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Re: [taigtools] Re: Split-bed taig...is it feasible?

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  • Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein
    They use a mild free machining steel - the bed is not heat treated. They assemble the extrusion, fill with concrete, then grind in a climate controlled room.
    Message 1 of 23 , Jul 31, 2001
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      They use a mild free machining steel - the bed is not heat treated. They
      assemble the extrusion, fill with concrete, then grind in a climate
      controlled room.
      felice@... is Felice Luftschein and Nicholas Carter. See our web pages
      http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Robin S." <lasernerd@...>
      To: <taigtools@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 5:33 PM
      Subject: [taigtools] Re: Split-bed taig...is it feasible?


      > The problem with that is that lathe bedways are not just machined and
      > sold. They have to be machined, heat-teated, ground and finished. If
      > they aren't heat-treated, they will bow and are of no good.
    • J.C.Beech@shu.ac.uk
      The Taig bed has not been heat treated and hardend as far as I can tell. Just see what happens if you drag a bit of mild steel over the bed (no recommended)
      Message 2 of 23 , Aug 1, 2001
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        The Taig bed has not been heat treated and hardend as far as I can
        tell. Just see what happens if you drag a bit of mild steel over the
        bed (no recommended)

        Joules

        --- In taigtools@y..., "Robin S." <lasernerd@h...> wrote:
        > The problem with that is that lathe bedways are not just machined
        and
        > sold. They have to be machined, heat-teated, ground and finished.
        If
        > they aren't heat-treated, they will bow and are of no good.
        >
        > Does anyone know what kind of steel Taig uses? Ideally, one would
        > machine, harden, anneal, grind, and lap. This would be expensive
        (to
        > say the least) if you had the entire thing farmed out. It would be
        > nice to bug Taig to make a longer bed. Unlike the Sherline, the
        Taig
        > bed can be supported along its entire length. You would probably
        want
        > to mount the lathe on some cheap surface plate for maximum
        stability.
        >
        > /me starts drooling
        >
        > Regards,
        >
        > Robin
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In taigtools@y..., J.C.Beech@s... wrote:
        > > It would be cheaper and easier just to have a new steel bed made
        > and
        > > ground. Plenty of places can surface grind to 30". Bolt to an
        > alloy
        > > beam...
        > >
        > >
        > > Joules
      • san3@sensewave.com
        Why presicely would aligning the two beds be a problem? I mean industry use split-bed lathes all the time, the local macineshop has a split-bed that they use
        Message 3 of 23 , Aug 3, 2001
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          Why presicely would aligning the two beds be a problem?
          I mean industry use split-bed lathes all the time, the local
          macineshop has a split-bed that they use to turn propelershafts for
          fishing boats, each bed is aprox. 3-4 m long.

          For the most part anything realy precise woul be short enoug to only
          need one bed exept for one thing....turning/crowning and chambering
          barrels( for wich I would use a 4-jaw and a fixed steady any an dial
          indicator to align the barrel up properly)

          Since I´m not exactly rich at the moment the sherline or other lathes
          are just to expensive for my current, rather measly budget.



          San




          --- In taigtools@y..., san3@s... wrote:
          > I mean Is it feasible to remove the bed from its base an attach it
          to
          > a square alu tube(thickwalled) then take a nother bed and use a
          dial
          > indicatior to align it with the first bed(using shims) then when
          > everything is aligned perfectly inject epoxy into all crevices to
          > make shore that nothing will move.
          > The end result being a taig with a 30" bed.
          >
          > I am going to buy a taig lathe in the near future(next couple of
          > months) but altough the pricevs quality is just too good to pass up
          > it is a bit short for some of the stuff I want to use it for.
          > and the double "franken taig" seems feasible, any input would be
          > appreciated.
          >
          > San
        • Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein
          If you have a good straight edge you could probably get it pretty close. Still you may want to get a used US bench lathe... felice@casco.net is Felice
          Message 4 of 23 , Aug 5, 2001
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            If you have a good straight edge you could probably get it pretty close.
            Still you may want to get a used US bench lathe...
            felice@... is Felice Luftschein and Nicholas Carter. See our web pages
            http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: <san3@...>
            To: <taigtools@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 7:10 PM
            Subject: [taigtools] Re: Split-bed taig...is it feasible?


