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New to machining, Taig?

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  • justinreeves16
    Hello, I am new to the art of machining I have been looking at the small lathes on the market and was referred to the Taig. The project I am using it for is a
    Message 1 of 15 , May 1, 2007
      Hello, I am new to the art of machining
      I have been looking at the small lathes on the market
      and was referred to the Taig.

      The project I am using it for is a dental handpiece
      it will run on a micro cylinder .3 to .7"

      I will need to make the head(centered in round stock or bar.
      and off centered drilled and threaded holes for mounting, on both
      sides of the project.

      Do you think the Taig has the precision and the tooling available to
      do this type of project?

      If so will I also need a mill to drill and tap the off centered bolt
      holes(similar to the head on a single cylinder gas motor head)?

      Thank you.
    • jim matheson
      ... That sounds do-able, you will just need a 4 jaw chuck for the off center drilling. you know if you start this you might never escape though, right?
      Message 2 of 15 , May 1, 2007
        justinreeves16 wrote:

        >Hello, I am new to the art of machining
        >I have been looking at the small lathes on the market
        >and was referred to the Taig.
        >
        >The project I am using it for is a dental handpiece
        >it will run on a micro cylinder .3 to .7"
        >
        >I will need to make the head(centered in round stock or bar.
        >and off centered drilled and threaded holes for mounting, on both
        >sides of the project.
        >
        >Do you think the Taig has the precision and the tooling available to
        >do this type of project?
        >
        >If so will I also need a mill to drill and tap the off centered bolt
        >holes(similar to the head on a single cylinder gas motor head)?
        >
        >Thank you.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        That sounds do-able, you will just need a 4 jaw chuck for the off center
        drilling.
        you know if you start this you might never escape though, right?
      • David Robertson
        Justin.. welcome... Just a comment... the machine itself is capable of great accuracy with a properly skilled operator. Accuracy is more a function of the
        Message 3 of 15 , May 1, 2007
          Justin.. welcome...

          Just a comment... the machine itself is capable of great accuracy with a
          properly skilled operator. Accuracy is more a function of the person
          running the machine than the machine itself. Notice I didn't say "the
          machine doesn't matter".. it does.. but the Taig is up to the task.

          As you explore your project you need to be asking as many questions
          about technique for achieving accuracy as about which tools to use..

          David

          justinreeves16 wrote:
          >
          > ..snip...
          >
          > Do you think the Taig has the precision and the tooling available to
          > do this type of project?
          >
          > If so will I also need a mill to drill and tap the off centered bolt
          > holes(similar to the head on a single cylinder gas motor head)?
          >
          > Thank you.
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • justin reeves
          OK now I know the machine is capable for the project, The only thing I noticed between the Taig and the Sherline with my minimal knowledge of lathes was that
          Message 4 of 15 , May 1, 2007
            OK now I know the machine is capable for the project,
            The only thing I noticed between the Taig and the Sherline with my "minimal" knowledge of lathes was that the Taig doesn't do threading, correct.

            I will have to make a needle valve, will using tap and die work for doing something like this, or as always your recommendations for threading a piece at the rear of its length.

            Also the cylinder, and the head bore need to be as smooth as possible what technique and tools do you recommend, I am hoping to use stainless steel, mainly due to internal wear of the cylinder and a internal sliding valve system.
            And it being Autoclavable without corrosion.

            I have seen a lot of devices like this have Bronze bushings, any opinions on a different material for the head and cylinder, or even for the sliding valve?


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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • benedict-list@hawaii.rr.com
            ... .7 is well within the capability of the Taig for most materials. Judging from the handpieces I ve got I m guessing you re talking about aluminum. If
            Message 5 of 15 , May 1, 2007
              On Tue, 1 May 2007, justinreeves16 wrote:

              > Hello, I am new to the art of machining I have been looking at the small
              > lathes on the market and was referred to the Taig.
              >
              > The project I am using it for is a dental handpiece it will run on a
              > micro cylinder .3 to .7"

              .7" is well within the capability of the Taig for most materials. Judging
              from the handpieces I've got I'm guessing you're talking about aluminum.
              If you're thinking about another material, let us know.

              > I will need to make the head(centered in round stock or bar. and off
              > centered drilled and threaded holes for mounting, on both sides of the
              > project.

              Straightforward turning should be no problem. A bolt hole pattern is also
              doable. Lots of ways to go about it. I'll go into two ways I might
              tackle it in a sec.

