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Re: [taigtools] Lathe Cross slide backlash

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  • Gaston Gagnon
    Thanks Tony. Gaston -- /http://public.fotki.com/Gaston-Gagnon// ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    Message 1 of 30 , Mar 31, 2013
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      Thanks Tony.

      Gaston
      --
      /http://public.fotki.com/Gaston-Gagnon//

      On 31/03/2013 12:58 PM, Tony Jeffree wrote:
      >
      > Backlash is only an issue when you are changing the direction in which the
      > backlash is taken up. On a lathe cross-slide, this doesn't happen under
      > normal conditions, so it isn't an issue. It doesn't have any effect on the
      > quality of cutting as you are always cutting when the backlash has been
      > taken up. Ba klash in the leadscrew is more of a problem - fr example if
      > you were cutting a chess piece or similar shape - because going from
      > cutting up to a peak to cutting dowwn to a valley there is a reversal in
      > the direction in which the leadscrew backlash is taken up. However, for
      > "normal" turning - tapers, plain turning to a shoulder, tgreading, etc.,
      > backlash in either feed screw isn't a big deal, any more than it is for
      > manual turning.
      >
      > Regards,
      > Tony
      >



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein
      ... About a thou or three with the new ball bearing leadscrew. On 3/31/2013 10:04 AM, Yi Yao wrote: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- ... Yes, it will always
      Message 2 of 30 , Mar 31, 2013
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        On 3/31/2013 11:46 AM, Gaston Gagnon wrote:
        > What is the best backlash you can get with this method?
        About a thou or three with the new ball bearing leadscrew.

        On 3/31/2013 10:04 AM, Yi Yao wrote:> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
        > How well does it hold up after this procedure? Does it tend to deform
        > back?
        Yes, it will always wear back over time. The tighter you adjust it the
        quicker it will wear. But it will hold up for a while.

        What Tony said generally about backlash not mattering as much is true
        though.

        --
        felice@... is Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein.
        Learn more about us at http://www.nickandfelice.com
      • Gaston Gagnon
        ... I get you are still speaking of the Taig lathe? Where can I learn more about the new ball bearing leadscrew? -- /http://public.fotki.com/Gaston-Gagnon//
        Message 3 of 30 , Mar 31, 2013
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          On 31/03/2013 6:58 PM, Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein wrote:
          >
          >
          > On 3/31/2013 11:46 AM, Gaston Gagnon wrote:
          > > What is the best backlash you can get with this method?
          > About a thou or three with the new ball bearing leadscrew.
          >
          I get you are still speaking of the Taig lathe? Where can I learn more
          about the new ball bearing leadscrew?

          --
          /http://public.fotki.com/Gaston-Gagnon//


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Charles Geis
          You also mentioned this if for a CNC mill. Most CNC software have a procedures for backlash allowances. I run Mach3 and under settings/backlash. There is a
          Message 4 of 30 , Apr 1 4:52 AM
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            You also mentioned this if for a CNC mill. Most CNC software have
            a procedures for backlash allowances. I run Mach3 and under
            settings/backlash. There is a spot to enter backlash calculations for each
            axis. When the Mill changes directions it automatically takes the extra
            steps. A good example, XYand Z when cutting a circle, without the
            backlashallowances, the circle becomes more elliptical.

            CGeis


            On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 9:12 PM, Gaston Gagnon
            <gaston.gagnon@...>wrote:

            > **
            >
            >
            > On 31/03/2013 6:58 PM, Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > On 3/31/2013 11:46 AM, Gaston Gagnon wrote:
            > > > What is the best backlash you can get with this method?
            > > About a thou or three with the new ball bearing leadscrew.
            > >
            > I get you are still speaking of the Taig lathe? Where can I learn more
            > about the new ball bearing leadscrew?
            >
            > --
            > /http://public.fotki.com/Gaston-Gagnon//
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Gaston Gagnon
            Hi Charles, the backlash compensation technique that you describe with Mach3 Mill is also available and working well with Mach3 Lathe. My concern was to
            Message 5 of 30 , Apr 1 9:00 AM
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              Hi Charles,
              the backlash compensation technique that you describe with Mach3 Mill is
              also available and working well with Mach3 Lathe. My concern was to
              minimize or get rid of the backlash physically.
              I have not tried it yet but the suggestion made was to tighten the Cross
              slide Screw Slitted Nut.
              Thanks for your comment.
              Gaston

