yoga scared that I would no longer feel vibrations...well guess what....I feel an amazing energy which is my spirit and incredible intuition much more powerful than I ever did before.   ALl is a part of evolution and so was SY for me..but that is not the ultimate.  There are no rights and wrongs and no mistakes in life...nothing I regret....but I am not staying in the fears of group conditionings.  I wish all would see how many conditionings you have aquired in SY too...and how much you fear to even hug your parents who are not in sahaja yoga because they have negativity?  isnt this fear?  how can your heart be open with that kind of fear?  if we separate we are not being in spirit...anything that separates is ego!  non-sahaja yogies vs sahaja yogies IS separation...and that fear will limit you.  It is your choice.  I love the entire world and feel all in me and me in all. 

                            --- On Fri, 1/28/11, talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                            From: talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com>
                            Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                            To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                            Received: Friday, January 28, 2011, 7:00 AM

                             

                            Hey
                            still alive and kicking...
                            check out www.shri-mataji.org and www.sahajayogafacs.info

                            cheers
                            s.

                            --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, "victorysnear" <victorysnear@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I know it's been a very hard job for all those wonderful ex sahaja yogis to keep this place working. You've given so much to others here! I'll never thank you enough.
                            > Even though, I think time has come to change this place. Make a Blog out of it. Keep the memory of your past for other victims of this dreadful cult and don't let this place fall into the hands of sy cult. I know each of you has your own busy life, you're so clever and bright, interested in your families, in culture and in fun too. You have moved on, I know. You deserve it. But the work you've done must be kept for others until sy disapears, it won't be a long time, victory's near...
                            > My regards to TASY group
                            > Vic
                            >
                            > --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, isaac iba <iba22000@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > hi noé, i'm too here in this group to talk about my deeply experiences with
                            > > sahaja yoga ,i think we are so lucky to be a sahaja yogi ,but a good because
                            > > many persons whose was abuse with a false or bad sahaja yogi have now a bad
                            > > experience about sahaja yoga and some of them who wasn't a true seekers feel
                            > > deception but i want to encourage you to be sincere with the relationship
                            > > between you and the mother kundalini whose have been awakened by the power of
                            > > shri mataji...
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > ________________________________
                            > > De : Noe Fosso Kamga <nfossokamga@>
                            > > À : talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                            > > Envoyé le : Mer 15 décembre 2010, 15h 06min 45s
                            > > Objet : [talk-about-sy] comments
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Hi, my name is Fosso Kamga Noe.I have been a sahaja yogi since five years.I want
                            > > here in this group, to talk about what I feel in sahaja yoga.I want to say what
                            > > great bliss is the work doing by Shri mataji. and I hope, all of members of the
                            > > group, will understand and share with me.
                            > >
                            >






                             
                          • Yogini Kumar
                            Dear Theresa and Clive( and all who are reading this).   Thank you for your message.  It has been nearly two years since I left SY.  I was so heart broken
                            Message 13 of 29 , Feb 19, 2011
                            • 0 Attachment

                              Dear Theresa and Clive( and all who are reading this).
                               
                              Thank you for your message.  It has been nearly two years since I left SY.  I was so heart broken as I got along with everyone and never had conflicts.  I truly did feel stuck and I was genuinely in SY only to find my SELF and it helped me to get intune with awareness and energy.  Shri Mataji has been my guru and I will never deny that because I do believe that my inner self did select this path and it felt right for me and it was right for me. 
                               
                              When I left, SY had been my life for many years and it was literally more important than anything.  I had incredible experiences and felt vibrations without even having to check.  I felt cool breeze very strong, but guess what?  I still do! (because it IS--this energy is my own)  Leaving SY now I realize was the best thing for me because I could "unplug" from all the fears and conditionings and face it all.  My biggest fear was leaving SY and not believing in Shri Mataji.  I did unplug from all that, from the group, from SM too.  I no longer meditated infront of the picture or candle and I put my entire attention, mind and heart in being in spirit.  In other words, my awareness grew incredibly because I was no longer placing my attention outside of myself.  Vibrations became this incredible energy that penetrated and connected to everything and everyone, and then one sees that all the lables and fears are truly things that we give power to by believing in them.  There is incredible loving energy within and when you use this energy to feed fears, they become real to you, and so do many other things.  In SY many people are reactive to even their own vibrations.  They catch and what do they do?  they react, the moment one reacts one is giving reality to that catch, and trust me that that catch will return, because we have made it more alive by our belief in it. We hate negativity within us and so we hate negativity in others and we condemn others because we cannot accept ourselves from fear of negativity...but arent we giving more negativity because reaction is friction and creates more negativity?  Only loving presence can dissolve it all.  If I get negativity in my body, I will feel it fully with love and awareness and I will see if there is an emotion or thought attached to it that I need to resolve within myself...otherwise this keeps reocurring...and behaviour patterns keep repeating.  Clearing chakras over and over is not going to help if people cannot truly approach their self and others with love and understanding, with total awareness of feelings and thoughts and situations with full heart.  When we place our full attention within, our power becomes complete.  There is nothing deluding us anymore and trust me--one does go above vibratory state!  and you dont need to recognize anything but your spirit...remove all else!  names, stories, past, conditioned fears.  See?  you just need to say one "false" gurus name and the entire SY collective will cringe, but this reaction will only make them be caught up in that illusion.  It is all illusion and there is no reason to react.  There is no reason to condemn and hate.  Hating hate is just more hate--and it is no different than trying to take revenge--but who are we taking revenge from or hating?  just an idea, a belief because if we are LOVE we cannot see anything but LOVE.  Anyone who is ready to awake, will awake and it doesn't matter who is standing infront, because all in the background IS GOD.  So, just unplug from it all and face with love all your feelings and thoughts and when you accept your inner most feelings and thoughts, the ones that dont serve YOU will melt away.  Syogies keep reacting within and that will keep them in the web of vibrations...because negativity to them is BAD...they cannot see that it is a message telling them something...if they just listen---maybe it is telling them they are fearing something and to feel it fully so it melts away...but when people follow by beliefs rather than feelings, then these beliefs will block feelings and intuition and this is why I said "unplug from it all".  SYogies then go to treatments, but keep the fears...they even go to Vashi and get cleared, return home to the same catches because their reactions and fears and supressed feelings have not been resolved.
                                I did not want to bring this up, but I heard that Shri Mataji is under psychotic drugs and many yogies will say she is Mahamaya, etc.  They will fear or react...and non yogies will say "see, I told you so", but what I feel not to judge but allow it all to be as it is and there is no need to even get involved in the Maya--be your own master in your own spirit!--spirit is the chageless and there is no maya in it! (in fact Shri Mataji says to be your own master, your own guru!)  We are all connected by love and peace essence and we cannot change that...we can change and believe in whatever we want.  Everything that changes is illusive and that includes vibrations!  So to yogies and no yogies I would advise to unplug from it all and you will see how many fears you are giving power to an that in exchange are rulling you back...recognize the obstacles you have placed against your SELF/ LOVE.  If one is still seeing "others" as different from one self, then one is not self realized---Heaven is not a place--it is ONENESS and yet, this realization is indivdual and it is not a belief and it wont happen because you belong to a group.  Many Sahaja Yogies could not even feel vibrations--and that is the proof--that it is indeed individual and one has to really take full responsability with full awareness.  ALL IS GOD namless and unmanifest within as spirit, and we are all LOVE and must be LOVE to recognize it.
                              --- On Sat, 2/19/11, Theresa Healy <sailorterri39@...> wrote:

                              From: Theresa Healy <sailorterri39@...>
                              Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                              To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                              Received: Saturday, February 19, 2011, 3:25 PM

                               
                              I'm on the same wave length as you yogini, and love how you express yourself and use of words. However, your wasting your time, he's brainwashed. He has experienced something, and formed a life, to rip that from him now will only create a hole he may not be able to fill. Trust me, I've wanted to say all this to my sister who is still in SY. In the end it must be their own choice, experience and path that brings them back to reality, no matter what words we use, only a truley significant experience that can not be explained by SM's imaginary doing will bring them out... in other words, a miracle by something or someone real, good luck finding that (and even then they will probably create some kind of excuse in their heads like SM created that person therefore.....)

                              Perhaps its only the inner spirit that will chose whether a person leaves a cult, or has it ever occurred to you perhaps its their inner spirit that keeps them in a cult. How much do we really know whats going on in this world? Why did he end up in SY in the first place. In many cases drug addicts end up in it, and to leave would only return them to their former lives. To leave was right for you and me, and I want the truth out too... but coming out can be worse then staying in if the support networks are not there. I was lucky i had support, you were lucky? you had support? but you leave a lot of friends and loved ones behind by leaving a cult, sometimes its better remaining brainwashed, living in the illusion, if the alternative means..... well.... a possible hell on earth.

                              Then again if you can leave, you become a stronger soul because of it... but is that what everythings about evolving? becoming stronger willed? becoming ones own master? hmmm i guess...... Its all a mystery....... some food for thought :)

                              --- On Sat, 19/2/11, Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...> wrote:

                              From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                              Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                              To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                              Received: Saturday, 19 February, 2011, 7:42 AM

                               
                              Do you know what Muslims believe?  That all are born to Islam.  Meaning all are born in submission to God.  This is as true as your statement.  Does it mean we have to separate each other and fear each other for not being in THAT?  Just so you know---  I was as deep as anyone can get in Sahaja Yoga for many many years.  The reason I left is because of other's fear of my divorce--they were scared that SY would get a bad name---that is how fearful people are in there! and uncompassionate as a result.. but my years there I felt vibrations with ease, and I have been a very clear person--- people know me as a very pure soul.  I am not against SY.  I feel that people should evolve past feeling vibrations, past fears of others, past separation of groups and judgement of each other.  You dont see it, but you are conditioned into group belief aside from vibrations.  And vibrations change all the time.  You can feel one person now and tomorrow feel him or her again and it might change---it will change for sure all the time...but many judge them from that moment they check.  There is a lot of fears in the group.  It is important to note them down when you introspect and overcome them.  I am not here to condemn but to really open your eyes if possible.  I said it before---Mahamaya is maya, but your spirit will never delude you---NEVER.  All is God and your experience of reality and others completely reflects from you.  Without you, you wouldnt see others nor this world as you see them...without YOU you would not feel what you feel, nor realize what you realize.  No one can transform you but your self by your own desire and will and readiness (even Shri Mataji says this!).  And this will happen under any circumstances which has no name, or organization or religion or meditation group.  Spirit even has a name that we gave it, but it still IS whether we name it or not...so you can call people or self realization as Sahaja yoga or sahaja yogies or  what you like, it doesnt mean that is what they are, that is what you think they are by your belief--and beliefs are man made.  

                              --- On Sat, 2/19/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                              From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                              Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                              To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                              Received: Saturday, February 19, 2011, 12:02 AM

                               
                              ...in that respect, anyone who is self-realised is a Sahaja Yogi; someone in the sate of Yoga, which is something that happens spontaneously through the opening of the Sahasrara.






                              From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                              To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 22:15:37
                              Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                               
                              Someone is only 'in Sahaja Yoga' if they are aware of themselves and remain in that awareness.

                              Sahaja Yoga is a state of BEING, that's why ot is called pure religion...Religion itself is an process of introspection, something that is undertaken...again people use concepts to suti their awareness of the world and their place in it.

                              Attempts at organising religion, the aspiration, is also being religious, until that is the spontanaity is lost amidst dogmatism born of people who do not know their SELF and so do not know true freedom.



                              From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                              To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 21:54:17
                              Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                               
                              In other words, Sahaja Yoga has NOTHING to do with beingness and existance..it is for some, a way to get to  THEIR OWN awareness but it is not awareness itself nor beingness itself.  It is still a lable and an illusion, and so the same would be any Guru...a finger pointing at the moon is not the moon.  All ends up in "I AM"  God is also "I AM" and so is each of us..meaning all is the same, us, incarnations,all the same! " I AM" is the basis and that can happen to anyone at any point in time when one is ready by any means, not just Sahaja Yoga.  I have met very mature saintly people who havent even heard of Sahaja Yoga. 

                              --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...> wrote:

                              From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                              Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                              To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                              Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 9:46 PM

                               

                              Yes...but are all BEINGS IN Sahaja yoga?  does beingness require that one should be a Sahaja Yogi?  Is existance without meaning without Sahaja Yoga? Sahaja Yoga is a teaching or the return to our selves, but we should graduate at some point, just like you do from school.  Become truly your own master and rely on your inner self.
                              --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                              From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                              Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                              To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                              Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 8:48 PM

                               
                              Sahaja Yoga is a state of being, Shri Mataji has always taught from that perspective...hence the essence of absloute truth being in all things. It's only the mind that interprets things wrongly.



                              From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                              To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 19:19:59
                              Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                               
                               The main thing I have learned is that one is ONE within spirit and and even kundalini is part of creation.  Vibrations I have found are not that much above thinking..that if you keep relying on such, you will be stuck in a web of negative and positive which is duality...it doesn not make you go that much higher than that.  Only connecting to the spirit totally without any distractions of the outside will one find the most powerful energy which is spirit and that is who we are.  It is unfair to claim that ex-members are not true seekers. All are spirit and all will get there! There are no chose ones.  All are chosen and all will arrive sooner or later because God is everyone of us non excluded!!!
                               I felt stuck after a while of not seeing any improvements on me or my sahaj siblings...all were so distracted trying to organize the group.  I no longer felt I was "evolving" at that slow pace.  Eventually we have to unplug from all group systems and unite as one...spirit doesnt know any name such as sahaja yoga..it is still creation...while spirit observes many things are created.  It is really true that when in a group one goes with the 'flock" and does not really take responsability to get rid of fears etc.   I found that I was afraid to leave sahaja yoga scared that I would no longer feel vibrations...well guess what....I feel an amazing energy which is my spirit and incredible intuition much more powerful than I ever did before.   ALl is a part of evolution and so was SY for me..but that is not the ultimate.  There are no rights and wrongs and no mistakes in life...nothing I regret....but I am not staying in the fears of group conditionings.  I wish all would see how many conditionings you have aquired in SY too...and how much you fear to even hug your parents who are not in sahaja yoga because they have negativity?  isnt this fear?  how can your heart be open with that kind of fear?  if we separate we are not being in spirit...anything that separates is ego!  non-sahaja yogies vs sahaja yogies IS separation...and that fear will limit you.  It is your choice.  I love the entire world and feel all in me and me in all. 

                              --- On Fri, 1/28/11, talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                              From: talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com>
                              Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                              To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                              Received: Friday, January 28, 2011, 7:00 AM

                               

                              Hey
                              still alive and kicking...
                              check out www.shri-mataji.org and www.sahajayogafacs.info

                              cheers
                              s.

                              --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, "victorysnear" <victorysnear@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > I know it's been a very hard job for all those wonderful ex sahaja yogis to keep this place working. You've given so much to others here! I'll never thank you enough.
                              > Even though, I think time has come to change this place. Make a Blog out of it. Keep the memory of your past for other victims of this dreadful cult and don't let this place fall into the hands of sy cult. I know each of you has your own busy life, you're so clever and bright, interested in your families, in culture and in fun too. You have moved on, I know. You deserve it. But the work you've done must be kept for others until sy disapears, it won't be a long time, victory's near...
                              > My regards to TASY group
                              > Vic
                              >
                              > --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, isaac iba <iba22000@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > hi noé, i'm too here in this group to talk about my deeply experiences with
                              > > sahaja yoga ,i think we are so lucky to be a sahaja yogi ,but a good because
                              > > many persons whose was abuse with a false or bad sahaja yogi have now a bad
                              > > experience about sahaja yoga and some of them who wasn't a true seekers feel
                              > > deception but i want to encourage you to be sincere with the relationship
                              > > between you and the mother kundalini whose have been awakened by the power of
                              > > shri mataji...
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > ________________________________
                              > > De : Noe Fosso Kamga <nfossokamga@>
                              > > À : talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                              > > Envoyé le : Mer 15 décembre 2010, 15h 06min 45s
                              > > Objet : [talk-about-sy] comments
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Hi, my name is Fosso Kamga Noe.I have been a sahaja yogi since five years.I want
                              > > here in this group, to talk about what I feel in sahaja yoga.I want to say what
                              > > great bliss is the work doing by Shri mataji. and I hope, all of members of the
                              > > group, will understand and share with me.
                              > >
                              >






                               

                            • Clive Bates
                              We re just talking about the meaning of words, what has hta got to do with being in a cult ? I agree entirely with where Yogini Kumar is coming from too...
                              Message 14 of 29 , Feb 19, 2011
                              • 0 Attachment
                                We're just talking about the meaning of words, what has hta got to do with being in a cult ?

                                I agree entirely with where 'Yogini Kumar' is coming from too... anyone who says that the group that calls itself SY is the only way to go is wrong.

                                But the words Sahaja Yoga mean 'Spontaneous union' , describing what happens when one gets' their realisation.

                                She's perfectly correct in all her analogy, except limiting the words Sahaja Yopga to a group.

                                Of course a realised soul, wether they call themselves a Sahaja Yogi or not should always be a gentle forgiving person.

                                I no trouble accepting that people see the group that calls itself SY as a cult, it's easy to see why they do, and perfectly understandable why.

                                I feel sorry for those who feel that they have to attack others, it's not good for the heart, and no way to create a better world...God knows we need peace in the world.

                                For me 'God' is a word for the Go[o]d in people.




                                From: Theresa Healy <sailorterri39@...>
                                To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Saturday, 19 February, 2011 15:25:16
                                Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                 

                                I'm on the same wave length as you yogini, and love how you express yourself and use of words. However, your wasting your time, he's brainwashed. He has experienced something, and formed a life, to rip that from him now will only create a hole he may not be able to fill. Trust me, I've wanted to say all this to my sister who is still in SY. In the end it must be their own choice, experience and path that brings them back to reality, no matter what words we use, only a truley significant experience that can not be explained by SM's imaginary doing will bring them out... in other words, a miracle by something or someone real, good luck finding that (and even then they will probably create some kind of excuse in their heads like SM created that person therefore.....)

                                Perhaps its only the inner spirit that will chose whether a person leaves a cult, or has it ever occurred to you perhaps its their inner spirit that keeps them in a cult. How much do we really know whats going on in this world? Why did he end up in SY in the first place. In many cases drug addicts end up in it, and to leave would only return them to their former lives. To leave was right for you and me, and I want the truth out too... but coming out can be worse then staying in if the support networks are not there. I was lucky i had support, you were lucky? you had support? but you leave a lot of friends and loved ones behind by leaving a cult, sometimes its better remaining brainwashed, living in the illusion, if the alternative means..... well.... a possible hell on earth.

                                Then again if you can leave, you become a stronger soul because of it... but is that what everythings about evolving? becoming stronger willed? becoming ones own master? hmmm i guess...... Its all a mystery....... some food for thought :)

                                --- On Sat, 19/2/11, Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...> wrote:

                                From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                Received: Saturday, 19 February, 2011, 7:42 AM

                                 

                                Do you know what Muslims believe?  That all are born to Islam.  Meaning all are born in submission to God.  This is as true as your statement.  Does it mean we have to separate each other and fear each other for not being in THAT?  Just so you know---  I was as deep as anyone can get in Sahaja Yoga for many many years.  The reason I left is because of other's fear of my divorce--they were scared that SY would get a bad name---that is how fearful people are in there! and uncompassionate as a result.. but my years there I felt vibrations with ease, and I have been a very clear person--- people know me as a very pure soul.  I am not against SY.  I feel that people should evolve past feeling vibrations, past fears of others, past separation of groups and judgement of each other.  You dont see it, but you are conditioned into group belief aside from vibrations.  And vibrations change all the time.  You can feel one person now and tomorrow feel him or her again and it might change---it will change for sure all the time...but many judge them from that moment they check.  There is a lot of fears in the group.  It is important to note them down when you introspect and overcome them.  I am not here to condemn but to really open your eyes if possible.  I said it before---Mahamaya is maya, but your spirit will never delude you---NEVER.  All is God and your experience of reality and others completely reflects from you.  Without you, you wouldnt see others nor this world as you see them...without YOU you would not feel what you feel, nor realize what you realize.  No one can transform you but your self by your own desire and will and readiness (even Shri Mataji says this!).  And this will happen under any circumstances which has no name, or organization or religion or meditation group.  Spirit even has a name that we gave it, but it still IS whether we name it or not...so you can call people or self realization as Sahaja yoga or sahaja yogies or  what you like, it doesnt mean that is what they are, that is what you think they are by your belief--and beliefs are man made.  

                                --- On Sat, 2/19/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                                From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                Received: Saturday, February 19, 2011, 12:02 AM

                                 
                                ...in that respect, anyone who is self-realised is a Sahaja Yogi; someone in the sate of Yoga, which is something that happens spontaneously through the opening of the Sahasrara.






                                From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 22:15:37
                                Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                 
                                Someone is only 'in Sahaja Yoga' if they are aware of themselves and remain in that awareness.

                                Sahaja Yoga is a state of BEING, that's why ot is called pure religion...Religion itself is an process of introspection, something that is undertaken...again people use concepts to suti their awareness of the world and their place in it.

                                Attempts at organising religion, the aspiration, is also being religious, until that is the spontanaity is lost amidst dogmatism born of people who do not know their SELF and so do not know true freedom.



                                From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 21:54:17
                                Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                 
                                In other words, Sahaja Yoga has NOTHING to do with beingness and existance..it is for some, a way to get to  THEIR OWN awareness but it is not awareness itself nor beingness itself.  It is still a lable and an illusion, and so the same would be any Guru...a finger pointing at the moon is not the moon.  All ends up in "I AM"  God is also "I AM" and so is each of us..meaning all is the same, us, incarnations,all the same! " I AM" is the basis and that can happen to anyone at any point in time when one is ready by any means, not just Sahaja Yoga.  I have met very mature saintly people who havent even heard of Sahaja Yoga. 

                                --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...> wrote:

                                From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 9:46 PM

                                 

                                Yes...but are all BEINGS IN Sahaja yoga?  does beingness require that one should be a Sahaja Yogi?  Is existance without meaning without Sahaja Yoga? Sahaja Yoga is a teaching or the return to our selves, but we should graduate at some point, just like you do from school.  Become truly your own master and rely on your inner self.
                                --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                                From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 8:48 PM

                                 
                                Sahaja Yoga is a state of being, Shri Mataji has always taught from that perspective...hence the essence of absloute truth being in all things. It's only the mind that interprets things wrongly.



                                From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 19:19:59
                                Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                 
                                 The main thing I have learned is that one is ONE within spirit and and even kundalini is part of creation.  Vibrations I have found are not that much above thinking..that if you keep relying on such, you will be stuck in a web of negative and positive which is duality...it doesn not make you go that much higher than that.  Only connecting to the spirit totally without any distractions of the outside will one find the most powerful energy which is spirit and that is who we are.  It is unfair to claim that ex-members are not true seekers. All are spirit and all will get there! There are no chose ones.  All are chosen and all will arrive sooner or later because God is everyone of us non excluded!!!
                                 I felt stuck after a while of not seeing any improvements on me or my sahaj siblings...all were so distracted trying to organize the group.  I no longer felt I was "evolving" at that slow pace.  Eventually we have to unplug from all group systems and unite as one...spirit doesnt know any name such as sahaja yoga..it is still creation...while spirit observes many things are created.  It is really true that when in a group one goes with the 'flock" and does not really take responsability to get rid of fears etc.   I found that I was afraid to leave sahaja yoga scared that I would no longer feel vibrations...well guess what....I feel an amazing energy which is my spirit and incredible intuition much more powerful than I ever did before.   ALl is a part of evolution and so was SY for me..but that is not the ultimate.  There are no rights and wrongs and no mistakes in life...nothing I regret....but I am not staying in the fears of group conditionings.  I wish all would see how many conditionings you have aquired in SY too...and how much you fear to even hug your parents who are not in sahaja yoga because they have negativity?  isnt this fear?  how can your heart be open with that kind of fear?  if we separate we are not being in spirit...anything that separates is ego!  non-sahaja yogies vs sahaja yogies IS separation...and that fear will limit you.  It is your choice.  I love the entire world and feel all in me and me in all. 

                                --- On Fri, 1/28/11, talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                From: talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com>
                                Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                Received: Friday, January 28, 2011, 7:00 AM

                                 

                                Hey
                                still alive and kicking...
                                check out www.shri-mataji.org and www.sahajayogafacs.info

                                cheers
                                s.

                                --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, "victorysnear" <victorysnear@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I know it's been a very hard job for all those wonderful ex sahaja yogis to keep this place working. You've given so much to others here! I'll never thank you enough.
                                > Even though, I think time has come to change this place. Make a Blog out of it. Keep the memory of your past for other victims of this dreadful cult and don't let this place fall into the hands of sy cult. I know each of you has your own busy life, you're so clever and bright, interested in your families, in culture and in fun too. You have moved on, I know. You deserve it. But the work you've done must be kept for others until sy disapears, it won't be a long time, victory's near...
                                > My regards to TASY group
                                > Vic
                                >
                                > --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, isaac iba <iba22000@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > hi noé, i'm too here in this group to talk about my deeply experiences with
                                > > sahaja yoga ,i think we are so lucky to be a sahaja yogi ,but a good because
                                > > many persons whose was abuse with a false or bad sahaja yogi have now a bad
                                > > experience about sahaja yoga and some of them who wasn't a true seekers feel
                                > > deception but i want to encourage you to be sincere with the relationship
                                > > between you and the mother kundalini whose have been awakened by the power of
                                > > shri mataji...
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > ________________________________
                                > > De : Noe Fosso Kamga <nfossokamga@>
                                > > À : talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                > > Envoyé le : Mer 15 décembre 2010, 15h 06min 45s
                                > > Objet : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Hi, my name is Fosso Kamga Noe.I have been a sahaja yogi since five years.I want
                                > > here in this group, to talk about what I feel in sahaja yoga.I want to say what
                                > > great bliss is the work doing by Shri mataji. and I hope, all of members of the
                                > > group, will understand and share with me.
                                > >
                                >






                                 

                              • Clive Bates
                                Well done Yogini, your reply is heartwarming and I am grateful... I still go in and out of the group as I please, there are many great souls there, and many
                                Message 15 of 29 , Feb 19, 2011
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Well done Yogini, your reply is heartwarming and I am grateful...

                                  I still go in and out of the group as I please, there are many great souls there, and many demonic types, but to me the reason for a group like that is so people can see themselves, wether they are good or bad themselves, and gain confidence in their SELF. Also, being able to meditate in a group can slowly help everyone to realise, good as well as bad, that no'one has all the solutions and that thesolution will only come when people give up their egos and foolishenss ...of course it is scary at times as people can be terrible, but that is because they are insecure in themselves...so one learns who to pay attention to and who to avoid, and how to avoid the negativity while remaining connected to the absolute and so remaining as a beacon for peace...WHATEVERTHE SITUATION ONE MAY FIND ONESELF IN. Just imagine all the children who have no CHOICE but to remain in situations like that, in war zones, in abusive families...how ccan we help them ?!  That is my desire.

                                  I feel sorry for those who don't feel strong enough to leave the cultish atmosphere that can arise in the group, they are binding themselves, but of course if they come from truobled backgrounds, as I did, they may feel they have no where else to go, that is the tradgedy. I was lucky that I new how to live on the street as well, even so I prefered being in the group, until I was able to stand on my own two feet. I still need help from time to time and simply meditating on my own without any mantras other than 'Mother please make me part and parcel of the whole' is all I need, other than that all I need is to Love and to give love, regardless of who I'm with.

                                  Just imagine all the suffering in the world because of all those demonic types whothink that they are doing the right thing even thought hey are killing so many innocent children, how are we to stop all that ? Only by being an example of what's right I guess...I pray we forever maintain the strength of character to be that example and to do good works.

                                  with Love




                                  From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                  To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Saturday, 19 February, 2011 17:07:22
                                  Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                   


                                  Dear Theresa and Clive( and all who are reading this).
                                   
                                  Thank you for your message.  It has been nearly two years since I left SY.  I was so heart broken as I got along with everyone and never had conflicts.  I truly did feel stuck and I was genuinely in SY only to find my SELF and it helped me to get intune with awareness and energy.  Shri Mataji has been my guru and I will never deny that because I do believe that my inner self did select this path and it felt right for me and it was right for me. 
                                   
                                  When I left, SY had been my life for many years and it was literally more important than anything.  I had incredible experiences and felt vibrations without even having to check.  I felt cool breeze very strong, but guess what?  I still do! (because it IS--this energy is my own)  Leaving SY now I realize was the best thing for me because I could "unplug" from all the fears and conditionings and face it all.  My biggest fear was leaving SY and not believing in Shri Mataji.  I did unplug from all that, from the group, from SM too.  I no longer meditated infront of the picture or candle and I put my entire attention, mind and heart in being in spirit.  In other words, my awareness grew incredibly because I was no longer placing my attention outside of myself.  Vibrations became this incredible energy that penetrated and connected to everything and everyone, and then one sees that all the lables and fears are truly things that we give power to by believing in them.  There is incredible loving energy within and when you use this energy to feed fears, they become real to you, and so do many other things.  In SY many people are reactive to even their own vibrations.  They catch and what do they do?  they react, the moment one reacts one is giving reality to that catch, and trust me that that catch will return, because we have made it more alive by our belief in it. We hate negativity within us and so we hate negativity in others and we condemn others because we cannot accept ourselves from fear of negativity...but arent we giving more negativity because reaction is friction and creates more negativity?  Only loving presence can dissolve it all.  If I get negativity in my body, I will feel it fully with love and awareness and I will see if there is an emotion or thought attached to it that I need to resolve within myself...otherwise this keeps reocurring...and behaviour patterns keep repeating.  Clearing chakras over and over is not going to help if people cannot truly approach their self and others with love and understanding, with total awareness of feelings and thoughts and situations with full heart.  When we place our full attention within, our power becomes complete.  There is nothing deluding us anymore and trust me--one does go above vibratory state!  and you dont need to recognize anything but your spirit...remove all else!  names, stories, past, conditioned fears.  See?  you just need to say one "false" gurus name and the entire SY collective will cringe, but this reaction will only make them be caught up in that illusion.  It is all illusion and there is no reason to react.  There is no reason to condemn and hate.  Hating hate is just more hate--and it is no different than trying to take revenge--but who are we taking revenge from or hating?  just an idea, a belief because if we are LOVE we cannot see anything but LOVE.  Anyone who is ready to awake, will awake and it doesn't matter who is standing infront, because all in the background IS GOD.  So, just unplug from it all and face with love all your feelings and thoughts and when you accept your inner most feelings and thoughts, the ones that dont serve YOU will melt away.  Syogies keep reacting within and that will keep them in the web of vibrations...because negativity to them is BAD...they cannot see that it is a message telling them something...if they just listen---maybe it is telling them they are fearing something and to feel it fully so it melts away...but when people follow by beliefs rather than feelings, then these beliefs will block feelings and intuition and this is why I said "unplug from it all".  SYogies then go to treatments, but keep the fears...they even go to Vashi and get cleared, return home to the same catches because their reactions and fears and supressed feelings have not been resolved.
                                    I did not want to bring this up, but I heard that Shri Mataji is under psychotic drugs and many yogies will say she is Mahamaya, etc.  They will fear or react...and non yogies will say "see, I told you so", but what I feel not to judge but allow it all to be as it is and there is no need to even get involved in the Maya--be your own master in your own spirit!--spirit is the chageless and there is no maya in it! (in fact Shri Mataji says to be your own master, your own guru!)  We are all connected by love and peace essence and we cannot change that...we can change and believe in whatever we want.  Everything that changes is illusive and that includes vibrations!  So to yogies and no yogies I would advise to unplug from it all and you will see how many fears you are giving power to an that in exchange are rulling you back...recognize the obstacles you have placed against your SELF/ LOVE.  If one is still seeing "others" as different from one self, then one is not self realized---Heaven is not a place--it is ONENESS and yet, this realization is indivdual and it is not a belief and it wont happen because you belong to a group.  Many Sahaja Yogies could not even feel vibrations--and that is the proof--that it is indeed individual and one has to really take full responsability with full awareness.  ALL IS GOD namless and unmanifest within as spirit, and we are all LOVE and must be LOVE to recognize it.
                                  --- On Sat, 2/19/11, Theresa Healy <sailorterri39@...> wrote:

                                  From: Theresa Healy <sailorterri39@...>
                                  Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                  To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                  Received: Saturday, February 19, 2011, 3:25 PM

                                   
                                  I'm on the same wave length as you yogini, and love how you express yourself and use of words. However, your wasting your time, he's brainwashed. He has experienced something, and formed a life, to rip that from him now will only create a hole he may not be able to fill. Trust me, I've wanted to say all this to my sister who is still in SY. In the end it must be their own choice, experience and path that brings them back to reality, no matter what words we use, only a truley significant experience that can not be explained by SM's imaginary doing will bring them out... in other words, a miracle by something or someone real, good luck finding that (and even then they will probably create some kind of excuse in their heads like SM created that person therefore.....)

                                  Perhaps its only the inner spirit that will chose whether a person leaves a cult, or has it ever occurred to you perhaps its their inner spirit that keeps them in a cult. How much do we really know whats going on in this world? Why did he end up in SY in the first place. In many cases drug addicts end up in it, and to leave would only return them to their former lives. To leave was right for you and me, and I want the truth out too... but coming out can be worse then staying in if the support networks are not there. I was lucky i had support, you were lucky? you had support? but you leave a lot of friends and loved ones behind by leaving a cult, sometimes its better remaining brainwashed, living in the illusion, if the alternative means..... well.... a possible hell on earth.

                                  Then again if you can leave, you become a stronger soul because of it... but is that what everythings about evolving? becoming stronger willed? becoming ones own master? hmmm i guess...... Its all a mystery....... some food for thought :)

                                  --- On Sat, 19/2/11, Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...> wrote:

                                  From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                  Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                  To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                  Received: Saturday, 19 February, 2011, 7:42 AM

                                   
                                  Do you know what Muslims believe?  That all are born to Islam.  Meaning all are born in submission to God.  This is as true as your statement.  Does it mean we have to separate each other and fear each other for not being in THAT?  Just so you know---  I was as deep as anyone can get in Sahaja Yoga for many many years.  The reason I left is because of other's fear of my divorce--they were scared that SY would get a bad name---that is how fearful people are in there! and uncompassionate as a result.. but my years there I felt vibrations with ease, and I have been a very clear person--- people know me as a very pure soul.  I am not against SY.  I feel that people should evolve past feeling vibrations, past fears of others, past separation of groups and judgement of each other.  You dont see it, but you are conditioned into group belief aside from vibrations.  And vibrations change all the time.  You can feel one person now and tomorrow feel him or her again and it might change---it will change for sure all the time...but many judge them from that moment they check.  There is a lot of fears in the group.  It is important to note them down when you introspect and overcome them.  I am not here to condemn but to really open your eyes if possible.  I said it before---Mahamaya is maya, but your spirit will never delude you---NEVER.  All is God and your experience of reality and others completely reflects from you.  Without you, you wouldnt see others nor this world as you see them...without YOU you would not feel what you feel, nor realize what you realize.  No one can transform you but your self by your own desire and will and readiness (even Shri Mataji says this!).  And this will happen under any circumstances which has no name, or organization or religion or meditation group.  Spirit even has a name that we gave it, but it still IS whether we name it or not...so you can call people or self realization as Sahaja yoga or sahaja yogies or  what you like, it doesnt mean that is what they are, that is what you think they are by your belief--and beliefs are man made.  

                                  --- On Sat, 2/19/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                                  From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                  Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                  To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                  Received: Saturday, February 19, 2011, 12:02 AM

                                   
                                  ...in that respect, anyone who is self-realised is a Sahaja Yogi; someone in the sate of Yoga, which is something that happens spontaneously through the opening of the Sahasrara.






                                  From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                  To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 22:15:37
                                  Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                   
                                  Someone is only 'in Sahaja Yoga' if they are aware of themselves and remain in that awareness.

                                  Sahaja Yoga is a state of BEING, that's why ot is called pure religion...Religion itself is an process of introspection, something that is undertaken...again people use concepts to suti their awareness of the world and their place in it.

                                  Attempts at organising religion, the aspiration, is also being religious, until that is the spontanaity is lost amidst dogmatism born of people who do not know their SELF and so do not know true freedom.



                                  From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                  To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 21:54:17
                                  Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                   
                                  In other words, Sahaja Yoga has NOTHING to do with beingness and existance..it is for some, a way to get to  THEIR OWN awareness but it is not awareness itself nor beingness itself.  It is still a lable and an illusion, and so the same would be any Guru...a finger pointing at the moon is not the moon.  All ends up in "I AM"  God is also "I AM" and so is each of us..meaning all is the same, us, incarnations,all the same! " I AM" is the basis and that can happen to anyone at any point in time when one is ready by any means, not just Sahaja Yoga.  I have met very mature saintly people who havent even heard of Sahaja Yoga. 

                                  --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...> wrote:

                                  From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                  Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                  To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                  Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 9:46 PM

                                   

                                  Yes...but are all BEINGS IN Sahaja yoga?  does beingness require that one should be a Sahaja Yogi?  Is existance without meaning without Sahaja Yoga? Sahaja Yoga is a teaching or the return to our selves, but we should graduate at some point, just like you do from school.  Become truly your own master and rely on your inner self.
                                  --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                                  From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                  Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                  To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                  Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 8:48 PM

                                   
                                  Sahaja Yoga is a state of being, Shri Mataji has always taught from that perspective...hence the essence of absloute truth being in all things. It's only the mind that interprets things wrongly.



