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RE: [taigtools] Coolant type

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  • Bertho Boman
    Thanks Steve, I am hoping for a solution that I do not have to worry about mixing ratios, evaporations and bacteria growing in it. I do not have experience
    Message 1 of 24 , Feb 1, 2008
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      Thanks Steve,

      I am hoping for a solution that I do not have to worry about mixing ratios,
      evaporations and bacteria growing in it. I do not have experience with the
      coolants so maybe I am worrying too much.



      I am not using the mill for production work, just to make a prototype or
      model maybe every second week or so, and I might start a job and have to let
      it sit for days since priorities change. In the meantime I do not want to
      worry about the coolant doing something bad just sitting there.



      Thanks Jeff for the warning. I have been careful and I have only used the
      mist for a couple of hours, long enough to know that I do not want to
      continue that way.

      Bertho



      From Steve Blackmore Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 16:40



      >I am in the process of building a flood coolant system for the MicroMill. I
      >really do not like the idea of using a water based coolant although it is
      >commercially used.

      Why not? If you use a good coolant there are no problems with it, apart
      from you must use commercial way oil for lubrication, otherwise it gets
      washed off too easily.

      I use Rocol Ultracut 370 Plus semi-synthetic coolant at 50:1 dilution.
      It doesn't smell bad, cause me skin irritation, make my machines go
      rusty or suffer from bacterial infections. Can't fault it.





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Michael Fagan
      If they re exposed gears, you ll want to run some sort of grease, if it s a sealed gearbox, Mobil Velocite is good. Depending on the design, if the bearings
      Message 2 of 24 , Feb 1, 2008
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        If they're exposed gears, you'll want to run some sort of grease, if it's a
        sealed gearbox, Mobil Velocite is good.
        Depending on the design, if the bearings are open, you'll need to run a
        spindle oil like the Velocite, but if the bearings are lubricated separately
        from the gears (such as in a QC gearbox with permanently sealed bearings or
        a machine with dedicated bearing oilers), you'd want to run a heavier gear
        oil such as SAE 90WT or any good synthetic gear oil product. The heavier
        oils will not adequately lubricate bearings, but they are better for the
        gears. It really all depends on how the system is set up.
        Also, with regards to chain saw oil, it has added tackifiers, so it sticks
        to things, which makes it great for slideways and other surfaces but it will
        gum up bearings and transmissions.

        On Jan 31, 2008 11:39 PM, Bertho Boman <boman01@...> wrote:

        > Thanks for all the suggestions for Vactra #2 way oil. I have accounts
        > with
        > the suppliers so it will be easy to order it now that I know what to get.
        > Also thanks Jeff for the suggestion to use the chain saw oil as an easy to
        > find item.
        >
        > How about the big lathe's spindle gears and feed gear box? Any
        > suggestions?
        >
        >
        > TIA
        >
        > Bertho
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Steve Blackmore
        ... Mixing ratios is a graduated plastic jug and a bucket of water, not too critical ;) ... My shop is cold and damp, machines left for days sometimes. All I
        Message 3 of 24 , Feb 1, 2008
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          On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 03:03:33 -0500, you wrote:

          >I am hoping for a solution that I do not have to worry about mixing ratios,
          >evaporations and bacteria growing in it. I do not have experience with the
          >coolants so maybe I am worrying too much.

          Mixing ratios is a graduated plastic jug and a bucket of water, not too
          critical ;)

          >I am not using the mill for production work, just to make a prototype or
          >model maybe every second week or so, and I might start a job and have to let
          >it sit for days since priorities change. In the meantime I do not want to
          >worry about the coolant doing something bad just sitting there.

          My shop is cold and damp, machines left for days sometimes. All I do is
          clear the swarf off and leave them. No rust. As the water evaporates off
          it leaves a nice oily coating. Then oil the ways before starting again.

          Steve Blackmore
          --
        • Michael Fagan
          One thing you might try would be a plain mineral-oil based non-sulfurized light cutting oil. Often known as neat oils because they re not mixed with
          Message 4 of 24 , Feb 1, 2008
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            One thing you might try would be a plain mineral-oil based non-sulfurized
            light cutting oil. Often known as "neat" oils because they're not mixed
            with anything unlike soluble oils, you can buy them in 1 gallon and 5 gallon
            jugs quite inexpensively. Note that this isn't that heavy, dark, sulfurized
            cutting oil like you'd use for pipe threading and such, but a much lighter
            oil. It's often used for the highest-precision work because it can be made
            and kept very pure. You'd need to contain and recirculate it because it can
            be quite messy (it's about the viscosity of #10 motor oil) but it will never
            have any bacteria or rust problems. You will also need a much stronger pump
            for the recirculation than you could use if you were using a water-based
            coolant.
            http://www.azom.com/details.asp?ArticleID=2238 for a good general
            description of neat cutting oils.

