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Re: Cleanup cut on CNC mill

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  • Paul W. Chamberlain
    My experience with a 1/8 3 flute HSS endmill is doing roughing passes at 0.60 per pass, and leaving 0.010 for the finish pass. The roughing passes are
    Message 1 of 24 , Jan 1, 2008
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      My experience with a 1/8" 3 flute HSS endmill is doing roughing
      passes at 0.60" per pass, and leaving 0.010" for the finish pass. The
      roughing passes are conventional, and the finish pass is full depth
      climb milling. I tried leaving just 0.005", but there was enough
      flexing of the endmill while effectively slot cutting that the finish
      pass didn't completely clean the steps.

      I have also done back and forth slotting passes, offsetting 0.005"
      from an imaginary 0.010" offset with each pass, such that the endmill
      is predominately cutting conventional with some chip clearance. It is
      quicker than going up and over clamps to get back to a common
      starting point. And it allows me to have an average 0.0075" material
      to remove on the climb finish pass.

      If I use pocketing for internal contours, then I can get a clean
      finish pass with 0.005" material left by the roughing passes.

      Paul, Central OR
      http:/MiniMechanicals.com

      *****

      --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "Bertho Boman" <boman01@...> wrote:
      >
      > After all these discussions about cutting depth and feeds, I have a
      work
      > flow related question.
      >
      >
      >
      > How is a cleanup cut efficiently created?
      >
      >
      >
      > I use LazyCAM Pro to generate the tool path, let's just pretend a
      big
      > keyhole that goes all the way through the material. After several
      passes it
      > is done but I would like it to be slightly undersized and then do a
      final
      > cut to dimension.
      >
      >
      >
      > I could lie to LazyCAM and tell it my cutter was slightly bigger
      and run the
      > program once and then change to the correct cutter size and
      generate a
      > second version. Running the second version as it is would waste a
      lot of
      > time since it would take many passes trying to get through the
      material
      > since it thinks it is cutting all the way through again or I could
      set depth
      > per cut to more than the material thickness or I could manually
      edit the G
      > code to strip out the early passes.
      >
      >
      >
      > There got to be a simpler more efficient way! Suggestions?
      >
      >
      >
      > Happy New Year!
      >
      > Bertho
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Bertho Boman
      Thanks Paul, It looks like you are taking a 0.060 cut and the cutter is 0.125 so that matches the suggested 50% cutter width previously suggested. The 5-10
      Message 2 of 24 , Jan 1, 2008
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        Thanks Paul,

        It looks like you are taking a 0.060" cut and the cutter is 0.125" so that
        matches the suggested 50% cutter width previously suggested. The 5-10
        thousands final climb milling cut sounds good too but how do I efficiently
        generate that G-code?



        I have been writing G code from scratch before but now I am trying to set up
        an efficient workflow going from an AutoCAD 2-D drawing to a finished part.
        As a first attempt I have been using LazyCAM Pro. I have not found any
        option for creating a cleanup pass there and I wonder how it can easily be
        done. I sometimes need to make front and rear panels for electronic
        equipment and it looks like a good combination using AutoCAD and LazyCAM.
        Since I usually only do one or two panels I do not want to spend the time
        tweaking the G code for best speed/appearance/performance.



        After that milestone is reached I will then work on 3-D using Mesh-CAM which
        I already bought.



        Am I overlooking something obvious? Should I change software?

        TIA

        Bertho

        (Who wants to efficiently run the CNC equipment for the New Year)



        From: taigtools@yahoogroups.com [mailto:taigtools@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of Paul W. Chamberlain
        Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 04:06
        To: taigtools@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [taigtools] Re: Cleanup cut on CNC mill



        My experience with a 1/8" 3 flute HSS endmill is doing roughing
        passes at 0.60" per pass, and leaving 0.010" for the finish pass. The
        roughing passes are conventional, and the finish pass is full depth
        climb milling. I tried leaving just 0.005", but there was enough
        flexing of the endmill while effectively slot cutting that the finish
        pass didn't completely clean the steps.

        I have also done back and forth slotting passes, offsetting 0.005"
        from an imaginary 0.010" offset with each pass, such that the endmill
        is predominately cutting conventional with some chip clearance. It is
        quicker than going up and over clamps to get back to a common
        starting point. And it allows me to have an average 0.0075" material
        to remove on the climb finish pass.

