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Re: [taigtools] Re: need advice on starter kits for taig DSLS 3000 Mill

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  • Rich Crook
    Bear in mind that a larger vise is going to sit higher on the table, thus limiting your Z travel range. You want to keep as low a profile as possible on a Taig
    Message 1 of 29 , Jul 4, 2006
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      Bear in mind that a larger vise is going to sit higher on the table,
      thus limiting your Z travel range.
      You want to keep as low a profile as possible on a Taig due to it's
      relatively short Z range (as compared to a knee mill, say.)

      You might want to take a look at TS Engineering's modular vise (Nick
      has a review of it on his website.)
      It is designed for Taig-sized machines.

      = Rich =

      >I am looking at vises now and see a wide array of styles, sizes and
      >prices. Most of the work I will be doing is aluminum and will be
      >under 3 or 4 " on a dimension. I was thinking about the screwless
      >vises but am unsure about size and brand. I would like to have a
      >quality unit but do not necessarily want to spend four times as much
      >for something that is not going to attribute to better cuts or ease of
      >use. Also is there a disadvantage to having a larger vise? Should I
      >just get a 5 or 6" and be covered?
    • douglas irving repetto
      Hi, Is there any reason to _not_ use my carbide endmills to mill wood? Seems like most wood (soft pine in this case) will be a lot gentler on the mills than
      Message 2 of 29 , Jul 6, 2006
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        Hi,

        Is there any reason to _not_ use my carbide endmills to mill wood?
        Seems like most wood (soft pine in this case) will be a lot gentler
        on the mills than metal, but I'm wondering if the resin or something
        might be bad for the mills? I'm not particularly worried about the
        resulting surface finish on the wood.


        Thanks,
        douglas


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      • Doug Stout
        Most professional EM s intended for CNC routers are carbide. High speed steel can be made MUCH sharper than carbide using a CBN grinding wheel, but I doubt if
        Message 3 of 29 , Jul 6, 2006
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          Most professional EM's intended for CNC routers are carbide. High speed
          steel can be made MUCH sharper than carbide using a CBN grinding wheel, but
          I doubt if you have an endmill grinder to resharpen your endmills anyway.
          When considering factory grinds only, there is little difference in
          sharpness.

          Carbide will last longer when milling plywood or particleboard, and will
          last dramatically longer when milling MDF.

          Certainly wood will not cause any undue harm to carbide.


          On 7/6/06, douglas irving repetto <douglas@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > Hi,
          >
          > Is there any reason to _not_ use my carbide endmills to mill wood?
          > Seems like most wood (soft pine in this case) will be a lot gentler
          > on the mills than metal, but I'm wondering if the resin or something
          > might be bad for the mills? I'm not particularly worried about the
          > resulting surface finish on the wood.
          >
          > Thanks,
          > douglas
          >
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          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Bad Brad
          Works great, most good wood spicific cutting tools are carbide. FBA ... From: douglas irving repetto Reply-To:
          Message 4 of 29 , Jul 6, 2006
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            Works great, most good wood spicific cutting tools are carbide.





            FBA




            ----Original Message Follows----
            From: douglas irving repetto <douglas@...>
            Reply-To: taigtools@yahoogroups.com
            To: taigtools@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [taigtools] using endmills for wood...
            Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 11:54:57 -0400


            Hi,

            Is there any reason to _not_ use my carbide endmills to mill wood?
            Seems like most wood (soft pine in this case) will be a lot gentler
            on the mills than metal, but I'm wondering if the resin or something
            might be bad for the mills? I'm not particularly worried about the
            resulting surface finish on the wood.


            Thanks,
            douglas


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          • douglas irving repetto
            Thanks Doug & Brad, that s what I figured. The endmills been working well on the wood, it s good to know I m not ruining them for metal! douglas --
            Message 5 of 29 , Jul 6, 2006
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              Thanks Doug & Brad, that's what I figured. The endmills been working
              well on the wood, it's good to know I'm not ruining them for metal!



              douglas


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            • Chris Ghent
              I have heard in conjunction to this; endmills may be better than router bits if you cannot get up to router speeds, as their spiral teeth design clears chips
              Message 6 of 29 , Jul 7, 2006
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                I have heard in conjunction to this; endmills may be better than router
                bits if you cannot get up to router speeds, as their spiral teeth design
                clears chips quicker than router bits which depend on their screaming
                speed to let their low angle non spiral cutters work. Can anyone comment
                on this? It is very relevant to the Taig mill as at top speed it is just
                fast enough or not quite fast enough to be a router, depending on how
                desperate you are.

                Chris


                > Posted by: "Doug Stout"
                > <mailto:kingshouse41225@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20using%20endmills%20for%20wood%2E%2E%2E>
                > <http://profiles.yahoo.com/kingshouse41225>
                >
                >
                > Thu Jul 6, 2006 10:34 am (PST)
                >
                > Most professional EM's intended for CNC routers are carbide. High speed
                > steel can be made MUCH sharper than carbide using a CBN grinding
                > wheel, but
                > I doubt if you have an endmill grinder to resharpen your endmills anyway.
                > When considering factory grinds only, there is little difference in
                > sharpness.
                >
                > Carbide will last longer when milling plywood or particleboard, and will
                > last dramatically longer when milling MDF.
                >
                > Certainly wood will not cause any undue harm to carbide.
                >
                > On 7/6/06, douglas irving repetto <douglas@...
                > <mailto:douglas%40music.columbia.edu>> wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > > Hi,
                > >
                > > Is there any reason to _not_ use my carbide endmills to mill wood?
                > > Seems like most wood (soft pine in this case) will be a lot gentler
                > > on the mills than metal, but I'm wondering if the resin or something
                > > might be bad for the mills? I'm not particularly worried about the
                > > resulting surface finish on the wood.
              • Bad Brad
                Be aware that wood will dull carbide and high speed steel with use just as metal does. FBA ... From: douglas irving repetto
                Message 7 of 29 , Jul 7, 2006
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                  Be aware that wood will dull carbide and high speed steel with use just as
                  metal does.





