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Re: [taigtools] Re: Taig or MaxNC

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  • Tom Benedict
    I ve got a question about that servo version, and the comment about closed-loop always being more accurate than an open-loop stepper system: In looking at the
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 9, 2002
      I've got a question about that servo version, and the comment about
      closed-loop always being more accurate than an open-loop stepper system:

      In looking at the pictures, it looks like the motors and encoders are one
      self-contained unit. It also looks like the lead screws are lead screws
      and not some zero-backlash screw like a ballscrew.

      So if there's still backlash inherent in the system, and you're only
      getting feedback from the motor shaft, I don't see how it's any more
      accurate or repeatable than a stepper system that's not losing steps.

      That last bit, and the ability to drive at higher feed rates, seem to be
      the only advantages I can see from such a system.

      That being said... Has anyone tried to put linear encoders on a Taig
      mill, or has anyone retrofitted one with ballscrews and servos?

      (Honestly I think what I'm asking is out of the range of what would even
      make sense on a mill this size. If I was going to shell out the money for
      the linear encoders and/or ballscrews, I'd more likely retrofit a larger
      mill and keep my stepper-based Taig for what I'm using it for already.)

      Tom

      On Mon, 9 Dec 2002, steel2chips <h5npbmj@...> wrote:

      >
      > Obviously many people use the stepper version just fine and at $3500,
      > the servo units are expensive. In my case, I think it would have been
      > worth it because I keep running into stepper problems when working
      > with butterboard, where the feed rate is higher.
      >
      > steel2chips
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > To Post a message, send it to: taigtools@...
      >
      > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: taigtools-unsubscribe@...
      >
      >
      >
      > Let the chips fly!
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
    • steel2chips <h5npbmj@cox-internet.com>
      I agree with your analysis WRT to backlash, etc. The issue I ve to run into all to often is losing steps. I ve wasted material and time because of it.
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 10, 2002
        I agree with your analysis WRT to backlash, etc. The issue I've to
        run into all to often is losing steps. I've wasted material and
        time because of it. The servo seems very tempting. What would be
        your choice for a larger cnc-mill? Is there anything in the $3500
        price range?

        --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, Tom Benedict <benedict@h...> wrote:
        > I've got a question about that servo version, and the comment about
        > closed-loop always being more accurate than an open-loop stepper system:
        >
        > In looking at the pictures, it looks like the motors and encoders
        are one
        > self-contained unit. It also looks like the lead screws are lead
        screws
        > and not some zero-backlash screw like a ballscrew.
        >
        > So if there's still backlash inherent in the system, and you're only
        > getting feedback from the motor shaft, I don't see how it's any more
        > accurate or repeatable than a stepper system that's not losing steps.
        >
        > That last bit, and the ability to drive at higher feed rates, seem
        to be
        > the only advantages I can see from such a system.
        >
        > That being said... Has anyone tried to put linear encoders on a Taig
        > mill, or has anyone retrofitted one with ballscrews and servos?
        >
        > (Honestly I think what I'm asking is out of the range of what would
        even
        > make sense on a mill this size. If I was going to shell out the
        money for
        > the linear encoders and/or ballscrews, I'd more likely retrofit a
        larger
        > mill and keep my stepper-based Taig for what I'm using it for already.)
        >
        > Tom
        >
        > On Mon, 9 Dec 2002, steel2chips <h5npbmj@c...> wrote:
        >
        > >
        > > Obviously many people use the stepper version just fine and at $3500,
        > > the servo units are expensive. In my case, I think it would have been
        > > worth it because I keep running into stepper problems when working
        > > with butterboard, where the feed rate is higher.
        > >
        > > steel2chips
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > To Post a message, send it to: taigtools@e...
        > >
        > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: taigtools-unsubscribe@e...
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Let the chips fly!
        > >
        > >
        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        > >
        > >
      • Tom Benedict
        ... Off the shelf? Probably not. MicroKinetics is the only one that comes to mind who makes CNC mills larger than a breadbox but smaller than a Bridgeport.
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 11, 2002
          On Wed, 11 Dec 2002, steel2chips <h5npbmj@...> wrote:

          > I agree with your analysis WRT to backlash, etc. The issue I've to run
          > into all to often is losing steps. I've wasted material and time
          > because of it. The servo seems very tempting. What would be your
          > choice for a larger cnc-mill? Is there anything in the $3500 price
          > range?

          Off the shelf? Probably not. MicroKinetics is the only one that comes to
          mind who makes CNC mills larger than a breadbox but smaller than a
          Bridgeport. (Actually, someone ran a series of articles in either
          Machinist's Workshop or Home Shop Machinist for how to take a RongFu mill
          and convert it to CNC. I got the feeling it was someone who makes these
          commercially, which I thought was awfully nice of them.)

