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Baby's got backlash?

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  • Athena
    Ok, the new Geckodrives totally rock. A lot of my problems disappeared. More than I could ever have hoped for. However, my circles are still not being all
    Message 1 of 27 , Jun 3, 2010
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      Ok, the new Geckodrives totally rock. A lot of my problems disappeared. More than I could ever have hoped for. However, my circles are still not being all they can be. :-(

      I tried to measure my backlash. The holder for the dial indicator is a bit funky. The indicator is hard to zero sometimes. It's like I'm chasing it. It's not mine - it came with the mill. The indicator itself is an old Mitutoyo - not Harbor Freight.

      I measured 0.003" on both X & Y. I added that to the backlash correction and it didn't seem to help. Upping it to 0.006" clearly made things worse. And it was weird to watch - there was a visible hitch in the motor movement at the appropriate points. Without it, the motion looks nice and smooth to the naked eye, but then my naked eyes aren't good for much ;-> Safety glasses don't help. Here are some photos:

      http://home.comcast.net/~ath3na/TaigCircles2a.jpg
      http://home.comcast.net/~ath3na/TaigCircles2b.jpg

      2a shows a circle with 0.006" backlash correction on the right. The two on the left are without it. The top left one was cut CW, the bottom CCW. The one in the center is piece of circular scrap superglued down because someone was likely to fault my use of doublesided tape. ;-> It was cut CW.

      Yeah, it's hard to see the problems on the ones on the left, so I took another shot (2b). Not that much better, but you can see the start/end point notches on the right. Sorry I don't have a closeup lens.

      Size-wise, they should be 0.400" in diameter. The CW is 0.400 - 0.405, CCW one is 0.391 to 0.397.

      Also, I'm not pushing things... I'm cutting at 2 IPM with 0.020" passes.

      Any ideas?

      Thanks,
      ...Athena
    • Will Schmit
      I have never heard of backlash correction actually working. I m sure it actually does, cause the guys at mach are pretty smart. Do everything you can to
      Message 2 of 27 , Jun 3, 2010
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        I have never heard of backlash correction actually working. I'm sure it actually does, cause the guys at mach are pretty smart.

        Do everything you can to adjust the acme nut and the fixture that holds the screw rigid.

        I wish I could tell you where they are, but I use ballscrews.




        ________________________________
        From: Athena <ath3na@...>
        To: taigtools@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thu, June 3, 2010 5:26:33 PM
        Subject: [taigtools] Baby's got backlash?


        Ok, the new Geckodrives totally rock. A lot of my problems disappeared. More than I could ever have hoped for. However, my circles are still not being all they can be. :-(

        I tried to measure my backlash. The holder for the dial indicator is a bit funky. The indicator is hard to zero sometimes. It's like I'm chasing it. It's not mine - it came with the mill. The indicator itself is an old Mitutoyo - not Harbor Freight.

        I measured 0.003" on both X & Y. I added that to the backlash correction and it didn't seem to help. Upping it to 0.006" clearly made things worse. And it was weird to watch - there was a visible hitch in the motor movement at the appropriate points. Without it, the motion looks nice and smooth to the naked eye, but then my naked eyes aren't good for much ;-> Safety glasses don't help. Here are some photos:

        http://home.comcast.net/~ath3na/TaigCircles2a.jpg
        http://home.comcast.net/~ath3na/TaigCircles2b.jpg

        2a shows a circle with 0.006" backlash correction on the right. The two on the left are without it. The top left one was cut CW, the bottom CCW. The one in the center is piece of circular scrap superglued down because someone was likely to fault my use of doublesided tape. ;-> It was cut CW.

        Yeah, it's hard to see the problems on the ones on the left, so I took another shot (2b). Not that much better, but you can see the start/end point notches on the right. Sorry I don't have a closeup lens.

        Size-wise, they should be 0.400" in diameter. The CW is 0.400 - 0.405, CCW one is 0.391 to 0.397.

        Also, I'm not pushing things... I'm cutting at 2 IPM with 0.020" passes.

        Any ideas?

        Thanks,
        ...Athena




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • greg.mcfadden
        Are you making a finishing pass? The difference in diameter can easily be caused by the flex of the bit while cutting. That being said, I have not had great
        Message 3 of 27 , Jun 3, 2010
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          Are you making a finishing pass? The difference in diameter can easily be
          caused by the flex of the bit while cutting.

          That being said, I have not had great luck with backlash compensation....
          acceptable luck, but not great. I tend to avoid it if possible (especially
          in stainless steels)

          second

          On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 4:26 PM, Athena <ath3na@...> wrote:

          >
          >
          > Ok, the new Geckodrives totally rock. A lot of my problems disappeared.
          > More than I could ever have hoped for. However, my circles are still not
          > being all they can be. :-(
          >
          > I tried to measure my backlash. The holder for the dial indicator is a bit
          > funky. The indicator is hard to zero sometimes. It's like I'm chasing it.
          > It's not mine - it came with the mill. The indicator itself is an old
          > Mitutoyo - not Harbor Freight.
          >
          > I measured 0.003" on both X & Y. I added that to the backlash correction
          > and it didn't seem to help. Upping it to 0.006" clearly made things worse.
          > And it was weird to watch - there was a visible hitch in the motor movement
          > at the appropriate points. Without it, the motion looks nice and smooth to
          > the naked eye, but then my naked eyes aren't good for much ;-> Safety
          > glasses don't help. Here are some photos:
          >
          > http://home.comcast.net/~ath3na/TaigCircles2a.jpg<http://home.comcast.net/%7Eath3na/TaigCircles2a.jpg>
          > http://home.comcast.net/~ath3na/TaigCircles2b.jpg<http://home.comcast.net/%7Eath3na/TaigCircles2b.jpg>
          >
          > 2a shows a circle with 0.006" backlash correction on the right. The two on
          > the left are without it. The top left one was cut CW, the bottom CCW. The
          > one in the center is piece of circular scrap superglued down because someone
          > was likely to fault my use of doublesided tape. ;-> It was cut CW.
          >
          > Yeah, it's hard to see the problems on the ones on the left, so I took
          > another shot (2b). Not that much better, but you can see the start/end point
          > notches on the right. Sorry I don't have a closeup lens.
          >
          > Size-wise, they should be 0.400" in diameter. The CW is 0.400 - 0.405, CCW
          > one is 0.391 to 0.397.
          >
          > Also, I'm not pushing things... I'm cutting at 2 IPM with 0.020" passes.
          >
          > Any ideas?
          >
          > Thanks,
          > ...Athena
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Athena
          I m just slightly concerned about the bit flexing because for shell I m using these PCB routers with a wicked long depth of cut. I did a test prior to my
          Message 4 of 27 , Jun 3, 2010
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            I'm just slightly concerned about the bit flexing because for shell I'm using these PCB routers with a wicked long depth of cut. I did a test prior to my xylotex blowing up and got similar results with a short end mill (not on shell). That's on my list of things to try next.

            I'm cutting in 0.020" passes, so I didn't do a finishing pass. The cut quality otherwise is great. I did mistakenly cut one all the way through (0.060") in one pass and the finish on the edges was not as nice.

            I never like cutting circles by hand. Unfortunately the Taig doesn't either. ;-> A slight flat spot really won't be noticeable... but the dip at the start/end point is a bummer.