                  FBA




                  ----Original Message Follows----
                  From: douglas irving repetto <douglas@...>
                  Reply-To: taigtools@yahoogroups.com
                  To: taigtools@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [taigtools] using endmills for wood...
                  Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 15:49:17 -0400


                  Thanks Doug & Brad, that's what I figured. The endmills been working
                  well on the wood, it's good to know I'm not ruining them for metal!



                  douglas


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                • mojogrisgris
                  I have been collecting the parts to make a 28 x60 CNC Router table and while doing so have learned some tips about cutters for wood. Indeed most wood cutters
                  Message 8 of 29 , Jul 7, 2006
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                    I have been collecting the parts to make a 28"x60" CNC Router table
                    and while doing so have learned some tips about cutters for wood.
                    Indeed most wood cutters are carbide tipped or solid carbide because
                    they wear much slower than HSS in wood with high speed rotating
                    cutters. Most lathe chisels I see are HSS requiring more resharpening
                    but also allowing for easy resharpening and custom shaping of tips.

                    Now as for using EM's in wood you have to consider your mill spindle
                    speed compared to a router say 5000 rpm versus 28,000 rpm. Depending
                    on the type of wood being cut this can be more important than other
                    wood types with regard to splintering and tearing of the wood. They
                    have cutters that are called up cut spiral and down cut spiral with
                    various up/down angles. Depending on what type of cut your making
                    will determine which is best to go with the wood your using. Most
                    router bits are 2 cutter opposing sided and are expected to remove a
                    lot of wood quickly and leave a smooth finish thats why they spin so
                    fast but even then depending on the wood and type of cut you have to
                    vary the speed.

                    Even with fast router speeds the wood can still be pulled up away
                    from the wall of the cut as it gets cut not leaving you a nice sharp
                    edge. The downcut spiral will force the chips to be cut downward
                    helping eliminate the tendency to rip and splinter. Look around at
                    places like Veritas etc and you will see these cutters, they are
                    probably the same as high helix EMs.

                    When I cut wood with my mill I noticed on small EM's the flutes caked
                    up with sawdust quickly. This didn't seem to hurt anything as it
                    still cut but the finish was rough. Just think about how fine a piece
                    of sawdust can be cut and recut as a EM spins and you get the
                    picture. So just use plenty of flood cooling and you will be fine ;)
                    Just kidding OF COURSE.. I use a shopvac to clear chips as best I
                    can. Cutting wood take a lot of experimenting but then again thats
                    whats so fun, right? ;)

                    Hope this helps a little and that I was somewhat accurate in my
                    thoughts as I recall them. Check out CNCzone.com forums and you will
                    find a lot of info on this subject. I plan to use a 2.25 HP Hitachi
                    router on my table and I have seen many projects when guys put R8
                    spindles from mini mills on their router Z axis to allow a stiffer
                    setup and slower speed to cut metal on the router table.

                    Daniel







                    --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, douglas irving repetto
                    <douglas@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Hi,
                    >
                    > Is there any reason to _not_ use my carbide endmills to mill wood?
                    > Seems like most wood (soft pine in this case) will be a lot gentler
                    > on the mills than metal, but I'm wondering if the resin or
                    something
                    > might be bad for the mills? I'm not particularly worried about the
                    > resulting surface finish on the wood.
                    >
                    >
                    > Thanks,
                    > douglas
                    >
                    >
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                    >
                  • douglas irving repetto
                    Whew, well I just discovered a reason not to use a 5 flute EM for wood -- fire hazard! The chips it was producing were extremely small, and while doing a deep
                    Message 9 of 29 , Jul 9, 2006
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                      Whew, well I just discovered a reason not to use a 5 flute EM for
                      wood -- fire hazard! The chips it was producing were extremely small,
                      and while doing a deep round channel 1/4" at a time they built up and
                      caught on fire. Because they were so fine (almost dust) it didn't
                      take much heat to ignite them. Luckily I was nearby semi-paying
                      attention, and caught the fire before any damage was done (other than
                      to the wood piece)!

                      So that's a lesson -- watch out for deep pockets and very fine wood
                      dust from multi-flute EMs.


                      douglas

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                    • Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein
                      Are you using a vacuum while milling? You might want to add dust collection (well grounded to avoid fire!). ... -- felice@casco.net is Nicholas Carter and
                      Message 10 of 29 , Jul 9, 2006
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                        Are you using a vacuum while milling? You might want to add dust
                        collection (well grounded to avoid fire!).

                        douglas irving repetto wrote:
                        > Whew, well I just discovered a reason not to use a 5 flute EM for
                        > wood -- fire hazard! The chips it was producing were extremely small,
                        > and while doing a deep round channel 1/4" at a time they built up and
                        > caught on fire. Because they were so fine (almost dust) it didn't
                        > take much heat to ignite them. Luckily I was nearby semi-paying
                        > attention, and caught the fire before any damage was done (other than
                        > to the wood piece)!
                        >
                        > So that's a lesson -- watch out for deep pockets and very fine wood
                        > dust from multi-flute EMs.
                        >
                        >
                        > douglas
                        >

                        --
                        felice@... is Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein. See our
                        homepage at www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html
                      • douglas irving repetto
                        I m vacuuming by hand at regular intervals. I don t think that dust collection would have helped in this case, since I don t know how to get a vacuum nozzle
                        Message 11 of 29 , Jul 9, 2006
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                          I'm vacuuming by hand at regular intervals. I don't think that dust
                          collection would have helped in this case, since I don't know how to
                          get a vacuum nozzle down into a deep channel while milling. There
                          doesn't seem to be a flood coolant analog for woodchip clearing...