          For the price I think it'd be tough to beat. But do look around. I'm not
          doing anything on a production basis, so I'm fine living with the slower
          feed rates. If I ever started cranking out parts wholesale I'd probably
          be more interested in a ballscrew and servo system. For now it's not
          really a need for me, so I haven't pursued it.

          Tom

          > --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, Tom Benedict <benedict@h...> wrote:
          > > I've got a question about that servo version, and the comment about
          > > closed-loop always being more accurate than an open-loop stepper system:
          > >
          > > In looking at the pictures, it looks like the motors and encoders
          > are one
          > > self-contained unit. It also looks like the lead screws are lead
          > screws
          > > and not some zero-backlash screw like a ballscrew.
          > >
          > > So if there's still backlash inherent in the system, and you're only
          > > getting feedback from the motor shaft, I don't see how it's any more
          > > accurate or repeatable than a stepper system that's not losing steps.
          > >
          > > That last bit, and the ability to drive at higher feed rates, seem
          > to be
          > > the only advantages I can see from such a system.
          > >
          > > That being said... Has anyone tried to put linear encoders on a Taig
          > > mill, or has anyone retrofitted one with ballscrews and servos?
          > >
          > > (Honestly I think what I'm asking is out of the range of what would
          > even
          > > make sense on a mill this size. If I was going to shell out the
          > money for
          > > the linear encoders and/or ballscrews, I'd more likely retrofit a
          > larger
          > > mill and keep my stepper-based Taig for what I'm using it for already.)
          > >
          > > Tom
          > >
          > > On Mon, 9 Dec 2002, steel2chips <h5npbmj@c...> wrote:
          > >
          > > >
          > > > Obviously many people use the stepper version just fine and at $3500,
          > > > the servo units are expensive. In my case, I think it would have been
          > > > worth it because I keep running into stepper problems when working
          > > > with butterboard, where the feed rate is higher.
          > > >
          > > > steel2chips
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > To Post a message, send it to: taigtools@e...
          > > >
          > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: taigtools-unsubscribe@e...
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Let the chips fly!
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > > >
          > > >
          >
          >
          > To Post a message, send it to: taigtools@...
          >
          > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: taigtools-unsubscribe@...
          >
          >
          >
          > Let the chips fly!
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
        • Andrew Werby
          Message: 1 Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 09:08:30 -1000 (HST) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: Re: Taig or MaxNC ... Off the shelf? Probably
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 12, 2002
            Message: 1
            Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 09:08:30 -1000 (HST)
            From: Tom Benedict <benedict@...>
            Subject: Re: Re: Taig or MaxNC

            On Wed, 11 Dec 2002, steel2chips <h5npbmj@...> wrote:

            > I agree with your analysis WRT to backlash, etc. The issue I've to run
            > into all to often is losing steps. I've wasted material and time
            > because of it. The servo seems very tempting. What would be your
            > choice for a larger cnc-mill? Is there anything in the $3500 price
            > range?

            Off the shelf? Probably not. MicroKinetics is the only one that comes to
            mind who makes CNC mills larger than a breadbox but smaller than a
            Bridgeport. (Actually, someone ran a series of articles in either
            Machinist's Workshop or Home Shop Machinist for how to take a RongFu mill
            and convert it to CNC. I got the feeling it was someone who makes these
            commercially, which I thought was awfully nice of them.)

            [If you want a larger machine for that price, you either have to look at
            used mills, retrofit your own Asian mill-drill, or go to a router, which can
            handle aluminum, but not steel. There are other new CNC mills available in a
            slightly higher price-range- 5,000 to $15,000. See the CNC Jr. at
            www.cncmasters.com and Flashcut's machines at
            http://www.flashcutcnc.com/html/mach_9000.html There are also various other
            machines you can see compared at www.desktopcnc.com .]

            Andrew Werby
            www.computersculpture.com


            For the price I think it'd be tough to beat. But do look around. I'm not
            doing anything on a production basis, so I'm fine living with the slower
            feed rates. If I ever started cranking out parts wholesale I'd probably
            be more interested in a ballscrew and servo system. For now it's not
            really a need for me, so I haven't pursued it.