            Why presicely would aligning the two beds be a problem?
            I mean industry use split-bed lathes all the time, the local
            macineshop has a split-bed that they use to turn propelershafts for
            fishing boats, each bed is aprox. 3-4 m long.

            For the most part anything realy precise woul be short enoug to only
            need one bed exept for one thing....turning/crowning and chambering
            barrels( for wich I would use a 4-jaw and a fixed steady any an dial
            indicator to align the barrel up properly)

            Since I´m not exactly rich at the moment the sherline or other lathes
            are just to expensive for my current, rather measly budget.



            San




            --- In taigtools@y..., san3@s... wrote:
            > I mean Is it feasible to remove the bed from its base an attach it
            to
            > a square alu tube(thickwalled) then take a nother bed and use a
            dial
            > indicatior to align it with the first bed(using shims) then when
            > everything is aligned perfectly inject epoxy into all crevices to
            > make shore that nothing will move.
            > The end result being a taig with a 30" bed.
            >
            > I am going to buy a taig lathe in the near future(next couple of
            > months) but altough the pricevs quality is just too good to pass up
            > it is a bit short for some of the stuff I want to use it for.
            > and the double "franken taig" seems feasible, any input would be
            > appreciated.
            >
            > San


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          • san3@sensewave.com
            straight edge.........??? Am I correct in understanding that no one here knows how to align a split bet lathe using a dial indicator??? Either using a long bar
            Message 5 of 23 , Aug 6, 2001
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              straight edge.........???

              Am I correct in understanding that no one here knows how to align a
              split bet lathe using a dial indicator???
              Either using a long bar to attach the indicator to and aligne the
              second bed along 3 axis or using a long test bar between centers to
              do the same.

              San

              --- In taigtools@y..., "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein"
              <felice@c...> wrote:
              > If you have a good straight edge you could probably get it pretty
              close.
              > Still you may want to get a used US bench lathe...
              > felice@c... is Felice Luftschein and Nicholas Carter. See our web
              pages
              > http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: <san3@s...>
              > To: <taigtools@y...>
              > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 7:10 PM
              > Subject: [taigtools] Re: Split-bed taig...is it feasible?
              >
              >
              > Why presicely would aligning the two beds be a problem?
              > I mean industry use split-bed lathes all the time, the local
              > macineshop has a split-bed that they use to turn propelershafts for
              > fishing boats, each bed is aprox. 3-4 m long.
              >
              > For the most part anything realy precise woul be short enoug to only
              > need one bed exept for one thing....turning/crowning and chambering
              > barrels( for wich I would use a 4-jaw and a fixed steady any an dial
              > indicator to align the barrel up properly)
              >
              > Since I´m not exactly rich at the moment the sherline or other
              lathes
              > are just to expensive for my current, rather measly budget.
              >
              >
              >
              > San
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In taigtools@y..., san3@s... wrote:
              > > I mean Is it feasible to remove the bed from its base an attach it
              > to
              > > a square alu tube(thickwalled) then take a nother bed and use a
              > dial
              > > indicatior to align it with the first bed(using shims) then when
              > > everything is aligned perfectly inject epoxy into all crevices to
              > > make shore that nothing will move.
              > > The end result being a taig with a 30" bed.
              > >
              > > I am going to buy a taig lathe in the near future(next couple of
              > > months) but altough the pricevs quality is just too good to pass
              up
              > > it is a bit short for some of the stuff I want to use it for.
              > > and the double "franken taig" seems feasible, any input would be
              > > appreciated.
              > >
              > > San
              >
              >
              > To Post a message, send it to: taigtools@e...
              >
              > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: taigtools-unsubscribe@e...
              >
              >
              >
              > Let the chips fly!
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            • Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein
              If you mean by attaching an indicator to the carriage on the first bed and running it along the first and second, that would get it parallell, a good solution.
              Message 6 of 23 , Aug 6, 2001
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                If you mean by attaching an indicator to the carriage on the first bed and
                running it along the first and second, that would get it parallell, a good
                solution. I don't know where one would get a long test bar though...
                felice@... is Felice Luftschein and Nicholas Carter. See our web pages
                http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: <san3@...>
                To: <taigtools@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 3:58 AM
                Subject: [taigtools] Re: Split-bed taig...is it feasible?


                straight edge.........???