                          At 1:26 PM -0700 7/9/06, Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein wrote:
                          >Are you using a vacuum while milling? You might want to add dust
                          >collection (well grounded to avoid fire!).
                          >
                          >douglas irving repetto wrote:
                          >> Whew, well I just discovered a reason not to use a 5 flute EM for
                          >> wood -- fire hazard! The chips it was producing were extremely small,
                          >> and while doing a deep round channel 1/4" at a time they built up and
                          >> caught on fire. Because they were so fine (almost dust) it didn't
                          >> take much heat to ignite them. Luckily I was nearby semi-paying
                          >> attention, and caught the fire before any damage was done (other than
                          >> to the wood piece)!
                          >>
                          >> So that's a lesson -- watch out for deep pockets and very fine wood
                          >> dust from multi-flute EMs.
                          >>
                          >>
                          > > douglas
                          >>

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                        • Steve Blackmore
                          ... Doesn t make a heap of difference really if you vacuum or not, your still going to overheat the work and the tool unless you feed very quickly. Most wood
                          Message 12 of 29 , Jul 9, 2006
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                            On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 13:26:53 -0700, you wrote:

                            >Are you using a vacuum while milling? You might want to add dust
                            >collection (well grounded to avoid fire!).
                            >
                            >douglas irving repetto wrote:
                            >> Whew, well I just discovered a reason not to use a 5 flute EM for
                            >> wood -- fire hazard! The chips it was producing were extremely small,
                            >> and while doing a deep round channel 1/4" at a time they built up and
                            >> caught on fire.

                            Doesn't make a heap of difference really if you vacuum or not, your
                            still going to overheat the work and the tool unless you feed very
                            quickly.

                            Most wood routers run at 15-25K rpm, they use two flute cutters. To run
                            a 5 flute, you'd have run 2.5x the feedrate for the same spindle speed,
                            no Taig is ever going to do that.

                            Unless you cut and clear the chips cleanly, you overheat the work and
                            the tool, a nasty spiral. I've seen many examples of burn marks on
                            "finished" wood jobs, when they should really have been consigned to the
                            bin as failures. Burns or charring are not the norm and can be avoided
                            by cutting within the limits of your machine and cutter.

                            Look at the following figures. I've no data for wood, but the theory is
                            the same. I've stuck to the same spindle speed, the feed required is
                            2.5x as much for a 5 flute cutter, you remove 2.5x the material BUT the
                            power required has gone up by 2.5 too!!

                            The moral of the story is - you don't get anything for nothing, more
                            flutes is not always (in fact, rarely) a good thing. To cut efficiently
                            you still need to remove the optimum amount of material PER TOOTH.

                            If your speed and feed are limited by the design of your machine,
                            generally speaking, the less teeth the better ;)

                            MATERIAL= Wrought Aluminium Alloys
                            SURFACE SPEED= 851 FPM
                            ENDMILL MATERIAL= CARBIDE
                            ENDMILL DIAMETER= 0.5 inches 12.7 mm
                            LOAD PER FLUTE= 0.0055 inches
                            NUMBER OF FLUTES= 2
                            SPINDLE SPEED= 6501.2 RPM
                            FEEDRATE= 71.51277 IPM 1816.42442 mmPM
                            MAX Radial Depth of Cut= 0.2 inches
                            MAX Axial Depth of Cut= 0.425 inches
                            MATERIAL REMOVAL RATE= 6.07859 in³/min
                            MATERIAL POWER CONSTANT= 0.33
                            REQUIRED HORSEPOWER= 2.35992

                            MATERIAL= Wrought Aluminium Alloys
                            SURFACE SPEED= 851 FPM
                            ENDMILL MATERIAL= CARBIDE
                            ENDMILL DIAMETER= 0.5 inches 12.7 mm
                            LOAD PER FLUTE= 0.0055 inches
                            NUMBER OF FLUTES= 5
                            SPINDLE SPEED= 6501.2 RPM
                            FEEDRATE= 178.78193 IPM 4541.06104 mmPM
                            MAX Radial Depth of Cut= 0.2 inches
                            MAX Axial Depth of Cut= 0.425 inches
                            MATERIAL REMOVAL RATE= 15.19646 in³/min
                            MATERIAL POWER CONSTANT= 0.33
                            REQUIRED HORSEPOWER= 5.8998


                            Steve Blackmore
                            --
                          • douglas irving repetto
                            Thanks Steve, that makes a lot of sense. I actually slowed the feed speed down, because I was losing lots of steps on a tight arc. But now I see that I wasn t
                            Message 13 of 29 , Jul 9, 2006
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                              Thanks Steve, that makes a lot of sense. I actually slowed the feed
                              speed down, because I was losing lots of steps on a tight arc. But
                              now I see that I wasn't thinking correctly about the relationship
                              between number of flutes, spindle speed, and feed speed. Good stuff!

                              I think I'll stick to metal with my 5 flutes. I've been experimenting
                              with 2 flute router bits in the Taig, and they seem to work well
                              enough, although I can tell that they'd like a faster spindle speed.