            On Jan 31, 2008 11:30 AM, Bertho Boman <boman01@...> wrote:

            > I really do not like the idea of using a water based coolant although it
            > is
            > commercially used. What practical alternative are there? Yes, I know- Keep
            > a fire extinguisher close by.
            >
            > TIA
            >
            > Bertho
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • mbonfire2002
            Absolutely agree with Steve. I run (three years now) KoolMist water based flood coolant and use #2 way oil (hangs on great without being washed off by the
            Message 5 of 24 , Feb 1, 2008
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              Absolutely agree with Steve. I run (three years now) KoolMist water
              based flood coolant and use #2 way oil (hangs on great without being
              washed off by the coolant) on my Taig mill. No rust, no bad odor, not
              too hard on the hands, little scum (just drag a paper towel across the
              top of the bucket to skim any scum). Best addition to a small mill
              that you can make IMHO.

              Steve


              --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, Steve Blackmore <steve@...> wrote:
              >
              > On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 03:03:33 -0500, you wrote:
              >
              > >I am hoping for a solution that I do not have to worry about mixing
              ratios,
              > >evaporations and bacteria growing in it. I do not have experience
              with the
              > >coolants so maybe I am worrying too much.
              >
              > Mixing ratios is a graduated plastic jug and a bucket of water, not too
              > critical ;)
              >
              > >I am not using the mill for production work, just to make a
              prototype or
              > >model maybe every second week or so, and I might start a job and
              have to let
              > >it sit for days since priorities change. In the meantime I do not
              want to
              > >worry about the coolant doing something bad just sitting there.
              >
              > My shop is cold and damp, machines left for days sometimes. All I do is
              > clear the swarf off and leave them. No rust. As the water evaporates off
              > it leaves a nice oily coating. Then oil the ways before starting again.
              >
              > Steve Blackmore
              > --
              >
            • atvkid1090
              Question for you guys- I m on J&L Supply and they have two flavors of Kool Mist...#77 and #78. Any ideas on which one is better ? The majority of my work
              Message 6 of 24 , Feb 2, 2008
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                Question for you guys- I'm on J&L Supply and they have two flavors of
                Kool Mist...#77 and #78. Any ideas on which one is "better"? The
                majority of my work would be done in Delrin and Copper.

                Thanks in advance :)

                --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "mbonfire2002" <mbonfire@...> wrote:
                >
                > Absolutely agree with Steve. I run (three years now) KoolMist water
                > based flood coolant and use #2 way oil (hangs on great without being
                > washed off by the coolant) on my Taig mill. No rust, no bad odor, not
                > too hard on the hands, little scum (just drag a paper towel across the
                > top of the bucket to skim any scum). Best addition to a small mill
                > that you can make IMHO.
                >
                > Steve
                >
                >
                > --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, Steve Blackmore <steve@> wrote:
                > >
                > > On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 03:03:33 -0500, you wrote:
                > >
                > > >I am hoping for a solution that I do not have to worry about mixing
                > ratios,
                > > >evaporations and bacteria growing in it. I do not have experience
                > with the
                > > >coolants so maybe I am worrying too much.
                > >
                > > Mixing ratios is a graduated plastic jug and a bucket of water,
                not too
                > > critical ;)
                > >
                > > >I am not using the mill for production work, just to make a
                > prototype or
                > > >model maybe every second week or so, and I might start a job and
                > have to let
                > > >it sit for days since priorities change. In the meantime I do not
                > want to
                > > >worry about the coolant doing something bad just sitting there.
                > >
                > > My shop is cold and damp, machines left for days sometimes. All I
                do is
                > > clear the swarf off and leave them. No rust. As the water
                evaporates off
                > > it leaves a nice oily coating. Then oil the ways before starting
                again.
                > >
                > > Steve Blackmore
                > > --
                > >
                >
              • mbonfire2002
                ... I have only used Koolmist 77 so can t say anything about 78. As far as Delrin, I would check for chemical compatibility but my guess/experience is that
                Message 7 of 24 , Feb 2, 2008
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                  --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "atvkid1090" <ATVkid1090@...> wrote:
                  I have only used Koolmist 77 so can't say anything about 78. As far
                  as Delrin, I would check for chemical compatibility but my
                  guess/experience is that Delrin won't care at all about getting washed
                  down with the Koolmist 77. As far as copper, I have almost no
                  experience milling it (I do mostly aluminum and free machining steel
                  and some brass). I hear copper (in general, of course their are many
                  alloys) is wicked to work with (gummy) and have even read that people
                  swear by using dairy products (cream) as a cutting fluid (I would
                  **not** recommend running cream as a flood coolant!).