              > Do you think the Taig has the precision and the tooling available to do
              > this type of project?

              Yep!

              > If so will I also need a mill to drill and tap the off centered bolt
              > holes(similar to the head on a single cylinder gas motor head)?

              Probably not, but it depends.

              The chucks on the Taig can easily take a 1" diameter piece of stock. But
              it'll butt up against the face of the chuck. It won't fit down the
              spindle. This is fine for the outside turning (put the part between
              centers and you're guaranteed to have a part concentric to the center
              holes you drilled at either end.

              The bolt hole circle might be a more interesting project. I'm guessing
              you mean to put these at one end of a long piece? (Correct me if I'm
              wrong).

              The big catch with this is that you'll have a lot of overhang. If
              precision is of the utmost, it's going to be a tough setup to do using a
              four jaw and offsetting the part. (I'm not knocking the technique, mind
              you. This is how I did all the drill work on my first steam engine! But
              my parts were a lot shorter than a dental handpiece.)

              Another way to do this would be to leave it between centers and use some
              sort of an index plate. Nick Carter used to sell index plates, and may
              still do so (I hope he does... I love mine.) It had 60 holes in it, so
              you could do any factor of 60 for indexing. If you have a Foredom,
              Dremel, or some other rotary tool you can stick on the cross-slide, you
              can use it as an auxiliary drilling spindle and drill your bolt hole
              circle while indexing the part with the lathe headstock. This takes care
              of overhang, but the clearance between the auxiliary spindle and the
              tailstock may be an issue.

              Another way to do this would be to take the headstock off your lathe,
              mount it vertically on a drill press, and do the indexing that way. It'd
              be more prone to flexure, harder to set up, etc., but it's another way to
              tackle the problem.

              Another way to do this would be to make a drill jig. Take a flattish
              piece of oversized stock, bore out a pocket that'd be a snug slip fit over
              the end of your handpiece, and put your bolt hole circle in that using the
              same indexing setup. When you finish the work on your handpiece, slip the
              drill jig over the end and secure it (I'm hand-waving at this point
              because I don't know the details of your design). Drill through the holes
              in the drill jig, and you get your bolt hole circle in the end of your
              handpiece.

              If you can't find an indexing plate and don't feel like making one, this
              can also be done using trigonometry. Get the vertical milling slide and
              mount the stub of material for your drill jig on this. Find the center of
              the material and call that (0,0). Work out the X,Y coordinates of each of
              your holes, and drill using the lathe headstock and drill chuck adapter.
              With drill jig in hand, finish up the same way as the last technique.

              Lotsa possibilities. But yeah, the Taig should be able to do it.

              Tom
            • justin reeves
              Im hoping to use stainlaess. the piece will not be that long, it is different from a standard piece. here is a reference to size and workings and materials.
              Message 6 of 15 , May 1, 2007
                Im hoping to use stainlaess.

                the piece will not be that long, it is different from a standard piece.
                here is a reference to size and workings and materials.

                http://www.airgraver.com/index1.htm

                There will only be 4 bolts.

                benedict-list@... wrote: On Tue, 1 May 2007, justinreeves16 wrote:

                > Hello, I am new to the art of machining I have been looking at the small
                > lathes on the market and was referred to the Taig.
                >
                > The project I am using it for is a dental handpiece it will run on a
                > micro cylinder .3 to .7"

                .7" is well within the capability of the Taig for most materials. Judging
                from the handpieces I've got I'm guessing you're talking about aluminum.
                If you're thinking about another material, let us know.

                > I will need to make the head(centered in round stock or bar. and off
                > centered drilled and threaded holes for mounting, on both sides of the
                > project.

                Straightforward turning should be no problem. A bolt hole pattern is also
                doable. Lots of ways to go about it. I'll go into two ways I might
                tackle it in a sec.

                > Do you think the Taig has the precision and the tooling available to do
                > this type of project?

                Yep!

                > If so will I also need a mill to drill and tap the off centered bolt
                > holes(similar to the head on a single cylinder gas motor head)?

                Probably not, but it depends.

                The chucks on the Taig can easily take a 1" diameter piece of stock. But
                it'll butt up against the face of the chuck. It won't fit down the
                spindle. This is fine for the outside turning (put the part between
                centers and you're guaranteed to have a part concentric to the center
                holes you drilled at either end.

                The bolt hole circle might be a more interesting project. I'm guessing
                you mean to put these at one end of a long piece? (Correct me if I'm
                wrong).