                              douglas


                              >On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 13:26:53 -0700, you wrote:
                              >
                              >>Are you using a vacuum while milling? You might want to add dust
                              >>collection (well grounded to avoid fire!).
                              >>
                              >>douglas irving repetto wrote:
                              >>> Whew, well I just discovered a reason not to use a 5 flute EM for
                              >>> wood -- fire hazard! The chips it was producing were extremely small,
                              >>> and while doing a deep round channel 1/4" at a time they built up and
                              >>> caught on fire.
                              >
                              >Doesn't make a heap of difference really if you vacuum or not, your
                              >still going to overheat the work and the tool unless you feed very
                              >quickly.
                              >
                              >Most wood routers run at 15-25K rpm, they use two flute cutters. To run
                              >a 5 flute, you'd have run 2.5x the feedrate for the same spindle speed,
                              >no Taig is ever going to do that.
                              >
                              >Unless you cut and clear the chips cleanly, you overheat the work and
                              >the tool, a nasty spiral. I've seen many examples of burn marks on
                              >"finished" wood jobs, when they should really have been consigned to the
                              >bin as failures. Burns or charring are not the norm and can be avoided
                              >by cutting within the limits of your machine and cutter.
                              >
                              >Look at the following figures. I've no data for wood, but the theory is
                              >the same. I've stuck to the same spindle speed, the feed required is
                              >2.5x as much for a 5 flute cutter, you remove 2.5x the material BUT the
                              >power required has gone up by 2.5 too!!
                              >
                              >The moral of the story is - you don't get anything for nothing, more
                              >flutes is not always (in fact, rarely) a good thing. To cut efficiently
                              >you still need to remove the optimum amount of material PER TOOTH.
                              >
                              >If your speed and feed are limited by the design of your machine,
                              >generally speaking, the less teeth the better ;)
                              >
                              >MATERIAL= Wrought Aluminium Alloys
                              >SURFACE SPEED= 851 FPM
                              >ENDMILL MATERIAL= CARBIDE
                              >ENDMILL DIAMETER= 0.5 inches 12.7 mm
                              >LOAD PER FLUTE= 0.0055 inches
                              >NUMBER OF FLUTES= 2
                              >SPINDLE SPEED= 6501.2 RPM
                              >FEEDRATE= 71.51277 IPM 1816.42442 mmPM
                              >MAX Radial Depth of Cut= 0.2 inches
                              >MAX Axial Depth of Cut= 0.425 inches
                              >MATERIAL REMOVAL RATE= 6.07859 in"/min
                              >MATERIAL POWER CONSTANT= 0.33
                              >REQUIRED HORSEPOWER= 2.35992
                              >
                              >MATERIAL= Wrought Aluminium Alloys
                              >SURFACE SPEED= 851 FPM
                              >ENDMILL MATERIAL= CARBIDE
                              >ENDMILL DIAMETER= 0.5 inches 12.7 mm
                              >LOAD PER FLUTE= 0.0055 inches
                              >NUMBER OF FLUTES= 5
                              >SPINDLE SPEED= 6501.2 RPM
                              >FEEDRATE= 178.78193 IPM 4541.06104 mmPM
                              >MAX Radial Depth of Cut= 0.2 inches
                              >MAX Axial Depth of Cut= 0.425 inches
                              >MATERIAL REMOVAL RATE= 15.19646 in"/min
                              >MATERIAL POWER CONSTANT= 0.33
                              >REQUIRED HORSEPOWER= 5.8998
                              >
                              >
                              >Steve Blackmore
                              >--
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >To Post a message, send it to: taigtools@...
                              >
                              >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: taigtools-unsubscribe@...
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >Let the chips fly!
                              >
                              >Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >


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                            • douglas irving repetto
                              Hi, I m trying to figure out how to mill out stamping blocks with words on them. It s easy enough to generate gcode for words using DeskEngrave or a wizard in
                              Message 14 of 29 , Jul 15, 2006
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                                Hi,

                                I'm trying to figure out how to mill out stamping blocks with words
                                on them. It's easy enough to generate gcode for words using
                                DeskEngrave or a wizard in Mach3, but the resulting code only
                                generates the outline of the words. I'm having trouble figuring out
                                how to efficiently mill away the rest of the surface so the words are
                                an island, rather than just an engraving. Does that make sense?

                                So far I'm thinking that I can create an island that's just a bit
                                bigger than the finished dimension of the word, so that at least most
                                of the extra surface will be gone, then I'll mill out/deeply engrave
                                the outline of the word, then I'll mill away the remaining extra
                                surface by hand.

                                I know that I could do this all at once by treating the word as an
                                shape and just milling line by line across X, but the quality will be
                                much better if I can cut out the words as arcs and lines.

                                Has anyone done this? Is there some simple answer that I'm missing?!?

                                thanks
                                douglas


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                              • Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein
                                You need to make the outline of the stamp (whether circular or rectangular) a pocket (a pocket with no walls) and the outlines of the letters the islands. Each
                                Message 15 of 29 , Jul 15, 2006
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                                  You need to make the outline of the stamp (whether circular or
                                  rectangular) a pocket (a pocket with no walls) and the outlines of the
                                  letters the islands. Each letter is an island. For letters with holes
                                  (a, o, d, etc) you also need to pocket out the hole.
                                  This is best done with a 2-1/2 axis CAM program...


