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Re: [taigtools] cnc driver advice

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  • Eduard Nesterov
    Tony, Where you able to use Xylotex steppers (if you had those ones originally) with this drives? Thanks, Ed
    Message 1 of 18 , Sep 9, 2006
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      Tony,

      Where you able to use Xylotex steppers (if you had those ones
      originally) with this drives?
      Thanks,
      Ed

      Tony Jeffree wrote:
      > At 04:00 09/09/2006, eduard_nesterov wrote:
      >
      >> Hello everybody,
      >>
      >> I need an advice. My Xylotex driver blew up today, after less then 1
      >> year of sitting in my basement (~40 hours of work). I am not trying to
      >> blame anybody just want to make a right choice. My options are:
      >> - repair Xylotex board which will take ~ $55 and pretty long time.
      >> - get a brand new driver.
      >>
      >> I am pretty sure that the reason why the existing driver blew up is
      >> not over voltage or over current, or lack of cooling as I monitored
      >> all this factors very closely. This leaves me with the thought that
      >> even if I repair Xylotex there is no guarantee it will work as I expect.
      >>
      >> On the other hand no one can guarantee that driver from some other
      >> vendor will be more reliable.
      >>
      >> I appreciate any thoughts and suggestions on the matter.
      >> Thanks,
      >>
      >
      > I have no experience with the latest versions of these boards, but I went
      > through 3 or 4 of them in annoyingly quick succession a while back in an
      > attempt to upgrade my Taig CNC mill. With the exception of one that I know
      > I blew through shorting the outputs, I couldn't understand why they were
      > blowing, and eventually gave up on them altogether. One of the problems I
      > had (apart from their propensity to let out the magic smoke) was that they
      > seemed very noise prone, but I believe the more recent boards address that
      > issue.
      >
      > I now have a re-vamped mill setup based on imported Chinese 3A/phase
      > microstepping drives supplied by these guys:
      >
      > www.arceurotrade.co.uk
      >
      > Look in the "stepper motor" section.
      >
      > Regards,
      > Tony
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > To Post a message, send it to: taigtools@...
      >
      > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: taigtools-unsubscribe@...
      >
      >
      >
      > Let the chips fly!
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Eduard Nesterov
      Peter, Do you know what kind of warranty do Gekos have? Can not find it on the web site. Also do you know any place where I can get an assembled box which has
      Message 2 of 18 , Sep 9, 2006
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        Peter,

        Do you know what kind of warranty do Gekos have? Can not find it on the
        web site.
        Also do you know any place where I can get an assembled box which has
        everything - power supply, drives, breakout board. The idea is to have
        the entire unit covered by the single warranty.

        Thanks,
        Ed

        Peter Homann wrote:
        > Hi Ed,
        >
        > If you want reliability, I'd go for a set of Gecko 202 drives. They are
        > reliable, have quite a bit of protection in case of miss wiring. They will
        > even replace a blown one, on questions asked. Actually you have to tell them
        > what sin you committed, but they will replace it free.
        >
        > Put them together with a PDMX breakout board and you will have a bullet proof
        > system.
        >
        > Just my opinion though.
        >
        > Cheers,
        >
        > Peter.
        >
        > eduard_nesterov wrote:
        >
        >> Hello everybody,
        >>
        >> I need an advice. My Xylotex driver blew up today, after less then 1
        >> year of sitting in my basement (~40 hours of work). I am not trying to
        >> blame anybody just want to make a right choice. My options are:
        >> - repair Xylotex board which will take ~ $55 and pretty long time.
        >> - get a brand new driver.
        >>
        >> I am pretty sure that the reason why the existing driver blew up is
        >> not over voltage or over current, or lack of cooling as I monitored
        >> all this factors very closely. This leaves me with the thought that
        >> even if I repair Xylotex there is no guarantee it will work as I expect.
        >>
        >> On the other hand no one can guarantee that driver from some other
        >> vendor will be more reliable.
        >>
        >> I appreciate any thoughts and suggestions on the matter.
        >> Thanks,
        >> Ed
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> To Post a message, send it to: taigtools@...
        >>
        >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: taigtools-unsubscribe@...
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> Let the chips fly!
        >>
        >> Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
      • Peter Homann
        Hi Ed, No, not sure where the warranty is stated, just know that Mariss will replace it free of charge the first time. Maybe ring or email Gecko. As to a
        Message 3 of 18 , Sep 9, 2006
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          Hi Ed,

          No, not sure where the warranty is stated, just know that Mariss will replace
          it free of charge the first time. Maybe ring or email Gecko.

