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Re: [taigtools] Blown Fuses

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  • Jeff Demand
    BIGGER FUSE !!! Actually transformers are quite tolerant of brief ocassional abuse, maybe you could try a slo-blow. (usual disclaimer about following any of my
    Message 1 of 29 , Oct 31, 2006
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      BIGGER FUSE !!!

      Actually transformers are quite tolerant of brief ocassional abuse,
      maybe you could try a slo-blow. (usual disclaimer about following any of my
      advice ;-) Otherwise beef up your power supply.

      Jeff

      *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

      On 10/31/2006 at 10:28 AM benedict-list@... wrote:

      >I've got one of the older Microproto drives for my Taig along with a
      >Turbotaig board from Peter Homann. A few months ago my shop computer
      >finally went to the big junkyard in the sky, so I started building out
      >another one. I'm still too broke to get a new computer that'll run XP,
      >but the computer I did get is easily the fastest one ever to set foot in
      >my shop: 900MHz. Running DOS and TurboCNC, it screams.
      >
      >With cleaner waveforms coming from the nice new hardware I decided to
      >re-tune my motion parameters and see just how fast I could go. A little
      >tweaking, a little stalling, and I got a nice set of numbers. So... I
      >took it out for a ride.
      >
      >I ran all four axes as fast as I could go, back and forth and back and
      >forth. And back... And forth... And... And? What happened?!
      >
      >Luckily I've seen this before, so I knew just what had happened: All four

      >axes stopped moving, but kept making noise. I did the "grab the knob"
      >test when resting and in motion. The motors were all equally weak.
      >
      >I'd blown my high current fuse. I have spares from the last time I
      >re-tuned my setup, so replacement isn't a problem. But I'd rather not do
      >this again if I can help it. I know the chances of running all four axes
      >with a single G0 move is close to zero, but there's always the
      >possibility. I did crank back the top speeds on all four motors to give
      >me a safety margin. Anything else I can do? I'm welcoming any and all
      >suggestions.
      >
      >Thanks,
      >
      >Tom
      >
      >
      >
      >To Post a message, send it to: taigtools@...
      >
      >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: taigtools-unsubscribe@...
      >
      >
      >
      >Let the chips fly!
      >
      >Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >--
      >No virus found in this incoming message.
      >Checked by AVG Free Edition.
      >Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.20/508 - Release Date:
      10/31/2006


      -
      Demand Designs
      Analog/Digital Modelling & Goldsmithing

      http://www.gmavt.net/~jdemand
      jdemand@...
      -
    • Vlad Krupin
      ... But then you also have to consider whether the higher speed really draws appreciably more current than the slower speed. If it s a stepper motor driven by
      Message 2 of 29 , Nov 1, 2006
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        On 10/31/06, Peter Homann <groups@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Hi Tom,
        >
        > Sounds like the fuse did its job. I'm sure its not there to stop you
        > driving the axis hard, and it doesn't sound like there was a problem with
        > the driver unit.
        >
        > To me it sounds like it may be underrated, BUT I wouldn't suggest that you
        > up the fuse rating though. Maybe a slow blow?
        >
        > Then again you could just slow down the motors a little. :-)


        But then you also have to consider whether the higher speed really draws
        appreciably more current than the slower speed. If it's a stepper motor
        driven by a PWM controller, the current shouldn't change very much with
        speed. I can't back my statement up with actual current measurements, it's
        just my understanding of how things work.