              --
              /http://public.fotki.com/Gaston-Gagnon//


              On 01/04/2013 7:52 AM, Charles Geis wrote:
              > You also mentioned this if for a CNC mill. Most CNC software have
              > a procedures for backlash allowances. I run Mach3 and under
              > settings/backlash. There is a spot to enter backlash calculations for each
              > axis. When the Mill changes directions it automatically takes the extra
              > steps. A good example, XYand Z when cutting a circle, without the
              > backlashallowances, the circle becomes more elliptical.
              >
              > CGeis
              >
              >
              > On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 9:12 PM, Gaston Gagnon
              > <gaston.gagnon@...>wrote:
              >
              >> **
              >>
              >>
              >> On 31/03/2013 6:58 PM, Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein wrote:
              >>>
              >>> On 3/31/2013 11:46 AM, Gaston Gagnon wrote:
              >>>> What is the best backlash you can get with this method?
              >>> About a thou or three with the new ball bearing leadscrew.
              >>>
              >> I get you are still speaking of the Taig lathe? Where can I learn more
              >> about the new ball bearing leadscrew?
              >>
              >>



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Paul J. Ste. Marie
              ... Are you talking about the carriage or the cross slide? Either way, on a lathe, I would expect the cutting force to always take up the backlash in the same
              Message 6 of 30 , Apr 1 9:11 AM
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                On 3/31/2013 9:58 AM, Tony Jeffree wrote:
                > because going from
                > cutting up to a peak to cutting dowwn to a valley there is a reversal in
                > the direction in which the leadscrew backlash is taken up.

                Are you talking about the carriage or the cross slide?

                Either way, on a lathe, I would expect the cutting force to always take
                up the backlash in the same direction. The exception would be in the
                carriage if you went from a right-hand cut to left-hand cut, but that
                would require a tool change and thus again backlash is a non-issue.

                Am I missing something here? Even with something like a recessed face on
                a flywheel, you still need to change the tool setup between the inside
                of the outer circumference and the outside of the hub.
              • Ron Thompson
                CNC is capable of contour cuts, like in a chess pawn. So, yes, backlash can be a problem. ... -- Ron Thompson On the Beautiful Florida Space Coast, right
                Message 7 of 30 , Apr 1 10:03 AM
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                  CNC is capable of contour cuts, like in a chess pawn. So, yes, backlash
                  can be a problem.

                  On 4/1/2013 12:11 PM, Paul J. Ste. Marie wrote:
                  >
                  > On 3/31/2013 9:58 AM, Tony Jeffree wrote:
                  > > because going from
                  > > cutting up to a peak to cutting dowwn to a valley there is a reversal in
                  > > the direction in which the leadscrew backlash is taken up.
                  >
                  > Are you talking about the carriage or the cross slide?
                  >
                  > Either way, on a lathe, I would expect the cutting force to always take
                  > up the backlash in the same direction. The exception would be in the
                  > carriage if you went from a right-hand cut to left-hand cut, but that
                  > would require a tool change and thus again backlash is a non-issue.
                  >
                  > Am I missing something here? Even with something like a recessed face on
                  > a flywheel, you still need to change the tool setup between the inside
                  > of the outer circumference and the outside of the hub.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > No virus found in this message.
                  > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
                  > Version: 2012.0.2240 / Virus Database: 2641/5718 - Release Date: 04/01/13
                  >


                  --


                  Ron Thompson
                  On the Beautiful Florida Space Coast, right beside the Kennedy Space Center, USA

                  Think, Draw, Print. 3D printers ROCK!

                  http://www.plansandprojects.com/My%20Machines/PrusaMendel2012-1/

                  http://www.plansandprojects.com My hobby pages are here:
                  http://www.plansandprojects.com/My%20Machines/

                  Visit the castinghobby FAQ:
                  http://castinghobbyfaq.bareboogerhost.com/








                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Tony Jeffree
                  ...but only a problem on the leadscrew, not the cross-slide. Regards, Tony ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  Message 8 of 30 , Apr 1 11:19 AM
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                    ...but only a problem on the leadscrew, not the cross-slide.