        If I use pocketing for internal contours, then I can get a clean
        finish pass with 0.005" material left by the roughing passes.

        Paul, Central OR
        http:/MiniMechanicals.com





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Paul W. Chamberlain
        Hi Bertho, You can create multiple offsets in LazyCam Pro. While the part s profile is selected, just change the tool selected and direction of cut.
        Message 3 of 24 , Jan 1, 2008
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          Hi Bertho,

          You can create multiple offsets in LazyCam Pro. While the part's
          profile is selected, just change the tool selected and direction of
          cut. Inside/outside setting would stay the same.

          I have multiple tool definitions for that 1/8" endmill:

          1/8" Roughing - 0.125" - 0.060" per pass (generic conventional
          milling)

          1/8" OS1 - 0.130" - 0.060" per pass (oversize for back and forth
          roughing)

          1/8" OS2 - 0.135" - 0.060" per pass (oversize for slot roughing)

          1/8" Finish - 0.125" - 0.3125" per pass (finish climb milling at full
          depth for 1/4" material)

          For an outside contour Offset using a slotting style cut, I would
          select the 1/8" OS2 tool, Outside, and unchecked the Clockwise
          toolpath box for the roughing offset. Selecting the created Offset,
          and it's Layers tab, I set my Rapid Height at 0.1000 units and
          CutDepth at -0.3125 units (Set Layer).

          For the finish pass, I would select the 1/8" Finish tool, Outside,
          and check the Clockwise toolpath box. The new Offset's Layers tab
          would have the same Rapid and CutDepth settings.

          I just tried it with LazyCam Pro 3.00, and works fine. Some of the
          earlier versions of LCam had problems with Outside Offsets and 0.125"
          tools.

          Keep in mind that both LazyCam Pro and MeshCAM2 are maturing apps.
          Art, Brian and Robert are very responsive to user issues, and
          continue improving their products... although as of today, Art will
          have a minimal role with his hard earned retirement. I'm surprised he
          still has enough grey cells left to know what retirement is. ;o)

          Tweaking G-code is common to adjust for your local setup. The CAM
          apps have to address a broad base of users/machines, so may not
          generate best speed/appearance/performance at first try. However,
          your panel cuts are effectively mass production, since the material,
          tooling and workholding will remain the same... just changing the
          cutpaths for each panel. Once you get the first one fine tuned, you
          should be able to tweak the tool definitions in LazyCam Pro to get
          what you want for the rest of the panels you need in the future. If
          you deal with both aluminum panels and steel panels, then you'll have
          to tweak twice. ;o)

          I use CutViewerMill/Turn to proof my generated G-code. They aren't
          cheap, but they work great and Stan is very responsive to requests.
          Other cutpath simulators are out there down in price to free
          download. CNCSimulator and NCPlot are a couple you might look at.
          Proofing in a simulator can save a lot of frustration, metal and
          tooling.

          Paul, Central OR
          http://MiniMechanicals.com

          *****

          --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "Bertho Boman" <boman01@...> wrote:
          >
          > Thanks Paul,
          >
          > It looks like you are taking a 0.060" cut and the cutter is 0.125"
          so that
          > matches the suggested 50% cutter width previously suggested. The 5-
          10
          > thousands final climb milling cut sounds good too but how do I
          efficiently
          > generate that G-code?
          >
          >
          >
          > I have been writing G code from scratch before but now I am trying
          to set up
          > an efficient workflow going from an AutoCAD 2-D drawing to a
          finished part.
          > As a first attempt I have been using LazyCAM Pro. I have not found
          any
          > option for creating a cleanup pass there and I wonder how it can
          easily be
          > done. I sometimes need to make front and rear panels for electronic
          > equipment and it looks like a good combination using AutoCAD and
          LazyCAM.
          > Since I usually only do one or two panels I do not want to spend
          the time
          > tweaking the G code for best speed/appearance/performance.
          >
          >
          >
          > After that milestone is reached I will then work on 3-D using Mesh-
          CAM which
          > I already bought.
          >
          >
          >
          > Am I overlooking something obvious? Should I change software?
          >
          > TIA
          >
          > Bertho
          >
          > (Who wants to efficiently run the CNC equipment for the New Year)
          >
          >
          >
          > From: taigtools@yahoogroups.com [mailto:taigtools@yahoogroups.com]
          On Behalf
          > Of Paul W. Chamberlain
          > Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 04:06
          > To: taigtools@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [taigtools] Re: Cleanup cut on CNC mill
          >
          >
          >
          > My experience with a 1/8" 3 flute HSS endmill is doing roughing
          > passes at 0.60" per pass, and leaving 0.010" for the finish pass.
          The
          > roughing passes are conventional, and the finish pass is full depth
          > climb milling. I tried leaving just 0.005", but there was enough
          > flexing of the endmill while effectively slot cutting that the
          finish
          > pass didn't completely clean the steps.
          >
          > I have also done back and forth slotting passes, offsetting 0.005"
          > from an imaginary 0.010" offset with each pass, such that the
          endmill
          > is predominately cutting conventional with some chip clearance. It
          is
          > quicker than going up and over clamps to get back to a common
          > starting point. And it allows me to have an average 0.0075"
          material
          > to remove on the climb finish pass.
          >
          > If I use pocketing for internal contours, then I can get a clean
          > finish pass with 0.005" material left by the roughing passes.
          >
          > Paul, Central OR
          > http:/MiniMechanicals.com
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Bertho Boman
          Paul, I really appreciate that you are taking the time to give me a detailed answer. Typically I do not do any production of my panels or other items that I
          Message 4 of 24 , Jan 1, 2008
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            Paul,

