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Tool grinding

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  • prettejohn
    Hi All Anybody care to offer some insite into tool grinding for Phosphor Bronze turning. It sure seems tough to a newbee. regards Alan UK
    Message 1 of 7 , Apr 1, 2007
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      Hi All

      Anybody care to offer some insite into tool grinding for Phosphor Bronze
      turning. It sure seems tough to a newbee.

      regards

      Alan UK
    • Paul W. Chamberlain
      I would say start with a 0 top rake, the same as brass. Then try increasing top rake until you develop a chip or curl without digging in. Brass tends to pull
      Message 2 of 7 , Apr 1, 2007
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        I would say start with a 0 top rake, the same as brass. Then try
        increasing top rake until you develop a chip or curl without digging in.

        Brass tends to pull the tool in when there is a top angle relief...
        same for drill bits with normal cutting edges. Brass likes a shearing
        action, rather than cutting under the "skin".

        Depending on the composition of your Phosphor Bronze, it may have
        cutting characteristics closer to steel. I just made some parts from a
        salvage "brass" shaft. The same part/cutter with 360 brass makes grains
        like cornmeal. This salvage "brass" streamed off curls like steel, and
        produced quite a bit of heat and squealing... so I presume it is bronze
        or some maleable alloy of brass.

        There is a free machining Phosphor Bronze available over here:

        http://www.smallparts.com/products/descriptions/zrph.cfm

        Not directly related, but I found this interesting attachment at an
        Autralian vendor:

        http://www.timbecon.com.au/assets/popup/productimages.aspx?
        ProductID=10032

        Paul, Central OR

        *****

        --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "prettejohn" <alan.prettejohn@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Hi All
        >
        > Anybody care to offer some insite into tool grinding for Phosphor
        Bronze
        > turning. It sure seems tough to a newbee.
        >
        > regards
        >
        > Alan UK
        >
      • prettejohn
        Hi Paul Thanks Brass cuts fine even with standard taig tools which have quite a rake angle but the PB1 just bounces. Yes, I know about Colphos but the metal
        Message 3 of 7 , Apr 1, 2007
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          Hi Paul
          Thanks

          Brass cuts fine even with standard taig tools which have quite a rake angle
          but the PB1 just bounces. Yes, I know about Colphos but the metal store only
          had PB1 :-(

          regards

          Alan UK

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Paul W. Chamberlain" <pwc@...>
          To: <taigtools@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 7:17 PM
          Subject: [taigtools] Re: Tool grinding


          > I would say start with a 0 top rake, the same as brass. Then try
          > increasing top rake until you develop a chip or curl without digging in.
          >
          > Brass tends to pull the tool in when there is a top angle relief...
          > same for drill bits with normal cutting edges. Brass likes a shearing
          > action, rather than cutting under the "skin".
          >
          > Depending on the composition of your Phosphor Bronze, it may have
          > cutting characteristics closer to steel. I just made some parts from a
          > salvage "brass" shaft. The same part/cutter with 360 brass makes grains
          > like cornmeal. This salvage "brass" streamed off curls like steel, and
          > produced quite a bit of heat and squealing... so I presume it is bronze
          > or some maleable alloy of brass.
          >
          > There is a free machining Phosphor Bronze available over here:
          >
          > http://www.smallparts.com/products/descriptions/zrph.cfm
          >
          > Not directly related, but I found this interesting attachment at an
          > Autralian vendor:
          >
          > http://www.timbecon.com.au/assets/popup/productimages.aspx?
          > ProductID=10032
          >
          > Paul, Central OR
          >
          > *****
          >
          > --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "prettejohn" <alan.prettejohn@...>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi All
          > >
          > > Anybody care to offer some insite into tool grinding for Phosphor
          > Bronze
          > > turning. It sure seems tough to a newbee.
          > >
          > > regards
          > >
          > > Alan UK
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > To Post a message, send it to: taigtools@...
          >
          > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: taigtools-unsubscribe@...
          >
          >
          >
          > Let the chips fly!
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
        • Paul W. Chamberlain
          Another thought is your stock may be work hardened from cold drawing. You might try annealing a small chunk by heating to dull red glow... let cool or quench.
          Message 4 of 7 , Apr 1, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Another thought is your stock may be work hardened from cold drawing.
            You might try annealing a small chunk by heating to dull red glow...
            let cool or quench. Then try that sample on your lathe.

            Likewise, cold drawing may have developed a work hardened "skin" that
            you need to get under before making finishing cuts. I have used
            carbide tool bits for that purpose, switching to HSS for finish cuts.

            Stainless Steel also has the work hardening issue to deal with.
            Trying to take "dusting" cuts can develop a hard surface that shows
            the bounce you describe.

