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Re: [taigtools] Why not a Taig workshop?

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  • Yi Yao
    ... Hash: SHA1 I agree with Paul. The entire Workshop Practice Series is well written for amateurs. ... Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG
    Message 1 of 42 , Mar 25 7:26 AM
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      I agree with Paul. The entire Workshop Practice Series is well written
      for amateurs.

      On 24/03/13 11:04 PM, Paul J. Ste. Marie wrote:
      > On 3/24/2013 9:57 PM, Yi Yao wrote:
      >> Q: And finally, if you were trying to just learn basic machining
      >> skills, what projects would you consider starting with? A: Turn
      >> and face some metal on a lathe!
      >
      > Harold Hill has a couple of books on lathe and mill projects
      > designed for beginners that produce a range of useful tools. Look
      > for the Workshop Practice Series on Amazon. I highly recommend
      > them. You'll get a very good appreciation for how to align your
      > machines and get accurate results.
      >
      >
      >
      >
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    • Steve Wan
      Hi Yi Yao Thanks for the info, I read about the white Babbitt metal bearings (tin-based). They were cast direct into the spindle. Steve Wan
      Message 42 of 42 , Oct 16, 2013
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        Hi Yi Yao

        Thanks for the info, I read about the white Babbitt metal bearings (tin-based).
        They were cast direct into the spindle.

        Steve Wan

        On 10/16/13, Yi Yao <yi@...> wrote:
        > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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        >
        > Hi Steve,
        >
        > Mine has white Babbitt metal bearings which is older than the bronze
        > bearing type. To be honest, there is significantly more maintenance
        > then sealed bearings or a spindle with a one shot oiler. Supposedly,
        > there is less TIR, but I haven't been able to measure the TIR on
        > products from my Taig or Sherline anyway. It does put a huge
        > limitation on the spindle speeds which is annoying if you are turning
        > diameters less than 1"/25mm.
        >
        > As for adjusting the ways, its quite similar to a Taig with gibs and
        > set screws. Pretty effective and easy to do.
        >
        > Best regards,
        > Yi
        >
        >
        > On 16/10/13 03:00 AM, Steve Wan wrote:
        >>
        >>
        >> Hi Tony
        >>
        >> Since you have a Myford, care to tell us more of the Bronze
        >> bearing and ways to adjust the play? Which is better? Commercial
        >> ones with roller bearings or the traditional sleeve bearings for
        >> home workshop.
        >>
        >> Steve Wan
        >>
        >> On 10/16/13, Tony Jeffree <tony@...> wrote:
        >>> Don -
        >>>
        >>> As a Myford owner, I would agree with you that they are good
        >>> machines, but they have their limitations too. The cross-slide
        >>> really isn't rigid enough for a machine of that size, and even
        >>> the newer "large bore" Myfords don't compete with the Eastern
        >>> imports with regard to the size of the spindle bore. The Boxford
        >>> (an improved version of the South Bend) is actually a better
        >>> machine in that class IMHO.
        >>>
        >>> Regards, Tony
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> On 16 October 2013 04:43, Don Rogers <Don@...>
        >>> wrote:
        >>>
        >>>> The Myford lathes although expensive here in the US, are with
        >>>> out a doubt the lathe I would chose, IF I could afford one. I
        >>>> had the pleasure a couple years back of getting my hands on
        >>>> one. The best design, work envelope and ability to handle line
        >>>> boring, along with a number of "attachments" IE the dividing
        >>>> head attachment for the spindle for one is beyond the ability
        >>>> of any lathe I've ever seen, and I've been looking at them for
        >>>> over 50 years now. Comparing a Myford to a Taig, Sherline,
        >>>> Atlas, South Bend, or any of the other home shop machines is
        >>>> like comparing a Ferrari to a VW bug. No comparison at all.
        >>>> Sure wish I could have scored the one that got away.
        >>>>
        >>>> Don
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>> -----Original Message----- From: taigtools@yahoogroups.com
        >>>> [mailto:taigtools@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Wan Sent:
        >>>> Tuesday, October 15, 2013 7:58 PM To:
        >>>> taigtools@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [taigtools] RE: Why not
        >>>> a Taig workshop?
