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Re: [taigtools] Recommend a production CNC shop in Vancouver, Canada?

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  • Will Schmit
    I don t have any idea of what you are making, but in the past I have saved a bundle by carefully analysing the part and looking for the system best suited for
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 1, 2009
      I don't have any idea of what you are making, but in the past I have saved a bundle by carefully analysing the part and looking for the system best suited for (and the and the order of production)the job at hand.

      Milling isn't always the answer.

      Case in point - I needed to make a part for computer security. Up to this point, we had made "sheet metal stampings". This part was thicker, and had a bend that would shear off easily (due to metal fatigue at the bend). We had to make the part thicker "again". This change put the gauge over the thickness that our stamping house could do.

      We redesigned the part to be made of two pieces of hot rolled steel (and a custom milled gusset). We had all the steel waterjet cut (drilled holes, fixtures and tabs). We had to pay 3 set-up fees:
      1- the flat cuts,
      2- the 1"thick steel drilled for the gusset holes and sliced to 1" bars
      3- the same bars tipped to 45 degrees and "ripped".
      The waterjet house didn't charge us a set-up fee to turn the gussets and drill them the other direction (same hole position, but the material was set-up 1/2" away from its original location).

      We had to buy a tapping head, and a cold saw, a couple of countersinks, and a box of grade 8 bolts, but we had 100 parts in 3 weeks (which included a trip to El Paso and a week at the powdercoater).

      Best part -- we paid half what it would have cost if we had just done it the way we had it designed.

      You may be able to "pre-form" all the parts in another way, and just finish em up at home.


      ________________________________
      From: southofhadrianswall <southofhadrianswall@...>
      To: taigtools@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 5:32:30 PM
      Subject: [taigtools] Recommend a production CNC shop in Vancouver, Canada?


      New Years Greetings to All!

      Can anyone recommend a good production CNC machine shop in the
      Vancouver, Canada area?

      I'm looking for a local outfit to produce a small aluminum part in a
      run of 100 or more. I can handle machining the prototype myself, but
      not a production run.

      Regards,
      Andrew



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • southofhadrianswall
      Hi Will, Thank you for your detailed and helpful reply. You raise a very good point about designing for efficient production. It s a concern I ve attempted to
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 1, 2009
        Hi Will,

        Thank you for your detailed and helpful reply.

        You raise a very good point about designing for efficient production.
        It's a concern I've attempted to address with alternative designs
        intended to suit processes other than CNC milling. However, the part
        in question requires a combination of shaping, slotting, and tapping
        of holes that make at least some CNC milling inevitable as far as I
        can see. Perhaps I'm mistaken in that conclusion. With any luck, I'll
        be able to find an outfit that can give an opinion on the issue.

        Although I've spent a good portion of my professional life to date
        working as a furniture designer and cabinetmaker, I'm strictly a hobby
        machinist. Among the many unknowns for me in this project is whether
        production costs will allow the venture to be economically viable. My
        costing so far consists of pricing from emachineshop.com, whose cost
        does indicate some potential viability. Working with a local shop
        seems preferable for a number of reasons, not least of which is a more
        direct involvement.

        And the current economic downturn finds me with time on my hands to
        pursue an interest which might pay for itself.

        Regards,
        Andrew



        --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, Will Schmit <anchornm@...> wrote:
        >
        > I don't have any idea of what you are making, but in the past I have
        saved a bundle by carefully analysing the part and looking for the
        system best suited for (and the and the order of production)the job at
        hand.
        >
        > Milling isn't always the answer.
        >
        > Case in point - I needed to make a part for computer security. Up
        to this point, we had made "sheet metal stampings". This part was
        thicker, and had a bend that would shear off easily (due to metal
        fatigue at the bend). We had to make the part thicker "again". This
        change put the gauge over the thickness that our stamping house could
        do.
        >
        > We redesigned the part to be made of two pieces of hot rolled steel
        (and a custom milled gusset). We had all the steel waterjet cut
        (drilled holes, fixtures and tabs). We had to pay 3 set-up fees:
        > 1- the flat cuts,
        > 2- the 1"thick steel drilled for the gusset holes and sliced to 1" bars
        > 3- the same bars tipped to 45 degrees and "ripped".
        > The waterjet house didn't charge us a set-up fee to turn the gussets
        and drill them the other direction (same hole position, but the
        material was set-up 1/2" away from its original location).
        >
        > We had to buy a tapping head, and a cold saw, a couple of
        countersinks, and a box of grade 8 bolts, but we had 100 parts in 3
        weeks (which included a trip to El Paso and a week at the powdercoater).
        >
        > Best part -- we paid half what it would have cost if we had just
        done it the way we had it designed.
        >
        > You may be able to "pre-form" all the parts in another way, and just
        finish em up at home.
        >
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: southofhadrianswall <southofhadrianswall@...>
        > To: taigtools@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 5:32:30 PM
        > Subject: [taigtools] Recommend a production CNC shop in Vancouver,
        Canada?
        >
        >
        > New Years Greetings to All!
        >
        > Can anyone recommend a good production CNC machine shop in the
        > Vancouver, Canada area?
        >
        > I'm looking for a local outfit to produce a small aluminum part in a
        > run of 100 or more. I can handle machining the prototype myself, but
        > not a production run.
        >
        > Regards,
        > Andrew
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Will Schmit
        Good luck with it Andrew. Good luck also with the weather you guys are having. I know what you are saying about using local help. Unfortunately, here in
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 2, 2009
          Good luck with it Andrew.
          Good luck also with the weather you guys are having.