                The big catch with this is that you'll have a lot of overhang. If
                precision is of the utmost, it's going to be a tough setup to do using a
                four jaw and offsetting the part. (I'm not knocking the technique, mind
                you. This is how I did all the drill work on my first steam engine! But
                my parts were a lot shorter than a dental handpiece.)

                Another way to do this would be to leave it between centers and use some
                sort of an index plate. Nick Carter used to sell index plates, and may
                still do so (I hope he does... I love mine.) It had 60 holes in it, so
                you could do any factor of 60 for indexing. If you have a Foredom,
                Dremel, or some other rotary tool you can stick on the cross-slide, you
                can use it as an auxiliary drilling spindle and drill your bolt hole
                circle while indexing the part with the lathe headstock. This takes care
                of overhang, but the clearance between the auxiliary spindle and the
                tailstock may be an issue.

                Another way to do this would be to take the headstock off your lathe,
                mount it vertically on a drill press, and do the indexing that way. It'd
                be more prone to flexure, harder to set up, etc., but it's another way to
                tackle the problem.

                Another way to do this would be to make a drill jig. Take a flattish
                piece of oversized stock, bore out a pocket that'd be a snug slip fit over
                the end of your handpiece, and put your bolt hole circle in that using the
                same indexing setup. When you finish the work on your handpiece, slip the
                drill jig over the end and secure it (I'm hand-waving at this point
                because I don't know the details of your design). Drill through the holes
                in the drill jig, and you get your bolt hole circle in the end of your
                handpiece.

                If you can't find an indexing plate and don't feel like making one, this
                can also be done using trigonometry. Get the vertical milling slide and
                mount the stub of material for your drill jig on this. Find the center of
                the material and call that (0,0). Work out the X,Y coordinates of each of
                your holes, and drill using the lathe headstock and drill chuck adapter.
                With drill jig in hand, finish up the same way as the last technique.

                Lotsa possibilities. But yeah, the Taig should be able to do it.

                Tom






                ---------------------------------
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              • Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein
                ... Well, it was a different sort of project, but I just machined a 316 stainless steel ring with a bore of .786
                Message 7 of 15 , May 1, 2007
                  > Im hoping to use stainlaess.
                  > The project I am using it for is a dental handpiece it will run on a
                  > > micro cylinder .3 to .7"
                  Well, it was a different sort of project, but I just machined a 316
                  stainless steel ring with a bore of .786
                  http://mechanicalphilosopher.blogspot.com/2007/04/machining-stainless-steel-ring.html
                  (this is part of a series of experiments that will be boiled down into a
                  general Taig jewelry webpage btw)


                  > Nick Carter used to sell index plates, and may
                  > still do so (I hope he does... I love mine.)
                  I still do!
                  http://www.cartertools.com/cipk.html





                  --
                  felice@... is Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein. See our
                  homepage at www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html
                • benedict-list@hawaii.rr.com
                  ... That s more or less dead-on. The tailstocks are different as well. Taig uses a lever headstock, which is great for getting in and out of a hole quickly.
                  Message 8 of 15 , May 2, 2007
                    On Tue, 1 May 2007, justin reeves wrote:

                    > OK now I know the machine is capable for the project,
                    > The only thing I noticed between the Taig and the Sherline with my
                    > "minimal" knowledge of lathes was that the Taig doesn't do threading,
                    > correct.

                    That's more or less dead-on. The tailstocks are different as well. Taig
                    uses a lever headstock, which is great for getting in and out of a hole
                    quickly. The Sherline tailstock is a leadscrew-type. Slower for deep
                    holes, but from what Jerry Kieffer has said it'll do things with small
                    holes that the Taig tailstock won't. I've tried to replicate some of his
                    stuff on a Taig, and after snapping several very small drills I have to
                    agree.

                    > I will have to make a needle valve, will using tap and die work for
                    > doing something like this, or as always your recommendations for
                    > threading a piece at the rear of its length.

                    Tap and die would work fine. There are thread cutting options for the
                    Taig, but not right out of the box. You'd either have to roll your own or
                    get a third-party system. Nick Carter has at least one review on his web
                    site.

                    > Also the cylinder, and the head bore need to be as smooth as possible
                    > what technique and tools do you recommend.

                    My knee-jerk reaction would be reaming and lapping.

                    > I am hoping to use stainless steel, mainly due to internal wear of the
                    > cylinder and a internal sliding valve system. And it being Autoclavable
                    > without corrosion.