        Vlad

        Cheers,
        >
        > Peter.
        >
        > benedict-list@... wrote:
        > > I've got one of the older Microproto drives for my Taig along with a
        > > Turbotaig board from Peter Homann. A few months ago my shop computer
        > > finally went to the big junkyard in the sky, so I started building out
        > > another one. I'm still too broke to get a new computer that'll run XP,
        > > but the computer I did get is easily the fastest one ever to set foot in
        > > my shop: 900MHz. Running DOS and TurboCNC, it screams.
        > >
        > > With cleaner waveforms coming from the nice new hardware I decided to
        > > re-tune my motion parameters and see just how fast I could go. A little
        > > tweaking, a little stalling, and I got a nice set of numbers. So... I
        > > took it out for a ride.
        > >
        > > I ran all four axes as fast as I could go, back and forth and back and
        > > forth. And back... And forth... And... And? What happened?!
        > >
        > > Luckily I've seen this before, so I knew just what had happened: All
        > four
        > > axes stopped moving, but kept making noise. I did the "grab the knob"
        > > test when resting and in motion. The motors were all equally weak.
        > >
        > > I'd blown my high current fuse. I have spares from the last time I
        > > re-tuned my setup, so replacement isn't a problem. But I'd rather not
        > do
        > > this again if I can help it. I know the chances of running all four
        > axes
        > > with a single G0 move is close to zero, but there's always the
        > > possibility. I did crank back the top speeds on all four motors to give
        > > me a safety margin. Anything else I can do? I'm welcoming any and all
        > > suggestions.
        > >
        > > Thanks,
        > >
        > > Tom
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > To Post a message, send it to: taigtools@...
        > >
        > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
        > taigtools-unsubscribe@...
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Let the chips fly!
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        > To Post a message, send it to: taigtools@...
        >
        > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: taigtools-unsubscribe@...
        >
        >
        >
        > Let the chips fly!
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >


        --
        Vlad's shop
        http://www.krupin.net/serendipity/index.php?/categories/2-metalworking


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • benedict-list@hawaii.rr.com
        I don t know if it s the higher speeds or the longer accelerations getting up to speed, or if I need to adjust my gibs or what. But the faster I run it, the
        Message 3 of 29 , Nov 2, 2006
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          I don't know if it's the higher speeds or the longer accelerations getting
          up to speed, or if I need to adjust my gibs or what. But the faster I run
          it, the more frequently I blow fuses. I don't have enough data to back up
          any theory either way. Right now I'm running on empirical evidence and
          hoping a slow-blow fuse will keep things going.

          I'm not complaining, mind you. On the old computer 25ipm rapids on all
          four axes were about what I could get before something let go. There's a
          lot to be said for a cleaner waveform. I can get 45ipm rapids on all four
          axes now. 60 is what blew the fuse. So I'm sitting nicely at 37 ipm and
          seem to be ok.

          I have another question, but I'll start a new thread for it.

          To

          On Wed, 1 Nov 2006, Vlad Krupin wrote:

          > On 10/31/06, Peter Homann <groups@...> wrote:
          >>
          >>
          >> Hi Tom,
          >>
          >> Sounds like the fuse did its job. I'm sure its not there to stop you
          >> driving the axis hard, and it doesn't sound like there was a problem with
          >> the driver unit.
          >>
          >> To me it sounds like it may be underrated, BUT I wouldn't suggest that you
          >> up the fuse rating though. Maybe a slow blow?
          >>
          >> Then again you could just slow down the motors a little. :-)
          >
          >
          > But then you also have to consider whether the higher speed really draws
          > appreciably more current than the slower speed. If it's a stepper motor
          > driven by a PWM controller, the current shouldn't change very much with
          > speed. I can't back my statement up with actual current measurements, it's
          > just my understanding of how things work.
          >
          > Vlad
          >
          > Cheers,
          >>
          >> Peter.
          >>
          >> benedict-list@... wrote:
          >>> I've got one of the older Microproto drives for my Taig along with a
          >>> Turbotaig board from Peter Homann. A few months ago my shop computer
          >>> finally went to the big junkyard in the sky, so I started building out
          >>> another one. I'm still too broke to get a new computer that'll run XP,
          >>> but the computer I did get is easily the fastest one ever to set foot in
          >>> my shop: 900MHz. Running DOS and TurboCNC, it screams.
          >>>
          >>> With cleaner waveforms coming from the nice new hardware I decided to
          >>> re-tune my motion parameters and see just how fast I could go. A little
          >>> tweaking, a little stalling, and I got a nice set of numbers. So... I
          >>> took it out for a ride.
          >>>
          >>> I ran all four axes as fast as I could go, back and forth and back and
          >>> forth. And back... And forth... And... And? What happened?!
          >>>
          >>> Luckily I've seen this before, so I knew just what had happened: All
          >> four
          >>> axes stopped moving, but kept making noise. I did the "grab the knob"
          >>> test when resting and in motion. The motors were all equally weak.
          >>>
          >>> I'd blown my high current fuse. I have spares from the last time I
          >>> re-tuned my setup, so replacement isn't a problem. But I'd rather not
          >> do
          >>> this again if I can help it. I know the chances of running all four
          >> axes
          >>> with a single G0 move is close to zero, but there's always the
          >>> possibility. I did crank back the top speeds on all four motors to give
          >>> me a safety margin. Anything else I can do? I'm welcoming any and all
          >>> suggestions.
          >>>
          >>> Thanks,
          >>>
          >>> Tom
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>> To Post a message, send it to: taigtools@...
          >>>
          >>> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
          >> taigtools-unsubscribe@...
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>> Let the chips fly!
          >>>
          >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> To Post a message, send it to: taigtools@...
          >>
          >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: taigtools-unsubscribe@...
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> Let the chips fly!
          >>
          >> Yahoo! Groups Links
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          > --
          > Vlad's shop
          > http://www.krupin.net/serendipity/index.php?/categories/2-metalworking
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
        • benedict-list@hawaii.rr.com
          Here s a whole mess of questions: Who s got a rotary table, and what do you use it for? What kind of accessories have you made for it? How often do you use it?
          Message 4 of 29 , Nov 2, 2006
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            Here's a whole mess of questions:

            Who's got a rotary table, and what do you use it for?

            What kind of accessories have you made for it?

            How often do you use it?

            Do you use it as a four axis system, or do you trade in one axis to run
            the rotary?

            I know these have been asked in the past, and there's a whole wealth of
            information in the archives. But in getting my mill running again I've
            come across some jobs that could use a rotary. Some of them are "let's
            make a lot of these", so I'm considering using the rotary table as a parts
            changer. Others need flat machining on several sides, so I'm considering
            using it as an indexer. Others are just noxious and need four
            simultaneous axes running.

            But in the past I've always ALWAYS used the rotary as a chuck holder. I'd
            stick a lathe chuck on the thing, chuck up the part, machine away, then
            remove it from the chuck. To do some of these other things that's really
            not the best way to go about it.

            Sooooo...

            I'm making rotary table furniture! So far I've got plans for a four-sided
            tombstone to use as a parts changer and I've planned out a one-sided
            tombstone to use for multi-facet 2D milling and for 4-axis milling. But I
            can't claim they're anywhere near "the best design". They're just what I
            came up with when I sat down with pencil and paper.

            I'd be curious what other people are doing. Anyone?

            Tom
          • whatsit_stick
            ... getting ... I run ... back up ... There s a ... all four ... ipm and ... problem with ... that you ... draws ... motor ... with ... measurements, it s ...
            Message 5 of 29 , Nov 2, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, benedict-list@... wrote:
              >
              > I don't know if it's the higher speeds or the longer accelerations
              getting
              > up to speed, or if I need to adjust my gibs or what. But the faster
              I run
              > it, the more frequently I blow fuses. I don't have enough data to
              back up
              > any theory either way. Right now I'm running on empirical evidence and
              > hoping a slow-blow fuse will keep things going.
              >
              > I'm not complaining, mind you. On the old computer 25ipm rapids on all
              > four axes were about what I could get before something let go.
              There's a
              > lot to be said for a cleaner waveform. I can get 45ipm rapids on
              all four
              > axes now. 60 is what blew the fuse. So I'm sitting nicely at 37
              ipm and
              > seem to be ok.
              >
              > I have another question, but I'll start a new thread for it.
              >
              > To
              >
              > On Wed, 1 Nov 2006, Vlad Krupin wrote:
              >
              > > On 10/31/06, Peter Homann <groups@...> wrote:
              > >>
              > >>
              > >> Hi Tom,
              > >>
              > >> Sounds like the fuse did its job. I'm sure its not there to stop you
              > >> driving the axis hard, and it doesn't sound like there was a
              problem with
              > >> the driver unit.
              > >>
              > >> To me it sounds like it may be underrated, BUT I wouldn't suggest
              that you
              > >> up the fuse rating though. Maybe a slow blow?
              > >>
              > >> Then again you could just slow down the motors a little. :-)
              > >
              > >
              > > But then you also have to consider whether the higher speed really
              draws
              > > appreciably more current than the slower speed. If it's a stepper
              motor
              > > driven by a PWM controller, the current shouldn't change very much
              with
              > > speed. I can't back my statement up with actual current
              measurements, it's
              > > just my understanding of how things work.
              > >
              > > Vlad
              > >
              > > Cheers,
              > >>
              > >> Peter.
              > >>
              > >> benedict-list@... wrote:
              > >>> I've got one of the older Microproto drives for my Taig along with a
              > >>> Turbotaig board from Peter Homann. A few months ago my shop
              computer
              > >>> finally went to the big junkyard in the sky, so I started
              building out