                Am I correct in understanding that no one here knows how to align a
                split bet lathe using a dial indicator???
                Either using a long bar to attach the indicator to and aligne the
                second bed along 3 axis or using a long test bar between centers to
                do the same.

                San

                --- In taigtools@y..., "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein"
                <felice@c...> wrote:
                > If you have a good straight edge you could probably get it pretty
                close.
                > Still you may want to get a used US bench lathe...
                > felice@c... is Felice Luftschein and Nicholas Carter. See our web
                pages
                > http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: <san3@s...>
                > To: <taigtools@y...>
                > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 7:10 PM
                > Subject: [taigtools] Re: Split-bed taig...is it feasible?
                >
                >
                > Why presicely would aligning the two beds be a problem?
                > I mean industry use split-bed lathes all the time, the local
                > macineshop has a split-bed that they use to turn propelershafts for
                > fishing boats, each bed is aprox. 3-4 m long.
                >
                > For the most part anything realy precise woul be short enoug to only
                > need one bed exept for one thing....turning/crowning and chambering
                > barrels( for wich I would use a 4-jaw and a fixed steady any an dial
                > indicator to align the barrel up properly)
                >
                > Since I´m not exactly rich at the moment the sherline or other
                lathes
                > are just to expensive for my current, rather measly budget.
                >
                >
                >
                > San
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In taigtools@y..., san3@s... wrote:
                > > I mean Is it feasible to remove the bed from its base an attach it
                > to
                > > a square alu tube(thickwalled) then take a nother bed and use a
                > dial
                > > indicatior to align it with the first bed(using shims) then when
                > > everything is aligned perfectly inject epoxy into all crevices to
                > > make shore that nothing will move.
                > > The end result being a taig with a 30" bed.
                > >
                > > I am going to buy a taig lathe in the near future(next couple of
                > > months) but altough the pricevs quality is just too good to pass
                up
                > > it is a bit short for some of the stuff I want to use it for.
                > > and the double "franken taig" seems feasible, any input would be
                > > appreciated.
                > >
                > > San
                >
                >
                > To Post a message, send it to: taigtools@e...
                >
                > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: taigtools-unsubscribe@e...
                >
                >
                >
                > Let the chips fly!
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


                To Post a message, send it to: taigtools@...

                To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: taigtools-unsubscribe@...



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              • Stan Stocker
                If you get the two beds darn close, and have a steady rest and a compound slide, you can make your own even with a slight bed misalignment. Use a length of
                Message 7 of 23 , Aug 6, 2001
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                  If you get the two beds darn close, and have a steady rest and a compound slide,
                  you can make your own even with a slight bed misalignment.

                  Use a length of precision ground shaft, even drill rod in a pinch.

                  Cut to length and deburr each end.

                  Hold one end in just the tip of the 3 jaw chuck, put the other end through the
                  steady rest with as little sticking out as possible.

                  Face the exposed end.

                  Set the compound to match the desired center taper, typically 60 degrees.

                  Bore the 60 degree hole for the center. Don't drill it, bore it using the
                  compound.

                  Flip the piece end for end and repeat.

                  Because the stock is running on it's circumference, the bore with be concentric
                  with the OD.

                  TaDa! Quick and dirty alignment bars that are quite accurate made quick and
                  cheap!

                  If you don't have a headstock center, make one up using one of the inexpensive
                  adapters, or in a pinch for alignment, turn a piece of shaft in the 3 jaw to a
                  60 degree point. If you don't take it out, you'll have a headstock center dead
                  on the spindle axis of rotation.