        >>>>
        >>>> Hi Yi Yao
        >>>>
        >>>> Sherline machines are capable of many jobs, small to medium
        >>>> range if most of the work are aluminium. Moreover, it's
        >>>> designed as such that it could upgrade/modify easily like lego.
        >>>> I think you're going in a circle trying out which machines suit
        >>>> you best. Myford ML7 lathe has ceased production, spares are
        >>>> expensive!
        >>>>
        >>>> CNC is good for profile or mass production. Manual machining
        >>>> is basically for single job and touchup. Better to look into
        >>>> your area of work than machine type.
        >>>>
        >>>> Steve Wan
        >>>>
        >>>> On 10/16/13, Jeffrey Birt <birt_j@...> wrote:
        >>>>> Thanks for the kind words Bill. The real trick to a good CNC
        >>>>> system is to match the components to the job at hand, for
        >>>>> example motors that are too large are as bad as motors that
        >>>>> are too small and not enough gear
        >>>> reduction
        >>>>> (really low pitch lead screws) is as bad as too much.
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>> Since the Taig mill has 20TPI leadscrews a smaller motor with
        >>>>> higher acceleration and maximum velocity will perform better
        >>>>> than a larger
        >>>> motor. A
        >>>>> motor in the size range of the 166oz-in motors I package with
        >>>>> my STDR-4C kits:
        >>>>> http://www.soigeneris.com/stdr_4c-details.aspx are an
        >>>>> excellent
        >>>> match
        >>>>> for the Taig. If you add the line filter/switch box you get
        >>>>> automatic
        >>>> on/off
        >>>>> control of the spindle motor as well. The combination of the
        >>>>> G540 drive
        >>>> from
        >>>>> Gecko and the SmoothStepper from Warp9 make for a powerful
        >>>>> team.
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>> As others have mentioned you can build a similar system
        >>>>> yourself and
        >>>> modify
        >>>>> it to your heart's content. Most of the parts used for the
        >>>>> STDR-4C are available separately from my website as well.
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>> In addition to not falling for the bigger stepper motors are
        >>>>> better trap also be wary of the 12A power supply for the G540
        >>>>> trap. The G540 has an internal 7A very fast blowing fuse. It
        >>>>> will never, never, draw more than
        >>>> 7A.
        >>>>> In fact it will not get close to 7A in normal operation. I
        >>>>> think the confusion comes from how power supplies are rated.
        >>>>> A switch type power supply (more modern type) has a regulated
        >>>>> output voltage and is rated to
        >>>> put
        >>>>> out its maximum current at 100% duty cycle (i.e. it will put
        >>>>> out that
        >>>> amount
        >>>>> of current from no until the cows some home). There are also
        >>>>> simpler 'linear-unregulated' power supplies which are
        >>>>> basically a big
        >>>> transformer,
        >>>>> big capacitor and a bridge rectifier. With an unregulated
        >>>>> supply the more current you draw out of it the lower the
        >>>>> output voltage drops. So for a
        >>>> 48V
        >>>>> 7A unregulated supply the output voltage might only be 40V at
        >>>>> a 7A
        >>>> current
        >>>>> draw. To keep the output voltage up where it needs to be at
        >>>>> full load it
        >>>> is
        >>>>> common to oversize an unregulated supply by 25% or so.
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>> There are some exceptions to the above of course. There are
        >>>>> some switch
        >>>> type
        >>>>> supplies that are designed to output a much higher current
        >>>>> for a brief period of time, on these types of supplies you
        >>>>> will see this as a maximum continuous current and maximum
        >>>>> surge current (in A and number of seconds
        >>>> it
        >>>>> can be sustained). Unregulated supplies are also often not
        >>>>> specified at their 100% duty cycle, you will see this very
        >>>>> commonly on things like welding power supplies, it will say
        >>>>> 200A @15% duty cycle. This means it
        >>>> can
        >>>>> supply 200A for only 1.5minutes out of a ten minute period.
        >>>>> The larger
        >>>> point
        >>>>> is be careful of what your buying, don't buy a huge power
        >>>>> supply just because that is what is being offered for sale
        >>>>> and make sure the power supply is specified the way you
        >>>>> expect.
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>> Jeff Birt
        >>>>>
        >>>>> Soigeneris.com
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>> From: taigtools@yahoogroups.com
        >>>>> [mailto:taigtools@yahoogroups.com] On
        >>>> Behalf
        >>>>> Of bbuck505@... Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 9:24
        >>>>> AM To: taigtools@yahoogroups.com Subject: [taigtools] RE: Why
        >>>>> not a Taig workshop?