          As to a complete Unit, No I don't know of a single source.

          Cheers,

          Peter.

          Eduard Nesterov wrote:
          > Peter,
          >
          > Do you know what kind of warranty do Gekos have? Can not find it on the
          > web site.
          > Also do you know any place where I can get an assembled box which has
          > everything - power supply, drives, breakout board. The idea is to have
          > the entire unit covered by the single warranty.
          >
          > Thanks,
          > Ed
          >
          > Peter Homann wrote:
          >> Hi Ed,
          >>
          >> If you want reliability, I'd go for a set of Gecko 202 drives. They are
          >> reliable, have quite a bit of protection in case of miss wiring. They will
          >> even replace a blown one, on questions asked. Actually you have to tell them
          >> what sin you committed, but they will replace it free.
          >>
          >> Put them together with a PDMX breakout board and you will have a bullet proof
          >> system.
          >>
          >> Just my opinion though.
          >>
          >> Cheers,
          >>
          >> Peter.
          >>
          >> eduard_nesterov wrote:
          >>
          >>> Hello everybody,
          >>>
          >>> I need an advice. My Xylotex driver blew up today, after less then 1
          >>> year of sitting in my basement (~40 hours of work). I am not trying to
          >>> blame anybody just want to make a right choice. My options are:
          >>> - repair Xylotex board which will take ~ $55 and pretty long time.
          >>> - get a brand new driver.
          >>>
          >>> I am pretty sure that the reason why the existing driver blew up is
          >>> not over voltage or over current, or lack of cooling as I monitored
          >>> all this factors very closely. This leaves me with the thought that
          >>> even if I repair Xylotex there is no guarantee it will work as I expect.
          >>>
          >>> On the other hand no one can guarantee that driver from some other
          >>> vendor will be more reliable.
          >>>
          >>> I appreciate any thoughts and suggestions on the matter.
          >>> Thanks,
          >>> Ed
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>> To Post a message, send it to: taigtools@...
          >>>
          >>> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: taigtools-unsubscribe@...
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>> Let the chips fly!
          >>>
          >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          > To Post a message, send it to: taigtools@...
          >
          > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: taigtools-unsubscribe@...
          >
          >
          >
          > Let the chips fly!
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >

          --
          ------------------------------------------------------------------
          Web: www.homanndesigns.com
          email: homann@...
          Phone: +61 421 601 665
          www.homanndesigns.com/ModIO.html - Modbus Interface Unit
          www.homanndesigns.com/DigiSpeedDeal.html - DC Spindle control
          www.homanndesigns.com/TurboTaig.html - Taig Mill Upgrade board
        • Tony Jeffree
          Ed - They were steppers I had already, but fairly easy to drive - actually the 1A/phase motors that Taig uses in their CNC mill. Regards, Tony
          Message 4 of 18 , Sep 9, 2006
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            Ed -

            They were steppers I had already, but fairly "easy" to drive - actually the
            1A/phase motors that Taig uses in their CNC mill.