          I know what you are saying about using local help.
          Unfortunately, here in Albuquerque, we are forced to compete for the attention of the machine shops.  We have dozens of top secret federal research facilities, two national labs and dozens of high tech manufacturers that are willing to pay 4 times what they should for machine work, powder coating and plating.  El Paso / Juarez is 4 hours away. Up until recently, I looked forward to visiting our "Mexico theme park" for tacos, beer and whatnot -- but it is too dangerous now (that is another story).
          Will




          ________________________________
          From: southofhadrianswall <southofhadrianswall@...>
          To: taigtools@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, January 1, 2009 9:55:44 PM
          Subject: [taigtools] Re: Recommend a production CNC shop in Vancouver, Canada?


          Hi Will,

          Thank you for your detailed and helpful reply.

          You raise a very good point about designing for efficient production.
          It's a concern I've attempted to address with alternative designs
          intended to suit processes other than CNC milling. However, the part
          in question requires a combination of shaping, slotting, and tapping
          of holes that make at least some CNC milling inevitable as far as I
          can see. Perhaps I'm mistaken in that conclusion. With any luck, I'll
          be able to find an outfit that can give an opinion on the issue.

          Although I've spent a good portion of my professional life to date
          working as a furniture designer and cabinetmaker, I'm strictly a hobby
          machinist. Among the many unknowns for me in this project is whether
          production costs will allow the venture to be economically viable. My
          costing so far consists of pricing from emachineshop. com, whose cost
          does indicate some potential viability. Working with a local shop
          seems preferable for a number of reasons, not least of which is a more
          direct involvement.

          And the current economic downturn finds me with time on my hands to
          pursue an interest which might pay for itself.

          Regards,
          Andrew

          --- In taigtools@yahoogrou ps.com, Will Schmit <anchornm@.. .> wrote:
          >
          > I don't have any idea of what you are making, but in the past I have
          saved a bundle by carefully analysing the part and looking for the
          system best suited for (and the and the order of production)the job at
          hand.
          >
          > Milling isn't always the answer.
          >
          > Case in point - I needed to make a part for computer security. Up
          to this point, we had made "sheet metal stampings". This part was
          thicker, and had a bend that would shear off easily (due to metal
          fatigue at the bend). We had to make the part thicker "again". This
          change put the gauge over the thickness that our stamping house could
          do.
          >
          > We redesigned the part to be made of two pieces of hot rolled steel
          (and a custom milled gusset). We had all the steel waterjet cut
          (drilled holes, fixtures and tabs). We had to pay 3 set-up fees:
          > 1- the flat cuts,
          > 2- the 1"thick steel drilled for the gusset holes and sliced to 1" bars
          > 3- the same bars tipped to 45 degrees and "ripped".
          > The waterjet house didn't charge us a set-up fee to turn the gussets
          and drill them the other direction (same hole position, but the
          material was set-up 1/2" away from its original location).
          >
          > We had to buy a tapping head, and a cold saw, a couple of
          countersinks, and a box of grade 8 bolts, but we had 100 parts in 3
          weeks (which included a trip to El Paso and a week at the powdercoater) .
          >
          > Best part -- we paid half what it would have cost if we had just
          done it the way we had it designed.
          >
          > You may be able to "pre-form" all the parts in another way, and just
          finish em up at home.
          >
          >
          > ____________ _________ _________ __
          > From: southofhadrianswall <southofhadrianswal l@...>
          > To: taigtools@yahoogrou ps.com
          > Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 5:32:30 PM
          > Subject: [taigtools] Recommend a production CNC shop in Vancouver,
          Canada?
          >
          >
          > New Years Greetings to All!
          >
          > Can anyone recommend a good production CNC machine shop in the
          > Vancouver, Canada area?
          >
          > I'm looking for a local outfit to produce a small aluminum part in a
          > run of 100 or more. I can handle machining the prototype myself, but
          > not a production run.
          >
          > Regards,
          > Andrew
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • mbonfire2002
          More (helpful?) advice to throw into the mix. The mechanical engineers I work with work hard to minimize the number of setups to drive the cost
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 2, 2009
            More (helpful?) advice to throw into the mix. The mechanical
            engineers I work with work hard to minimize the number of setups to
            drive the cost down...designing to keep all accesses from the same
            side of the part. Sometimes this means using more material and/or
            sacrificing some of the aesthetics of the part. I am sure it is
            similar to the woodworking production business...the number of times
            an operator needs to intervene to reclamp/fixture a part for the next
            op has a significant impact on cost. Also, of course, keeping the
            number of tool changes within the capacity of the auto tool changer is
            also a good thing.
            Good luck,

