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Re: Make a larger spindle for the Taig mill?

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  • rickyaahoo
    Mine is already heavily modified with a reinforced column and DC motor for slow speed and torque. A larger spindle is the next logical step. I have already
    Message 1 of 25 , Jul 5, 2013
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      Mine is already heavily modified with a reinforced column and DC motor for slow speed and torque. A larger spindle is the next logical step. I have already been turning inside and outside diameters under CNC control on 1" aluminum round. Just make light cuts and go slow.

      --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, Yi Yao <yi@...> wrote:
      >
      > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
      > Hash: SHA1
      >
      > Wow! Are you sure you want to do this? Thats a lot of stress on a mill
      > of this size.
      >
      > On 05/07/13 05:56 AM, rickyaahoo wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > Has anyone got plans for a larger spindle on their Taig mill? I
      > > want to make a new headstock with a 2" spindle shaft and bore it to
      > > 1.25" through hole with ER40 taper.
      > >
      > > Thank you for the responses on the steel-body chucks being 12L14
      > > steel. I will try this material.
      > >
      > >
      >
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      >
    • Don
      I modified the stock head stock to take an ER20 spindle. One of the first issues I ran into was loss of Z clearance. Your ER40 nose will hang blow the slide
      Message 2 of 25 , Jul 6, 2013
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        I modified the stock head stock to take an ER20 spindle. One of the first issues I ran into was loss of Z clearance. Your ER40 nose will hang blow the slide lower bearing by a minimum of 3" compared to 1" for the er16 and 2" for my er20 spindle. You can expect at least a 10 lb increase in movable Z weight. Probably more when you consider a 1/4 HP motor isn't going to be big enough to spin the bigger spindle and bearings.

        The reason I went to the ER-20 spindle was so I could mount 1/2" shank mills. All Woodruff key cutters come with 1/2" shanks. I fund that not only did I loose Z clearance from the ER nut to the table, but also 1/2" shank tools are longer than the tools you would fit into the ER16 head, so you loose another inch or two of workable Z window.

        I feel that my ER-20 spindle is about the max that is practical, As I have had to move every thing to the high end of the Z slide. The rigidity of the column becomes an issue.

        A Bridgeport would be a nice addition to my shop, IF I had the room for one. For now, I have to find other ways to do what is beyond the Taig's design limits.

        Don


        --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "rickyaahoo" <yaahoo@...> wrote:
        >
        > Mine is already heavily modified with a reinforced column and DC motor for slow speed and torque. A larger spindle is the next logical step. I have already been turning inside and outside diameters under CNC control on 1" aluminum round. Just make light cuts and go slow.
        >
        > --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, Yi Yao <yi@> wrote:
        > >
        > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
        > > Hash: SHA1
        > >
        > > Wow! Are you sure you want to do this? Thats a lot of stress on a mill
        > > of this size.
        > >
        > > On 05/07/13 05:56 AM, rickyaahoo wrote:
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Has anyone got plans for a larger spindle on their Taig mill? I
        > > > want to make a new headstock with a 2" spindle shaft and bore it to
        > > > 1.25" through hole with ER40 taper.
        > > >
        > > > Thank you for the responses on the steel-body chucks being 12L14
        > > > steel. I will try this material.
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
        > > Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
        > > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/
        > >
        > > iEYEARECAAYFAlHWw7cACgkQtPS2y41YHorgMACfaxtFjvZVYHif6SuRGgnRJ4+v
        > > IKoAniRNht/asqtBxI2MBfzvOYqu1MrH
        > > =O1C2
        > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
        > >
        >
      • Will Schmit
        About a year ago, we all were discussing a lathe spindle that accepted large stock. I think it was 1.5 .  It was used for pool ques. I was severely
        Message 3 of 25 , Jul 6, 2013
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          About a year ago, we all were discussing a lathe spindle that accepted large stock. I think it was 1.5".  It was used for pool ques.
          I was severely interested, because I use 1" stock quite often, and it is a pain to snip it into tiny pieces.



          ________________________________
          From: rickyaahoo <yaahoo@...>
          To: taigtools@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, July 5, 2013 6:56 AM
          Subject: [taigtools] Make a larger spindle for the Taig mill?



           
          Has anyone got plans for a larger spindle on their Taig mill? I want to make a new headstock with a 2" spindle shaft and bore it to 1.25" through hole with ER40 taper.

          Thank you for the responses on the steel-body chucks being 12L14 steel. I will try this material.




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Rupert
          Harvey Tools has small diameter shank key seat cutters so they are available. See
          Message 4 of 25 , Jul 7, 2013
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            Harvey Tools has small diameter shank key seat cutters so they are
            available. See
            <http://www.harveytool.com/prod/Browse-Specialty-Carbide-Cutting-Tools---End-Mills/Other-Specialty-Profiles/Keyseat-Cutters_165/Staggered-Tooth-Keyseat-Cutters_135.aspx_Q_keywords_E_43662>


            Rupert

            On 7/6/2013 4:48 PM, Don wrote:
            > shank mills. All Woodruff key cutters come with 1/2" shanks.

