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Re: Message 16220

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  • lumingatar
    Hello Vic! If someone has been in SY for years, leaving it is a huge change in life, and changes like that create stress and can cause depression. If you have
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 1, 2009
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      Hello Vic!

      If someone has been in SY for years, leaving it is a huge change in life, and changes like that create stress and can cause depression.

      If you have been truly in, the foundations of your world view are shaking when you leave. Maybe you leave because you see how mad it all is. You are disappointed in the people you had trusted, in the guru you have believed in, and in yourself being so naive to swallow that nonsense. Maybe you leave because you think you personally are not good enough for SY, and that is even worse to you well-being.

      Whatever the reason for leaving, the programming does not go away instantly. If you have developed a kind of fear towards non-yogis (which was the case when I was in), it takes time before you are able to trust others again, and connect with other people. Being emotionally and mentally alone in a hostile world is depressing.

      I think that stopping meditation can also cause depression. Despite all the nonsense in the cult I believe that SY meditation is or can be proper meditation. We human beings have a capacity to meditate, and that capacity is nourished in SY. I remember when I was in the middle of all the madness in SY, I thought that without the meditation part I would not have been able to cope with my life at all.

      I stopped meditating for some time after SY, because meditation was connected with SY and Mataji in my mind, and I wanted to get rid of all that. It was good to get rid of all the associations, but stopping meditating did not do me good. Finally I had to remind myself that I used to meditate before SY, and meditation is something that belongs to ME, is good to ME, and not a property of any particular cult.

      Maybe you could encourage your friend to find some other form of meditation, therapy, method, whatever that interests her. I remember how amazing it was to notice that the same state of meditation is achieved in many other ways. And what was better, when there was not any mind controlling cult feeding you its ideologies, you can actually become more free, closer to you real self. Which I believe is the goal of meditation after all.

      Yours,
      Lumi
    • victorysnear
      ... Hello Lumi and thanks so much for your answer! ... She left about 5 years ago, but didn t seem depressed at that time. Love is a sort of healing and it s
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 4, 2009
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        --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, "lumingatar" <lumi.sammallahti@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello Vic!
        Hello Lumi and thanks so much for your answer!
        >
        > If someone has been in SY for years, leaving it is a huge change in life, and changes like that create stress and can cause depression.

        She left about 5 years ago, but didn't seem depressed at that time. Love is a sort of 'healing' and it's what happened when she left the cult. Whwn love is the way out you can't be sure about the future of the victim. Love may not last forever.

        She kept some sort of relationship with some of the members and visited them now and then. Along these 5 years those bonds faded away, but she kept 'meditating' by herself, until she finally stopped it.
        >
        > If you have been truly in, the foundations of your world view are shaking when you leave. Maybe you leave because you see how mad it all is. You are disappointed in the people you had trusted, in the guru you have believed in, and in yourself being so naive to swallow that nonsense. Maybe you leave because you think you personally are not good enough for SY, and that is even worse to you well-being.

        I've been afraid, along these years, about the second option. As she never talks about the cult, I can't tell if it's her case but I'm afraid it may be.

        >
        > Whatever the reason for leaving, the programming does not go away instantly. If you have developed a kind of fear towards non-yogis (which was the case when I was in), it takes time before you are able to trust others again, and connect with other people. Being emotionally and mentally alone in a hostile world is depressing.

        She's not alone, she even kept her previous friends, though couldn'y be so near at that time, when she was in sy.

        >
        > I think that stopping meditation can also cause depression. Despite all the nonsense in the cult I believe that SY meditation is or can be proper meditation. We human beings have a capacity to meditate, and that capacity is nourished in SY. I remember when I was in the middle of all the madness in SY, I thought that without the meditation part I would not have been able to cope with my life at all.

        You surprise me!
        What a bad time you had, I' so sorry.
        >
        > I stopped meditating for some time after SY, because meditation was connected with SY and Mataji in my mind, and I wanted to get rid of all that. It was good to get rid of all the associations, but stopping meditating did not do me good. Finally I had to remind myself that I used to meditate before SY, and meditation is something that belongs to ME, is good to ME, and not a property of any particular cult.

        I see, you found out that you could keep the tool withot keeping the whole thing becoause the tool was yours!
        >
        > Maybe you could encourage your friend to find some other form of meditation, therapy, method, whatever that interests her. I remember how amazing it was to notice that the same state of meditation is achieved in many other ways. And what was better, when there was not any mind controlling cult feeding you its ideologies, you can actually become more free, closer to you real self. Which I believe is the goal of meditation after all.

        I can't do it. She won't mention the cult and won' talk about it. I'll encourage others to do so with her. You have to be careful because many of the offers concerning meditation are linked with cults.
        >
        > Yours,
        > Lumi

        Kind regards
        Vic
        >
      • lumingatar
        Hello again, Vic! ... Yes, and even if it lasts, a relatioship can not give you the answers that you were looking for (and maybe even finding, in a way) in a
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 6, 2009
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          Hello again, Vic!