                                  douglas irving repetto wrote:
                                  > Hi,
                                  >
                                  > I'm trying to figure out how to mill out stamping blocks with words
                                  > on them. It's easy enough to generate gcode for words using
                                  > DeskEngrave or a wizard in Mach3, but the resulting code only
                                  > generates the outline of the words. I'm having trouble figuring out
                                  > how to efficiently mill away the rest of the surface so the words are
                                  > an island, rather than just an engraving. Does that make sense?
                                  >
                                  > So far I'm thinking that I can create an island that's just a bit
                                  > bigger than the finished dimension of the word, so that at least most
                                  > of the extra surface will be gone, then I'll mill out/deeply engrave
                                  > the outline of the word, then I'll mill away the remaining extra
                                  > surface by hand.
                                  >
                                  > I know that I could do this all at once by treating the word as an
                                  > shape and just milling line by line across X, but the quality will be
                                  > much better if I can cut out the words as arcs and lines.
                                  >
                                  > Has anyone done this? Is there some simple answer that I'm missing?!?
                                  >
                                  > thanks
                                  > douglas
                                  >
                                  >

                                  --
                                  felice@... is Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein. See our
                                  homepage at www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html
                                • Doug Stout
                                  I have used MasterCam Router to create both engraved and raised signs directly from text, but it is a costly solution to the problem. AutoCAD, and similar
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Jul 15, 2006
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I have used MasterCam Router to create both engraved and raised signs
                                    directly from text, but it is a costly solution to the problem. AutoCAD,
                                    and similar free cad programs, does not export text as a vector, but you can
                                    easily pick a font that has some width and draw over the outling on the
                                    screen, giving you a vector outline that is nothing but arcs and lines, and
                                    then delete the text. If you don't have a CAD program there are plenty of
                                    free ones out there. Proge CAD is so identical to AutoCAD that the two can
                                    open and modify each other's files.

                                    On 7/15/06, Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein <felice@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > You need to make the outline of the stamp (whether circular or
                                    > rectangular) a pocket (a pocket with no walls) and the outlines of the
                                    > letters the islands. Each letter is an island. For letters with holes
                                    > (a, o, d, etc) you also need to pocket out the hole.
                                    > This is best done with a 2-1/2 axis CAM program...
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > douglas irving repetto wrote:
                                    > > Hi,
                                    > >
                                    > > I'm trying to figure out how to mill out stamping blocks with words
                                    > > on them. It's easy enough to generate gcode for words using
                                    > > DeskEngrave or a wizard in Mach3, but the resulting code only
                                    > > generates the outline of the words. I'm having trouble figuring out
                                    > > how to efficiently mill away the rest of the surface so the words are
                                    > > an island, rather than just an engraving. Does that make sense?
                                    > >
                                    > > So far I'm thinking that I can create an island that's just a bit
                                    > > bigger than the finished dimension of the word, so that at least most
                                    > > of the extra surface will be gone, then I'll mill out/deeply engrave
                                    > > the outline of the word, then I'll mill away the remaining extra
                                    > > surface by hand.
                                    > >
                                    > > I know that I could do this all at once by treating the word as an
                                    > > shape and just milling line by line across X, but the quality will be
                                    > > much better if I can cut out the words as arcs and lines.
                                    > >
                                    > > Has anyone done this? Is there some simple answer that I'm missing?!?
                                    > >
                                    > > thanks
                                    > > douglas
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    > --
                                    > felice@... <felice%40casco.net> is Nicholas Carter and Felice
                                    > Luftschein. See our
                                    > homepage at www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • douglas irving repetto
                                    Hi Nick, Thanks for the advice. I think I understand what you re saying, but doesn t that mean that I d be stuck with raster milling across one axis? That s
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Jul 15, 2006
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                                      Hi Nick,

                                      Thanks for the advice. I think I understand what you're saying, but
                                      doesn't that mean that I'd be stuck with raster milling across one
                                      axis? That's what I'm doing right now (exporting from CAD, generating
                                      X axis toolpath in DeskProto), and the results aren't great. I guess
                                      what I'm talking about is finding a way to treat the text as vectors,
                                      which I can do fine when I'm just doing one pass engraving. The
                                      curves are nice and smooth. The problem is that after the letters are
                                      cut out as vectors, there's still a lot of material that needs to be
                                      removed, since the vectors only give me the immediate shapes of the
                                      letters, not the shapes of the negative space around the letters.

                                      Or maybe I'm misunderstanding what you've said below?


                                      Thanks,
                                      douglas



                                      >You need to make the outline of the stamp (whether circular or
                                      >rectangular) a pocket (a pocket with no walls) and the outlines of the
                                      >letters the islands. Each letter is an island. For letters with holes
                                      >(a, o, d, etc) you also need to pocket out the hole.
                                      >This is best done with a 2-1/2 axis CAM program...
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >douglas irving repetto wrote:
                                      >> Hi,
                                      >>
                                      >> I'm trying to figure out how to mill out stamping blocks with words
                                      >> on them. It's easy enough to generate gcode for words using
                                      >> DeskEngrave or a wizard in Mach3, but the resulting code only
                                      >> generates the outline of the words. I'm having trouble figuring out
                                      >> how to efficiently mill away the rest of the surface so the words are
                                      >> an island, rather than just an engraving. Does that make sense?
                                      >>
                                      >> So far I'm thinking that I can create an island that's just a bit
                                      >> bigger than the finished dimension of the word, so that at least most
                                      >> of the extra surface will be gone, then I'll mill out/deeply engrave
                                      >> the outline of the word, then I'll mill away the remaining extra
                                      >> surface by hand.
                                      >>
                                      >> I know that I could do this all at once by treating the word as an
                                      >> shape and just milling line by line across X, but the quality will be
                                      >> much better if I can cut out the words as arcs and lines.
                                      >>
                                      >> Has anyone done this? Is there some simple answer that I'm missing?!?
                                      >>
                                      >> thanks
                                      >> douglas
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >--
                                      >felice@... is Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein. See our
                                      >homepage at www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >To Post a message, send it to: taigtools@...
                                      >
                                      >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: taigtools-unsubscribe@...
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >Let the chips fly!
                                      >
                                      >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >


                                      --
                                      ............................................... http://artbots.org
                                      .....douglas.....irving........................ http://dorkbot.org
                                      .......................... http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp
                                      .......... repetto....... http://works.music.columbia.edu/organism
                                      ............................... http://music.columbia.edu/~douglas
                                    • douglas irving repetto
                                      Hi Doug, Thanks for the info. I think that I m stuck on the part where I need to get the CAM application to treat the lines/arcs as vectors rather than as
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Jul 15, 2006
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                                        Hi Doug,

                                        Thanks for the info. I think that I'm stuck on the part where I need
                                        to get the CAM application to treat the lines/arcs as vectors rather
                                        than as something to be rasterized. I'm using Deskproto and .stl
                                        files exported from SketchUp (although I've also tried some other low
                                        cost CAD apps). Until now I've mostly been writing the gcode myself,
                                        using G2 for nice arcs and G1 for straight lines. That gives me nice
                                        smooth surfaces. But the model->gcode conversion software I've played
                                        with so far all seems to want to rasterize things, rather than
                                        treating them as arcs+lines. That is, they all want to do everything
                                        with G1, moving across one axis and moving Z up and down.

                                        I know very little (obviously) about CAM software, so maybe this is
                                        completely normal? I'm realizing that treating the final shape as a
                                        vector is fine for engraving, but if you want to remove all of the
                                        other material around that shape it's not so simple. So maybe I
                                        should be doing a rasterized roughing pass and then somehow a
                                        vector-based final pass?

                                        Or am I completely clueless?

                                        Thanks!

                                        douglas


                                        >I have used MasterCam Router to create both engraved and raised signs
                                        >directly from text, but it is a costly solution to the problem. AutoCAD,
                                        >and similar free cad programs, does not export text as a vector, but you can
                                        >easily pick a font that has some width and draw over the outling on the
                                        >screen, giving you a vector outline that is nothing but arcs and lines, and
                                        >then delete the text. If you don't have a CAD program there are plenty of
                                        >free ones out there. Proge CAD is so identical to AutoCAD that the two can
                                        >open and modify each other's files.
                                        >
                                        >On 7/15/06, Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein <felice@...> wrote:
                                        >>
                                        >> You need to make the outline of the stamp (whether circular or
                                        >> rectangular) a pocket (a pocket with no walls) and the outlines of the
                                        >> letters the islands. Each letter is an island. For letters with holes
                                        >> (a, o, d, etc) you also need to pocket out the hole.
                                        >> This is best done with a 2-1/2 axis CAM program...
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >> douglas irving repetto wrote:
                                        >> > Hi,
                                        >> >
                                        >> > I'm trying to figure out how to mill out stamping blocks with words
                                        >> > on them. It's easy enough to generate gcode for words using
                                        >> > DeskEngrave or a wizard in Mach3, but the resulting code only
                                        >> > generates the outline of the words. I'm having trouble figuring out
                                        >> > how to efficiently mill away the rest of the surface so the words are
                                        >> > an island, rather than just an engraving. Does that make sense?
                                        >> >
                                        >> > So far I'm thinking that I can create an island that's just a bit
                                        >> > bigger than the finished dimension of the word, so that at least most
                                        >> > of the extra surface will be gone, then I'll mill out/deeply engrave
                                        >> > the outline of the word, then I'll mill away the remaining extra
                                        >> > surface by hand.
                                        >> >
                                        >> > I know that I could do this all at once by treating the word as an
                                        >> > shape and just milling line by line across X, but the quality will be
                                        >> > much better if I can cut out the words as arcs and lines.
                                        >> >
                                        >> > Has anyone done this? Is there some simple answer that I'm missing?!?
                                        >> >
                                        >> > thanks
                                        >> > douglas
                                        >> >
                                        >> >
                                        >>
                                        >> --
                                        >> felice@... <felice%40casco.net> is Nicholas Carter and Felice
                                        >> Luftschein. See our
                                        >> homepage at www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >To Post a message, send it to: taigtools@...
                                        >
                                        >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: taigtools-unsubscribe@...
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >Let the chips fly!
                                        >
                                        >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >


                                        --
                                        ............................................... http://artbots.org
                                        .....douglas.....irving........................ http://dorkbot.org
                                        .......................... http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp
                                        .......... repetto....... http://works.music.columbia.edu/organism
                                        ............................... http://music.columbia.edu/~douglas
                                      • Doug Stout
                                        Getting a vector outline of the text is the first step. CAM software really would help because it would generate all of the roughing/finishing toolpaths for
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Jul 15, 2006
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                                          Getting a vector outline of the text is the first step. CAM software really
                                          would help because it would generate all of the roughing/finishing toolpaths
                                          for you. You could do this all in CAD and then write the g-code yourself -
                                          I have - but it takes time. You just need to visualize the paths the tool
                                          would make in removing the material, draw lines, program that as rough, then
                                          program your outlines as finish. Making a small item might not be too bad,
                                          but creating the rough toolpaths for a large object is really a job for CAM
                                          software.