            --

            yvt

            Rupert Wenig
            Camrose, Alberta, Canada.

            email: rwenig2@...

            http://users.xplornet.com/~rwenig/Home/
          • Don
            I have to file this link away for future needs. Thanks. Don
            Message 5 of 25 , Jul 7, 2013
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              I have to file this link away for future needs. Thanks.

              Don

              --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, Rupert <rwenig2@...> wrote:
              >
              > Harvey Tools has small diameter shank key seat cutters so they are
              > available. See
              > <http://www.harveytool.com/prod/Browse-Specialty-Carbide-Cutting-Tools---End-Mills/Other-Specialty-Profiles/Keyseat-Cutters_165/Staggered-Tooth-Keyseat-Cutters_135.aspx_Q_keywords_E_43662>
              >
              >
              > Rupert
              >
              > On 7/6/2013 4:48 PM, Don wrote:
              > > shank mills. All Woodruff key cutters come with 1/2" shanks.
              >
              > --
              >
              > yvt
              >
              > Rupert Wenig
              > Camrose, Alberta, Canada.
              >
              > email: rwenig2@...
              >
              > http://users.xplornet.com/~rwenig/Home/
              >
            • Paul J. Ste. Marie
              ... I could have sworn I ve seen them with 3/8 shanks, not certain where. I believe A2Z sells a 1/2 end mill holder for the Taig that screws on in place of
              Message 6 of 25 , Jul 7, 2013
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                On 7/6/2013 3:48 PM, Don wrote:
                > All Woodruff key cutters come with 1/2" shanks.

                I could have sworn I've seen them with 3/8" shanks, not certain where.
                I believe A2Z sells a 1/2" end mill holder for the Taig that screws on
                in place of the ER16 lock nut, but there's have been negative reports
                here on how well those are made.
              • LJG
                I m curious. Have you sourced the bearings yet? For a project of my own I checked and the cheapest angular contact bearings I could find that size were well
                Message 7 of 25 , Jul 7, 2013
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                  I'm curious. Have you sourced the bearings yet? For a project of my own I checked and the cheapest angular contact bearings I could find that size were well over $250.00 each. I wouldn't think plain ball bearings would handle the axial forces for a mill.

                  Just a quick estimate, if the bearings cost that much, would make the housing, bearings, steel for the spindle and a pulley, something above $7-$800.

                  Larry

                  --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "rickyaahoo" <yaahoo@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Has anyone got plans for a larger spindle on their Taig mill? I want to make a new headstock with a 2" spindle shaft and bore it to 1.25" through hole with ER40 taper.
                  >
                  > Thank you for the responses on the steel-body chucks being 12L14 steel. I will try this material.
                  >
                • jnwoofer
                  Rick - Do you want to do the project or do you want the result to use on other projects? If you just want the result -- How about just mounting a Sherline
                  Message 8 of 25 , Jul 7, 2013
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                    Rick - Do you want to do the project or do you want the result to use on other projects? If you just want the result -- How about just mounting a Sherline ER40 head on your Taig frame? Or, contact the seller who is custom building these headstocks anyways and work with him to configure one for your Taig.

                    Jim

                    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sherline-Headstock-ER-40-Collet-Chuck-Spindle-System-for-Lathe-or-Mill-/231011966134?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35c962dcb6

                    --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "rickyaahoo" <yaahoo@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Has anyone got plans for a larger spindle on their Taig mill? I want to make a new headstock with a 2" spindle shaft and bore it to 1.25" through hole with ER40 taper.
                    >
                    > Thank you for the responses on the steel-body chucks being 12L14 steel. I will try this material.
                    >
                  • Don
                    I picked up a couple of them and they wobbled like a drunk sailor. In conversations with A2Z, I was informed that I had to fit to my spindle by grinding off
                    Message 9 of 25 , Jul 7, 2013
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                      I picked up a couple of them and they wobbled like a drunk sailor. In conversations with A2Z, I was informed that I had to "fit" to my spindle by grinding off high spots on spindle. I suggested that they make a blank adapter so we could bore it to size our self and not have to Fit it. I was informed that we couldn't possibility hold the tolerances that they held and would screw it up. At this point, I quit being a customer of A2Z.

                      It looks like they had a change of heat about the blank adapters though and now offer them.

                      One more thought on the adapter though, it adds one more piece to the drive chain and also adds length. As long as I had to put up with the extra length, I though I might as well have a larger collet system and eliminate the need for an adapter.