                                  From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                  To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 19:19:59
                                  Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                   
                                   The main thing I have learned is that one is ONE within spirit and and even kundalini is part of creation.  Vibrations I have found are not that much above thinking..that if you keep relying on such, you will be stuck in a web of negative and positive which is duality...it doesn not make you go that much higher than that.  Only connecting to the spirit totally without any distractions of the outside will one find the most powerful energy which is spirit and that is who we are.  It is unfair to claim that ex-members are not true seekers. All are spirit and all will get there! There are no chose ones.  All are chosen and all will arrive sooner or later because God is everyone of us non excluded!!!
                                   I felt stuck after a while of not seeing any improvements on me or my sahaj siblings...all were so distracted trying to organize the group.  I no longer felt I was "evolving" at that slow pace.  Eventually we have to unplug from all group systems and unite as one...spirit doesnt know any name such as sahaja yoga..it is still creation...while spirit observes many things are created.  It is really true that when in a group one goes with the 'flock" and does not really take responsability to get rid of fears etc.   I found that I was afraid to leave sahaja yoga scared that I would no longer feel vibrations...well guess what....I feel an amazing energy which is my spirit and incredible intuition much more powerful than I ever did before.   ALl is a part of evolution and so was SY for me..but that is not the ultimate.  There are no rights and wrongs and no mistakes in life...nothing I regret....but I am not staying in the fears of group conditionings.  I wish all would see how many conditionings you have aquired in SY too...and how much you fear to even hug your parents who are not in sahaja yoga because they have negativity?  isnt this fear?  how can your heart be open with that kind of fear?  if we separate we are not being in spirit...anything that separates is ego!  non-sahaja yogies vs sahaja yogies IS separation...and that fear will limit you.  It is your choice.  I love the entire world and feel all in me and me in all. 

                                  --- On Fri, 1/28/11, talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                  From: talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                  To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                  Received: Friday, January 28, 2011, 7:00 AM

                                   

                                  Hey
                                  still alive and kicking...
                                  check out www.shri-mataji.org and www.sahajayogafacs.info

                                  cheers
                                  s.

                                  --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, "victorysnear" <victorysnear@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I know it's been a very hard job for all those wonderful ex sahaja yogis to keep this place working. You've given so much to others here! I'll never thank you enough.
                                  > Even though, I think time has come to change this place. Make a Blog out of it. Keep the memory of your past for other victims of this dreadful cult and don't let this place fall into the hands of sy cult. I know each of you has your own busy life, you're so clever and bright, interested in your families, in culture and in fun too. You have moved on, I know. You deserve it. But the work you've done must be kept for others until sy disapears, it won't be a long time, victory's near...
                                  > My regards to TASY group
                                  > Vic
                                  >
                                  > --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, isaac iba <iba22000@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > hi noé, i'm too here in this group to talk about my deeply experiences with
                                  > > sahaja yoga ,i think we are so lucky to be a sahaja yogi ,but a good because
                                  > > many persons whose was abuse with a false or bad sahaja yogi have now a bad
                                  > > experience about sahaja yoga and some of them who wasn't a true seekers feel
                                  > > deception but i want to encourage you to be sincere with the relationship
                                  > > between you and the mother kundalini whose have been awakened by the power of
                                  > > shri mataji...
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > ________________________________
                                  > > De : Noe Fosso Kamga <nfossokamga@>
                                  > > À : talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > Envoyé le : Mer 15 décembre 2010, 15h 06min 45s
                                  > > Objet : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Hi, my name is Fosso Kamga Noe.I have been a sahaja yogi since five years.I want
                                  > > here in this group, to talk about what I feel in sahaja yoga.I want to say what
                                  > > great bliss is the work doing by Shri mataji. and I hope, all of members of the
                                  > > group, will understand and share with me.
                                  > >
                                  >






                                   

                                • Clive Bates
                                  When I picture the SELF in respect to knowing how one is in yoga, I see Shri Shiva siting on a corpse surrouded by bhoots, completely aware of them but
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Feb 19, 2011
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    When I picture the SELF in respect to knowing how one is in yoga, I see Shri Shiva siting on a corpse surrouded by bhoots, completely aware of them but completely detached and unafraid, giving only blissful vibrations to everything...

                                    Trusting that you have found peace that you can maintain and the strength to spread it as is your hearts' desire.

                                    Jai Shri Mataji




                                    From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                    To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Saturday, 19 February, 2011 17:33:32
                                    Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                     

                                    Well done Yogini, your reply is heartwarming and I am grateful...

                                    I still go in and out of the group as I please, there are many great souls there, and many demonic types, but to me the reason for a group like that is so people can see themselves, wether they are good or bad themselves, and gain confidence in their SELF. Also, being able to meditate in a group can slowly help everyone to realise, good as well as bad, that no'one has all the solutions and that thesolution will only come when people give up their egos and foolishenss ...of course it is scary at times as people can be terrible, but that is because they are insecure in themselves...so one learns who to pay attention to and who to avoid, and how to avoid the negativity while remaining connected to the absolute and so remaining as a beacon for peace...WHATEVERTHE SITUATION ONE MAY FIND ONESELF IN. Just imagine all the children who have no CHOICE but to remain in situations like that, in war zones, in abusive families...how ccan we help them ?!  That is my desire.

                                    I feel sorry for those who don't feel strong enough to leave the cultish atmosphere that can arise in the group, they are binding themselves, but of course if they come from truobled backgrounds, as I did, they may feel they have no where else to go, that is the tradgedy. I was lucky that I new how to live on the street as well, even so I prefered being in the group, until I was able to stand on my own two feet. I still need help from time to time and simply meditating on my own without any mantras other than 'Mother please make me part and parcel of the whole' is all I need, other than that all I need is to Love and to give love, regardless of who I'm with.

                                    Just imagine all the suffering in the world because of all those demonic types whothink that they are doing the right thing even thought hey are killing so many innocent children, how are we to stop all that ? Only by being an example of what's right I guess...I pray we forever maintain the strength of character to be that example and to do good works.

                                    with Love




                                    From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                    To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Saturday, 19 February, 2011 17:07:22
                                    Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                     


                                    Dear Theresa and Clive( and all who are reading this).
                                     
                                    Thank you for your message.  It has been nearly two years since I left SY.  I was so heart broken as I got along with everyone and never had conflicts.  I truly did feel stuck and I was genuinely in SY only to find my SELF and it helped me to get intune with awareness and energy.  Shri Mataji has been my guru and I will never deny that because I do believe that my inner self did select this path and it felt right for me and it was right for me. 
                                     
                                    When I left, SY had been my life for many years and it was literally more important than anything.  I had incredible experiences and felt vibrations without even having to check.  I felt cool breeze very strong, but guess what?  I still do! (because it IS--this energy is my own)  Leaving SY now I realize was the best thing for me because I could "unplug" from all the fears and conditionings and face it all.  My biggest fear was leaving SY and not believing in Shri Mataji.  I did unplug from all that, from the group, from SM too.  I no longer meditated infront of the picture or candle and I put my entire attention, mind and heart in being in spirit.  In other words, my awareness grew incredibly because I was no longer placing my attention outside of myself.  Vibrations became this incredible energy that penetrated and connected to everything and everyone, and then one sees that all the lables and fears are truly things that we give power to by believing in them.  There is incredible loving energy within and when you use this energy to feed fears, they become real to you, and so do many other things.  In SY many people are reactive to even their own vibrations.  They catch and what do they do?  they react, the moment one reacts one is giving reality to that catch, and trust me that that catch will return, because we have made it more alive by our belief in it. We hate negativity within us and so we hate negativity in others and we condemn others because we cannot accept ourselves from fear of negativity...but arent we giving more negativity because reaction is friction and creates more negativity?  Only loving presence can dissolve it all.  If I get negativity in my body, I will feel it fully with love and awareness and I will see if there is an emotion or thought attached to it that I need to resolve within myself...otherwise this keeps reocurring...and behaviour patterns keep repeating.  Clearing chakras over and over is not going to help if people cannot truly approach their self and others with love and understanding, with total awareness of feelings and thoughts and situations with full heart.  When we place our full attention within, our power becomes complete.  There is nothing deluding us anymore and trust me--one does go above vibratory state!  and you dont need to recognize anything but your spirit...remove all else!  names, stories, past, conditioned fears.  See?  you just need to say one "false" gurus name and the entire SY collective will cringe, but this reaction will only make them be caught up in that illusion.  It is all illusion and there is no reason to react.  There is no reason to condemn and hate.  Hating hate is just more hate--and it is no different than trying to take revenge--but who are we taking revenge from or hating?  just an idea, a belief because if we are LOVE we cannot see anything but LOVE.  Anyone who is ready to awake, will awake and it doesn't matter who is standing infront, because all in the background IS GOD.  So, just unplug from it all and face with love all your feelings and thoughts and when you accept your inner most feelings and thoughts, the ones that dont serve YOU will melt away.  Syogies keep reacting within and that will keep them in the web of vibrations...because negativity to them is BAD...they cannot see that it is a message telling them something...if they just listen---maybe it is telling them they are fearing something and to feel it fully so it melts away...but when people follow by beliefs rather than feelings, then these beliefs will block feelings and intuition and this is why I said "unplug from it all".  SYogies then go to treatments, but keep the fears...they even go to Vashi and get cleared, return home to the same catches because their reactions and fears and supressed feelings have not been resolved.
                                      I did not want to bring this up, but I heard that Shri Mataji is under psychotic drugs and many yogies will say she is Mahamaya, etc.  They will fear or react...and non yogies will say "see, I told you so", but what I feel not to judge but allow it all to be as it is and there is no need to even get involved in the Maya--be your own master in your own spirit!--spirit is the chageless and there is no maya in it! (in fact Shri Mataji says to be your own master, your own guru!)  We are all connected by love and peace essence and we cannot change that...we can change and believe in whatever we want.  Everything that changes is illusive and that includes vibrations!  So to yogies and no yogies I would advise to unplug from it all and you will see how many fears you are giving power to an that in exchange are rulling you back...recognize the obstacles you have placed against your SELF/ LOVE.  If one is still seeing "others" as different from one self, then one is not self realized---Heaven is not a place--it is ONENESS and yet, this realization is indivdual and it is not a belief and it wont happen because you belong to a group.  Many Sahaja Yogies could not even feel vibrations--and that is the proof--that it is indeed individual and one has to really take full responsability with full awareness.  ALL IS GOD namless and unmanifest within as spirit, and we are all LOVE and must be LOVE to recognize it.
                                    --- On Sat, 2/19/11, Theresa Healy <sailorterri39@...> wrote:

                                    From: Theresa Healy <sailorterri39@...>
                                    Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                    To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                    Received: Saturday, February 19, 2011, 3:25 PM

                                     
                                    I'm on the same wave length as you yogini, and love how you express yourself and use of words. However, your wasting your time, he's brainwashed. He has experienced something, and formed a life, to rip that from him now will only create a hole he may not be able to fill. Trust me, I've wanted to say all this to my sister who is still in SY. In the end it must be their own choice, experience and path that brings them back to reality, no matter what words we use, only a truley significant experience that can not be explained by SM's imaginary doing will bring them out... in other words, a miracle by something or someone real, good luck finding that (and even then they will probably create some kind of excuse in their heads like SM created that person therefore.....)

                                    Perhaps its only the inner spirit that will chose whether a person leaves a cult, or has it ever occurred to you perhaps its their inner spirit that keeps them in a cult. How much do we really know whats going on in this world? Why did he end up in SY in the first place. In many cases drug addicts end up in it, and to leave would only return them to their former lives. To leave was right for you and me, and I want the truth out too... but coming out can be worse then staying in if the support networks are not there. I was lucky i had support, you were lucky? you had support? but you leave a lot of friends and loved ones behind by leaving a cult, sometimes its better remaining brainwashed, living in the illusion, if the alternative means..... well.... a possible hell on earth.

                                    Then again if you can leave, you become a stronger soul because of it... but is that what everythings about evolving? becoming stronger willed? becoming ones own master? hmmm i guess...... Its all a mystery....... some food for thought :)

                                    --- On Sat, 19/2/11, Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...> wrote:

                                    From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                    Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                    To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                    Received: Saturday, 19 February, 2011, 7:42 AM

                                     
                                    Do you know what Muslims believe?  That all are born to Islam.  Meaning all are born in submission to God.  This is as true as your statement.  Does it mean we have to separate each other and fear each other for not being in THAT?  Just so you know---  I was as deep as anyone can get in Sahaja Yoga for many many years.  The reason I left is because of other's fear of my divorce--they were scared that SY would get a bad name---that is how fearful people are in there! and uncompassionate as a result.. but my years there I felt vibrations with ease, and I have been a very clear person--- people know me as a very pure soul.  I am not against SY.  I feel that people should evolve past feeling vibrations, past fears of others, past separation of groups and judgement of each other.  You dont see it, but you are conditioned into group belief aside from vibrations.  And vibrations change all the time.  You can feel one person now and tomorrow feel him or her again and it might change---it will change for sure all the time...but many judge them from that moment they check.  There is a lot of fears in the group.  It is important to note them down when you introspect and overcome them.  I am not here to condemn but to really open your eyes if possible.  I said it before---Mahamaya is maya, but your spirit will never delude you---NEVER.  All is God and your experience of reality and others completely reflects from you.  Without you, you wouldnt see others nor this world as you see them...without YOU you would not feel what you feel, nor realize what you realize.  No one can transform you but your self by your own desire and will and readiness (even Shri Mataji says this!).  And this will happen under any circumstances which has no name, or organization or religion or meditation group.  Spirit even has a name that we gave it, but it still IS whether we name it or not...so you can call people or self realization as Sahaja yoga or sahaja yogies or  what you like, it doesnt mean that is what they are, that is what you think they are by your belief--and beliefs are man made.  

                                    --- On Sat, 2/19/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                                    From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                    Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                    To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                    Received: Saturday, February 19, 2011, 12:02 AM

                                     
                                    ...in that respect, anyone who is self-realised is a Sahaja Yogi; someone in the sate of Yoga, which is something that happens spontaneously through the opening of the Sahasrara.






                                    From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                    To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 22:15:37
                                    Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                     
                                    Someone is only 'in Sahaja Yoga' if they are aware of themselves and remain in that awareness.

                                    Sahaja Yoga is a state of BEING, that's why ot is called pure religion...Religion itself is an process of introspection, something that is undertaken...again people use concepts to suti their awareness of the world and their place in it.

                                    Attempts at organising religion, the aspiration, is also being religious, until that is the spontanaity is lost amidst dogmatism born of people who do not know their SELF and so do not know true freedom.



                                    From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                    To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 21:54:17
                                    Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                     
                                    In other words, Sahaja Yoga has NOTHING to do with beingness and existance..it is for some, a way to get to  THEIR OWN awareness but it is not awareness itself nor beingness itself.  It is still a lable and an illusion, and so the same would be any Guru...a finger pointing at the moon is not the moon.  All ends up in "I AM"  God is also "I AM" and so is each of us..meaning all is the same, us, incarnations,all the same! " I AM" is the basis and that can happen to anyone at any point in time when one is ready by any means, not just Sahaja Yoga.  I have met very mature saintly people who havent even heard of Sahaja Yoga. 

                                    --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...> wrote:

                                    From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                    Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                    To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                    Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 9:46 PM

                                     

                                    Yes...but are all BEINGS IN Sahaja yoga?  does beingness require that one should be a Sahaja Yogi?  Is existance without meaning without Sahaja Yoga? Sahaja Yoga is a teaching or the return to our selves, but we should graduate at some point, just like you do from school.  Become truly your own master and rely on your inner self.
                                    --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                                    From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                    Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                    To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                    Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 8:48 PM

                                     
                                    Sahaja Yoga is a state of being, Shri Mataji has always taught from that perspective...hence the essence of absloute truth being in all things. It's only the mind that interprets things wrongly.



                                    From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                    To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 19:19:59
                                    Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                     
                                     The main thing I have learned is that one is ONE within spirit and and even kundalini is part of creation.  Vibrations I have found are not that much above thinking..that if you keep relying on such, you will be stuck in a web of negative and positive which is duality...it doesn not make you go that much higher than that.  Only connecting to the spirit totally without any distractions of the outside will one find the most powerful energy which is spirit and that is who we are.  It is unfair to claim that ex-members are not true seekers. All are spirit and all will get there! There are no chose ones.  All are chosen and all will arrive sooner or later because God is everyone of us non excluded!!!
                                     I felt stuck after a while of not seeing any improvements on me or my sahaj siblings...all were so distracted trying to organize the group.  I no longer felt I was "evolving" at that slow pace.  Eventually we have to unplug from all group systems and unite as one...spirit doesnt know any name such as sahaja yoga..it is still creation...while spirit observes many things are created.  It is really true that when in a group one goes with the 'flock" and does not really take responsability to get rid of fears etc.   I found that I was afraid to leave sahaja yoga scared that I would no longer feel vibrations...well guess what....I feel an amazing energy which is my spirit and incredible intuition much more powerful than I ever did before.   ALl is a part of evolution and so was SY for me..but that is not the ultimate.  There are no rights and wrongs and no mistakes in life...nothing I regret....but I am not staying in the fears of group conditionings.  I wish all would see how many conditionings you have aquired in SY too...and how much you fear to even hug your parents who are not in sahaja yoga because they have negativity?  isnt this fear?  how can your heart be open with that kind of fear?  if we separate we are not being in spirit...anything that separates is ego!  non-sahaja yogies vs sahaja yogies IS separation...and that fear will limit you.  It is your choice.  I love the entire world and feel all in me and me in all. 

                                    --- On Fri, 1/28/11, talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                    From: talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                    To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                    Received: Friday, January 28, 2011, 7:00 AM

                                     

                                    Hey
                                    still alive and kicking...
                                    check out www.shri-mataji.org and www.sahajayogafacs.info

                                    cheers
                                    s.

                                    --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, "victorysnear" <victorysnear@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > I know it's been a very hard job for all those wonderful ex sahaja yogis to keep this place working. You've given so much to others here! I'll never thank you enough.
                                    > Even though, I think time has come to change this place. Make a Blog out of it. Keep the memory of your past for other victims of this dreadful cult and don't let this place fall into the hands of sy cult. I know each of you has your own busy life, you're so clever and bright, interested in your families, in culture and in fun too. You have moved on, I know. You deserve it. But the work you've done must be kept for others until sy disapears, it won't be a long time, victory's near...
                                    > My regards to TASY group
                                    > Vic
                                    >
                                    > --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, isaac iba <iba22000@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > hi noé, i'm too here in this group to talk about my deeply experiences with
                                    > > sahaja yoga ,i think we are so lucky to be a sahaja yogi ,but a good because
                                    > > many persons whose was abuse with a false or bad sahaja yogi have now a bad
                                    > > experience about sahaja yoga and some of them who wasn't a true seekers feel
                                    > > deception but i want to encourage you to be sincere with the relationship
                                    > > between you and the mother kundalini whose have been awakened by the power of
                                    > > shri mataji...
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > ________________________________
                                    > > De : Noe Fosso Kamga <nfossokamga@>
                                    > > À : talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > Envoyé le : Mer 15 décembre 2010, 15h 06min 45s
                                    > > Objet : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Hi, my name is Fosso Kamga Noe.I have been a sahaja yogi since five years.I want
                                    > > here in this group, to talk about what I feel in sahaja yoga.I want to say what
                                    > > great bliss is the work doing by Shri mataji. and I hope, all of members of the
                                    > > group, will understand and share with me.
                                    > >
                                    >






                                     

                                  • Clive Bates
                                    Have you realised yet that we are both saying the same thing, just using different words, in a different way ? (:-)) Sorry if I have opened old wounds for you.
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Feb 19, 2011
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Have you realised yet that we are both saying the same thing, just using different words, in a different way ? (:-))

                                      Sorry if I have opened old wounds for you.

                                      Sahaja Yoga , as they are written here, is just two words...

                                      What it means is a different story.

                                      The meaning of that saying amongst Muslims comes from the fact that we are all born innocent, helpless, at the mercy of things beyond our control, in effect, forcefully surrendered...

                                      And yet in that state, so long as we are well taken care of  we are completely free, more than we ever will be in ourlives, because we have no thought or expectatin of anything, all is a wonderful joygiving mystery, so long as we are taken care of...

                                      Kundalini is our Mother inside us, this you know .... so why worry about what other's think ?! You do so because you don't want to offend anyone...but sometimes you have to offend in order to show the truth isn't it...!!!

                                      I too was scorned by people for leaving my angry caught up Sahaj marriage...so, they would never understand until it happens to them...and I pray it never does because it's not nice...

                                      I eneded up marrying someone wjom I chose for myself, and still it was horrendous, for a long time, and guess what,  I realised we were both to blame,and if I changed myself things would get better...now we are like two peas in pod enjoying, especially after knowing how foolish we had both been before...people only fight when they scared....one who knows their self is automatically never scared.

                                      So now I am able to be one with my SELF, and am no longer afraid, and can go anywhere with confidence, and Love in my heart.

                                      Jai Shri Mataji

                                      P.S. EVERYTHING is 'MahaMaya' , it simply means 'Great Mystery'...even my cat is 'Maha Maya'

                                      As Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi Shrivastava herself once said...'Even this stone is God, the thing is it can't REALISE it'...it's inconcievable, but felt as Love and Truth by human beings who's desire is pure and peaceful.

                                      Life is what one makes it, within the boundaries of nature.

                                      Sorry for your troubles...one can only know it if one has walked in those shoes...I wouyld not wish that anyone should walk in mine.

                                      with Love, always.



                                      From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                      To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Saturday, 19 February, 2011 7:42:29
                                      Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                       

                                      Do you know what Muslims believe?  That all are born to Islam.  Meaning all are born in submission to God.  This is as true as your statement.  Does it mean we have to separate each other and fear each other for not being in THAT?  Just so you know---  I was as deep as anyone can get in Sahaja Yoga for many many years.  The reason I left is because of other's fear of my divorce--they were scared that SY would get a bad name---that is how fearful people are in there! and uncompassionate as a result.. but my years there I felt vibrations with ease, and I have been a very clear person--- people know me as a very pure soul.  I am not against SY.  I feel that people should evolve past feeling vibrations, past fears of others, past separation of groups and judgement of each other.  You dont see it, but you are conditioned into group belief aside from vibrations.  And vibrations change all the time.  You can feel one person now and tomorrow feel him or her again and it might change---it will change for sure all the time...but many judge them from that moment they check.  There is a lot of fears in the group.  It is important to note them down when you introspect and overcome them.  I am not here to condemn but to really open your eyes if possible.  I said it before---Mahamaya is maya, but your spirit will never delude you---NEVER.  All is God and your experience of reality and others completely reflects from you.  Without you, you wouldnt see others nor this world as you see them...without YOU you would not feel what you feel, nor realize what you realize.  No one can transform you but your self by your own desire and will and readiness (even Shri Mataji says this!).  And this will happen under any circumstances which has no name, or organization or religion or meditation group.  Spirit even has a name that we gave it, but it still IS whether we name it or not...so you can call people or self realization as Sahaja yoga or sahaja yogies or  what you like, it doesnt mean that is what they are, that is what you think they are by your belief--and beliefs are man made.  

                                      --- On Sat, 2/19/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                                      From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                      Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                      To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                      Received: Saturday, February 19, 2011, 12:02 AM

                                       
                                      ...in that respect, anyone who is self-realised is a Sahaja Yogi; someone in the sate of Yoga, which is something that happens spontaneously through the opening of the Sahasrara.






                                      From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                      To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 22:15:37
                                      Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                       
                                      Someone is only 'in Sahaja Yoga' if they are aware of themselves and remain in that awareness.

                                      Sahaja Yoga is a state of BEING, that's why ot is called pure religion...Religion itself is an process of introspection, something that is undertaken...again people use concepts to suti their awareness of the world and their place in it.

                                      Attempts at organising religion, the aspiration, is also being religious, until that is the spontanaity is lost amidst dogmatism born of people who do not know their SELF and so do not know true freedom.



                                      From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                      To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 21:54:17
                                      Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                       
                                      In other words, Sahaja Yoga has NOTHING to do with beingness and existance..it is for some, a way to get to  THEIR OWN awareness but it is not awareness itself nor beingness itself.  It is still a lable and an illusion, and so the same would be any Guru...a finger pointing at the moon is not the moon.  All ends up in "I AM"  God is also "I AM" and so is each of us..meaning all is the same, us, incarnations,all the same! " I AM" is the basis and that can happen to anyone at any point in time when one is ready by any means, not just Sahaja Yoga.  I have met very mature saintly people who havent even heard of Sahaja Yoga. 

                                      --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...> wrote:

                                      From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                      Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                      To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                      Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 9:46 PM

                                       

                                      Yes...but are all BEINGS IN Sahaja yoga?  does beingness require that one should be a Sahaja Yogi?  Is existance without meaning without Sahaja Yoga? Sahaja Yoga is a teaching or the return to our selves, but we should graduate at some point, just like you do from school.  Become truly your own master and rely on your inner self.
                                      --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                                      From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                      Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                      To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                      Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 8:48 PM

                                       
                                      Sahaja Yoga is a state of being, Shri Mataji has always taught from that perspective...hence the essence of absloute truth being in all things. It's only the mind that interprets things wrongly.



                                      From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                      To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 19:19:59
                                      Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                       
                                       The main thing I have learned is that one is ONE within spirit and and even kundalini is part of creation.  Vibrations I have found are not that much above thinking..that if you keep relying on such, you will be stuck in a web of negative and positive which is duality...it doesn not make you go that much higher than that.  Only connecting to the spirit totally without any distractions of the outside will one find the most powerful energy which is spirit and that is who we are.  It is unfair to claim that ex-members are not true seekers. All are spirit and all will get there! There are no chose ones.  All are chosen and all will arrive sooner or later because God is everyone of us non excluded!!!
                                       I felt stuck after a while of not seeing any improvements on me or my sahaj siblings...all were so distracted trying to organize the group.  I no longer felt I was "evolving" at that slow pace.  Eventually we have to unplug from all group systems and unite as one...spirit doesnt know any name such as sahaja yoga..it is still creation...while spirit observes many things are created.  It is really true that when in a group one goes with the 'flock" and does not really take responsability to get rid of fears etc.   I found that I was afraid to leave sahaja yoga scared that I would no longer feel vibrations...well guess what....I feel an amazing energy which is my spirit and incredible intuition much more powerful than I ever did before.   ALl is a part of evolution and so was SY for me..but that is not the ultimate.  There are no rights and wrongs and no mistakes in life...nothing I regret....but I am not staying in the fears of group conditionings.  I wish all would see how many conditionings you have aquired in SY too...and how much you fear to even hug your parents who are not in sahaja yoga because they have negativity?  isnt this fear?  how can your heart be open with that kind of fear?  if we separate we are not being in spirit...anything that separates is ego!  non-sahaja yogies vs sahaja yogies IS separation...and that fear will limit you.  It is your choice.  I love the entire world and feel all in me and me in all. 

                                      --- On Fri, 1/28/11, talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                      From: talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                      To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                      Received: Friday, January 28, 2011, 7:00 AM

                                       

                                      Hey
                                      still alive and kicking...
                                      check out www.shri-mataji.org and www.sahajayogafacs.info

                                      cheers
                                      s.

                                      --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, "victorysnear" <victorysnear@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > I know it's been a very hard job for all those wonderful ex sahaja yogis to keep this place working. You've given so much to others here! I'll never thank you enough.
                                      > Even though, I think time has come to change this place. Make a Blog out of it. Keep the memory of your past for other victims of this dreadful cult and don't let this place fall into the hands of sy cult. I know each of you has your own busy life, you're so clever and bright, interested in your families, in culture and in fun too. You have moved on, I know. You deserve it. But the work you've done must be kept for others until sy disapears, it won't be a long time, victory's near...
                                      > My regards to TASY group
                                      > Vic
                                      >
                                      > --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, isaac iba <iba22000@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > hi noé, i'm too here in this group to talk about my deeply experiences with
                                      > > sahaja yoga ,i think we are so lucky to be a sahaja yogi ,but a good because
                                      > > many persons whose was abuse with a false or bad sahaja yogi have now a bad
                                      > > experience about sahaja yoga and some of them who wasn't a true seekers feel
                                      > > deception but i want to encourage you to be sincere with the relationship
                                      > > between you and the mother kundalini whose have been awakened by the power of
                                      > > shri mataji...
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > ________________________________
                                      > > De : Noe Fosso Kamga <nfossokamga@>
                                      > > À : talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > Envoyé le : Mer 15 décembre 2010, 15h 06min 45s
                                      > > Objet : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Hi, my name is Fosso Kamga Noe.I have been a sahaja yogi since five years.I want
                                      > > here in this group, to talk about what I feel in sahaja yoga.I want to say what
                                      > > great bliss is the work doing by Shri mataji. and I hope, all of members of the
                                      > > group, will understand and share with me.
                                      > >
                                      >





                                    • Clive Bates
                                      Yes, all concepts are man-made and so limited...thank God (Goodness) for vibrations that lead us to the source of absolute Truth, our SELF., where thereis no
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Feb 19, 2011
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Yes, all concepts are man-made and so limited...thank God (Goodness) for vibrations that lead us to the source of absolute Truth, our SELF., where thereis no need for concepts. God is Love and Truth (ultimate goodness in humanity) that is felt on the autonomous nervous system and acted upon unconciously.

                                        The mind is the source of Maya.

                                        When one knows the true meaning there is no explaination except direct experience.

                                        Peace be with you if that be your intention, and success in all you do.

                                        Jai Shri Mataji (With thanks to Her, my Guru, for showing me I have all I need inside ).



                                        From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                        To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Saturday, 19 February, 2011 7:42:29
                                        Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                         

                                        Do you know what Muslims believe?  That all are born to Islam.  Meaning all are born in submission to God.  This is as true as your statement.  Does it mean we have to separate each other and fear each other for not being in THAT?  Just so you know---  I was as deep as anyone can get in Sahaja Yoga for many many years.  The reason I left is because of other's fear of my divorce--they were scared that SY would get a bad name---that is how fearful people are in there! and uncompassionate as a result.. but my years there I felt vibrations with ease, and I have been a very clear person--- people know me as a very pure soul.  I am not against SY.  I feel that people should evolve past feeling vibrations, past fears of others, past separation of groups and judgement of each other.  You dont see it, but you are conditioned into group belief aside from vibrations.  And vibrations change all the time.  You can feel one person now and tomorrow feel him or her again and it might change---it will change for sure all the time...but many judge them from that moment they check.  There is a lot of fears in the group.  It is important to note them down when you introspect and overcome them.  I am not here to condemn but to really open your eyes if possible.  I said it before---Mahamaya is maya, but your spirit will never delude you---NEVER.  All is God and your experience of reality and others completely reflects from you.  Without you, you wouldnt see others nor this world as you see them...without YOU you would not feel what you feel, nor realize what you realize.  No one can transform you but your self by your own desire and will and readiness (even Shri Mataji says this!).  And this will happen under any circumstances which has no name, or organization or religion or meditation group.  Spirit even has a name that we gave it, but it still IS whether we name it or not...so you can call people or self realization as Sahaja yoga or sahaja yogies or  what you like, it doesnt mean that is what they are, that is what you think they are by your belief--and beliefs are man made.  

                                        --- On Sat, 2/19/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                                        From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                        Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                        To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                        Received: Saturday, February 19, 2011, 12:02 AM

                                         
                                        ...in that respect, anyone who is self-realised is a Sahaja Yogi; someone in the sate of Yoga, which is something that happens spontaneously through the opening of the Sahasrara.






                                        From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                        To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 22:15:37
                                        Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                         
                                        Someone is only 'in Sahaja Yoga' if they are aware of themselves and remain in that awareness.

                                        Sahaja Yoga is a state of BEING, that's why ot is called pure religion...Religion itself is an process of introspection, something that is undertaken...again people use concepts to suti their awareness of the world and their place in it.

                                        Attempts at organising religion, the aspiration, is also being religious, until that is the spontanaity is lost amidst dogmatism born of people who do not know their SELF and so do not know true freedom.



                                        From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                        To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 21:54:17
                                        Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                         
                                        In other words, Sahaja Yoga has NOTHING to do with beingness and existance..it is for some, a way to get to  THEIR OWN awareness but it is not awareness itself nor beingness itself.  It is still a lable and an illusion, and so the same would be any Guru...a finger pointing at the moon is not the moon.  All ends up in "I AM"  God is also "I AM" and so is each of us..meaning all is the same, us, incarnations,all the same! " I AM" is the basis and that can happen to anyone at any point in time when one is ready by any means, not just Sahaja Yoga.  I have met very mature saintly people who havent even heard of Sahaja Yoga. 

                                        --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...> wrote:

                                        From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                        Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                        To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                        Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 9:46 PM

                                         

                                        Yes...but are all BEINGS IN Sahaja yoga?  does beingness require that one should be a Sahaja Yogi?  Is existance without meaning without Sahaja Yoga? Sahaja Yoga is a teaching or the return to our selves, but we should graduate at some point, just like you do from school.  Become truly your own master and rely on your inner self.
                                        --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                                        From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                        Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                        To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                        Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 8:48 PM

                                         
                                        Sahaja Yoga is a state of being, Shri Mataji has always taught from that perspective...hence the essence of absloute truth being in all things. It's only the mind that interprets things wrongly.



                                        From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                        To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 19:19:59
                                        Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                         
                                         The main thing I have learned is that one is ONE within spirit and and even kundalini is part of creation.  Vibrations I have found are not that much above thinking..that if you keep relying on such, you will be stuck in a web of negative and positive which is duality...it doesn not make you go that much higher than that.  Only connecting to the spirit totally without any distractions of the outside will one find the most powerful energy which is spirit and that is who we are.  It is unfair to claim that ex-members are not true seekers. All are spirit and all will get there! There are no chose ones.  All are chosen and all will arrive sooner or later because God is everyone of us non excluded!!!
                                         I felt stuck after a while of not seeing any improvements on me or my sahaj siblings...all were so distracted trying to organize the group.  I no longer felt I was "evolving" at that slow pace.  Eventually we have to unplug from all group systems and unite as one...spirit doesnt know any name such as sahaja yoga..it is still creation...while spirit observes many things are created.  It is really true that when in a group one goes with the 'flock" and does not really take responsability to get rid of fears etc.   I found that I was afraid to leave sahaja yoga scared that I would no longer feel vibrations...well guess what....I feel an amazing energy which is my spirit and incredible intuition much more powerful than I ever did before.   ALl is a part of evolution and so was SY for me..but that is not the ultimate.  There are no rights and wrongs and no mistakes in life...nothing I regret....but I am not staying in the fears of group conditionings.  I wish all would see how many conditionings you have aquired in SY too...and how much you fear to even hug your parents who are not in sahaja yoga because they have negativity?  isnt this fear?  how can your heart be open with that kind of fear?  if we separate we are not being in spirit...anything that separates is ego!  non-sahaja yogies vs sahaja yogies IS separation...and that fear will limit you.  It is your choice.  I love the entire world and feel all in me and me in all. 

                                        --- On Fri, 1/28/11, talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                        From: talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                        To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                        Received: Friday, January 28, 2011, 7:00 AM

                                         

                                        Hey
                                        still alive and kicking...
                                        check out www.shri-mataji.org and www.sahajayogafacs.info

                                        cheers
                                        s.

                                        --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, "victorysnear" <victorysnear@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > I know it's been a very hard job for all those wonderful ex sahaja yogis to keep this place working. You've given so much to others here! I'll never thank you enough.
                                        > Even though, I think time has come to change this place. Make a Blog out of it. Keep the memory of your past for other victims of this dreadful cult and don't let this place fall into the hands of sy cult. I know each of you has your own busy life, you're so clever and bright, interested in your families, in culture and in fun too. You have moved on, I know. You deserve it. But the work you've done must be kept for others until sy disapears, it won't be a long time, victory's near...
                                        > My regards to TASY group
                                        > Vic
                                        >
                                        > --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, isaac iba <iba22000@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > hi noé, i'm too here in this group to talk about my deeply experiences with
                                        > > sahaja yoga ,i think we are so lucky to be a sahaja yogi ,but a good because
                                        > > many persons whose was abuse with a false or bad sahaja yogi have now a bad
                                        > > experience about sahaja yoga and some of them who wasn't a true seekers feel
                                        > > deception but i want to encourage you to be sincere with the relationship
                                        > > between you and the mother kundalini whose have been awakened by the power of
                                        > > shri mataji...
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > ________________________________
                                        > > De : Noe Fosso Kamga <nfossokamga@>
                                        > > À : talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > Envoyé le : Mer 15 décembre 2010, 15h 06min 45s
                                        > > Objet : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Hi, my name is Fosso Kamga Noe.I have been a sahaja yogi since five years.I want
                                        > > here in this group, to talk about what I feel in sahaja yoga.I want to say what
                                        > > great bliss is the work doing by Shri mataji. and I hope, all of members of the
                                        > > group, will understand and share with me.
                                        > >
                                        >





                                      • Yogini Kumar
                                        HI Clive,   Yes, ultimately we are talking the same thing.  There are differences.  I know Shri Mataji was my spiritual teacher for many years, but I no
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Feb 19, 2011
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          HI Clive,
                                           
                                          Yes, ultimately we are talking the same thing.  There are differences.  I know Shri Mataji was my spiritual teacher for many years, but I no longer worship her nor have the understanding of it. Everything melts in ONENESS and to worship is to separate, and to put one above or below another person is still illusive.  What do incarnations represent other than our higher self?  The Son of man you can call Christ but it is all of us as ONE.   During these past two years, my transformation has been really incredible to such an experience where I pray and I feel like my own spirit is praying to itself..there is no separation anymore.  It doesn't seem as difficult as it was but it does take a lot.
                                          You have not opened any wounds because I am dealing with my emotions and thoughts as they come.  There is nothing I hide from myself anymore.  Being aware is precisely being in touch with everything that is happening within.  If an emotion comes up, I will treat it like I would a small child--with love and understanding and then release it.  
                                          I dont care what Sahaja Yogies think of me, specially because if they think negative, it is from their own perception which has much to do with them and not me.  I no longer care to return to the group because I dont need to.  My intuitive self is incredible and each one of us has it.  Intuition goes beyond vibrations and if you are in touch with it, it will answer all your questions.  There are many many loving people in the world and the entire world is our family.
                                          You asked about bad or evil.  Dont fixate yourself on it.  The only way to transform this world is by fully being YOU /LOVE.  You will begin to see everyone as complete, even the people who havent felt complete.  By feeling their complete self, they will begin to feel their own and transform.  The body gets sick because we identify with it, and with the illness...whatever we identify with is our reality.  If  you identify with "the evil of the world" then you are not helping to disolve it.  I believe in what the Toltecs said that the big maya is actually the illusion that there is good against evil---this is so not true---it is just truth and lies and evil is not evil..it is lies...when we overcome our own lies there is only truth.  We cannot change anyone else..but when we are fully LOVE then we spread it everywhere--  spread it around the world just by sending it and you dont even need to give a bhandhan, just send it out.    I had to face my reactions to false gurus.  I have friends who read Osho,and other gurus and it is fine with me, whoever is ready is getting realized, not by what they read but by their own spirit.  I love all my friends and I really respect whatever they resonate with.  Whatever we react to we create an obstacle to TRUTH..so allow things to be as they are and fully accept it unless you can change it.  But trust me that it is easier to change ourselves than it is to change any one else.
                                          I am still experimenting and undoing--- why do I feel vibrations or energy when I dont see Shri Mataji as more than a guru?  when I am no longer in SY?  are these conditioned feelings?  I will experiment ..because there is something aware of those feelings..and those feelings are not me but are felt...the total background when I can no longer identify with something other than just BEING in total silent presence...that is Ultimate.
                                          Love and light
                                           
                                           

                                          --- On Sat, 2/19/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                                          From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                          Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                          To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                          Received: Saturday, February 19, 2011, 6:29 PM

                                           
                                          Have you realised yet that we are both saying the same thing, just using different words, in a different way ? (:-))

                                          Sorry if I have opened old wounds for you.