            Regards,
            Tony

            At 12:54 09/09/2006, you wrote:
            >Tony,
            >
            >Where you able to use Xylotex steppers (if you had those ones
            >originally) with this drives?
            >Thanks,
            >Ed
            >
            >Tony Jeffree wrote:
            > > At 04:00 09/09/2006, eduard_nesterov wrote:
            > >
            > >> Hello everybody,
            > >>
            > >> I need an advice. My Xylotex driver blew up today, after less then 1
            > >> year of sitting in my basement (~40 hours of work). I am not trying to
            > >> blame anybody just want to make a right choice. My options are:
            > >> - repair Xylotex board which will take ~ $55 and pretty long time.
            > >> - get a brand new driver.
            > >>
            > >> I am pretty sure that the reason why the existing driver blew up is
            > >> not over voltage or over current, or lack of cooling as I monitored
            > >> all this factors very closely. This leaves me with the thought that
            > >> even if I repair Xylotex there is no guarantee it will work as I expect.
            > >>
            > >> On the other hand no one can guarantee that driver from some other
            > >> vendor will be more reliable.
            > >>
            > >> I appreciate any thoughts and suggestions on the matter.
            > >> Thanks,
            > >>
            > >
            > > I have no experience with the latest versions of these boards, but I went
            > > through 3 or 4 of them in annoyingly quick succession a while back in an
            > > attempt to upgrade my Taig CNC mill. With the exception of one that I know
            > > I blew through shorting the outputs, I couldn't understand why they were
            > > blowing, and eventually gave up on them altogether. One of the problems I
            > > had (apart from their propensity to let out the magic smoke) was that they
            > > seemed very noise prone, but I believe the more recent boards address that
            > > issue.
            > >
            > > I now have a re-vamped mill setup based on imported Chinese 3A/phase
            > > microstepping drives supplied by these guys:
            > >
            > > www.arceurotrade.co.uk
            > >
            > > Look in the "stepper motor" section.
            > >
            > > Regards,
            > > Tony
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > To Post a message, send it to: taigtools@...
            > >
            > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: taigtools-unsubscribe@...
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Let the chips fly!
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >To Post a message, send it to: taigtools@...
            >
            >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: taigtools-unsubscribe@...
            >
            >
            >
            >Let the chips fly!
            >
            >Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Ken Ferrell
            Hi, I blew up my Xylotex 3 axis drive after about five or six hundred hours of hard use, by sheer stupidity, I had it in a place where 14Kt. Gold chips landed
            Message 5 of 18 , Sep 9, 2006
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              Hi,

              I blew up my Xylotex 3 axis drive after about five or six hundred hours of
              hard use, by sheer stupidity, I had it in a place where 14Kt. Gold chips
              landed on it, and gold is a very good conductor of electricity.

              Jeff repaired my board and I had it back in 8 days from the day I sent it to
              him, I did send it to him Express mail, so that saved a day or two. Since
              the repair (and a new enclosure) it�s had about 2500 hours use on my Taig,
              IMHO, the Xylotex driver is an exceptional value,

              How ever if money was not the concern, I would opt for Geckos and a
              Campbell designs board and a GREX, but if money is a concerned then get your
              Xylotex repaired, hard to imagine one of them giving up with out something
              odd happening, one way they get blown is plugging or unplugging an axis
              while the power is on.

              And you are right nobody guarantees electronics to last for ever, but if you
              keep a Xylotex cool and watch your VREF settings they give outstanding
              service,

              No connection, just a very satisfied customer

              Ken Ferrell




              --
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              Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - Release Date: 9/8/2006



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Eduard Nesterov
              Hi Ken, Thanks for the input. Money is always a concern, so is time. I live in Canada and sometimes it takes forever to get things to and from US. I guess in
              Message 6 of 18 , Sep 9, 2006
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                Hi Ken,

                Thanks for the input. Money is always a concern, so is time. I live in
                Canada and sometimes it takes forever to get things to and from US. I
                guess in my case it does make sense to repair the Xylotex board and get
                some backup solution in a little while.

                Thanks again,
                Ed

                Ken Ferrell wrote:
                > Hi,
                >
                > I blew up my Xylotex 3 axis drive after about five or six hundred hours of
                > hard use, by sheer stupidity, I had it in a place where 14Kt. Gold chips
                > landed on it, and gold is a very good conductor of electricity.
                >
                > Jeff repaired my board and I had it back in 8 days from the day I sent it to
                > him, I did send it to him Express mail, so that saved a day or two. Since
                > the repair (and a new enclosure) it’s had about 2500 hours use on my Taig,
                > IMHO, the Xylotex driver is an exceptional value,
                >
                > How ever if money was not the concern, I would opt for Geckos and a
                > Campbell designs board and a GREX, but if money is a concerned then get your
                > Xylotex repaired, hard to imagine one of them giving up with out something
                > odd happening, one way they get blown is plugging or unplugging an axis
                > while the power is on.
                >
                > And you are right nobody guarantees electronics to last for ever, but if you
                > keep a Xylotex cool and watch your VREF settings they give outstanding
                > service,
                >
                > No connection, just a very satisfied customer
                >
                > Ken Ferrell
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • John Trevick
                I had my xylotex blow and Jeff was good at having it repaired and back to me quickly. I m up in Canada too and another annoying thing was the duty fees on the
                Message 7 of 18 , Sep 10, 2006
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                  I had my xylotex blow and Jeff was good at having it repaired and back to
                  me quickly. I'm up in Canada too and another annoying thing was the duty
                  fees on the repair adding insult to injury.