            Steve


            --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "southofhadrianswall"
            <southofhadrianswall@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Will,
            >
            > Thank you for your detailed and helpful reply.
            >
            > You raise a very good point about designing for efficient production.
            > It's a concern I've attempted to address with alternative designs
            > intended to suit processes other than CNC milling. However, the part
            > in question requires a combination of shaping, slotting, and tapping
            > of holes that make at least some CNC milling inevitable as far as I
            > can see. Perhaps I'm mistaken in that conclusion. With any luck, I'll
            > be able to find an outfit that can give an opinion on the issue.
            >
            > Although I've spent a good portion of my professional life to date
            > working as a furniture designer and cabinetmaker, I'm strictly a hobby
            > machinist. Among the many unknowns for me in this project is whether
            > production costs will allow the venture to be economically viable. My
            > costing so far consists of pricing from emachineshop.com, whose cost
            > does indicate some potential viability. Working with a local shop
            > seems preferable for a number of reasons, not least of which is a more
            > direct involvement.
            >
            > And the current economic downturn finds me with time on my hands to
            > pursue an interest which might pay for itself.
            >
            > Regards,
            > Andrew
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, Will Schmit <anchornm@> wrote:
            > >
            > > I don't have any idea of what you are making, but in the past I have
            > saved a bundle by carefully analysing the part and looking for the
            > system best suited for (and the and the order of production)the job at
            > hand.
            > >
            > > Milling isn't always the answer.
            > >
            > > Case in point - I needed to make a part for computer security. Up
            > to this point, we had made "sheet metal stampings". This part was
            > thicker, and had a bend that would shear off easily (due to metal
            > fatigue at the bend). We had to make the part thicker "again". This
            > change put the gauge over the thickness that our stamping house could
            > do.
            > >
            > > We redesigned the part to be made of two pieces of hot rolled steel
            > (and a custom milled gusset). We had all the steel waterjet cut
            > (drilled holes, fixtures and tabs). We had to pay 3 set-up fees:
            > > 1- the flat cuts,
            > > 2- the 1"thick steel drilled for the gusset holes and sliced to 1"
            bars
            > > 3- the same bars tipped to 45 degrees and "ripped".
            > > The waterjet house didn't charge us a set-up fee to turn the gussets
            > and drill them the other direction (same hole position, but the
            > material was set-up 1/2" away from its original location).
            > >
            > > We had to buy a tapping head, and a cold saw, a couple of
            > countersinks, and a box of grade 8 bolts, but we had 100 parts in 3
            > weeks (which included a trip to El Paso and a week at the powdercoater).
            > >
            > > Best part -- we paid half what it would have cost if we had just
            > done it the way we had it designed.
            > >
            > > You may be able to "pre-form" all the parts in another way, and just
            > finish em up at home.
            > >
            > >
            > > ________________________________
            > > From: southofhadrianswall <southofhadrianswall@>
            > > To: taigtools@yahoogroups.com
            > > Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 5:32:30 PM
            > > Subject: [taigtools] Recommend a production CNC shop in Vancouver,
            > Canada?
            > >
            > >
            > > New Years Greetings to All!
            > >
            > > Can anyone recommend a good production CNC machine shop in the
            > > Vancouver, Canada area?
            > >
            > > I'm looking for a local outfit to produce a small aluminum part in a
            > > run of 100 or more. I can handle machining the prototype myself, but
            > > not a production run.
            > >
            > > Regards,
            > > Andrew
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
          • Pierre Coueffin
            A friend of mine works for a CNC outfit in Abbotsford. I don t know if they ll do small production runs or not, but I ll email him and see if he knows
            Message 5 of 8 , Jan 2, 2009
              A friend of mine works for a CNC outfit in Abbotsford. I don't know
              if they'll do small production runs or not, but I'll email him and see
              if he knows anybody.