                      Don



                      --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "Paul J. Ste. Marie" <taig@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > On 7/6/2013 3:48 PM, Don wrote:
                      > > All Woodruff key cutters come with 1/2" shanks.
                      >
                      > I could have sworn I've seen them with 3/8" shanks, not certain where.
                      > I believe A2Z sells a 1/2" end mill holder for the Taig that screws on
                      > in place of the ER16 lock nut, but there's have been negative reports
                      > here on how well those are made.
                      >
                    • Paul J. Ste. Marie
                      ... Right after I posted that it occurred to me that you were the one who posted the negative reports:-) Your conversations with them sound about right. I
                      Message 10 of 25 , Jul 7, 2013
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                        On 7/7/2013 3:31 PM, Don wrote:
                        > I picked up a couple of them and they wobbled like a drunk sailor. In conversations

                        Right after I posted that it occurred to me that you were the one who
                        posted the negative reports:-)

                        Your conversations with them sound about right. I haven't had any
                        technical issues, but the one time I asked them about a shipping charge
                        they were pretty snotty about it.

                        After buying a number of items from them, my general impression is that
                        they charge top dollar for items that range from good to middling in
                        design quality. Thinking about it, I have a suspicion the problem with
                        the endmill holders is a design issue, not a manufacturing one--they
                        assume the end of the spindle is accurately ground flat and square, but
                        in normal usage, the end of the spindle doesn't actually touch anything.
                        The collet is held between the taper in the spindle and the taper in the
                        nut. Those two tapers and the threads are the critical surfaces, not the
                        end of the spindle.
                      • Richy McDonald
                        I have the large bore taig. It was made it USA but I ordered it through peatol in UK. It is a lot more expensive than regular headstock but as I make snooker
                        Message 11 of 25 , Jul 8, 2013
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                          I have the large bore taig. It was made it USA but I ordered it through
                          peatol in UK. It is a lot more expensive than regular headstock but as I
                          make snooker cues, it is exactly what I needed. It is a 1 1/2" bore.
                          I can't remember exact price but I'm sure for whole lathe with this
                          headstock it was around �500.
                          On Jul 5, 2013 1:56 PM, "rickyaahoo" <yaahoo@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Has anyone got plans for a larger spindle on their Taig mill? I want to
                          make a new headstock with a 2" spindle shaft and bore it to 1.25" through
                          hole with ER40 taper.
                          >
                          > Thank you for the responses on the steel-body chucks being 12L14 steel. I
                          will try this material.
                          >
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Amanda Walker
                          ... They do now sell blank adapters, which can be handy, and you can bore out the 3/8 one to 1/2 (they use the same OD for all of them). The length really
                          Message 12 of 25 , Jul 8, 2013
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                            On Jul 7, 2013, at 3:31 PM, "Don" Don@... wrote:
                            > I picked up a couple of them and they wobbled like a drunk sailor. In conversations with A2Z, I was informed that I had to "fit" to my spindle by grinding off high spots on spindle. I suggested that they make a blank adapter so we could bore it to size our self and not have to Fit it. I was informed that we couldn't possibility hold the tolerances that they held and would screw it up. At this point, I quit being a customer of A2Z.
                            >
                            > It looks like they had a change of heat about the blank adapters though and now offer them.

                            They do now sell blank adapters, which can be handy, and you can bore out the 3/8" one to 1/2" (they use the same OD for all of them). The length really limits what you can do with them, though.

                            --Amanda
                          • rickyaahoo
                            Jim, I would probably do the work myself. Especially boring out the through hole and turning the ER40 taper so it runs true with my mill.
                            Message 13 of 25 , Jul 8, 2013
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                              Jim, I would probably do the work myself. Especially boring out the through hole and turning the ER40 taper so it runs true with my mill.

                              --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "jnwoofer" <jnwoofer@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Rick - Do you want to do the project or do you want the result to use on other projects? If you just want the result -- How about just mounting a Sherline ER40 head on your Taig frame? Or, contact the seller who is custom building these headstocks anyways and work with him to configure one for your Taig.
                              >
                              > Jim
                              >
                              > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sherline-Headstock-ER-40-Collet-Chuck-Spindle-System-for-Lathe-or-Mill-/231011966134?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35c962dcb6
                              >
                              > --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "rickyaahoo" <yaahoo@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Has anyone got plans for a larger spindle on their Taig mill? I want to make a new headstock with a 2" spindle shaft and bore it to 1.25" through hole with ER40 taper.
                              > >
                              > > Thank you for the responses on the steel-body chucks being 12L14 steel. I will try this material.
                              > >
                              >
                            • LJG
                              Just for reference: The Sherline ER40 headstock is $440.00 plus $300.00 for angular contact bearings. And it s only bored for .79 Larry
                              Message 14 of 25 , Jul 8, 2013
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                                Just for reference:

                                The Sherline ER40 headstock is $440.00 plus $300.00 for angular contact bearings. And it's only bored for .79"

                                Larry
                              • Don
                                The ER taper really needs to be hardened and ground. With soft steel and turning groves, all accuracy will soon be lost do to wear. The Taig ER16 is harden
                                Message 15 of 25 , Jul 8, 2013
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                                  The ER taper really needs to be hardened and ground. With soft steel and turning groves, all accuracy will soon be lost do to wear. The Taig ER16 is harden and then finish ground on its own bearings, giving very accurate collet socket.