                  If further details are needed I can post later, right now I've got to get on the
                  road!

                  Stan

                  Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein wrote:

                  > If you mean by attaching an indicator to the carriage on the first bed and
                  > running it along the first and second, that would get it parallell, a good
                  > solution. I don't know where one would get a long test bar though...
                  > felice@... is Felice Luftschein and Nicholas Carter. See our web pages
                  > http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: <san3@...>
                  > To: <taigtools@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 3:58 AM
                  > Subject: [taigtools] Re: Split-bed taig...is it feasible?
                  >
                  > straight edge.........???
                  >
                  > Am I correct in understanding that no one here knows how to align a
                  > split bet lathe using a dial indicator???
                  > Either using a long bar to attach the indicator to and aligne the
                  > second bed along 3 axis or using a long test bar between centers to
                  > do the same.
                  >
                  > San
                  >

                  <snipped older thread>
                • Paul Currie
                  I always thought that drill rod was precision ground shaft? How much more accurate is precision ground shaft than drill rod ? [Non-text portions of this
                  Message 8 of 23 , Aug 6, 2001
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                    I always thought that drill rod was precision ground shaft? How much more accurate is "precision ground shaft" than "drill rod"?


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • cadcamcenter@yahoo.co.uk
                    ... much more accurate is precision ground shaft than drill rod ? ... Hi everyone, Where can one buy drill rod or shaft via the internet? Thanks in advance
                    Message 9 of 23 , Aug 7, 2001
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                      --- In taigtools@y..., Paul Currie <pwc@s...> wrote:
                      > I always thought that drill rod was precision ground shaft? How
                      much more accurate is "precision ground shaft" than "drill rod"?
                      >

                      Hi everyone,

                      Where can one buy drill rod or shaft via the internet?

                      Thanks in advance

                      Peter
                    • Des Bromilow
                      If drill rod is silver steel, I would think chronos would have it (they re in the UK) I can give the url for an australian place (just up the road form me)
                      Message 10 of 23 , Aug 7, 2001
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                        If drill rod is silver steel, I would think chronos would have it (they're in the UK)

                        I can give the url for an australian place (just up the road form me) but I would think chronos would be easier for you.

                        Des

                        >>> cadcamcenter@... 8/08/01 3:37:38 am >>>
                        --- In taigtools@y..., Paul Currie <pwc@s...> wrote:
                        > I always thought that drill rod was precision ground shaft? How
                        much more accurate is "precision ground shaft" than "drill rod"?
                        >

                        Hi everyone,

                        Where can one buy drill rod or shaft via the internet?

                        Thanks in advance

                        Peter


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                      • Stan Stocker
                        I buy drill rod from Enco, although most mail order places sell it. Noticing your email is in the UK, the equivalent material is silver steel . Drill rod is
                        Message 11 of 23 , Aug 7, 2001
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                          I buy drill rod from Enco, although most mail order places sell it. Noticing
                          your email is in the UK, the equivalent material is "silver steel".

                          Drill rod is typically very round, but is not guaranteed to be much better
                          than half a thou. If you measure a few points you'll typically find it to be
                          as round and consistend from one end to the other as precision ground shaft.
                          The stuff sold as precision ground is simply guaranteed to meet certain specs,
                          such as concenticity to a tenth rather than a half thou. Look closely at the
                          ends of the drill rod though, it is often sheared to size rather than cut. I
                          typically regard the inch or so on each end as scrap.