                                          Sahaja Yoga , as they are written here, is just two words...

                                          What it means is a different story.

                                          The meaning of that saying amongst Muslims comes from the fact that we are all born innocent, helpless, at the mercy of things beyond our control, in effect, forcefully surrendered...

                                          And yet in that state, so long as we are well taken care of  we are completely free, more than we ever will be in ourlives, because we have no thought or expectatin of anything, all is a wonderful joygiving mystery, so long as we are taken care of...

                                          Kundalini is our Mother inside us, this you know .... so why worry about what other's think ?! You do so because you don't want to offend anyone...but sometimes you have to offend in order to show the truth isn't it...!!!

                                          I too was scorned by people for leaving my angry caught up Sahaj marriage...so, they would never understand until it happens to them...and I pray it never does because it's not nice...

                                          I eneded up marrying someone wjom I chose for myself, and still it was horrendous, for a long time, and guess what,  I realised we were both to blame,and if I changed myself things would get better...now we are like two peas in pod enjoying, especially after knowing how foolish we had both been before...people only fight when they scared....one who knows their self is automatically never scared.

                                          So now I am able to be one with my SELF, and am no longer afraid, and can go anywhere with confidence, and Love in my heart.

                                          Jai Shri Mataji

                                          P.S. EVERYTHING is 'MahaMaya' , it simply means 'Great Mystery'...even my cat is 'Maha Maya'

                                          As Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi Shrivastava herself once said...'Even this stone is God, the thing is it can't REALISE it'...it's inconcievable, but felt as Love and Truth by human beings who's desire is pure and peaceful.

                                          Life is what one makes it, within the boundaries of nature.

                                          Sorry for your troubles...one can only know it if one has walked in those shoes...I wouyld not wish that anyone should walk in mine.

                                          with Love, always.



                                          From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                          To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Saturday, 19 February, 2011 7:42:29
                                          Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                           
                                          Do you know what Muslims believe?  That all are born to Islam.  Meaning all are born in submission to God.  This is as true as your statement.  Does it mean we have to separate each other and fear each other for not being in THAT?  Just so you know---  I was as deep as anyone can get in Sahaja Yoga for many many years.  The reason I left is because of other's fear of my divorce--they were scared that SY would get a bad name---that is how fearful people are in there! and uncompassionate as a result.. but my years there I felt vibrations with ease, and I have been a very clear person--- people know me as a very pure soul.  I am not against SY.  I feel that people should evolve past feeling vibrations, past fears of others, past separation of groups and judgement of each other.  You dont see it, but you are conditioned into group belief aside from vibrations.  And vibrations change all the time.  You can feel one person now and tomorrow feel him or her again and it might change---it will change for sure all the time...but many judge them from that moment they check.  There is a lot of fears in the group.  It is important to note them down when you introspect and overcome them.  I am not here to condemn but to really open your eyes if possible.  I said it before---Mahamaya is maya, but your spirit will never delude you---NEVER.  All is God and your experience of reality and others completely reflects from you.  Without you, you wouldnt see others nor this world as you see them...without YOU you would not feel what you feel, nor realize what you realize.  No one can transform you but your self by your own desire and will and readiness (even Shri Mataji says this!).  And this will happen under any circumstances which has no name, or organization or religion or meditation group.  Spirit even has a name that we gave it, but it still IS whether we name it or not...so you can call people or self realization as Sahaja yoga or sahaja yogies or  what you like, it doesnt mean that is what they are, that is what you think they are by your belief--and beliefs are man made.  

                                          --- On Sat, 2/19/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                                          From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                          Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                          To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                          Received: Saturday, February 19, 2011, 12:02 AM

                                           
                                          ...in that respect, anyone who is self-realised is a Sahaja Yogi; someone in the sate of Yoga, which is something that happens spontaneously through the opening of the Sahasrara.






                                          From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                          To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 22:15:37
                                          Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                           
                                          Someone is only 'in Sahaja Yoga' if they are aware of themselves and remain in that awareness.

                                          Sahaja Yoga is a state of BEING, that's why ot is called pure religion...Religion itself is an process of introspection, something that is undertaken...again people use concepts to suti their awareness of the world and their place in it.

                                          Attempts at organising religion, the aspiration, is also being religious, until that is the spontanaity is lost amidst dogmatism born of people who do not know their SELF and so do not know true freedom.



                                          From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                          To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 21:54:17
                                          Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                           
                                          In other words, Sahaja Yoga has NOTHING to do with beingness and existance..it is for some, a way to get to  THEIR OWN awareness but it is not awareness itself nor beingness itself.  It is still a lable and an illusion, and so the same would be any Guru...a finger pointing at the moon is not the moon.  All ends up in "I AM"  God is also "I AM" and so is each of us..meaning all is the same, us, incarnations,all the same! " I AM" is the basis and that can happen to anyone at any point in time when one is ready by any means, not just Sahaja Yoga.  I have met very mature saintly people who havent even heard of Sahaja Yoga. 

                                          --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...> wrote:

                                          From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                          Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                          To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                          Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 9:46 PM

                                           

                                          Yes...but are all BEINGS IN Sahaja yoga?  does beingness require that one should be a Sahaja Yogi?  Is existance without meaning without Sahaja Yoga? Sahaja Yoga is a teaching or the return to our selves, but we should graduate at some point, just like you do from school.  Become truly your own master and rely on your inner self.
                                          --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                                          From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                          Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                          To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                          Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 8:48 PM

                                           
                                          Sahaja Yoga is a state of being, Shri Mataji has always taught from that perspective...hence the essence of absloute truth being in all things. It's only the mind that interprets things wrongly.



                                          From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                          To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 19:19:59
                                          Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                           
                                           The main thing I have learned is that one is ONE within spirit and and even kundalini is part of creation.  Vibrations I have found are not that much above thinking..that if you keep relying on such, you will be stuck in a web of negative and positive which is duality...it doesn not make you go that much higher than that.  Only connecting to the spirit totally without any distractions of the outside will one find the most powerful energy which is spirit and that is who we are.  It is unfair to claim that ex-members are not true seekers. All are spirit and all will get there! There are no chose ones.  All are chosen and all will arrive sooner or later because God is everyone of us non excluded!!!
                                           I felt stuck after a while of not seeing any improvements on me or my sahaj siblings...all were so distracted trying to organize the group.  I no longer felt I was "evolving" at that slow pace.  Eventually we have to unplug from all group systems and unite as one...spirit doesnt know any name such as sahaja yoga..it is still creation...while spirit observes many things are created.  It is really true that when in a group one goes with the 'flock" and does not really take responsability to get rid of fears etc.   I found that I was afraid to leave sahaja yoga scared that I would no longer feel vibrations...well guess what....I feel an amazing energy which is my spirit and incredible intuition much more powerful than I ever did before.   ALl is a part of evolution and so was SY for me..but that is not the ultimate.  There are no rights and wrongs and no mistakes in life...nothing I regret....but I am not staying in the fears of group conditionings.  I wish all would see how many conditionings you have aquired in SY too...and how much you fear to even hug your parents who are not in sahaja yoga because they have negativity?  isnt this fear?  how can your heart be open with that kind of fear?  if we separate we are not being in spirit...anything that separates is ego!  non-sahaja yogies vs sahaja yogies IS separation...and that fear will limit you.  It is your choice.  I love the entire world and feel all in me and me in all. 

                                          --- On Fri, 1/28/11, talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                          From: talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                          To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                          Received: Friday, January 28, 2011, 7:00 AM

                                           

                                          Hey
                                          still alive and kicking...
                                          check out www.shri-mataji.org and www.sahajayogafacs.info

                                          cheers
                                          s.

                                          --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, "victorysnear" <victorysnear@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > I know it's been a very hard job for all those wonderful ex sahaja yogis to keep this place working. You've given so much to others here! I'll never thank you enough.
                                          > Even though, I think time has come to change this place. Make a Blog out of it. Keep the memory of your past for other victims of this dreadful cult and don't let this place fall into the hands of sy cult. I know each of you has your own busy life, you're so clever and bright, interested in your families, in culture and in fun too. You have moved on, I know. You deserve it. But the work you've done must be kept for others until sy disapears, it won't be a long time, victory's near...
                                          > My regards to TASY group
                                          > Vic
                                          >
                                          > --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, isaac iba <iba22000@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > hi noé, i'm too here in this group to talk about my deeply experiences with
                                          > > sahaja yoga ,i think we are so lucky to be a sahaja yogi ,but a good because
                                          > > many persons whose was abuse with a false or bad sahaja yogi have now a bad
                                          > > experience about sahaja yoga and some of them who wasn't a true seekers feel
                                          > > deception but i want to encourage you to be sincere with the relationship
                                          > > between you and the mother kundalini whose have been awakened by the power of
                                          > > shri mataji...
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > ________________________________
                                          > > De : Noe Fosso Kamga <nfossokamga@>
                                          > > À : talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > Envoyé le : Mer 15 décembre 2010, 15h 06min 45s
                                          > > Objet : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > Hi, my name is Fosso Kamga Noe.I have been a sahaja yogi since five years.I want
                                          > > here in this group, to talk about what I feel in sahaja yoga.I want to say what
                                          > > great bliss is the work doing by Shri mataji. and I hope, all of members of the
                                          > > group, will understand and share with me.
                                          > >
                                          >






                                        • Clive Bates
                                          Ah, that s so great.... The vibrations are only felt because of the physical part of us, it shows that the central nervous system is being sufficiently
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Feb 19, 2011
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Ah, that's so great....

                                            The vibrations are only felt because of the physical part of us, it shows that the central nervous system is being sufficiently nourished to ensure a healthy  body, mind, and emotions. When the Sahasrara opens fully there is no mental identity with the body it appears as distinctly seperate from the conciousness and their is no sensation of the nerves or anything felt, all the physical operates autonomously and unconciously....awareness is fully in the heart at that point and one is only the witness...no attachment, no 'other', no 'I', and no reaction, no feeling of want of loss, just pure unconditional awareness of being, relief, completeness, without those concepts coming into the attention, or any geting all emotional about it..it's a precious state of being...keep on undoing those bindings on the heart, with Love...I believe that that is what everyone, conciously and unconciously, are really looking for in Life...unfortunately there are many who fall into despair when they should be forgiving.

                                            I will keep on fighting those 'demons' so that others can get there too and peace can come on earth...

                                            Whenever I have worshipped 'Shri Mataji' it has always been with the complete understanding that the person sitting infront of me is merely trying to represent to us the autonomy of the forces of nature, by characterising them in such a manner that the autonmous nervous system gets a chance to do it's thing, devoid of the demands upon the nervous system caused by chaotic thinking and emotions...it's a technique that works, that's all....

                                            More blessed still are those who no longer need techniques. This has always been what that lady who knew herself and the world well enough to embark on a project to make it easier for people to realise their SELF  has always wanted.

                                            I mentioned the negativity and suffering in the world because it is happening and it is not necessary if there is an easier way to satisfy and negate our animalisitc behaviour...evolution is at a point where people have to conciously make the right choices if the human species is not going to succumb to self-destruction....so what I meant was, all the negativity in the group is like a training ground to make us resilient and able to prove to people that a realised soul can go through anything, thereby giving encouragement to those who find themselves in the terrible situations around the world, that, Yes, it is best to listen to that 'still and small voice' within whenit cries out for justice, but to achieve that justice and equality of recognition we first need to be something ourselves.

                                            All have to start from somewhere and grow, so techniques and concepts are useful to have around for those who need them.

                                            For one who enjoys words like I do the extract below was a great for clarifying that relationship we feel in being identified exclusively with our SELF while symultaneously acting out our daily lives in innocence.

                                            BODHA ATMAN (...where "I am" is deeply established in the soul as Love.

                                            CHAPTER XXXII. - Mahâpurânam S'rî Mad Devî Bhâgavatam by Maharsi Veda Vyâsa

                                             

                                            1-50. The Devî said:--"Hear, ye Immortals! My words with attention, that I am now going to speak to you, hearing which will enable the Jîvas to realise My Essence. Before the creation, I, only I, existed; nothing else was existent then. My Real Self is known by the names Chit, Sambit (Intelligence), Para Brahma and others. My Âtman is beyond mind, beyond thought, beyond any name or mark, without any parallel, and beyond birth, death or any other change or transformation. My Self has one inherent power called Mâyâ. This Mâyâ is not existent, nor non-existent, nor can it be called both. This unspeakable substance Mâyâ always exists (till the final emancipation or Moksha).

                                             

                                            Mâyâ can be destroyed by Brahmna Jñâna; so it can not be called existent, again if Mâyâ does not exist, the practical world catinot exist. So it cannot be called non-existent. Of course it cannot be called both, for it would involve contradictions. This Mâyâ (without beginning but with end at the time of Moksha) naturally arises as heat comes out of fire, as the rays come out of the Sun and as the cooling rays come out of the Moon. Just as all the Karmas of the Jîvas dissolve in deep sleep (S'usupti), so at the time of Pralaya or the General Dissolution, the Karmas of the Jîvas, the Jîvas and Time all become merged, in one uniform mass in this great Mâyâ. United with My S'aktî, I am the Cause of this world; this S'aktî has this defect that it has the power of hiding Me, its Originator.

                                             

                                            I am Nirguna. And when I am united with my S'aktî, Mâyâ, 1 become Saguns, the Great Cause of this world. This Mâyâ is divided into two, Vidyâ and Avidyâ. Avidyâ Mâyâ hides Me; whereas Vidyâ Mâyâ does not. Avidyâ creates whereas Vidyâ Mâyâ liberates.

                                             

                                            Mâyâ united with Chaitanya (Intelligence), i. e., Chidâbhâsa is the efficient cause of this Universe; whereas Mâyâ reduced to and united with five original elements is the material Cause of the Universe. Some call this Mâyâ tapas; some call Her inert, material; some call Her knowledge; some call Her Mâyâ, Pradhâna, Prakriti, Ajâ (unborn) and sonic others call Her S'aktî. The S'aiva authors call Her Vimars'a and the other Vedântists call Her Avidyâ; in short, this Mâyâ is in the heads of all the Pundits. This Mâyâ is called various in the Nigamas.

                                            p. 738

                                             

                                            That which is seen is inert; for this reason Mâyâ is Jada (inert) and as the knowledge it conveys is destroyed, it is false. Chaitanya (Intelligence) is not seen; if It were seen, it would have been Jada. Chaitanya is self-luminous; not illumined by any other source. Were It so, Its Enlightener would have to be illumined by some other. thing and so the fallacy of Anavasthâ creeps in (an endless series of causes and effects). Again one thing cannot be the actor and the thing, acted upon (being contrary to each other); so Chaitanya cannot be illumined by itself. So It is Self-luminous; and it illumines Sun, Moon, etc., as a lamp is self-luminous and illumines other objects. So, O Mountain! This My Intelligence is established as eternal and everlasting. The waking, dreaming and deep sleep states do not remain constant but the sense of "I" remains the same, whether in waking, dreaming or deep sleep state; its anomaly is never felt. (The Bauddhas say that) The sense of ntelligence, Jñâna, is also not, felt; there in the absence of it; so what is existent is also temporarily existent. But (it can then be argued that) then the Witness by which that absence is sensed, that Intelligence, in the shape of the Witness, is eternal. So the Pundits of all the reasonable S'âstras declare that Samvit (Intelligence) is Eternal and it is Blissful the fountain of all love. Never the Jîvas or embodied souls feel "I am not"; but "I am" this feeling is deeply established in the soul as Love.

                                             

                                            Thus it is clearly evident that I am quite Separate from anything else which are all false. Also I am one continuous (no interval or separation existing within Me). Again Jñâna is not the Dharma (the natural quality) of Âtman but it is of the very nature of Âtman. If Jñâna ware the Dharma of Âtman, then Jñâna would have been material; so Jñâna is immaterial. If (for argument's sake) Jñâna be denominated as material, that cannot be. For Jñâna is of the nature of Intelligence and Âtman is of the the nature of Intelligence. Intelligence has not the attribute of being Dharma. Here the thing Chit is not different from its quality (Chit). So Âtman is always of the nature of Jñâna and happiness; Its nature is Truth; It is always Full, unattached and void of duality. This Âtman again, united with Mâyâ, composed of desires and Karmas, wants to create, due to the want of discrimination, the twenty-four tattvas, according to the previous Samskâras (tendencies), time and Karma. O Mountain! The re-awakening after Pralaya Susupti is not done with Buddhi (for then Buddhi is not at all manifested). So this creation is said to be effected without any Buddhi (proper intelligence). O Chief of the Immovables! The Tattva (Reality) that I have spoken to you is most excellent and it is my Extraordinary Form merely. In the Vedas it is known as Avyâkrita (unmodified), Avyakta (unmanifested)

                                            p. 709

                                             

                                            Mâyâ S'abala (divided into various parts) and so forth. In all tlkc S'âstras, it is stated to be the Cause of all causes, the Primeval Tattva and Sachchidlinanda Vigraba. Where all the Karmas are solidified and where Ichchâ S'aktî, (will), Jñâna S'aktî (intelligence) and Kriyâ S'aktî (action) all are melted in one, that is called the Mantra Hrîm, that is the first Tattva. From this comes out Âkâsa, having the property of sound, thence Vâyu (air) with "touch" property; then fire with form, then water having "Rasa" property; and lastly the earth having the quality "smell." The Pundits say that the "sound" is the only quality of Âkâsa; air has two qualities viz., sound and touch, fire has three qualities sound, touch, form; water has four qualities sound, touch, form, taste; and the earth has five qualities sound, touch, form, taste and smell, Out of these five original elements, the allpervading, Sûtra (string or thread) arose. This Sûtrâtman (soul) is called the "Linga Deha," comprising within itself all the Prânas; this is the subtle body of the Paramâtman. And what is said in the previous lines as Avyakta or Unmainfested and in which the Seed of the World is involved and whence the Linga Deha has sprung, that is called the Causal body (Kârana body) of the Paramâtman. The five original elements (Apañchikrita called the five Tan Mâtrâs) being created, next by the Pañchîkarana process, the gross elements are created. The process is now being stated:--O Girijâ! Each of the five original elements is divided into two parts; one part of each of which is subdivided into four parts. This fourth part of each is united with the half of four other elements different from it and thus each gross element is formed. By these five gross elements, the Cosmic (Virât) body is formed and this is called the Gross Body of the God. Jñânendriyas (the organs of knowledge) arise from Sattva Gunas of each of these five elements. Again the Sattva Gunas of each of the Jñânendriyas united become the Antah Karanâni. This Antah karana is of four kinds, according as its functions vary. When it is engaged in forming Sankalpas, resolves, and Vikalpas (doubts) it is called "mind." When it is free from doubts and when it arrives at the decisive conclusion, it is called "Chitta"; and when it rests simply on itself in the shape of the feeling "I", it is called Ahamkâra. From the Rajo Guna of each of the five elements arises Vâk (speech), Pâni (hands) Pâda (feet), Pâyu (Anus) and Upastha (organs of generation). Again their Rajo parts united give rise to the five Prânas (Prâna, Apâna, Samâna, Udâna and Vyâna) the Prâna Vayu resides in the heart; Apâna Vayu in the Arms; Samâna Vayu resides in the Navel; Udâna Vayu rasides in the Throat; and the Vyâna Vâyu resides, pervading all over the body. My subtle body (Linga Deha) arises from the union of the five

                                            p. 710

                                             

                                            Jñânendriyas, the five Karmendriyas (organs of action), the five Pranas and the mind and Buddhi, these seventeen elements. And the Prakriti that resides there is divided into two parts; one is pure (Suddha Satbva) Mâyâ and the other is the impure Mâyâ or Avidyâ united with the Gunas. By Mâyâ is meant She, who, without concealing Her refugees, protects them. When the Supreme Self is reflected on this S'uddha Sattva, Mâyâ, He is called Îs'vara. This Saddha Mâyâ does not conceal Brahma, its receptacle; therefore She knows the All-pervading Brahma and She is omniscient, omnipotent, the Lady of all and confors favours and blessings on all. When the Supreme Self is reflected on the Impure Mâyâ or Avidyâ, He is called Jîva. This Avidyâ conceals Brahma, Whose nature is Happiness; therefore this Jîva is the source of all miseries. Both Îs'vara and Jîva have, by the influence of Vidyâ and Avidyâ three bodies and three names. When the Jîva lives in his causal body, he is named Prâjna; when he lives in subtle body he is known as Taijasa; while he has the gross body, he is called Vis'va. So when Îs'vara is in His causal body, he is denominated Îs'a; when He is in His subtle body, he is known as Sûtra; and when He is in His groqs body, He is known as Virât.

                                             

                                            The Jîva glories in having three (as above-mentioned) kinds of differentiated bodies and Îs'vara glories in having three (as above-mentioned) kinds of cosmic bodies. Thus Îs'vara is the Lord of all and though He feels Himself always happy and satisfied, yet to favour the Jîvas and to give them liberation (Moksa) He has created various sorts of worldly things for their Bhogas (enjoyments). This Îs'vara creates all the Universe, impelled by My Brahma S'aktî. I am of the nature of Brahma; and Îs'vara in conceived in Me as a snake is imagined in a rope. Therefore Îs'vara has to remain dependent on My S'akti.

                                             

                                            Here ends the Thirty-second Chapter of the Seventh Book on Self-realization,  in the Mahâpurnam S'rî Mad Devî Bhâgavatam, of 18,000 verses, by Maharsi Veda Vyâsa.

                                             



                                            From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                            To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Saturday, 19 February, 2011 23:01:58
                                            Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                             

                                            HI Clive,
                                             
                                            Yes, ultimately we are talking the same thing.  There are differences.  I know Shri Mataji was my spiritual teacher for many years, but I no longer worship her nor have the understanding of it. Everything melts in ONENESS and to worship is to separate, and to put one above or below another person is still illusive.  What do incarnations represent other than our higher self?  The Son of man you can call Christ but it is all of us as ONE.   During these past two years, my transformation has been really incredible to such an experience where I pray and I feel like my own spirit is praying to itself..there is no separation anymore.  It doesn't seem as difficult as it was but it does take a lot.
                                            You have not opened any wounds because I am dealing with my emotions and thoughts as they come.  There is nothing I hide from myself anymore.  Being aware is precisely being in touch with everything that is happening within.  If an emotion comes up, I will treat it like I would a small child--with love and understanding and then release it.  
                                            I dont care what Sahaja Yogies think of me, specially because if they think negative, it is from their own perception which has much to do with them and not me.  I no longer care to return to the group because I dont need to.  My intuitive self is incredible and each one of us has it.  Intuition goes beyond vibrations and if you are in touch with it, it will answer all your questions.  There are many many loving people in the world and the entire world is our family.
                                            You asked about bad or evil.  Dont fixate yourself on it.  The only way to transform this world is by fully being YOU /LOVE.  You will begin to see everyone as complete, even the people who havent felt complete.  By feeling their complete self, they will begin to feel their own and transform.  The body gets sick because we identify with it, and with the illness...whatever we identify with is our reality.  If  you identify with "the evil of the world" then you are not helping to disolve it.  I believe in what the Toltecs said that the big maya is actually the illusion that there is good against evil---this is so not true---it is just truth and lies and evil is not evil..it is lies...when we overcome our own lies there is only truth.  We cannot change anyone else..but when we are fully LOVE then we spread it everywhere--  spread it around the world just by sending it and you dont even need to give a bhandhan, just send it out.    I had to face my reactions to false gurus.  I have friends who read Osho,and other gurus and it is fine with me, whoever is ready is getting realized, not by what they read but by their own spirit.  I love all my friends and I really respect whatever they resonate with.  Whatever we react to we create an obstacle to TRUTH..so allow things to be as they are and fully accept it unless you can change it.  But trust me that it is easier to change ourselves than it is to change any one else.
                                            I am still experimenting and undoing--- why do I feel vibrations or energy when I dont see Shri Mataji as more than a guru?  when I am no longer in SY?  are these conditioned feelings?  I will experiment ..because there is something aware of those feelings..and those feelings are not me but are felt...the total background when I can no longer identify with something other than just BEING in total silent presence...that is Ultimate.
                                            Love and light
                                             
                                             

                                            --- On Sat, 2/19/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                                            From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                            Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                            To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                            Received: Saturday, February 19, 2011, 6:29 PM

                                             
                                            Have you realised yet that we are both saying the same thing, just using different words, in a different way ? (:-))

                                            Sorry if I have opened old wounds for you.

                                            Sahaja Yoga , as they are written here, is just two words...

                                            What it means is a different story.

                                            The meaning of that saying amongst Muslims comes from the fact that we are all born innocent, helpless, at the mercy of things beyond our control, in effect, forcefully surrendered...

                                            And yet in that state, so long as we are well taken care of  we are completely free, more than we ever will be in ourlives, because we have no thought or expectatin of anything, all is a wonderful joygiving mystery, so long as we are taken care of...

                                            Kundalini is our Mother inside us, this you know .... so why worry about what other's think ?! You do so because you don't want to offend anyone...but sometimes you have to offend in order to show the truth isn't it...!!!

                                            I too was scorned by people for leaving my angry caught up Sahaj marriage...so, they would never understand until it happens to them...and I pray it never does because it's not nice...

                                            I eneded up marrying someone wjom I chose for myself, and still it was horrendous, for a long time, and guess what,  I realised we were both to blame,and if I changed myself things would get better...now we are like two peas in pod enjoying, especially after knowing how foolish we had both been before...people only fight when they scared....one who knows their self is automatically never scared.

                                            So now I am able to be one with my SELF, and am no longer afraid, and can go anywhere with confidence, and Love in my heart.

                                            Jai Shri Mataji

                                            P.S. EVERYTHING is 'MahaMaya' , it simply means 'Great Mystery'...even my cat is 'Maha Maya'

                                            As Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi Shrivastava herself once said...'Even this stone is God, the thing is it can't REALISE it'...it's inconcievable, but felt as Love and Truth by human beings who's desire is pure and peaceful.

                                            Life is what one makes it, within the boundaries of nature.

                                            Sorry for your troubles...one can only know it if one has walked in those shoes...I wouyld not wish that anyone should walk in mine.

                                            with Love, always.



                                            From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                            To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Saturday, 19 February, 2011 7:42:29
                                            Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                             
                                            Do you know what Muslims believe?  That all are born to Islam.  Meaning all are born in submission to God.  This is as true as your statement.  Does it mean we have to separate each other and fear each other for not being in THAT?  Just so you know---  I was as deep as anyone can get in Sahaja Yoga for many many years.  The reason I left is because of other's fear of my divorce--they were scared that SY would get a bad name---that is how fearful people are in there! and uncompassionate as a result.. but my years there I felt vibrations with ease, and I have been a very clear person--- people know me as a very pure soul.  I am not against SY.  I feel that people should evolve past feeling vibrations, past fears of others, past separation of groups and judgement of each other.  You dont see it, but you are conditioned into group belief aside from vibrations.  And vibrations change all the time.  You can feel one person now and tomorrow feel him or her again and it might change---it will change for sure all the time...but many judge them from that moment they check.  There is a lot of fears in the group.  It is important to note them down when you introspect and overcome them.  I am not here to condemn but to really open your eyes if possible.  I said it before---Mahamaya is maya, but your spirit will never delude you---NEVER.  All is God and your experience of reality and others completely reflects from you.  Without you, you wouldnt see others nor this world as you see them...without YOU you would not feel what you feel, nor realize what you realize.  No one can transform you but your self by your own desire and will and readiness (even Shri Mataji says this!).  And this will happen under any circumstances which has no name, or organization or religion or meditation group.  Spirit even has a name that we gave it, but it still IS whether we name it or not...so you can call people or self realization as Sahaja yoga or sahaja yogies or  what you like, it doesnt mean that is what they are, that is what you think they are by your belief--and beliefs are man made.  

                                            --- On Sat, 2/19/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                                            From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                            Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                            To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                            Received: Saturday, February 19, 2011, 12:02 AM

                                             
                                            ...in that respect, anyone who is self-realised is a Sahaja Yogi; someone in the sate of Yoga, which is something that happens spontaneously through the opening of the Sahasrara.






                                            From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                            To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 22:15:37
                                            Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                             
                                            Someone is only 'in Sahaja Yoga' if they are aware of themselves and remain in that awareness.

                                            Sahaja Yoga is a state of BEING, that's why ot is called pure religion...Religion itself is an process of introspection, something that is undertaken...again people use concepts to suti their awareness of the world and their place in it.

                                            Attempts at organising religion, the aspiration, is also being religious, until that is the spontanaity is lost amidst dogmatism born of people who do not know their SELF and so do not know true freedom.



                                            From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                            To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 21:54:17
                                            Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                             
                                            In other words, Sahaja Yoga has NOTHING to do with beingness and existance..it is for some, a way to get to  THEIR OWN awareness but it is not awareness itself nor beingness itself.  It is still a lable and an illusion, and so the same would be any Guru...a finger pointing at the moon is not the moon.  All ends up in "I AM"  God is also "I AM" and so is each of us..meaning all is the same, us, incarnations,all the same! " I AM" is the basis and that can happen to anyone at any point in time when one is ready by any means, not just Sahaja Yoga.  I have met very mature saintly people who havent even heard of Sahaja Yoga. 

                                            --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...> wrote:

                                            From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                            Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                            To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                            Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 9:46 PM

                                             

                                            Yes...but are all BEINGS IN Sahaja yoga?  does beingness require that one should be a Sahaja Yogi?  Is existance without meaning without Sahaja Yoga? Sahaja Yoga is a teaching or the return to our selves, but we should graduate at some point, just like you do from school.  Become truly your own master and rely on your inner self.
                                            --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                                            From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                            Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                            To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                            Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 8:48 PM

                                             
                                            Sahaja Yoga is a state of being, Shri Mataji has always taught from that perspective...hence the essence of absloute truth being in all things. It's only the mind that interprets things wrongly.



                                            From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                            To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 19:19:59
                                            Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                             
                                             The main thing I have learned is that one is ONE within spirit and and even kundalini is part of creation.  Vibrations I have found are not that much above thinking..that if you keep relying on such, you will be stuck in a web of negative and positive which is duality...it doesn not make you go that much higher than that.  Only connecting to the spirit totally without any distractions of the outside will one find the most powerful energy which is spirit and that is who we are.  It is unfair to claim that ex-members are not true seekers. All are spirit and all will get there! There are no chose ones.  All are chosen and all will arrive sooner or later because God is everyone of us non excluded!!!
                                             I felt stuck after a while of not seeing any improvements on me or my sahaj siblings...all were so distracted trying to organize the group.  I no longer felt I was "evolving" at that slow pace.  Eventually we have to unplug from all group systems and unite as one...spirit doesnt know any name such as sahaja yoga..it is still creation...while spirit observes many things are created.  It is really true that when in a group one goes with the 'flock" and does not really take responsability to get rid of fears etc.   I found that I was afraid to leave sahaja yoga scared that I would no longer feel vibrations...well guess what....I feel an amazing energy which is my spirit and incredible intuition much more powerful than I ever did before.   ALl is a part of evolution and so was SY for me..but that is not the ultimate.  There are no rights and wrongs and no mistakes in life...nothing I regret....but I am not staying in the fears of group conditionings.  I wish all would see how many conditionings you have aquired in SY too...and how much you fear to even hug your parents who are not in sahaja yoga because they have negativity?  isnt this fear?  how can your heart be open with that kind of fear?  if we separate we are not being in spirit...anything that separates is ego!  non-sahaja yogies vs sahaja yogies IS separation...and that fear will limit you.  It is your choice.  I love the entire world and feel all in me and me in all. 

                                            --- On Fri, 1/28/11, talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                            From: talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com>
                                            Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                            To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                            Received: Friday, January 28, 2011, 7:00 AM

                                             

                                            Hey
                                            still alive and kicking...
                                            check out www.shri-mataji.org and www.sahajayogafacs.info

                                            cheers
                                            s.

                                            --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, "victorysnear" <victorysnear@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > I know it's been a very hard job for all those wonderful ex sahaja yogis to keep this place working. You've given so much to others here! I'll never thank you enough.
                                            > Even though, I think time has come to change this place. Make a Blog out of it. Keep the memory of your past for other victims of this dreadful cult and don't let this place fall into the hands of sy cult. I know each of you has your own busy life, you're so clever and bright, interested in your families, in culture and in fun too. You have moved on, I know. You deserve it. But the work you've done must be kept for others until sy disapears, it won't be a long time, victory's near...
                                            > My regards to TASY group
                                            > Vic
                                            >
                                            > --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, isaac iba <iba22000@> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > hi noé, i'm too here in this group to talk about my deeply experiences with
                                            > > sahaja yoga ,i think we are so lucky to be a sahaja yogi ,but a good because
                                            > > many persons whose was abuse with a false or bad sahaja yogi have now a bad
                                            > > experience about sahaja yoga and some of them who wasn't a true seekers feel
                                            > > deception but i want to encourage you to be sincere with the relationship
                                            > > between you and the mother kundalini whose have been awakened by the power of
                                            > > shri mataji...
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > ________________________________
                                            > > De : Noe Fosso Kamga <nfossokamga@>
                                            > > À : talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > Envoyé le : Mer 15 décembre 2010, 15h 06min 45s
                                            > > Objet : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > Hi, my name is Fosso Kamga Noe.I have been a sahaja yogi since five years.I want
                                            > > here in this group, to talk about what I feel in sahaja yoga.I want to say what
                                            > > great bliss is the work doing by Shri mataji. and I hope, all of members of the
                                            > > group, will understand and share with me.
                                            > >
                                            >






                                          • Clive Bates
                                            Actually it s wrong of me to say that the attention goes fully into the heart, it is more like that the attention, one s awareness is from Sahasrara, and it
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Feb 19, 2011
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Actually it's wrong of me to say that the attention goes fully into the heart, it is more like that the attention, one's awareness is from Sahasrara, and it one's view on everything actually feels like it is coming from there, complete peaceful detachment and awareness all at once, wherein one still goes about dong what is necessary to ensure the external and internal conditions are right for the sustainance of that state of  knowing one's self as one with everything, through direct experience and not thought.

                                              I suppose this is why Shri Mataji said that the qulities of the heart chakra constitutes the centre of the sahasrara.

                                              God is Love and Truth.... and light ~(:-))




                                              From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                              To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Sunday, 20 February, 2011 0:01:18
                                              Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                               

                                              Ah, that's so great....

                                              The vibrations are only felt because of the physical part of us, it shows that the central nervous system is being sufficiently nourished to ensure a healthy  body, mind, and emotions. When the Sahasrara opens fully there is no mental identity with the body it appears as distinctly seperate from the conciousness and their is no sensation of the nerves or anything felt, all the physical operates autonomously and unconciously....awareness is fully in the heart at that point and one is only the witness...no attachment, no 'other', no 'I', and no reaction, no feeling of want of loss, just pure unconditional awareness of being, relief, completeness, without those concepts coming into the attention, or any geting all emotional about it..it's a precious state of being...keep on undoing those bindings on the heart, with Love...I believe that that is what everyone, conciously and unconciously, are really looking for in Life...unfortunately there are many who fall into despair when they should be forgiving.

                                              I will keep on fighting those 'demons' so that others can get there too and peace can come on earth...

                                              Whenever I have worshipped 'Shri Mataji' it has always been with the complete understanding that the person sitting infront of me is merely trying to represent to us the autonomy of the forces of nature, by characterising them in such a manner that the autonmous nervous system gets a chance to do it's thing, devoid of the demands upon the nervous system caused by chaotic thinking and emotions...it's a technique that works, that's all....

                                              More blessed still are those who no longer need techniques. This has always been what that lady who knew herself and the world well enough to embark on a project to make it easier for people to realise their SELF  has always wanted.

                                              I mentioned the negativity and suffering in the world because it is happening and it is not necessary if there is an easier way to satisfy and negate our animalisitc behaviour...evolution is at a point where people have to conciously make the right choices if the human species is not going to succumb to self-destruction....so what I meant was, all the negativity in the group is like a training ground to make us resilient and able to prove to people that a realised soul can go through anything, thereby giving encouragement to those who find themselves in the terrible situations around the world, that, Yes, it is best to listen to that 'still and small voice' within whenit cries out for justice, but to achieve that justice and equality of recognition we first need to be something ourselves.

                                              All have to start from somewhere and grow, so techniques and concepts are useful to have around for those who need them.

                                              For one who enjoys words like I do the extract below was a great for clarifying that relationship we feel in being identified exclusively with our SELF while symultaneously acting out our daily lives in innocence.

                                              BODHA ATMAN (...where "I am" is deeply established in the soul as Love.