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>> Valkcapt
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>> I highly recommend Jeff Birts's STDR-4C controller with his
        >>>>> stepper motor recommendations. This is the setup that I have
        >>>>> and it's been great. I bought mine with the Smoothstepper,
        >>>>> primarily so I could use a laptop. I pretty much mill steel
        >>>>> exclusively (12L14, 1018) and it works very well,
        >>>>> particularly with smaller endmills. Jeff is a terrific vendor
        >>>>> and
        >>>> answered
        >>>>> many questions prior to purchase. I have never regretted
        >>>>> purchasing the Taig and his controller. I also highly
        >>>>> recommend Cambam for your cam software (also purchased from
        >>>>> Jeff).
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>> Bill
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>> ---In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, <valkcapt@...> wrote:
        >>>>>
        >>>>> @jeff birt: I bought the CNC ready Taig mill as you suggest,
        >>>>> and as you may have seen on a previous post, I am preparing
        >>>>> to upgrade to CNC. I
        >>>> would
        >>>>> like to buy the parts now, so I can start the upgrade at any
        >>>>> time.
        >>>> However,
        >>>>> I will probably wait until after I enroll in the CNC course
        >>>>> at the local junior college. However, I don't know what I
        >>>>> need or what the tradeoffs
        >>>> are
        >>>>> (e.g., servo vs. stepper motors; controller model; etc.). I'm
        >>>>> starting
        >>>> to
        >>>>> learn, but I am a long way from being confident. Any
        >>>>> suggestions on how
        >>>> to
        >>>>> go about the transition?
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>> ---In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, <birt_j@...> wrote:
        >>>>>
        >>>>> When talking with someone first getting started one of the
        >>>>> first
        >>>> questions
        >>>>> I ask is "What sort of things will you be making?". It does
        >>>>> not matter how great a machine tool is if it is not suited
        >>>>> for the job at hand. The question of the size of the tool is
        >>>>> an appropriate one. Just as with any tool, say a hammer, one
        >>>>> size does not fit all tasks. The two most used hammers in my
        >>>>> tool box are a 16oz claw hammer and 20oz ball peen. I also
        >>>>> own a sledge hammer which is very useful on occasion but
        >>>>> having a BFH does
        >>>> not
        >>>>> replace my need for the smaller hammers, i.e. I'm not going
        >>>>> to do any framing with a 10# sledge hammer.
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>> For most guys wanting to get into the 'hobbyist' sized things
        >>>>> the Taig is
        >>>> a
        >>>>> good size. It has a decent work envelope and is not too
        >>>>> large. It is also made very well, as others have said many of
        >>>>> the import machines are more like a kit as you have to
        >>>>> rebuild the whole thing to makes something that works decent.
        >>>>> Even with larger machines at my disposal the Taig is still
        >>>>> what I turn too most. Small jobs are hard to do on big, heavy
        >>>>> machines.
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>> So, if the Taig will meet your work envelope requirements it
        >>>>> comes down
        >>>> to
        >>>>> which machine(s) to get. On the lathe side of things I would
        >>>> wholeheartedly
        >>>>> recommend getting the power feed option. The accessories you
        >>>>> purchase
        >>>> will
        >>>>> in large part be determined by what sort of work you will
        >>>>> want to do. The drilling tail stock, drill chuck, bit set,
        >>>>> etc are commonly used things that al universally useful. On
        >>>>> the mill, since you want to use it manually at first I would
        >>>>> suggest getting the CNC Ready mill and adding hand cranks.
        >>>>> This gives you the stepper couplers and better spindle motor
        >>>>> so when you are ready to go to CNC you just need to get a
        >>>>> controller package. In the long run you will save money over
        >>>>> buying the CNC upgrade parts down the road.
        >>>> I
        >>>>> have had many customers go this route.
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>> I hope that is of some help,
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>> Jeff Birt
        >>>>>
        >>>>> Soigeneris.com
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>> From: taigtools@yahoogroups.com
        >>>>> [mailto:taigtools@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of valkcapt
        >>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 10:27 PM To:
        >>>>> taigtools@yahoogroups.com Subject: [taigtools] Why not a Taig
        >>>>> workshop?