            Thanks,
            ...Athena

            --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "greg.mcfadden" <greg.mcfadden@...> wrote:
            >
            > Are you making a finishing pass? The difference in diameter can easily be
            > caused by the flex of the bit while cutting.
            >
            > That being said, I have not had great luck with backlash compensation....
            > acceptable luck, but not great. I tend to avoid it if possible (especially
            > in stainless steels)
            >
            > second
            >
            > On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 4:26 PM, Athena <ath3na@...> wrote:
            >
            > >
            > >
            > > Ok, the new Geckodrives totally rock. A lot of my problems disappeared.
            > > More than I could ever have hoped for. However, my circles are still not
            > > being all they can be. :-(
            > >
            > > I tried to measure my backlash. The holder for the dial indicator is a bit
            > > funky. The indicator is hard to zero sometimes. It's like I'm chasing it.
            > > It's not mine - it came with the mill. The indicator itself is an old
            > > Mitutoyo - not Harbor Freight.
            > >
            > > I measured 0.003" on both X & Y. I added that to the backlash correction
            > > and it didn't seem to help. Upping it to 0.006" clearly made things worse.
            > > And it was weird to watch - there was a visible hitch in the motor movement
            > > at the appropriate points. Without it, the motion looks nice and smooth to
            > > the naked eye, but then my naked eyes aren't good for much ;-> Safety
            > > glasses don't help. Here are some photos:
            > >
            > > http://home.comcast.net/~ath3na/TaigCircles2a.jpg<http://home.comcast.net/%7Eath3na/TaigCircles2a.jpg>
            > > http://home.comcast.net/~ath3na/TaigCircles2b.jpg<http://home.comcast.net/%7Eath3na/TaigCircles2b.jpg>
            > >
            > > 2a shows a circle with 0.006" backlash correction on the right. The two on
            > > the left are without it. The top left one was cut CW, the bottom CCW. The
            > > one in the center is piece of circular scrap superglued down because someone
            > > was likely to fault my use of doublesided tape. ;-> It was cut CW.
            > >
            > > Yeah, it's hard to see the problems on the ones on the left, so I took
            > > another shot (2b). Not that much better, but you can see the start/end point
            > > notches on the right. Sorry I don't have a closeup lens.
            > >
            > > Size-wise, they should be 0.400" in diameter. The CW is 0.400 - 0.405, CCW
            > > one is 0.391 to 0.397.
            > >
            > > Also, I'm not pushing things... I'm cutting at 2 IPM with 0.020" passes.
            > >
            > > Any ideas?
            > >
            > > Thanks,
            > > ...Athena
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein
            Make sure you switch off backlash comp when checking for backlash, then enter the values and turn it back on. I get within a thou with backlash comp on. You do
            Message 5 of 27 , Jun 3, 2010
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              Make sure you switch off backlash comp when checking for backlash, then
              enter the values and turn it back on. I get within a thou with backlash
              comp on.
              You do get flat spots because of the dwell as it changes directions, the
              bit relaxes...or something like that...and it takes a slightly bigger cut.
              But Backlash comp works well for me.

              Athena wrote:
              > I'm just slightly concerned about the bit flexing because for shell I'm using these PCB routers with a wicked long depth of cut. I did a test prior to my xylotex blowing up and got similar results with a short end mill (not on shell). That's on my list of things to try next.
              >
              > I'm cutting in 0.020" passes, so I didn't do a finishing pass. The cut quality otherwise is great. I did mistakenly cut one all the way through (0.060") in one pass and the finish on the edges was not as nice.
              >
              > I never like cutting circles by hand. Unfortunately the Taig doesn't either. ;-> A slight flat spot really won't be noticeable... but the dip at the start/end point is a bummer.
              >
              > Thanks,
              > ...Athena
              >
              > --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "greg.mcfadden" <greg.mcfadden@...> wrote:
              >> Are you making a finishing pass? The difference in diameter can easily be
              >> caused by the flex of the bit while cutting.
              >>
              >> That being said, I have not had great luck with backlash compensation....
              >> acceptable luck, but not great. I tend to avoid it if possible (especially
              >> in stainless steels)
              >>
              >> second
              >>
              >> On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 4:26 PM, Athena <ath3na@...> wrote:
              >>
              >>>
              >>> Ok, the new Geckodrives totally rock. A lot of my problems disappeared.
              >>> More than I could ever have hoped for. However, my circles are still not
              >>> being all they can be. :-(
              >>>
              >>> I tried to measure my backlash. The holder for the dial indicator is a bit
              >>> funky. The indicator is hard to zero sometimes. It's like I'm chasing it.
              >>> It's not mine - it came with the mill. The indicator itself is an old
              >>> Mitutoyo - not Harbor Freight.
              >>>
              >>> I measured 0.003" on both X & Y. I added that to the backlash correction
              >>> and it didn't seem to help. Upping it to 0.006" clearly made things worse.
              >>> And it was weird to watch - there was a visible hitch in the motor movement
              >>> at the appropriate points. Without it, the motion looks nice and smooth to
              >>> the naked eye, but then my naked eyes aren't good for much ;-> Safety
              >>> glasses don't help. Here are some photos:
              >>>
              >>> http://home.comcast.net/~ath3na/TaigCircles2a.jpg<http://home.comcast.net/%7Eath3na/TaigCircles2a.jpg>
              >>> http://home.comcast.net/~ath3na/TaigCircles2b.jpg<http://home.comcast.net/%7Eath3na/TaigCircles2b.jpg>
              >>>
              >>> 2a shows a circle with 0.006" backlash correction on the right. The two on
              >>> the left are without it. The top left one was cut CW, the bottom CCW. The
              >>> one in the center is piece of circular scrap superglued down because someone
              >>> was likely to fault my use of doublesided tape. ;-> It was cut CW.
              >>>
              >>> Yeah, it's hard to see the problems on the ones on the left, so I took
              >>> another shot (2b). Not that much better, but you can see the start/end point
              >>> notches on the right. Sorry I don't have a closeup lens.
              >>>
              >>> Size-wise, they should be 0.400" in diameter. The CW is 0.400 - 0.405, CCW
              >>> one is 0.391 to 0.397.
              >>>
              >>> Also, I'm not pushing things... I'm cutting at 2 IPM with 0.020" passes.
              >>>
              >>> Any ideas?
              >>>
              >>> Thanks,
              >>> ...Athena
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>
              >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >>
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > To Post a message, send it to:
              > taigtools@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
              > taigtools-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Let the chips fly!
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >

              --
              felice@... is Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein. See our
              homepage at www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html
            • Rudy Munguia
              I just had to re-check and adjust my backlash comp in Mach3 because I did a complete overhaul on my taig. Before ( using a brass nut on Z ) I had backlash of
              Message 6 of 27 , Jun 3, 2010
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                I just had to re-check and adjust my backlash comp in Mach3 because I did a complete overhaul on my taig.

                Before ( using a brass nut on Z ) I had backlash of .04 on Z, .02 on y, and .01 on x.


                After the cleaning and adjusting ( and replacing the brass nut with bronze ) I had what looked like negative backlash! Then I remembered the backlash comp in Mach3. After all the confusion, I turned it off and got .001 on Z, .003 on y, and .0005 on x.

                Turned on the backlash comp on adjusted the values in Mach3 and now everything is silky smooth, and I am still running on the same xylotex 3-axis controller that came with it 5 years ago. (knock on wood)

                I have heard a lot of mixed opinions on the backlash comp though, your mileage may vary.



                ________________________________
                From: Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein <felice@...>
                To: taigtools@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thu, June 3, 2010 6:37:46 PM
                Subject: Re: [taigtools] Re: Baby's got backlash?


                Make sure you switch off backlash comp when checking for backlash, then
                enter the values and turn it back on. I get within a thou with backlash
                comp on.
                You do get flat spots because of the dwell as it changes directions, the
                bit relaxes...or something like that...and it takes a slightly bigger cut.
                But Backlash comp works well for me.