            I really appreciate that you are taking the time to give me a detailed
            answer.



            Typically I do not do any "production" of my panels or other items that I
            machine. They are just one or a couple of prototypes and once approved, I
            then order them commercially or I have injection molded cases made where
            applicable.



            I understand what you mean with using the offsets (over sized tool
            definition) but what is not clear is if you are running them as separate
            programs. Are you running a roughing program first and when it is finished,
            you load the second finishing program?



            Or are you manually coping and pasting in the second finishing program at
            the end of the first roughing one.

            Or is there an option that I have not found in LazyCAM to do that
            automatically.



            For example: Create a pocket and set a finishing pass option to 0.010". If
            not, that would be a great optionJ

            Thanks again,

            Bertho



            From: Paul W. Chamberlain Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 13:56
            Hi Bertho,

            You can create multiple offsets in LazyCam Pro. While the part's
            profile is selected, just change the tool selected and direction of
            cut. Inside/outside setting would stay the same.

            I have multiple tool definitions for that 1/8" endmill:





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Paul W. Chamberlain
            Hi Bertho, By production, I was only implying the material/tool/workholding would be similar for various sheet cutting prototype projects. Basically,
            Message 5 of 24 , Jan 1, 2008
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              Hi Bertho,

              By production, I was only implying the material/tool/workholding
              would be similar for various sheet cutting prototype projects.
              Basically, experience running parts will give you the values for more
              precise tool definitions in LazyCam. Kind of a chicken before the egg
              thing.

              A good speed and feed calculator will get you in the ballpark so you
              don't have any pucker moments. There is one in Mach3 Wizards. I use
              the free Mfg Calculator that comes with the free AutoEditNC. I set
              the basic velocity for calculations to 50% to compensate for our
              smaller, less rigid machines... compared to the full size machinery
              the calculators are designed for.

              *****

              You manage the G-code toolpath segments (chains) in the
              LazyCam "Projects" panel. You can drag the individual toolpath ops
              into the order you want to function. Then generate the G-code, and
              all operations should be there with tool change M codes before each
              next op. If you are using the same endmill for roughing, finish,
              pocketing, etc. then you can ignore the tool changes when running and
              either edit them out, or just select "continue" (spacebar?) when the
              code pauses.

              You can also generate individual toolpaths and hand code them
              together. Just be sure the ending location for one operation
              positions the tool ready to start the next segment of code. Edit out
              the post processor code between segments, leaving just the initial
              and final M codes.

              You Might want to contact Brett (Chaoticone) on the ArtSoft (Mach3)
              forum. He has really been wringing out LazyCam features, and is more
              on top of it than I am. There is an area on the forum dedicated to
              LazyCam:

              http://www.artsoftcontrols.com/forum/index.php?board=14.0

              I'll help as best I can as well...