                  What I figured was the culprit to killing my drive was returned energy from
                  the motors. It's just a guess but I was trying to tune the drive at that
                  time and when I'd get a following error it would stop the motor dead which
                  probably released a lot of energy. I run about 32V which is close to the
                  limit. When I got the drive back I built the Mariss energy dump circuit
                  (which is in cad_cam_edm_dro group files IIRC) and I've been ok since.

                  Probably if it blew again I'd look at buying gecko's but then that means
                  also replacing my power supply. It wouldn't be cheap.

                  Good luck,
                  - John

                  At 11:00 PM 9/8/2006, eduard_nesterov wrote:

                  >Hello everybody,
                  >
                  >I need an advice. My Xylotex driver blew up today, after less then 1
                  >year of sitting in my basement (~40 hours of work). I am not trying to
                  >blame anybody just want to make a right choice. My options are:
                  >- repair Xylotex board which will take ~ $55 and pretty long time.
                  >- get a brand new driver.
                  >
                  >I am pretty sure that the reason why the existing driver blew up is
                  >not over voltage or over current, or lack of cooling as I monitored
                  >all this factors very closely. This leaves me with the thought that
                  >even if I repair Xylotex there is no guarantee it will work as I expect.
                  >
                  >On the other hand no one can guarantee that driver from some other
                  >vendor will be more reliable.
                  >
                  >I appreciate any thoughts and suggestions on the matter.
                  >Thanks,
                  >Ed
                • nattyone960
                  ... I think this is key. My first XYLO blew up, since it was not bought directly from XYLO I had to go back to the guy who sold me the mill. After months of
                  Message 8 of 18 , Sep 10, 2006
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                    --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Ferrell" <zero-kool@...> wrote:

                    > keep a Xylotex cool and watch your VREF settings they give outstanding
                    > service,
                    >
                    > No connection, just a very satisfied customer
                    >
                    > Ken Ferrell
                    >
                    >
                    >

                    I think this is key. My first XYLO blew up, since it was not bought
                    directly from XYLO I had to go back to the guy who sold me the mill.
                    After months of running around I finally bought one on ebay and it has
                    been working since.

                    I replaced them with GECKOS, on my TAIG, but I will keep them on my
                    Tiny Mill.

                    The reason I replaced them?
                    I discovered that a few seller who sell mill/drive combo do not
                    understand the relationship between, Drive, Voltage and Electronics:

                    1.they use big motors that are underpowered when paired with the XYLO
                    2.use too large a PS, which will ruin the XYLO
                    3.even while they understand that the XYLO needs cooling, they fail to
                    take into consideration that the XYLO works better in a Faraday Shield
                    (the GECKOS don't need a fan under 10A and comes enclosed in it own
                    Faraday Shield.)
                    4.it is better to have PS and Xylo separate, where enclosed in the same
                    box make sure, the box is metal, or.... sheathed metal and that signal
                    ground is separate from PS Ground.
                    3.if you are at or near the peak voltage setting of the XYLO set VREF
                    lower than the recommended settings.

                    This is what I have found personally and all or none may apply to the
                    original poster or any other poster(s).
                    I have no personal stake in XYlos operation.
                  • Jeff Demand
                    I don t use Xylotex drives but have a lot of experience using the same allegro 3977 chip in a home brew. The final circuit I settled on is very much like the
                    Message 9 of 18 , Sep 10, 2006
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                      I don't use Xylotex drives but have a lot of experience using the same
                      allegro 3977 chip in a home brew. The final circuit I settled on is very
                      much like the one Xylotex uses These chips are very intolerant of over
                      voltage! I have a rural power company which doesn't really care about
                      delivering 120V, running close to V max when they decide to deliver 135 VAC
                      tends to let the magic smoke out. I settled on a nominal 28 V supply after
                      the second incident ;-). Disconnecting a motor while live, either by
                      accident or broken wire, is also really really fatal. I keep a few chips as
                      spares...
                      Lowest price option is buy another Xylotex and get this one repaired as
                      a spare, otherwise get Geckos. Over kill on a small mill, but very tough
                      with excellent performance (and a free replacement with full confession in
                      case you get really creatively destructive ). The company support is also
                      the best I've ever encountered, Mariss (designer and company owner) spent a
                      good twenty minutes on the phone talking me through a trouble shooting
                      session, replaced the drive, and gave me one as a Prize for being the first
                      person to kill the then new 202.