                  Steve




                  >
                  > Question for you guys- I'm on J&L Supply and they have two flavors of
                  > Kool Mist...#77 and #78. Any ideas on which one is "better"? The
                  > majority of my work would be done in Delrin and Copper.
                  >
                  > Thanks in advance :)
                  >
                  > --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "mbonfire2002" <mbonfire@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Absolutely agree with Steve. I run (three years now) KoolMist water
                  > > based flood coolant and use #2 way oil (hangs on great without being
                  > > washed off by the coolant) on my Taig mill. No rust, no bad odor, not
                  > > too hard on the hands, little scum (just drag a paper towel across the
                  > > top of the bucket to skim any scum). Best addition to a small mill
                  > > that you can make IMHO.
                  > >
                  > > Steve
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, Steve Blackmore <steve@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 03:03:33 -0500, you wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > >I am hoping for a solution that I do not have to worry about mixing
                  > > ratios,
                  > > > >evaporations and bacteria growing in it. I do not have experience
                  > > with the
                  > > > >coolants so maybe I am worrying too much.
                  > > >
                  > > > Mixing ratios is a graduated plastic jug and a bucket of water,
                  > not too
                  > > > critical ;)
                  > > >
                  > > > >I am not using the mill for production work, just to make a
                  > > prototype or
                  > > > >model maybe every second week or so, and I might start a job and
                  > > have to let
                  > > > >it sit for days since priorities change. In the meantime I do not
                  > > want to
                  > > > >worry about the coolant doing something bad just sitting there.
                  > > >
                  > > > My shop is cold and damp, machines left for days sometimes. All I
                  > do is
                  > > > clear the swarf off and leave them. No rust. As the water
                  > evaporates off
                  > > > it leaves a nice oily coating. Then oil the ways before starting
                  > again.
                  > > >
                  > > > Steve Blackmore
                  > > > --
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • Clive Foster
                  Steve Its milk, not cream, and somewhat diluted that is the dairy product used when machining copper. Works but the tooling needs to be very sharp and it does
                  Message 8 of 24 , Feb 2, 2008
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                    Steve

                    Its milk, not cream, and somewhat diluted that is the dairy
                    product used when machining copper.
                    Works but the tooling needs to be very sharp and it does pong
                    rather. Used with a low volume pump to keep working area
                    wet but not enough delivery for splash everywhere. Has to
                    be kept wet as going from wet to dry is disasterville with
                    serious surface tearing.

                    The guys who made copper electrodes for spark erosion
                    machining at my former place of work had a special commercial
                    liquid which by all accounts worked better and was much less
                    smelly than milk. Sorry I haven't a clue what it was or who
                    made it but possibly searching in the EDM supplier area might
                    find it. In those days Rocol had the contract to supply the
                    stores with all the general issue cutting lubes etc. but, if
                    something exotic was wanted from another supplier, it
                    would be bought.

                    Clive

                    >
                    > --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "atvkid1090" <ATVkid1090@> wrote:
                    > I have only used Koolmist 77 so can't say anything about 78. As far
                    > as Delrin, I would check for chemical compatibility but my
                    > guess/experience is that Delrin won't care at all about getting washed
                    > down with the Koolmist 77. As far as copper, I have almost no
                    > experience milling it (I do mostly aluminum and free machining steel
                    > and some brass). I hear copper (in general, of course their are many
                    > alloys) is wicked to work with (gummy) and have even read that people
                    > swear by using dairy products (cream) as a cutting fluid (I would
                    > **not** recommend running cream as a flood coolant!).
                    >
                    > Steve
                    >
                    >
                  • Steve Blackmore
                    ... Possibly Rocol Ultracut 280 Designed for Copper and Aluminium, all that varies is the mix ratio for the metal. Steve Blackmore --
                    Message 9 of 24 , Feb 2, 2008
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                      On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 20:05:01 -0000, you wrote:

                      >The guys who made copper electrodes for spark erosion
                      >machining at my former place of work had a special commercial
                      >liquid which by all accounts worked better and was much less
                      >smelly than milk.

                      Possibly Rocol Ultracut 280
                      Designed for Copper and Aluminium, all that varies is the mix ratio for
                      the metal.

                      Steve Blackmore
                      --
                    • toolsrul@bellsouth.net
                      Try Murphy s oil soap, works great. ... From: mbonfire2002
                      Message 10 of 24 , Feb 2, 2008
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                        Try Murphy's oil soap, works great.