                Athena wrote:
                > I'm just slightly concerned about the bit flexing because for shell I'm using these PCB routers with a wicked long depth of cut. I did a test prior to my xylotex blowing up and got similar results with a short end mill (not on shell). That's on my list of things to try next.
                >
                > I'm cutting in 0.020" passes, so I didn't do a finishing pass. The cut quality otherwise is great. I did mistakenly cut one all the way through (0.060") in one pass and the finish on the edges was not as nice.
                >
                > I never like cutting circles by hand. Unfortunately the Taig doesn't either. ;-> A slight flat spot really won't be noticeable... but the dip at the start/end point is a bummer.
                >
                > Thanks,
                > ...Athena
                >
                > --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "greg.mcfadden" <greg.mcfadden@...> wrote:
                >> Are you making a finishing pass? The difference in diameter can easily be
                >> caused by the flex of the bit while cutting.
                >>
                >> That being said, I have not had great luck with backlash compensation....
                >> acceptable luck, but not great. I tend to avoid it if possible (especially
                >> in stainless steels)
                >>
                >> second
                >>
                >> On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 4:26 PM, Athena <ath3na@...> wrote:
                >>
                >>>
                >>> Ok, the new Geckodrives totally rock. A lot of my problems disappeared.
                >>> More than I could ever have hoped for. However, my circles are still not
                >>> being all they can be. :-(
                >>>
                >>> I tried to measure my backlash. The holder for the dial indicator is a bit
                >>> funky. The indicator is hard to zero sometimes. It's like I'm chasing it.
                >>> It's not mine - it came with the mill. The indicator itself is an old
                >>> Mitutoyo - not Harbor Freight.
                >>>
                >>> I measured 0.003" on both X & Y. I added that to the backlash correction
                >>> and it didn't seem to help. Upping it to 0.006" clearly made things worse.
                >>> And it was weird to watch - there was a visible hitch in the motor movement
                >>> at the appropriate points. Without it, the motion looks nice and smooth to
                >>> the naked eye, but then my naked eyes aren't good for much ;-> Safety
                >>> glasses don't help. Here are some photos:
                >>>
                >>> http://home.comcast.net/~ath3na/TaigCircles2a.jpg<http://home.comcast.net/%7Eath3na/TaigCircles2a.jpg>
                >>> http://home.comcast.net/~ath3na/TaigCircles2b.jpg<http://home.comcast.net/%7Eath3na/TaigCircles2b.jpg>
                >>>
                >>> 2a shows a circle with 0.006" backlash correction on the right. The two on
                >>> the left are without it. The top left one was cut CW, the bottom CCW. The
                >>> one in the center is piece of circular scrap superglued down because someone
                >>> was likely to fault my use of doublesided tape. ;-> It was cut CW.
                >>>
                >>> Yeah, it's hard to see the problems on the ones on the left, so I took
                >>> another shot (2b). Not that much better, but you can see the start/end point
                >>> notches on the right. Sorry I don't have a closeup lens.
                >>>
                >>> Size-wise, they should be 0.400" in diameter. The CW is 0.400 - 0.405, CCW
                >>> one is 0.391 to 0.397.
                >>>
                >>> Also, I'm not pushing things... I'm cutting at 2 IPM with 0.020" passes.
                >>>
                >>> Any ideas?
                >>>
                >>> Thanks,
                >>> ...Athena
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>
                >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >>
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > To Post a message, send it to:
                > taigtools@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                > taigtools-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > Let the chips fly!
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >

                --
                felice@... is Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein. See our
                homepage at www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html







                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Lester Caine
                ... That sounds about right and small enough that you can usually ignore it. ... One thing that I hav always done ... and I dont know if it is fixed nowadays
                Message 7 of 27 , Jun 3, 2010
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                  Rudy Munguia wrote:
                  > I just had to re-check and adjust my backlash comp in Mach3 because I did a complete overhaul on my taig.
                  >
                  > Before ( using a brass nut on Z ) I had backlash of .04 on Z, .02 on y, and .01 on x.
                  >
                  > After the cleaning and adjusting ( and replacing the brass nut with bronze ) I had what looked like negative backlash! Then I remembered the backlash comp in Mach3. After all the confusion, I turned it off and got .001 on Z, .003 on y, and .0005 on x.
                  That sounds about right and small enough that you can usually ignore it.

                  > Turned on the backlash comp on adjusted the values in Mach3 and now everything is silky smooth, and I am still running on the same xylotex 3-axis controller that came with it 5 years ago. (knock on wood)
                  >
                  > I have heard a lot of mixed opinions on the backlash comp though, your mileage may vary.
                  One thing that I hav always done ... and I dont know if it is fixed nowadays ...
                  stop and start Mach3 after switching backlash on or off in Mach3. I'm still not
                  100% convinced it works in practice, but when checking and setting I see the
                  dial gauge go back and forward to the same point using a 5mm jog each way. (
                  It's a metric dial gauge ;) )

                  Athena ...
                  > A slight flat spot really won't be noticeable... but the dip at the start/end point is a bummer.
                  Looking at the pictures, BACKLASH would appear not to be the problem, since this
                  only occurs on one side. Backlash you see tidy flats on all 4 sides.
                  I would be looking at the gCode as that looks like a 'scroll in' type 'nick'
                  rather than simple backlash.

                  --
                  Lester Caine - G8HFL
                  -----------------------------
                  Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
                  L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
                  EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
                  Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk//
                  Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php
                • Lester Caine
                  ... Just a follow up ... move the start point to a 45deg position and see what happens. I had a quick scan down your posts, but I don t think you have said
                  Message 8 of 27 , Jun 4, 2010
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                    Lester Caine wrote:
                    > I would be looking at the gCode as that looks like a 'scroll in' type 'nick'
                    > rather than simple backlash.

                    Just a follow up ... move the start point to a 45deg position and see what happens.
                    I had a quick scan down your posts, but I don't think you have said what you are
                    using to create gCode?

                    --
                    Lester Caine - G8HFL
                    -----------------------------
                    Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
                    L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
                    EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
                    Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk//
                    Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php
                  • frxdy@aol.com
                    The dip/flat at the start-end spot....Hmmm.... it seems if it were backlash it would do it every 90 or 180 degrees, but to have it only an issue at the
                    Message 9 of 27 , Jun 4, 2010
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                      The dip/flat at the start-end spot....Hmmm.... it seems if it were backlash
                      it would do it every 90 or 180 degrees, but to have it only an issue at the
                      start-stop spot makes my think flex. Maybe in the tool shaft, but I'm
                      thinking loose bearing(s) or loose something.


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • cgangot
                      One thing to keep in mind with backlash compensation is that if your machine is anything like mine, the amount of backlash probably varies along the lead
                      Message 10 of 27 , Jun 4, 2010
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                        One thing to keep in mind with backlash compensation is that if your machine is anything like mine, the amount of backlash probably varies along the lead screw, particularly in the x-axis. I ended up measuring at a variety of locations and taking an average. The backlash comp is only as good as your measurements, but in my case it works pretty well.