                                  For what it's worth, My ER-20 spindle is only capable of 8mmthrough the spindle, IF I were to remove the cap screw draw bar that positions the pre-tension on the top bearing. I checked CTC tools where I purchased my spindle and they have an ER-40 straight shank collet Chuck but it has the same 20mm x 100mm shaft my ER-20 spindle does and that has a 10mm threaded draw bar hole that limits the through the spindle to about 8mm.

                                  These chucks are really hard, so it is going to be all but impossible to bore them out. I'm trying to bore out the ER-40 - MT4 chuck on my 10" lathe to take 1/2" through the head. I got within about 3/8 inch of breaking through to the draw bar threads (5/8") and ran into a dead end. I just bought a 0.552" carbide drill and am going to try that to see if I can clear that last 3/8" or so.

                                  Last, if I were going to make a big spindle, I would use the tapered Timkin type roller bearings. They will take a much heaver load, but they do chew up some real estate. They are easier to adjust also with locking spanner nuts on the dead end of the spindle.

                                  Don







                                  --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "rickyaahoo" <yaahoo@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Jim, I would probably do the work myself. Especially boring out the through hole and turning the ER40 taper so it runs true with my mill.
                                  >
                                  > --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "jnwoofer" <jnwoofer@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Rick - Do you want to do the project or do you want the result to use on other projects? If you just want the result -- How about just mounting a Sherline ER40 head on your Taig frame? Or, contact the seller who is custom building these headstocks anyways and work with him to configure one for your Taig.
                                  > >
                                  > > Jim
                                  > >
                                  > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sherline-Headstock-ER-40-Collet-Chuck-Spindle-System-for-Lathe-or-Mill-/231011966134?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35c962dcb6
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "rickyaahoo" <yaahoo@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Has anyone got plans for a larger spindle on their Taig mill? I want to make a new headstock with a 2" spindle shaft and bore it to 1.25" through hole with ER40 taper.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Thank you for the responses on the steel-body chucks being 12L14 steel. I will try this material.
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • ED MAISEY
                                   Those members in this discussion,      I have a hard time understanding why you wouldn t purchase a larger machine to cope with the larger ER 40 collets,
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Jul 8, 2013
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                                     Those members in this discussion,

                                         I have a hard time understanding why you wouldn't purchase a larger machine to cope with the larger ER 40 collets, ER 40s are monsters the collets are almost as big as the Taig spindle housing itself , what size of cutters are you intending to use on this Taig machine, seems to me you are all trying to make a Rolls Royce from a Roller Skate, I would think your ER 20  development for 1/2 shanks would be fine as Max size, Whats wrong with making screw on adapters, you all seem to have these micron tolerances on your machines it should be no trouble making adapters with great accuracy, 

                                    One reason I ask all these questions is I have fitted my Taig mill with a Sherline dc motor and control mainly for boring holes and rectangular homemade boring head, I have run it on very low speed but if I increase the speed then the whole mill would lift off like a helicopter, I know I know its not round its rectangular so that's the problem, but I do have two other boring heads I can use, my point is you seem to be trying to pull a tractor with a honda civic,

                                    These are just my own thoughts, every machine has certain working limits, 


                                     
                                    ........Edmund.........


                                    ________________________________
                                    From: Don <Don@...>
                                    To: taigtools@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Monday, July 8, 2013 12:09 PM
                                    Subject: [taigtools] Re: Make a larger spindle for the Taig mill?



                                     
                                    The ER taper really needs to be hardened and ground. With soft steel and turning groves, all accuracy will soon be lost do to wear. The Taig ER16 is harden and then finish ground on its own bearings, giving very accurate collet socket.

                                    For what it's worth, My ER-20 spindle is only capable of 8mmthrough the spindle, IF I were to remove the cap screw draw bar that positions the pre-tension on the top bearing. I checked CTC tools where I purchased my spindle and they have an ER-40 straight shank collet Chuck but it has the same 20mm x 100mm shaft my ER-20 spindle does and that has a 10mm threaded draw bar hole that limits the through the spindle to about 8mm.

                                    These chucks are really hard, so it is going to be all but impossible to bore them out. I'm trying to bore out the ER-40 - MT4 chuck on my 10" lathe to take 1/2" through the head. I got within about 3/8 inch of breaking through to the draw bar threads (5/8") and ran into a dead end. I just bought a 0.552" carbide drill and am going to try that to see if I can clear that last 3/8" or so.