              > >>> another one. I'm still too broke to get a new computer that'll
              run XP,
              > >>> but the computer I did get is easily the fastest one ever to set
              foot in
              > >>> my shop: 900MHz. Running DOS and TurboCNC, it screams.
              > >>>
              > >>> With cleaner waveforms coming from the nice new hardware I
              decided to
              > >>> re-tune my motion parameters and see just how fast I could go.
              A little
              > >>> tweaking, a little stalling, and I got a nice set of numbers.
              So... I
              > >>> took it out for a ride.
              > >>>
              > >>> I ran all four axes as fast as I could go, back and forth and
              back and
              > >>> forth. And back... And forth... And... And? What happened?!
              > >>>
              > >>> Luckily I've seen this before, so I knew just what had happened:
              All
              > >> four
              > >>> axes stopped moving, but kept making noise. I did the "grab the
              knob"
              > >>> test when resting and in motion. The motors were all equally weak.
              > >>>
              > >>> I'd blown my high current fuse. I have spares from the last time I
              > >>> re-tuned my setup, so replacement isn't a problem. But I'd
              rather not
              > >> do
              > >>> this again if I can help it. I know the chances of running all four
              > >> axes
              > >>> with a single G0 move is close to zero, but there's always the
              > >>> possibility. I did crank back the top speeds on all four motors
              to give
              > >>> me a safety margin. Anything else I can do? I'm welcoming any
              and all
              > >>> suggestions.
              > >>>
              > >>> Thanks,
              > >>>
              > >>> Tom
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>> To Post a message, send it to: taigtools@...
              > >>>
              > >>> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
              > >> taigtools-unsubscribe@...
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>> Let the chips fly!
              > >>>
              > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >> To Post a message, send it to: taigtools@...
              > >>
              > >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: taigtools-unsubscribe@...
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >> Let the chips fly!
              > >>
              > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >
              > >
              > > --
              > > Vlad's shop
              > > http://www.krupin.net/serendipity/index.php?/categories/2-metalworking
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > >
              >
              Tom,
              DO NOT change the fuse type unless your willing to smoke your drivers
              that fast acting fuse is ment to react before the electronics get
              damaged. slow blow will not protect them!! slow blow fuses are used
              primerally on ac motor circuits where the starting current is many
              times higher than running current. they should never be used to
              protect electronic circuit.
              chuck
            • Paul W. Chamberlain
              I can t speak to my Taig 4th axis yet... but the last shop I worked at had two of their six FADAL Workcenters with 4th axis. We were making parts for Dental
              Message 6 of 29 , Nov 2, 2006
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                I can't speak to my Taig 4th axis yet... but the last shop I worked at
                had two of their six FADAL Workcenters with 4th axis. We were making
                parts for Dental chairs and light bar systems.

                We had fixtures with a center locator spud that bolted to the face of
                the rotary table, and were supported on the other end by a tailstock.
                The fixtures were either two sided or four sided, and used in the
                fashion you describe as "indexer". There was a defined reference surface
                near the rotary table end for establishing "A0". Used a pocket level to
                get close, then a DTI to dial it in.

                Frequently, parts were moved to different sides of the fixture as the
                program paused before the next sequence. Interestingly, some operations
                occurred on the parts while rotated to the side position. One needs to
                think outside the box at times.