                          Stan

                          cadcamcenter@... wrote:

                          > --- In taigtools@y..., Paul Currie <pwc@s...> wrote:
                          > > I always thought that drill rod was precision ground shaft? How
                          > much more accurate is "precision ground shaft" than "drill rod"?
                          > >
                          >
                          > Hi everyone,
                          >
                          > Where can one buy drill rod or shaft via the internet?
                          >
                          > Thanks in advance
                          >
                          > Peter
                          >
                          > To Post a message, send it to: taigtools@...
                          >
                          > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: taigtools-unsubscribe@...
                          >
                          > Let the chips fly!
                          >
                          >
                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        • Stan Stocker
                          Paul; Precision ground shaft is guaranteed to be concentic and true to size over the entire length within tighter tolerances than drill rod. In reality, the
                          Message 12 of 23 , Aug 7, 2001
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                            Paul;

                            Precision ground shaft is guaranteed to be concentic and true to size over the entire length within tighter tolerances than drill
                            rod. In reality, the quality of the centerless grinders in use today make this less of an issue than in the past. We had a chat on
                            this a while ago and testing on V blocks with a tenths reading indicator showed that the samples of drill rod I had handy where for
                            all pratical purposes "truly round." As a test bar only has to have a constant diameter, and not a specific diameter, drill rod is
                            likely as good a material as precision ground shaft, and is cheaper and easier to get as a bonus.

                            Watch the ends of drill rod lengths, they are often chopped rather than sawn, the end inch or so is often distorted.

                            Stan

                            Paul Currie wrote:

                            > I always thought that drill rod was precision ground shaft? How much more accurate is "precision ground shaft" than "drill rod"?
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            > To Post a message, send it to: taigtools@...
                            >
                            > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: taigtools-unsubscribe@...
                            >
                            > Let the chips fly!
                            >
                            >
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                          • garry.foster@verizon.net
                            http://www.mcmaster.com/ http://www.use-enco.com/ http://www.metalmart.com/ And from almost everyone else that sells tooling.. Garry
                            Message 13 of 23 , Aug 7, 2001
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                              http://www.mcmaster.com/
                              http://www.use-enco.com/
                              http://www.metalmart.com/


                              And from almost everyone else that sells tooling..

                              Garry


                              -- In taigtools@y..., cadcamcenter@y... wrote:
                              > --- In taigtools@y..., Paul Currie <pwc@s...> wrote:
                              > > I always thought that drill rod was precision ground shaft? How
                              > much more accurate is "precision ground shaft" than "drill rod"?
                              > >
                              >
                              > Hi everyone,
                              >
                              > Where can one buy drill rod or shaft via the internet?
                              >
                              > Thanks in advance
                              >
                              > Peter
                            • Tony Jeffree
                              ... The British don t call anything drill rod - it is an American term. We have silver steel on this side of the pond which is a hardenable carbon steel -
                              Message 14 of 23 , Aug 8, 2001
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                                At 17:17 08/08/2001 +0000, you wrote:
                                >What the British call drill rod is far from what it is in USA. On L side of
                                >pond it's a carbon or carbon alloy steel that runs about 80-100,000 PSI
                                >UTS, and it is suitable for making most cutting tools and structural parts
                                >like axles for motorcycles, piston pins, etc. In Britain if I got this
                                >right it's a high carbon steel that has poor ductility, and it should not
                                >be used for structural stuff.

                                The British don't call anything drill rod - it is an American term. We
                                have silver steel on this side of the pond which is a hardenable carbon
                                steel - can't vouch for its ductility though.

                                Regards,
                                Tony
                              • batwings@i-plus.net
                                ... What the British call drill rod is far from what it is in USA. On L side of pond it s a carbon or carbon alloy steel that runs about 80-100,000 PSI UTS,
                                Message 15 of 23 , Aug 8, 2001
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                                  At 07:29 AM 8/8/01 +1000, you wrote:
                                  >If drill rod is silver steel, I would think chronos would have it

                                  What the British call drill rod is far from what it is in USA. On L side of
                                  pond it's a carbon or carbon alloy steel that runs about 80-100,000 PSI
                                  UTS, and it is suitable for making most cutting tools and structural parts
                                  like axles for motorcycles, piston pins, etc. In Britain if I got this
                                  right it's a high carbon steel that has poor ductility, and it should not
                                  be used for structural stuff.