                    Regards,
                    Tony
                    On 1 Apr 2013 18:03, "Ron Thompson" <ron@...> wrote:

                    > CNC is capable of contour cuts, like in a chess pawn. So, yes, backlash
                    > can be a problem.
                    >
                    > On 4/1/2013 12:11 PM, Paul J. Ste. Marie wrote:
                    > >
                    > > On 3/31/2013 9:58 AM, Tony Jeffree wrote:
                    > > > because going from
                    > > > cutting up to a peak to cutting dowwn to a valley there is a reversal
                    > in
                    > > > the direction in which the leadscrew backlash is taken up.
                    > >
                    > > Are you talking about the carriage or the cross slide?
                    > >
                    > > Either way, on a lathe, I would expect the cutting force to always take
                    > > up the backlash in the same direction. The exception would be in the
                    > > carriage if you went from a right-hand cut to left-hand cut, but that
                    > > would require a tool change and thus again backlash is a non-issue.
                    > >
                    > > Am I missing something here? Even with something like a recessed face on
                    > > a flywheel, you still need to change the tool setup between the inside
                    > > of the outer circumference and the outside of the hub.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > No virus found in this message.
                    > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
                    > > Version: 2012.0.2240 / Virus Database: 2641/5718 - Release Date: 04/01/13
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    >
                    >
                    > Ron Thompson
                    > On the Beautiful Florida Space Coast, right beside the Kennedy Space
                    > Center, USA
                    >
                    > Think, Draw, Print. 3D printers ROCK!
                    >
                    > http://www.plansandprojects.com/My%20Machines/PrusaMendel2012-1/
                    >
                    > http://www.plansandprojects.com My hobby pages are here:
                    > http://www.plansandprojects.com/My%20Machines/
                    >
                    > Visit the castinghobby FAQ:
                    > http://castinghobbyfaq.bareboogerhost.com/
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > To Post a message, send it to:
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                    >
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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • chuck
                    Tony, I would think it would be more of an issue on the cross slide (X axis) and not the lead screw (Z axis). when I have watched turning a profile on a piece
                    Message 9 of 30 , Apr 1 12:37 PM
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                      Tony,
                      I would think it would be more of an issue on the cross slide (X axis) and not the lead screw (Z axis).
                      when I have watched turning a profile on a piece of stock the Z axis is moving toward the chuck in one continuous motion while the X axis is moving in and out reversing direction along the profile than backing away and the Z moves back to the start to take another cut.
                      this would make backlash more critical on the cross slide (X axis) I would think. am I not correct?
                      I have not done any cnc on a lathe yet but have watched others, it just seems right.
                      feel free to correct me if I'm way off base.
                      Chuck

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Tony Jeffree
                      To: taigtools
                      Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 2:19 PM
                      Subject: Re: [taigtools] Lathe Cross slide backlash



                      ...but only a problem on the leadscrew, not the cross-slide.

                      Regards,
                      Tony
                      On 1 Apr 2013 18:03, "Ron Thompson" <ron@...> wrote:

                      > CNC is capable of contour cuts, like in a chess pawn. So, yes, backlash
                      > can be a problem.
                      >
                      > On 4/1/2013 12:11 PM, Paul J. Ste. Marie wrote:
                      > >
                      > > On 3/31/2013 9:58 AM, Tony Jeffree wrote:
                      > > > because going from
                      > > > cutting up to a peak to cutting dowwn to a valley there is a reversal
                      > in
                      > > > the direction in which the leadscrew backlash is taken up.
                      > >
                      > > Are you talking about the carriage or the cross slide?
                      > >
                      > > Either way, on a lathe, I would expect the cutting force to always take
                      > > up the backlash in the same direction. The exception would be in the
                      > > carriage if you went from a right-hand cut to left-hand cut, but that
                      > > would require a tool change and thus again backlash is a non-issue.
                      > >
                      > > Am I missing something here? Even with something like a recessed face on
                      > > a flywheel, you still need to change the tool setup between the inside
                      > > of the outer circumference and the outside of the hub.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > No virus found in this message.
                      > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
                      > > Version: 2012.0.2240 / Virus Database: 2641/5718 - Release Date: 04/01/13
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      > --
                      >
                      >
                      > Ron Thompson
                      > On the Beautiful Florida Space Coast, right beside the Kennedy Space
                      > Center, USA
                      >
                      > Think, Draw, Print. 3D printers ROCK!
                      >
                      > http://www.plansandprojects.com/My%20Machines/PrusaMendel2012-1/
                      >
                      > http://www.plansandprojects.com My hobby pages are here:
                      > http://www.plansandprojects.com/My%20Machines/
                      >
                      > Visit the castinghobby FAQ:
                      > http://castinghobbyfaq.bareboogerhost.com/
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > To Post a message, send it to:
                      > taigtools@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                      > taigtools-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      > Let the chips fly!
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
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                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Tony Jeffree
                      Chuck Don t confuse the direction of movement with the direction of the cutting forces acting on the tool. When the tool is cutting metal there is always a
                      Message 10 of 30 , Apr 1 1:17 PM
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                        Chuck

