Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Help needed...

Expand Messages
  • Chris Ghent
    I can t claim to be a beginner at this, I must have thousands of hours up on my mill. Nevertheless I am having a problem, one I feel I should be able to solve
    Message 1 of 7 , Jul 1, 2010
      I can't claim to be a beginner at this, I must have thousands of hours
      up on my mill. Nevertheless I am having a problem, one I feel I should
      be able to solve quickly, but I can't.

      Put simply, after about 30 mins my spindle is out of position. It
      always seems to involve the Y axis, and just occasionally the X axis,
      and once I suspected the Z axis but I'm not sure. The Y is always out by
      anywhere from .25 to 1.5mm, but usually around .4mm.

      The controller is a standard Taig stepper system circa 2005. My feeds
      and cutting depths are relatively conservative. I usually cut wood and
      brass. The backlash is around 2 thou per axis.

      When it first happened I did the usual things, I adjusted and lubricated
      the mill. When that didn't fix it I did it again, and then again. The
      thing slides so beautifully, I feel proud of it. But adjusting
      mechanical items did not clear up the problem. In desperation, as I need
      the mill for my income, I rebuilt the software on the computer that runs
      it. No change.

      If I assume my efforts in the mechanical and computer software rebuilds
      were done well, this leaves a problem with the controller or the
      steppers, or the wiring in between.

      Is this a typical symptom of controller issues?

      Can anyone else suggest things I might need to check?

      In hope and with best wishes

      Chris
    • Leonard Davis
      Criss, When you say you did the useual things does that inclued indicating the table and saddle? Removeing the table, saddle and checking the gibs, saddle,
      Message 2 of 7 , Jul 1, 2010
        Criss, When you say you did the useual things does that inclued indicating the table and saddle? Removeing the table, saddle and checking the gibs, saddle, and track? Trueing and tramming the mill before you start, torque down the set screws ? If so than I am at a loss as to what it might be. I have seen a simlar thing in a shop on a Bridgeport where swarf somehow got caught in between the gibs and the saddle. It was just enough to throw your indication out by about .0095" at one place along the track, up to that point it was dead on. You say you cut wood it could be saw dust. If you haven't done a teardown and rebuild lately then maybe it's time. As I am writeing this I had a thought, walk the table and saddle through manualy from one end to the other indicating as you go. It might narrow down just where the problen might be.
        L.D.




        ________________________________
        From: Chris Ghent <cghent@...>
        To: taigtools@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thu, July 1, 2010 5:48:59 AM
        Subject: [taigtools] Help needed...

         
        I can't claim to be a beginner at this, I must have thousands of hours
        up on my mill. Nevertheless I am having a problem, one I feel I should
        be able to solve quickly, but I can't.

        Put simply, after about 30 mins my spindle is out of position. It
        always seems to involve the Y axis, and just occasionally the X axis,
        and once I suspected the Z axis but I'm not sure. The Y is always out by
        anywhere from .25 to 1.5mm, but usually around .4mm.

        The controller is a standard Taig stepper system circa 2005. My feeds
        and cutting depths are relatively conservative. I usually cut wood and
        brass. The backlash is around 2 thou per axis.

        When it first happened I did the usual things, I adjusted and lubricated
        the mill. When that didn't fix it I did it again, and then again. The
        thing slides so beautifully, I feel proud of it. But adjusting
        mechanical items did not clear up the problem. In desperation, as I need
        the mill for my income, I rebuilt the software on the computer that runs
        it. No change.

        If I assume my efforts in the mechanical and computer software rebuilds
        were done well, this leaves a problem with the controller or the
        steppers, or the wiring in between.

        Is this a typical symptom of controller issues?

        Can anyone else suggest things I might need to check?

        In hope and with best wishes

        Chris







        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Lester Caine
        ... How much use has THIS machine had? There has been a discussion in a couple of other lists on how stepper motors perform after many hundreds of hours of
        Message 3 of 7 , Jul 1, 2010
          Chris Ghent wrote:
          > If I assume my efforts in the mechanical and computer software rebuilds
          > were done well, this leaves a problem with the controller or the
          > steppers, or the wiring in between.
          >
          > Is this a typical symptom of controller issues?
          >
          > Can anyone else suggest things I might need to check?

          How much use has THIS machine had? There has been a discussion in a couple of
          other lists on how stepper motors perform after many hundreds of hours of use. I
          certainly am looking to replace motors on older machines and missing steps is
          certainly one of the indications that something is running out of power.

          If you halve your normal feed rates does it make any difference. If it does then
          I would suspect that the motors are just getting 'soft' ...