              Paul, Central OR
              http://MiniMechanicals.com

              *****

              --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "Bertho Boman" <boman01@...> wrote:
              >
              > Paul,
              >
              > I really appreciate that you are taking the time to give me a
              detailed
              > answer.
              >
              >
              >
              > Typically I do not do any "production" of my panels or other items
              that I
              > machine. They are just one or a couple of prototypes and once
              approved, I
              > then order them commercially or I have injection molded cases made
              where
              > applicable.
              >
              >
              >
              > I understand what you mean with using the offsets (over sized tool
              > definition) but what is not clear is if you are running them as
              separate
              > programs. Are you running a roughing program first and when it is
              finished,
              > you load the second finishing program?
              >
              >
              >
              > Or are you manually coping and pasting in the second finishing
              program at
              > the end of the first roughing one.
              >
              > Or is there an option that I have not found in LazyCAM to do that
              > automatically.
              >
              >
              >
              > For example: Create a pocket and set a finishing pass option to
              0.010". If
              > not, that would be a great optionJ
              >
              > Thanks again,
              >
              > Bertho
              >
              >
              >
              > From: Paul W. Chamberlain Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 13:56
              > Hi Bertho,
              >
              > You can create multiple offsets in LazyCam Pro. While the part's
              > profile is selected, just change the tool selected and direction of
              > cut. Inside/outside setting would stay the same.
              >
              > I have multiple tool definitions for that 1/8" endmill:
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Paul W. Chamberlain
              Hi Bertho, I meant to say contact Chip (afn09556) on the forum for LazyCam. Brett is the one for KeyGrabber/Pendant issues. ... Paul, Central OR
              Message 6 of 24 , Jan 1, 2008
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                Hi Bertho,

                I meant to say contact Chip (afn09556) on the forum for LazyCam. Brett
                is the one for KeyGrabber/Pendant issues.

                <snip>
                > You Might want to contact Brett (Chaoticone) on the ArtSoft (Mach3)
                > forum. He has really been wringing out LazyCam features, and is more
                > on top of it than I am.

                Paul, Central OR
                http://MiniMechanicals.com
              • Michael Fagan
                The higher end CAM programs such as MasterCAM, SurfCAM, and FeatureCAM all have separate panels for roughing and finishing cuts. Since most large CNC machines
                Message 7 of 24 , Jan 2, 2008
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                  The higher end CAM programs such as MasterCAM, SurfCAM, and FeatureCAM all
                  have separate panels for roughing and finishing cuts. Since most large CNC
                  machines use separate tools for roughing and finishing, it allows you to
                  specify that too, as well as different feed rates, cutting strategies (like
                  climb or conventional milling), depths of cut, and cut overlap.
                  When programming my own cnc Taig, I usually use a g-code generation utility
                  that one of my friends wrote for me. It allows me to select a number of
                  different situations (circle, rectangle, arbitrary polygon) and then an
                  operation, such as pocketing the entire shape or simply taking a cut along
                  the line (we called it windowing). I will run the pocketing operation with
                  the dimensions of the shape matching the desired roughing pass. Then I run
                  the windowing op at the finish dimensions, taking a cut around the
                  periphery. Both ops can be configured to run in one or multiple depth
                  passes, depending on the mat'l, size, etc. I tend to peck the pocketing op
                  and run the windowing at full depth, 0.005"-0.010" left on the dimensions
                  for the finishing pass.

                  On Dec 31, 2007 10:44 PM, Bertho Boman <boman01@...> wrote:

                  > After all these discussions about cutting depth and feeds, I have a work
                  > flow related question.
                  >
                  > How is a cleanup cut efficiently created?
                  >
                  > I use LazyCAM Pro to generate the tool path, let's just pretend a big
                  > keyhole that goes all the way through the material. After several passes
                  > it
                  > is done but I would like it to be slightly undersized and then do a final
                  > cut to dimension.
                  >
                  > I could lie to LazyCAM and tell it my cutter was slightly bigger and run
                  > the
                  > program once and then change to the correct cutter size and generate a
                  > second version. Running the second version as it is would waste a lot of
                  > time since it would take many passes trying to get through the material
                  > since it thinks it is cutting all the way through again or I could set
                  > depth
                  > per cut to more than the material thickness or I could manually edit the G
                  > code to strip out the early passes.
                  >
                  > There got to be a simpler more efficient way! Suggestions?
                  >
                  > Happy New Year!
                  >
                  > Bertho
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • J. Todd Shultz
                  Bob, it cost you more than that... Switches, potentiometer, cords, wiring, something to mount it in etc... bob_ledoux wrote:
                  Message 8 of 24 , Jan 3, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Bob, it cost you more than that... Switches, potentiometer, cords, wiring, something to mount it in etc...

                    bob_ledoux <bobledoux@...> wrote: Try my variable speed drive. My cost was $37. The motor is the
                    Surplus Center model 10-1023 for $6.95, and the drive is their 11-2449
                    for $29.95. It gives me a range of 5 (five) rpm to 7,000 rpm. The
                    motor has a 12mm drive shaft so it requires a special pully setup.