                        -------------- Original message ----------------------
                        From: "mbonfire2002" <mbonfire@...>
                        >
                        > --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "atvkid1090" <ATVkid1090@...> wrote:
                        > I have only used Koolmist 77 so can't say anything about 78. As far
                        > as Delrin, I would check for chemical compatibility but my
                        > guess/experience is that Delrin won't care at all about getting washed
                        > down with the Koolmist 77. As far as copper, I have almost no
                        > experience milling it (I do mostly aluminum and free machining steel
                        > and some brass). I hear copper (in general, of course their are many
                        > alloys) is wicked to work with (gummy) and have even read that people
                        > swear by using dairy products (cream) as a cutting fluid (I would
                        > **not** recommend running cream as a flood coolant!).
                        >
                        > Steve
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > >
                        > > Question for you guys- I'm on J&L Supply and they have two flavors of
                        > > Kool Mist...#77 and #78. Any ideas on which one is "better"? The
                        > > majority of my work would be done in Delrin and Copper.
                        > >
                        > > Thanks in advance :)
                        > >
                        > > --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "mbonfire2002" <mbonfire@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Absolutely agree with Steve. I run (three years now) KoolMist water
                        > > > based flood coolant and use #2 way oil (hangs on great without being
                        > > > washed off by the coolant) on my Taig mill. No rust, no bad odor, not
                        > > > too hard on the hands, little scum (just drag a paper towel across the
                        > > > top of the bucket to skim any scum). Best addition to a small mill
                        > > > that you can make IMHO.
                        > > >
                        > > > Steve
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, Steve Blackmore <steve@> wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 03:03:33 -0500, you wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > >I am hoping for a solution that I do not have to worry about mixing
                        > > > ratios,
                        > > > > >evaporations and bacteria growing in it. I do not have experience
                        > > > with the
                        > > > > >coolants so maybe I am worrying too much.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Mixing ratios is a graduated plastic jug and a bucket of water,
                        > > not too
                        > > > > critical ;)
                        > > > >
                        > > > > >I am not using the mill for production work, just to make a
                        > > > prototype or
                        > > > > >model maybe every second week or so, and I might start a job and
                        > > > have to let
                        > > > > >it sit for days since priorities change. In the meantime I do not
                        > > > want to
                        > > > > >worry about the coolant doing something bad just sitting there.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > My shop is cold and damp, machines left for days sometimes. All I
                        > > do is
                        > > > > clear the swarf off and leave them. No rust. As the water
                        > > evaporates off
                        > > > > it leaves a nice oily coating. Then oil the ways before starting
                        > > again.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Steve Blackmore
                        > > > > --
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Clive Foster
                        ... Logical and almost certainly correct. I use Ultracut 370 as a general purpose nostrum and find it entirely satisfactory for all sane jobs. Ultracut 280
                        Message 11 of 24 , Feb 3, 2008
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                          Steve Blackmore <steve@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 20:05:01 -0000, you wrote:
                          >
                          > >The guys who made copper electrodes for spark erosion
                          > >machining at my former place of work had a special commercial
                          > >liquid which by all accounts worked better and was much less
                          > >smelly than milk.
                          >
                          > Possibly Rocol Ultracut 280
                          > Designed for Copper and Aluminium, all that varies is the mix ratio for
                          > the metal.
                          >
                          > Steve Blackmore
                          > --
                          Logical and almost certainly correct.
                          I use Ultracut 370 as a general purpose nostrum and find it
                          entirely satisfactory for all sane jobs.
                          Ultracut 280 should be just as good its job.
                          I notice that RS still supplies Ultracut 280A and 370 in the UK
                          but the price is getting high.

                          Clive

                          Clive
                        • Steve Blackmore
                          ... Don t buy it from RS , Having said that they are cheaper than J&L for that. Try locally. My local bearing suppler sells industrial lubes and fluids too
                          Message 12 of 24 , Feb 3, 2008
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                            On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 10:14:59 -0000, you wrote:

                            >I use Ultracut 370 as a general purpose nostrum and find it
                            >entirely satisfactory for all sane jobs.
                            >Ultracut 280 should be just as good its job.
                            >I notice that RS still supplies Ultracut 280A and 370 in the UK
                            >but the price is getting high.

                            Don't buy it from RS <G>, Having said that they are cheaper than J&L for
                            that. Try locally. My local bearing suppler sells industrial lubes and
                            fluids too and he's cheaper than both of them.

                            It "looks" expensive, but you get 50 gallons when diluted and it's then
                            good value when you consider it doesn't go "off".

                            I do exactly the same as the other Steve says, occasionally just lay a
                            bit of kitchen towel on the surface and it lifts the tramp oil off and
                            leaves your "expensive" coolant in the tank.

                            Steve Blackmore
                            --
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