              On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 4:32 PM, southofhadrianswall
              <southofhadrianswall@...> wrote:
              > New Years Greetings to All!
              >
              > Can anyone recommend a good production CNC machine shop in the
              > Vancouver, Canada area?
              >
              > I'm looking for a local outfit to produce a small aluminum part in a
              > run of 100 or more. I can handle machining the prototype myself, but
              > not a production run.
              >
              > Regards,
              > Andrew
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > To Post a message, send it to:
              > taigtools@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
              > taigtools-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Let the chips fly!
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Pierre Coueffin
              Well, my friend says that the outfit that he currently works for only does in-house stuff. That way they just leave the machines setup for the jobs that they
              Message 6 of 8 , Jan 3, 2009
                Well, my friend says that the outfit that he currently works for only
                does in-house stuff. That way they just leave the machines setup for
                the jobs that they dedicate them to. Their machines run pretty well
                full-time on their own parts.

                He used to work for an job shop in Coquitlam called Mahler.
                Apparently they should be able to make your parts or direct you to
                someone who will.

                A quick google search gets me the following:

                Mahler Industries
                www.mahlerindustries.com

                1324 Ketch Court
                Coquitlam, BC V3K 6W1
                (604) 525-1774

                Good luck with your search.

                On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 9:27 PM, Pierre Coueffin <pcoueffin@...> wrote:
                > A friend of mine works for a CNC outfit in Abbotsford. I don't know
                > if they'll do small production runs or not, but I'll email him and see
                > if he knows anybody.
                >
                > On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 4:32 PM, southofhadrianswall
                > <southofhadrianswall@...> wrote:
                >> New Years Greetings to All!
                >>
                >> Can anyone recommend a good production CNC machine shop in the
                >> Vancouver, Canada area?
                >>
                >> I'm looking for a local outfit to produce a small aluminum part in a
                >> run of 100 or more. I can handle machining the prototype myself, but
                >> not a production run.
                >>
                >> Regards,
                >> Andrew
                >>
                >>
                >> ------------------------------------
                >>
                >> To Post a message, send it to:
                >> taigtools@yahoogroups.com
                >>
                >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                >> taigtools-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >>
                >> Let the chips fly!
                >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >
              • southofhadrianswall
                Hi Pierre, Steve, Will, and company, Thank you all for your very helpful suggestions! A big thank you to all who emailed me offline as well. The group s
                Message 7 of 8 , Jan 3, 2009
                  Hi Pierre, Steve, Will, and company,

                  Thank you all for your very helpful suggestions! A big thank you to
                  all who emailed me offline as well.

                  The group's response to my initial query has been greater than I could
                  have hoped. I am now armed with a list of recommended outfits in my
                  neck of the woods. And with design suggestions too.

                  Again, thank you all!

                  Regards,
                  Andrew



                  --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "Pierre Coueffin" <pcoueffin@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Well, my friend says that the outfit that he currently works for only
                  > does in-house stuff. That way they just leave the machines setup for
                  > the jobs that they dedicate them to. Their machines run pretty well
                  > full-time on their own parts.
                  >
                  > He used to work for an job shop in Coquitlam called Mahler.
                  > Apparently they should be able to make your parts or direct you to
                  > someone who will.
                  >
                  > A quick google search gets me the following:
                  >
                  > Mahler Industries
                  > www.mahlerindustries.com
                  >
                  > 1324 Ketch Court
                  > Coquitlam, BC V3K 6W1
                  > (604) 525-1774
                  >
                  > Good luck with your search.
                  >
                  > On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 9:27 PM, Pierre Coueffin <pcoueffin@...> wrote:
                  > > A friend of mine works for a CNC outfit in Abbotsford. I don't know
                  > > if they'll do small production runs or not, but I'll email him and see
                  > > if he knows anybody.
                  > >
                  > > On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 4:32 PM, southofhadrianswall
                  > > <southofhadrianswall@...> wrote:
                  > >> New Years Greetings to All!
                  > >>
                  > >> Can anyone recommend a good production CNC machine shop in the
                  > >> Vancouver, Canada area?
                  > >>
                  > >> I'm looking for a local outfit to produce a small aluminum part in a
                  > >> run of 100 or more. I can handle machining the prototype myself, but
                  > >> not a production run.
                  > >>
                  > >> Regards,
                  > >> Andrew
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> ------------------------------------
                  > >>
                  > >> To Post a message, send it to:
                  > >> taigtools@yahoogroups.com
                  > >>
                  > >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                  > >> taigtools-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > >>
                  > >> Let the chips fly!
                  > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >
                  >
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