                                    Last, if I were going to make a big spindle, I would use the tapered Timkin type roller bearings. They will take a much heaver load, but they do chew up some real estate. They are easier to adjust also with locking spanner nuts on the dead end of the spindle.

                                    Don

                                    --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "rickyaahoo" <yaahoo@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Jim, I would probably do the work myself. Especially boring out the through hole and turning the ER40 taper so it runs true with my mill.
                                    >
                                    > --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "jnwoofer" <jnwoofer@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Rick - Do you want to do the project or do you want the result to use on other projects? If you just want the result -- How about just mounting a Sherline ER40 head on your Taig frame? Or, contact the seller who is custom building these headstocks anyways and work with him to configure one for your Taig.
                                    > >
                                    > > Jim
                                    > >
                                    > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sherline-Headstock-ER-40-Collet-Chuck-Spindle-System-for-Lathe-or-Mill-/231011966134?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35c962dcb6
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "rickyaahoo" <yaahoo@> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Has anyone got plans for a larger spindle on their Taig mill? I want to make a new headstock with a 2" spindle shaft and bore it to 1.25" through hole with ER40 taper.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Thank you for the responses on the steel-body chucks being 12L14 steel. I will try this material.
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    >




                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • rickyaahoo
                                    It s so I can use the CNC mill as a CNC lathe too. Plus I can do gang tooling which is like having a 10-way automatic CNC tool changer. Not much room in my
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Jul 10, 2013
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                                      It's so I can use the CNC mill as a CNC lathe too. Plus I can do gang tooling which is like having a 10-way automatic CNC tool changer. Not much room in my 700 sq ft apt for different machines. Large diameter aluminum pieces can be easily turned if you make light cuts.

                                      --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, ED MAISEY <holmes_ca_2000@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >  Those members in this discussion,
                                      >
                                      >      I have a hard time understanding why you wouldn't purchase a larger machine to cope with the larger ER 40 collets, ER 40s are monsters the collets are almost as big as the Taig spindle housing itself , what size of cutters are you intending to use on this Taig machine, seems to me you are all trying to make a Rolls Royce from a Roller Skate, I would think your ER 20  development for 1/2 shanks would be fine as Max size, Whats wrong with making screw on adapters, you all seem to have these micron tolerances on your machines it should be no trouble making adapters with great accuracy, 
                                      >
                                      > One reason I ask all these questions is I have fitted my Taig mill with a Sherline dc motor and control mainly for boring holes and rectangular homemade boring head, I have run it on very low speed but if I increase the speed then the whole mill would lift off like a helicopter, I know I know its not round its rectangular so that's the problem, but I do have two other boring heads I can use, my point is you seem to be trying to pull a tractor with a honda civic,
                                      >
                                      > These are just my own thoughts, every machine has certain working limits, 
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >  
                                      > ........Edmund.........
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ________________________________
                                      > From: Don <Don@...>
                                      > To: taigtools@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Sent: Monday, July 8, 2013 12:09 PM
                                      > Subject: [taigtools] Re: Make a larger spindle for the Taig mill?
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >  
                                      > The ER taper really needs to be hardened and ground. With soft steel and turning groves, all accuracy will soon be lost do to wear. The Taig ER16 is harden and then finish ground on its own bearings, giving very accurate collet socket.
                                      >
                                      > For what it's worth, My ER-20 spindle is only capable of 8mmthrough the spindle, IF I were to remove the cap screw draw bar that positions the pre-tension on the top bearing. I checked CTC tools where I purchased my spindle and they have an ER-40 straight shank collet Chuck but it has the same 20mm x 100mm shaft my ER-20 spindle does and that has a 10mm threaded draw bar hole that limits the through the spindle to about 8mm.
                                      >
                                      > These chucks are really hard, so it is going to be all but impossible to bore them out. I'm trying to bore out the ER-40 - MT4 chuck on my 10" lathe to take 1/2" through the head. I got within about 3/8 inch of breaking through to the draw bar threads (5/8") and ran into a dead end. I just bought a 0.552" carbide drill and am going to try that to see if I can clear that last 3/8" or so.
                                      >
                                      > Last, if I were going to make a big spindle, I would use the tapered Timkin type roller bearings. They will take a much heaver load, but they do chew up some real estate. They are easier to adjust also with locking spanner nuts on the dead end of the spindle.
                                      >
                                      > Don
                                      >
                                      > --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "rickyaahoo" <yaahoo@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Jim, I would probably do the work myself. Especially boring out the through hole and turning the ER40 taper so it runs true with my mill.
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "jnwoofer" <jnwoofer@> wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Rick - Do you want to do the project or do you want the result to use on other projects? If you just want the result -- How about just mounting a Sherline ER40 head on your Taig frame? Or, contact the seller who is custom building these headstocks anyways and work with him to configure one for your Taig.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Jim
                                      > > >
                                      > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sherline-Headstock-ER-40-Collet-Chuck-Spindle-System-for-Lathe-or-Mill-/231011966134?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35c962dcb6
                                      > > >
                                      > > > --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "rickyaahoo" <yaahoo@> wrote:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Has anyone got plans for a larger spindle on their Taig mill? I want to make a new headstock with a 2" spindle shaft and bore it to 1.25" through hole with ER40 taper.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Thank you for the responses on the steel-body chucks being 12L14 steel. I will try this material.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                    • ED MAISEY
                                      All I can add is god luck,    ________________________________ From: rickyaahoo To: taigtools@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 10,
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Jul 10, 2013
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        All I can add is god luck, 
                                         