                                              CHAPTER XXXII. - Mahâpurânam S'rî Mad Devî Bhâgavatam by Maharsi Veda Vyâsa

                                               

                                              1-50. The Devî said:--"Hear, ye Immortals! My words with attention, that I am now going to speak to you, hearing which will enable the Jîvas to realise My Essence. Before the creation, I, only I, existed; nothing else was existent then. My Real Self is known by the names Chit, Sambit (Intelligence), Para Brahma and others. My Âtman is beyond mind, beyond thought, beyond any name or mark, without any parallel, and beyond birth, death or any other change or transformation. My Self has one inherent power called Mâyâ. This Mâyâ is not existent, nor non-existent, nor can it be called both. This unspeakable substance Mâyâ always exists (till the final emancipation or Moksha).

                                               

                                              Mâyâ can be destroyed by Brahmna Jñâna; so it can not be called existent, again if Mâyâ does not exist, the practical world catinot exist. So it cannot be called non-existent. Of course it cannot be called both, for it would involve contradictions. This Mâyâ (without beginning but with end at the time of Moksha) naturally arises as heat comes out of fire, as the rays come out of the Sun and as the cooling rays come out of the Moon. Just as all the Karmas of the Jîvas dissolve in deep sleep (S'usupti), so at the time of Pralaya or the General Dissolution, the Karmas of the Jîvas, the Jîvas and Time all become merged, in one uniform mass in this great Mâyâ. United with My S'aktî, I am the Cause of this world; this S'aktî has this defect that it has the power of hiding Me, its Originator.

                                               

                                              I am Nirguna. And when I am united with my S'aktî, Mâyâ, 1 become Saguns, the Great Cause of this world. This Mâyâ is divided into two, Vidyâ and Avidyâ. Avidyâ Mâyâ hides Me; whereas Vidyâ Mâyâ does not. Avidyâ creates whereas Vidyâ Mâyâ liberates.

                                               

                                              Mâyâ united with Chaitanya (Intelligence), i. e., Chidâbhâsa is the efficient cause of this Universe; whereas Mâyâ reduced to and united with five original elements is the material Cause of the Universe. Some call this Mâyâ tapas; some call Her inert, material; some call Her knowledge; some call Her Mâyâ, Pradhâna, Prakriti, Ajâ (unborn) and sonic others call Her S'aktî. The S'aiva authors call Her Vimars'a and the other Vedântists call Her Avidyâ; in short, this Mâyâ is in the heads of all the Pundits. This Mâyâ is called various in the Nigamas.

                                              p. 738

                                               

                                              That which is seen is inert; for this reason Mâyâ is Jada (inert) and as the knowledge it conveys is destroyed, it is false. Chaitanya (Intelligence) is not seen; if It were seen, it would have been Jada. Chaitanya is self-luminous; not illumined by any other source. Were It so, Its Enlightener would have to be illumined by some other. thing and so the fallacy of Anavasthâ creeps in (an endless series of causes and effects). Again one thing cannot be the actor and the thing, acted upon (being contrary to each other); so Chaitanya cannot be illumined by itself. So It is Self-luminous; and it illumines Sun, Moon, etc., as a lamp is self-luminous and illumines other objects. So, O Mountain! This My Intelligence is established as eternal and everlasting. The waking, dreaming and deep sleep states do not remain constant but the sense of "I" remains the same, whether in waking, dreaming or deep sleep state; its anomaly is never felt. (The Bauddhas say that) The sense of ntelligence, Jñâna, is also not, felt; there in the absence of it; so what is existent is also temporarily existent. But (it can then be argued that) then the Witness by which that absence is sensed, that Intelligence, in the shape of the Witness, is eternal. So the Pundits of all the reasonable S'âstras declare that Samvit (Intelligence) is Eternal and it is Blissful the fountain of all love. Never the Jîvas or embodied souls feel "I am not"; but "I am" this feeling is deeply established in the soul as Love.

                                               

                                              Thus it is clearly evident that I am quite Separate from anything else which are all false. Also I am one continuous (no interval or separation existing within Me). Again Jñâna is not the Dharma (the natural quality) of Âtman but it is of the very nature of Âtman. If Jñâna ware the Dharma of Âtman, then Jñâna would have been material; so Jñâna is immaterial. If (for argument's sake) Jñâna be denominated as material, that cannot be. For Jñâna is of the nature of Intelligence and Âtman is of the the nature of Intelligence. Intelligence has not the attribute of being Dharma. Here the thing Chit is not different from its quality (Chit). So Âtman is always of the nature of Jñâna and happiness; Its nature is Truth; It is always Full, unattached and void of duality. This Âtman again, united with Mâyâ, composed of desires and Karmas, wants to create, due to the want of discrimination, the twenty-four tattvas, according to the previous Samskâras (tendencies), time and Karma. O Mountain! The re-awakening after Pralaya Susupti is not done with Buddhi (for then Buddhi is not at all manifested). So this creation is said to be effected without any Buddhi (proper intelligence). O Chief of the Immovables! The Tattva (Reality) that I have spoken to you is most excellent and it is my Extraordinary Form merely. In the Vedas it is known as Avyâkrita (unmodified), Avyakta (unmanifested)

                                              p. 709

                                               

                                              Mâyâ S'abala (divided into various parts) and so forth. In all tlkc S'âstras, it is stated to be the Cause of all causes, the Primeval Tattva and Sachchidlinanda Vigraba. Where all the Karmas are solidified and where Ichchâ S'aktî, (will), Jñâna S'aktî (intelligence) and Kriyâ S'aktî (action) all are melted in one, that is called the Mantra Hrîm, that is the first Tattva. From this comes out Âkâsa, having the property of sound, thence Vâyu (air) with "touch" property; then fire with form, then water having "Rasa" property; and lastly the earth having the quality "smell." The Pundits say that the "sound" is the only quality of Âkâsa; air has two qualities viz., sound and touch, fire has three qualities sound, touch, form; water has four qualities sound, touch, form, taste; and the earth has five qualities sound, touch, form, taste and smell, Out of these five original elements, the allpervading, Sûtra (string or thread) arose. This Sûtrâtman (soul) is called the "Linga Deha," comprising within itself all the Prânas; this is the subtle body of the Paramâtman. And what is said in the previous lines as Avyakta or Unmainfested and in which the Seed of the World is involved and whence the Linga Deha has sprung, that is called the Causal body (Kârana body) of the Paramâtman. The five original elements (Apañchikrita called the five Tan Mâtrâs) being created, next by the Pañchîkarana process, the gross elements are created. The process is now being stated:--O Girijâ! Each of the five original elements is divided into two parts; one part of each of which is subdivided into four parts. This fourth part of each is united with the half of four other elements different from it and thus each gross element is formed. By these five gross elements, the Cosmic (Virât) body is formed and this is called the Gross Body of the God. Jñânendriyas (the organs of knowledge) arise from Sattva Gunas of each of these five elements. Again the Sattva Gunas of each of the Jñânendriyas united become the Antah Karanâni. This Antah karana is of four kinds, according as its functions vary. When it is engaged in forming Sankalpas, resolves, and Vikalpas (doubts) it is called "mind." When it is free from doubts and when it arrives at the decisive conclusion, it is called "Chitta"; and when it rests simply on itself in the shape of the feeling "I", it is called Ahamkâra. From the Rajo Guna of each of the five elements arises Vâk (speech), Pâni (hands) Pâda (feet), Pâyu (Anus) and Upastha (organs of generation). Again their Rajo parts united give rise to the five Prânas (Prâna, Apâna, Samâna, Udâna and Vyâna) the Prâna Vayu resides in the heart; Apâna Vayu in the Arms; Samâna Vayu resides in the Navel; Udâna Vayu rasides in the Throat; and the Vyâna Vâyu resides, pervading all over the body. My subtle body (Linga Deha) arises from the union of the five

                                              p. 710

                                               

                                              Jñânendriyas, the five Karmendriyas (organs of action), the five Pranas and the mind and Buddhi, these seventeen elements. And the Prakriti that resides there is divided into two parts; one is pure (Suddha Satbva) Mâyâ and the other is the impure Mâyâ or Avidyâ united with the Gunas. By Mâyâ is meant She, who, without concealing Her refugees, protects them. When the Supreme Self is reflected on this S'uddha Sattva, Mâyâ, He is called Îs'vara. This Saddha Mâyâ does not conceal Brahma, its receptacle; therefore She knows the All-pervading Brahma and She is omniscient, omnipotent, the Lady of all and confors favours and blessings on all. When the Supreme Self is reflected on the Impure Mâyâ or Avidyâ, He is called Jîva. This Avidyâ conceals Brahma, Whose nature is Happiness; therefore this Jîva is the source of all miseries. Both Îs'vara and Jîva have, by the influence of Vidyâ and Avidyâ three bodies and three names. When the Jîva lives in his causal body, he is named Prâjna; when he lives in subtle body he is known as Taijasa; while he has the gross body, he is called Vis'va. So when Îs'vara is in His causal body, he is denominated Îs'a; when He is in His subtle body, he is known as Sûtra; and when He is in His groqs body, He is known as Virât.

                                               

                                              The Jîva glories in having three (as above-mentioned) kinds of differentiated bodies and Îs'vara glories in having three (as above-mentioned) kinds of cosmic bodies. Thus Îs'vara is the Lord of all and though He feels Himself always happy and satisfied, yet to favour the Jîvas and to give them liberation (Moksa) He has created various sorts of worldly things for their Bhogas (enjoyments). This Îs'vara creates all the Universe, impelled by My Brahma S'aktî. I am of the nature of Brahma; and Îs'vara in conceived in Me as a snake is imagined in a rope. Therefore Îs'vara has to remain dependent on My S'akti.

                                               

                                              Here ends the Thirty-second Chapter of the Seventh Book on Self-realization,  in the Mahâpurnam S'rî Mad Devî Bhâgavatam, of 18,000 verses, by Maharsi Veda Vyâsa.

                                               



                                              From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                              To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Saturday, 19 February, 2011 23:01:58
                                              Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                               

                                              HI Clive,
                                               
                                              Yes, ultimately we are talking the same thing.  There are differences.  I know Shri Mataji was my spiritual teacher for many years, but I no longer worship her nor have the understanding of it. Everything melts in ONENESS and to worship is to separate, and to put one above or below another person is still illusive.  What do incarnations represent other than our higher self?  The Son of man you can call Christ but it is all of us as ONE.   During these past two years, my transformation has been really incredible to such an experience where I pray and I feel like my own spirit is praying to itself..there is no separation anymore.  It doesn't seem as difficult as it was but it does take a lot.
                                              You have not opened any wounds because I am dealing with my emotions and thoughts as they come.  There is nothing I hide from myself anymore.  Being aware is precisely being in touch with everything that is happening within.  If an emotion comes up, I will treat it like I would a small child--with love and understanding and then release it.  
                                              I dont care what Sahaja Yogies think of me, specially because if they think negative, it is from their own perception which has much to do with them and not me.  I no longer care to return to the group because I dont need to.  My intuitive self is incredible and each one of us has it.  Intuition goes beyond vibrations and if you are in touch with it, it will answer all your questions.  There are many many loving people in the world and the entire world is our family.
                                              You asked about bad or evil.  Dont fixate yourself on it.  The only way to transform this world is by fully being YOU /LOVE.  You will begin to see everyone as complete, even the people who havent felt complete.  By feeling their complete self, they will begin to feel their own and transform.  The body gets sick because we identify with it, and with the illness...whatever we identify with is our reality.  If  you identify with "the evil of the world" then you are not helping to disolve it.  I believe in what the Toltecs said that the big maya is actually the illusion that there is good against evil---this is so not true---it is just truth and lies and evil is not evil..it is lies...when we overcome our own lies there is only truth.  We cannot change anyone else..but when we are fully LOVE then we spread it everywhere--  spread it around the world just by sending it and you dont even need to give a bhandhan, just send it out.    I had to face my reactions to false gurus.  I have friends who read Osho,and other gurus and it is fine with me, whoever is ready is getting realized, not by what they read but by their own spirit.  I love all my friends and I really respect whatever they resonate with.  Whatever we react to we create an obstacle to TRUTH..so allow things to be as they are and fully accept it unless you can change it.  But trust me that it is easier to change ourselves than it is to change any one else.
                                              I am still experimenting and undoing--- why do I feel vibrations or energy when I dont see Shri Mataji as more than a guru?  when I am no longer in SY?  are these conditioned feelings?  I will experiment ..because there is something aware of those feelings..and those feelings are not me but are felt...the total background when I can no longer identify with something other than just BEING in total silent presence...that is Ultimate.
                                              Love and light
                                               
                                               

                                              --- On Sat, 2/19/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                                              From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                              Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                              To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                              Received: Saturday, February 19, 2011, 6:29 PM

                                               
                                              Have you realised yet that we are both saying the same thing, just using different words, in a different way ? (:-))

                                              Sorry if I have opened old wounds for you.

                                              Sahaja Yoga , as they are written here, is just two words...

                                              What it means is a different story.

                                              The meaning of that saying amongst Muslims comes from the fact that we are all born innocent, helpless, at the mercy of things beyond our control, in effect, forcefully surrendered...

                                              And yet in that state, so long as we are well taken care of  we are completely free, more than we ever will be in ourlives, because we have no thought or expectatin of anything, all is a wonderful joygiving mystery, so long as we are taken care of...

                                              Kundalini is our Mother inside us, this you know .... so why worry about what other's think ?! You do so because you don't want to offend anyone...but sometimes you have to offend in order to show the truth isn't it...!!!

                                              I too was scorned by people for leaving my angry caught up Sahaj marriage...so, they would never understand until it happens to them...and I pray it never does because it's not nice...

                                              I eneded up marrying someone wjom I chose for myself, and still it was horrendous, for a long time, and guess what,  I realised we were both to blame,and if I changed myself things would get better...now we are like two peas in pod enjoying, especially after knowing how foolish we had both been before...people only fight when they scared....one who knows their self is automatically never scared.

                                              So now I am able to be one with my SELF, and am no longer afraid, and can go anywhere with confidence, and Love in my heart.

                                              Jai Shri Mataji

                                              P.S. EVERYTHING is 'MahaMaya' , it simply means 'Great Mystery'...even my cat is 'Maha Maya'

                                              As Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi Shrivastava herself once said...'Even this stone is God, the thing is it can't REALISE it'...it's inconcievable, but felt as Love and Truth by human beings who's desire is pure and peaceful.

                                              Life is what one makes it, within the boundaries of nature.

                                              Sorry for your troubles...one can only know it if one has walked in those shoes...I wouyld not wish that anyone should walk in mine.

                                              with Love, always.



                                              From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                              To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Saturday, 19 February, 2011 7:42:29
                                              Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                               
                                              Do you know what Muslims believe?  That all are born to Islam.  Meaning all are born in submission to God.  This is as true as your statement.  Does it mean we have to separate each other and fear each other for not being in THAT?  Just so you know---  I was as deep as anyone can get in Sahaja Yoga for many many years.  The reason I left is because of other's fear of my divorce--they were scared that SY would get a bad name---that is how fearful people are in there! and uncompassionate as a result.. but my years there I felt vibrations with ease, and I have been a very clear person--- people know me as a very pure soul.  I am not against SY.  I feel that people should evolve past feeling vibrations, past fears of others, past separation of groups and judgement of each other.  You dont see it, but you are conditioned into group belief aside from vibrations.  And vibrations change all the time.  You can feel one person now and tomorrow feel him or her again and it might change---it will change for sure all the time...but many judge them from that moment they check.  There is a lot of fears in the group.  It is important to note them down when you introspect and overcome them.  I am not here to condemn but to really open your eyes if possible.  I said it before---Mahamaya is maya, but your spirit will never delude you---NEVER.  All is God and your experience of reality and others completely reflects from you.  Without you, you wouldnt see others nor this world as you see them...without YOU you would not feel what you feel, nor realize what you realize.  No one can transform you but your self by your own desire and will and readiness (even Shri Mataji says this!).  And this will happen under any circumstances which has no name, or organization or religion or meditation group.  Spirit even has a name that we gave it, but it still IS whether we name it or not...so you can call people or self realization as Sahaja yoga or sahaja yogies or  what you like, it doesnt mean that is what they are, that is what you think they are by your belief--and beliefs are man made.  

                                              --- On Sat, 2/19/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                                              From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                              Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                              To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                              Received: Saturday, February 19, 2011, 12:02 AM

                                               
                                              ...in that respect, anyone who is self-realised is a Sahaja Yogi; someone in the sate of Yoga, which is something that happens spontaneously through the opening of the Sahasrara.






                                              From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                              To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 22:15:37
                                              Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                               
                                              Someone is only 'in Sahaja Yoga' if they are aware of themselves and remain in that awareness.

                                              Sahaja Yoga is a state of BEING, that's why ot is called pure religion...Religion itself is an process of introspection, something that is undertaken...again people use concepts to suti their awareness of the world and their place in it.

                                              Attempts at organising religion, the aspiration, is also being religious, until that is the spontanaity is lost amidst dogmatism born of people who do not know their SELF and so do not know true freedom.



                                              From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                              To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 21:54:17
                                              Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                               
                                              In other words, Sahaja Yoga has NOTHING to do with beingness and existance..it is for some, a way to get to  THEIR OWN awareness but it is not awareness itself nor beingness itself.  It is still a lable and an illusion, and so the same would be any Guru...a finger pointing at the moon is not the moon.  All ends up in "I AM"  God is also "I AM" and so is each of us..meaning all is the same, us, incarnations,all the same! " I AM" is the basis and that can happen to anyone at any point in time when one is ready by any means, not just Sahaja Yoga.  I have met very mature saintly people who havent even heard of Sahaja Yoga. 

                                              --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...> wrote:

                                              From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                              Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                              To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                              Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 9:46 PM

                                               

                                              Yes...but are all BEINGS IN Sahaja yoga?  does beingness require that one should be a Sahaja Yogi?  Is existance without meaning without Sahaja Yoga? Sahaja Yoga is a teaching or the return to our selves, but we should graduate at some point, just like you do from school.  Become truly your own master and rely on your inner self.
                                              --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                                              From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                              Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                              To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                              Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 8:48 PM

                                               
                                              Sahaja Yoga is a state of being, Shri Mataji has always taught from that perspective...hence the essence of absloute truth being in all things. It's only the mind that interprets things wrongly.



                                              From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                              To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 19:19:59
                                              Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                               
                                               The main thing I have learned is that one is ONE within spirit and and even kundalini is part of creation.  Vibrations I have found are not that much above thinking..that if you keep relying on such, you will be stuck in a web of negative and positive which is duality...it doesn not make you go that much higher than that.  Only connecting to the spirit totally without any distractions of the outside will one find the most powerful energy which is spirit and that is who we are.  It is unfair to claim that ex-members are not true seekers. All are spirit and all will get there! There are no chose ones.  All are chosen and all will arrive sooner or later because God is everyone of us non excluded!!!
                                               I felt stuck after a while of not seeing any improvements on me or my sahaj siblings...all were so distracted trying to organize the group.  I no longer felt I was "evolving" at that slow pace.  Eventually we have to unplug from all group systems and unite as one...spirit doesnt know any name such as sahaja yoga..it is still creation...while spirit observes many things are created.  It is really true that when in a group one goes with the 'flock" and does not really take responsability to get rid of fears etc.   I found that I was afraid to leave sahaja yoga scared that I would no longer feel vibrations...well guess what....I feel an amazing energy which is my spirit and incredible intuition much more powerful than I ever did before.   ALl is a part of evolution and so was SY for me..but that is not the ultimate.  There are no rights and wrongs and no mistakes in life...nothing I regret....but I am not staying in the fears of group conditionings.  I wish all would see how many conditionings you have aquired in SY too...and how much you fear to even hug your parents who are not in sahaja yoga because they have negativity?  isnt this fear?  how can your heart be open with that kind of fear?  if we separate we are not being in spirit...anything that separates is ego!  non-sahaja yogies vs sahaja yogies IS separation...and that fear will limit you.  It is your choice.  I love the entire world and feel all in me and me in all. 

                                              --- On Fri, 1/28/11, talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                              From: talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                              To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                              Received: Friday, January 28, 2011, 7:00 AM

                                               

                                              Hey
                                              still alive and kicking...
                                              check out www.shri-mataji.org and www.sahajayogafacs.info

                                              cheers
                                              s.

                                              --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, "victorysnear" <victorysnear@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > I know it's been a very hard job for all those wonderful ex sahaja yogis to keep this place working. You've given so much to others here! I'll never thank you enough.
                                              > Even though, I think time has come to change this place. Make a Blog out of it. Keep the memory of your past for other victims of this dreadful cult and don't let this place fall into the hands of sy cult. I know each of you has your own busy life, you're so clever and bright, interested in your families, in culture and in fun too. You have moved on, I know. You deserve it. But the work you've done must be kept for others until sy disapears, it won't be a long time, victory's near...
                                              > My regards to TASY group
                                              > Vic
                                              >
                                              > --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, isaac iba <iba22000@> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > hi noé, i'm too here in this group to talk about my deeply experiences with
                                              > > sahaja yoga ,i think we are so lucky to be a sahaja yogi ,but a good because
                                              > > many persons whose was abuse with a false or bad sahaja yogi have now a bad
                                              > > experience about sahaja yoga and some of them who wasn't a true seekers feel
                                              > > deception but i want to encourage you to be sincere with the relationship
                                              > > between you and the mother kundalini whose have been awakened by the power of
                                              > > shri mataji...
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > ________________________________
                                              > > De : Noe Fosso Kamga <nfossokamga@>
                                              > > À : talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > Envoyé le : Mer 15 décembre 2010, 15h 06min 45s
                                              > > Objet : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > Hi, my name is Fosso Kamga Noe.I have been a sahaja yogi since five years.I want
                                              > > here in this group, to talk about what I feel in sahaja yoga.I want to say what
                                              > > great bliss is the work doing by Shri mataji. and I hope, all of members of the
                                              > > group, will understand and share with me.
                                              > >
                                              >






                                            • Clive Bates
                                              1985-03 There is no need for any leader to tell you, there is no need for any ashram fellow to tell you, there is no need for anyone to tell you. It is
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Feb 19, 2011
                                              • 0 Attachment

                                                1985-03

                                                 

                                                "There is no need for any leader to tell you, there is no need for any ashram fellow to tell you, there is no need for anyone to tell you. It is you who is a realised soul, you are your own master, you are your own Guru. Imagine you are all gurus, great gurus and Sadgurus, respected saints, where all the angels have to shower you with flowers. Think of it! And here you are, bumptiously giving lectures, talking bumptiously. Very embarrassing –even for the deities. They do not know what to do, whether to garland you or to shut your mouth! Here you are, in such a great position that you have got realisation. That is the only thing you have to accept, is the beauty of this great Yoga, that you just enlighten your own powers which are on these seven chakras." ( H.H. SHRI MATA JI NIRMALA DEVI )




                                                From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                                To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Sunday, 20 February, 2011 0:38:50
                                                Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                                 

                                                Actually it's wrong of me to say that the attention goes fully into the heart, it is more like that the attention, one's awareness is from Sahasrara, and it one's view on everything actually feels like it is coming from there, complete peaceful detachment and awareness all at once, wherein one still goes about dong what is necessary to ensure the external and internal conditions are right for the sustainance of that state of  knowing one's self as one with everything, through direct experience and not thought.

                                                I suppose this is why Shri Mataji said that the qulities of the heart chakra constitutes the centre of the sahasrara.

                                                God is Love and Truth.... and light ~(:-))




                                                From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                                To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Sunday, 20 February, 2011 0:01:18
                                                Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                                 

                                                Ah, that's so great....

                                                The vibrations are only felt because of the physical part of us, it shows that the central nervous system is being sufficiently nourished to ensure a healthy  body, mind, and emotions. When the Sahasrara opens fully there is no mental identity with the body it appears as distinctly seperate from the conciousness and their is no sensation of the nerves or anything felt, all the physical operates autonomously and unconciously....awareness is fully in the heart at that point and one is only the witness...no attachment, no 'other', no 'I', and no reaction, no feeling of want of loss, just pure unconditional awareness of being, relief, completeness, without those concepts coming into the attention, or any geting all emotional about it..it's a precious state of being...keep on undoing those bindings on the heart, with Love...I believe that that is what everyone, conciously and unconciously, are really looking for in Life...unfortunately there are many who fall into despair when they should be forgiving.

                                                I will keep on fighting those 'demons' so that others can get there too and peace can come on earth...

                                                Whenever I have worshipped 'Shri Mataji' it has always been with the complete understanding that the person sitting infront of me is merely trying to represent to us the autonomy of the forces of nature, by characterising them in such a manner that the autonmous nervous system gets a chance to do it's thing, devoid of the demands upon the nervous system caused by chaotic thinking and emotions...it's a technique that works, that's all....

                                                More blessed still are those who no longer need techniques. This has always been what that lady who knew herself and the world well enough to embark on a project to make it easier for people to realise their SELF  has always wanted.

                                                I mentioned the negativity and suffering in the world because it is happening and it is not necessary if there is an easier way to satisfy and negate our animalisitc behaviour...evolution is at a point where people have to conciously make the right choices if the human species is not going to succumb to self-destruction....so what I meant was, all the negativity in the group is like a training ground to make us resilient and able to prove to people that a realised soul can go through anything, thereby giving encouragement to those who find themselves in the terrible situations around the world, that, Yes, it is best to listen to that 'still and small voice' within whenit cries out for justice, but to achieve that justice and equality of recognition we first need to be something ourselves.

                                                All have to start from somewhere and grow, so techniques and concepts are useful to have around for those who need them.

                                                For one who enjoys words like I do the extract below was a great for clarifying that relationship we feel in being identified exclusively with our SELF while symultaneously acting out our daily lives in innocence.

                                                BODHA ATMAN (...where "I am" is deeply established in the soul as Love.

                                                CHAPTER XXXII. - Mahâpurânam S'rî Mad Devî Bhâgavatam by Maharsi Veda Vyâsa

                                                 

                                                1-50. The Devî said:--"Hear, ye Immortals! My words with attention, that I am now going to speak to you, hearing which will enable the Jîvas to realise My Essence. Before the creation, I, only I, existed; nothing else was existent then. My Real Self is known by the names Chit, Sambit (Intelligence), Para Brahma and others. My Âtman is beyond mind, beyond thought, beyond any name or mark, without any parallel, and beyond birth, death or any other change or transformation. My Self has one inherent power called Mâyâ. This Mâyâ is not existent, nor non-existent, nor can it be called both. This unspeakable substance Mâyâ always exists (till the final emancipation or Moksha).

                                                 

                                                Mâyâ can be destroyed by Brahmna Jñâna; so it can not be called existent, again if Mâyâ does not exist, the practical world catinot exist. So it cannot be called non-existent. Of course it cannot be called both, for it would involve contradictions. This Mâyâ (without beginning but with end at the time of Moksha) naturally arises as heat comes out of fire, as the rays come out of the Sun and as the cooling rays come out of the Moon. Just as all the Karmas of the Jîvas dissolve in deep sleep (S'usupti), so at the time of Pralaya or the General Dissolution, the Karmas of the Jîvas, the Jîvas and Time all become merged, in one uniform mass in this great Mâyâ. United with My S'aktî, I am the Cause of this world; this S'aktî has this defect that it has the power of hiding Me, its Originator.

                                                 

                                                I am Nirguna. And when I am united with my S'aktî, Mâyâ, 1 become Saguns, the Great Cause of this world. This Mâyâ is divided into two, Vidyâ and Avidyâ. Avidyâ Mâyâ hides Me; whereas Vidyâ Mâyâ does not. Avidyâ creates whereas Vidyâ Mâyâ liberates.

                                                 

                                                Mâyâ united with Chaitanya (Intelligence), i. e., Chidâbhâsa is the efficient cause of this Universe; whereas Mâyâ reduced to and united with five original elements is the material Cause of the Universe. Some call this Mâyâ tapas; some call Her inert, material; some call Her knowledge; some call Her Mâyâ, Pradhâna, Prakriti, Ajâ (unborn) and sonic others call Her S'aktî. The S'aiva authors call Her Vimars'a and the other Vedântists call Her Avidyâ; in short, this Mâyâ is in the heads of all the Pundits. This Mâyâ is called various in the Nigamas.

                                                p. 738

                                                 

                                                That which is seen is inert; for this reason Mâyâ is Jada (inert) and as the knowledge it conveys is destroyed, it is false. Chaitanya (Intelligence) is not seen; if It were seen, it would have been Jada. Chaitanya is self-luminous; not illumined by any other source. Were It so, Its Enlightener would have to be illumined by some other. thing and so the fallacy of Anavasthâ creeps in (an endless series of causes and effects). Again one thing cannot be the actor and the thing, acted upon (being contrary to each other); so Chaitanya cannot be illumined by itself. So It is Self-luminous; and it illumines Sun, Moon, etc., as a lamp is self-luminous and illumines other objects. So, O Mountain! This My Intelligence is established as eternal and everlasting. The waking, dreaming and deep sleep states do not remain constant but the sense of "I" remains the same, whether in waking, dreaming or deep sleep state; its anomaly is never felt. (The Bauddhas say that) The sense of ntelligence, Jñâna, is also not, felt; there in the absence of it; so what is existent is also temporarily existent. But (it can then be argued that) then the Witness by which that absence is sensed, that Intelligence, in the shape of the Witness, is eternal. So the Pundits of all the reasonable S'âstras declare that Samvit (Intelligence) is Eternal and it is Blissful the fountain of all love. Never the Jîvas or embodied souls feel "I am not"; but "I am" this feeling is deeply established in the soul as Love.

                                                 

                                                Thus it is clearly evident that I am quite Separate from anything else which are all false. Also I am one continuous (no interval or separation existing within Me). Again Jñâna is not the Dharma (the natural quality) of Âtman but it is of the very nature of Âtman. If Jñâna ware the Dharma of Âtman, then Jñâna would have been material; so Jñâna is immaterial. If (for argument's sake) Jñâna be denominated as material, that cannot be. For Jñâna is of the nature of Intelligence and Âtman is of the the nature of Intelligence. Intelligence has not the attribute of being Dharma. Here the thing Chit is not different from its quality (Chit). So Âtman is always of the nature of Jñâna and happiness; Its nature is Truth; It is always Full, unattached and void of duality. This Âtman again, united with Mâyâ, composed of desires and Karmas, wants to create, due to the want of discrimination, the twenty-four tattvas, according to the previous Samskâras (tendencies), time and Karma. O Mountain! The re-awakening after Pralaya Susupti is not done with Buddhi (for then Buddhi is not at all manifested). So this creation is said to be effected without any Buddhi (proper intelligence). O Chief of the Immovables! The Tattva (Reality) that I have spoken to you is most excellent and it is my Extraordinary Form merely. In the Vedas it is known as Avyâkrita (unmodified), Avyakta (unmanifested)

                                                p. 709

                                                 

                                                Mâyâ S'abala (divided into various parts) and so forth. In all tlkc S'âstras, it is stated to be the Cause of all causes, the Primeval Tattva and Sachchidlinanda Vigraba. Where all the Karmas are solidified and where Ichchâ S'aktî, (will), Jñâna S'aktî (intelligence) and Kriyâ S'aktî (action) all are melted in one, that is called the Mantra Hrîm, that is the first Tattva. From this comes out Âkâsa, having the property of sound, thence Vâyu (air) with "touch" property; then fire with form, then water having "Rasa" property; and lastly the earth having the quality "smell." The Pundits say that the "sound" is the only quality of Âkâsa; air has two qualities viz., sound and touch, fire has three qualities sound, touch, form; water has four qualities sound, touch, form, taste; and the earth has five qualities sound, touch, form, taste and smell, Out of these five original elements, the allpervading, Sûtra (string or thread) arose. This Sûtrâtman (soul) is called the "Linga Deha," comprising within itself all the Prânas; this is the subtle body of the Paramâtman. And what is said in the previous lines as Avyakta or Unmainfested and in which the Seed of the World is involved and whence the Linga Deha has sprung, that is called the Causal body (Kârana body) of the Paramâtman. The five original elements (Apañchikrita called the five Tan Mâtrâs) being created, next by the Pañchîkarana process, the gross elements are created. The process is now being stated:--O Girijâ! Each of the five original elements is divided into two parts; one part of each of which is subdivided into four parts. This fourth part of each is united with the half of four other elements different from it and thus each gross element is formed. By these five gross elements, the Cosmic (Virât) body is formed and this is called the Gross Body of the God. Jñânendriyas (the organs of knowledge) arise from Sattva Gunas of each of these five elements. Again the Sattva Gunas of each of the Jñânendriyas united become the Antah Karanâni. This Antah karana is of four kinds, according as its functions vary. When it is engaged in forming Sankalpas, resolves, and Vikalpas (doubts) it is called "mind." When it is free from doubts and when it arrives at the decisive conclusion, it is called "Chitta"; and when it rests simply on itself in the shape of the feeling "I", it is called Ahamkâra. From the Rajo Guna of each of the five elements arises Vâk (speech), Pâni (hands) Pâda (feet), Pâyu (Anus) and Upastha (organs of generation). Again their Rajo parts united give rise to the five Prânas (Prâna, Apâna, Samâna, Udâna and Vyâna) the Prâna Vayu resides in the heart; Apâna Vayu in the Arms; Samâna Vayu resides in the Navel; Udâna Vayu rasides in the Throat; and the Vyâna Vâyu resides, pervading all over the body. My subtle body (Linga Deha) arises from the union of the five

                                                p. 710

                                                 

                                                Jñânendriyas, the five Karmendriyas (organs of action), the five Pranas and the mind and Buddhi, these seventeen elements. And the Prakriti that resides there is divided into two parts; one is pure (Suddha Satbva) Mâyâ and the other is the impure Mâyâ or Avidyâ united with the Gunas. By Mâyâ is meant She, who, without concealing Her refugees, protects them. When the Supreme Self is reflected on this S'uddha Sattva, Mâyâ, He is called Îs'vara. This Saddha Mâyâ does not conceal Brahma, its receptacle; therefore She knows the All-pervading Brahma and She is omniscient, omnipotent, the Lady of all and confors favours and blessings on all. When the Supreme Self is reflected on the Impure Mâyâ or Avidyâ, He is called Jîva. This Avidyâ conceals Brahma, Whose nature is Happiness; therefore this Jîva is the source of all miseries. Both Îs'vara and Jîva have, by the influence of Vidyâ and Avidyâ three bodies and three names. When the Jîva lives in his causal body, he is named Prâjna; when he lives in subtle body he is known as Taijasa; while he has the gross body, he is called Vis'va. So when Îs'vara is in His causal body, he is denominated Îs'a; when He is in His subtle body, he is known as Sûtra; and when He is in His groqs body, He is known as Virât.

                                                 

                                                The Jîva glories in having three (as above-mentioned) kinds of differentiated bodies and Îs'vara glories in having three (as above-mentioned) kinds of cosmic bodies. Thus Îs'vara is the Lord of all and though He feels Himself always happy and satisfied, yet to favour the Jîvas and to give them liberation (Moksa) He has created various sorts of worldly things for their Bhogas (enjoyments). This Îs'vara creates all the Universe, impelled by My Brahma S'aktî. I am of the nature of Brahma; and Îs'vara in conceived in Me as a snake is imagined in a rope. Therefore Îs'vara has to remain dependent on My S'akti.

                                                 

                                                Here ends the Thirty-second Chapter of the Seventh Book on Self-realization,  in the Mahâpurnam S'rî Mad Devî Bhâgavatam, of 18,000 verses, by Maharsi Veda Vyâsa.

                                                 



                                                From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                                To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Saturday, 19 February, 2011 23:01:58
                                                Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                                 

                                                HI Clive,
                                                 
                                                Yes, ultimately we are talking the same thing.  There are differences.  I know Shri Mataji was my spiritual teacher for many years, but I no longer worship her nor have the understanding of it. Everything melts in ONENESS and to worship is to separate, and to put one above or below another person is still illusive.  What do incarnations represent other than our higher self?  The Son of man you can call Christ but it is all of us as ONE.   During these past two years, my transformation has been really incredible to such an experience where I pray and I feel like my own spirit is praying to itself..there is no separation anymore.  It doesn't seem as difficult as it was but it does take a lot.
                                                You have not opened any wounds because I am dealing with my emotions and thoughts as they come.  There is nothing I hide from myself anymore.  Being aware is precisely being in touch with everything that is happening within.  If an emotion comes up, I will treat it like I would a small child--with love and understanding and then release it.  
                                                I dont care what Sahaja Yogies think of me, specially because if they think negative, it is from their own perception which has much to do with them and not me.  I no longer care to return to the group because I dont need to.  My intuitive self is incredible and each one of us has it.  Intuition goes beyond vibrations and if you are in touch with it, it will answer all your questions.  There are many many loving people in the world and the entire world is our family.
                                                You asked about bad or evil.  Dont fixate yourself on it.  The only way to transform this world is by fully being YOU /LOVE.  You will begin to see everyone as complete, even the people who havent felt complete.  By feeling their complete self, they will begin to feel their own and transform.  The body gets sick because we identify with it, and with the illness...whatever we identify with is our reality.  If  you identify with "the evil of the world" then you are not helping to disolve it.  I believe in what the Toltecs said that the big maya is actually the illusion that there is good against evil---this is so not true---it is just truth and lies and evil is not evil..it is lies...when we overcome our own lies there is only truth.  We cannot change anyone else..but when we are fully LOVE then we spread it everywhere--  spread it around the world just by sending it and you dont even need to give a bhandhan, just send it out.    I had to face my reactions to false gurus.  I have friends who read Osho,and other gurus and it is fine with me, whoever is ready is getting realized, not by what they read but by their own spirit.  I love all my friends and I really respect whatever they resonate with.  Whatever we react to we create an obstacle to TRUTH..so allow things to be as they are and fully accept it unless you can change it.  But trust me that it is easier to change ourselves than it is to change any one else.
                                                I am still experimenting and undoing--- why do I feel vibrations or energy when I dont see Shri Mataji as more than a guru?  when I am no longer in SY?  are these conditioned feelings?  I will experiment ..because there is something aware of those feelings..and those feelings are not me but are felt...the total background when I can no longer identify with something other than just BEING in total silent presence...that is Ultimate.
                                                Love and light
                                                 
                                                 

                                                --- On Sat, 2/19/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                                                From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                                Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                                To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                Received: Saturday, February 19, 2011, 6:29 PM

                                                 
                                                Have you realised yet that we are both saying the same thing, just using different words, in a different way ? (:-))

                                                Sorry if I have opened old wounds for you.