            Tom

            > --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, Tom Benedict <benedict@h...> wrote:
            > > I've got a question about that servo version, and the comment about
            > > closed-loop always being more accurate than an open-loop stepper system:
            > >
            > > In looking at the pictures, it looks like the motors and encoders
            > are one
            > > self-contained unit. It also looks like the lead screws are lead
            > screws
            > > and not some zero-backlash screw like a ballscrew.
            > >
            > > So if there's still backlash inherent in the system, and you're only
            > > getting feedback from the motor shaft, I don't see how it's any more
            > > accurate or repeatable than a stepper system that's not losing steps.
            > >
            > > That last bit, and the ability to drive at higher feed rates, seem
            > to be
            > > the only advantages I can see from such a system.
            > >
            > > That being said... Has anyone tried to put linear encoders on a Taig
            > > mill, or has anyone retrofitted one with ballscrews and servos?
            > >
            > > (Honestly I think what I'm asking is out of the range of what would
            > even
            > > make sense on a mill this size. If I was going to shell out the
            > money for
            > > the linear encoders and/or ballscrews, I'd more likely retrofit a
            > larger
            > > mill and keep my stepper-based Taig for what I'm using it for already.)
            > >
            > > Tom
            > >
            > > On Mon, 9 Dec 2002, steel2chips <h5npbmj@c...> wrote:
            > >
            > > >
            > > > Obviously many people use the stepper version just fine and at $3500,
            > > > the servo units are expensive. In my case, I think it would have been
            > > > worth it because I keep running into stepper problems when working
            > > > with butterboard, where the feed rate is higher.
            > > >
            > > >
          • JAMES BEGGEROW
            I thought I would throw my two cents worth in, I run production work on my Taig I use fixtures with as many as ten parts at a time with many holes per part.
            Message 5 of 9 , Dec 13, 2002
              I thought I would throw my two cents worth in, I run production work on my Taig I use fixtures with as many as ten parts at a time with many holes per part. my taig is 5 years old and the maintenence is adjust the gibs and split nuts the machine runs flawlessly . The back lash is not a problem. I write the program to compensate for the back lash. Taig is by far the best
              Jim
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Andrew Werby
              To: taigtools@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 10:18 PM
              Subject: [taigtools] Re: Taig or MaxNC


              Message: 1
              Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 09:08:30 -1000 (HST)
              From: Tom Benedict <benedict@...>
              Subject: Re: Re: Taig or MaxNC

              On Wed, 11 Dec 2002, steel2chips <h5npbmj@...> wrote:

              > I agree with your analysis WRT to backlash, etc. The issue I've to run
              > into all to often is losing steps. I've wasted material and time
              > because of it. The servo seems very tempting. What would be your
              > choice for a larger cnc-mill? Is there anything in the $3500 price
              > range?

              Off the shelf? Probably not. MicroKinetics is the only one that comes to
              mind who makes CNC mills larger than a breadbox but smaller than a
              Bridgeport. (Actually, someone ran a series of articles in either
              Machinist's Workshop or Home Shop Machinist for how to take a RongFu mill
              and convert it to CNC. I got the feeling it was someone who makes these
              commercially, which I thought was awfully nice of them.)

              [If you want a larger machine for that price, you either have to look at
              used mills, retrofit your own Asian mill-drill, or go to a router, which can
              handle aluminum, but not steel. There are other new CNC mills available in a
              slightly higher price-range- 5,000 to $15,000. See the CNC Jr. at
              www.cncmasters.com and Flashcut's machines at
              http://www.flashcutcnc.com/html/mach_9000.html There are also various other
              machines you can see compared at www.desktopcnc.com .]

              Andrew Werby
              www.computersculpture.com


              For the price I think it'd be tough to beat. But do look around. I'm not
              doing anything on a production basis, so I'm fine living with the slower
              feed rates. If I ever started cranking out parts wholesale I'd probably
              be more interested in a ballscrew and servo system. For now it's not
              really a need for me, so I haven't pursued it.

              Tom

              > --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, Tom Benedict <benedict@h...> wrote:
              > > I've got a question about that servo version, and the comment about
              > > closed-loop always being more accurate than an open-loop stepper system:
              > >
              > > In looking at the pictures, it looks like the motors and encoders
              > are one
              > > self-contained unit. It also looks like the lead screws are lead
              > screws
              > > and not some zero-backlash screw like a ballscrew.
              > >
              > > So if there's still backlash inherent in the system, and you're only
              > > getting feedback from the motor shaft, I don't see how it's any more
              > > accurate or repeatable than a stepper system that's not losing steps.
              > >
              > > That last bit, and the ability to drive at higher feed rates, seem
              > to be
              > > the only advantages I can see from such a system.
              > >
              > > That being said... Has anyone tried to put linear encoders on a Taig
              > > mill, or has anyone retrofitted one with ballscrews and servos?
              > >
              > > (Honestly I think what I'm asking is out of the range of what would
              > even
              > > make sense on a mill this size. If I was going to shell out the
              > money for
              > > the linear encoders and/or ballscrews, I'd more likely retrofit a
              > larger
              > > mill and keep my stepper-based Taig for what I'm using it for already.)
              > >
              > > Tom
              > >
              > > On Mon, 9 Dec 2002, steel2chips <h5npbmj@c...> wrote:
              > >
              > > >
              > > > Obviously many people use the stepper version just fine and at $3500,
              > > > the servo units are expensive. In my case, I think it would have been
              > > > worth it because I keep running into stepper problems when working
              > > > with butterboard, where the feed rate is higher.
              > > >
              > > >


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