                                        ________________________________
                                        From: rickyaahoo <yaahoo@...>
                                        To: taigtools@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 6:09 AM
                                        Subject: [taigtools] Re: Make a larger spindle for the Taig mill?



                                         
                                        It's so I can use the CNC mill as a CNC lathe too. Plus I can do gang tooling which is like having a 10-way automatic CNC tool changer. Not much room in my 700 sq ft apt for different machines. Large diameter aluminum pieces can be easily turned if you make light cuts.

                                        --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, ED MAISEY <holmes_ca_2000@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        >  Those members in this discussion,
                                        >
                                        >      I have a hard time understanding why you wouldn't purchase a larger machine to cope with the larger ER 40 collets, ER 40s are monsters the collets are almost as big as the Taig spindle housing itself , what size of cutters are you intending to use on this Taig machine, seems to me you are all trying to make a Rolls Royce from a Roller Skate, I would think your ER 20  development for 1/2 shanks would be fine as Max size, Whats wrong with making screw on adapters, you all seem to have these micron tolerances on your machines it should be no trouble making adapters with great accuracy, 
                                        >
                                        > One reason I ask all these questions is I have fitted my Taig mill with a Sherline dc motor and control mainly for boring holes and rectangular homemade boring head, I have run it on very low speed but if I increase the speed then the whole mill would lift off like a helicopter, I know I know its not round its rectangular so that's the problem, but I do have two other boring heads I can use, my point is you seem to be trying to pull a tractor with a honda civic,
                                        >
                                        > These are just my own thoughts, every machine has certain working limits, 
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >  
                                        > ........Edmund.........
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ________________________________
                                        > From: Don <Don@...>
                                        > To: taigtools@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Sent: Monday, July 8, 2013 12:09 PM
                                        > Subject: [taigtools] Re: Make a larger spindle for the Taig mill?
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >  
                                        > The ER taper really needs to be hardened and ground. With soft steel and turning groves, all accuracy will soon be lost do to wear. The Taig ER16 is harden and then finish ground on its own bearings, giving very accurate collet socket.
                                        >
                                        > For what it's worth, My ER-20 spindle is only capable of 8mmthrough the spindle, IF I were to remove the cap screw draw bar that positions the pre-tension on the top bearing. I checked CTC tools where I purchased my spindle and they have an ER-40 straight shank collet Chuck but it has the same 20mm x 100mm shaft my ER-20 spindle does and that has a 10mm threaded draw bar hole that limits the through the spindle to about 8mm.
                                        >
                                        > These chucks are really hard, so it is going to be all but impossible to bore them out. I'm trying to bore out the ER-40 - MT4 chuck on my 10" lathe to take 1/2" through the head. I got within about 3/8 inch of breaking through to the draw bar threads (5/8") and ran into a dead end. I just bought a 0.552" carbide drill and am going to try that to see if I can clear that last 3/8" or so.
                                        >
                                        > Last, if I were going to make a big spindle, I would use the tapered Timkin type roller bearings. They will take a much heaver load, but they do chew up some real estate. They are easier to adjust also with locking spanner nuts on the dead end of the spindle.
                                        >
                                        > Don
                                        >
                                        > --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "rickyaahoo" <yaahoo@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > Jim, I would probably do the work myself. Especially boring out the through hole and turning the ER40 taper so it runs true with my mill.
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "jnwoofer" <jnwoofer@> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Rick - Do you want to do the project or do you want the result to use on other projects? If you just want the result -- How about just mounting a Sherline ER40 head on your Taig frame? Or, contact the seller who is custom building these headstocks anyways and work with him to configure one for your Taig.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Jim
                                        > > >
                                        > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sherline-Headstock-ER-40-Collet-Chuck-Spindle-System-for-Lathe-or-Mill-/231011966134?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35c962dcb6
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "rickyaahoo" <yaahoo@> wrote:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Has anyone got plans for a larger spindle on their Taig mill? I want to make a new headstock with a 2" spindle shaft and bore it to 1.25" through hole with ER40 taper.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Thank you for the responses on the steel-body chucks being 12L14 steel. I will try this material.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >




                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • LJG
                                        I m pretty iconoclastic. I tend to suggest and try things that are not usually done or some don t think will work simply because it s not done that way But
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Jul 10, 2013
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                                          I'm pretty iconoclastic. I tend to suggest and try things that are not usually done or some don't think will work simply because "it's not done that way"

                                          But I in this case I think I'll add my vote to Ed's.