                      Jeff


                      *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

                      On 9/10/2006 at 5:16 PM nattyone960 wrote:

                      >--- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Ferrell" <zero-kool@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >> keep a Xylotex cool and watch your VREF settings they give outstanding
                      >> service,
                      >>
                      >> No connection, just a very satisfied customer
                      >>
                      >> Ken Ferrell
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      >I think this is key. My first XYLO blew up, since it was not bought
                      >directly from XYLO I had to go back to the guy who sold me the mill.
                      >After months of running around I finally bought one on ebay and it has
                      >been working since.
                      >
                      >I replaced them with GECKOS, on my TAIG, but I will keep them on my
                      >Tiny Mill.
                      >
                      >The reason I replaced them?
                      >I discovered that a few seller who sell mill/drive combo do not
                      >understand the relationship between, Drive, Voltage and Electronics:
                      >
                      >1.they use big motors that are underpowered when paired with the XYLO
                      >2.use too large a PS, which will ruin the XYLO
                      >3.even while they understand that the XYLO needs cooling, they fail to
                      >take into consideration that the XYLO works better in a Faraday Shield
                      >(the GECKOS don't need a fan under 10A and comes enclosed in it own
                      >Faraday Shield.)
                      >4.it is better to have PS and Xylo separate, where enclosed in the same
                      >box make sure, the box is metal, or.... sheathed metal and that signal
                      >ground is separate from PS Ground.
                      >3.if you are at or near the peak voltage setting of the XYLO set VREF
                      >lower than the recommended settings.
                      >
                      >This is what I have found personally and all or none may apply to the
                      >original poster or any other poster(s).
                      >I have no personal stake in XYlos operation.
                      >

                      -
                      Demand Designs
                      Analog/Digital Modelling & Goldsmithing

                      http://www.gmavt.net/~jdemand
                      jdemand@...
                      -
                    • Eduard Nesterov
                      Hi everyone, My Xylotex was installed in aluminum case with HUGE fan and I ran it with 24V on my regulated PS. Every time I was milling something I was able to
                      Message 10 of 18 , Sep 10, 2006
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                        Hi everyone,

                        My Xylotex was installed in aluminum case with HUGE fan and I ran it
                        with 24V on my regulated PS. Every time I was milling something I was
                        able to see the current and the voltage in the PS displays.
                        The Kent's statement that Xylotex does not like plugging/unplugging
                        motors when power is on made me to think about the only scenario why all
                        this could happen. The only motor which moves together with mill's
                        table/spindle is X, and this is the one which died. I do not have my
                        motor connectors screwed to the sockets on the driver enclosure. What
                        could happen is that for a millisecond X motor was disconnected and
                        connected back which caused the Xylotex failure. Of course all this is
                        just a speculation but I really need to understand what happened in
                        order not to do it again.