                    --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "ackermanpens" <charles@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I'm looking for a smaller motor for my Taig lathe. I just turn
                    > plastic, so I don't need a lot of power, but I turn a lot of plastic,
                    > so a quieter motor would be preferred.
                    >
                    > Pardon if this question has already been answered. I did a search for
                    > "motor" on this user group, and came up with over 5,000 hits. I'm
                    > hoping someone can provide a quicker answer.
                    >
                    > I use the lathe in my shop now, but I would like to bring it into the
                    > house and use it in a small bedroom. Cutting down the motor noise
                    > would be a big benefit.
                    >
                    > Not sure what to look for. Thought someone out there has done the same
                    > thing, and I can benefit from their experience.
                    >
                    > Thanks, CKA
                    >






                    ---------------------------------
                    Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Ackerman Pens
                    Hi, Todd - Thanks for the clarification. Since I am electricity-dumb, can I get all the things you mention at the Surplus Center, or ask them to package
                    Message 9 of 24 , Jan 3, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hi, Todd -

                      Thanks for the clarification. Since I am electricity-dumb, can I get all the things you mention at the Surplus Center, or ask them to package whatever else I need?

                      Thanks, Charles Ackerman


                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: J. Todd Shultz
                      To: taigtools@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 8:49 AM
                      Subject: Re: [taigtools] Re: motor options for Taig lathe


                      Bob, it cost you more than that... Switches, potentiometer, cords, wiring, something to mount it in etc...

                      bob_ledoux <bobledoux@...> wrote: Try my variable speed drive. My cost was $37. The motor is the
                      Surplus Center model 10-1023 for $6.95, and the drive is their 11-2449
                      for $29.95. It gives me a range of 5 (five) rpm to 7,000 rpm. The
                      motor has a 12mm drive shaft so it requires a special pully setup.

                      --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "ackermanpens" <charles@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I'm looking for a smaller motor for my Taig lathe. I just turn
                      > plastic, so I don't need a lot of power, but I turn a lot of plastic,
                      > so a quieter motor would be preferred.
                      >
                      > Pardon if this question has already been answered. I did a search for
                      > "motor" on this user group, and came up with over 5,000 hits. I'm
                      > hoping someone can provide a quicker answer.
                      >
                      > I use the lathe in my shop now, but I would like to bring it into the
                      > house and use it in a small bedroom. Cutting down the motor noise
                      > would be a big benefit.
                      >
                      > Not sure what to look for. Thought someone out there has done the same
                      > thing, and I can benefit from their experience.
                      >
                      > Thanks, CKA
                      >

                      ---------------------------------
                      Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                      __________ NOD32 2763 (20080103) Information __________

                      This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
                      http://www.eset.com


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Paul W. Chamberlain
                      Hi Charles, You may fair better stopping by your local Radio Shack. It sounds like you will need a Single Pole, Single Throw (SPST) switch for the hot wire
                      Message 10 of 24 , Jan 3, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hi Charles,

                        You may fair better stopping by your local Radio Shack.

                        It sounds like you will need a Single Pole, Single Throw (SPST)
                        switch for the hot wire (black) for your power in cord.

                        A Double Pole, Double Throw, Center Off (DPDT-CO) switch, only if you
                        want to wire it for reverse (with caution about unscrewing the chuck
                        under power in reverse).

                        Usually the potentiometer (Pot) is a 5K value, and you'll have to buy
                        a knob that fits its shaft.

                        A panel mount fuse holder, and a package of 3 to 5 amp fuses
                        (instructions for the controller board should specify).

                        A package of stand-offs would be handy for mounting the controller
                        board. And a package of mounting fasteners, unless you already have a
                        nice collection.

                        A spool of wire the same gage as the other wiring present. And one of
                        those crimp connector kits with crimping tool would be handy.