                                          On 7/15/06, douglas irving repetto <douglas@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Hi Doug,
                                          >
                                          > Thanks for the info. I think that I'm stuck on the part where I need
                                          > to get the CAM application to treat the lines/arcs as vectors rather
                                          > than as something to be rasterized. I'm using Deskproto and .stl
                                          > files exported from SketchUp (although I've also tried some other low
                                          > cost CAD apps). Until now I've mostly been writing the gcode myself,
                                          > using G2 for nice arcs and G1 for straight lines. That gives me nice
                                          > smooth surfaces. But the model->gcode conversion software I've played
                                          > with so far all seems to want to rasterize things, rather than
                                          > treating them as arcs+lines. That is, they all want to do everything
                                          > with G1, moving across one axis and moving Z up and down.
                                          >
                                          > I know very little (obviously) about CAM software, so maybe this is
                                          > completely normal? I'm realizing that treating the final shape as a
                                          > vector is fine for engraving, but if you want to remove all of the
                                          > other material around that shape it's not so simple. So maybe I
                                          > should be doing a rasterized roughing pass and then somehow a
                                          > vector-based final pass?
                                          >
                                          > Or am I completely clueless?
                                          >
                                          > Thanks!
                                          >
                                          > douglas
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > >I have used MasterCam Router to create both engraved and raised signs
                                          > >directly from text, but it is a costly solution to the problem. AutoCAD,
                                          > >and similar free cad programs, does not export text as a vector, but you
                                          > can
                                          > >easily pick a font that has some width and draw over the outling on the
                                          > >screen, giving you a vector outline that is nothing but arcs and lines,
                                          > and
                                          > >then delete the text. If you don't have a CAD program there are plenty of
                                          > >free ones out there. Proge CAD is so identical to AutoCAD that the two
                                          > can
                                          > >open and modify each other's files.
                                          > >
                                          > >On 7/15/06, Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein <felice@...<felice%40casco.net>>
                                          > wrote:
                                          > >>
                                          > >> You need to make the outline of the stamp (whether circular or
                                          > >> rectangular) a pocket (a pocket with no walls) and the outlines of the
                                          > >> letters the islands. Each letter is an island. For letters with holes
                                          > >> (a, o, d, etc) you also need to pocket out the hole.
                                          > >> This is best done with a 2-1/2 axis CAM program...
                                          > >>
                                          > >>
                                          > >> douglas irving repetto wrote:
                                          > >> > Hi,
                                          > >> >
                                          > >> > I'm trying to figure out how to mill out stamping blocks with words
                                          > >> > on them. It's easy enough to generate gcode for words using
                                          > >> > DeskEngrave or a wizard in Mach3, but the resulting code only
                                          > >> > generates the outline of the words. I'm having trouble figuring out
                                          > >> > how to efficiently mill away the rest of the surface so the words are
                                          > >> > an island, rather than just an engraving. Does that make sense?
                                          > >> >
                                          > >> > So far I'm thinking that I can create an island that's just a bit
                                          > >> > bigger than the finished dimension of the word, so that at least most
                                          > >> > of the extra surface will be gone, then I'll mill out/deeply engrave
                                          > >> > the outline of the word, then I'll mill away the remaining extra
                                          > >> > surface by hand.
                                          > >> >
                                          > >> > I know that I could do this all at once by treating the word as an
                                          > >> > shape and just milling line by line across X, but the quality will be
                                          > >> > much better if I can cut out the words as arcs and lines.
                                          > >> >
                                          > >> > Has anyone done this? Is there some simple answer that I'm missing?!?
                                          > >> >
                                          > >> > thanks
                                          > >> > douglas
                                          > >> >
                                          > >> >
                                          > >>
                                          > >> --
                                          > >> felice@... <felice%40casco.net> <felice%40casco.net> is Nicholas
                                          > Carter and Felice
                                          >
                                          > >> Luftschein. See our
                                          > >> homepage at www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html
                                          > >>
                                          > >>
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >To Post a message, send it to: taigtools@...<taigtools%40eGroups.com>
                                          > >
                                          > >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                                          > taigtools-unsubscribe@... <taigtools-unsubscribe%40eGroups.com>
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >Let the chips fly!
                                          > >
                                          > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          > --
                                          > ............................................... http://artbots.org
                                          > .....douglas.....irving........................ http://dorkbot.org
                                          > .......................... http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp
                                          > .......... repetto....... http://works.music.columbia.edu/organism
                                          > ............................... http://music.columbia.edu/~douglas
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >


                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • cncinterest
                                          Hi Doug, Try creating your letters as solids (.stl) in a program like Rhino (trial version available at www.rhino3d.com) then use the waterline milling
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Jul 16, 2006
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                                            Hi Doug,

                                            Try creating your letters as solids (.stl) in a program like Rhino
                                            (trial version available at www.rhino3d.com) then use the waterline
                                            milling stratgey in deskproto (3D operation parameters strategy tab).
                                            Then, if necessary, you can create the letters contours as lines
                                            (.dxf) also in Rhino to clean up the walls in deskproto (2D
                                            operation). I use Rhino and Deskproto.