            Paul, Central OR

            *****

            --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "prettejohn" <alan.prettejohn@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Hi Paul
            > Thanks
            >
            > Brass cuts fine even with standard taig tools which have quite a
            rake angle
            > but the PB1 just bounces. Yes, I know about Colphos but the metal
            store only
            > had PB1 :-(
            >
            > regards
            >
            > Alan UK
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "Paul W. Chamberlain" <pwc@...>
            > To: <taigtools@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 7:17 PM
            > Subject: [taigtools] Re: Tool grinding
            >
            >
            > > I would say start with a 0 top rake, the same as brass. Then try
            > > increasing top rake until you develop a chip or curl without
            digging in.
            > >
            > > Brass tends to pull the tool in when there is a top angle
            relief...
            > > same for drill bits with normal cutting edges. Brass likes a
            shearing
            > > action, rather than cutting under the "skin".
            > >
            > > Depending on the composition of your Phosphor Bronze, it may have
            > > cutting characteristics closer to steel. I just made some parts
            from a
            > > salvage "brass" shaft. The same part/cutter with 360 brass makes
            grains
            > > like cornmeal. This salvage "brass" streamed off curls like
            steel, and
            > > produced quite a bit of heat and squealing... so I presume it is
            bronze
            > > or some maleable alloy of brass.
            > >
            > > There is a free machining Phosphor Bronze available over here:
            > >
            > > http://www.smallparts.com/products/descriptions/zrph.cfm
            > >
            > > Not directly related, but I found this interesting attachment at
            an
            > > Autralian vendor:
            > >
            > > http://www.timbecon.com.au/assets/popup/productimages.aspx?
            > > ProductID=10032
            > >
            > > Paul, Central OR
            > >
            > > *****
            > >
            > > --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "prettejohn" <alan.prettejohn@>
            > > wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Hi All
            > > >
            > > > Anybody care to offer some insite into tool grinding for
            Phosphor
            > > Bronze
            > > > turning. It sure seems tough to a newbee.
            > > >
            > > > regards
            > > >
            > > > Alan UK
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > To Post a message, send it to: taigtools@...
            > >
            > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: taigtools-unsubscribe@...
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Let the chips fly!
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
          • James Eckman
            ... Veritas in Canada makes one of these as well, check out a high end woodworking store for such goodies. There are also rests intended for machine tool only.
            Message 5 of 7 , Apr 2, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              > Posted by: "Paul W. Chamberlain"
              >
              > Not directly related, but I found this interesting attachment at an
              > Autralian vendor:

              Veritas in Canada makes one of these as well, check out a high end
              woodworking store for such goodies.

              There are also rests intended for machine tool only. I forgot the
              manufacturer though.

              Jim
            • prettejohn
              Hi Paul Problem resolved. PB1 needed low speed, rack to top of tool 8-15 degs, lub helped, fine cut, minimal overhang on tool and chuck. HSS tool bit works
              Message 6 of 7 , Apr 2, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi Paul

                Problem resolved. PB1 needed low speed, rack to top of tool 8-15 degs, lub
                helped, fine cut, minimal overhang on tool and chuck. HSS tool bit works
                fine, finish is pretty good even without using a rounded finishing tool.

                Thaks for your assistance.

                regards

                Alan UK

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Paul W. Chamberlain" <pwc@...>
                To: <taigtools@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 9:34 PM
                Subject: [taigtools] Re: Tool grinding


                > Another thought is your stock may be work hardened from cold drawing.
                > You might try annealing a small chunk by heating to dull red glow...
                > let cool or quench. Then try that sample on your lathe.
                >
                > Likewise, cold drawing may have developed a work hardened "skin" that
                > you need to get under before making finishing cuts. I have used
                > carbide tool bits for that purpose, switching to HSS for finish cuts.
                >
                > Stainless Steel also has the work hardening issue to deal with.
                > Trying to take "dusting" cuts can develop a hard surface that shows
                > the bounce you describe.
                >
                > Paul, Central OR
                >
                > *****
                >
                > --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "prettejohn" <alan.prettejohn@...>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > Hi Paul
                > > Thanks
                > >
                > > Brass cuts fine even with standard taig tools which have quite a
                > rake angle
                > > but the PB1 just bounces. Yes, I know about Colphos but the metal
                > store only
                > > had PB1 :-(
                > >
                > > regards
                > >
                > > Alan UK
                > >
                > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > From: "Paul W. Chamberlain" <pwc@...>
                > > To: <taigtools@yahoogroups.com>
                > > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 7:17 PM
                > > Subject: [taigtools] Re: Tool grinding
                > >
                > >
                > > > I would say start with a 0 top rake, the same as brass. Then try
                > > > increasing top rake until you develop a chip or curl without
                > digging in.
                > > >
                > > > Brass tends to pull the tool in when there is a top angle
                > relief...
                > > > same for drill bits with normal cutting edges. Brass likes a
                > shearing
                > > > action, rather than cutting under the "skin".
                > > >
                > > > Depending on the composition of your Phosphor Bronze, it may have
                > > > cutting characteristics closer to steel. I just made some parts
                > from a
                > > > salvage "brass" shaft. The same part/cutter with 360 brass makes
                > grains
                > > > like cornmeal. This salvage "brass" streamed off curls like
                > steel, and
                > > > produced quite a bit of heat and squealing... so I presume it is
                > bronze
                > > > or some maleable alloy of brass.
                > > >
                > > > There is a free machining Phosphor Bronze available over here:
                > > >
                > > > http://www.smallparts.com/products/descriptions/zrph.cfm
                > > >
                > > > Not directly related, but I found this interesting attachment at
                > an
                > > > Autralian vendor:
                > > >
                > > > http://www.timbecon.com.au/assets/popup/productimages.aspx?
                > > > ProductID=10032
                > > >
                > > > Paul, Central OR
                > > >
                > > > *****
                > > >
                > > > --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "prettejohn" <alan.prettejohn@>
                > > > wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > Hi All
                > > > >
                > > > > Anybody care to offer some insite into tool grinding for
                > Phosphor
                > > > Bronze
                > > > > turning. It sure seems tough to a newbee.
                > > > >
                > > > > regards
                > > > >
                > > > > Alan UK
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > To Post a message, send it to: taigtools@...
                > > >
                > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: taigtools-unsubscribe@...
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Let the chips fly!
                > > >
                > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > To Post a message, send it to: taigtools@...
                >
                > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: taigtools-unsubscribe@...
                >
                >
                >
                > Let the chips fly!
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
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