                        Don't confuse the direction of movement with the direction of the cutting
                        forces acting on the tool.

                        When the tool is cutting metal there is always a component of the cutting
                        force that acts in the direcion of the operator, which takes up the
                        backlash in the cross-slide feed screw. The rest of the cutting force acts
                        in the axis of tge leadscrew, either to the right if cutting on the left
                        flank of the tool, or to the left if cutting on the right flank. So cross
                        slide backlash is always taken up in one direction whereas the direction
                        that leadscrew backlash is taken up depends on which flank of the tool is
                        doing the cutting.

                        Regards,
                        Tony
                        On 1 Apr 2013 20:37, "chuck" <chuckels@...> wrote:

                        > Tony,
                        > I would think it would be more of an issue on the cross slide (X axis) and
                        > not the lead screw (Z axis).
                        > when I have watched turning a profile on a piece of stock the Z axis is
                        > moving toward the chuck in one continuous motion while the X axis is moving
                        > in and out reversing direction along the profile than backing away and the
                        > Z moves back to the start to take another cut.
                        > this would make backlash more critical on the cross slide (X axis) I would
                        > think. am I not correct?
                        > I have not done any cnc on a lathe yet but have watched others, it just
                        > seems right.
                        > feel free to correct me if I'm way off base.
                        > Chuck
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: Tony Jeffree
                        > To: taigtools
                        > Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 2:19 PM
                        > Subject: Re: [taigtools] Lathe Cross slide backlash
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ...but only a problem on the leadscrew, not the cross-slide.
                        >
                        > Regards,
                        > Tony
                        > On 1 Apr 2013 18:03, "Ron Thompson" <ron@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > > CNC is capable of contour cuts, like in a chess pawn. So, yes, backlash
                        > > can be a problem.
                        > >
                        > > On 4/1/2013 12:11 PM, Paul J. Ste. Marie wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > On 3/31/2013 9:58 AM, Tony Jeffree wrote:
                        > > > > because going from
                        > > > > cutting up to a peak to cutting dowwn to a valley there is a
                        > reversal
                        > > in
                        > > > > the direction in which the leadscrew backlash is taken up.
                        > > >
                        > > > Are you talking about the carriage or the cross slide?
                        > > >
                        > > > Either way, on a lathe, I would expect the cutting force to always
                        > take
                        > > > up the backlash in the same direction. The exception would be in the
                        > > > carriage if you went from a right-hand cut to left-hand cut, but that
                        > > > would require a tool change and thus again backlash is a non-issue.
                        > > >
                        > > > Am I missing something here? Even with something like a recessed
                        > face on
                        > > > a flywheel, you still need to change the tool setup between the
                        > inside
                        > > > of the outer circumference and the outside of the hub.
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > No virus found in this message.
                        > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
                        > > > Version: 2012.0.2240 / Virus Database: 2641/5718 - Release Date:
                        > 04/01/13
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Ron Thompson
                        > > On the Beautiful Florida Space Coast, right beside the Kennedy Space
                        > > Center, USA
                        > >
                        > > Think, Draw, Print. 3D printers ROCK!
                        > >
                        > > http://www.plansandprojects.com/My%20Machines/PrusaMendel2012-1/
                        > >
                        > > http://www.plansandprojects.com My hobby pages are here:
                        > > http://www.plansandprojects.com/My%20Machines/
                        > >
                        > > Visit the castinghobby FAQ:
                        > > http://castinghobbyfaq.bareboogerhost.com/
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ------------------------------------
                        > >
                        > > To Post a message, send it to:
                        > > taigtools@yahoogroups.com
                        > >
                        > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                        > > taigtools-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > >
                        > > Let the chips fly!
                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > To Post a message, send it to:
                        > taigtools@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
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                        >
                        > Let the chips fly!
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
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                        >
                        >