                                                Sahaja Yoga , as they are written here, is just two words...

                                                What it means is a different story.

                                                The meaning of that saying amongst Muslims comes from the fact that we are all born innocent, helpless, at the mercy of things beyond our control, in effect, forcefully surrendered...

                                                And yet in that state, so long as we are well taken care of  we are completely free, more than we ever will be in ourlives, because we have no thought or expectatin of anything, all is a wonderful joygiving mystery, so long as we are taken care of...

                                                Kundalini is our Mother inside us, this you know .... so why worry about what other's think ?! You do so because you don't want to offend anyone...but sometimes you have to offend in order to show the truth isn't it...!!!

                                                I too was scorned by people for leaving my angry caught up Sahaj marriage...so, they would never understand until it happens to them...and I pray it never does because it's not nice...

                                                I eneded up marrying someone wjom I chose for myself, and still it was horrendous, for a long time, and guess what,  I realised we were both to blame,and if I changed myself things would get better...now we are like two peas in pod enjoying, especially after knowing how foolish we had both been before...people only fight when they scared....one who knows their self is automatically never scared.

                                                So now I am able to be one with my SELF, and am no longer afraid, and can go anywhere with confidence, and Love in my heart.

                                                Jai Shri Mataji

                                                P.S. EVERYTHING is 'MahaMaya' , it simply means 'Great Mystery'...even my cat is 'Maha Maya'

                                                As Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi Shrivastava herself once said...'Even this stone is God, the thing is it can't REALISE it'...it's inconcievable, but felt as Love and Truth by human beings who's desire is pure and peaceful.

                                                Life is what one makes it, within the boundaries of nature.

                                                Sorry for your troubles...one can only know it if one has walked in those shoes...I wouyld not wish that anyone should walk in mine.

                                                with Love, always.



                                                From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                                To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Saturday, 19 February, 2011 7:42:29
                                                Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                                 
                                                Do you know what Muslims believe?  That all are born to Islam.  Meaning all are born in submission to God.  This is as true as your statement.  Does it mean we have to separate each other and fear each other for not being in THAT?  Just so you know---  I was as deep as anyone can get in Sahaja Yoga for many many years.  The reason I left is because of other's fear of my divorce--they were scared that SY would get a bad name---that is how fearful people are in there! and uncompassionate as a result.. but my years there I felt vibrations with ease, and I have been a very clear person--- people know me as a very pure soul.  I am not against SY.  I feel that people should evolve past feeling vibrations, past fears of others, past separation of groups and judgement of each other.  You dont see it, but you are conditioned into group belief aside from vibrations.  And vibrations change all the time.  You can feel one person now and tomorrow feel him or her again and it might change---it will change for sure all the time...but many judge them from that moment they check.  There is a lot of fears in the group.  It is important to note them down when you introspect and overcome them.  I am not here to condemn but to really open your eyes if possible.  I said it before---Mahamaya is maya, but your spirit will never delude you---NEVER.  All is God and your experience of reality and others completely reflects from you.  Without you, you wouldnt see others nor this world as you see them...without YOU you would not feel what you feel, nor realize what you realize.  No one can transform you but your self by your own desire and will and readiness (even Shri Mataji says this!).  And this will happen under any circumstances which has no name, or organization or religion or meditation group.  Spirit even has a name that we gave it, but it still IS whether we name it or not...so you can call people or self realization as Sahaja yoga or sahaja yogies or  what you like, it doesnt mean that is what they are, that is what you think they are by your belief--and beliefs are man made.  

                                                --- On Sat, 2/19/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                                                From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                                Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                                To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                Received: Saturday, February 19, 2011, 12:02 AM

                                                 
                                                ...in that respect, anyone who is self-realised is a Sahaja Yogi; someone in the sate of Yoga, which is something that happens spontaneously through the opening of the Sahasrara.






                                                From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                                To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 22:15:37
                                                Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                                 
                                                Someone is only 'in Sahaja Yoga' if they are aware of themselves and remain in that awareness.

                                                Sahaja Yoga is a state of BEING, that's why ot is called pure religion...Religion itself is an process of introspection, something that is undertaken...again people use concepts to suti their awareness of the world and their place in it.

                                                Attempts at organising religion, the aspiration, is also being religious, until that is the spontanaity is lost amidst dogmatism born of people who do not know their SELF and so do not know true freedom.



                                                From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                                To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 21:54:17
                                                Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                                 
                                                In other words, Sahaja Yoga has NOTHING to do with beingness and existance..it is for some, a way to get to  THEIR OWN awareness but it is not awareness itself nor beingness itself.  It is still a lable and an illusion, and so the same would be any Guru...a finger pointing at the moon is not the moon.  All ends up in "I AM"  God is also "I AM" and so is each of us..meaning all is the same, us, incarnations,all the same! " I AM" is the basis and that can happen to anyone at any point in time when one is ready by any means, not just Sahaja Yoga.  I have met very mature saintly people who havent even heard of Sahaja Yoga. 

                                                --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...> wrote:

                                                From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                                Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                                To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 9:46 PM

                                                 

                                                Yes...but are all BEINGS IN Sahaja yoga?  does beingness require that one should be a Sahaja Yogi?  Is existance without meaning without Sahaja Yoga? Sahaja Yoga is a teaching or the return to our selves, but we should graduate at some point, just like you do from school.  Become truly your own master and rely on your inner self.
                                                --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                                                From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                                Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                                To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 8:48 PM

                                                 
                                                Sahaja Yoga is a state of being, Shri Mataji has always taught from that perspective...hence the essence of absloute truth being in all things. It's only the mind that interprets things wrongly.



                                                From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                                To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 19:19:59
                                                Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                                 
                                                 The main thing I have learned is that one is ONE within spirit and and even kundalini is part of creation.  Vibrations I have found are not that much above thinking..that if you keep relying on such, you will be stuck in a web of negative and positive which is duality...it doesn not make you go that much higher than that.  Only connecting to the spirit totally without any distractions of the outside will one find the most powerful energy which is spirit and that is who we are.  It is unfair to claim that ex-members are not true seekers. All are spirit and all will get there! There are no chose ones.  All are chosen and all will arrive sooner or later because God is everyone of us non excluded!!!
                                                 I felt stuck after a while of not seeing any improvements on me or my sahaj siblings...all were so distracted trying to organize the group.  I no longer felt I was "evolving" at that slow pace.  Eventually we have to unplug from all group systems and unite as one...spirit doesnt know any name such as sahaja yoga..it is still creation...while spirit observes many things are created.  It is really true that when in a group one goes with the 'flock" and does not really take responsability to get rid of fears etc.   I found that I was afraid to leave sahaja yoga scared that I would no longer feel vibrations...well guess what....I feel an amazing energy which is my spirit and incredible intuition much more powerful than I ever did before.   ALl is a part of evolution and so was SY for me..but that is not the ultimate.  There are no rights and wrongs and no mistakes in life...nothing I regret....but I am not staying in the fears of group conditionings.  I wish all would see how many conditionings you have aquired in SY too...and how much you fear to even hug your parents who are not in sahaja yoga because they have negativity?  isnt this fear?  how can your heart be open with that kind of fear?  if we separate we are not being in spirit...anything that separates is ego!  non-sahaja yogies vs sahaja yogies IS separation...and that fear will limit you.  It is your choice.  I love the entire world and feel all in me and me in all. 

                                                --- On Fri, 1/28/11, talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                                From: talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com>
                                                Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                                To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                Received: Friday, January 28, 2011, 7:00 AM

                                                 

                                                Hey
                                                still alive and kicking...
                                                check out www.shri-mataji.org and www.sahajayogafacs.info

                                                cheers
                                                s.

                                                --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, "victorysnear" <victorysnear@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > I know it's been a very hard job for all those wonderful ex sahaja yogis to keep this place working. You've given so much to others here! I'll never thank you enough.
                                                > Even though, I think time has come to change this place. Make a Blog out of it. Keep the memory of your past for other victims of this dreadful cult and don't let this place fall into the hands of sy cult. I know each of you has your own busy life, you're so clever and bright, interested in your families, in culture and in fun too. You have moved on, I know. You deserve it. But the work you've done must be kept for others until sy disapears, it won't be a long time, victory's near...
                                                > My regards to TASY group
                                                > Vic
                                                >
                                                > --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, isaac iba <iba22000@> wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > > hi noé, i'm too here in this group to talk about my deeply experiences with
                                                > > sahaja yoga ,i think we are so lucky to be a sahaja yogi ,but a good because
                                                > > many persons whose was abuse with a false or bad sahaja yogi have now a bad
                                                > > experience about sahaja yoga and some of them who wasn't a true seekers feel
                                                > > deception but i want to encourage you to be sincere with the relationship
                                                > > between you and the mother kundalini whose have been awakened by the power of
                                                > > shri mataji...
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > ________________________________
                                                > > De : Noe Fosso Kamga <nfossokamga@>
                                                > > À : talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                > > Envoyé le : Mer 15 décembre 2010, 15h 06min 45s
                                                > > Objet : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > Hi, my name is Fosso Kamga Noe.I have been a sahaja yogi since five years.I want
                                                > > here in this group, to talk about what I feel in sahaja yoga.I want to say what
                                                > > great bliss is the work doing by Shri mataji. and I hope, all of members of the
                                                > > group, will understand and share with me.
                                                > >
                                                >






                                              • Clive Bates
                                                You might find somebody extremely wise, maybe your servant, maybe your driver, maybe anyone and you’re amazed how such a person can be so wise because
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Feb 19, 2011
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  ''You might find somebody extremely wise, maybe your servant, maybe your driver, maybe anyone and you’re amazed how such a person can be so wise because maybe from his last life he has got it within him or he has gone into it and he found it. It’s not the state of one person. It’s not the property of one person, but it can belong to many of them. So the Sahaj Yogi is the one who has to have that wisdom. Why are you doing this? What is the need to do it? They don’t have to ask any questions. They just don’t do wrong. They just don’t do wrong things. They’re always on the right path. That is the sign of the Sahaj Yogi, I believe, and which is the blessing of the Goddess. If there is the power of the Goddess working in you, you’ll have the wisdom to work it out.''
                                                  Navaratri Puja 2002
                                                  H.H. SHRI MATA JI NIRMALA DEVI


                                                  From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                                  To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Sunday, 20 February, 2011 0:39:38
                                                  Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                                   

                                                  1985-03

                                                   

                                                  "There is no need for any leader to tell you, there is no need for any ashram fellow to tell you, there is no need for anyone to tell you. It is you who is a realised soul, you are your own master, you are your own Guru. Imagine you are all gurus, great gurus and Sadgurus, respected saints, where all the angels have to shower you with flowers. Think of it! And here you are, bumptiously giving lectures, talking bumptiously. Very embarrassing –even for the deities. They do not know what to do, whether to garland you or to shut your mouth! Here you are, in such a great position that you have got realisation. That is the only thing you have to accept, is the beauty of this great Yoga, that you just enlighten your own powers which are on these seven chakras." ( H.H. SHRI MATA JI NIRMALA DEVI )




                                                  From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                                  To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Sunday, 20 February, 2011 0:38:50
                                                  Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                                   

                                                  Actually it's wrong of me to say that the attention goes fully into the heart, it is more like that the attention, one's awareness is from Sahasrara, and it one's view on everything actually feels like it is coming from there, complete peaceful detachment and awareness all at once, wherein one still goes about dong what is necessary to ensure the external and internal conditions are right for the sustainance of that state of  knowing one's self as one with everything, through direct experience and not thought.

                                                  I suppose this is why Shri Mataji said that the qulities of the heart chakra constitutes the centre of the sahasrara.

                                                  God is Love and Truth.... and light ~(:-))




                                                  From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                                  To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Sunday, 20 February, 2011 0:01:18
                                                  Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                                   

                                                  Ah, that's so great....

                                                  The vibrations are only felt because of the physical part of us, it shows that the central nervous system is being sufficiently nourished to ensure a healthy  body, mind, and emotions. When the Sahasrara opens fully there is no mental identity with the body it appears as distinctly seperate from the conciousness and their is no sensation of the nerves or anything felt, all the physical operates autonomously and unconciously....awareness is fully in the heart at that point and one is only the witness...no attachment, no 'other', no 'I', and no reaction, no feeling of want of loss, just pure unconditional awareness of being, relief, completeness, without those concepts coming into the attention, or any geting all emotional about it..it's a precious state of being...keep on undoing those bindings on the heart, with Love...I believe that that is what everyone, conciously and unconciously, are really looking for in Life...unfortunately there are many who fall into despair when they should be forgiving.

                                                  I will keep on fighting those 'demons' so that others can get there too and peace can come on earth...

                                                  Whenever I have worshipped 'Shri Mataji' it has always been with the complete understanding that the person sitting infront of me is merely trying to represent to us the autonomy of the forces of nature, by characterising them in such a manner that the autonmous nervous system gets a chance to do it's thing, devoid of the demands upon the nervous system caused by chaotic thinking and emotions...it's a technique that works, that's all....

                                                  More blessed still are those who no longer need techniques. This has always been what that lady who knew herself and the world well enough to embark on a project to make it easier for people to realise their SELF  has always wanted.

                                                  I mentioned the negativity and suffering in the world because it is happening and it is not necessary if there is an easier way to satisfy and negate our animalisitc behaviour...evolution is at a point where people have to conciously make the right choices if the human species is not going to succumb to self-destruction....so what I meant was, all the negativity in the group is like a training ground to make us resilient and able to prove to people that a realised soul can go through anything, thereby giving encouragement to those who find themselves in the terrible situations around the world, that, Yes, it is best to listen to that 'still and small voice' within whenit cries out for justice, but to achieve that justice and equality of recognition we first need to be something ourselves.

                                                  All have to start from somewhere and grow, so techniques and concepts are useful to have around for those who need them.

                                                  For one who enjoys words like I do the extract below was a great for clarifying that relationship we feel in being identified exclusively with our SELF while symultaneously acting out our daily lives in innocence.

                                                  BODHA ATMAN (...where "I am" is deeply established in the soul as Love.

                                                  CHAPTER XXXII. - Mahâpurânam S'rî Mad Devî Bhâgavatam by Maharsi Veda Vyâsa

                                                   

                                                  1-50. The Devî said:--"Hear, ye Immortals! My words with attention, that I am now going to speak to you, hearing which will enable the Jîvas to realise My Essence. Before the creation, I, only I, existed; nothing else was existent then. My Real Self is known by the names Chit, Sambit (Intelligence), Para Brahma and others. My Âtman is beyond mind, beyond thought, beyond any name or mark, without any parallel, and beyond birth, death or any other change or transformation. My Self has one inherent power called Mâyâ. This Mâyâ is not existent, nor non-existent, nor can it be called both. This unspeakable substance Mâyâ always exists (till the final emancipation or Moksha).

                                                   

                                                  Mâyâ can be destroyed by Brahmna Jñâna; so it can not be called existent, again if Mâyâ does not exist, the practical world catinot exist. So it cannot be called non-existent. Of course it cannot be called both, for it would involve contradictions. This Mâyâ (without beginning but with end at the time of Moksha) naturally arises as heat comes out of fire, as the rays come out of the Sun and as the cooling rays come out of the Moon. Just as all the Karmas of the Jîvas dissolve in deep sleep (S'usupti), so at the time of Pralaya or the General Dissolution, the Karmas of the Jîvas, the Jîvas and Time all become merged, in one uniform mass in this great Mâyâ. United with My S'aktî, I am the Cause of this world; this S'aktî has this defect that it has the power of hiding Me, its Originator.

                                                   

                                                  I am Nirguna. And when I am united with my S'aktî, Mâyâ, 1 become Saguns, the Great Cause of this world. This Mâyâ is divided into two, Vidyâ and Avidyâ. Avidyâ Mâyâ hides Me; whereas Vidyâ Mâyâ does not. Avidyâ creates whereas Vidyâ Mâyâ liberates.

                                                   

                                                  Mâyâ united with Chaitanya (Intelligence), i. e., Chidâbhâsa is the efficient cause of this Universe; whereas Mâyâ reduced to and united with five original elements is the material Cause of the Universe. Some call this Mâyâ tapas; some call Her inert, material; some call Her knowledge; some call Her Mâyâ, Pradhâna, Prakriti, Ajâ (unborn) and sonic others call Her S'aktî. The S'aiva authors call Her Vimars'a and the other Vedântists call Her Avidyâ; in short, this Mâyâ is in the heads of all the Pundits. This Mâyâ is called various in the Nigamas.

                                                  p. 738

                                                   

                                                  That which is seen is inert; for this reason Mâyâ is Jada (inert) and as the knowledge it conveys is destroyed, it is false. Chaitanya (Intelligence) is not seen; if It were seen, it would have been Jada. Chaitanya is self-luminous; not illumined by any other source. Were It so, Its Enlightener would have to be illumined by some other. thing and so the fallacy of Anavasthâ creeps in (an endless series of causes and effects). Again one thing cannot be the actor and the thing, acted upon (being contrary to each other); so Chaitanya cannot be illumined by itself. So It is Self-luminous; and it illumines Sun, Moon, etc., as a lamp is self-luminous and illumines other objects. So, O Mountain! This My Intelligence is established as eternal and everlasting. The waking, dreaming and deep sleep states do not remain constant but the sense of "I" remains the same, whether in waking, dreaming or deep sleep state; its anomaly is never felt. (The Bauddhas say that) The sense of ntelligence, Jñâna, is also not, felt; there in the absence of it; so what is existent is also temporarily existent. But (it can then be argued that) then the Witness by which that absence is sensed, that Intelligence, in the shape of the Witness, is eternal. So the Pundits of all the reasonable S'âstras declare that Samvit (Intelligence) is Eternal and it is Blissful the fountain of all love. Never the Jîvas or embodied souls feel "I am not"; but "I am" this feeling is deeply established in the soul as Love.

                                                   

                                                  Thus it is clearly evident that I am quite Separate from anything else which are all false. Also I am one continuous (no interval or separation existing within Me). Again Jñâna is not the Dharma (the natural quality) of Âtman but it is of the very nature of Âtman. If Jñâna ware the Dharma of Âtman, then Jñâna would have been material; so Jñâna is immaterial. If (for argument's sake) Jñâna be denominated as material, that cannot be. For Jñâna is of the nature of Intelligence and Âtman is of the the nature of Intelligence. Intelligence has not the attribute of being Dharma. Here the thing Chit is not different from its quality (Chit). So Âtman is always of the nature of Jñâna and happiness; Its nature is Truth; It is always Full, unattached and void of duality. This Âtman again, united with Mâyâ, composed of desires and Karmas, wants to create, due to the want of discrimination, the twenty-four tattvas, according to the previous Samskâras (tendencies), time and Karma. O Mountain! The re-awakening after Pralaya Susupti is not done with Buddhi (for then Buddhi is not at all manifested). So this creation is said to be effected without any Buddhi (proper intelligence). O Chief of the Immovables! The Tattva (Reality) that I have spoken to you is most excellent and it is my Extraordinary Form merely. In the Vedas it is known as Avyâkrita (unmodified), Avyakta (unmanifested)

                                                  p. 709

                                                   

                                                  Mâyâ S'abala (divided into various parts) and so forth. In all tlkc S'âstras, it is stated to be the Cause of all causes, the Primeval Tattva and Sachchidlinanda Vigraba. Where all the Karmas are solidified and where Ichchâ S'aktî, (will), Jñâna S'aktî (intelligence) and Kriyâ S'aktî (action) all are melted in one, that is called the Mantra Hrîm, that is the first Tattva. From this comes out Âkâsa, having the property of sound, thence Vâyu (air) with "touch" property; then fire with form, then water having "Rasa" property; and lastly the earth having the quality "smell." The Pundits say that the "sound" is the only quality of Âkâsa; air has two qualities viz., sound and touch, fire has three qualities sound, touch, form; water has four qualities sound, touch, form, taste; and the earth has five qualities sound, touch, form, taste and smell, Out of these five original elements, the allpervading, Sûtra (string or thread) arose. This Sûtrâtman (soul) is called the "Linga Deha," comprising within itself all the Prânas; this is the subtle body of the Paramâtman. And what is said in the previous lines as Avyakta or Unmainfested and in which the Seed of the World is involved and whence the Linga Deha has sprung, that is called the Causal body (Kârana body) of the Paramâtman. The five original elements (Apañchikrita called the five Tan Mâtrâs) being created, next by the Pañchîkarana process, the gross elements are created. The process is now being stated:--O Girijâ! Each of the five original elements is divided into two parts; one part of each of which is subdivided into four parts. This fourth part of each is united with the half of four other elements different from it and thus each gross element is formed. By these five gross elements, the Cosmic (Virât) body is formed and this is called the Gross Body of the God. Jñânendriyas (the organs of knowledge) arise from Sattva Gunas of each of these five elements. Again the Sattva Gunas of each of the Jñânendriyas united become the Antah Karanâni. This Antah karana is of four kinds, according as its functions vary. When it is engaged in forming Sankalpas, resolves, and Vikalpas (doubts) it is called "mind." When it is free from doubts and when it arrives at the decisive conclusion, it is called "Chitta"; and when it rests simply on itself in the shape of the feeling "I", it is called Ahamkâra. From the Rajo Guna of each of the five elements arises Vâk (speech), Pâni (hands) Pâda (feet), Pâyu (Anus) and Upastha (organs of generation). Again their Rajo parts united give rise to the five Prânas (Prâna, Apâna, Samâna, Udâna and Vyâna) the Prâna Vayu resides in the heart; Apâna Vayu in the Arms; Samâna Vayu resides in the Navel; Udâna Vayu rasides in the Throat; and the Vyâna Vâyu resides, pervading all over the body. My subtle body (Linga Deha) arises from the union of the five

                                                  p. 710

                                                   

                                                  Jñânendriyas, the five Karmendriyas (organs of action), the five Pranas and the mind and Buddhi, these seventeen elements. And the Prakriti that resides there is divided into two parts; one is pure (Suddha Satbva) Mâyâ and the other is the impure Mâyâ or Avidyâ united with the Gunas. By Mâyâ is meant She, who, without concealing Her refugees, protects them. When the Supreme Self is reflected on this S'uddha Sattva, Mâyâ, He is called Îs'vara. This Saddha Mâyâ does not conceal Brahma, its receptacle; therefore She knows the All-pervading Brahma and She is omniscient, omnipotent, the Lady of all and confors favours and blessings on all. When the Supreme Self is reflected on the Impure Mâyâ or Avidyâ, He is called Jîva. This Avidyâ conceals Brahma, Whose nature is Happiness; therefore this Jîva is the source of all miseries. Both Îs'vara and Jîva have, by the influence of Vidyâ and Avidyâ three bodies and three names. When the Jîva lives in his causal body, he is named Prâjna; when he lives in subtle body he is known as Taijasa; while he has the gross body, he is called Vis'va. So when Îs'vara is in His causal body, he is denominated Îs'a; when He is in His subtle body, he is known as Sûtra; and when He is in His groqs body, He is known as Virât.

                                                   

                                                  The Jîva glories in having three (as above-mentioned) kinds of differentiated bodies and Îs'vara glories in having three (as above-mentioned) kinds of cosmic bodies. Thus Îs'vara is the Lord of all and though He feels Himself always happy and satisfied, yet to favour the Jîvas and to give them liberation (Moksa) He has created various sorts of worldly things for their Bhogas (enjoyments). This Îs'vara creates all the Universe, impelled by My Brahma S'aktî. I am of the nature of Brahma; and Îs'vara in conceived in Me as a snake is imagined in a rope. Therefore Îs'vara has to remain dependent on My S'akti.

                                                   

                                                  Here ends the Thirty-second Chapter of the Seventh Book on Self-realization,  in the Mahâpurnam S'rî Mad Devî Bhâgavatam, of 18,000 verses, by Maharsi Veda Vyâsa.

                                                   



                                                  From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                                  To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Saturday, 19 February, 2011 23:01:58
                                                  Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                                   

                                                  HI Clive,
                                                   
                                                  Yes, ultimately we are talking the same thing.  There are differences.  I know Shri Mataji was my spiritual teacher for many years, but I no longer worship her nor have the understanding of it. Everything melts in ONENESS and to worship is to separate, and to put one above or below another person is still illusive.  What do incarnations represent other than our higher self?  The Son of man you can call Christ but it is all of us as ONE.   During these past two years, my transformation has been really incredible to such an experience where I pray and I feel like my own spirit is praying to itself..there is no separation anymore.  It doesn't seem as difficult as it was but it does take a lot.
                                                  You have not opened any wounds because I am dealing with my emotions and thoughts as they come.  There is nothing I hide from myself anymore.  Being aware is precisely being in touch with everything that is happening within.  If an emotion comes up, I will treat it like I would a small child--with love and understanding and then release it.  
                                                  I dont care what Sahaja Yogies think of me, specially because if they think negative, it is from their own perception which has much to do with them and not me.  I no longer care to return to the group because I dont need to.  My intuitive self is incredible and each one of us has it.  Intuition goes beyond vibrations and if you are in touch with it, it will answer all your questions.  There are many many loving people in the world and the entire world is our family.
                                                  You asked about bad or evil.  Dont fixate yourself on it.  The only way to transform this world is by fully being YOU /LOVE.  You will begin to see everyone as complete, even the people who havent felt complete.  By feeling their complete self, they will begin to feel their own and transform.  The body gets sick because we identify with it, and with the illness...whatever we identify with is our reality.  If  you identify with "the evil of the world" then you are not helping to disolve it.  I believe in what the Toltecs said that the big maya is actually the illusion that there is good against evil---this is so not true---it is just truth and lies and evil is not evil..it is lies...when we overcome our own lies there is only truth.  We cannot change anyone else..but when we are fully LOVE then we spread it everywhere--  spread it around the world just by sending it and you dont even need to give a bhandhan, just send it out.    I had to face my reactions to false gurus.  I have friends who read Osho,and other gurus and it is fine with me, whoever is ready is getting realized, not by what they read but by their own spirit.  I love all my friends and I really respect whatever they resonate with.  Whatever we react to we create an obstacle to TRUTH..so allow things to be as they are and fully accept it unless you can change it.  But trust me that it is easier to change ourselves than it is to change any one else.
                                                  I am still experimenting and undoing--- why do I feel vibrations or energy when I dont see Shri Mataji as more than a guru?  when I am no longer in SY?  are these conditioned feelings?  I will experiment ..because there is something aware of those feelings..and those feelings are not me but are felt...the total background when I can no longer identify with something other than just BEING in total silent presence...that is Ultimate.
                                                  Love and light
                                                   
                                                   

                                                  --- On Sat, 2/19/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                                                  From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                                  Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                                  To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Received: Saturday, February 19, 2011, 6:29 PM

                                                   
                                                  Have you realised yet that we are both saying the same thing, just using different words, in a different way ? (:-))

                                                  Sorry if I have opened old wounds for you.

                                                  Sahaja Yoga , as they are written here, is just two words...

                                                  What it means is a different story.

                                                  The meaning of that saying amongst Muslims comes from the fact that we are all born innocent, helpless, at the mercy of things beyond our control, in effect, forcefully surrendered...

                                                  And yet in that state, so long as we are well taken care of  we are completely free, more than we ever will be in ourlives, because we have no thought or expectatin of anything, all is a wonderful joygiving mystery, so long as we are taken care of...

                                                  Kundalini is our Mother inside us, this you know .... so why worry about what other's think ?! You do so because you don't want to offend anyone...but sometimes you have to offend in order to show the truth isn't it...!!!

                                                  I too was scorned by people for leaving my angry caught up Sahaj marriage...so, they would never understand until it happens to them...and I pray it never does because it's not nice...

                                                  I eneded up marrying someone wjom I chose for myself, and still it was horrendous, for a long time, and guess what,  I realised we were both to blame,and if I changed myself things would get better...now we are like two peas in pod enjoying, especially after knowing how foolish we had both been before...people only fight when they scared....one who knows their self is automatically never scared.

                                                  So now I am able to be one with my SELF, and am no longer afraid, and can go anywhere with confidence, and Love in my heart.

                                                  Jai Shri Mataji

                                                  P.S. EVERYTHING is 'MahaMaya' , it simply means 'Great Mystery'...even my cat is 'Maha Maya'

                                                  As Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi Shrivastava herself once said...'Even this stone is God, the thing is it can't REALISE it'...it's inconcievable, but felt as Love and Truth by human beings who's desire is pure and peaceful.

                                                  Life is what one makes it, within the boundaries of nature.

                                                  Sorry for your troubles...one can only know it if one has walked in those shoes...I wouyld not wish that anyone should walk in mine.

                                                  with Love, always.



                                                  From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                                  To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Saturday, 19 February, 2011 7:42:29
                                                  Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                                   
                                                  Do you know what Muslims believe?  That all are born to Islam.  Meaning all are born in submission to God.  This is as true as your statement.  Does it mean we have to separate each other and fear each other for not being in THAT?  Just so you know---  I was as deep as anyone can get in Sahaja Yoga for many many years.  The reason I left is because of other's fear of my divorce--they were scared that SY would get a bad name---that is how fearful people are in there! and uncompassionate as a result.. but my years there I felt vibrations with ease, and I have been a very clear person--- people know me as a very pure soul.  I am not against SY.  I feel that people should evolve past feeling vibrations, past fears of others, past separation of groups and judgement of each other.  You dont see it, but you are conditioned into group belief aside from vibrations.  And vibrations change all the time.  You can feel one person now and tomorrow feel him or her again and it might change---it will change for sure all the time...but many judge them from that moment they check.  There is a lot of fears in the group.  It is important to note them down when you introspect and overcome them.  I am not here to condemn but to really open your eyes if possible.  I said it before---Mahamaya is maya, but your spirit will never delude you---NEVER.  All is God and your experience of reality and others completely reflects from you.  Without you, you wouldnt see others nor this world as you see them...without YOU you would not feel what you feel, nor realize what you realize.  No one can transform you but your self by your own desire and will and readiness (even Shri Mataji says this!).  And this will happen under any circumstances which has no name, or organization or religion or meditation group.  Spirit even has a name that we gave it, but it still IS whether we name it or not...so you can call people or self realization as Sahaja yoga or sahaja yogies or  what you like, it doesnt mean that is what they are, that is what you think they are by your belief--and beliefs are man made.  

                                                  --- On Sat, 2/19/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                                                  From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                                  Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                                  To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Received: Saturday, February 19, 2011, 12:02 AM

                                                   
                                                  ...in that respect, anyone who is self-realised is a Sahaja Yogi; someone in the sate of Yoga, which is something that happens spontaneously through the opening of the Sahasrara.






                                                  From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                                  To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 22:15:37
                                                  Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                                   
                                                  Someone is only 'in Sahaja Yoga' if they are aware of themselves and remain in that awareness.

                                                  Sahaja Yoga is a state of BEING, that's why ot is called pure religion...Religion itself is an process of introspection, something that is undertaken...again people use concepts to suti their awareness of the world and their place in it.

                                                  Attempts at organising religion, the aspiration, is also being religious, until that is the spontanaity is lost amidst dogmatism born of people who do not know their SELF and so do not know true freedom.



                                                  From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                                  To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 21:54:17
                                                  Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                                   
                                                  In other words, Sahaja Yoga has NOTHING to do with beingness and existance..it is for some, a way to get to  THEIR OWN awareness but it is not awareness itself nor beingness itself.  It is still a lable and an illusion, and so the same would be any Guru...a finger pointing at the moon is not the moon.  All ends up in "I AM"  God is also "I AM" and so is each of us..meaning all is the same, us, incarnations,all the same! " I AM" is the basis and that can happen to anyone at any point in time when one is ready by any means, not just Sahaja Yoga.  I have met very mature saintly people who havent even heard of Sahaja Yoga. 

                                                  --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...> wrote:

                                                  From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                                  Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                                  To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 9:46 PM

                                                   

                                                  Yes...but are all BEINGS IN Sahaja yoga?  does beingness require that one should be a Sahaja Yogi?  Is existance without meaning without Sahaja Yoga? Sahaja Yoga is a teaching or the return to our selves, but we should graduate at some point, just like you do from school.  Become truly your own master and rely on your inner self.
                                                  --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                                                  From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                                  Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                                  To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 8:48 PM

                                                   
                                                  Sahaja Yoga is a state of being, Shri Mataji has always taught from that perspective...hence the essence of absloute truth being in all things. It's only the mind that interprets things wrongly.



                                                  From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                                  To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 19:19:59
                                                  Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                                   
                                                   The main thing I have learned is that one is ONE within spirit and and even kundalini is part of creation.  Vibrations I have found are not that much above thinking..that if you keep relying on such, you will be stuck in a web of negative and positive which is duality...it doesn not make you go that much higher than that.  Only connecting to the spirit totally without any distractions of the outside will one find the most powerful energy which is spirit and that is who we are.  It is unfair to claim that ex-members are not true seekers. All are spirit and all will get there! There are no chose ones.  All are chosen and all will arrive sooner or later because God is everyone of us non excluded!!!
                                                   I felt stuck after a while of not seeing any improvements on me or my sahaj siblings...all were so distracted trying to organize the group.  I no longer felt I was "evolving" at that slow pace.  Eventually we have to unplug from all group systems and unite as one...spirit doesnt know any name such as sahaja yoga..it is still creation...while spirit observes many things are created.  It is really true that when in a group one goes with the 'flock" and does not really take responsability to get rid of fears etc.   I found that I was afraid to leave sahaja yoga scared that I would no longer feel vibrations...well guess what....I feel an amazing energy which is my spirit and incredible intuition much more powerful than I ever did before.   ALl is a part of evolution and so was SY for me..but that is not the ultimate.  There are no rights and wrongs and no mistakes in life...nothing I regret....but I am not staying in the fears of group conditionings.  I wish all would see how many conditionings you have aquired in SY too...and how much you fear to even hug your parents who are not in sahaja yoga because they have negativity?  isnt this fear?  how can your heart be open with that kind of fear?  if we separate we are not being in spirit...anything that separates is ego!  non-sahaja yogies vs sahaja yogies IS separation...and that fear will limit you.  It is your choice.  I love the entire world and feel all in me and me in all. 

                                                  --- On Fri, 1/28/11, talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                                  From: talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com>
                                                  Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                                  To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Received: Friday, January 28, 2011, 7:00 AM

                                                   

                                                  Hey
                                                  still alive and kicking...
                                                  check out www.shri-mataji.org and www.sahajayogafacs.info

                                                  cheers
                                                  s.

                                                  --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, "victorysnear" <victorysnear@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > I know it's been a very hard job for all those wonderful ex sahaja yogis to keep this place working. You've given so much to others here! I'll never thank you enough.
                                                  > Even though, I think time has come to change this place. Make a Blog out of it. Keep the memory of your past for other victims of this dreadful cult and don't let this place fall into the hands of sy cult. I know each of you has your own busy life, you're so clever and bright, interested in your families, in culture and in fun too. You have moved on, I know. You deserve it. But the work you've done must be kept for others until sy disapears, it won't be a long time, victory's near...
                                                  > My regards to TASY group
                                                  > Vic
                                                  >
                                                  > --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, isaac iba <iba22000@> wrote:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > hi noé, i'm too here in this group to talk about my deeply experiences with
                                                  > > sahaja yoga ,i think we are so lucky to be a sahaja yogi ,but a good because
                                                  > > many persons whose was abuse with a false or bad sahaja yogi have now a bad
                                                  > > experience about sahaja yoga and some of them who wasn't a true seekers feel
                                                  > > deception but i want to encourage you to be sincere with the relationship
                                                  > > between you and the mother kundalini whose have been awakened by the power of
                                                  > > shri mataji...
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > ________________________________
                                                  > > De : Noe Fosso Kamga <nfossokamga@>
                                                  > > À : talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > > Envoyé le : Mer 15 décembre 2010, 15h 06min 45s
                                                  > > Objet : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Hi, my name is Fosso Kamga Noe.I have been a sahaja yogi since five years.I want
                                                  > > here in this group, to talk about what I feel in sahaja yoga.I want to say what
                                                  > > great bliss is the work doing by Shri mataji. and I hope, all of members of the
                                                  > > group, will understand and share with me.
                                                  > >
                                                  >






                                                • Yogini Kumar
                                                  Hi Clive,   Thank you for your quotes and comments.  demons is nothing but ego and ego is nothing but lies.  The only hell there is is the resistance to
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Feb 19, 2011
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    Hi Clive,
                                                     
                                                    Thank you for your quotes and comments.  "demons" is nothing but ego and ego is nothing but lies.  The only hell there is is the resistance to what is whether it shows it self as resistance to the outside or inside--it is all within.  Whatever we resist persists.  So many people keep fighting and resisting.  Becoming a warrior would mean with total open heart and not with fear or with hate.  I wanted to say one more thing, Clive, and that is that many yogies throught the years have hidden "life situations" from the general public because they wanted to glamourize Sahaja Yoga.  Things happened--people got ill, people died,attacked each other, still some caught in terror attacks or natural disasters, but only the "miracles" were reported. As if only a few are protected...if it was so, the entire world would not be here!   Is this all, not denial of life as fear?  So what if something happens, this is life and it was created in such a way for a reason.  One has a choice to see life as perfect as it is, or imperfect in everything.  I prefer to see it as perfect, that even so called mistakes have their own meaning in the web of maya--a door way out of maya.   That life and its dark aspects are there to show us the way to self love and self mastery.  That without the duality there is no plot for this creation, and yet we are battling with inner resistance, the very story that all of us plotted together as co-creators.  Didnt then we create "hell" just from our own resistance to life?  The inner state of mankind is "hell" because of its lack of understanding and illusive idea of separation to source, and the resistance to acceptance of ourselves through awareness?  If we truly want to transform ourselves we have to truly see our inner state without denial and resistance to our feelings and thoughts...embrace it all without resistance, then shed light to it to melt it away with loving awareness.  We might not see that we have the capacity to create our surroundings, but we do just by the way we are aware within.  How we react we attract that energy from within on the outside.  It is really really powerful energy.  Whatever we are facing, whomever we meet, it is a reflection of our inner state.  And all that we experience is loving messages and so are the people that come to us--they will tell us exactly what we need to hear to overcome certain things---we are constantly teaching and learning from each other.  