                                          Good luck. You might check out the price of 2" ID bearings first and some sort of casting or extrusion for the head stock.

                                          ljg

                                          --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, ED MAISEY <holmes_ca_2000@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > All I can add is god luck, 
                                          >  
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > ________________________________
                                          > From: rickyaahoo <yaahoo@...>
                                          > To: taigtools@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 6:09 AM
                                          > Subject: [taigtools] Re: Make a larger spindle for the Taig mill?
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >  
                                          > It's so I can use the CNC mill as a CNC lathe too. Plus I can do gang tooling which is like having a 10-way automatic CNC tool changer. Not much room in my 700 sq ft apt for different machines. Large diameter aluminum pieces can be easily turned if you make light cuts.
                                          >
                                          > --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, ED MAISEY <holmes_ca_2000@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > >  Those members in this discussion,
                                          > >
                                          > >      I have a hard time understanding why you wouldn't purchase a larger machine to cope with the larger ER 40 collets, ER 40s are monsters the collets are almost as big as the Taig spindle housing itself , what size of cutters are you intending to use on this Taig machine, seems to me you are all trying to make a Rolls Royce from a Roller Skate, I would think your ER 20  development for 1/2 shanks would be fine as Max size, Whats wrong with making screw on adapters, you all seem to have these micron tolerances on your machines it should be no trouble making adapters with great accuracy, 
                                          > >
                                          > > One reason I ask all these questions is I have fitted my Taig mill with a Sherline dc motor and control mainly for boring holes and rectangular homemade boring head, I have run it on very low speed but if I increase the speed then the whole mill would lift off like a helicopter, I know I know its not round its rectangular so that's the problem, but I do have two other boring heads I can use, my point is you seem to be trying to pull a tractor with a honda civic,
                                          > >
                                          > > These are just my own thoughts, every machine has certain working limits, 
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >  
                                          > > ........Edmund.........
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > ________________________________
                                          > > From: Don <Don@>
                                          > > To: taigtools@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > Sent: Monday, July 8, 2013 12:09 PM
                                          > > Subject: [taigtools] Re: Make a larger spindle for the Taig mill?
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >  
                                          > > The ER taper really needs to be hardened and ground. With soft steel and turning groves, all accuracy will soon be lost do to wear. The Taig ER16 is harden and then finish ground on its own bearings, giving very accurate collet socket.
                                          > >
                                          > > For what it's worth, My ER-20 spindle is only capable of 8mmthrough the spindle, IF I were to remove the cap screw draw bar that positions the pre-tension on the top bearing. I checked CTC tools where I purchased my spindle and they have an ER-40 straight shank collet Chuck but it has the same 20mm x 100mm shaft my ER-20 spindle does and that has a 10mm threaded draw bar hole that limits the through the spindle to about 8mm.
                                          > >
                                          > > These chucks are really hard, so it is going to be all but impossible to bore them out. I'm trying to bore out the ER-40 - MT4 chuck on my 10" lathe to take 1/2" through the head. I got within about 3/8 inch of breaking through to the draw bar threads (5/8") and ran into a dead end. I just bought a 0.552" carbide drill and am going to try that to see if I can clear that last 3/8" or so.
                                          > >
                                          > > Last, if I were going to make a big spindle, I would use the tapered Timkin type roller bearings. They will take a much heaver load, but they do chew up some real estate. They are easier to adjust also with locking spanner nuts on the dead end of the spindle.
                                          > >
                                          > > Don
                                          > >
                                          > > --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "rickyaahoo" <yaahoo@> wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Jim, I would probably do the work myself. Especially boring out the through hole and turning the ER40 taper so it runs true with my mill.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "jnwoofer" <jnwoofer@> wrote:
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Rick - Do you want to do the project or do you want the result to use on other projects? If you just want the result -- How about just mounting a Sherline ER40 head on your Taig frame? Or, contact the seller who is custom building these headstocks anyways and work with him to configure one for your Taig.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Jim
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sherline-Headstock-ER-40-Collet-Chuck-Spindle-System-for-Lathe-or-Mill-/231011966134?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35c962dcb6
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "rickyaahoo" <yaahoo@> wrote:
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Has anyone got plans for a larger spindle on their Taig mill? I want to make a new headstock with a 2" spindle shaft and bore it to 1.25" through hole with ER40 taper.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Thank you for the responses on the steel-body chucks being 12L14 steel. I will try this material.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >
                                        • LJG
                                          However; if you re going to try vxb.com has tapered bearings: LM104949/LM104911 Taper Bearing 2 x3.25 x0.85 Code: Kit7221 Price: $12.95 + $15.00 UPS shipping.
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Jul 10, 2013
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            However; if you're going to try vxb.com has tapered bearings:
                                            LM104949/LM104911 Taper Bearing 2"x3.25"x0.85"
                                            Code: Kit7221
                                            Price: $12.95 + $15.00 UPS shipping.