                        Either grommets or snap-in plastic cable clamps for the in and out
                        power cords.

                        And you will need what is called a "Project Box" to put all those
                        parts together in a swarf proof container. You will need the
                        controller board dimensions plus room for the switch(s), pot and fuse
                        holder backsides and various wiring, to get the size project box
                        needed.

                        Hope this helps...

                        Paul, Central OR
                        http://MiniMechanicals.com

                        *****

                        --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "Ackerman Pens" <charles@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi, Todd -
                        >
                        > Thanks for the clarification. Since I am electricity-dumb, can I
                        get all the things you mention at the Surplus Center, or ask them to
                        package whatever else I need?
                        >
                        > Thanks, Charles Ackerman
                        >
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: J. Todd Shultz
                        > To: taigtools@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 8:49 AM
                        > Subject: Re: [taigtools] Re: motor options for Taig lathe
                        >
                        >
                        > Bob, it cost you more than that... Switches, potentiometer,
                        cords, wiring, something to mount it in etc...
                        >
                        > bob_ledoux <bobledoux@...> wrote: Try my variable speed drive. My
                        cost was $37. The motor is the
                        > Surplus Center model 10-1023 for $6.95, and the drive is their 11-
                        2449
                        > for $29.95. It gives me a range of 5 (five) rpm to 7,000 rpm. The
                        > motor has a 12mm drive shaft so it requires a special pully
                        setup.
                        >
                        > --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "ackermanpens" <charles@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > I'm looking for a smaller motor for my Taig lathe. I just turn
                        > > plastic, so I don't need a lot of power, but I turn a lot of
                        plastic,
                        > > so a quieter motor would be preferred.
                        > >
                        > > Pardon if this question has already been answered. I did a
                        search for
                        > > "motor" on this user group, and came up with over 5,000 hits.
                        I'm
                        > > hoping someone can provide a quicker answer.
                        > >
                        > > I use the lathe in my shop now, but I would like to bring it
                        into the
                        > > house and use it in a small bedroom. Cutting down the motor
                        noise
                        > > would be a big benefit.
                        > >
                        > > Not sure what to look for. Thought someone out there has done
                        the same
                        > > thing, and I can benefit from their experience.
                        > >
                        > > Thanks, CKA
                        > >
                        >
                        > ---------------------------------
                        > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with
                        Yahoo! Search.
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > __________ NOD32 2763 (20080103) Information __________
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                      • J. Todd Shultz
                        Charles, The drive unit that was previously mentioned is actually a power supply (the wiring diagram comes with the unit) which requires a 5k potentiometer
                        Message 11 of 24 , Jan 3, 2008
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                          Charles,

                          The "drive unit" that was previously mentioned is actually a power supply (the wiring diagram comes with the unit) which requires a 5k potentiometer to operate the variable speed control, a power on/off switch, and a double pole - double throw switch for forward / reverse rotation. There is another option if you just want full power (simple on/off). That motor will operate off a rectifier which converts 110 AC into 110 DC. That is also available at most eletronics supplys like Radio Shack. I'm not sure if Surplus Center has them but you might check.

                          Ackerman Pens <charles@...> wrote:
                          Hi, Todd -

                          Thanks for the clarification. Since I am electricity-dumb, can I get all the things you mention at the Surplus Center, or ask them to package whatever else I need?

                          Thanks, Charles Ackerman

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: J. Todd Shultz
                          To: taigtools@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 8:49 AM
                          Subject: Re: [taigtools] Re: motor options for Taig lathe

                          Bob, it cost you more than that... Switches, potentiometer, cords, wiring, something to mount it in etc...

                          bob_ledoux <bobledoux@...> wrote: Try my variable speed drive. My cost was $37. The motor is the
                          Surplus Center model 10-1023 for $6.95, and the drive is their 11-2449
                          for $29.95. It gives me a range of 5 (five) rpm to 7,000 rpm. The
                          motor has a 12mm drive shaft so it requires a special pully setup.