                    Makes good sense. Looking at the URL for the Lindsay AirGraver, I think
                    the size you're talking about is within reach on the Taig, even in
                    stainless.

                    > I have seen a lot of devices like this have Bronze bushings, any
                    > opinions on a different material for the head and cylinder, or even for
                    > the sliding valve?

                    Bronze is nice because it's hard as a rock and wears well with steel. As
                    far as autoclavability goes, I really can't say. There are ceramics you
                    can get, but I have zip zero experience with them. We used this funky
                    specialty plastic for a project at work, but I doubt if it's
                    operating-room-ready.

                    Neat project!

                    Tom
                  • Leon
                    ... From: To: Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 8:10 AM Subject: Re: [taigtools] New to machining, Taig?
                    Message 9 of 15 , May 2, 2007
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: <benedict-list@...>
                      To: <taigtools@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 8:10 AM
                      Subject: Re: [taigtools] New to machining, Taig?


                      > On Tue, 1 May 2007, justin reeves wrote:
                      >
                      >> OK now I know the machine is capable for the project,
                      >> The only thing I noticed between the Taig and the Sherline with my
                      >> "minimal" knowledge of lathes was that the Taig doesn't do threading,
                      >> correct.
                      >
                      > That's more or less dead-on. The tailstocks are different as well. Taig
                      > uses a lever headstock, which is great for getting in and out of a hole
                      > quickly. The Sherline tailstock is a leadscrew-type. Slower for deep
                      > holes, but from what Jerry Kieffer has said it'll do things with small
                      > holes that the Taig tailstock won't. I've tried to replicate some of his
                      > stuff on a Taig, and after snapping several very small drills I have to
                      > agree.

                      I just had what seems to be a good idea! How about making some sort of
                      adapter to hold a chuck on the carriage, or the milling attachment, for very
                      small drills?

                      Leon
                      --
                      Leon Heller
                      Amateur radio call-sign G1HSM
                      Yaesu FT-817ND and FT-857D transceivers
                      Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
                      leon355@...
                      http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller
                    • justin reeves
                      Forgive my newbie answer, why doesnt Taig or a 3rd parts cast and machine a leadscrew tailstock, the cost would be minimal. Leon
                      Message 10 of 15 , May 2, 2007
                        Forgive my newbie answer, why doesnt Taig or a 3rd parts cast and machine a
                        leadscrew tailstock, the cost would be minimal.

                        Leon <leon355@...> wrote: ----- Original Message -----
                        From: <benedict-list@...>
                        To: <taigtools@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 8:10 AM
                        Subject: Re: [taigtools] New to machining, Taig?

                        > On Tue, 1 May 2007, justin reeves wrote:
                        >
                        >> OK now I know the machine is capable for the project,
                        >> The only thing I noticed between the Taig and the Sherline with my
                        >> "minimal" knowledge of lathes was that the Taig doesn't do threading,
                        >> correct.
                        >
                        > That's more or less dead-on. The tailstocks are different as well. Taig
                        > uses a lever headstock, which is great for getting in and out of a hole
                        > quickly. The Sherline tailstock is a leadscrew-type. Slower for deep
                        > holes, but from what Jerry Kieffer has said it'll do things with small
                        > holes that the Taig tailstock won't. I've tried to replicate some of his
                        > stuff on a Taig, and after snapping several very small drills I have to
                        > agree.

                        I just had what seems to be a good idea! How about making some sort of
                        adapter to hold a chuck on the carriage, or the milling attachment, for very
                        small drills?

                        Leon
                        --
                        Leon Heller
                        Amateur radio call-sign G1HSM
                        Yaesu FT-817ND and FT-857D transceivers
                        Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
                        leon355@...
                        http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller






                        ---------------------------------
                        Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
                        Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.

                        ---------------------------------
                        Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
                        Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • n2562001
                        ... sort of ... attachment, for very ... Leon I have a very early Taig Lathe in my collection that has no tailstock by design with a drill chuck mounted to the
                        Message 11 of 15 , May 2, 2007
                          --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "Leon" <leon355@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > I just had what seems to be a good idea! How about making some
                          sort of
                          > adapter to hold a chuck on the carriage, or the milling
                          attachment, for very
                          > small drills?
                          >
                          > Leon
                          > --