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • chuck
                        thanx Tony, I stand corrected. Chuck ... From: Tony Jeffree To: taigtools Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 4:17 PM Subject: Re: [taigtools] Lathe Cross slide
                        Message 11 of 30 , Apr 1 2:04 PM
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                          thanx Tony,
                          I stand corrected.
                          Chuck

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Tony Jeffree
                          To: taigtools
                          Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 4:17 PM
                          Subject: Re: [taigtools] Lathe Cross slide backlash



                          Chuck

                          Don't confuse the direction of movement with the direction of the cutting
                          forces acting on the tool.

                          When the tool is cutting metal there is always a component of the cutting
                          force that acts in the direcion of the operator, which takes up the
                          backlash in the cross-slide feed screw. The rest of the cutting force acts
                          in the axis of tge leadscrew, either to the right if cutting on the left
                          flank of the tool, or to the left if cutting on the right flank. So cross
                          slide backlash is always taken up in one direction whereas the direction
                          that leadscrew backlash is taken up depends on which flank of the tool is
                          doing the cutting.

                          Regards,
                          Tony
                          On 1 Apr 2013 20:37, "chuck" <chuckels@...> wrote:

                          > Tony,
                          > I would think it would be more of an issue on the cross slide (X axis) and
                          > not the lead screw (Z axis).
                          > when I have watched turning a profile on a piece of stock the Z axis is
                          > moving toward the chuck in one continuous motion while the X axis is moving
                          > in and out reversing direction along the profile than backing away and the
                          > Z moves back to the start to take another cut.
                          > this would make backlash more critical on the cross slide (X axis) I would
                          > think. am I not correct?
                          > I have not done any cnc on a lathe yet but have watched others, it just
                          > seems right.
                          > feel free to correct me if I'm way off base.
                          > Chuck
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: Tony Jeffree
                          > To: taigtools
                          > Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 2:19 PM
                          > Subject: Re: [taigtools] Lathe Cross slide backlash
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ...but only a problem on the leadscrew, not the cross-slide.
                          >
                          > Regards,
                          > Tony
                          > On 1 Apr 2013 18:03, "Ron Thompson" <ron@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > > CNC is capable of contour cuts, like in a chess pawn. So, yes, backlash
                          > > can be a problem.
                          > >
                          > > On 4/1/2013 12:11 PM, Paul J. Ste. Marie wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > On 3/31/2013 9:58 AM, Tony Jeffree wrote:
                          > > > > because going from
                          > > > > cutting up to a peak to cutting dowwn to a valley there is a
                          > reversal
                          > > in
                          > > > > the direction in which the leadscrew backlash is taken up.
                          > > >
                          > > > Are you talking about the carriage or the cross slide?
                          > > >
                          > > > Either way, on a lathe, I would expect the cutting force to always
                          > take
                          > > > up the backlash in the same direction. The exception would be in the
                          > > > carriage if you went from a right-hand cut to left-hand cut, but that
                          > > > would require a tool change and thus again backlash is a non-issue.
                          > > >
                          > > > Am I missing something here? Even with something like a recessed
                          > face on
                          > > > a flywheel, you still need to change the tool setup between the
                          > inside
                          > > > of the outer circumference and the outside of the hub.
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > No virus found in this message.
                          > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
                          > > > Version: 2012.0.2240 / Virus Database: 2641/5718 - Release Date:
                          > 04/01/13
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Ron Thompson
                          > > On the Beautiful Florida Space Coast, right beside the Kennedy Space
                          > > Center, USA
                          > >
                          > > Think, Draw, Print. 3D printers ROCK!
                          > >
                          > > http://www.plansandprojects.com/My%20Machines/PrusaMendel2012-1/
                          > >
                          > > http://www.plansandprojects.com My hobby pages are here:
                          > > http://www.plansandprojects.com/My%20Machines/
                          > >
                          > > Visit the castinghobby FAQ:
                          > > http://castinghobbyfaq.bareboogerhost.com/
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ------------------------------------
                          > >
                          > > To Post a message, send it to:
                          > > taigtools@yahoogroups.com
                          > >
                          > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                          > > taigtools-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          > >
                          > > Let the chips fly!
                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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                        • Tony Jeffree
                          No problem. Regards, Tony ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          Message 12 of 30 , Apr 2 12:11 PM
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                            No problem.