          --
          Lester Caine - G8HFL
          -----------------------------
          Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
          L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
          EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
          Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk//
          Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php
        • Brian D. W.
          Could your steps/rev. be accumulating error over time?.?.  That s the first thing that comes to my mind.  I m definitely not an expert though, but if you
          Message 4 of 7 , Jul 1, 2010
            Could your steps/rev. be accumulating error over time?.?.  That's the first thing that comes to my mind.  I'm definitely not an expert though, but if you start noticing the error after 30min, maybe it could explain why sometimes it's y-axis and then sometimes it's noticed on the x-axis..  If your g-code has more y movements or x movements,, maybe that's what your seeing.  
            brian,

            --- On Thu, 7/1/10, Chris Ghent <cghent@...> wrote:

            From: Chris Ghent <cghent@...>
            Subject: [taigtools] Help needed...
            To: taigtools@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Thursday, July 1, 2010, 5:48 AM
















             









            I can't claim to be a beginner at this, I must have thousands of hours

            up on my mill. Nevertheless I am having a problem, one I feel I should

            be able to solve quickly, but I can't.



            Put simply, after about 30 mins my spindle is out of position. It

            always seems to involve the Y axis, and just occasionally the X axis,

            and once I suspected the Z axis but I'm not sure. The Y is always out by

            anywhere from .25 to 1.5mm, but usually around .4mm.



            The controller is a standard Taig stepper system circa 2005. My feeds

            and cutting depths are relatively conservative. I usually cut wood and

            brass. The backlash is around 2 thou per axis.



            When it first happened I did the usual things, I adjusted and lubricated

            the mill. When that didn't fix it I did it again, and then again. The

            thing slides so beautifully, I feel proud of it. But adjusting

            mechanical items did not clear up the problem. In desperation, as I need

            the mill for my income, I rebuilt the software on the computer that runs

            it. No change.



            If I assume my efforts in the mechanical and computer software rebuilds

            were done well, this leaves a problem with the controller or the

            steppers, or the wiring in between.



            Is this a typical symptom of controller issues?



            Can anyone else suggest things I might need to check?



            In hope and with best wishes



            Chris






























            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein
            I had that happen when my coolant solenoid was on the same circuit as the mill controller. I vote for extra steps from electrical noise, etc. as Don says. ...
            Message 5 of 7 , Jul 1, 2010
              I had that happen when my coolant solenoid was on the same circuit as
              the mill controller. I vote for extra steps from electrical noise, etc.
              as Don says.

              On 7/1/2010 11:35 AM, Don Rogers wrote:
              > One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is noise. My Taig would get random
              > steps when I ran the spindle at top speed. Without any movement of the
              > axis, and the spindle running wide open, I would hear a Tick now and then.
              > I went nuts trying to find the problem with the spindle bearings and motor
              > only to notice that the tick was coming from the Z stepper motor. It only
              > happened at max rpm, so I did some grounding checks and added a couple
              > ground paths and things cleared up. You may have a ground lug that is loose
              > or broken over time. I would check that out along with the other
              > suggestions.
              >
              >
              >
              > Don
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > To Post a message, send it to:
              > taigtools@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
              > taigtools-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Let the chips fly!
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >

              --
              felice@... is Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein. See our
              homepage at www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html
            • Don Rogers
              One thing that hasn t been mentioned yet is noise. My Taig would get random steps when I ran the spindle at top speed. Without any movement of the axis, and
              Message 6 of 7 , Jul 1, 2010
                One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is noise. My Taig would get random
                steps when I ran the spindle at top speed. Without any movement of the
                axis, and the spindle running wide open, I would hear a Tick now and then.
                I went nuts trying to find the problem with the spindle bearings and motor
                only to notice that the tick was coming from the Z stepper motor. It only
                happened at max rpm, so I did some grounding checks and added a couple
                ground paths and things cleared up. You may have a ground lug that is loose
                or broken over time. I would check that out along with the other
                suggestions.



                Don



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • cffabrications
                I tend to agree too. My TAIG with the Xylotex controller will lose steps only in one direction on the X and Z axes, and I spent so much time hunting for the
                Message 7 of 7 , Jul 2, 2010
                  I tend to agree too. My TAIG with the Xylotex controller will lose steps only in one direction on the X and Z axes, and I spent so much time hunting for the cause until it was in the middle of a program milling around a 4th axis and my air compressor kicked on and it raised the Z about .030. I was having problems with them creeping a thousandth or so on every movement in one direction until this happened.

                  --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein <felice@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I had that happen when my coolant solenoid was on the same circuit as
                  > the mill controller. I vote for extra steps from electrical noise, etc.
                  > as Don says.
                  >
                  > On 7/1/2010 11:35 AM, Don Rogers wrote:
                  > > One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is noise. My Taig would get random
                  > > steps when I ran the spindle at top speed. Without any movement of the
                  > > axis, and the spindle running wide open, I would hear a Tick now and then.
                  > > I went nuts trying to find the problem with the spindle bearings and motor
                  > > only to notice that the tick was coming from the Z stepper motor. It only
                  > > happened at max rpm, so I did some grounding checks and added a couple
                  > > ground paths and things cleared up. You may have a ground lug that is loose
                  > > or broken over time. I would check that out along with the other
                  > > suggestions.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Don
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------------------
                  > >
                  > > To Post a message, send it to:
                  > > taigtools@yahoogroups.com
                  > >
                  > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                  > > taigtools-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > >
                  > > Let the chips fly!
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  > --
                  > felice@... is Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein. See our
                  > homepage at www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html
                  >
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.