                                  Regards,

                                  Hoyt

                                  Belfab CNC - http://www.freeyellow.com/members/belfab/belfab.html
                                  Best MC Repair - http://www.freeyellow.com/members/batwings/best.html
                                  Camping/Caving - http://www.freeyellow.com/members/batwings/caving.html
                                  Ten Myths - http://www.iwf.org/news/010417.shtml
                                  God shot off a cherry bomb and there was a Big Bang.
                                • Robin S.
                                  I wouldn t be too worried about the initial alignment of the beds. The problem is time. Over time, the beds would drift and you would have to realign them.
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Aug 9, 2001
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                                    I wouldn't be too worried about the initial alignment of the beds.
                                    The problem is time. Over time, the beds would drift and you would
                                    have to realign them. This would be a big problem if you took a
                                    reasonably heavy cut on the lathe. Also, metals tend to stress-
                                    relieve with time. This would also cause mis-alignment. Course, if
                                    you're not splitting thousandths, all these factors may not apply.
                                    However, you're going to have trouble turning *accurate* work on a
                                    lathe with two beds attached like this.

                                    You'd probably want to mount the beds to a cast aluminum plate, or
                                    (better yet) a surface plate. Course, if you're going to go out and
                                    buy a surface plate, you might as well just go hunting for a used
                                    bench lathe.

                                    If I had a little extra money to spend on a project like this, I
                                    would get a bed machined and ground. You're going to end up with a
                                    more stable system AND you get to design your own lathe.

                                    Regards,

                                    Robin
                                  • san3@sensewave.com
                                    I was planing to use epoxy to fill up any space left between the bed and the base(square thick-walled alu tubing)wich would most probably be filled with
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Aug 9, 2001
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                                      I was planing to use epoxy to fill up any space left between the bed
                                      and the base(square thick-walled alu tubing)wich would most probably
                                      be filled with concrete or altrenatively a piece of steel roundstock
                                      fitting inside the square tubing and use epoxy to ancor it/fill up
                                      the space(corners) not filled by the roundstock.
                                      so the end result would probably be more stable than the original
                                      single bed taig ever was.

                                      Btw: a I think alot of people misunderstood the stuff about the use
                                      of an dial indicator for alignment. all the is needed is a steel bar
                                      that is dimentionably stable(or has an stable amoubt of sag whes
                                      suported at the end only) attach one end to/in the tool-post and the
                                      indicator to the other end .Indicate across(back to front) of each of
                                      the beds near the split unthill there is no detectable difference in
                                      height between the two beds then repeat with same place on bed A and
                                      the end of bed B (note: the bar holding the indicator has to be long
                                      enough to alow the indicator to touch the begining of bed B when the
                                      carriage is at the beginning of bed A(headstock removed))

                                      One can of cource use a test bar between centers and indicate aginst
                                      it but for such a small lathe the metod described above is alot
                                      easier.

                                      PS: as far as such a testbar is concerned ...I already have a larger
                                      lathe so making one myself using a toolpost grinder is always doable
                                      if need be.

                                      San


                                      --- In taigtools@y..., "Robin S." <lasernerd@h...> wrote:
                                      > I wouldn't be too worried about the initial alignment of the beds.
                                      > The problem is time. Over time, the beds would drift and you would
                                      > have to realign them. This would be a big problem if you took a
                                      > reasonably heavy cut on the lathe. Also, metals tend to stress-
                                      > relieve with time. This would also cause mis-alignment. Course, if
                                      > you're not splitting thousandths, all these factors may not apply.
                                      > However, you're going to have trouble turning *accurate* work on a
                                      > lathe with two beds attached like this.
                                      >
                                      > You'd probably want to mount the beds to a cast aluminum plate, or
                                      > (better yet) a surface plate. Course, if you're going to go out and
                                      > buy a surface plate, you might as well just go hunting for a used
                                      > bench lathe.
                                      >
                                      > If I had a little extra money to spend on a project like this, I
                                      > would get a bed machined and ground. You're going to end up with a
                                      > more stable system AND you get to design your own lathe.
                                      >
                                      > Regards,
                                      >
                                      > Robin
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