                        -Chris

                        --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "Athena" <ath3na@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Ok, the new Geckodrives totally rock. A lot of my problems disappeared. More than I could ever have hoped for. However, my circles are still not being all they can be. :-(
                        >
                        > I tried to measure my backlash. The holder for the dial indicator is a bit funky. The indicator is hard to zero sometimes. It's like I'm chasing it. It's not mine - it came with the mill. The indicator itself is an old Mitutoyo - not Harbor Freight.
                        >
                        > I measured 0.003" on both X & Y. I added that to the backlash correction and it didn't seem to help. Upping it to 0.006" clearly made things worse. And it was weird to watch - there was a visible hitch in the motor movement at the appropriate points. Without it, the motion looks nice and smooth to the naked eye, but then my naked eyes aren't good for much ;-> Safety glasses don't help. Here are some photos:
                        >
                        > http://home.comcast.net/~ath3na/TaigCircles2a.jpg
                        > http://home.comcast.net/~ath3na/TaigCircles2b.jpg
                        >
                        > 2a shows a circle with 0.006" backlash correction on the right. The two on the left are without it. The top left one was cut CW, the bottom CCW. The one in the center is piece of circular scrap superglued down because someone was likely to fault my use of doublesided tape. ;-> It was cut CW.
                        >
                        > Yeah, it's hard to see the problems on the ones on the left, so I took another shot (2b). Not that much better, but you can see the start/end point notches on the right. Sorry I don't have a closeup lens.
                        >
                        > Size-wise, they should be 0.400" in diameter. The CW is 0.400 - 0.405, CCW one is 0.391 to 0.397.
                        >
                        > Also, I'm not pushing things... I'm cutting at 2 IPM with 0.020" passes.
                        >
                        > Any ideas?
                        >
                        > Thanks,
                        > ...Athena
                        >
                      • Athena
                        I do see some flat spots. They are far less pronounced with the new drivers. It s something that s more visible with a #5 magnifying lens. I don t have a
                        Message 11 of 27 , Jun 4, 2010
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                          I do see some flat spots. They are far less pronounced with the new drivers. It's something that's more visible with a #5 magnifying lens. I don't have a closeup lens so my photos of tiny parts are pretty crappy. I do realize that issues with the general roundness of the circle are totally anal retentivity on my part. The hitch at the start-stop is not.

                          With other things I was not looking super close because I was creating my tool width offsets in Illustrator. That offset algorithm leaves something to be desired. Once is usually not too bad, but when I make pockets that way you can see the path degrade into something far more angular than what you started with. It's a veritable flat spot generator. ;-> I was so happy initially just to get the machine running. Even cutting inlay parts and pockets that looked great to others to the naked eye. The plastic I was using was swirly translucent and rough cut on top. It was too soft and hard to judge part accuracy. But I don't see a dip at the start/stop point.

                          The circle and my other inlay patterns were made in Adobe Illustrator and exported as DXFs. I use A9Converter to convert to R12. Then load in LazyCAM. As long as I don't move the start point, I get the most simple form of G2. I was initially doing that but wanted to test with the most simple case.

                          N5 (File Name = SLogo Circle 031 on Thursday, June 03, 2010)
                          N10 (Default Mill Post)
                          N15 G91.1
                          N20 M5 M9
                          N25 M6 T3(TOOL Change .031 PCB Shell Cutter)
                          N30 G43 H3
                          N35 G0 Z0.5000
                          N40 M3 S10000
                          N45 X0.4300 Y0.2150
                          N50 Z0.1600
                          N55 G1 Z0.0400 F1.00
                          N60 G2 I-0.2150 J0.0000 F2.00
                          N65 G0 Z0.1600
                          N70 G1 Z0.0200 F1.00
                          N75 G2 I-0.2150 J0.0000 F2.00
                          N80 G0 Z0.1600
                          N85 G1 Z0.0000 F1.00
                          N90 G2 I-0.2150 J0.0000 F2.00
                          N95 G0 Z0.5000
                          N100 M5
                          N105 M30

                          I must admit, there are still things in this file I don't understand. Lines N45 and N50 have XYZ coords but no opcode? Perhaps it's an implied G0 as it does indeed go there. In looking over this I'm realizing that my simplifications have resulted in a situation slightly different from my initial, better circles. Yes, they probably have very slight flat spots, but no dip at the start/stop point. My initial circle pattern had the origin set in the middle of the circle. I might have changed the start point too. I'm going to try one like that today and one with the start point at 45 degrees as Lester suggested.

                          I might have to put this all aside to cut a set of MOP block inlays today. My first try at gluing shell blanks down and aligning patterns to fit in the right places. And I still have to hold the shopvac hose myself because I haven't finished my headstock bracket. Well, the bracket is there but I'm not sure bolting a crevice tool to the underside is the right idea. I'd rather find a way to neck it down to a flexible hose that won't be such a big deal if I bump it into thicker material, a vise, clamps, etc.

                          Thanks,
                          ...Athena

                          --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, Lester Caine <lester@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Lester Caine wrote:
                          > > I would be looking at the gCode as that looks like a 'scroll in' type 'nick'
                          > > rather than simple backlash.
                          >
                          > Just a follow up ... move the start point to a 45deg position and see what happens.
                          > I had a quick scan down your posts, but I don't think you have said what you are
                          > using to create gCode?
                          >
                          > --
                          > Lester Caine - G8HFL
                          > -----------------------------
                          > Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
                          > L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
                          > EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
                          > Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk//
                          > Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php
                          >
                        • Jeff Demand
                          Athena, If you can get even a small carbide bit to flex enough to see you are capable of greater mayhem than me. Normally when I try it is a matter of finding
                          Message 12 of 27 , Jun 4, 2010
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                            Athena,

                            If you can get even a small carbide bit to flex enough to see you are
                            capable of greater mayhem than me. Normally when I try it is a matter of
                            finding the end of the tool inbeded in a wall :-)

                            I don't often run 2D cam programs but my limited understanding is that 90
                            degree quadrant changes are not fun with G2 or G3 moves. I am also really
                            rather cynical about software backlash corrections. Good for the add copy
                            selling the software, but not really of much use in the real world.
                            Immigrate, eliminate as much mechanical backlash as possible, or re think
                            your milling strategies. A one line G2 is more elagent than 100 G1 moves
                            but what you walk away with is all that counts.

                            jeffD


                            *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

                            On 6/4/2010 at 1:28 AM Athena wrote:

                            >I'm just slightly concerned about the bit flexing because for shell I'm
                            >using these PCB routers with a wicked long depth of cut. I did a test
                            >prior to my xylotex blowing up and got similar results with a short end
                            >mill (not on shell). That's on my list of things to try next.
                            >
                            >I'm cutting in 0.020" passes, so I didn't do a finishing pass. The cut
                            >quality otherwise is great. I did mistakenly cut one all the way through
                            >(0.060") in one pass and the finish on the edges was not as nice.
                            >
                            >I never like cutting circles by hand. Unfortunately the Taig doesn't
                            >either. ;-> A slight flat spot really won't be noticeable... but the dip
                            >at the start/end point is a bummer.
                            >
                            >Thanks,
                            >...Athena
                            >
                            >--- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "greg.mcfadden" <greg.mcfadden@...>
                            >wrote:
                            >>
                            >> Are you making a finishing pass? The difference in diameter can easily
                            >be
                            >> caused by the flex of the bit while cutting.
                            >>
                            >> That being said, I have not had great luck with backlash
                            compensation....
                            >> acceptable luck, but not great. I tend to avoid it if possible
                            >(especially
                            >> in stainless steels)
                            >>
                            >> second
                            >>
                            >> On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 4:26 PM, Athena <ath3na@...> wrote:
                            >>
                            >> >
                            >> >
                            >> > Ok, the new Geckodrives totally rock. A lot of my problems
                            disappeared.
                            >> > More than I could ever have hoped for. However, my circles are still
                            >not
                            >> > being all they can be. :-(
                            >> >
                            >> > I tried to measure my backlash. The holder for the dial indicator is a
                            >bit
                            >> > funky. The indicator is hard to zero sometimes. It's like I'm chasing
                            >it.
                            >> > It's not mine - it came with the mill. The indicator itself is an old
                            >> > Mitutoyo - not Harbor Freight.
                            >> >
                            >> > I measured 0.003" on both X & Y. I added that to the backlash
                            >correction
                            >> > and it didn't seem to help. Upping it to 0.006" clearly made things
                            >worse.
                            >> > And it was weird to watch - there was a visible hitch in the motor
                            >movement
                            >> > at the appropriate points. Without it, the motion looks nice and
                            >smooth to
                            >> > the naked eye, but then my naked eyes aren't good for much ;-> Safety
                            >> > glasses don't help. Here are some photos:
                            >> >
                            >> >
                            >http://home.comcast.net/~ath3na/TaigCircles2a.jpg<http://home.comcast.net/%
                            7Eath3na/TaigCircles2a.jpg>
                            >> >
                            >http://home.comcast.net/~ath3na/TaigCircles2b.jpg<http://home.comcast.net/%
                            7Eath3na/TaigCircles2b.jpg>
                            >> >
                            >> > 2a shows a circle with 0.006" backlash correction on the right. The
                            >two on
                            >> > the left are without it. The top left one was cut CW, the bottom CCW.
                            >The
                            >> > one in the center is piece of circular scrap superglued down because
                            >someone
                            >> > was likely to fault my use of doublesided tape. ;-> It was cut CW.
                            >> >
                            >> > Yeah, it's hard to see the problems on the ones on the left, so I took
                            >> > another shot (2b). Not that much better, but you can see the start/end
                            >point
                            >> > notches on the right. Sorry I don't have a closeup lens.
                            >> >
                            >> > Size-wise, they should be 0.400" in diameter. The CW is 0.400 - 0.405,
                            >CCW
                            >> > one is 0.391 to 0.397.
                            >> >
                            >> > Also, I'm not pushing things... I'm cutting at 2 IPM with 0.020"
                            >passes.
                            >> >
                            >> > Any ideas?
                            >> >
                            >> > Thanks,
                            >> > ...Athena
                            >> >
                            >> >
                            >> >
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >>
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >------------------------------------
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                            -
                            Demand Designs
                            Analog/Digital Modelling & Goldsmithing