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>> I'm a newbie to machining, and am dithering over what to do.
        >>>>> I started
        >>>> out
        >>>>> thinking I would buy a Taig mill and lathe. Then as I read
        >>>>> different
        >>>> posts
        >>>>> in different sites, I decided I needed a bigger setup. The
        >>>>> common theme
        >>>> was
        >>>>> "get the biggest you can get, because you'll soon outgrow
        >>>>> your machines." So I started looking at various Asian
        >>>>> Mini-lathes and mills, thinking I
        >>>> would
        >>>>> buy one, and then the other, until I finally decided on
        >>>>> Lathemaster 9x30 and a Lathemaster LM25L, and also looked at
        >>>>> band saws and belt sanders,
        >>>> because
        >>>>> several sites said I needed those. Supposedly the Lathemaster
        >>>>> is higher quality and bigger than some of the other Asian
        >>>>> machines I considered.
        >>>> Then
        >>>>> I thought about CNC because I love computers, but became
        >>>>> discouraged over all the comments about needing to learn
        >>>>> manual machining first. Then I
        >>>> saw
        >>>>> all the comments saying I should hold out for a used
        >>>>> Bridgeport because
        >>>> all
        >>>>> those Asian imports are crap. Then I looked at my garage and
        >>>>> the limited space I have and thought, where are you going put
        >>>>> all that stuff? And you can hardly drill a decent hole in
        >>>>> wood -- what if you have absolutely no aptitude in machining,
        >>>>> and what are you planning on making anyway? So I started
        >>>>> downsizing my dreams of being a machinist to the point where
        >>>>> I am back at Taig again. I had to relook at my goals.
        >>>>>
        >>>>> First, I want to learn how to make things with my own hands.
        >>>>> Although I have used things that other people have made, I've
        >>>>> never made anything significant involving craftsmanship. I've
        >>>>> spent over 10 years flying jets as a naval aviator and as a
        >>>>> Learjet Captain, 10 years as an Aerospace
        >>>> engineer
        >>>>> involved with aircraft, Space Shuttle, and satellite
        >>>>> projects, and 20
        >>>> years
        >>>>> as a lawyer, so I'm not afraid of trying something new. But I
        >>>>> admire
        >>>> those
        >>>>> of you that make practical or beautiful things out of scraps
        >>>>> of metal,
        >>>> and
        >>>>> I want to be just like you. But I don't know how passionate I
        >>>>> will be until
        >>>> I
        >>>>> do it. I know I am tired of killing trees and inking paper.
        >>>>> Historically, when I start a hobby, I run with it. But that
        >>>>> is only if I love it. Here,
        >>>> I
        >>>>> just imagine I would love it, although it is a much greater
        >>>>> depth of imagination that my desire to play the piano, which
        >>>>> will never happen.
        >>>>>
        >>>>> Second, I want to make models and toys for grandkids as a
        >>>>> means of
        >>>> learning
        >>>>> machining skills.
        >>>>>
        >>>>> Third, I don't know where I am going from there. I would like
        >>>>> to be a
        >>>> hobby
        >>>>> gunsmith so I might put my hopefully acquired machining
        >>>>> skills to work there. Or I might want to make knives, or
        >>>>> pens, or chessmen or whatever.
        >>>> I
        >>>>> see lots of project ideas and even specializations that look
        >>>>> like fun,
        >>>> but
        >>>>> who knows.
        >>>>>
        >>>>> So, I'm back at Taig. I'm thinking that I will either decide
        >>>>> Taig is big enough or it isn't. And when it isn't, I can buy
        >>>>> a bigger set up then.
        >>>> And
        >>>>> since this is forum with a lot of Taig users, I thought I'd
        >>>>> ask this question. Will I regret setting up shop with the
        >>>>> Taig to start with, and
        >>>> if
        >>>>> so, why? And if you are a Taig user that found yourself
        >>>>> size-limited, how long did that take, and do you regret
        >>>>> starting at the micro level? And finally, if you were trying
        >>>>> to just learn basic machining skills, what projects would you
        >>>>> consider starting with?
        >>>>>
        >>>>> If you read this far, thank you. I look forward to reading
        >>>>> your comments.
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
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        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
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        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>
        >>
        >>
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