                Paul, Central OR

                *****

                benedict-list@... wrote:

                >Here's a whole mess of questions:
                >
                >Who's got a rotary table, and what do you use it for?
                >
                >What kind of accessories have you made for it?
                >
                >How often do you use it?
                >
                >Do you use it as a four axis system, or do you trade in one axis to run
                >the rotary?
                >
                >I know these have been asked in the past, and there's a whole wealth of
                >information in the archives. But in getting my mill running again I've
                >come across some jobs that could use a rotary. Some of them are "let's
                >make a lot of these", so I'm considering using the rotary table as a parts
                >changer. Others need flat machining on several sides, so I'm considering
                >using it as an indexer. Others are just noxious and need four
                >simultaneous axes running.
                >
                >But in the past I've always ALWAYS used the rotary as a chuck holder. I'd
                >stick a lathe chuck on the thing, chuck up the part, machine away, then
                >remove it from the chuck. To do some of these other things that's really
                >not the best way to go about it.
                >
                >Sooooo...
                >
                >I'm making rotary table furniture! So far I've got plans for a four-sided
                >tombstone to use as a parts changer and I've planned out a one-sided
                >tombstone to use for multi-facet 2D milling and for 4-axis milling. But I
                >can't claim they're anywhere near "the best design". They're just what I
                >came up with when I sat down with pencil and paper.
                >
                >I'd be curious what other people are doing. Anyone?
                >
                >Tom
                >
                >
                >
                >To Post a message, send it to: taigtools@...
                >
                >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: taigtools-unsubscribe@...
                >
                >
                >
                >Let the chips fly!
                >
                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • nattyone960
                For what I do it is almost a must have. I did refuse to buy one and ended up spending hundreds of dollars chasing mis-matched drives, servos and gearing
                Message 7 of 29 , Nov 2, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  For what I do it is almost a must have.
                  I did refuse to buy one and ended up spending hundreds of dollars
                  chasing mis-matched drives, servos and gearing system. I did learn a
                  bunch along the way.
                  I think by next week I should have at least one assembled, then I will
                  execute a few projects that has been languishing.

                  My big problem is after staying committed to the Taig and investing in a
                  QC tool change system for it, I don't think I will have too much usable
                  headroom.
                  I might have to ditch the QC.

                  --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, benedict-list@... wrote:
                  >
                  > Here's a whole mess of questions:
                  >
                  > Who's got a rotary table, and what do you use it for?
                  >
                  > What kind of accessories have you made for it?
                  >
                  > How often do you use it?
                  >
                  > Do you use it as a four axis system, or do you trade in one axis to run
                  > the rotary?
                  >
                  > I know these have been asked in the past, and there's a whole wealth
                  of
                  > information in the archives. But in getting my mill running again I've
                  > come across some jobs that could use a rotary. Some of them
                  are "let's
                  > make a lot of these", so I'm considering using the rotary table as a
                  parts
                  > changer. Others need flat machining on several sides, so I'm
                  considering
                  > using it as an indexer. Others are just noxious and need four
                  > simultaneous axes running.
                  >
                  > But in the past I've always ALWAYS used the rotary as a chuck
                  holder. I'd
                  > stick a lathe chuck on the thing, chuck up the part, machine away,
                  then
                  > remove it from the chuck. To do some of these other things that's
                  really
                  > not the best way to go about it.
                  >
                  > Sooooo...
                  >
                  > I'm making rotary table furniture! So far I've got plans for a four-
                  sided
                  > tombstone to use as a parts changer and I've planned out a one-sided
                  > tombstone to use for multi-facet 2D milling and for 4-axis milling. But
                  I
                  > can't claim they're anywhere near "the best design". They're just
                  what I
                  > came up with when I sat down with pencil and paper.
                  >
                  > I'd be curious what other people are doing. Anyone?
                  >
                  > Tom
                  >
                • Vlad Krupin
                  On 11/2/06, whatsit_stick wrote: [snip] ... Well, these are fairly special electronic circuits. Many PWM controllers can tolerate an
                  Message 8 of 29 , Nov 2, 2006
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                    On 11/2/06, whatsit_stick <chuckels@...> wrote:
                    [snip]

                    >
                    > Tom,
                    > DO NOT change the fuse type unless your willing to smoke your drivers
                    > that fast acting fuse is ment to react before the electronics get
                    > damaged. slow blow will not protect them!! slow blow fuses are used
                    > primerally on ac motor circuits where the starting current is many
                    > times higher than running current. they should never be used to
                    > protect electronic circuit.
                    > chuck


                    Well, these are fairly special electronic circuits. Many PWM controllers can
                    tolerate an occasional current spike very nicely, and, in fact are designed
                    for that, so a slow blow fuse may be quite appropriate. It really depends on
                    the controller. A alternate solution to the problem could be as simple as
                    placing a bigger capacitor between the fuse and the board. That should take
                    care of the times when the board may want to draw too much current for the
                    fuse's liking for a brief period. Of course, moderation is required - if you
                    put too big of a capacitor you'll blow the same fuse when you power up your
                    equipment, not to mention that your fuse won't offer as much protection as
                    you'd expect.