                          Leon
                          I have a very early Taig Lathe in my collection that has no
                          tailstock by design with a drill chuck mounted to the tool post for
                          drilling. It seems to me that some other Older small lathes may
                          have used this design but I can`t remember for sure. At any rate
                          at first it seems like a clever money saving design but has a number
                          of issues in use. First it is real pain and very time consuming to
                          try to align a chuck in three directions every time it is to be
                          used. Second it is not near as accurate as one might think. All
                          carriage and cross slides in all brands are designed to be accurate
                          and repeatable with downward pressure on the lathe tool.
                          If the gibbs are adjusted for free movement there will be some
                          slight upward movement of the assembly if pressure is applied to do
                          so, such as drilling and even just movement of the assembly
                          itsself. While certainly not enough to be concerned about for
                          general drilling or machining with a milling slide it can easily
                          effect critical alignment for micro drilling. Adjusting gibbs to
                          eliminate this possibility to protect expensive drills and tooling
                          each time used gets old fast. As mentioned in the past for one
                          time uses micro drilling on a Taig lathe is possible with proper
                          setup. The Tailstock needs to be clamped into posion and not moved
                          for each setup. Then adjust the Ram for free movement and heavily
                          and thoroughly lubricate it with motor oil to center it in the
                          tailstock. Next center drill and drill a piece of stock held in
                          the tailstock drill chuck to the same size as the micro drill
                          shank. Install the drill in the hole for drilling. Next remove the
                          tailstock lever that is not sensitive enough for micro drilling and
                          operate the Ram with your fingers. While not an ideal setup it
                          will work in most cases for that one time need.

                          Jerry Kieffer
                        • James Eckman
                          ... I don t know about cost, but I prefer the lever action tailstock over a screw type for this size lathe! Easy enough to add a stop if need be, just get a
                          Message 12 of 15 , May 3, 2007
                            > Posted by: "justin reeves"
                            >
                            > Forgive my newbie answer, why doesnt Taig or a 3rd parts cast and machine a
                            > leadscrew tailstock, the cost would be minimal.

                            I don't know about cost, but I prefer the lever action tailstock over a
                            screw type for this size lathe! Easy enough to add a stop if need be,
                            just get a 1/2" drill collar and put it on the end of the 1/2" end
                            section. If properly adjusted and oiled it's great for small drills.

                            I have to admit that I've always used the lever, but Jerry works on much
                            finer stuff than I do. It would be easy to put a guard/handle behind the
                            drill chuck for this operation.

                            You can can also make your own extra long centers if need be with the
                            Taig setup.

                            Jim Eckman
                          • TURNOUT
                            Hi, I am setting up a Taig milling machine and see reference to a breakout board to protect the computer. Who makes these and are there any recommendations?
                            Message 13 of 15 , May 28, 2007
                              Hi,
                              I am setting up a Taig milling machine and see reference to a breakout board
                              to protect the computer. Who makes these and are there any recommendations?

                              Thanks Ken - NZ
                            • Wally and Otter
                              These are all suppliers I looked at when setting up my CNC Taig. I know there are others but these are the ones I had bookmarked. For what it s worth, I
                              Message 14 of 15 , May 28, 2007
                                These are all suppliers I looked at when setting up my CNC Taig. I
                                know there are others but these are the ones I had bookmarked. For
                                what it's worth, I ended up going with the PMDX-131 with Gecko drives
                                and have not regretted it. Many people are also quite happy with the
                                Xylotex setup. An internet search should turn up other suppliers if
                                you don't see anything you like here.

                                http://www.campbelldesigns.com/index.php

                                http://www.candcnc.com/

                                http://www.pmdx.com/

                                http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/

                                http://www.winfordeng.com/

                                http://www.xylotex.com/

                                http://homanndesigns.com/store/index.php?main_page=index

                                Have fun!

                                Steve
                                --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, TURNOUT <k-m-c@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Hi,
                                > I am setting up a Taig milling machine and see reference to a
                                breakout board
                                > to protect the computer. Who makes these and are there any
                                recommendations?
                                >
                                > Thanks Ken - NZ
                                >
                              • eferg2001
                                I also have a PMDX board and Gecko drives. A couple of nice things about the PMDX board: It has two relays to control the spindle and coolant. It has a
                                Message 15 of 15 , May 29, 2007
                                  I also have a PMDX board and Gecko drives.

                                  A couple of nice things about the PMDX board:

                                  It has two relays to control the spindle and coolant.

                                  It has a built-in step generator so you can test your motors and
                                  cables without a PC. Makes troubleshooting easier when you can
                                  eliminate the PC and software as an issue.

                                  There are less expensive alternatives. But I use my system every day
                                  and never had a problem.

                                  Ed
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