                                                    --- On Sun, 2/20/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                                                    From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                                    Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                                    To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Received: Sunday, February 20, 2011, 12:01 AM

                                                     
                                                    Ah, that's so great....

                                                    The vibrations are only felt because of the physical part of us, it shows that the central nervous system is being sufficiently nourished to ensure a healthy  body, mind, and emotions. When the Sahasrara opens fully there is no mental identity with the body it appears as distinctly seperate from the conciousness and their is no sensation of the nerves or anything felt, all the physical operates autonomously and unconciously....awareness is fully in the heart at that point and one is only the witness...no attachment, no 'other', no 'I', and no reaction, no feeling of want of loss, just pure unconditional awareness of being, relief, completeness, without those concepts coming into the attention, or any geting all emotional about it..it's a precious state of being...keep on undoing those bindings on the heart, with Love...I believe that that is what everyone, conciously and unconciously, are really looking for in Life...unfortunately there are many who fall into despair when they should be forgiving.

                                                    I will keep on fighting those 'demons' so that others can get there too and peace can come on earth...

                                                    Whenever I have worshipped 'Shri Mataji' it has always been with the complete understanding that the person sitting infront of me is merely trying to represent to us the autonomy of the forces of nature, by characterising them in such a manner that the autonmous nervous system gets a chance to do it's thing, devoid of the demands upon the nervous system caused by chaotic thinking and emotions...it's a technique that works, that's all....

                                                    More blessed still are those who no longer need techniques. This has always been what that lady who knew herself and the world well enough to embark on a project to make it easier for people to realise their SELF  has always wanted.

                                                    I mentioned the negativity and suffering in the world because it is happening and it is not necessary if there is an easier way to satisfy and negate our animalisitc behaviour...evolution is at a point where people have to conciously make the right choices if the human species is not going to succumb to self-destruction....so what I meant was, all the negativity in the group is like a training ground to make us resilient and able to prove to people that a realised soul can go through anything, thereby giving encouragement to those who find themselves in the terrible situations around the world, that, Yes, it is best to listen to that 'still and small voice' within whenit cries out for justice, but to achieve that justice and equality of recognition we first need to be something ourselves.

                                                    All have to start from somewhere and grow, so techniques and concepts are useful to have around for those who need them.

                                                    For one who enjoys words like I do the extract below was a great for clarifying that relationship we feel in being identified exclusively with our SELF while symultaneously acting out our daily lives in innocence.

                                                    BODHA ATMAN (...where "I am" is deeply established in the soul as Love.

                                                    CHAPTER XXXII. - Mahâpurânam S'rî Mad Devî Bhâgavatam by Maharsi Veda Vyâsa
                                                     
                                                    1-50. The Devî said:--"Hear, ye Immortals! My words with attention, that I am now going to speak to you, hearing which will enable the Jîvas to realise My Essence. Before the creation, I, only I, existed; nothing else was existent then. My Real Self is known by the names Chit, Sambit (Intelligence), Para Brahma and others. My Âtman is beyond mind, beyond thought, beyond any name or mark, without any parallel, and beyond birth, death or any other change or transformation. My Self has one inherent power called Mâyâ. This Mâyâ is not existent, nor non-existent, nor can it be called both. This unspeakable substance Mâyâ always exists (till the final emancipation or Moksha).
                                                     
                                                    Mâyâ can be destroyed by Brahmna Jñâna; so it can not be called existent, again if Mâyâ does not exist, the practical world catinot exist. So it cannot be called non-existent. Of course it cannot be called both, for it would involve contradictions. This Mâyâ (without beginning but with end at the time of Moksha) naturally arises as heat comes out of fire, as the rays come out of the Sun and as the cooling rays come out of the Moon. Just as all the Karmas of the Jîvas dissolve in deep sleep (S'usupti), so at the time of Pralaya or the General Dissolution, the Karmas of the Jîvas, the Jîvas and Time all become merged, in one uniform mass in this great Mâyâ. United with My S'aktî, I am the Cause of this world; this S'aktî has this defect that it has the power of hiding Me, its Originator.
                                                     
                                                    I am Nirguna. And when I am united with my S'aktî, Mâyâ, 1 become Saguns, the Great Cause of this world. This Mâyâ is divided into two, Vidyâ and Avidyâ. Avidyâ Mâyâ hides Me; whereas Vidyâ Mâyâ does not. Avidyâ creates whereas Vidyâ Mâyâ liberates.
                                                     
                                                    Mâyâ united with Chaitanya (Intelligence), i. e., Chidâbhâsa is the efficient cause of this Universe; whereas Mâyâ reduced to and united with five original elements is the material Cause of the Universe. Some call this Mâyâ tapas; some call Her inert, material; some call Her knowledge; some call Her Mâyâ, Pradhâna, Prakriti, Ajâ (unborn) and sonic others call Her S'aktî. The S'aiva authors call Her Vimars'a and the other Vedântists call Her Avidyâ; in short, this Mâyâ is in the heads of all the Pundits. This Mâyâ is called various in the Nigamas.
                                                    p. 738
                                                     
                                                    That which is seen is inert; for this reason Mâyâ is Jada (inert) and as the knowledge it conveys is destroyed, it is false. Chaitanya (Intelligence) is not seen; if It were seen, it would have been Jada. Chaitanya is self-luminous; not illumined by any other source. Were It so, Its Enlightener would have to be illumined by some other. thing and so the fallacy of Anavasthâ creeps in (an endless series of causes and effects). Again one thing cannot be the actor and the thing, acted upon (being contrary to each other); so Chaitanya cannot be illumined by itself. So It is Self-luminous; and it illumines Sun, Moon, etc., as a lamp is self-luminous and illumines other objects. So, O Mountain! This My Intelligence is established as eternal and everlasting. The waking, dreaming and deep sleep states do not remain constant but the sense of "I" remains the same, whether in waking, dreaming or deep sleep state; its anomaly is never felt. (The Bauddhas say that) The sense of ntelligence, Jñâna, is also not, felt; there in the absence of it; so what is existent is also temporarily existent. But (it can then be argued that) then the Witness by which that absence is sensed, that Intelligence, in the shape of the Witness, is eternal. So the Pundits of all the reasonable S'âstras declare that Samvit (Intelligence) is Eternal and it is Blissful the fountain of all love. Never the Jîvas or embodied souls feel "I am not"; but "I am" this feeling is deeply established in the soul as Love.
                                                     
                                                    Thus it is clearly evident that I am quite Separate from anything else which are all false. Also I am one continuous (no interval or separation existing within Me). Again Jñâna is not the Dharma (the natural quality) of Âtman but it is of the very nature of Âtman. If Jñâna ware the Dharma of Âtman, then Jñâna would have been material; so Jñâna is immaterial. If (for argument's sake) Jñâna be denominated as material, that cannot be. For Jñâna is of the nature of Intelligence and Âtman is of the the nature of Intelligence. Intelligence has not the attribute of being Dharma. Here the thing Chit is not different from its quality (Chit). So Âtman is always of the nature of Jñâna and happiness; Its nature is Truth; It is always Full, unattached and void of duality. This Âtman again, united with Mâyâ, composed of desires and Karmas, wants to create, due to the want of discrimination, the twenty-four tattvas, according to the previous Samskâras (tendencies), time and Karma. O Mountain! The re-awakening after Pralaya Susupti is not done with Buddhi (for then Buddhi is not at all manifested). So this creation is said to be effected without any Buddhi (proper intelligence). O Chief of the Immovables! The Tattva (Reality) that I have spoken to you is most excellent and it is my Extraordinary Form merely. In the Vedas it is known as Avyâkrita (unmodified), Avyakta (unmanifested)
                                                    p. 709
                                                     
                                                    Mâyâ S'abala (divided into various parts) and so forth. In all tlkc S'âstras, it is stated to be the Cause of all causes, the Primeval Tattva and Sachchidlinanda Vigraba. Where all the Karmas are solidified and where Ichchâ S'aktî, (will), Jñâna S'aktî (intelligence) and Kriyâ S'aktî (action) all are melted in one, that is called the Mantra Hrîm, that is the first Tattva. From this comes out Âkâsa, having the property of sound, thence Vâyu (air) with "touch" property; then fire with form, then water having "Rasa" property; and lastly the earth having the quality "smell." The Pundits say that the "sound" is the only quality of Âkâsa; air has two qualities viz., sound and touch, fire has three qualities sound, touch, form; water has four qualities sound, touch, form, taste; and the earth has five qualities sound, touch, form, taste and smell, Out of these five original elements, the allpervading, Sûtra (string or thread) arose. This Sûtrâtman (soul) is called the "Linga Deha," comprising within itself all the Prânas; this is the subtle body of the Paramâtman. And what is said in the previous lines as Avyakta or Unmainfested and in which the Seed of the World is involved and whence the Linga Deha has sprung, that is called the Causal body (Kârana body) of the Paramâtman. The five original elements (Apañchikrita called the five Tan Mâtrâs) being created, next by the Pañchîkarana process, the gross elements are created. The process is now being stated:--O Girijâ! Each of the five original elements is divided into two parts; one part of each of which is subdivided into four parts. This fourth part of each is united with the half of four other elements different from it and thus each gross element is formed. By these five gross elements, the Cosmic (Virât) body is formed and this is called the Gross Body of the God. Jñânendriyas (the organs of knowledge) arise from Sattva Gunas of each of these five elements. Again the Sattva Gunas of each of the Jñânendriyas united become the Antah Karanâni. This Antah karana is of four kinds, according as its functions vary. When it is engaged in forming Sankalpas, resolves, and Vikalpas (doubts) it is called "mind." When it is free from doubts and when it arrives at the decisive conclusion, it is called "Chitta"; and when it rests simply on itself in the shape of the feeling "I", it is called Ahamkâra. From the Rajo Guna of each of the five elements arises Vâk (speech), Pâni (hands) Pâda (feet), Pâyu (Anus) and Upastha (organs of generation). Again their Rajo parts united give rise to the five Prânas (Prâna, Apâna, Samâna, Udâna and Vyâna) the Prâna Vayu resides in the heart; Apâna Vayu in the Arms; Samâna Vayu resides in the Navel; Udâna Vayu rasides in the Throat; and the Vyâna Vâyu resides, pervading all over the body. My subtle body (Linga Deha) arises from the union of the five
                                                    p. 710
                                                     
                                                    Jñânendriyas, the five Karmendriyas (organs of action), the five Pranas and the mind and Buddhi, these seventeen elements. And the Prakriti that resides there is divided into two parts; one is pure (Suddha Satbva) Mâyâ and the other is the impure Mâyâ or Avidyâ united with the Gunas. By Mâyâ is meant She, who, without concealing Her refugees, protects them. When the Supreme Self is reflected on this S'uddha Sattva, Mâyâ, He is called Îs'vara. This Saddha Mâyâ does not conceal Brahma, its receptacle; therefore She knows the All-pervading Brahma and She is omniscient, omnipotent, the Lady of all and confors favours and blessings on all. When the Supreme Self is reflected on the Impure Mâyâ or Avidyâ, He is called Jîva. This Avidyâ conceals Brahma, Whose nature is Happiness; therefore this Jîva is the source of all miseries. Both Îs'vara and Jîva have, by the influence of Vidyâ and Avidyâ three bodies and three names. When the Jîva lives in his causal body, he is named Prâjna; when he lives in subtle body he is known as Taijasa; while he has the gross body, he is called Vis'va. So when Îs'vara is in His causal body, he is denominated Îs'a; when He is in His subtle body, he is known as Sûtra; and when He is in His groqs body, He is known as Virât.
                                                     
                                                    The Jîva glories in having three (as above-mentioned) kinds of differentiated bodies and Îs'vara glories in having three (as above-mentioned) kinds of cosmic bodies. Thus Îs'vara is the Lord of all and though He feels Himself always happy and satisfied, yet to favour the Jîvas and to give them liberation (Moksa) He has created various sorts of worldly things for their Bhogas (enjoyments). This Îs'vara creates all the Universe, impelled by My Brahma S'aktî. I am of the nature of Brahma; and Îs'vara in conceived in Me as a snake is imagined in a rope. Therefore Îs'vara has to remain dependent on My S'akti.
                                                     
                                                    Here ends the Thirty-second Chapter of the Seventh Book on Self-realization,  in the Mahâpurnam S'rî Mad Devî Bhâgavatam, of 18,000 verses, by Maharsi Veda Vyâsa.
                                                     


                                                    From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                                    To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Sent: Saturday, 19 February, 2011 23:01:58
                                                    Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                                     
                                                    HI Clive,
                                                     
                                                    Yes, ultimately we are talking the same thing.  There are differences.  I know Shri Mataji was my spiritual teacher for many years, but I no longer worship her nor have the understanding of it. Everything melts in ONENESS and to worship is to separate, and to put one above or below another person is still illusive.  What do incarnations represent other than our higher self?  The Son of man you can call Christ but it is all of us as ONE.   During these past two years, my transformation has been really incredible to such an experience where I pray and I feel like my own spirit is praying to itself..there is no separation anymore.  It doesn't seem as difficult as it was but it does take a lot.
                                                    You have not opened any wounds because I am dealing with my emotions and thoughts as they come.  There is nothing I hide from myself anymore.  Being aware is precisely being in touch with everything that is happening within.  If an emotion comes up, I will treat it like I would a small child--with love and understanding and then release it.  
                                                    I dont care what Sahaja Yogies think of me, specially because if they think negative, it is from their own perception which has much to do with them and not me.  I no longer care to return to the group because I dont need to.  My intuitive self is incredible and each one of us has it.  Intuition goes beyond vibrations and if you are in touch with it, it will answer all your questions.  There are many many loving people in the world and the entire world is our family.
                                                    You asked about bad or evil.  Dont fixate yourself on it.  The only way to transform this world is by fully being YOU /LOVE.  You will begin to see everyone as complete, even the people who havent felt complete.  By feeling their complete self, they will begin to feel their own and transform.  The body gets sick because we identify with it, and with the illness...whatever we identify with is our reality.  If  you identify with "the evil of the world" then you are not helping to disolve it.  I believe in what the Toltecs said that the big maya is actually the illusion that there is good against evil---this is so not true---it is just truth and lies and evil is not evil..it is lies...when we overcome our own lies there is only truth.  We cannot change anyone else..but when we are fully LOVE then we spread it everywhere--  spread it around the world just by sending it and you dont even need to give a bhandhan, just send it out.    I had to face my reactions to false gurus.  I have friends who read Osho,and other gurus and it is fine with me, whoever is ready is getting realized, not by what they read but by their own spirit.  I love all my friends and I really respect whatever they resonate with.  Whatever we react to we create an obstacle to TRUTH..so allow things to be as they are and fully accept it unless you can change it.  But trust me that it is easier to change ourselves than it is to change any one else.
                                                    I am still experimenting and undoing--- why do I feel vibrations or energy when I dont see Shri Mataji as more than a guru?  when I am no longer in SY?  are these conditioned feelings?  I will experiment ..because there is something aware of those feelings..and those feelings are not me but are felt...the total background when I can no longer identify with something other than just BEING in total silent presence...that is Ultimate.
                                                    Love and light
                                                     
                                                     

                                                    --- On Sat, 2/19/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                                                    From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                                    Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                                    To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Received: Saturday, February 19, 2011, 6:29 PM

                                                     
                                                    Have you realised yet that we are both saying the same thing, just using different words, in a different way ? (:-))

                                                    Sorry if I have opened old wounds for you.

                                                    Sahaja Yoga , as they are written here, is just two words...

                                                    What it means is a different story.

                                                    The meaning of that saying amongst Muslims comes from the fact that we are all born innocent, helpless, at the mercy of things beyond our control, in effect, forcefully surrendered...

                                                    And yet in that state, so long as we are well taken care of  we are completely free, more than we ever will be in ourlives, because we have no thought or expectatin of anything, all is a wonderful joygiving mystery, so long as we are taken care of...

                                                    Kundalini is our Mother inside us, this you know .... so why worry about what other's think ?! You do so because you don't want to offend anyone...but sometimes you have to offend in order to show the truth isn't it...!!!

                                                    I too was scorned by people for leaving my angry caught up Sahaj marriage...so, they would never understand until it happens to them...and I pray it never does because it's not nice...

                                                    I eneded up marrying someone wjom I chose for myself, and still it was horrendous, for a long time, and guess what,  I realised we were both to blame,and if I changed myself things would get better...now we are like two peas in pod enjoying, especially after knowing how foolish we had both been before...people only fight when they scared....one who knows their self is automatically never scared.

                                                    So now I am able to be one with my SELF, and am no longer afraid, and can go anywhere with confidence, and Love in my heart.

                                                    Jai Shri Mataji

                                                    P.S. EVERYTHING is 'MahaMaya' , it simply means 'Great Mystery'...even my cat is 'Maha Maya'

                                                    As Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi Shrivastava herself once said...'Even this stone is God, the thing is it can't REALISE it'...it's inconcievable, but felt as Love and Truth by human beings who's desire is pure and peaceful.

                                                    Life is what one makes it, within the boundaries of nature.

                                                    Sorry for your troubles...one can only know it if one has walked in those shoes...I wouyld not wish that anyone should walk in mine.

                                                    with Love, always.



                                                    From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                                    To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Sent: Saturday, 19 February, 2011 7:42:29
                                                    Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                                     
                                                    Do you know what Muslims believe?  That all are born to Islam.  Meaning all are born in submission to God.  This is as true as your statement.  Does it mean we have to separate each other and fear each other for not being in THAT?  Just so you know---  I was as deep as anyone can get in Sahaja Yoga for many many years.  The reason I left is because of other's fear of my divorce--they were scared that SY would get a bad name---that is how fearful people are in there! and uncompassionate as a result.. but my years there I felt vibrations with ease, and I have been a very clear person--- people know me as a very pure soul.  I am not against SY.  I feel that people should evolve past feeling vibrations, past fears of others, past separation of groups and judgement of each other.  You dont see it, but you are conditioned into group belief aside from vibrations.  And vibrations change all the time.  You can feel one person now and tomorrow feel him or her again and it might change---it will change for sure all the time...but many judge them from that moment they check.  There is a lot of fears in the group.  It is important to note them down when you introspect and overcome them.  I am not here to condemn but to really open your eyes if possible.  I said it before---Mahamaya is maya, but your spirit will never delude you---NEVER.  All is God and your experience of reality and others completely reflects from you.  Without you, you wouldnt see others nor this world as you see them...without YOU you would not feel what you feel, nor realize what you realize.  No one can transform you but your self by your own desire and will and readiness (even Shri Mataji says this!).  And this will happen under any circumstances which has no name, or organization or religion or meditation group.  Spirit even has a name that we gave it, but it still IS whether we name it or not...so you can call people or self realization as Sahaja yoga or sahaja yogies or  what you like, it doesnt mean that is what they are, that is what you think they are by your belief--and beliefs are man made.  

                                                    --- On Sat, 2/19/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                                                    From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                                    Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                                    To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Received: Saturday, February 19, 2011, 12:02 AM

                                                     
                                                    ...in that respect, anyone who is self-realised is a Sahaja Yogi; someone in the sate of Yoga, which is something that happens spontaneously through the opening of the Sahasrara.






                                                    From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                                    To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 22:15:37
                                                    Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                                     
                                                    Someone is only 'in Sahaja Yoga' if they are aware of themselves and remain in that awareness.

                                                    Sahaja Yoga is a state of BEING, that's why ot is called pure religion...Religion itself is an process of introspection, something that is undertaken...again people use concepts to suti their awareness of the world and their place in it.

                                                    Attempts at organising religion, the aspiration, is also being religious, until that is the spontanaity is lost amidst dogmatism born of people who do not know their SELF and so do not know true freedom.



                                                    From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                                    To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 21:54:17
                                                    Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                                     
                                                    In other words, Sahaja Yoga has NOTHING to do with beingness and existance..it is for some, a way to get to  THEIR OWN awareness but it is not awareness itself nor beingness itself.  It is still a lable and an illusion, and so the same would be any Guru...a finger pointing at the moon is not the moon.  All ends up in "I AM"  God is also "I AM" and so is each of us..meaning all is the same, us, incarnations,all the same! " I AM" is the basis and that can happen to anyone at any point in time when one is ready by any means, not just Sahaja Yoga.  I have met very mature saintly people who havent even heard of Sahaja Yoga. 

                                                    --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...> wrote:

                                                    From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                                    Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                                    To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 9:46 PM

                                                     

                                                    Yes...but are all BEINGS IN Sahaja yoga?  does beingness require that one should be a Sahaja Yogi?  Is existance without meaning without Sahaja Yoga? Sahaja Yoga is a teaching or the return to our selves, but we should graduate at some point, just like you do from school.  Become truly your own master and rely on your inner self.
                                                    --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                                                    From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                                    Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                                    To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 8:48 PM

                                                     
                                                    Sahaja Yoga is a state of being, Shri Mataji has always taught from that perspective...hence the essence of absloute truth being in all things. It's only the mind that interprets things wrongly.



                                                    From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                                    To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 19:19:59
                                                    Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                                     
                                                     The main thing I have learned is that one is ONE within spirit and and even kundalini is part of creation.  Vibrations I have found are not that much above thinking..that if you keep relying on such, you will be stuck in a web of negative and positive which is duality...it doesn not make you go that much higher than that.  Only connecting to the spirit totally without any distractions of the outside will one find the most powerful energy which is spirit and that is who we are.  It is unfair to claim that ex-members are not true seekers. All are spirit and all will get there! There are no chose ones.  All are chosen and all will arrive sooner or later because God is everyone of us non excluded!!!
                                                     I felt stuck after a while of not seeing any improvements on me or my sahaj siblings...all were so distracted trying to organize the group.  I no longer felt I was "evolving" at that slow pace.  Eventually we have to unplug from all group systems and unite as one...spirit doesnt know any name such as sahaja yoga..it is still creation...while spirit observes many things are created.  It is really true that when in a group one goes with the 'flock" and does not really take responsability to get rid of fears etc.   I found that I was afraid to leave sahaja yoga scared that I would no longer feel vibrations...well guess what....I feel an amazing energy which is my spirit and incredible intuition much more powerful than I ever did before.   ALl is a part of evolution and so was SY for me..but that is not the ultimate.  There are no rights and wrongs and no mistakes in life...nothing I regret....but I am not staying in the fears of group conditionings.  I wish all would see how many conditionings you have aquired in SY too...and how much you fear to even hug your parents who are not in sahaja yoga because they have negativity?  isnt this fear?  how can your heart be open with that kind of fear?  if we separate we are not being in spirit...anything that separates is ego!  non-sahaja yogies vs sahaja yogies IS separation...and that fear will limit you.  It is your choice.  I love the entire world and feel all in me and me in all. 

                                                    --- On Fri, 1/28/11, talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                                    From: talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com>
                                                    Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                                    To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Received: Friday, January 28, 2011, 7:00 AM

                                                     

                                                    Hey
                                                    still alive and kicking...
                                                    check out www.shri-mataji.org and www.sahajayogafacs.info

                                                    cheers
                                                    s.

                                                    --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, "victorysnear" <victorysnear@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > I know it's been a very hard job for all those wonderful ex sahaja yogis to keep this place working. You've given so much to others here! I'll never thank you enough.
                                                    > Even though, I think time has come to change this place. Make a Blog out of it. Keep the memory of your past for other victims of this dreadful cult and don't let this place fall into the hands of sy cult. I know each of you has your own busy life, you're so clever and bright, interested in your families, in culture and in fun too. You have moved on, I know. You deserve it. But the work you've done must be kept for others until sy disapears, it won't be a long time, victory's near...
                                                    > My regards to TASY group
                                                    > Vic
                                                    >
                                                    > --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, isaac iba <iba22000@> wrote:
                                                    > >
                                                    > > hi noé, i'm too here in this group to talk about my deeply experiences with
                                                    > > sahaja yoga ,i think we are so lucky to be a sahaja yogi ,but a good because
                                                    > > many persons whose was abuse with a false or bad sahaja yogi have now a bad
                                                    > > experience about sahaja yoga and some of them who wasn't a true seekers feel
                                                    > > deception but i want to encourage you to be sincere with the relationship
                                                    > > between you and the mother kundalini whose have been awakened by the power of
                                                    > > shri mataji...
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > > ________________________________
                                                    > > De : Noe Fosso Kamga <nfossokamga@>
                                                    > > À : talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > > Envoyé le : Mer 15 décembre 2010, 15h 06min 45s
                                                    > > Objet : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Hi, my name is Fosso Kamga Noe.I have been a sahaja yogi since five years.I want
                                                    > > here in this group, to talk about what I feel in sahaja yoga.I want to say what
                                                    > > great bliss is the work doing by Shri mataji. and I hope, all of members of the
                                                    > > group, will understand and share with me.
                                                    > >
                                                    >







                                                  • Clive Bates
                                                    Hello Yes, I understand, I have been fighting with an open heart all my life...the weapons are Truth and Love, beyond concept. The reason for the lies in the
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Feb 19, 2011
                                                    Hello

                                                    Yes, I understand, I have been fighting with an open heart all my life...the weapons are Truth and Love, beyond concept.

                                                    The reason for the lies in the group that calls itself SY is because there is a misidentification that SY is a group (the old herd mentality / animal instinct / residual subconcious conditioning from instictive behaviour that helped us to evolve, but which is now obsolete, but remains so long as the individual continues to identify with superficiality )

                                                    Sahaja Yoga means Spontaneous Union of body, mind, emotions, with pure spirit...it is a state of being each person has to become one with as an individual...only if people do that is there any chance of a group thing being successful...but that is the desire of good people for the world...wether thay call themselves Sahaja Yogis or not...so I want to be a part of that, otherwise what reason is there for living...not to sit at home and 'enjoy'...the whole world has always been my family, that is why I know that collectivity means knowing oneself as the Spirit, not as a memeber of a group, I have always known that....and I get a lot of abuse for it.

                                                    As for everything else you say...I always remember Blake's depiction of Job when he was confronted with the truth of his own superficial faith...it came to him as a vision of the devil hovering over him while he lay sick and in despair, facing the hell of his own making...conscience....the same vision gradually turned into an image of God as Job came to realise his self...his ego finally surrendering and heart opening to true divinity in himself. I've attached a picture of it in case you're interested.

                                                    From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                                    To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Sent: Sunday, 20 February, 2011 5:34:52
                                                    Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                                     

                                                    Hi Clive,
                                                     
                                                    Thank you for your quotes and comments.  "demons" is nothing but ego and ego is nothing but lies.  The only hell there is is the resistance to what is whether it shows it self as resistance to the outside or inside--it is all within.  Whatever we resist persists.  So many people keep fighting and resisting.  Becoming a warrior would mean with total open heart and not with fear or with hate.  I wanted to say one more thing, Clive, and that is that many yogies throught the years have hidden "life situations" from the general public because they wanted to glamourize Sahaja Yoga.  Things happened--people got ill, people died,attacked each other, still some caught in terror attacks or natural disasters, but only the "miracles" were reported. As if only a few are protected...if it was so, the entire world would not be here!   Is this all, not denial of life as fear?  So what if something happens, this is life and it was created in such a way for a reason.  One has a choice to see life as perfect as it is, or imperfect in everything.  I prefer to see it as perfect, that even so called mistakes have their own meaning in the web of maya--a door way out of maya.   That life and its dark aspects are there to show us the way to self love and self mastery.  That without the duality there is no plot for this creation, and yet we are battling with inner resistance, the very story that all of us plotted together as co-creators.  Didnt then we create "hell" just from our own resistance to life?  The inner state of mankind is "hell" because of its lack of understanding and illusive idea of separation to source, and the resistance to acceptance of ourselves through awareness?  If we truly want to transform ourselves we have to truly see our inner state without denial and resistance to our feelings and thoughts...embrace it all without resistance, then shed light to it to melt it away with loving awareness.  We might not see that we have the capacity to create our surroundings, but we do just by the way we are aware within.  How we react we attract that energy from within on the outside.  It is really really powerful energy.  Whatever we are facing, whomever we meet, it is a reflection of our inner state.  And all that we experience is loving messages and so are the people that come to us--they will tell us exactly what we need to hear to overcome certain things---we are constantly teaching and learning from each other.  

                                                    --- On Sun, 2/20/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                                                    From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                                    Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                                    To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Received: Sunday, February 20, 2011, 12:01 AM

                                                     
                                                    Ah, that's so great....

                                                    The vibrations are only felt because of the physical part of us, it shows that the central nervous system is being sufficiently nourished to ensure a healthy  body, mind, and emotions. When the Sahasrara opens fully there is no mental identity with the body it appears as distinctly seperate from the conciousness and their is no sensation of the nerves or anything felt, all the physical operates autonomously and unconciously....awareness is fully in the heart at that point and one is only the witness...no attachment, no 'other', no 'I', and no reaction, no feeling of want of loss, just pure unconditional awareness of being, relief, completeness, without those concepts coming into the attention, or any geting all emotional about it..it's a precious state of being...keep on undoing those bindings on the heart, with Love...I believe that that is what everyone, conciously and unconciously, are really looking for in Life...unfortunately there are many who fall into despair when they should be forgiving.

                                                    I will keep on fighting those 'demons' so that others can get there too and peace can come on earth...

                                                    Whenever I have worshipped 'Shri Mataji' it has always been with the complete understanding that the person sitting infront of me is merely trying to represent to us the autonomy of the forces of nature, by characterising them in such a manner that the autonmous nervous system gets a chance to do it's thing, devoid of the demands upon the nervous system caused by chaotic thinking and emotions...it's a technique that works, that's all....

                                                    More blessed still are those who no longer need techniques. This has always been what that lady who knew herself and the world well enough to embark on a project to make it easier for people to realise their SELF  has always wanted.

                                                    I mentioned the negativity and suffering in the world because it is happening and it is not necessary if there is an easier way to satisfy and negate our animalisitc behaviour...evolution is at a point where people have to conciously make the right choices if the human species is not going to succumb to self-destruction....so what I meant was, all the negativity in the group is like a training ground to make us resilient and able to prove to people that a realised soul can go through anything, thereby giving encouragement to those who find themselves in the terrible situations around the world, that, Yes, it is best to listen to that 'still and small voice' within whenit cries out for justice, but to achieve that justice and equality of recognition we first need to be something ourselves.

                                                    All have to start from somewhere and grow, so techniques and concepts are useful to have around for those who need them.

                                                    For one who enjoys words like I do the extract below was a great for clarifying that relationship we feel in being identified exclusively with our SELF while symultaneously acting out our daily lives in innocence.

                                                    BODHA ATMAN (...where "I am" is deeply established in the soul as Love.

                                                    CHAPTER XXXII. - Mahâpurânam S'rî Mad Devî Bhâgavatam by Maharsi Veda Vyâsa
                                                     
                                                    1-50. The Devî said:--"Hear, ye Immortals! My words with attention, that I am now going to speak to you, hearing which will enable the Jîvas to realise My Essence. Before the creation, I, only I, existed; nothing else was existent then. My Real Self is known by the names Chit, Sambit (Intelligence), Para Brahma and others. My Âtman is beyond mind, beyond thought, beyond any name or mark, without any parallel, and beyond birth, death or any other change or transformation. My Self has one inherent power called Mâyâ. This Mâyâ is not existent, nor non-existent, nor can it be called both. This unspeakable substance Mâyâ always exists (till the final emancipation or Moksha).
                                                     
                                                    Mâyâ can be destroyed by Brahmna Jñâna; so it can not be called existent, again if Mâyâ does not exist, the practical world catinot exist. So it cannot be called non-existent. Of course it cannot be called both, for it would involve contradictions. This Mâyâ (without beginning but with end at the time of Moksha) naturally arises as heat comes out of fire, as the rays come out of the Sun and as the cooling rays come out of the Moon. Just as all the Karmas of the Jîvas dissolve in deep sleep (S'usupti), so at the time of Pralaya or the General Dissolution, the Karmas of the Jîvas, the Jîvas and Time all become merged, in one uniform mass in this great Mâyâ. United with My S'aktî, I am the Cause of this world; this S'aktî has this defect that it has the power of hiding Me, its Originator.
                                                     
                                                    I am Nirguna. And when I am united with my S'aktî, Mâyâ, 1 become Saguns, the Great Cause of this world. This Mâyâ is divided into two, Vidyâ and Avidyâ. Avidyâ Mâyâ hides Me; whereas Vidyâ Mâyâ does not. Avidyâ creates whereas Vidyâ Mâyâ liberates.
                                                     
                                                    Mâyâ united with Chaitanya (Intelligence), i. e., Chidâbhâsa is the efficient cause of this Universe; whereas Mâyâ reduced to and united with five original elements is the material Cause of the Universe. Some call this Mâyâ tapas; some call Her inert, material; some call Her knowledge; some call Her Mâyâ, Pradhâna, Prakriti, Ajâ (unborn) and sonic others call Her S'aktî. The S'aiva authors call Her Vimars'a and the other Vedântists call Her Avidyâ; in short, this Mâyâ is in the heads of all the Pundits. This Mâyâ is called various in the Nigamas.
                                                    p. 738
                                                     
                                                    That which is seen is inert; for this reason Mâyâ is Jada (inert) and as the knowledge it conveys is destroyed, it is false. Chaitanya (Intelligence) is not seen; if It were seen, it would have been Jada. Chaitanya is self-luminous; not illumined by any other source. Were It so, Its Enlightener would have to be illumined by some other. thing and so the fallacy of Anavasthâ creeps in (an endless series of causes and effects). Again one thing cannot be the actor and the thing, acted upon (being contrary to each other); so Chaitanya cannot be illumined by itself. So It is Self-luminous; and it illumines Sun, Moon, etc., as a lamp is self-luminous and illumines other objects. So, O Mountain! This My Intelligence is established as eternal and everlasting. The waking, dreaming and deep sleep states do not remain constant but the sense of "I" remains the same, whether in waking, dreaming or deep sleep state; its anomaly is never felt. (The Bauddhas say that) The sense of ntelligence, Jñâna, is also not, felt; there in the absence of it; so what is existent is also temporarily existent. But (it can then be argued that) then the Witness by which that absence is sensed, that Intelligence, in the shape of the Witness, is eternal. So the Pundits of all the reasonable S'âstras declare that Samvit (Intelligence) is Eternal and it is Blissful the fountain of all love. Never the Jîvas or embodied souls feel "I am not"; but "I am" this feeling is deeply established in the soul as Love.
                                                     
                                                    Thus it is clearly evident that I am quite Separate from anything else which are all false. Also I am one continuous (no interval or separation existing within Me). Again Jñâna is not the Dharma (the natural quality) of Âtman but it is of the very nature of Âtman. If Jñâna ware the Dharma of Âtman, then Jñâna would have been material; so Jñâna is immaterial. If (for argument's sake) Jñâna be denominated as material, that cannot be. For Jñâna is of the nature of Intelligence and Âtman is of the the nature of Intelligence. Intelligence has not the attribute of being Dharma. Here the thing Chit is not different from its quality (Chit). So Âtman is always of the nature of Jñâna and happiness; Its nature is Truth; It is always Full, unattached and void of duality. This Âtman again, united with Mâyâ, composed of desires and Karmas, wants to create, due to the want of discrimination, the twenty-four tattvas, according to the previous Samskâras (tendencies), time and Karma. O Mountain! The re-awakening after Pralaya Susupti is not done with Buddhi (for then Buddhi is not at all manifested). So this creation is said to be effected without any Buddhi (proper intelligence). O Chief of the Immovables! The Tattva (Reality) that I have spoken to you is most excellent and it is my Extraordinary Form merely. In the Vedas it is known as Avyâkrita (unmodified), Avyakta (unmanifested)
                                                    p. 709
                                                     
                                                    Mâyâ S'abala (divided into various parts) and so forth. In all tlkc S'âstras, it is stated to be the Cause of all causes, the Primeval Tattva and Sachchidlinanda Vigraba. Where all the Karmas are solidified and where Ichchâ S'aktî, (will), Jñâna S'aktî (intelligence) and Kriyâ S'aktî (action) all are melted in one, that is called the Mantra Hrîm, that is the first Tattva. From this comes out Âkâsa, having the property of sound, thence Vâyu (air) with "touch" property; then fire with form, then water having "Rasa" property; and lastly the earth having the quality "smell." The Pundits say that the "sound" is the only quality of Âkâsa; air has two qualities viz., sound and touch, fire has three qualities sound, touch, form; water has four qualities sound, touch, form, taste; and the earth has five qualities sound, touch, form, taste and smell, Out of these five original elements, the allpervading, Sûtra (string or thread) arose. This Sûtrâtman (soul) is called the "Linga Deha," comprising within itself all the Prânas; this is the subtle body of the Paramâtman. And what is said in the previous lines as Avyakta or Unmainfested and in which the Seed of the World is involved and whence the Linga Deha has sprung, that is called the Causal body (Kârana body) of the Paramâtman. The five original elements (Apañchikrita called the five Tan Mâtrâs) being created, next by the Pañchîkarana process, the gross elements are created. The process is now being stated:--O Girijâ! Each of the five original elements is divided into two parts; one part of each of which is subdivided into four parts. This fourth part of each is united with the half of four other elements different from it and thus each gross element is formed. By these five gross elements, the Cosmic (Virât) body is formed and this is called the Gross Body of the God. Jñânendriyas (the organs of knowledge) arise from Sattva Gunas of each of these five elements. Again the Sattva Gunas of each of the Jñânendriyas united become the Antah Karanâni. This Antah karana is of four kinds, according as its functions vary. When it is engaged in forming Sankalpas, resolves, and Vikalpas (doubts) it is called "mind." When it is free from doubts and when it arrives at the decisive conclusion, it is called "Chitta"; and when it rests simply on itself in the shape of the feeling "I", it is called Ahamkâra. From the Rajo Guna of each of the five elements arises Vâk (speech), Pâni (hands) Pâda (feet), Pâyu (Anus) and Upastha (organs of generation). Again their Rajo parts united give rise to the five Prânas (Prâna, Apâna, Samâna, Udâna and Vyâna) the Prâna Vayu resides in the heart; Apâna Vayu in the Arms; Samâna Vayu resides in the Navel; Udâna Vayu rasides in the Throat; and the Vyâna Vâyu resides, pervading all over the body. My subtle body (Linga Deha) arises from the union of the five
                                                    p. 710
                                                     
                                                    Jñânendriyas, the five Karmendriyas (organs of action), the five Pranas and the mind and Buddhi, these seventeen elements. And the Prakriti that resides there is divided into two parts; one is pure (Suddha Satbva) Mâyâ and the other is the impure Mâyâ or Avidyâ united with the Gunas. By Mâyâ is meant She, who, without concealing Her refugees, protects them. When the Supreme Self is reflected on this S'uddha Sattva, Mâyâ, He is called Îs'vara. This Saddha Mâyâ does not conceal Brahma, its receptacle; therefore She knows the All-pervading Brahma and She is omniscient, omnipotent, the Lady of all and confors favours and blessings on all. When the Supreme Self is reflected on the Impure Mâyâ or Avidyâ, He is called Jîva. This Avidyâ conceals Brahma, Whose nature is Happiness; therefore this Jîva is the source of all miseries. Both Îs'vara and Jîva have, by the influence of Vidyâ and Avidyâ three bodies and three names. When the Jîva lives in his causal body, he is named Prâjna; when he lives in subtle body he is known as Taijasa; while he has the gross body, he is called Vis'va. So when Îs'vara is in His causal body, he is denominated Îs'a; when He is in His subtle body, he is known as Sûtra; and when He is in His groqs body, He is known as Virât.
                                                     
                                                    The Jîva glories in having three (as above-mentioned) kinds of differentiated bodies and Îs'vara glories in having three (as above-mentioned) kinds of cosmic bodies. Thus Îs'vara is the Lord of all and though He feels Himself always happy and satisfied, yet to favour the Jîvas and to give them liberation (Moksa) He has created various sorts of worldly things for their Bhogas (enjoyments). This Îs'vara creates all the Universe, impelled by My Brahma S'aktî. I am of the nature of Brahma; and Îs'vara in conceived in Me as a snake is imagined in a rope. Therefore Îs'vara has to remain dependent on My S'akti.
                                                     
                                                    Here ends the Thirty-second Chapter of the Seventh Book on Self-realization,  in the Mahâpurnam S'rî Mad Devî Bhâgavatam, of 18,000 verses, by Maharsi Veda Vyâsa.
                                                     


                                                    From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                                    To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Sent: Saturday, 19 February, 2011 23:01:58
                                                    Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                                     
                                                    HI Clive,
                                                     
                                                    Yes, ultimately we are talking the same thing.  There are differences.  I know Shri Mataji was my spiritual teacher for many years, but I no longer worship her nor have the understanding of it. Everything melts in ONENESS and to worship is to separate, and to put one above or below another person is still illusive.  What do incarnations represent other than our higher self?  The Son of man you can call Christ but it is all of us as ONE.   During these past two years, my transformation has been really incredible to such an experience where I pray and I feel like my own spirit is praying to itself..there is no separation anymore.  It doesn't seem as difficult as it was but it does take a lot.
                                                    You have not opened any wounds because I am dealing with my emotions and thoughts as they come.  There is nothing I hide from myself anymore.  Being aware is precisely being in touch with everything that is happening within.  If an emotion comes up, I will treat it like I would a small child--with love and understanding and then release it.  
                                                    I dont care what Sahaja Yogies think of me, specially because if they think negative, it is from their own perception which has much to do with them and not me.  I no longer care to return to the group because I dont need to.  My intuitive self is incredible and each one of us has it.  Intuition goes beyond vibrations and if you are in touch with it, it will answer all your questions.  There are many many loving people in the world and the entire world is our family.
                                                    You asked about bad or evil.  Dont fixate yourself on it.  The only way to transform this world is by fully being YOU /LOVE.  You will begin to see everyone as complete, even the people who havent felt complete.  By feeling their complete self, they will begin to feel their own and transform.  The body gets sick because we identify with it, and with the illness...whatever we identify with is our reality.  If  you identify with "the evil of the world" then you are not helping to disolve it.  I believe in what the Toltecs said that the big maya is actually the illusion that there is good against evil---this is so not true---it is just truth and lies and evil is not evil..it is lies...when we overcome our own lies there is only truth.  We cannot change anyone else..but when we are fully LOVE then we spread it everywhere--  spread it around the world just by sending it and you dont even need to give a bhandhan, just send it out.    I had to face my reactions to false gurus.  I have friends who read Osho,and other gurus and it is fine with me, whoever is ready is getting realized, not by what they read but by their own spirit.  I love all my friends and I really respect whatever they resonate with.  Whatever we react to we create an obstacle to TRUTH..so allow things to be as they are and fully accept it unless you can change it.  But trust me that it is easier to change ourselves than it is to change any one else.
                                                    I am still experimenting and undoing--- why do I feel vibrations or energy when I dont see Shri Mataji as more than a guru?  when I am no longer in SY?  are these conditioned feelings?  I will experiment ..because there is something aware of those feelings..and those feelings are not me but are felt...the total background when I can no longer identify with something other than just BEING in total silent presence...that is Ultimate.
                                                    Love and light
                                                     
                                                     

                                                    --- On Sat, 2/19/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                                                    From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                                    Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                                    To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Received: Saturday, February 19, 2011, 6:29 PM

                                                     
                                                    Have you realised yet that we are both saying the same thing, just using different words, in a different way ? (:-))

                                                    Sorry if I have opened old wounds for you.