                            Regards,
                            Tony
                            On Apr 1, 2013 10:04 PM, "chuck" <chuckels@...> wrote:

                            > thanx Tony,
                            > I stand corrected.
                            > Chuck
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: Tony Jeffree
                            > To: taigtools
                            > Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 4:17 PM
                            > Subject: Re: [taigtools] Lathe Cross slide backlash
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Chuck
                            >
                            > Don't confuse the direction of movement with the direction of the cutting
                            > forces acting on the tool.
                            >
                            > When the tool is cutting metal there is always a component of the cutting
                            > force that acts in the direcion of the operator, which takes up the
                            > backlash in the cross-slide feed screw. The rest of the cutting force
                            > acts
                            > in the axis of tge leadscrew, either to the right if cutting on the left
                            > flank of the tool, or to the left if cutting on the right flank. So cross
                            > slide backlash is always taken up in one direction whereas the direction
                            > that leadscrew backlash is taken up depends on which flank of the tool is
                            > doing the cutting.
                            >
                            > Regards,
                            > Tony
                            > On 1 Apr 2013 20:37, "chuck" <chuckels@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > > Tony,
                            > > I would think it would be more of an issue on the cross slide (X axis)
                            > and
                            > > not the lead screw (Z axis).
                            > > when I have watched turning a profile on a piece of stock the Z axis is
                            > > moving toward the chuck in one continuous motion while the X axis is
                            > moving
                            > > in and out reversing direction along the profile than backing away and
                            > the
                            > > Z moves back to the start to take another cut.
                            > > this would make backlash more critical on the cross slide (X axis) I
                            > would
                            > > think. am I not correct?
                            > > I have not done any cnc on a lathe yet but have watched others, it just
                            > > seems right.
                            > > feel free to correct me if I'm way off base.
                            > > Chuck
                            > >
                            > > ----- Original Message -----
                            > > From: Tony Jeffree
                            > > To: taigtools
                            > > Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 2:19 PM
                            > > Subject: Re: [taigtools] Lathe Cross slide backlash
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > ...but only a problem on the leadscrew, not the cross-slide.
                            > >
                            > > Regards,
                            > > Tony
                            > > On 1 Apr 2013 18:03, "Ron Thompson" <ron@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > > CNC is capable of contour cuts, like in a chess pawn. So, yes,
                            > backlash
                            > > > can be a problem.
                            > > >
                            > > > On 4/1/2013 12:11 PM, Paul J. Ste. Marie wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > On 3/31/2013 9:58 AM, Tony Jeffree wrote:
                            > > > > > because going from
                            > > > > > cutting up to a peak to cutting dowwn to a valley there is a
                            > > reversal
                            > > > in
                            > > > > > the direction in which the leadscrew backlash is taken up.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Are you talking about the carriage or the cross slide?
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Either way, on a lathe, I would expect the cutting force to always
                            > > take
                            > > > > up the backlash in the same direction. The exception would be in
                            > the
                            > > > > carriage if you went from a right-hand cut to left-hand cut, but
                            > that
                            > > > > would require a tool change and thus again backlash is a non-issue.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Am I missing something here? Even with something like a recessed
                            > > face on
                            > > > > a flywheel, you still need to change the tool setup between the
                            > > inside
                            > > > > of the outer circumference and the outside of the hub.
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > No virus found in this message.
                            > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
                            > > > > Version: 2012.0.2240 / Virus Database: 2641/5718 - Release Date:
                            > > 04/01/13
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > --
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Ron Thompson
                            > > > On the Beautiful Florida Space Coast, right beside the Kennedy Space
                            > > > Center, USA
                            > > >
                            > > > Think, Draw, Print. 3D printers ROCK!
                            > > >
                            > > > http://www.plansandprojects.com/My%20Machines/PrusaMendel2012-1/
                            > > >
                            > > > http://www.plansandprojects.com My hobby pages are here:
                            > > > http://www.plansandprojects.com/My%20Machines/
                            > > >
                            > > > Visit the castinghobby FAQ:
                            > > > http://castinghobbyfaq.bareboogerhost.com/
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > ------------------------------------
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                            > > >
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                            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
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                            > >
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                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Paul J. Ste. Marie
                            ... Isn t the force from the lathe always pushing the tool away from the work? I ve never noticed any tendency for the tool to dig into the work running by
                            Message 13 of 30 , Apr 3 10:21 AM
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                              On 4/1/2013 10:03 AM, Ron Thompson wrote:
                              > CNC is capable of contour cuts, like in a chess pawn. So, yes, backlash
                              > can be a problem.