                    One more thing to consider: Do you have one fuse for everything, or a fuse
                    per axis? I'd say a fuse per axis is more appropriate in this setup, because
                    we are really trying to protect the controllers, not the power supply. Most
                    power supplies won't mind supplying excess current for a while -- all that
                    will happen is your voltage will sag. If you have one big fuse, it won't
                    protect individual board from overcurrent, and yet can blow when all boards
                    are running together and are drawing a large but reasonable amount of
                    current. Of course, you could have a fuse per axis plus a big extra fuse to
                    protect the power supply, if you really wanted.

                    Last, but not least, are you fuses are properly sized?

                    Lastly, a small disclaimer. Things of electrical nature are not my area of
                    expertise, so take them with a good grain of salt. I describe things the way
                    I understand them to work, so if you follow my advice, and it blows your
                    house apart... sorry!.. :)

                    Vlad

                    --
                    Vlad's shop
                    http://www.krupin.net/serendipity/index.php?/categories/2-metalworking


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Vlad Krupin
                    ... I don t have one, but I want one to cut sides of taig blank arbors for the 7/8 spanner. It s too tedious otherwise. -- Vlad s shop
                    Message 9 of 29 , Nov 2, 2006
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                      On 11/2/06, benedict-list@... <benedict-list@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Here's a whole mess of questions:
                      >
                      > Who's got a rotary table, and what do you use it for?


                      I don't have one, but I want one to cut sides of taig blank arbors for the
                      7/8" spanner. It's too tedious otherwise.

                      --
                      Vlad's shop
                      http://www.krupin.net/serendipity/index.php?/categories/2-metalworking


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • underdog02817
                      I have one but cannot comment as of yet(just got it). I am in the process of moving the mill building an enclosure and resetting up the mill(trmming it in very
                      Message 10 of 29 , Nov 3, 2006
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                        I have one but cannot comment as of yet(just got it). I am in the
                        process of moving the mill building an enclosure and resetting up
                        the mill(trmming it in very well this time).Then building the proper
                        mounting hardware to get it attached to the mill. I will try it out
                        when finished and let you know. My plans are to do 3-D contouring
                        with it and use it as an all in one fixture plate for flip milling
                        and such. I do jewelry and collectable/giftware types of projects.
                        So my parts are of a "from scratch" and not so much mods on existing
                        parts.


                        --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "Vlad Krupin" <vlad.cnc@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > On 11/2/06, benedict-list@... <benedict-list@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Here's a whole mess of questions:
                        > >
                        > > Who's got a rotary table, and what do you use it for?
                        >
                        >
                        > I don't have one, but I want one to cut sides of taig blank arbors
                        for the
                        > 7/8" spanner. It's too tedious otherwise.
                        >
                        > --
                        > Vlad's shop
                        > http://www.krupin.net/serendipity/index.php?/categories/2-
                        metalworking
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • benedict-list@hawaii.rr.com
                        So far I haven t swapped out anything, fuse or otherwise. So I still just have a blown fuse. Unfortunately I don t have the original since I blew it a while
                        Message 11 of 29 , Nov 3, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          So far I haven't swapped out anything, fuse or otherwise. So I still just
                          have a blown fuse. Unfortunately I don't have the original since I blew
                          it a while back.

                          Before switching out anything for a different rating, I'm planning on
                          calling Taig just to make sure. No worries.

                          Vlad, it's a single fuse for all axes kind of thing. The fuse is in an
                          inline fuse holder just off the power supply. The caps it comes off of
                          are mighty big already (it's been over a year since I popped the hood, so
                          to speak, so I don't know the actual rating, but they're each a pretty
                          good handful.)

                          Not sure about the specs on the fuse. It's running the same rating as
                          before, though, so it should match whatever the folks at Taig installed
                          before it went out the door.