          >>> She left about 5 years ago, but didn't seem depressed at that time. Love is a sort of 'healing' and it's what happened when she left the cult. Whwn love is the way out you can't be sure about the future of the victim. Love may not last forever. >>>

          Yes, and even if it lasts, a relatioship can not give you the answers that you were looking for (and maybe even finding, in a way) in a cult.

          >
          >>> She kept some sort of relationship with some of the members and visited them now and then. Along these 5 years those bonds faded away, but she kept 'meditating' by herself, until she finally stopped it.>>>

          So it seems she never actually left SY, making a conscious decision. Maybe stopping meditation is something that forces her to open her eyes to the fact that she no longer is a SYogi. Maybe this is the time she has to go through that crisis. She has to decide if she wants to rejoin SY or live her life without it. If this is the case, no wonder she's depressed.



          >
          >>>>> She's not alone, she even kept her previous friends, though couldn'y be so near at that time, when she was in sy.>>>>

          That's nice to hear. But why doesn't she talk about SY with you? Are you sort of distant or is it something that she does not talk about with anyone? Can she share her thoughts and feelings honestly with her friends? Can she talk about her depression and SY with them?

          >
          >>> You have to be careful because many of the offers concerning meditation are linked with cults.>>>


          Yes, that's true, you have to be careful. But not all meditation and bodywork methods are "cultish". But of course SHE should be the one interested in the method, not that others force her to do something. Sometimes you sort of have to be depressed and low, that's the time when you reorientate yourself, find a new way, slow down to see how your life really feels.

          You seemed worried that she'll go back to SY. Maybe she would. But if she has been out for years, it is not that easy to go back. I went back after being out for less than a year, and it was difficult. I was not able to stay. Maybe your friend has to go back to see that she is really out.

          Lumi
        • victorysnear
          ... Hi Lumi! ... Of course not! It s the reason why I kept my fingers crossed during those years. I was afraid she would return. Maybe she s too weak and sy
          Message 4 of 7 , Oct 11, 2009
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            --- In talk-about-sahaja-yoga@yahoogroups.com, "lumingatar" <lumi.sammallahti@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > Hello again, Vic!
            Hi Lumi!
            >
            > >>> She left about 5 years ago, but didn't seem depressed at that time. Love is a sort of 'healing' and it's what happened when she left the cult. Whwn love is the way out you can't be sure about the future of the victim. Love may not last forever. >>>
            >
            > Yes, and even if it lasts, a relatioship can not give you the answers that you were looking for (and maybe even finding, in a way) in a cult.

            Of course not! It's the reason why I kept my fingers crossed during those years. I was afraid she would return. Maybe she's too weak and sy claims to have all the answers and tells it¡s victims that they shall be protected always.
            >
            > >
            > >>> She kept some sort of relationship with some of the members and visited them now and then. Along these 5 years those bonds faded away, but she kept 'meditating' by herself, until she finally stopped it.>>>
            >
            > So it seems she never actually left SY, making a conscious decision. Maybe stopping meditation is something that forces her to open her eyes to the fact that she no longer is a SYogi. Maybe this is the time she has to go through that crisis. She has to decide if she wants to rejoin SY or live her life without it. If this is the case, no wonder she's depressed.

            I'm afraid this is the case. I'll have to wait, keep near and see how shw does.
            >
            >
            >
            > >
            > >>>>> She's not alone, she even kept her previous friends, though couldn'y be so near at that time, when she was in sy.>>>>
            >
            > That's nice to hear. But why doesn't she talk about SY with you? Are you sort of distant or is it something that she does not talk about with anyone? Can she share her thoughts and feelings honestly with her friends? Can she talk about her depression and SY with them?

            Maybe she does, I can't tell. She remains near as long as the sy issue is not considered.
            >
            > >
            > >>> You have to be careful because many of the offers concerning meditation are linked with cults.>>>
            >
            >
            > Yes, that's true, you have to be careful. But not all meditation and bodywork methods are "cultish". But of course SHE should be the one interested in the method, not that others force her to do something. Sometimes you sort of have to be depressed and low, that's the time when you reorientate yourself, find a new way, slow down to see how your life really feels.
            >
            > You seemed worried that she'll go back to SY. Maybe she would. But if she has been out for years, it is not that easy to go back. I went back after being out for less than a year, and it was difficult. I was not able to stay. Maybe your friend has to go back to see that she is really out.

            I hope so, I want her to be out because I remember how miserable she was while in the cult. I could see it in her eyes, in her dull expression. All her friends saw the same. I've seen her back the last years. I've seen her 'bright' once more.

            Sy is hell.

            Thanks Lumi. I'll tell you if something new happens.
            Kind regards
            Vic
            >
            > Lumi
            >
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