                            http://www.gmavt.net/~jdemand
                            jdemand@...
                            -
                          • Athena
                            Well Jeff, apparently mayhem is my middle name because... PROBLEM SOLVED! Sort of... good enough for now anyway. It WAS bit deflection! I tried a regular 2
                            Message 13 of 27 , Jun 4, 2010
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                              Well Jeff, apparently mayhem is my middle name because... PROBLEM SOLVED! Sort of... good enough for now anyway. It WAS bit deflection! I tried a regular 2 flute carbide .031" end mill that was almost a stubby. Even Miss Mayhem can't cause that to deflect. ;->

                              Believe it or not, prior to the big Xylo bang, I DID test a 1/16th end mill with a normal DOC (I didn't get the stubby I used today until later). I still had problems in soft plastic. Perhaps it was indeed due to the drivers being on their way out.

                              These PCB router bits have a surprisingly long DOC. When I bought them the specs said "0.25" flute". I assumed that was the depth of cut. That was already longer than anything I had at that diameter. What I got was wicked long. I don't have one here, but it's more like 0.5" DOC. Scary long for something .031" in diameter. But the cut quality was lovely and they were a bit cheaper than my usual end mills. They did look just like the pic British Steve posted a while back, so I assumed they were correct. He had good luck with them. Apparently Miss Mayhem needs something beefier even at 2 IPM/0.020" passes. ;->

                              Knowing how brittle carbide is, I was surprised I didn't break it. Even moreso because somehow LazyCAM zeroed my rapid height the first time. My bad for glancing through the code early this morning and not catching that. Luckily I was using .040" scrap shell. It plunged down to zero (the spoilboard) and cut out to the edge of the circle at 37.5 IPM...LOL. Other than ruining the test because it cut out the very area I need to see, nothing was harmed. I'll bet I got some bit deflection there. Too bad it was only moving in one axis...lol. I'd have liked to see how much it would've deflected doing an arc. Not enough to repeat that stunt though. ;->

                              Are the circles perfect? No. Under magnification they are still a little lumpy. The one I'm cutting now should be 0.390" and what I cut measures from 0.389 to 0.394". I measured 0.003" backlash and I probably have that, at least. Correction is off for now. To other naked eyes the circles are fine. They are as good or better than I could cut by hand. I'll revisit the "lumpiness" a bit later. Right now I need to work on other things.

                              Huge thanks to all!
                              ...Athena


                              --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Demand" <jdemand@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Athena,
                              >
                              > If you can get even a small carbide bit to flex enough to see you are
                              > capable of greater mayhem than me. Normally when I try it is a matter of
                              > finding the end of the tool inbeded in a wall :-)
                              >
                              > I don't often run 2D cam programs but my limited understanding is that 90
                              > degree quadrant changes are not fun with G2 or G3 moves. I am also really
                              > rather cynical about software backlash corrections. Good for the add copy
                              > selling the software, but not really of much use in the real world.
                              > Immigrate, eliminate as much mechanical backlash as possible, or re think
                              > your milling strategies. A one line G2 is more elagent than 100 G1 moves
                              > but what you walk away with is all that counts.
                              >
                              > jeffD
                              >
                              >
                              > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
                              >
                            • Steve Blackmore
                              ... Mmmhhhh - have a look at this I done today. http://imagebin.ca/view/eOEpFA.html F5 style Mandolin head plate in that nasty hard vulcanised fibreboard that
                              Message 14 of 27 , Jun 4, 2010
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                                On Fri, 04 Jun 2010 18:35:18 -0000, you wrote:

                                >Well Jeff, apparently mayhem is my middle name because... PROBLEM SOLVED! Sort of... good enough for now anyway. It WAS bit deflection! I tried a regular 2 flute carbide .031" end mill that was almost a stubby. Even Miss Mayhem can't cause that to deflect. ;->
                                >
                                >Believe it or not, prior to the big Xylo bang, I DID test a 1/16th end mill with a normal DOC (I didn't get the stubby I used today until later). I still had problems in soft plastic. Perhaps it was indeed due to the drivers being on their way out.
                                >
                                >These PCB router bits have a surprisingly long DOC. When I bought them the specs said "0.25" flute". I assumed that was the depth of cut. That was already longer than anything I had at that diameter. What I got was wicked long. I don't have one here, but it's more like 0.5" DOC. Scary long for something .031" in diameter. But the cut quality was lovely and they were a bit cheaper than my usual end mills. They did look just like the pic British Steve posted a while back, so I assumed they were correct. He had good luck with them. Apparently Miss Mayhem needs something beefier even at 2 IPM/0.020" passes. ;->
                                >
                                >Knowing how brittle carbide is, I was surprised I didn't break it. Even moreso because somehow LazyCAM zeroed my rapid height the first time. My bad for glancing through the code early this morning and not catching that. Luckily I was using .040" scrap shell. It plunged down to zero (the spoilboard) and cut out to the edge of the circle at 37.5 IPM...LOL. Other than ruining the test because it cut out the very area I need to see, nothing was harmed. I'll bet I got some bit deflection there. Too bad it was only moving in one axis...lol. I'd have liked to see how much it would've deflected doing an arc. Not enough to repeat that stunt though. ;->
                                >
                                >Are the circles perfect? No. Under magnification they are still a little lumpy. The one I'm cutting now should be 0.390" and what I cut measures from 0.389 to 0.394". I measured 0.003" backlash and I probably have that, at least. Correction is off for now. To other naked eyes the circles are fine. They are as good or better than I could cut by hand. I'll revisit the "lumpiness" a bit later. Right now I need to work on other things.
                                >
                                >Huge thanks to all!

                                Mmmhhhh - have a look at this I done today.

                                http://imagebin.ca/view/eOEpFA.html

                                F5 style Mandolin head plate in that nasty hard vulcanised fibreboard
                                that Gibson use.

                                No cleanup other than blow off dust then took photo.

                                All cut with one of the 0.050 inch PCB router bits. Spindle speed was
                                20000 rpm and it was cut at 20 inches per minute in 30 thou deep passes.
                                Inlay pockets are 60 thou deep, through holes and profile passes down to
                                90 thou.