                        Ed

                        Jeff Demand wrote:
                        > I don't use Xylotex drives but have a lot of experience using the same
                        > allegro 3977 chip in a home brew. The final circuit I settled on is very
                        > much like the one Xylotex uses These chips are very intolerant of over
                        > voltage! I have a rural power company which doesn't really care about
                        > delivering 120V, running close to V max when they decide to deliver 135 VAC
                        > tends to let the magic smoke out. I settled on a nominal 28 V supply after
                        > the second incident ;-). Disconnecting a motor while live, either by
                        > accident or broken wire, is also really really fatal. I keep a few chips as
                        > spares...
                        > Lowest price option is buy another Xylotex and get this one repaired as
                        > a spare, otherwise get Geckos. Over kill on a small mill, but very tough
                        > with excellent performance (and a free replacement with full confession in
                        > case you get really creatively destructive ). The company support is also
                        > the best I've ever encountered, Mariss (designer and company owner) spent a
                        > good twenty minutes on the phone talking me through a trouble shooting
                        > session, replaced the drive, and gave me one as a Prize for being the first
                        > person to kill the then new 202.
                        >
                        > Jeff
                        >
                        >
                        > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
                        >
                        > On 9/10/2006 at 5:16 PM nattyone960 wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >> --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Ferrell" <zero-kool@...> wrote:
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>> keep a Xylotex cool and watch your VREF settings they give outstanding
                        >>> service,
                        >>>
                        >>> No connection, just a very satisfied customer
                        >>>
                        >>> Ken Ferrell
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >> I think this is key. My first XYLO blew up, since it was not bought
                        >> directly from XYLO I had to go back to the guy who sold me the mill.
                        >> After months of running around I finally bought one on ebay and it has
                        >> been working since.
                        >>
                        >> I replaced them with GECKOS, on my TAIG, but I will keep them on my
                        >> Tiny Mill.
                        >>
                        >> The reason I replaced them?
                        >> I discovered that a few seller who sell mill/drive combo do not
                        >> understand the relationship between, Drive, Voltage and Electronics:
                        >>
                        >> 1.they use big motors that are underpowered when paired with the XYLO
                        >> 2.use too large a PS, which will ruin the XYLO
                        >> 3.even while they understand that the XYLO needs cooling, they fail to
                        >> take into consideration that the XYLO works better in a Faraday Shield
                        >> (the GECKOS don't need a fan under 10A and comes enclosed in it own
                        >> Faraday Shield.)
                        >> 4.it is better to have PS and Xylo separate, where enclosed in the same
                        >> box make sure, the box is metal, or.... sheathed metal and that signal
                        >> ground is separate from PS Ground.
                        >> 3.if you are at or near the peak voltage setting of the XYLO set VREF
                        >> lower than the recommended settings.
                        >>
                        >> This is what I have found personally and all or none may apply to the
                        >> original poster or any other poster(s).
                        >> I have no personal stake in XYlos operation.
                        >>
                        >>
                        >
                        > -
                        > Demand Designs
                        > Analog/Digital Modelling & Goldsmithing
                        >
                        > http://www.gmavt.net/~jdemand
                        > jdemand@...
                        > -
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > To Post a message, send it to: taigtools@...
                        >
                        > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: taigtools-unsubscribe@...
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Let the chips fly!
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Jeff Demand
                        Ed, Disconnecting a motor which is powered for even a millisecond will kill most drives. Remember that usually a stationary motor will get warmer than a motor
                        Message 11 of 18 , Sep 10, 2006
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                          Ed,

                          Disconnecting a motor which is powered for even a millisecond will kill
                          most drives. Remember that usually a stationary motor will get warmer than
                          a motor moving and doing work. LOCK ALL motor cable connectors, the drive
                          failure on hot disconnects is almost certain to occur with any drive based
                          on an Allegro 3977 chip, usually vaporizing a couple of pins from the chip
                          ( but the 3977 death does protect my fuses ;-).
                          With a regulated PS you should be protected from line voltage problems,
                          but stepper drivers do return power to the power supply when
                          de-accelerating an axis, with multiple motors powered usually not a concern
                          especially on small mills. To be really safe hang a big capacitor ( about
                          5000 -10000 mf per amp of one motor current) across the PS.
                          3977 chips are good but delicate, I've earned a living depending on
                          them but the next one which smokes gets replaced with a Gecko.