                                            Regards,
                                            Jim

                                            --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, douglas irving repetto <douglas@...>
                                            wrote:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Hi,
                                            >
                                            > I'm trying to figure out how to mill out stamping blocks with words
                                            > on them. It's easy enough to generate gcode for words using
                                            > DeskEngrave or a wizard in Mach3, but the resulting code only
                                            > generates the outline of the words. I'm having trouble figuring out
                                            > how to efficiently mill away the rest of the surface so the words are
                                            > an island, rather than just an engraving. Does that make sense?
                                            >
                                            > So far I'm thinking that I can create an island that's just a bit
                                            > bigger than the finished dimension of the word, so that at least most
                                            > of the extra surface will be gone, then I'll mill out/deeply engrave
                                            > the outline of the word, then I'll mill away the remaining extra
                                            > surface by hand.
                                            >
                                            > I know that I could do this all at once by treating the word as an
                                            > shape and just milling line by line across X, but the quality will be
                                            > much better if I can cut out the words as arcs and lines.
                                            >
                                            > Has anyone done this? Is there some simple answer that I'm missing?!?
                                            >
                                            > thanks
                                            > douglas
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > --
                                            > ............................................... http://artbots.org
                                            > .....douglas.....irving........................ http://dorkbot.org
                                            > .......................... http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp
                                            > .......... repetto....... http://works.music.columbia.edu/organism
                                            > ............................... http://music.columbia.edu/~douglas
                                            >
                                          • Ken Gastineau
                                            Douglas: Take a look at Sheetcam. I use it to make stamps just like you are talking about. You have to do the design work in something like CorelDraw. There is
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Jul 16, 2006
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Douglas:

                                              Take a look at Sheetcam. I use it to make stamps just like you are talking about. You have to do the design work in something like CorelDraw. There is a fully funtional trial version available at www.sheetcam.com. Nothing like trying before you buy.

                                              Ken Gastineau
                                              Gastineau Studio
                                              Berea, Kentucky

                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: douglas irving repetto
                                              To: taigtools@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 2:32 PM
                                              Subject: [taigtools] milling word stamps



                                              Hi,

                                              I'm trying to figure out how to mill out stamping blocks with words
                                              on them. It's easy enough to generate gcode for words using
                                              DeskEngrave or a wizard in Mach3, but the resulting code only
                                              generates the outline of the words. I'm having trouble figuring out
                                              how to efficiently mill away the rest of the surface so the words are
                                              an island, rather than just an engraving. Does that make sense?

                                              So far I'm thinking that I can create an island that's just a bit
                                              bigger than the finished dimension of the word, so that at least most
                                              of the extra surface will be gone, then I'll mill out/deeply engrave
                                              the outline of the word, then I'll mill away the remaining extra
                                              surface by hand.

                                              I know that I could do this all at once by treating the word as an
                                              shape and just milling line by line across X, but the quality will be
                                              much better if I can cut out the words as arcs and lines.

                                              Has anyone done this? Is there some simple answer that I'm missing?!?

                                              thanks
                                              douglas

                                              --
                                              ................................................ http://artbots.org
                                              ......douglas.....irving........................ http://dorkbot.org
                                              ........................... http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp
                                              ........... repetto....... http://works.music.columbia.edu/organism
                                              ................................ http://music.columbia.edu/~douglas




                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • douglas irving repetto
                                              Aha!!! That s the part I was missing, waterline milling! Now it all makes complete sense. Thanks to everyone for the hints, I m really just learning the
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Jul 16, 2006
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Aha!!! That's the part I was missing, waterline milling! Now it all
                                                makes complete sense. Thanks to everyone for the hints, I'm really
                                                just learning the physical side of CAD/CAM, and this list is a
                                                terrific, friendly resource. Thanks!

                                                Btw, I'm going from SketchUp Pro -> dxf -> Deskproto -> Mach3 and
                                                it's working great now!


                                                douglas



                                                >Hi Doug,
                                                >
                                                >Try creating your letters as solids (.stl) in a program like Rhino
                                                >(trial version available at www.rhino3d.com) then use the waterline
                                                >milling stratgey in deskproto (3D operation parameters strategy tab).
                                                >Then, if necessary, you can create the letters contours as lines
                                                >(.dxf) also in Rhino to clean up the walls in deskproto (2D
                                                >operation). I use Rhino and Deskproto.
                                                >
                                                >Regards,
                                                >Jim
                                                >
                                                >--- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, douglas irving repetto <douglas@...>
                                                >wrote:
                                                >>
                                                >>
                                                >> Hi,
                                                >>
                                                >> I'm trying to figure out how to mill out stamping blocks with words
                                                >> on them. It's easy enough to generate gcode for words using
                                                >> DeskEngrave or a wizard in Mach3, but the resulting code only
                                                >> generates the outline of the words. I'm having trouble figuring out
                                                >> how to efficiently mill away the rest of the surface so the words are
                                                >> an island, rather than just an engraving. Does that make sense?
                                                >>
                                                >> So far I'm thinking that I can create an island that's just a bit
                                                >> bigger than the finished dimension of the word, so that at least most
                                                >> of the extra surface will be gone, then I'll mill out/deeply engrave
                                                >> the outline of the word, then I'll mill away the remaining extra
                                                >> surface by hand.
                                                >>
                                                >> I know that I could do this all at once by treating the word as an
                                                >> shape and just milling line by line across X, but the quality will be
                                                >> much better if I can cut out the words as arcs and lines.
                                                >>
                                                >> Has anyone done this? Is there some simple answer that I'm missing?!?
                                                >>
                                                >> thanks
                                                >> douglas
                                                >>
                                                >>
                                                >> --
                                                >> ............................................... http://artbots.org
                                                >> .....douglas.....irving........................ http://dorkbot.org
                                                >> .......................... http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp
                                                >> .......... repetto....... http://works.music.columbia.edu/organism
                                                >> ............................... http://music.columbia.edu/~douglas
                                                >>
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >To Post a message, send it to: taigtools@...
                                                >
                                                >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: taigtools-unsubscribe@...
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >Let the chips fly!
                                                >
                                                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >


                                                --
                                                ............................................... http://artbots.org
                                                .....douglas.....irving........................ http://dorkbot.org
                                                .......................... http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp
                                                .......... repetto....... http://works.music.columbia.edu/organism
                                                ............................... http://music.columbia.edu/~douglas
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