                                Steve Blackmore
                                --
                              • Athena
                                Sweet! I didn t get any .050 bits. Just the .031 . The DOC looks almost longer than the ones in your photo, but then it might be because those are a larger
                                Message 15 of 27 , Jun 4, 2010
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                                  Sweet! I didn't get any .050" bits. Just the .031". The DOC looks almost longer than the ones in your photo, but then it might be because those are a larger diameter. Oh well, I'm used to it. Some things that work for others simply don't work for me.

                                  20 IPM... wow. I haven't tested cutting speed above 10 IPM yet and only in wood. But then my rapid speed wasn't much over 10 IPM for some axes until recently.

                                  ...Athena

                                  --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, Steve Blackmore <steve@...> wrote:
                                  > Mmmhhhh - have a look at this I done today.
                                  >
                                  > http://imagebin.ca/view/eOEpFA.html
                                  >
                                  > F5 style Mandolin head plate in that nasty hard vulcanised fibreboard
                                  > that Gibson use.
                                  >
                                  > No cleanup other than blow off dust then took photo.
                                  >
                                  > All cut with one of the 0.050 inch PCB router bits. Spindle speed was
                                  > 20000 rpm and it was cut at 20 inches per minute in 30 thou deep passes.
                                  > Inlay pockets are 60 thou deep, through holes and profile passes down to
                                  > 90 thou.
                                  >
                                  > Steve Blackmore
                                • Jeff Demand
                                  Athena, Drop over for tea or a cold beer, ya get to figure the timing and year at 10- 20 IPM to vermont from ca. ... - Demand Designs Analog/Digital Modelling
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Jun 4, 2010
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                                    Athena,

                                    Drop over for tea or a cold beer, ya get to figure the timing and year at
                                    10- 20 IPM to vermont from ca.

                                    *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
                                    >20 IPM... wow. I haven't tested cutting speed above 10 IPM yet and only
                                    >in wood. But then my rapid speed wasn't much over 10 IPM for some axes
                                    >until recently.
                                    >
                                    >...Athena
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >------------------------------------
                                    >
                                    >

                                    -
                                    Demand Designs
                                    Analog/Digital Modelling & Goldsmithing

                                    http://www.gmavt.net/~jdemand
                                    jdemand@...
                                    -
                                  • Will Schmit
                                    Stop by Albuquerque -- Its gonna be 103 degrees on Sunday (at 5000 ft above sea level) God help those people (and other creatures in Carlsbad)
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Jun 4, 2010
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                                      Stop by Albuquerque -- Its gonna be 103 degrees on Sunday (at 5000 ft above sea level)
                                      God help those people (and other creatures in Carlsbad)





                                      ________________________________
                                      From: Jeff Demand <jdemand@...>
                                      To: taigtools@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Fri, June 4, 2010 8:10:23 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [taigtools] Re: Baby's got backlash?


                                      Athena,

                                      Drop over for tea or a cold beer, ya get to figure the timing and year at
                                      10- 20 IPM to vermont from ca.

                                      *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
                                      >20 IPM... wow. I haven't tested cutting speed above 10 IPM yet and only
                                      >in wood. But then my rapid speed wasn't much over 10 IPM for some axes
                                      >until recently.
                                      >
                                      >...Athena
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >------------------------------------
                                      >
                                      >

                                      -
                                      Demand Designs
                                      Analog/Digital Modelling & Goldsmithing

                                      http://www.gmavt.net/~jdemand
                                      jdemand@...
                                      -




                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Steve Blackmore
                                      ... May be some bit deflection, you need to turn small diameter tools fast, ramp in and ramp out helps too, but backlash compensation can also cause steps in
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Jun 5, 2010
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        On Fri, 04 Jun 2010 18:35:18 -0000, you wrote:

                                        >Well Jeff, apparently mayhem is my middle name because... PROBLEM SOLVED! Sort of... good enough for now anyway. It WAS bit deflection! I tried a regular 2 flute carbide .031" end mill that was almost a stubby. Even Miss Mayhem can't cause that to deflect. ;->

                                        >Believe it or not, prior to the big Xylo bang, I DID test a 1/16th end mill with a normal DOC (I didn't get the stubby I used today until later). I still had problems in soft plastic. Perhaps it was indeed due to the drivers being on their way out.
                                        >
                                        >These PCB router bits have a surprisingly long DOC. When I bought them the specs said "0.25" flute". I assumed that was the depth of cut. That was already longer than anything I had at that diameter. What I got was wicked long. I don't have one here, but it's more like 0.5" DOC. Scary long for something .031" in diameter. But the cut quality was lovely and they were a bit cheaper than my usual end mills. They did look just like the pic British Steve posted a while back, so I assumed they were correct. He had good luck with them. Apparently Miss Mayhem needs something beefier even at 2 IPM/0.020" passes. ;->

                                        May be some bit deflection, you need to turn small diameter tools fast,
                                        ramp in and ramp out helps too, but backlash compensation can also cause
                                        steps in the work. The compensation is applied at the end of the move,
                                        that combined with tool deflection = a step.

                                        >Are the circles perfect? No. Under magnification they are still a little lumpy. The one I'm cutting now should be 0.390" and what I cut measures from 0.389 to 0.394". I measured 0.003" backlash and I probably have that, at least. Correction is off for now. To other naked eyes the circles are fine. They are as good or better than I could cut by hand. I'll revisit the "lumpiness" a bit later. Right now I need to work on other things.

                                        ONLY proper fix for backlash is mechanical, software compensation is a
                                        fudge, at best.

                                        Make your gibs are adjusted properly too, any slackness there will wreck
                                        accuracy ;)

                                        Steve Blackmore
                                        --
                                      • Athena
                                        It would be cool to pick your brain on Taiglish things in person but it s an awful long drive. Now what was I supposed to do to launch my ass 8 miles high?
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Jun 5, 2010
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                                          It would be cool to pick your brain on Taiglish things in person but it's an awful long drive. Now what was I supposed to do to launch my ass 8 miles high? ;-> Something about licking my fuse holder? ;-> I think that would just end up with me as a relief carving on the thickness sander.

                                          Besides, I can't leave my Taig for more than a day. I woke up this morning feeling so happy that I'm back to having a reasonably functional machine and all the possibilities wide open. I'm finally seriously looking at how to move it into my trailer of mayhem.

                                          Speaking of mayhem, the shop helper cleaned the shopvac on the Taig and it now sucks dust without being 0.25" from the end mill. However, leave it to me... I hooked the hose into the output port. The first time I've done thise with a house vac neckdown and a crevice tool. It launched the crevice tool like a projectile across the shop into a woodpile...LOL. Well now I know how to defend myself if anyone breaks into the shop while I'm there alone. ;->

                                          ...Athena


                                          --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Demand" <jdemand@...> wrote:

                                          > Drop over for tea or a cold beer, ya get to figure the timing and year at
                                          > 10- 20 IPM to vermont from ca.
                                          >
                                          > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
                                          > >20 IPM... wow. I haven't tested cutting speed above 10 IPM yet and only
                                          > >in wood. But then my rapid speed wasn't much over 10 IPM for some axes
                                          > >until recently.
                                          > >
                                          > >...Athena
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >------------------------------------
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          > -
                                          > Demand Designs
                                          > Analog/Digital Modelling & Goldsmithing
                                          >
                                          > http://www.gmavt.net/~jdemand
                                          > jdemand@...
                                          > -
                                          >
                                        • Athena
                                          Wow, it s nice to know there s someplace hotter than Redding. Or hotter sooner. We re only supposed to be 88 (which will end up being 98 - they re always 10
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Jun 5, 2010
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                                            Wow, it's nice to know there's someplace hotter than Redding. Or hotter sooner. We're only supposed to be 88 (which will end up being 98 - they're always 10 degrees low) because it'll be overcast. We need full sun to go nuclear here. It's been unseasonably cool here the past few weeks (thankfully).