                          --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "ackermanpens" <charles@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I'm looking for a smaller motor for my Taig lathe. I just turn
                          > plastic, so I don't need a lot of power, but I turn a lot of plastic,
                          > so a quieter motor would be preferred.
                          >
                          > Pardon if this question has already been answered. I did a search for
                          > "motor" on this user group, and came up with over 5,000 hits. I'm
                          > hoping someone can provide a quicker answer.
                          >
                          > I use the lathe in my shop now, but I would like to bring it into the
                          > house and use it in a small bedroom. Cutting down the motor noise
                          > would be a big benefit.
                          >
                          > Not sure what to look for. Thought someone out there has done the same
                          > thing, and I can benefit from their experience.
                          >
                          > Thanks, CKA
                          >

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                        • Bertho Boman
                          Thanks Paul & Michael. I guess I was a little optimistic that the software would do it automatically or have a built in function but for the price I paid for
                          Message 12 of 24 , Jan 3, 2008
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                            Thanks Paul & Michael.

                            I guess I was a little optimistic that the software would do it
                            automatically or have a built in function but for the price I paid for the
                            LazyCAM Pro I cannot complain.



                            I ended up doing what I suspected as a workaround: Generate two programs in
                            LazyCAM one with an oversized cutter definition for the rough cut and then
                            the correct definition for the finish cut and climb milling. I then
                            manually merged the two files and tweaked the code a little bit.



                            I found an option under pockets in LazyCAM for finishing and it sounds
                            promising but I found no details on it and it did not seem to work.



                            At Paul's suggestion I bought CutViewer and that is a big timesaver.

                            Bertho



                            From: taigtools@yahoogroups.com [mailto:taigtools@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                            Of Michael Fagan
                            Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 13:35
                            To: taigtools@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [taigtools] Cleanup cut on CNC mill



                            The higher end CAM programs such as MasterCAM, SurfCAM, and FeatureCAM all
                            have separate panels for roughing and finishing cuts. Since most large CNC
                            machines use separate tools for roughing and finishing, it allows you to
                            specify that too, as well as different feed rates, cutting strategies (like
                            climb or conventional milling), depths of cut, and cut overlap.
                            When programming my own cnc Taig, I usually use a g-code generation utility
                            that one of my friends wrote for me. It allows me to select a number of
                            different situations (circle, rectangle, arbitrary polygon) and then an
                            operation, such as pocketing the entire shape or simply taking a cut along
                            the line (we called it windowing). I will run the pocketing operation with
                            the dimensions of the shape matching the desired roughing pass. Then I run
                            the windowing op at the finish dimensions, taking a cut around the
                            periphery. Both ops can be configured to run in one or multiple depth
                            passes, depending on the mat'l, size, etc. I tend to peck the pocketing op
                            and run the windowing at full depth, 0.005"-0.010" left on the dimensions
                            for the finishing pass.

                            On Dec 31, 2007 10:44 PM, Bertho Boman <boman01@...
                            <mailto:boman01%40vinland.com> > wrote:

                            > After all these discussions about cutting depth and feeds, I have a work
                            > flow related question.
                            >
                            > How is a cleanup cut efficiently created?
                            >
                            > I use LazyCAM Pro to generate the tool path, let's just pretend a big
                            > keyhole that goes all the way through the material. After several passes
                            > it
                            > is done but I would like it to be slightly undersized and then do a final
                            > cut to dimension.
                            >
                            > I could lie to LazyCAM and tell it my cutter was slightly bigger and run
                            > the
                            > program once and then change to the correct cutter size and generate a
                            > second version. Running the second version as it is would waste a lot of
                            > time since it would take many passes trying to get through the material
                            > since it thinks it is cutting all the way through again or I could set
                            > depth
                            > per cut to more than the material thickness or I could manually edit the G
                            > code to strip out the early passes.
                            >
                            > There got to be a simpler more efficient way! Suggestions?
                            >
                            > Happy New Year!
                            >
                            > Bertho
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >

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                          • bob_ledoux
                            You are correct. The $37 cost is only for the motor and controller. I was assuming the average lathe user had a junk box with things like wire, switches, etc.
                            Message 13 of 24 , Jan 4, 2008
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                              You are correct. The $37 cost is only for the motor and controller.

                              I was assuming the average lathe user had a junk box with things like
                              wire, switches, etc.

                              That motor can be run using a full wave bridge rectifier using
                              household current. Surplus Center sells one. However the motor would
                              only run at full rpm (about 10,000 rpm) unless the input voltage was
                              controlled by a variac or other means.