                          Jeff

                          *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

                          On 9/10/2006 at 5:19 PM Eduard Nesterov wrote:

                          >Hi everyone,
                          >
                          >My Xylotex was installed in aluminum case with HUGE fan and I ran it
                          >with 24V on my regulated PS. Every time I was milling something I was
                          >able to see the current and the voltage in the PS displays.
                          >The Kent's statement that Xylotex does not like plugging/unplugging
                          >motors when power is on made me to think about the only scenario why all
                          >this could happen. The only motor which moves together with mill's
                          >table/spindle is X, and this is the one which died. I do not have my
                          >motor connectors screwed to the sockets on the driver enclosure. What
                          >could happen is that for a millisecond X motor was disconnected and
                          >connected back which caused the Xylotex failure. Of course all this is
                          >just a speculation but I really need to understand what happened in
                          >order not to do it again.
                          >
                          >Ed
                          >
                          >Jeff Demand wrote:
                          >> I don't use Xylotex drives but have a lot of experience using the
                          >same
                          >> allegro 3977 chip in a home brew. The final circuit I settled on is very
                          >> much like the one Xylotex uses These chips are very intolerant of over
                          >> voltage! I have a rural power company which doesn't really care about
                          >> delivering 120V, running close to V max when they decide to deliver 135
                          >VAC
                          >> tends to let the magic smoke out. I settled on a nominal 28 V supply
                          >after
                          >> the second incident ;-). Disconnecting a motor while live, either by
                          >> accident or broken wire, is also really really fatal. I keep a few chips
                          >as
                          >> spares...
                          >> Lowest price option is buy another Xylotex and get this one repaired
                          >as
                          >> a spare, otherwise get Geckos. Over kill on a small mill, but very tough
                          >> with excellent performance (and a free replacement with full confession
                          >in
                          >> case you get really creatively destructive ). The company support is
                          also
                          >> the best I've ever encountered, Mariss (designer and company owner)
                          >spent a
                          >> good twenty minutes on the phone talking me through a trouble shooting
                          >> session, replaced the drive, and gave me one as a Prize for being the
                          >first
                          >> person to kill the then new 202.
                          >>
                          >> Jeff
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
                          >>
                          >> On 9/10/2006 at 5:16 PM nattyone960 wrote:
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>> --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Ferrell" <zero-kool@...> wrote:
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>>> keep a Xylotex cool and watch your VREF settings they give outstanding
                          >>>> service,
                          >>>>
                          >>>> No connection, just a very satisfied customer
                          >>>>
                          >>>> Ken Ferrell
                          >>>>
                          >>>>
                          >>>>
                          >>>>
                          >>> I think this is key. My first XYLO blew up, since it was not bought
                          >>> directly from XYLO I had to go back to the guy who sold me the mill.
                          >>> After months of running around I finally bought one on ebay and it has
                          >>> been working since.
                          >>>
                          >>> I replaced them with GECKOS, on my TAIG, but I will keep them on my
                          >>> Tiny Mill.
                          >>>
                          >>> The reason I replaced them?
                          >>> I discovered that a few seller who sell mill/drive combo do not
                          >>> understand the relationship between, Drive, Voltage and Electronics:
                          >>>
                          >>> 1.they use big motors that are underpowered when paired with the XYLO
                          >>> 2.use too large a PS, which will ruin the XYLO
                          >>> 3.even while they understand that the XYLO needs cooling, they fail to
                          >>> take into consideration that the XYLO works better in a Faraday Shield
                          >>> (the GECKOS don't need a fan under 10A and comes enclosed in it own
                          >>> Faraday Shield.)
                          >>> 4.it is better to have PS and Xylo separate, where enclosed in the same

                          >>> box make sure, the box is metal, or.... sheathed metal and that signal
                          >>> ground is separate from PS Ground.
                          >>> 3.if you are at or near the peak voltage setting of the XYLO set VREF
                          >>> lower than the recommended settings.
                          >>>
                          >>> This is what I have found personally and all or none may apply to the
                          >>> original poster or any other poster(s).
                          >>> I have no personal stake in XYlos operation.
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>
                          >> -
                          >> Demand Designs
                          >> Analog/Digital Modelling & Goldsmithing
                          >>
                          >> http://www.gmavt.net/~jdemand
                          >> jdemand@...
                          >> -
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                          >>
                          >> Let the chips fly!
                          >>
                          >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >
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                          >
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                        • Alex Holden
                          ... Don t you mean 5000-10000 uF (ie. 1000 times smaller)? -- ... If it doesn t work, you re not hitting it with a big enough hammer
                          Message 12 of 18 , Sep 11, 2006
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                            On 11 Sep 2006, at 00:24, Jeff Demand wrote:
                            > To be really safe hang a big capacitor ( about
                            > 5000 -10000 mf per amp of one motor current) across the PS.