                                            ...Athena

                                            --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, Will Schmit <anchornm@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Stop by Albuquerque -- Its gonna be 103 degrees on Sunday (at 5000 ft above sea level)
                                            > God help those people (and other creatures in Carlsbad)
                                          • Mike Nicewonger
                                            It s supposed to be 100F here in Norman, Ok today. Joy. ... -- Mike N Heretic, Lunatic, Fanatic.
                                            Message 21 of 27 , Jun 5, 2010
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                                              It's supposed to be 100F here in Norman, Ok today.

                                              Joy.

                                              On Jun 5, 2010, at 10:52 AM, Athena wrote:

                                              > Wow, it's nice to know there's someplace hotter than Redding. Or
                                              > hotter sooner. We're only supposed to be 88 (which will end up
                                              > being 98 - they're always 10 degrees low) because it'll be
                                              > overcast. We need full sun to go nuclear here. It's been
                                              > unseasonably cool here the past few weeks (thankfully).
                                              >
                                              > ...Athena
                                              >
                                              > --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, Will Schmit <anchornm@...> wrote:
                                              >>
                                              >> Stop by Albuquerque -- Its gonna be 103 degrees on Sunday (at 5000
                                              >> ft above sea level)
                                              >> God help those people (and other creatures in Carlsbad)

                                              --
                                              Mike N

                                              Heretic, Lunatic, Fanatic.
                                            • Athena
                                              ... Well I m doing 10k rpm. The fastest I can with the stock machine. Not bad for a milling machine. I m about to try some detail tests soon... venture into
                                              Message 22 of 27 , Jun 5, 2010
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                                                --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, Steve Blackmore <steve@...> wrote:

                                                > May be some bit deflection, you need to turn small diameter tools
                                                >fast,

                                                Well I'm doing 10k rpm. The fastest I can with the stock machine. Not bad for a milling machine. I'm about to try some detail tests soon... venture into the sub-.031" land. I need to see where my limits are so I don't design things I can't cut.

                                                >ramp in and ramp out helps too, but backlash compensation can
                                                >also cause steps in the work. The compensation is applied at the end
                                                >of the move, that combined with tool deflection = a step.

                                                I turned that on once and turned it off (and restarted) after the first cut.

                                                > ONLY proper fix for backlash is mechanical, software compensation is > a fudge, at best.
                                                >
                                                > Make your gibs are adjusted properly too, any slackness there will
                                                > wreck accuracy ;)

                                                I only messed with the Z and that was barking up the wrong tree it seems. The nasty sound and stalling disappeared with the G540. In retrospect I should've suspected mid-band resonance. I just didn't realize how small my band was. ;->

                                                I haven't delved into the X and Y gibs yet.

                                                Thanks,
                                                ...Athena
                                              • Steve Blackmore
                                                ... Adjust them. Oil the ways, jog around then power off. Grab the table and try and twist it. Watch the gap in the ways carefully, you ll see oil squeezing
                                                Message 23 of 27 , Jun 5, 2010
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  On Sat, 05 Jun 2010 16:27:01 -0000, you wrote:


                                                  >I haven't delved into the X and Y gibs yet.

                                                  Adjust them.

                                                  Oil the ways, jog around then power off. Grab the table and try and
                                                  twist it. Watch the gap in the ways carefully, you'll see oil squeezing
                                                  out of the gap - you want to get that as little as possible but still
                                                  have smooth movement.

                                                  Easiest way I found with the Taig was disconnect the plates that support
                                                  the end of the leadscrews from the end of the X and Y axis (two allen
                                                  screws on each), and rotate the plates out of the way. Then move the
                                                  axis by hand and tighten the gibs until the table moves smoothly but
                                                  snugly with as little slop as possible. Makes a hell of difference when
                                                  adjusted correctly.

                                                  Steve Blackmore
                                                  --
                                                • Lester Caine
                                                  ... If you have not ound it yet ... http://medw.co.uk/wiki/index.php?page=Micromill+Maintenance Does need some more padding out, and any suggestions for that
                                                  Message 24 of 27 , Jun 5, 2010
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    Steve Blackmore wrote:
                                                    >> I haven't delved into the X and Y gibs yet.
                                                    > Adjust them.
                                                    >
                                                    > Oil the ways, jog around then power off. Grab the table and try and
                                                    > twist it. Watch the gap in the ways carefully, you'll see oil squeezing
                                                    > out of the gap - you want to get that as little as possible but still
                                                    > have smooth movement.
                                                    >
                                                    > Easiest way I found with the Taig was disconnect the plates that support
                                                    > the end of the leadscrews from the end of the X and Y axis (two allen
                                                    > screws on each), and rotate the plates out of the way. Then move the
                                                    > axis by hand and tighten the gibs until the table moves smoothly but
                                                    > snugly with as little slop as possible. Makes a hell of difference when
                                                    > adjusted correctly.

                                                    If you have not ound it yet ...
                                                    http://medw.co.uk/wiki/index.php?page=Micromill+Maintenance
                                                    Does need some more padding out, and any suggestions for that are welcome!

                                                    --
                                                    Lester Caine - G8HFL
                                                    -----------------------------
                                                    Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
                                                    L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
                                                    EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
                                                    Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk//
                                                    Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php
                                                  • Jeff Demand
                                                    Will, Come and vist VT. 90 degrees is hot, 0 degrees (F) about as cold as it gets. Summer only seems to last a month. But when it isn t raining the humidity
                                                    Message 25 of 27 , Jun 7, 2010
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      Will,

                                                      Come and vist VT. 90 degrees is hot, 0 degrees (F) about as cold as it
                                                      gets. Summer only seems to last a month. But when it isn't raining the
                                                      humidity feels like 80. Mid winter is ineresting, a couple of 18" snow
                                                      falls on adjacent days are really fun. Good I hear for skiing if you can
                                                      find your car or even the driveway :-)

                                                      jeffD



                                                      *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

                                                      On 6/4/2010 at 7:30 PM Will Schmit wrote:

                                                      >Stop by Albuquerque -- Its gonna be 103 degrees on Sunday (at 5000 ft
                                                      >above sea level)
                                                      >God help those people (and other creatures in Carlsbad)
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >________________________________
                                                      >From: Jeff Demand <jdemand@...>
                                                      >To: taigtools@yahoogroups.com
                                                      >Sent: Fri, June 4, 2010 8:10:23 PM
                                                      >Subject: Re: [taigtools] Re: Baby's got backlash?
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >Athena,
                                                      >
                                                      >Drop over for tea or a cold beer, ya get to figure the timing and year at
                                                      >10- 20 IPM to vermont from ca.
                                                      >
                                                      >*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
                                                      >>20 IPM... wow. I haven't tested cutting speed above 10 IPM yet and only
                                                      >>in wood. But then my rapid speed wasn't much over 10 IPM for some axes
                                                      >>until recently.
                                                      >>
                                                      >>...Athena
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >>------------------------------------
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >
                                                      >-
                                                      >Demand Designs
                                                      >Analog/Digital Modelling & Goldsmithing
                                                      >
                                                      >http://www.gmavt.net/~jdemand
                                                      >jdemand@...
                                                      >-
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >------------------------------------
                                                      >
                                                      >To Post a message, send it to:
                                                      >taigtools@yahoogroups.com
                                                      >
                                                      >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                                                      >taigtools-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                      >
                                                      >Let the chips fly!
                                                      >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >No virus found in this incoming message.
                                                      >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                                      >Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2918 - Release Date: 06/04/10
                                                      18:25:00


                                                      -
                                                      Demand Designs
                                                      Analog/Digital Modelling & Goldsmithing

                                                      http://www.gmavt.net/~jdemand
                                                      jdemand@...
                                                      -
                                                    • Will Schmit
                                                      Vermont is awesome. Albuquerque is just about right. We only have a few days a year over 100 degrees. In the shade with a nice breeze, it is quite pleasant.
                                                      Message 26 of 27 , Jun 7, 2010
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        Vermont is awesome.
                                                        Albuquerque is just about right. We only have a few days a year over 100 degrees. In the shade with a nice breeze, it is quite pleasant. Not like Chicago -- where it kills people.