                                                    Sahaja Yoga , as they are written here, is just two words...

                                                    What it means is a different story.

                                                    The meaning of that saying amongst Muslims comes from the fact that we are all born innocent, helpless, at the mercy of things beyond our control, in effect, forcefully surrendered...

                                                    And yet in that state, so long as we are well taken care of  we are completely free, more than we ever will be in ourlives, because we have no thought or expectatin of anything, all is a wonderful joygiving mystery, so long as we are taken care of...

                                                    Kundalini is our Mother inside us, this you know .... so why worry about what other's think ?! You do so because you don't want to offend anyone...but sometimes you have to offend in order to show the truth isn't it...!!!

                                                    I too was scorned by people for leaving my angry caught up Sahaj marriage...so, they would never understand until it happens to them...and I pray it never does because it's not nice...

                                                    I eneded up marrying someone wjom I chose for myself, and still it was horrendous, for a long time, and guess what,  I realised we were both to blame,and if I changed myself things would get better...now we are like two peas in pod enjoying, especially after knowing how foolish we had both been before...people only fight when they scared....one who knows their self is automatically never scared.

                                                    So now I am able to be one with my SELF, and am no longer afraid, and can go anywhere with confidence, and Love in my heart.

                                                    Jai Shri Mataji

                                                    P.S. EVERYTHING is 'MahaMaya' , it simply means 'Great Mystery'...even my cat is 'Maha Maya'

                                                    As Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi Shrivastava herself once said...'Even this stone is God, the thing is it can't REALISE it'...it's inconcievable, but felt as Love and Truth by human beings who's desire is pure and peaceful.

                                                    Life is what one makes it, within the boundaries of nature.

                                                    Sorry for your troubles...one can only know it if one has walked in those shoes...I wouyld not wish that anyone should walk in mine.

                                                    with Love, always.



                                                    From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                                    To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Sent: Saturday, 19 February, 2011 7:42:29
                                                    Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                                     
                                                    Do you know what Muslims believe?  That all are born to Islam.  Meaning all are born in submission to God.  This is as true as your statement.  Does it mean we have to separate each other and fear each other for not being in THAT?  Just so you know---  I was as deep as anyone can get in Sahaja Yoga for many many years.  The reason I left is because of other's fear of my divorce--they were scared that SY would get a bad name---that is how fearful people are in there! and uncompassionate as a result.. but my years there I felt vibrations with ease, and I have been a very clear person--- people know me as a very pure soul.  I am not against SY.  I feel that people should evolve past feeling vibrations, past fears of others, past separation of groups and judgement of each other.  You dont see it, but you are conditioned into group belief aside from vibrations.  And vibrations change all the time.  You can feel one person now and tomorrow feel him or her again and it might change---it will change for sure all the time...but many judge them from that moment they check.  There is a lot of fears in the group.  It is important to note them down when you introspect and overcome them.  I am not here to condemn but to really open your eyes if possible.  I said it before---Mahamaya is maya, but your spirit will never delude you---NEVER.  All is God and your experience of reality and others completely reflects from you.  Without you, you wouldnt see others nor this world as you see them...without YOU you would not feel what you feel, nor realize what you realize.  No one can transform you but your self by your own desire and will and readiness (even Shri Mataji says this!).  And this will happen under any circumstances which has no name, or organization or religion or meditation group.  Spirit even has a name that we gave it, but it still IS whether we name it or not...so you can call people or self realization as Sahaja yoga or sahaja yogies or  what you like, it doesnt mean that is what they are, that is what you think they are by your belief--and beliefs are man made.  

                                                    --- On Sat, 2/19/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                                                    From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                                    Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                                    To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Received: Saturday, February 19, 2011, 12:02 AM

                                                     
                                                    ...in that respect, anyone who is self-realised is a Sahaja Yogi; someone in the sate of Yoga, which is something that happens spontaneously through the opening of the Sahasrara.






                                                    From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                                    To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 22:15:37
                                                    Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                                     
                                                    Someone is only 'in Sahaja Yoga' if they are aware of themselves and remain in that awareness.

                                                    Sahaja Yoga is a state of BEING, that's why ot is called pure religion...Religion itself is an process of introspection, something that is undertaken...again people use concepts to suti their awareness of the world and their place in it.

                                                    Attempts at organising religion, the aspiration, is also being religious, until that is the spontanaity is lost amidst dogmatism born of people who do not know their SELF and so do not know true freedom.



                                                    From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                                    To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 21:54:17
                                                    Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                                     
                                                    In other words, Sahaja Yoga has NOTHING to do with beingness and existance..it is for some, a way to get to  THEIR OWN awareness but it is not awareness itself nor beingness itself.  It is still a lable and an illusion, and so the same would be any Guru...a finger pointing at the moon is not the moon.  All ends up in "I AM"  God is also "I AM" and so is each of us..meaning all is the same, us, incarnations,all the same! " I AM" is the basis and that can happen to anyone at any point in time when one is ready by any means, not just Sahaja Yoga.  I have met very mature saintly people who havent even heard of Sahaja Yoga. 

                                                    --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...> wrote:

                                                    From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                                    Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                                    To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 9:46 PM

                                                     

                                                    Yes...but are all BEINGS IN Sahaja yoga?  does beingness require that one should be a Sahaja Yogi?  Is existance without meaning without Sahaja Yoga? Sahaja Yoga is a teaching or the return to our selves, but we should graduate at some point, just like you do from school.  Become truly your own master and rely on your inner self.
                                                    --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                                                    From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                                    Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                                    To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 8:48 PM

                                                     
                                                    Sahaja Yoga is a state of being, Shri Mataji has always taught from that perspective...hence the essence of absloute truth being in all things. It's only the mind that interprets things wrongly.



                                                    From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                                    To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 19:19:59
                                                    Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                                     
                                                     The main thing I have learned is that one is ONE within spirit and and even kundalini is part of creation.  Vibrations I have found are not that much above thinking..that if you keep relying on such, you will be stuck in a web of negative and positive which is duality...it doesn not make you go that much higher than that.  Only connecting to the spirit totally without any distractions of the outside will one find the most powerful energy which is spirit and that is who we are.  It is unfair to claim that ex-members are not true seekers. All are spirit and all will get there! There are no chose ones.  All are chosen and all will arrive sooner or later because God is everyone of us non excluded!!!
                                                     I felt stuck after a while of not seeing any improvements on me or my sahaj siblings...all were so distracted trying to organize the group.  I no longer felt I was "evolving" at that slow pace.  Eventually we have to unplug from all group systems and unite as one...spirit doesnt know any name such as sahaja yoga..it is still creation...while spirit observes many things are created.  It is really true that when in a group one goes with the 'flock" and does not really take responsability to get rid of fears etc.   I found that I was afraid to leave sahaja yoga scared that I would no longer feel vibrations...well guess what....I feel an amazing energy which is my spirit and incredible intuition much more powerful than I ever did before.   ALl is a part of evolution and so was SY for me..but that is not the ultimate.  There are no rights and wrongs and no mistakes in life...nothing I regret....but I am not staying in the fears of group conditionings.  I wish all would see how many conditionings you have aquired in SY too...and how much you fear to even hug your parents who are not in sahaja yoga because they have negativity?  isnt this fear?  how can your heart be open with that kind of fear?  if we separate we are not being in spirit...anything that separates is ego!  non-sahaja yogies vs sahaja yogies IS separation...and that fear will limit you.  It is your choice.  I love the entire world and feel all in me and me in all. 

                                                    --- On Fri, 1/28/11, talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                                    From: talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com>
                                                    Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                                    To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Received: Friday, January 28, 2011, 7:00 AM

                                                     

                                                    Hey
                                                    still alive and kicking...
                                                    check out www.shri-mataji.org and www.sahajayogafacs.info

                                                    cheers
                                                    s.

                                                    --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, "victorysnear" <victorysnear@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > I know it's been a very hard job for all those wonderful ex sahaja yogis to keep this place working. You've given so much to others here! I'll never thank you enough.
                                                    > Even though, I think time has come to change this place. Make a Blog out of it. Keep the memory of your past for other victims of this dreadful cult and don't let this place fall into the hands of sy cult. I know each of you has your own busy life, you're so clever and bright, interested in your families, in culture and in fun too. You have moved on, I know. You deserve it. But the work you've done must be kept for others until sy disapears, it won't be a long time, victory's near...
                                                    > My regards to TASY group
                                                    > Vic
                                                    >
                                                    > --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, isaac iba <iba22000@> wrote:
                                                    > >
                                                    > > hi noé, i'm too here in this group to talk about my deeply experiences with
                                                    > > sahaja yoga ,i think we are so lucky to be a sahaja yogi ,but a good because
                                                    > > many persons whose was abuse with a false or bad sahaja yogi have now a bad
                                                    > > experience about sahaja yoga and some of them who wasn't a true seekers feel
                                                    > > deception but i want to encourage you to be sincere with the relationship
                                                    > > between you and the mother kundalini whose have been awakened by the power of
                                                    > > shri mataji...
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > > ________________________________
                                                    > > De : Noe Fosso Kamga <nfossokamga@>
                                                    > > À : talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > > Envoyé le : Mer 15 décembre 2010, 15h 06min 45s
                                                    > > Objet : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Hi, my name is Fosso Kamga Noe.I have been a sahaja yogi since five years.I want
                                                    > > here in this group, to talk about what I feel in sahaja yoga.I want to say what
                                                    > > great bliss is the work doing by Shri mataji. and I hope, all of members of the
                                                    > > group, will understand and share with me.
                                                    > >
                                                    >







                                                  • Yogini Kumar
                                                    HI Clive:   I think we have made an incredible use of this site and I am grateful for this exchange, mostly because I have been carrying a bit of resentment
                                                    Message 26 of 29 , Feb 20, 2011
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      HI Clive:
                                                       
                                                      I think we have made an incredible use of this site and I am grateful for this exchange, mostly because I have been carrying a bit of resentment and yet I am grateful for getting to the awareness where I can be completely IN spirit at any given moment.  I am grateful to everyone who has been in my life and whether we know it or not, we do chose our experiences by the energies of desire, attraction and reaction---none of which I would condemn but which are tools that guide us towards facing ourselves if we detach and are aware to it all.  I had felt a victim of many things throught my life, and it would have been easy to feel a victim of Sahaja Yoga just because I was in that energy identification to begin with.  I had to recognize and move away from that identification and know that I am spirit and that everyone and everything in my life is just precisely God conspiring my return to God and everything including Sahaja Yoga set the stage for me.  Yogies checked at one point if I had been born realized (I knew I wasnt) and they told me I was not born realized, but what made me grow very deep was my thirst for God-- for oneness.  This never stopped and I never gave up---it was not "by the way" and it was very much my number one desire and I knew it always that it is real--not a philosophy.  Someone said to me that life is cruel---but this is perception.  Life is life and we can create our perception to it and we can identify with whichever role we chose to.  Life is what it is and our reaction can tell us otherwise.  You reminded me that people who are seeking--many come from a very depressive, painful situations and identification with many things., and that their experience will include these personal identifications which will hopefully melt away.  It is true that all of us have approached spirituality through the mind and not spirit itself.  Each one is resposible to use experiences to aid the return to spirit and not get caught in victim identity or spiritual identities too.  .
                                                      No matter what one is following, group,guru, etc---awakening is individual and we can place many excuses not to BE...because the ego wants people to believe that it is spirit.  We must remember that Spirituality is in the mind while spirit IS.   Grace is always present but one has to connect to it. 
                                                      I have a choice of how I feel about it all and I KNOW that I am deeply grateful. 
                                                      Blessings, love and light
                                                      --- On Sun, 2/20/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                                                      From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                                      Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments [1 Attachment]
                                                      To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Received: Sunday, February 20, 2011, 6:56 AM

                                                       
                                                      Hello

                                                      Yes, I understand, I have been fighting with an open heart all my life...the weapons are Truth and Love, beyond concept.

                                                      The reason for the lies in the group that calls itself SY is because there is a misidentification that SY is a group (the old herd mentality / animal instinct / residual subconcious conditioning from instictive behaviour that helped us to evolve, but which is now obsolete, but remains so long as the individual continues to identify with superficiality )

                                                      Sahaja Yoga means Spontaneous Union of body, mind, emotions, with pure spirit...it is a state of being each person has to become one with as an individual...only if people do that is there any chance of a group thing being successful...but that is the desire of good people for the world...wether thay call themselves Sahaja Yogis or not...so I want to be a part of that, otherwise what reason is there for living...not to sit at home and 'enjoy'...the whole world has always been my family, that is why I know that collectivity means knowing oneself as the Spirit, not as a memeber of a group, I have always known that....and I get a lot of abuse for it.

                                                      As for everything else you say...I always remember Blake's depiction of Job when he was confronted with the truth of his own superficial faith...it came to him as a vision of the devil hovering over him while he lay sick and in despair, facing the hell of his own making...conscience....the same vision gradually turned into an image of God as Job came to realise his self...his ego finally surrendering and heart opening to true divinity in himself. I've attached a picture of it in case you're interested.

                                                      From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                                      To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Sent: Sunday, 20 February, 2011 5:34:52
                                                      Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                                       
                                                      Hi Clive,
                                                       
                                                      Thank you for your quotes and comments.  "demons" is nothing but ego and ego is nothing but lies.  The only hell there is is the resistance to what is whether it shows it self as resistance to the outside or inside--it is all within.  Whatever we resist persists.  So many people keep fighting and resisting.  Becoming a warrior would mean with total open heart and not with fear or with hate.  I wanted to say one more thing, Clive, and that is that many yogies throught the years have hidden "life situations" from the general public because they wanted to glamourize Sahaja Yoga.  Things happened--people got ill, people died,attacked each other, still some caught in terror attacks or natural disasters, but only the "miracles" were reported. As if only a few are protected...if it was so, the entire world would not be here!   Is this all, not denial of life as fear?  So what if something happens, this is life and it was created in such a way for a reason.  One has a choice to see life as perfect as it is, or imperfect in everything.  I prefer to see it as perfect, that even so called mistakes have their own meaning in the web of maya--a door way out of maya.   That life and its dark aspects are there to show us the way to self love and self mastery.  That without the duality there is no plot for this creation, and yet we are battling with inner resistance, the very story that all of us plotted together as co-creators.  Didnt then we create "hell" just from our own resistance to life?  The inner state of mankind is "hell" because of its lack of understanding and illusive idea of separation to source, and the resistance to acceptance of ourselves through awareness?  If we truly want to transform ourselves we have to truly see our inner state without denial and resistance to our feelings and thoughts...embrace it all without resistance, then shed light to it to melt it away with loving awareness.  We might not see that we have the capacity to create our surroundings, but we do just by the way we are aware within.  How we react we attract that energy from within on the outside.  It is really really powerful energy.  Whatever we are facing, whomever we meet, it is a reflection of our inner state.  And all that we experience is loving messages and so are the people that come to us--they will tell us exactly what we need to hear to overcome certain things---we are constantly teaching and learning from each other.  

                                                      --- On Sun, 2/20/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                                                      From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                                      Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                                      To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Received: Sunday, February 20, 2011, 12:01 AM

                                                       
                                                      Ah, that's so great....

                                                      The vibrations are only felt because of the physical part of us, it shows that the central nervous system is being sufficiently nourished to ensure a healthy  body, mind, and emotions. When the Sahasrara opens fully there is no mental identity with the body it appears as distinctly seperate from the conciousness and their is no sensation of the nerves or anything felt, all the physical operates autonomously and unconciously....awareness is fully in the heart at that point and one is only the witness...no attachment, no 'other', no 'I', and no reaction, no feeling of want of loss, just pure unconditional awareness of being, relief, completeness, without those concepts coming into the attention, or any geting all emotional about it..it's a precious state of being...keep on undoing those bindings on the heart, with Love...I believe that that is what everyone, conciously and unconciously, are really looking for in Life...unfortunately there are many who fall into despair when they should be forgiving.

                                                      I will keep on fighting those 'demons' so that others can get there too and peace can come on earth...

                                                      Whenever I have worshipped 'Shri Mataji' it has always been with the complete understanding that the person sitting infront of me is merely trying to represent to us the autonomy of the forces of nature, by characterising them in such a manner that the autonmous nervous system gets a chance to do it's thing, devoid of the demands upon the nervous system caused by chaotic thinking and emotions...it's a technique that works, that's all....

                                                      More blessed still are those who no longer need techniques. This has always been what that lady who knew herself and the world well enough to embark on a project to make it easier for people to realise their SELF  has always wanted.

                                                      I mentioned the negativity and suffering in the world because it is happening and it is not necessary if there is an easier way to satisfy and negate our animalisitc behaviour...evolution is at a point where people have to conciously make the right choices if the human species is not going to succumb to self-destruction....so what I meant was, all the negativity in the group is like a training ground to make us resilient and able to prove to people that a realised soul can go through anything, thereby giving encouragement to those who find themselves in the terrible situations around the world, that, Yes, it is best to listen to that 'still and small voice' within whenit cries out for justice, but to achieve that justice and equality of recognition we first need to be something ourselves.

                                                      All have to start from somewhere and grow, so techniques and concepts are useful to have around for those who need them.

                                                      For one who enjoys words like I do the extract below was a great for clarifying that relationship we feel in being identified exclusively with our SELF while symultaneously acting out our daily lives in innocence.

                                                      BODHA ATMAN (...where "I am" is deeply established in the soul as Love.

                                                      CHAPTER XXXII. - Mahâpurânam S'rî Mad Devî Bhâgavatam by Maharsi Veda Vyâsa
                                                       
                                                      1-50. The Devî said:--"Hear, ye Immortals! My words with attention, that I am now going to speak to you, hearing which will enable the Jîvas to realise My Essence. Before the creation, I, only I, existed; nothing else was existent then. My Real Self is known by the names Chit, Sambit (Intelligence), Para Brahma and others. My Âtman is beyond mind, beyond thought, beyond any name or mark, without any parallel, and beyond birth, death or any other change or transformation. My Self has one inherent power called Mâyâ. This Mâyâ is not existent, nor non-existent, nor can it be called both. This unspeakable substance Mâyâ always exists (till the final emancipation or Moksha).
                                                       
                                                      Mâyâ can be destroyed by Brahmna Jñâna; so it can not be called existent, again if Mâyâ does not exist, the practical world catinot exist. So it cannot be called non-existent. Of course it cannot be called both, for it would involve contradictions. This Mâyâ (without beginning but with end at the time of Moksha) naturally arises as heat comes out of fire, as the rays come out of the Sun and as the cooling rays come out of the Moon. Just as all the Karmas of the Jîvas dissolve in deep sleep (S'usupti), so at the time of Pralaya or the General Dissolution, the Karmas of the Jîvas, the Jîvas and Time all become merged, in one uniform mass in this great Mâyâ. United with My S'aktî, I am the Cause of this world; this S'aktî has this defect that it has the power of hiding Me, its Originator.
                                                       
                                                      I am Nirguna. And when I am united with my S'aktî, Mâyâ, 1 become Saguns, the Great Cause of this world. This Mâyâ is divided into two, Vidyâ and Avidyâ. Avidyâ Mâyâ hides Me; whereas Vidyâ Mâyâ does not. Avidyâ creates whereas Vidyâ Mâyâ liberates.
                                                       
                                                      Mâyâ united with Chaitanya (Intelligence), i. e., Chidâbhâsa is the efficient cause of this Universe; whereas Mâyâ reduced to and united with five original elements is the material Cause of the Universe. Some call this Mâyâ tapas; some call Her inert, material; some call Her knowledge; some call Her Mâyâ, Pradhâna, Prakriti, Ajâ (unborn) and sonic others call Her S'aktî. The S'aiva authors call Her Vimars'a and the other Vedântists call Her Avidyâ; in short, this Mâyâ is in the heads of all the Pundits. This Mâyâ is called various in the Nigamas.
                                                      p. 738
                                                       
                                                      That which is seen is inert; for this reason Mâyâ is Jada (inert) and as the knowledge it conveys is destroyed, it is false. Chaitanya (Intelligence) is not seen; if It were seen, it would have been Jada. Chaitanya is self-luminous; not illumined by any other source. Were It so, Its Enlightener would have to be illumined by some other. thing and so the fallacy of Anavasthâ creeps in (an endless series of causes and effects). Again one thing cannot be the actor and the thing, acted upon (being contrary to each other); so Chaitanya cannot be illumined by itself. So It is Self-luminous; and it illumines Sun, Moon, etc., as a lamp is self-luminous and illumines other objects. So, O Mountain! This My Intelligence is established as eternal and everlasting. The waking, dreaming and deep sleep states do not remain constant but the sense of "I" remains the same, whether in waking, dreaming or deep sleep state; its anomaly is never felt. (The Bauddhas say that) The sense of ntelligence, Jñâna, is also not, felt; there in the absence of it; so what is existent is also temporarily existent. But (it can then be argued that) then the Witness by which that absence is sensed, that Intelligence, in the shape of the Witness, is eternal. So the Pundits of all the reasonable S'âstras declare that Samvit (Intelligence) is Eternal and it is Blissful the fountain of all love. Never the Jîvas or embodied souls feel "I am not"; but "I am" this feeling is deeply established in the soul as Love.
                                                       
                                                      Thus it is clearly evident that I am quite Separate from anything else which are all false. Also I am one continuous (no interval or separation existing within Me). Again Jñâna is not the Dharma (the natural quality) of Âtman but it is of the very nature of Âtman. If Jñâna ware the Dharma of Âtman, then Jñâna would have been material; so Jñâna is immaterial. If (for argument's sake) Jñâna be denominated as material, that cannot be. For Jñâna is of the nature of Intelligence and Âtman is of the the nature of Intelligence. Intelligence has not the attribute of being Dharma. Here the thing Chit is not different from its quality (Chit). So Âtman is always of the nature of Jñâna and happiness; Its nature is Truth; It is always Full, unattached and void of duality. This Âtman again, united with Mâyâ, composed of desires and Karmas, wants to create, due to the want of discrimination, the twenty-four tattvas, according to the previous Samskâras (tendencies), time and Karma. O Mountain! The re-awakening after Pralaya Susupti is not done with Buddhi (for then Buddhi is not at all manifested). So this creation is said to be effected without any Buddhi (proper intelligence). O Chief of the Immovables! The Tattva (Reality) that I have spoken to you is most excellent and it is my Extraordinary Form merely. In the Vedas it is known as Avyâkrita (unmodified), Avyakta (unmanifested)
                                                      p. 709
                                                       
                                                      Mâyâ S'abala (divided into various parts) and so forth. In all tlkc S'âstras, it is stated to be the Cause of all causes, the Primeval Tattva and Sachchidlinanda Vigraba. Where all the Karmas are solidified and where Ichchâ S'aktî, (will), Jñâna S'aktî (intelligence) and Kriyâ S'aktî (action) all are melted in one, that is called the Mantra Hrîm, that is the first Tattva. From this comes out Âkâsa, having the property of sound, thence Vâyu (air) with "touch" property; then fire with form, then water having "Rasa" property; and lastly the earth having the quality "smell." The Pundits say that the "sound" is the only quality of Âkâsa; air has two qualities viz., sound and touch, fire has three qualities sound, touch, form; water has four qualities sound, touch, form, taste; and the earth has five qualities sound, touch, form, taste and smell, Out of these five original elements, the allpervading, Sûtra (string or thread) arose. This Sûtrâtman (soul) is called the "Linga Deha," comprising within itself all the Prânas; this is the subtle body of the Paramâtman. And what is said in the previous lines as Avyakta or Unmainfested and in which the Seed of the World is involved and whence the Linga Deha has sprung, that is called the Causal body (Kârana body) of the Paramâtman. The five original elements (Apañchikrita called the five Tan Mâtrâs) being created, next by the Pañchîkarana process, the gross elements are created. The process is now being stated:--O Girijâ! Each of the five original elements is divided into two parts; one part of each of which is subdivided into four parts. This fourth part of each is united with the half of four other elements different from it and thus each gross element is formed. By these five gross elements, the Cosmic (Virât) body is formed and this is called the Gross Body of the God. Jñânendriyas (the organs of knowledge) arise from Sattva Gunas of each of these five elements. Again the Sattva Gunas of each of the Jñânendriyas united become the Antah Karanâni. This Antah karana is of four kinds, according as its functions vary. When it is engaged in forming Sankalpas, resolves, and Vikalpas (doubts) it is called "mind." When it is free from doubts and when it arrives at the decisive conclusion, it is called "Chitta"; and when it rests simply on itself in the shape of the feeling "I", it is called Ahamkâra. From the Rajo Guna of each of the five elements arises Vâk (speech), Pâni (hands) Pâda (feet), Pâyu (Anus) and Upastha (organs of generation). Again their Rajo parts united give rise to the five Prânas (Prâna, Apâna, Samâna, Udâna and Vyâna) the Prâna Vayu resides in the heart; Apâna Vayu in the Arms; Samâna Vayu resides in the Navel; Udâna Vayu rasides in the Throat; and the Vyâna Vâyu resides, pervading all over the body. My subtle body (Linga Deha) arises from the union of the five
                                                      p. 710
                                                       
                                                      Jñânendriyas, the five Karmendriyas (organs of action), the five Pranas and the mind and Buddhi, these seventeen elements. And the Prakriti that resides there is divided into two parts; one is pure (Suddha Satbva) Mâyâ and the other is the impure Mâyâ or Avidyâ united with the Gunas. By Mâyâ is meant She, who, without concealing Her refugees, protects them. When the Supreme Self is reflected on this S'uddha Sattva, Mâyâ, He is called Îs'vara. This Saddha Mâyâ does not conceal Brahma, its receptacle; therefore She knows the All-pervading Brahma and She is omniscient, omnipotent, the Lady of all and confors favours and blessings on all. When the Supreme Self is reflected on the Impure Mâyâ or Avidyâ, He is called Jîva. This Avidyâ conceals Brahma, Whose nature is Happiness; therefore this Jîva is the source of all miseries. Both Îs'vara and Jîva have, by the influence of Vidyâ and Avidyâ three bodies and three names. When the Jîva lives in his causal body, he is named Prâjna; when he lives in subtle body he is known as Taijasa; while he has the gross body, he is called Vis'va. So when Îs'vara is in His causal body, he is denominated Îs'a; when He is in His subtle body, he is known as Sûtra; and when He is in His groqs body, He is known as Virât.
                                                       
                                                      The Jîva glories in having three (as above-mentioned) kinds of differentiated bodies and Îs'vara glories in having three (as above-mentioned) kinds of cosmic bodies. Thus Îs'vara is the Lord of all and though He feels Himself always happy and satisfied, yet to favour the Jîvas and to give them liberation (Moksa) He has created various sorts of worldly things for their Bhogas (enjoyments). This Îs'vara creates all the Universe, impelled by My Brahma S'aktî. I am of the nature of Brahma; and Îs'vara in conceived in Me as a snake is imagined in a rope. Therefore Îs'vara has to remain dependent on My S'akti.
                                                       
                                                      Here ends the Thirty-second Chapter of the Seventh Book on Self-realization,  in the Mahâpurnam S'rî Mad Devî Bhâgavatam, of 18,000 verses, by Maharsi Veda Vyâsa.
                                                       


                                                      From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                                      To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Sent: Saturday, 19 February, 2011 23:01:58
                                                      Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                                       
                                                      HI Clive,
                                                       
                                                      Yes, ultimately we are talking the same thing.  There are differences.  I know Shri Mataji was my spiritual teacher for many years, but I no longer worship her nor have the understanding of it. Everything melts in ONENESS and to worship is to separate, and to put one above or below another person is still illusive.  What do incarnations represent other than our higher self?  The Son of man you can call Christ but it is all of us as ONE.   During these past two years, my transformation has been really incredible to such an experience where I pray and I feel like my own spirit is praying to itself..there is no separation anymore.  It doesn't seem as difficult as it was but it does take a lot.
                                                      You have not opened any wounds because I am dealing with my emotions and thoughts as they come.  There is nothing I hide from myself anymore.  Being aware is precisely being in touch with everything that is happening within.  If an emotion comes up, I will treat it like I would a small child--with love and understanding and then release it.  
                                                      I dont care what Sahaja Yogies think of me, specially because if they think negative, it is from their own perception which has much to do with them and not me.  I no longer care to return to the group because I dont need to.  My intuitive self is incredible and each one of us has it.  Intuition goes beyond vibrations and if you are in touch with it, it will answer all your questions.  There are many many loving people in the world and the entire world is our family.
                                                      You asked about bad or evil.  Dont fixate yourself on it.  The only way to transform this world is by fully being YOU /LOVE.  You will begin to see everyone as complete, even the people who havent felt complete.  By feeling their complete self, they will begin to feel their own and transform.  The body gets sick because we identify with it, and with the illness...whatever we identify with is our reality.  If  you identify with "the evil of the world" then you are not helping to disolve it.  I believe in what the Toltecs said that the big maya is actually the illusion that there is good against evil---this is so not true---it is just truth and lies and evil is not evil..it is lies...when we overcome our own lies there is only truth.  We cannot change anyone else..but when we are fully LOVE then we spread it everywhere--  spread it around the world just by sending it and you dont even need to give a bhandhan, just send it out.    I had to face my reactions to false gurus.  I have friends who read Osho,and other gurus and it is fine with me, whoever is ready is getting realized, not by what they read but by their own spirit.  I love all my friends and I really respect whatever they resonate with.  Whatever we react to we create an obstacle to TRUTH..so allow things to be as they are and fully accept it unless you can change it.  But trust me that it is easier to change ourselves than it is to change any one else.
                                                      I am still experimenting and undoing--- why do I feel vibrations or energy when I dont see Shri Mataji as more than a guru?  when I am no longer in SY?  are these conditioned feelings?  I will experiment ..because there is something aware of those feelings..and those feelings are not me but are felt...the total background when I can no longer identify with something other than just BEING in total silent presence...that is Ultimate.
                                                      Love and light
                                                       
                                                       

                                                      --- On Sat, 2/19/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                                                      From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                                      Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                                      To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Received: Saturday, February 19, 2011, 6:29 PM

                                                       
                                                      Have you realised yet that we are both saying the same thing, just using different words, in a different way ? (:-))

                                                      Sorry if I have opened old wounds for you.

                                                      Sahaja Yoga , as they are written here, is just two words...

                                                      What it means is a different story.

                                                      The meaning of that saying amongst Muslims comes from the fact that we are all born innocent, helpless, at the mercy of things beyond our control, in effect, forcefully surrendered...

                                                      And yet in that state, so long as we are well taken care of  we are completely free, more than we ever will be in ourlives, because we have no thought or expectatin of anything, all is a wonderful joygiving mystery, so long as we are taken care of...

                                                      Kundalini is our Mother inside us, this you know .... so why worry about what other's think ?! You do so because you don't want to offend anyone...but sometimes you have to offend in order to show the truth isn't it...!!!

                                                      I too was scorned by people for leaving my angry caught up Sahaj marriage...so, they would never understand until it happens to them...and I pray it never does because it's not nice...

                                                      I eneded up marrying someone wjom I chose for myself, and still it was horrendous, for a long time, and guess what,  I realised we were both to blame,and if I changed myself things would get better...now we are like two peas in pod enjoying, especially after knowing how foolish we had both been before...people only fight when they scared....one who knows their self is automatically never scared.

                                                      So now I am able to be one with my SELF, and am no longer afraid, and can go anywhere with confidence, and Love in my heart.

                                                      Jai Shri Mataji

                                                      P.S. EVERYTHING is 'MahaMaya' , it simply means 'Great Mystery'...even my cat is 'Maha Maya'

                                                      As Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi Shrivastava herself once said...'Even this stone is God, the thing is it can't REALISE it'...it's inconcievable, but felt as Love and Truth by human beings who's desire is pure and peaceful.

                                                      Life is what one makes it, within the boundaries of nature.

                                                      Sorry for your troubles...one can only know it if one has walked in those shoes...I wouyld not wish that anyone should walk in mine.

                                                      with Love, always.



                                                      From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                                      To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Sent: Saturday, 19 February, 2011 7:42:29
                                                      Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                                       
                                                      Do you know what Muslims believe?  That all are born to Islam.  Meaning all are born in submission to God.  This is as true as your statement.  Does it mean we have to separate each other and fear each other for not being in THAT?  Just so you know---  I was as deep as anyone can get in Sahaja Yoga for many many years.  The reason I left is because of other's fear of my divorce--they were scared that SY would get a bad name---that is how fearful people are in there! and uncompassionate as a result.. but my years there I felt vibrations with ease, and I have been a very clear person--- people know me as a very pure soul.  I am not against SY.  I feel that people should evolve past feeling vibrations, past fears of others, past separation of groups and judgement of each other.  You dont see it, but you are conditioned into group belief aside from vibrations.  And vibrations change all the time.  You can feel one person now and tomorrow feel him or her again and it might change---it will change for sure all the time...but many judge them from that moment they check.  There is a lot of fears in the group.  It is important to note them down when you introspect and overcome them.  I am not here to condemn but to really open your eyes if possible.  I said it before---Mahamaya is maya, but your spirit will never delude you---NEVER.  All is God and your experience of reality and others completely reflects from you.  Without you, you wouldnt see others nor this world as you see them...without YOU you would not feel what you feel, nor realize what you realize.  No one can transform you but your self by your own desire and will and readiness (even Shri Mataji says this!).  And this will happen under any circumstances which has no name, or organization or religion or meditation group.  Spirit even has a name that we gave it, but it still IS whether we name it or not...so you can call people or self realization as Sahaja yoga or sahaja yogies or  what you like, it doesnt mean that is what they are, that is what you think they are by your belief--and beliefs are man made.  