                                            And onlinemetals.com has 5" square aluminum bar for $118.00 a foot. Weight 30 lb. Say $150.00 shipped.

                                            You'll have to mill the outside for mounting rails, say 1/2" per side. So you'll have a minimum of 3/8 of metal left after you bore a 3.25: bore.

                                            ER40 collet set say $40.00

                                            Now as expensive as I thought. $230.00 for parts.

                                            I believe I'd just order this: $407 shipped. It might work.
                                            That Sherline lathe is about the same size.


                                            http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sherline-Headstock-ER-40-Collet-Chuck-Spindle-System-for-Lathe-or-Mill-/231011966134?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35c962dcb6
                                          • LJG
                                            However; if you re going to try vxb.com has tapered bearings: LM104949/LM104911 Taper Bearing 2 x3.25 x0.85 Code: Kit7221 Price: $12.95 + $15.00 UPS shipping.
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Jul 10, 2013
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              However; if you're going to try vxb.com has tapered bearings:
                                              LM104949/LM104911 Taper Bearing 2"x3.25"x0.85"
                                              Code: Kit7221
                                              Price: $12.95 + $15.00 UPS shipping.

                                              And onlinemetals.com has 5" square aluminum bar for $118.00 a foot. Weight 30 lb. Say $150.00 shipped.

                                              You'll have to mill the outside for mounting rails, say 1/2" per side. So you'll have a minimum of 3/8 of metal left after you bore a 3.25: bore.

                                              ER40 collet set say $40.00

                                              Now as expensive as I thought. $230.00 for parts.

                                              I believe I'd just order this: $407 shipped.
                                              That Sherline lathe is about the same size.
                                              Whoops no it won't. Only a .630 through bore. I thought it looked pretty compact.

                                              http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sherline-Headstock-ER-40-Collet-Chuck-Spindle-System-for-Lathe-or-Mill-/231011966134?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&
                                              hash=item35c962dcb6

                                              But consider this. The headstock is going to be about 4" by 4" by 4" and when you put a workpiece through it the weight is going to be about 20lb. And for all that the maximum ER40 collet is 1" isn't it?
                                            • jnwoofer
                                              Rick, Why not just put a 4th axis (rotary) on your CNC mill? You can make riser blocks to raise it up to handle table clearance for large diameter pieces
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Jul 10, 2013
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                                                Rick,

                                                Why not just put a 4th axis (rotary) on your CNC mill? You can make riser blocks to raise it up to handle table clearance for large diameter pieces mounted in a chuck on the table -- you have options to swap the chuck out with a table -- seems like there are lots more options doing that instead of overbuilding the main mill spindle....

                                                Jim

                                                --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "rickyaahoo" <yaahoo@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > It's so I can use the CNC mill as a CNC lathe too. Plus I can do gang tooling which is like having a 10-way automatic CNC tool changer. Not much room in my 700 sq ft apt for different machines. Large diameter aluminum pieces can be easily turned if you make light cuts.
                                                >
                                              • rickyaahoo
                                                I m able to turn pieces nicely with my gang tooling setup, except the through hole is limited to 3/8 diameter stock. And I think the Taig spindle is more
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Jul 11, 2013
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  I'm able to turn pieces nicely with my gang tooling setup, except the through hole is limited to 3/8" diameter stock. And I think the Taig spindle is more accurate than my rotary table for turning pieces.

                                                  --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "jnwoofer" <jnwoofer@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > Rick,
                                                  >
                                                  > Why not just put a 4th axis (rotary) on your CNC mill? You can make riser blocks to raise it up to handle table clearance for large diameter pieces mounted in a chuck on the table -- you have options to swap the chuck out with a table -- seems like there are lots more options doing that instead of overbuilding the main mill spindle....
                                                  >
                                                  > Jim
                                                  >
                                                  > --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "rickyaahoo" <yaahoo@> wrote:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > It's so I can use the CNC mill as a CNC lathe too. Plus I can do gang tooling which is like having a 10-way automatic CNC tool changer. Not much room in my 700 sq ft apt for different machines. Large diameter aluminum pieces can be easily turned if you make light cuts.
                                                  > >
                                                  >
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