                                                        Since we are at 5000 ft, the sun in the winter actually warms you up. We have dozens of "world-class" ski hills in New Mexico and Southern Colorado. I don't ski. But, I can see why people like it.

                                                        Winter or summer, we have a 40 degree temperature swing through-out the day -- so I open the windows at night -- let the house cool down, then seal it up. stays nice until mid afternoon. I've traveled quite a bit, and I think Central NM is pretty nice.

                                                        Now, if I could find a cushy little project milling jewelry in Taxco, Guerrero or in the hills above Tequila, Jalisco ---- I would consider moving.





                                                        ________________________________
                                                        From: Jeff Demand <jdemand@...>
                                                        To: taigtools@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Sent: Mon, June 7, 2010 5:55:34 PM
                                                        Subject: Re: [taigtools] Re: Baby's got backlash?


                                                        Will,

                                                        Come and vist VT. 90 degrees is hot, 0 degrees (F) about as cold as it
                                                        gets. Summer only seems to last a month. But when it isn't raining the
                                                        humidity feels like 80. Mid winter is ineresting, a couple of 18" snow
                                                        falls on adjacent days are really fun. Good I hear for skiing if you can
                                                        find your car or even the driveway :-)

                                                        jeffD

                                                        *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

                                                        On 6/4/2010 at 7:30 PM Will Schmit wrote:

                                                        >Stop by Albuquerque -- Its gonna be 103 degrees on Sunday (at 5000 ft
                                                        >above sea level)
                                                        >God help those people (and other creatures in Carlsbad)
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >________________________________
                                                        >From: Jeff Demand <jdemand@...>
                                                        >To: taigtools@yahoogroups.com
                                                        >Sent: Fri, June 4, 2010 8:10:23 PM
                                                        >Subject: Re: [taigtools] Re: Baby's got backlash?
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >Athena,
                                                        >
                                                        >Drop over for tea or a cold beer, ya get to figure the timing and year at
                                                        >10- 20 IPM to vermont from ca.
                                                        >
                                                        >*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
                                                        >>20 IPM... wow. I haven't tested cutting speed above 10 IPM yet and only
                                                        >>in wood. But then my rapid speed wasn't much over 10 IPM for some axes
                                                        >>until recently.
                                                        >>
                                                        >>...Athena
                                                        >>
                                                        >>
                                                        >>
                                                        >>
                                                        >>
                                                        >>
                                                        >>------------------------------------
                                                        >>
                                                        >>
                                                        >
                                                        >-
                                                        >Demand Designs
                                                        >Analog/Digital Modelling & Goldsmithing
                                                        >
                                                        >http://www.gmavt.net/~jdemand
                                                        >jdemand@...
                                                        >-
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >------------------------------------
                                                        >
                                                        >To Post a message, send it to:
                                                        >taigtools@yahoogroups.com
                                                        >
                                                        >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                                                        >taigtools-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                        >
                                                        >Let the chips fly!
                                                        >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >No virus found in this incoming message.
                                                        >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                                        >Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2918 - Release Date: 06/04/10
                                                        18:25:00

                                                        -
                                                        Demand Designs
                                                        Analog/Digital Modelling & Goldsmithing

                                                        http://www.gmavt.net/~jdemand
                                                        jdemand@...
                                                        -




                                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      • larrys@teamlarry.com
                                                        ...long as you don t move too far away from the fruit of the gods. One thing VT won t have... ... -ls-
                                                        Message 27 of 27 , Jun 7, 2010
                                                        • 0 Attachment
                                                          ...long as you don't move too far away from the fruit of
                                                          the gods. One thing VT won't have...
                                                          :-)
                                                          -ls-


                                                          Will Schmit <anchornm@...> wrote:
                                                          > Vermont is awesome.
                                                          > Albuquerque is just about right. We only have a few days a year over
                                                          > 100 degrees. In the shade with a nice breeze, it is quite pleasant.
                                                          > Not like Chicago -- where it kills people.
                                                          >
                                                          > Since we are at 5000 ft, the sun in the winter actually warms you up.
                                                          > We have dozens of "world-class" ski hills in New Mexico and Southern
                                                          > Colorado. I don't ski. But, I can see why people like it.
                                                          >
                                                          > Winter or summer, we have a 40 degree temperature swing through-out
                                                          > the day -- so I open the windows at night -- let the house cool down,
                                                          > then seal it up. stays nice until mid afternoon. I've traveled quite
                                                          > a bit, and I think Central NM is pretty nice.
                                                          >
                                                          > Now, if I could find a cushy little project milling jewelry in Taxco,
                                                          > Guerrero or in the hills above Tequila, Jalisco ---- I would consider
                                                          > moving.
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > ________________________________
                                                          > From: Jeff Demand <jdemand@...>
                                                          > To: taigtools@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > Sent: Mon, June 7, 2010 5:55:34 PM
                                                          > Subject: Re: [taigtools] Re: Baby's got backlash?
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > Will,
                                                          >
                                                          > Come and vist VT. 90 degrees is hot, 0 degrees (F) about as cold as it
                                                          > gets. Summer only seems to last a month. But when it isn't raining the
                                                          > humidity feels like 80. Mid winter is ineresting, a couple of 18" snow
                                                          > falls on adjacent days are really fun. Good I hear for skiing if you
                                                          > can
                                                          > find your car or even the driveway :-)
                                                          >
                                                          > jeffD
                                                          >
                                                          > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
                                                          >
                                                          > On 6/4/2010 at 7:30 PM Will Schmit wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          > >Stop by Albuquerque -- Its gonna be 103 degrees on Sunday (at 5000 ft
                                                          > >above sea level)
                                                          > >God help those people (and other creatures in Carlsbad)
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >________________________________
                                                          > >From: Jeff Demand <jdemand@...>
                                                          > >To: taigtools@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > >Sent: Fri, June 4, 2010 8:10:23 PM
                                                          > >Subject: Re: [taigtools] Re: Baby's got backlash?
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >Athena,
                                                          > >
                                                          > >Drop over for tea or a cold beer, ya get to figure the timing and
                                                          > year at
                                                          > >10- 20 IPM to vermont from ca.
                                                          > >
                                                          > >*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
                                                          > >>20 IPM... wow. I haven't tested cutting speed above 10 IPM yet and
                                                          > only
                                                          > >>in wood. But then my rapid speed wasn't much over 10 IPM for some
                                                          > axes
                                                          > >>until recently.
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>...Athena
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>------------------------------------
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >
                                                          > >-
                                                          > >Demand Designs
                                                          > >Analog/Digital Modelling & Goldsmithing
                                                          > >
                                                          > >http://www.gmavt.net/~jdemand
                                                          > >jdemand@...
                                                          > >-
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >------------------------------------
                                                          > >
                                                          > >To Post a message, send it to:
                                                          > >taigtools@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > >
                                                          > >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                                                          > >taigtools-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > >
                                                          > >Let the chips fly!
                                                          > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >No virus found in this incoming message.
                                                          > >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                                          > >Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2918 - Release Date:
                                                          > 06/04/10
                                                          > 18:25:00
                                                          >
                                                          > -
                                                          > Demand Designs
                                                          > Analog/Digital Modelling & Goldsmithing
                                                          >
                                                          > http://www.gmavt.net/~jdemand
                                                          > jdemand@...
                                                          > -
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > ------------------------------------
                                                          >
                                                          > To Post a message, send it to:
                                                          > taigtools@yahoogroups.com
                                                          >
                                                          > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                                                          > taigtools-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                          >
                                                          > Let the chips fly!
                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
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