                              Also realize that the variac would not provide full power at low
                              rpm's. To get that you need a pulse width modulated controller (PWM)
                              like the 11-2449. Using that controller I get full power torque at 5 rpm.

                              My mount is a piece of aluminum sheet bent in a "U". Two assembly
                              bolts in the motor pass through the aluminum. The controller requires
                              a 5Kohm variable resistor, a power cord and a short piece of wire for
                              hookup. The controller requires a cover of some type to keep swarf
                              out of the innerds (no electrical shorts). The controller has a high
                              wattage ceramic resistor that should not be tightly enclosed.

                              I have been turning 1 inch steel rod with my lathe and have found no
                              overheating issues. So I don't think a cooling fan is needed.

                              If you go this route there is no need to buy the pair of drive
                              pulleys. However you must make your own pulleys. The motor pulley
                              requires a 12mm bore with the belt groove. The lathe pulley requires
                              a 5/8 inch bore. As the lathe headstock is rated for 7000 rpm I would
                              use a 1 inch aluminum rod for the motor pulley and a 1.5 inch stock
                              for the lathe pulley. A single groove in each pulley is sufficient.

                              There is one downside to this controller: It must start from a low
                              rpm setting on the variable resistor. (The treadmill controller was
                              designed to prevent someone from turning the machine on at a suddenly
                              high speed.) This means the controller is always pulling power, while
                              in the "stop" position, unless power is physically switched off into
                              the controller. It also means the controller ramps the speed down
                              over the period of a couple of seconds when you turn the speed control
                              to "stop."

                              This "slow speed stop" might be an issue for some applications where
                              the lathe motor must be repeatedly stopped and started.

                              -----------------------------

                              --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "J. Todd Shultz" <j.toddshultz@...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > Bob, it cost you more than that... Switches, potentiometer, cords,
                              wiring, something to mount it in etc...

                              -----------------------------
                              >
                              > bob_ledoux <bobledoux@...> wrote: Try my variable speed
                              drive. My cost was $37. The motor is the
                              > Surplus Center model 10-1023 for $6.95, and the drive is their 11-2449
                              > for $29.95. It gives me a range of 5 (five) rpm to 7,000 rpm. The
                              > motor has a 12mm drive shaft so it requires a special pully setup.
                            • Paul W. Chamberlain
                              The Sieg machines (7x12 lathes,Mini-Mill, etc.) have both the pot and a power switch. That would probably be the best setup for the controller described below.
                              Message 14 of 24 , Jan 4, 2008
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                                The Sieg machines (7x12 lathes,Mini-Mill, etc.) have both the pot and a
                                power switch. That would probably be the best setup for the controller
                                described below.

                                The Sieg controllers also have a "brake" function for very quick slow
                                down.

                                Paul, Central OR
                                http://MiniMechanicals.com

                                *****

                                <snip>
                                > There is one downside to this controller: It must start from a low
                                > rpm setting on the variable resistor. (The treadmill controller was
                                > designed to prevent someone from turning the machine on at a suddenly
                                > high speed.) This means the controller is always pulling power, while
                                > in the "stop" position, unless power is physically switched off into
                                > the controller. It also means the controller ramps the speed down
                                > over the period of a couple of seconds when you turn the speed control
                                > to "stop."
                                >
                                > This "slow speed stop" might be an issue for some applications where
                                > the lathe motor must be repeatedly stopped and started.
                              • Neil Savage
                                That motor is 10,000 rpm if you run it off a rectifier alone. Seems a trifle excessive for a lathe? Neil Savage [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                Message 15 of 24 , Jan 4, 2008
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                                  That motor is 10,000 rpm if you run it off a rectifier alone. Seems a trifle excessive for a lathe? Neil Savage

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Paul W. Chamberlain
                                  The Taig pulleys, and the intended speeds for the lathe (525, 825, 1300, 2100, 3350 & 5300), are based on a 1750 RPM AC motor. Paul, Central OR
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Jan 4, 2008
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                                    The Taig pulleys, and the intended speeds for the lathe (525, 825,
                                    1300, 2100, 3350 & 5300), are based on a 1750 RPM AC motor.

                                    Paul, Central OR
                                    http://MiniMechanicals.com

                                    *****

                                    --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "Neil Savage" <alzark@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > That motor is 10,000 rpm if you run it off a rectifier alone. Seems
                                    a trifle excessive for a lathe? Neil Savage
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
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