                            Don't you mean 5000-10000 uF (ie. 1000 times smaller)?

                            --
                            ------------ Alex Holden - http://www.alexholden.net/ ------------
                            If it doesn't work, you're not hitting it with a big enough hammer
                          • mhberkson
                            That is above the limit. From the Xylotex data: The system motor drive circuitry can handle up to 35 volts which includes Back EMF (BEMF). The recommended
                            Message 13 of 18 , Sep 11, 2006
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                              That is above the limit. From the Xylotex data:

                              "The system motor drive circuitry can handle up to 35 volts which
                              includes Back EMF (BEMF). The recommended maximum running voltage is
                              30VDC."

                              Mitch

                              --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, John Trevick <john@...> wrote:

                              > I run about 32V which is close to the limit.
                            • John Trevick
                              yeah, actually the power supply was sized to be about 30VDC but my line voltage is a little high here so it produces a bit less than 32VDC. High but stable.
                              Message 14 of 18 , Sep 11, 2006
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                                yeah, actually the power supply was sized to be about 30VDC but my line
                                voltage is a little high here so it produces a bit less than 32VDC. High
                                but stable. When I built it I looked up the power company's specifications
                                and at their maximum upper voltage it would produce something like
                                34VDC. This goes back a couple of years and at the time I didn't really
                                understand about the back EMF. I know that now Jeff recommends 28V power
                                supply as the max. Everything is in a box with a fan and there is a
                                properly sized capacitor in the power supply and a big cap on the power
                                terminals of the board. After the blow up I put in the energy dump circuit.

                                Anyway, at the time my drive seemed to die unexpectedly (like the original
                                poster) but I don't see it as a fault of the product itself. I think it's
                                a good product, well priced, well supported. The number one killer of the
                                drive is mistakes in wiring which is also not the fault of the
                                product. You hear the same good comments about the gecko's and there are
                                some other good drives as well.

                                For me if I went with the more powerful gecko's I would upgrade my power
                                supply too which means even more expense. Something to keep in mind
                                compared to the fee to repair a Xylotex. At the time I'd just bought the
                                mill, some accessories and tooling but now I might think about upgrading
                                but I really don't need it.

                                - John

                                At 07:15 AM 9/11/2006, mhberkson wrote:

                                >That is above the limit. From the Xylotex data:
                                >
                                >"The system motor drive circuitry can handle up to 35 volts which
                                >includes Back EMF (BEMF). The recommended maximum running voltage is
                                >30VDC."
                                >
                                >Mitch
                                >
                                >--- In <mailto:taigtools%40yahoogroups.com>taigtools@yahoogroups.com, John
                                >Trevick <john@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > > I run about 32V which is close to the limit.
                                >
                                >
                              • combelis
                                ... Hi Ed, I have been using Xylotex for a year now, 150 Hours. I m very happy from this kit. I installed my kit in an old PC case. no heat problem. I also
                                Message 15 of 18 , Sep 15, 2006
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                                  --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "eduard_nesterov" <edn@...> wrote:

                                  Hi Ed,

                                  I have been using Xylotex for a year now, 150 Hours. I'm very happy
                                  from this kit. I installed my kit in an old PC case. no heat problem.
                                  I also heard that Jeff's service is good.

                                  Asi


                                  > Hello everybody,
                                  >
                                  > I need an advice. My Xylotex driver blew up today, after less then 1
                                  > year of sitting in my basement (~40 hours of work). I am not trying
                                  to
                                  > blame anybody just want to make a right choice. My options are:
                                  > - repair Xylotex board which will take ~ $55 and pretty long time.
                                  > - get a brand new driver.
                                  >
                                  > I am pretty sure that the reason why the existing driver blew up is
                                  > not over voltage or over current, or lack of cooling as I monitored
                                  > all this factors very closely. This leaves me with the thought that
                                  > even if I repair Xylotex there is no guarantee it will work as I
                                  expect.
                                  >
                                  > On the other hand no one can guarantee that driver from some other
                                  > vendor will be more reliable.
                                  >
                                  > I appreciate any thoughts and suggestions on the matter.
                                  > Thanks,
                                  > Ed
                                  >
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