                          A while back there was a thread on how fast you can push a Taig, and I
                          remember someone told Forrest they were running 60 ipm rapids, and he did
                          a double-take. My guess is the answer to my blown fuse problem is to slow
                          down, which I already have.

                          My schedule has been a little unkind lately, and I haven't been out in the
                          shop nearly as much as I'd like. With any luck I can get out this
                          weekend, swap out the fuse, and actually try some of the advice I've been
                          given.

                          Thanks to everyone who's responded.

                          Tom

                          On Thu, 2 Nov 2006, Vlad Krupin wrote:

                          > On 11/2/06, whatsit_stick <chuckels@...> wrote:
                          > [snip]
                          >
                          >> DO NOT change the fuse type unless your willing to smoke your drivers
                          >> that fast acting fuse is ment to react before the electronics get
                          >> damaged. slow blow will not protect them!! slow blow fuses are used
                          >> primerally on ac motor circuits where the starting current is many
                          >> times higher than running current. they should never be used to protect
                          >> electronic circuit. chuck
                          >
                          > Well, these are fairly special electronic circuits. Many PWM controllers
                          > can tolerate an occasional current spike very nicely, and, in fact are
                          > designed for that, so a slow blow fuse may be quite appropriate. It
                          > really depends on the controller. A alternate solution to the problem
                          > could be as simple as placing a bigger capacitor between the fuse and
                          > the board. That should take care of the times when the board may want to
                          > draw too much current for the fuse's liking for a brief period. Of
                          > course, moderation is required - if you put too big of a capacitor
                          > you'll blow the same fuse when you power up your equipment, not to
                          > mention that your fuse won't offer as much protection as you'd expect.
                          >
                          > One more thing to consider: Do you have one fuse for everything, or a
                          > fuse per axis? I'd say a fuse per axis is more appropriate in this
                          > setup, because we are really trying to protect the controllers, not the
                          > power supply. Most power supplies won't mind supplying excess current
                          > for a while -- all that will happen is your voltage will sag. If you
                          > have one big fuse, it won't protect individual board from overcurrent,
                          > and yet can blow when all boards are running together and are drawing a
                          > large but reasonable amount of current. Of course, you could have a fuse
                          > per axis plus a big extra fuse to protect the power supply, if you
                          > really wanted.
                          >
                          > Last, but not least, are you fuses are properly sized?
                          >
                          > Lastly, a small disclaimer. Things of electrical nature are not my area
                          > of expertise, so take them with a good grain of salt. I describe things
                          > the way I understand them to work, so if you follow my advice, and it
                          > blows your house apart... sorry!.. :)
                          >
                          > Vlad
                          >
                          > --
                          > Vlad's shop
                          > http://www.krupin.net/serendipity/index.php?/categories/2-metalworking
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                        • Vlad Krupin
                          ... That makes sense. I take it that the capacitors are on the power supply side of the fuse, not on the driver board side, right? All they do is smooth out
                          Message 12 of 29 , Nov 3, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            On 11/3/06, benedict-list@... <benedict-list@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > So far I haven't swapped out anything, fuse or otherwise. So I still just
                            > have a blown fuse. Unfortunately I don't have the original since I blew
                            > it a while back.
                            >
                            > Before switching out anything for a different rating, I'm planning on
                            > calling Taig just to make sure. No worries.
                            >
                            > Vlad, it's a single fuse for all axes kind of thing. The fuse is in an
                            > inline fuse holder just off the power supply. The caps it comes off of
                            > are mighty big already (it's been over a year since I popped the hood, so
                            > to speak, so I don't know the actual rating, but they're each a pretty
                            > good handful.)


                            That makes sense. I take it that the capacitors are on the power supply side
                            of the fuse, not on the driver board side, right? All they do is smooth out
                            the voltage coming off your power supply. So if your driver boards decide to
                            work hard (especially if you run all 4 of them) and draw a bunch of current
                            (each within their respective limits), there will be a lot of current
                            flowing out of your power supply, including those big capacitors, through
                            the fuse and into your driver boards. Pop! There goes the fuse.

                            Not sure about the specs on the fuse. It's running the same rating as
                            > before, though, so it should match whatever the folks at Taig installed
                            > before it went out the door.


                            aha - factory installed. I have no idea what they have in there... I would
                            be curious though, so if somebody knows what taig has 'under the hood',
                            please do share.