                              Isn't the force from the lathe always pushing the tool away from the
                              work? I've never noticed any tendency for the tool to dig into the work
                              running by hand, although I haven't turned any brass on the lathe.

                              Typical lathe tools only cut one way in Z, so lead screw backlash isn't
                              usually going to be an issue, either.
                            • Tony Jeffree
                              Paul - See my posts earlier in this thread. You are right about the cross-slide backlash, and right about most plain turning operations, but if you were
                              Message 14 of 30 , Apr 4 5:06 AM
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                                Paul -

                                See my posts earlier in this thread.

                                You are right about the cross-slide backlash, and right about most plain
                                turning operations, but if you were cutting a contour where the tool
                                changes from cutting on one flank to cutting on the other (e.g., a chess
                                piece), then although the Z travel would be all in one direction, the
                                cutting force on the tool would change directions as the cutting action
                                changes flanks. At the point where the direction of the cutting force
                                reverses, the direction in which any leadscrew backlash is taken up also
                                reverses. This is exactly the same problem you get with a milling machine
                                when you try to mill a circular path and you have backlash in the X and/or
                                Y feeds. The reason that it is not a problem with the cross slide is that
                                (for obvious reasons) you never switch from cutting on the nose of the tool
                                to cutting on its back end.

                                Regards,
                                Tony


                                On 3 April 2013 18:21, Paul J. Ste. Marie <taig@...> wrote:

                                > On 4/1/2013 10:03 AM, Ron Thompson wrote:
                                > > CNC is capable of contour cuts, like in a chess pawn. So, yes, backlash
                                > > can be a problem.
                                >
                                > Isn't the force from the lathe always pushing the tool away from the
                                > work? I've never noticed any tendency for the tool to dig into the work
                                > running by hand, although I haven't turned any brass on the lathe.
                                >
                                > Typical lathe tools only cut one way in Z, so lead screw backlash isn't
                                > usually going to be an issue, either.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
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                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Paul J. Ste. Marie
                                ... How does that work? Tool with zero side rake? IIRC that s how Taig grinds their round v-nose tool, but my experiences with that tool have been less than
                                Message 15 of 30 , Apr 5 10:44 AM
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                                  On 4/4/2013 5:06 AM, Tony Jeffree wrote:
                                  > if you were cutting a contour where the tool
                                  > changes from cutting on one flank to cutting on the other (e.g., a chess
                                  > piece), then although the Z travel would be all in one direction, the
                                  > cutting force on the tool would change directions as the cutting action
                                  > changes flanks.

                                  How does that work? Tool with zero side rake? IIRC that's how Taig
                                  grinds their round v-nose tool, but my experiences with that tool have
                                  been less than stellar.

                                  I haven't done any CNC on the lathe, but for something like the little
                                  flange under the head of a chess piece I'd expect to do two passes, one
                                  from the right, a second from the left, and switch out tools in between.
                                • Tony Jeffree
                                  Use a V tool (e.g., a thread cutting tool). Regards, Tony ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Apr 5 11:19 AM
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                                    Use a V tool (e.g., a thread cutting tool).

                                    Regards,
                                    Tony


                                    On 5 April 2013 18:44, Paul J. Ste. Marie <taig@...> wrote:

                                    > On 4/4/2013 5:06 AM, Tony Jeffree wrote:
                                    > > if you were cutting a contour where the tool
                                    > > changes from cutting on one flank to cutting on the other (e.g., a chess
                                    > > piece), then although the Z travel would be all in one direction, the
                                    > > cutting force on the tool would change directions as the cutting action
                                    > > changes flanks.
                                    >
                                    > How does that work? Tool with zero side rake? IIRC that's how Taig
                                    > grinds their round v-nose tool, but my experiences with that tool have
                                    > been less than stellar.
                                    >
                                    > I haven't done any CNC on the lathe, but for something like the little
                                    > flange under the head of a chess piece I'd expect to do two passes, one
                                    > from the right, a second from the left, and switch out tools in between.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ------------------------------------
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                                    >
                                    >


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