                                                      --- On Sat, 2/19/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                                                      From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                                      Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                                      To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Received: Saturday, February 19, 2011, 12:02 AM

                                                       
                                                      ...in that respect, anyone who is self-realised is a Sahaja Yogi; someone in the sate of Yoga, which is something that happens spontaneously through the opening of the Sahasrara.






                                                      From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                                      To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 22:15:37
                                                      Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                                       
                                                      Someone is only 'in Sahaja Yoga' if they are aware of themselves and remain in that awareness.

                                                      Sahaja Yoga is a state of BEING, that's why ot is called pure religion...Religion itself is an process of introspection, something that is undertaken...again people use concepts to suti their awareness of the world and their place in it.

                                                      Attempts at organising religion, the aspiration, is also being religious, until that is the spontanaity is lost amidst dogmatism born of people who do not know their SELF and so do not know true freedom.



                                                      From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                                      To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 21:54:17
                                                      Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                                       
                                                      In other words, Sahaja Yoga has NOTHING to do with beingness and existance..it is for some, a way to get to  THEIR OWN awareness but it is not awareness itself nor beingness itself.  It is still a lable and an illusion, and so the same would be any Guru...a finger pointing at the moon is not the moon.  All ends up in "I AM"  God is also "I AM" and so is each of us..meaning all is the same, us, incarnations,all the same! " I AM" is the basis and that can happen to anyone at any point in time when one is ready by any means, not just Sahaja Yoga.  I have met very mature saintly people who havent even heard of Sahaja Yoga. 

                                                      --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...> wrote:

                                                      From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                                      Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                                      To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 9:46 PM

                                                       

                                                      Yes...but are all BEINGS IN Sahaja yoga?  does beingness require that one should be a Sahaja Yogi?  Is existance without meaning without Sahaja Yoga? Sahaja Yoga is a teaching or the return to our selves, but we should graduate at some point, just like you do from school.  Become truly your own master and rely on your inner self.
                                                      --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                                                      From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                                      Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                                      To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 8:48 PM

                                                       
                                                      Sahaja Yoga is a state of being, Shri Mataji has always taught from that perspective...hence the essence of absloute truth being in all things. It's only the mind that interprets things wrongly.



                                                      From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                                      To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 19:19:59
                                                      Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                                       
                                                       The main thing I have learned is that one is ONE within spirit and and even kundalini is part of creation.  Vibrations I have found are not that much above thinking..that if you keep relying on such, you will be stuck in a web of negative and positive which is duality...it doesn not make you go that much higher than that.  Only connecting to the spirit totally without any distractions of the outside will one find the most powerful energy which is spirit and that is who we are.  It is unfair to claim that ex-members are not true seekers. All are spirit and all will get there! There are no chose ones.  All are chosen and all will arrive sooner or later because God is everyone of us non excluded!!!
                                                       I felt stuck after a while of not seeing any improvements on me or my sahaj siblings...all were so distracted trying to organize the group.  I no longer felt I was "evolving" at that slow pace.  Eventually we have to unplug from all group systems and unite as one...spirit doesnt know any name such as sahaja yoga..it is still creation...while spirit observes many things are created.  It is really true that when in a group one goes with the 'flock" and does not really take responsability to get rid of fears etc.   I found that I was afraid to leave sahaja yoga scared that I would no longer feel vibrations...well guess what....I feel an amazing energy which is my spirit and incredible intuition much more powerful than I ever did before.   ALl is a part of evolution and so was SY for me..but that is not the ultimate.  There are no rights and wrongs and no mistakes in life...nothing I regret....but I am not staying in the fears of group conditionings.  I wish all would see how many conditionings you have aquired in SY too...and how much you fear to even hug your parents who are not in sahaja yoga because they have negativity?  isnt this fear?  how can your heart be open with that kind of fear?  if we separate we are not being in spirit...anything that separates is ego!  non-sahaja yogies vs sahaja yogies IS separation...and that fear will limit you.  It is your choice.  I love the entire world and feel all in me and me in all. 

                                                      --- On Fri, 1/28/11, talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                                      From: talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com>
                                                      Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                                      To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Received: Friday, January 28, 2011, 7:00 AM

                                                       

                                                      Hey
                                                      still alive and kicking...
                                                      check out www.shri-mataji.org and www.sahajayogafacs.info

                                                      cheers
                                                      s.

                                                      --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, "victorysnear" <victorysnear@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > I know it's been a very hard job for all those wonderful ex sahaja yogis to keep this place working. You've given so much to others here! I'll never thank you enough.
                                                      > Even though, I think time has come to change this place. Make a Blog out of it. Keep the memory of your past for other victims of this dreadful cult and don't let this place fall into the hands of sy cult. I know each of you has your own busy life, you're so clever and bright, interested in your families, in culture and in fun too. You have moved on, I know. You deserve it. But the work you've done must be kept for others until sy disapears, it won't be a long time, victory's near...
                                                      > My regards to TASY group
                                                      > Vic
                                                      >
                                                      > --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, isaac iba <iba22000@> wrote:
                                                      > >
                                                      > > hi noé, i'm too here in this group to talk about my deeply experiences with
                                                      > > sahaja yoga ,i think we are so lucky to be a sahaja yogi ,but a good because
                                                      > > many persons whose was abuse with a false or bad sahaja yogi have now a bad
                                                      > > experience about sahaja yoga and some of them who wasn't a true seekers feel
                                                      > > deception but i want to encourage you to be sincere with the relationship
                                                      > > between you and the mother kundalini whose have been awakened by the power of
                                                      > > shri mataji...
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > ________________________________
                                                      > > De : Noe Fosso Kamga <nfossokamga@>
                                                      > > À : talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                      > > Envoyé le : Mer 15 décembre 2010, 15h 06min 45s
                                                      > > Objet : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Hi, my name is Fosso Kamga Noe.I have been a sahaja yogi since five years.I want
                                                      > > here in this group, to talk about what I feel in sahaja yoga.I want to say what
                                                      > > great bliss is the work doing by Shri mataji. and I hope, all of members of the
                                                      > > group, will understand and share with me.
                                                      > >
                                                      >








                                                    • Clive Bates
                                                      For me it was experiencing huge physical,mental and emotional challenges in early life, coupled with the concious awareness that, through all that there was
                                                      Message 27 of 29 , Feb 20, 2011
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        For me it was experiencing huge physical,mental and emotional challenges in early life, coupled with the concious awareness that, through all that there was a kind of grace, sustaining and nurturing me that I could enjoy...because no one else was doing so, in fact quite the opposite.

                                                        While growing up I tried desperately to think and behave like everyone else, to fit  in, but nothing could match the fulfillment of the down to earth, simple, peace and tranquility I had felt while thoughtlessly aware of the divine grace that sustained me, in the moment, without my doing anything other than breathing and enjoying....such peace and innocent joy...if all could feel it there would be no ill feeling in the world.

                                                        One instant in awareness of that peace is worth a whole life time.

                                                        Thank you dear sister for your commitment to the truth. I know it is all we can do because that is what we are.

                                                        I know there are many in the world desperately seeking this truth.

                                                        Love and Light.


                                                        From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                                        To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Sent: Monday, 21 February, 2011 1:53:13
                                                        Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                                         

                                                        HI Clive:
                                                         
                                                        I think we have made an incredible use of this site and I am grateful for this exchange, mostly because I have been carrying a bit of resentment and yet I am grateful for getting to the awareness where I can be completely IN spirit at any given moment.  I am grateful to everyone who has been in my life and whether we know it or not, we do chose our experiences by the energies of desire, attraction and reaction---none of which I would condemn but which are tools that guide us towards facing ourselves if we detach and are aware to it all.  I had felt a victim of many things throught my life, and it would have been easy to feel a victim of Sahaja Yoga just because I was in that energy identification to begin with.  I had to recognize and move away from that identification and know that I am spirit and that everyone and everything in my life is just precisely God conspiring my return to God and everything including Sahaja Yoga set the stage for me.  Yogies checked at one point if I had been born realized (I knew I wasnt) and they told me I was not born realized, but what made me grow very deep was my thirst for God-- for oneness.  This never stopped and I never gave up---it was not "by the way" and it was very much my number one desire and I knew it always that it is real--not a philosophy.  Someone said to me that life is cruel---but this is perception.  Life is life and we can create our perception to it and we can identify with whichever role we chose to.  Life is what it is and our reaction can tell us otherwise.  You reminded me that people who are seeking--many come from a very depressive, painful situations and identification with many things., and that their experience will include these personal identifications which will hopefully melt away.  It is true that all of us have approached spirituality through the mind and not spirit itself.  Each one is resposible to use experiences to aid the return to spirit and not get caught in victim identity or spiritual identities too.  .
                                                        No matter what one is following, group,guru, etc---awakening is individual and we can place many excuses not to BE...because the ego wants people to believe that it is spirit.  We must remember that Spirituality is in the mind while spirit IS.   Grace is always present but one has to connect to it. 
                                                        I have a choice of how I feel about it all and I KNOW that I am deeply grateful. 
                                                        Blessings, love and light
                                                        --- On Sun, 2/20/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                                                        From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                                        Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments [1 Attachment]
                                                        To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Received: Sunday, February 20, 2011, 6:56 AM

                                                         
                                                        Hello

                                                        Yes, I understand, I have been fighting with an open heart all my life...the weapons are Truth and Love, beyond concept.

                                                        The reason for the lies in the group that calls itself SY is because there is a misidentification that SY is a group (the old herd mentality / animal instinct / residual subconcious conditioning from instictive behaviour that helped us to evolve, but which is now obsolete, but remains so long as the individual continues to identify with superficiality )

                                                        Sahaja Yoga means Spontaneous Union of body, mind, emotions, with pure spirit...it is a state of being each person has to become one with as an individual...only if people do that is there any chance of a group thing being successful...but that is the desire of good people for the world...wether thay call themselves Sahaja Yogis or not...so I want to be a part of that, otherwise what reason is there for living...not to sit at home and 'enjoy'...the whole world has always been my family, that is why I know that collectivity means knowing oneself as the Spirit, not as a memeber of a group, I have always known that....and I get a lot of abuse for it.

                                                        As for everything else you say...I always remember Blake's depiction of Job when he was confronted with the truth of his own superficial faith...it came to him as a vision of the devil hovering over him while he lay sick and in despair, facing the hell of his own making...conscience....the same vision gradually turned into an image of God as Job came to realise his self...his ego finally surrendering and heart opening to true divinity in himself. I've attached a picture of it in case you're interested.

                                                        From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                                        To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Sent: Sunday, 20 February, 2011 5:34:52
                                                        Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                                         
                                                        Hi Clive,
                                                         
                                                        Thank you for your quotes and comments.  "demons" is nothing but ego and ego is nothing but lies.  The only hell there is is the resistance to what is whether it shows it self as resistance to the outside or inside--it is all within.  Whatever we resist persists.  So many people keep fighting and resisting.  Becoming a warrior would mean with total open heart and not with fear or with hate.  I wanted to say one more thing, Clive, and that is that many yogies throught the years have hidden "life situations" from the general public because they wanted to glamourize Sahaja Yoga.  Things happened--people got ill, people died,attacked each other, still some caught in terror attacks or natural disasters, but only the "miracles" were reported. As if only a few are protected...if it was so, the entire world would not be here!   Is this all, not denial of life as fear?  So what if something happens, this is life and it was created in such a way for a reason.  One has a choice to see life as perfect as it is, or imperfect in everything.  I prefer to see it as perfect, that even so called mistakes have their own meaning in the web of maya--a door way out of maya.   That life and its dark aspects are there to show us the way to self love and self mastery.  That without the duality there is no plot for this creation, and yet we are battling with inner resistance, the very story that all of us plotted together as co-creators.  Didnt then we create "hell" just from our own resistance to life?  The inner state of mankind is "hell" because of its lack of understanding and illusive idea of separation to source, and the resistance to acceptance of ourselves through awareness?  If we truly want to transform ourselves we have to truly see our inner state without denial and resistance to our feelings and thoughts...embrace it all without resistance, then shed light to it to melt it away with loving awareness.  We might not see that we have the capacity to create our surroundings, but we do just by the way we are aware within.  How we react we attract that energy from within on the outside.  It is really really powerful energy.  Whatever we are facing, whomever we meet, it is a reflection of our inner state.  And all that we experience is loving messages and so are the people that come to us--they will tell us exactly what we need to hear to overcome certain things---we are constantly teaching and learning from each other.  

                                                        --- On Sun, 2/20/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                                                        From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                                        Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                                        To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Received: Sunday, February 20, 2011, 12:01 AM

                                                         
                                                        Ah, that's so great....

                                                        The vibrations are only felt because of the physical part of us, it shows that the central nervous system is being sufficiently nourished to ensure a healthy  body, mind, and emotions. When the Sahasrara opens fully there is no mental identity with the body it appears as distinctly seperate from the conciousness and their is no sensation of the nerves or anything felt, all the physical operates autonomously and unconciously....awareness is fully in the heart at that point and one is only the witness...no attachment, no 'other', no 'I', and no reaction, no feeling of want of loss, just pure unconditional awareness of being, relief, completeness, without those concepts coming into the attention, or any geting all emotional about it..it's a precious state of being...keep on undoing those bindings on the heart, with Love...I believe that that is what everyone, conciously and unconciously, are really looking for in Life...unfortunately there are many who fall into despair when they should be forgiving.

                                                        I will keep on fighting those 'demons' so that others can get there too and peace can come on earth...

                                                        Whenever I have worshipped 'Shri Mataji' it has always been with the complete understanding that the person sitting infront of me is merely trying to represent to us the autonomy of the forces of nature, by characterising them in such a manner that the autonmous nervous system gets a chance to do it's thing, devoid of the demands upon the nervous system caused by chaotic thinking and emotions...it's a technique that works, that's all....

                                                        More blessed still are those who no longer need techniques. This has always been what that lady who knew herself and the world well enough to embark on a project to make it easier for people to realise their SELF  has always wanted.

                                                        I mentioned the negativity and suffering in the world because it is happening and it is not necessary if there is an easier way to satisfy and negate our animalisitc behaviour...evolution is at a point where people have to conciously make the right choices if the human species is not going to succumb to self-destruction....so what I meant was, all the negativity in the group is like a training ground to make us resilient and able to prove to people that a realised soul can go through anything, thereby giving encouragement to those who find themselves in the terrible situations around the world, that, Yes, it is best to listen to that 'still and small voice' within whenit cries out for justice, but to achieve that justice and equality of recognition we first need to be something ourselves.

                                                        All have to start from somewhere and grow, so techniques and concepts are useful to have around for those who need them.

                                                        For one who enjoys words like I do the extract below was a great for clarifying that relationship we feel in being identified exclusively with our SELF while symultaneously acting out our daily lives in innocence.

                                                        BODHA ATMAN (...where "I am" is deeply established in the soul as Love.

                                                        CHAPTER XXXII. - Mahâpurânam S'rî Mad Devî Bhâgavatam by Maharsi Veda Vyâsa
                                                         
                                                        1-50. The Devî said:--"Hear, ye Immortals! My words with attention, that I am now going to speak to you, hearing which will enable the Jîvas to realise My Essence. Before the creation, I, only I, existed; nothing else was existent then. My Real Self is known by the names Chit, Sambit (Intelligence), Para Brahma and others. My Âtman is beyond mind, beyond thought, beyond any name or mark, without any parallel, and beyond birth, death or any other change or transformation. My Self has one inherent power called Mâyâ. This Mâyâ is not existent, nor non-existent, nor can it be called both. This unspeakable substance Mâyâ always exists (till the final emancipation or Moksha).
                                                         
                                                        Mâyâ can be destroyed by Brahmna Jñâna; so it can not be called existent, again if Mâyâ does not exist, the practical world catinot exist. So it cannot be called non-existent. Of course it cannot be called both, for it would involve contradictions. This Mâyâ (without beginning but with end at the time of Moksha) naturally arises as heat comes out of fire, as the rays come out of the Sun and as the cooling rays come out of the Moon. Just as all the Karmas of the Jîvas dissolve in deep sleep (S'usupti), so at the time of Pralaya or the General Dissolution, the Karmas of the Jîvas, the Jîvas and Time all become merged, in one uniform mass in this great Mâyâ. United with My S'aktî, I am the Cause of this world; this S'aktî has this defect that it has the power of hiding Me, its Originator.
                                                         
                                                        I am Nirguna. And when I am united with my S'aktî, Mâyâ, 1 become Saguns, the Great Cause of this world. This Mâyâ is divided into two, Vidyâ and Avidyâ. Avidyâ Mâyâ hides Me; whereas Vidyâ Mâyâ does not. Avidyâ creates whereas Vidyâ Mâyâ liberates.
                                                         
                                                        Mâyâ united with Chaitanya (Intelligence), i. e., Chidâbhâsa is the efficient cause of this Universe; whereas Mâyâ reduced to and united with five original elements is the material Cause of the Universe. Some call this Mâyâ tapas; some call Her inert, material; some call Her knowledge; some call Her Mâyâ, Pradhâna, Prakriti, Ajâ (unborn) and sonic others call Her S'aktî. The S'aiva authors call Her Vimars'a and the other Vedântists call Her Avidyâ; in short, this Mâyâ is in the heads of all the Pundits. This Mâyâ is called various in the Nigamas.
                                                        p. 738
                                                         
                                                        That which is seen is inert; for this reason Mâyâ is Jada (inert) and as the knowledge it conveys is destroyed, it is false. Chaitanya (Intelligence) is not seen; if It were seen, it would have been Jada. Chaitanya is self-luminous; not illumined by any other source. Were It so, Its Enlightener would have to be illumined by some other. thing and so the fallacy of Anavasthâ creeps in (an endless series of causes and effects). Again one thing cannot be the actor and the thing, acted upon (being contrary to each other); so Chaitanya cannot be illumined by itself. So It is Self-luminous; and it illumines Sun, Moon, etc., as a lamp is self-luminous and illumines other objects. So, O Mountain! This My Intelligence is established as eternal and everlasting. The waking, dreaming and deep sleep states do not remain constant but the sense of "I" remains the same, whether in waking, dreaming or deep sleep state; its anomaly is never felt. (The Bauddhas say that) The sense of ntelligence, Jñâna, is also not, felt; there in the absence of it; so what is existent is also temporarily existent. But (it can then be argued that) then the Witness by which that absence is sensed, that Intelligence, in the shape of the Witness, is eternal. So the Pundits of all the reasonable S'âstras declare that Samvit (Intelligence) is Eternal and it is Blissful the fountain of all love. Never the Jîvas or embodied souls feel "I am not"; but "I am" this feeling is deeply established in the soul as Love.
                                                         
                                                        Thus it is clearly evident that I am quite Separate from anything else which are all false. Also I am one continuous (no interval or separation existing within Me). Again Jñâna is not the Dharma (the natural quality) of Âtman but it is of the very nature of Âtman. If Jñâna ware the Dharma of Âtman, then Jñâna would have been material; so Jñâna is immaterial. If (for argument's sake) Jñâna be denominated as material, that cannot be. For Jñâna is of the nature of Intelligence and Âtman is of the the nature of Intelligence. Intelligence has not the attribute of being Dharma. Here the thing Chit is not different from its quality (Chit). So Âtman is always of the nature of Jñâna and happiness; Its nature is Truth; It is always Full, unattached and void of duality. This Âtman again, united with Mâyâ, composed of desires and Karmas, wants to create, due to the want of discrimination, the twenty-four tattvas, according to the previous Samskâras (tendencies), time and Karma. O Mountain! The re-awakening after Pralaya Susupti is not done with Buddhi (for then Buddhi is not at all manifested). So this creation is said to be effected without any Buddhi (proper intelligence). O Chief of the Immovables! The Tattva (Reality) that I have spoken to you is most excellent and it is my Extraordinary Form merely. In the Vedas it is known as Avyâkrita (unmodified), Avyakta (unmanifested)
                                                        p. 709
                                                         
                                                        Mâyâ S'abala (divided into various parts) and so forth. In all tlkc S'âstras, it is stated to be the Cause of all causes, the Primeval Tattva and Sachchidlinanda Vigraba. Where all the Karmas are solidified and where Ichchâ S'aktî, (will), Jñâna S'aktî (intelligence) and Kriyâ S'aktî (action) all are melted in one, that is called the Mantra Hrîm, that is the first Tattva. From this comes out Âkâsa, having the property of sound, thence Vâyu (air) with "touch" property; then fire with form, then water having "Rasa" property; and lastly the earth having the quality "smell." The Pundits say that the "sound" is the only quality of Âkâsa; air has two qualities viz., sound and touch, fire has three qualities sound, touch, form; water has four qualities sound, touch, form, taste; and the earth has five qualities sound, touch, form, taste and smell, Out of these five original elements, the allpervading, Sûtra (string or thread) arose. This Sûtrâtman (soul) is called the "Linga Deha," comprising within itself all the Prânas; this is the subtle body of the Paramâtman. And what is said in the previous lines as Avyakta or Unmainfested and in which the Seed of the World is involved and whence the Linga Deha has sprung, that is called the Causal body (Kârana body) of the Paramâtman. The five original elements (Apañchikrita called the five Tan Mâtrâs) being created, next by the Pañchîkarana process, the gross elements are created. The process is now being stated:--O Girijâ! Each of the five original elements is divided into two parts; one part of each of which is subdivided into four parts. This fourth part of each is united with the half of four other elements different from it and thus each gross element is formed. By these five gross elements, the Cosmic (Virât) body is formed and this is called the Gross Body of the God. Jñânendriyas (the organs of knowledge) arise from Sattva Gunas of each of these five elements. Again the Sattva Gunas of each of the Jñânendriyas united become the Antah Karanâni. This Antah karana is of four kinds, according as its functions vary. When it is engaged in forming Sankalpas, resolves, and Vikalpas (doubts) it is called "mind." When it is free from doubts and when it arrives at the decisive conclusion, it is called "Chitta"; and when it rests simply on itself in the shape of the feeling "I", it is called Ahamkâra. From the Rajo Guna of each of the five elements arises Vâk (speech), Pâni (hands) Pâda (feet), Pâyu (Anus) and Upastha (organs of generation). Again their Rajo parts united give rise to the five Prânas (Prâna, Apâna, Samâna, Udâna and Vyâna) the Prâna Vayu resides in the heart; Apâna Vayu in the Arms; Samâna Vayu resides in the Navel; Udâna Vayu rasides in the Throat; and the Vyâna Vâyu resides, pervading all over the body. My subtle body (Linga Deha) arises from the union of the five
                                                        p. 710
                                                         
                                                        Jñânendriyas, the five Karmendriyas (organs of action), the five Pranas and the mind and Buddhi, these seventeen elements. And the Prakriti that resides there is divided into two parts; one is pure (Suddha Satbva) Mâyâ and the other is the impure Mâyâ or Avidyâ united with the Gunas. By Mâyâ is meant She, who, without concealing Her refugees, protects them. When the Supreme Self is reflected on this S'uddha Sattva, Mâyâ, He is called Îs'vara. This Saddha Mâyâ does not conceal Brahma, its receptacle; therefore She knows the All-pervading Brahma and She is omniscient, omnipotent, the Lady of all and confors favours and blessings on all. When the Supreme Self is reflected on the Impure Mâyâ or Avidyâ, He is called Jîva. This Avidyâ conceals Brahma, Whose nature is Happiness; therefore this Jîva is the source of all miseries. Both Îs'vara and Jîva have, by the influence of Vidyâ and Avidyâ three bodies and three names. When the Jîva lives in his causal body, he is named Prâjna; when he lives in subtle body he is known as Taijasa; while he has the gross body, he is called Vis'va. So when Îs'vara is in His causal body, he is denominated Îs'a; when He is in His subtle body, he is known as Sûtra; and when He is in His groqs body, He is known as Virât.
                                                         
                                                        The Jîva glories in having three (as above-mentioned) kinds of differentiated bodies and Îs'vara glories in having three (as above-mentioned) kinds of cosmic bodies. Thus Îs'vara is the Lord of all and though He feels Himself always happy and satisfied, yet to favour the Jîvas and to give them liberation (Moksa) He has created various sorts of worldly things for their Bhogas (enjoyments). This Îs'vara creates all the Universe, impelled by My Brahma S'aktî. I am of the nature of Brahma; and Îs'vara in conceived in Me as a snake is imagined in a rope. Therefore Îs'vara has to remain dependent on My S'akti.
                                                         
                                                        Here ends the Thirty-second Chapter of the Seventh Book on Self-realization,  in the Mahâpurnam S'rî Mad Devî Bhâgavatam, of 18,000 verses, by Maharsi Veda Vyâsa.
                                                         


                                                        From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                                        To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Sent: Saturday, 19 February, 2011 23:01:58
                                                        Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                                         
                                                        HI Clive,
                                                         
                                                        Yes, ultimately we are talking the same thing.  There are differences.  I know Shri Mataji was my spiritual teacher for many years, but I no longer worship her nor have the understanding of it. Everything melts in ONENESS and to worship is to separate, and to put one above or below another person is still illusive.  What do incarnations represent other than our higher self?  The Son of man you can call Christ but it is all of us as ONE.   During these past two years, my transformation has been really incredible to such an experience where I pray and I feel like my own spirit is praying to itself..there is no separation anymore.  It doesn't seem as difficult as it was but it does take a lot.
                                                        You have not opened any wounds because I am dealing with my emotions and thoughts as they come.  There is nothing I hide from myself anymore.  Being aware is precisely being in touch with everything that is happening within.  If an emotion comes up, I will treat it like I would a small child--with love and understanding and then release it.  
                                                        I dont care what Sahaja Yogies think of me, specially because if they think negative, it is from their own perception which has much to do with them and not me.  I no longer care to return to the group because I dont need to.  My intuitive self is incredible and each one of us has it.  Intuition goes beyond vibrations and if you are in touch with it, it will answer all your questions.  There are many many loving people in the world and the entire world is our family.
                                                        You asked about bad or evil.  Dont fixate yourself on it.  The only way to transform this world is by fully being YOU /LOVE.  You will begin to see everyone as complete, even the people who havent felt complete.  By feeling their complete self, they will begin to feel their own and transform.  The body gets sick because we identify with it, and with the illness...whatever we identify with is our reality.  If  you identify with "the evil of the world" then you are not helping to disolve it.  I believe in what the Toltecs said that the big maya is actually the illusion that there is good against evil---this is so not true---it is just truth and lies and evil is not evil..it is lies...when we overcome our own lies there is only truth.  We cannot change anyone else..but when we are fully LOVE then we spread it everywhere--  spread it around the world just by sending it and you dont even need to give a bhandhan, just send it out.    I had to face my reactions to false gurus.  I have friends who read Osho,and other gurus and it is fine with me, whoever is ready is getting realized, not by what they read but by their own spirit.  I love all my friends and I really respect whatever they resonate with.  Whatever we react to we create an obstacle to TRUTH..so allow things to be as they are and fully accept it unless you can change it.  But trust me that it is easier to change ourselves than it is to change any one else.
                                                        I am still experimenting and undoing--- why do I feel vibrations or energy when I dont see Shri Mataji as more than a guru?  when I am no longer in SY?  are these conditioned feelings?  I will experiment ..because there is something aware of those feelings..and those feelings are not me but are felt...the total background when I can no longer identify with something other than just BEING in total silent presence...that is Ultimate.
                                                        Love and light
                                                         
                                                         

                                                        --- On Sat, 2/19/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                                                        From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                                        Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                                        To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Received: Saturday, February 19, 2011, 6:29 PM

                                                         
                                                        Have you realised yet that we are both saying the same thing, just using different words, in a different way ? (:-))

                                                        Sorry if I have opened old wounds for you.

                                                        Sahaja Yoga , as they are written here, is just two words...

                                                        What it means is a different story.

                                                        The meaning of that saying amongst Muslims comes from the fact that we are all born innocent, helpless, at the mercy of things beyond our control, in effect, forcefully surrendered...

                                                        And yet in that state, so long as we are well taken care of  we are completely free, more than we ever will be in ourlives, because we have no thought or expectatin of anything, all is a wonderful joygiving mystery, so long as we are taken care of...

                                                        Kundalini is our Mother inside us, this you know .... so why worry about what other's think ?! You do so because you don't want to offend anyone...but sometimes you have to offend in order to show the truth isn't it...!!!

                                                        I too was scorned by people for leaving my angry caught up Sahaj marriage...so, they would never understand until it happens to them...and I pray it never does because it's not nice...

                                                        I eneded up marrying someone wjom I chose for myself, and still it was horrendous, for a long time, and guess what,  I realised we were both to blame,and if I changed myself things would get better...now we are like two peas in pod enjoying, especially after knowing how foolish we had both been before...people only fight when they scared....one who knows their self is automatically never scared.

                                                        So now I am able to be one with my SELF, and am no longer afraid, and can go anywhere with confidence, and Love in my heart.

                                                        Jai Shri Mataji

                                                        P.S. EVERYTHING is 'MahaMaya' , it simply means 'Great Mystery'...even my cat is 'Maha Maya'

                                                        As Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi Shrivastava herself once said...'Even this stone is God, the thing is it can't REALISE it'...it's inconcievable, but felt as Love and Truth by human beings who's desire is pure and peaceful.

                                                        Life is what one makes it, within the boundaries of nature.

                                                        Sorry for your troubles...one can only know it if one has walked in those shoes...I wouyld not wish that anyone should walk in mine.

                                                        with Love, always.



                                                        From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                                        To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Sent: Saturday, 19 February, 2011 7:42:29
                                                        Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                                         
                                                        Do you know what Muslims believe?  That all are born to Islam.  Meaning all are born in submission to God.  This is as true as your statement.  Does it mean we have to separate each other and fear each other for not being in THAT?  Just so you know---  I was as deep as anyone can get in Sahaja Yoga for many many years.  The reason I left is because of other's fear of my divorce--they were scared that SY would get a bad name---that is how fearful people are in there! and uncompassionate as a result.. but my years there I felt vibrations with ease, and I have been a very clear person--- people know me as a very pure soul.  I am not against SY.  I feel that people should evolve past feeling vibrations, past fears of others, past separation of groups and judgement of each other.  You dont see it, but you are conditioned into group belief aside from vibrations.  And vibrations change all the time.  You can feel one person now and tomorrow feel him or her again and it might change---it will change for sure all the time...but many judge them from that moment they check.  There is a lot of fears in the group.  It is important to note them down when you introspect and overcome them.  I am not here to condemn but to really open your eyes if possible.  I said it before---Mahamaya is maya, but your spirit will never delude you---NEVER.  All is God and your experience of reality and others completely reflects from you.  Without you, you wouldnt see others nor this world as you see them...without YOU you would not feel what you feel, nor realize what you realize.  No one can transform you but your self by your own desire and will and readiness (even Shri Mataji says this!).  And this will happen under any circumstances which has no name, or organization or religion or meditation group.  Spirit even has a name that we gave it, but it still IS whether we name it or not...so you can call people or self realization as Sahaja yoga or sahaja yogies or  what you like, it doesnt mean that is what they are, that is what you think they are by your belief--and beliefs are man made.  

                                                        --- On Sat, 2/19/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                                                        From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                                        Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                                        To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Received: Saturday, February 19, 2011, 12:02 AM

                                                         
                                                        ...in that respect, anyone who is self-realised is a Sahaja Yogi; someone in the sate of Yoga, which is something that happens spontaneously through the opening of the Sahasrara.






                                                        From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                                        To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 22:15:37
                                                        Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                                         
                                                        Someone is only 'in Sahaja Yoga' if they are aware of themselves and remain in that awareness.

                                                        Sahaja Yoga is a state of BEING, that's why ot is called pure religion...Religion itself is an process of introspection, something that is undertaken...again people use concepts to suti their awareness of the world and their place in it.

                                                        Attempts at organising religion, the aspiration, is also being religious, until that is the spontanaity is lost amidst dogmatism born of people who do not know their SELF and so do not know true freedom.



                                                        From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                                        To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 21:54:17
                                                        Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                                         
                                                        In other words, Sahaja Yoga has NOTHING to do with beingness and existance..it is for some, a way to get to  THEIR OWN awareness but it is not awareness itself nor beingness itself.  It is still a lable and an illusion, and so the same would be any Guru...a finger pointing at the moon is not the moon.  All ends up in "I AM"  God is also "I AM" and so is each of us..meaning all is the same, us, incarnations,all the same! " I AM" is the basis and that can happen to anyone at any point in time when one is ready by any means, not just Sahaja Yoga.  I have met very mature saintly people who havent even heard of Sahaja Yoga. 

                                                        --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...> wrote:

                                                        From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                                        Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                                        To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 9:46 PM

                                                         

                                                        Yes...but are all BEINGS IN Sahaja yoga?  does beingness require that one should be a Sahaja Yogi?  Is existance without meaning without Sahaja Yoga? Sahaja Yoga is a teaching or the return to our selves, but we should graduate at some point, just like you do from school.  Become truly your own master and rely on your inner self.
                                                        --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...> wrote:

                                                        From: Clive Bates <peace_yourchoice@...>
                                                        Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                                        To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Received: Friday, February 18, 2011, 8:48 PM

                                                         
                                                        Sahaja Yoga is a state of being, Shri Mataji has always taught from that perspective...hence the essence of absloute truth being in all things. It's only the mind that interprets things wrongly.



                                                        From: Yogini Kumar <yogini.2012@...>
                                                        To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Sent: Friday, 18 February, 2011 19:19:59
                                                        Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments

                                                         
                                                         The main thing I have learned is that one is ONE within spirit and and even kundalini is part of creation.  Vibrations I have found are not that much above thinking..that if you keep relying on such, you will be stuck in a web of negative and positive which is duality...it doesn not make you go that much higher than that.  Only connecting to the spirit totally without any distractions of the outside will one find the most powerful energy which is spirit and that is who we are.  It is unfair to claim that ex-members are not true seekers. All are spirit and all will get there! There are no chose ones.  All are chosen and all will arrive sooner or later because God is everyone of us non excluded!!!
                                                         I felt stuck after a while of not seeing any improvements on me or my sahaj siblings...all were so distracted trying to organize the group.  I no longer felt I was "evolving" at that slow pace.  Eventually we have to unplug from all group systems and unite as one...spirit doesnt know any name such as sahaja yoga..it is still creation...while spirit observes many things are created.  It is really true that when in a group one goes with the 'flock" and does not really take responsability to get rid of fears etc.   I found that I was afraid to leave sahaja yoga scared that I would no longer feel vibrations...well guess what....I feel an amazing energy which is my spirit and incredible intuition much more powerful than I ever did before.   ALl is a part of evolution and so was SY for me..but that is not the ultimate.  There are no rights and wrongs and no mistakes in life...nothing I regret....but I am not staying in the fears of group conditionings.  I wish all would see how many conditionings you have aquired in SY too...and how much you fear to even hug your parents who are not in sahaja yoga because they have negativity?  isnt this fear?  how can your heart be open with that kind of fear?  if we separate we are not being in spirit...anything that separates is ego!  non-sahaja yogies vs sahaja yogies IS separation...and that fear will limit you.  It is your choice.  I love the entire world and feel all in me and me in all. 

                                                        --- On Fri, 1/28/11, talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                                        From: talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com <talk-about-sahaja-yoga-owner@yahoogroups.com>
                                                        Subject: Re: Re : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                                        To: talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Received: Friday, January 28, 2011, 7:00 AM

                                                         

                                                        Hey
                                                        still alive and kicking...
                                                        check out www.shri-mataji.org and www.sahajayogafacs.info

                                                        cheers
                                                        s.

                                                        --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, "victorysnear" <victorysnear@...> wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > I know it's been a very hard job for all those wonderful ex sahaja yogis to keep this place working. You've given so much to others here! I'll never thank you enough.
                                                        > Even though, I think time has come to change this place. Make a Blog out of it. Keep the memory of your past for other victims of this dreadful cult and don't let this place fall into the hands of sy cult. I know each of you has your own busy life, you're so clever and bright, interested in your families, in culture and in fun too. You have moved on, I know. You deserve it. But the work you've done must be kept for others until sy disapears, it won't be a long time, victory's near...
                                                        > My regards to TASY group
                                                        > Vic
                                                        >
                                                        > --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, isaac iba <iba22000@> wrote:
                                                        > >
                                                        > > hi noé, i'm too here in this group to talk about my deeply experiences with
                                                        > > sahaja yoga ,i think we are so lucky to be a sahaja yogi ,but a good because
                                                        > > many persons whose was abuse with a false or bad sahaja yogi have now a bad
                                                        > > experience about sahaja yoga and some of them who wasn't a true seekers feel
                                                        > > deception but i want to encourage you to be sincere with the relationship
                                                        > > between you and the mother kundalini whose have been awakened by the power of
                                                        > > shri mataji...
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > > ________________________________
                                                        > > De : Noe Fosso Kamga <nfossokamga@>
                                                        > > À : talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com
                                                        > > Envoyé le : Mer 15 décembre 2010, 15h 06min 45s
                                                        > > Objet : [talk-about-sy] comments
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Hi, my name is Fosso Kamga Noe.I have been a sahaja yogi since five years.I want
                                                        > > here in this group, to talk about what I feel in sahaja yoga.I want to say what
                                                        > > great bliss is the work doing by Shri mataji. and I hope, all of members of the
                                                        > > group, will understand and share with me.
                                                        > >
                                                        >








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