                            A while back there was a thread on how fast you can push a Taig, and I
                            > remember someone told Forrest they were running 60 ipm rapids, and he did
                            > a double-take. My guess is the answer to my blown fuse problem is to slow
                            > down, which I already have.


                            I think that might've been me :) I have mine set to 60 IPM rapids, except
                            for Z axis, where 60IPM is too scary. But I don't use the "stock" taig
                            controller either, so this would be comparing apples to oranges.

                            My schedule has been a little unkind lately, and I haven't been out in the
                            > shop nearly as much as I'd like. With any luck I can get out this
                            > weekend, swap out the fuse, and actually try some of the advice I've been
                            > given.
                            >
                            > Thanks to everyone who's responded.
                            >
                            > Tom
                            >
                            > On Thu, 2 Nov 2006, Vlad Krupin wrote:
                            >
                            > > On 11/2/06, whatsit_stick <chuckels@...> wrote:
                            > > [snip]
                            > >
                            > >> DO NOT change the fuse type unless your willing to smoke your drivers
                            > >> that fast acting fuse is ment to react before the electronics get
                            > >> damaged. slow blow will not protect them!! slow blow fuses are used
                            > >> primerally on ac motor circuits where the starting current is many
                            > >> times higher than running current. they should never be used to protect
                            > >> electronic circuit. chuck
                            > >
                            > > Well, these are fairly special electronic circuits. Many PWM controllers
                            > > can tolerate an occasional current spike very nicely, and, in fact are
                            > > designed for that, so a slow blow fuse may be quite appropriate. It
                            > > really depends on the controller. A alternate solution to the problem
                            > > could be as simple as placing a bigger capacitor between the fuse and
                            > > the board. That should take care of the times when the board may want to
                            > > draw too much current for the fuse's liking for a brief period. Of
                            > > course, moderation is required - if you put too big of a capacitor
                            > > you'll blow the same fuse when you power up your equipment, not to
                            > > mention that your fuse won't offer as much protection as you'd expect.
                            > >
                            > > One more thing to consider: Do you have one fuse for everything, or a
                            > > fuse per axis? I'd say a fuse per axis is more appropriate in this
                            > > setup, because we are really trying to protect the controllers, not the
                            > > power supply. Most power supplies won't mind supplying excess current
                            > > for a while -- all that will happen is your voltage will sag. If you
                            > > have one big fuse, it won't protect individual board from overcurrent,
                            > > and yet can blow when all boards are running together and are drawing a
                            > > large but reasonable amount of current. Of course, you could have a fuse
                            > > per axis plus a big extra fuse to protect the power supply, if you
                            > > really wanted.
                            > >
                            > > Last, but not least, are you fuses are properly sized?
                            > >
                            > > Lastly, a small disclaimer. Things of electrical nature are not my area
                            > > of expertise, so take them with a good grain of salt. I describe things
                            > > the way I understand them to work, so if you follow my advice, and it
                            > > blows your house apart... sorry!.. :)
                            > >
                            > > Vlad
                            > >
                            > > --
                            > > Vlad's shop
                            > > http://www.krupin.net/serendipity/index.php?/categories/2-metalworking
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
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                            >
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                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Let the chips fly!
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >


                            --
                            Vlad's shop
                            http://www.krupin.net/serendipity/index.php?/categories/2-metalworking


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • John Trevick
                            ... 60IPM? Technology keeps passing us by. Jon Elson of Pico-Systems setup a Taig about a year ago which he claims was able to run 120IPM.
                            Message 13 of 29 , Nov 4, 2006
                            • 0 Attachment
                              At 01:42 PM 11/3/2006, benedict-list@... wrote:

                              >A while back there was a thread on how fast you can push a Taig, and I
                              >remember someone told Forrest they were running 60 ipm rapids, and he did
                              >a double-take. My guess is the answer to my blown fuse problem is to slow
                              >down, which I already have.

                              60IPM? Technology keeps passing us by. Jon Elson of Pico-Systems setup a
                              Taig about a year ago which he claims was able to run
                              120IPM. http://www.pico-systems.com/smallpwm.html He should probably
                              include an extra set of lead screws and nuts in the package. Nice drive.



                              - John
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