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Re: [taigtools] Re: Ballscrew conversion on taig mill

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  • Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein
    Looks like overkill, although I m assuming he s going to be trying for high feedrates... Taig already puts some scraping marks in for oil...but it would make
    Message 1 of 16 , Nov 1, 2005
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      Looks like overkill, although I'm assuming he's going to be trying for
      high feedrates...
      Taig already puts some scraping marks in for oil...but it would make
      oiling the slides easier.

      benedict-list@... wrote:
      > Good to hear all these responses. Andrew, I'd totally forgotten about
      > preload. DOH! Thanks for catching that.
      >
      > Nick, I'm curious what you thought of the oil hole and groove arrangement
      > that was done on the mill.
      >
      > Tom


      --
      felice@... is Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein. See our
      homepage at www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html
    • doanwannapickle
      Hi all, I had this old thread pointed out to me so I thought I d dredge it up and try to answer everyone at once. ... All those pictures and you want words
      Message 2 of 16 , Jan 9, 2008
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        Hi all,

        I had this old thread pointed out to me so I thought I'd dredge it up
        and try to answer everyone at once.

        >Sure wish we could find some words to go along with that set of photos.

        All those pictures and you want words too? Just never satisfied.

        >The drive motorS is very interesting. Has anyone on the list tried the
        dual motor setup?

        I really disliked the OEM drive setup. All that cantilevered weight
        is really hard on the gibs. Since those photos I upgraded to the same
        type motors but bigger. It was a little underpowered for my liking.
        The downside is putting permanent magnet motors so close to the cutter
        when doing steel. Otherwise, I've been very pleased with the setup.
        The dual range is easy to change and gives me lots of power or lots of
        speed.

        >Nice set of pictures!

        Thanks. I'm never happy with my pictures.

        >[It doesn't make much sense to me. It looks like that person went
        through a
        lot of work, just to install rolled ballscrews with no preload on the
        nuts.
        That won't eliminate backlash, and the basic accuracy of that that type of
        screw (+/-.004"/ft) is not as good as the standard Taig screws. While they
        will transfer motion more efficiently, that's not usually a problem on a
        Taig, if the motors are standard-size (200 oz/in) or better. Am I missing
        something here?]

        Ball screws are simply better, that's why all the manufacturers use
        them. That isn't to say the OEM screws aren't good. The Taig screws
        are excellent for the money you're paying. The entire machine is an
        amazing value as is and even better as a base to build on.
        The screws I put in were preloaded. Preload doesn't have to have
        double nuts. It can be done with interference fit which these screws
        had. There simply isn't room for a double nut type screw.
        I don't know what these screws were spec'd at but their actual
        accuracy was .001/foot. Since most of my work will fit in a 2 inch
        square, the accuracy was more than adequate. They easily held plus or
        minus .0005 in both accuracy and repeatability.

        >fitting ballscrews to the Taig would be hard work with marginal real
        benefit

        Hard work, yes. Marginal benefit no. The benefit on a small mill is
        exactly the same as on a big mill.
        Having said all that----Yes, those screws were cheap and wore quickly.
        I expected that might happen but I wasn't about to put thousand
        dollar screws in a seven hundred dollar machine. Especially since no
        one I knew of had ever done it and I wasn't entirely sure if it could
        be done. I actually got a spare saddle - just in case. But, they
        served their purpose as proof of concept.
        Since that pictorial was done, I've replaced those screws with some
        really nice ones. It will now hold .0005 over it's entire envelope
        and repeats to .0002 or better.

        >Nick, I'm curious what you thought of the oil hole and groove arrangement
        that was done on the mill.

        >Looks like overkill, although I'm assuming he's going to be trying for
        high feedrates...
        Taig already puts some scraping marks in for oil...but it would make
        oiling the slides easier.

        Now here I couldn't disagree more. The oiling on a Taig is its
        biggest weak point. There's no good way to get oil to the rather
        light scrapings on the x axis and the y axis has even less. Would you
        run your Bridgeport without hitting the oiler? Machines like oil.
        The ballscrew upgrade is something I would recommend to very few
        people. The oiling upgrade I would recommend to everyone. It's
        simple to do and has very positive payback. It only takes a few drops
        in the oil cup to keep it wet.

        Since that pictorial I also upgraded the saddle. I found the casting
        to be quite soft and wore quickly. As soon as the machine was fully
        bedded in, I disassembled it and sent the saddle off to be hard
        anodized and Teflon impregnated. I couldn't be more pleased. It's a
        bit pricey (around $280) but I highly recommend it. I haven't
        adjusted my x or y since and I keep it quite snug.

        I also upgraded the spindle to better bearings and ER 16 collets.
        Naturally, I did this just before Taig offered it. Murphy must have
        had a hand in that one.

        Regards,
        Walt
      • Greg McFadden
        Do you have a link to those pictures? I seem to be having trouble finding them/ -Greg ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 16 , Jan 9, 2008
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          Do you have a link to those pictures? I seem to be having trouble finding
          them/

          -Greg


          On 1/9/08, doanwannapickle <yahoo1@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi all,
          >
          > I had this old thread pointed out to me so I thought I'd dredge it up
          > and try to answer everyone at once.
          >
          > >Sure wish we could find some words to go along with that set of photos.
          >
          > All those pictures and you want words too? Just never satisfied.
          >
          > >The drive motorS is very interesting. Has anyone on the list tried the
          > dual motor setup?
          >
          > I really disliked the OEM drive setup. All that cantilevered weight
          > is really hard on the gibs. Since those photos I upgraded to the same
          > type motors but bigger. It was a little underpowered for my liking.
          > The downside is putting permanent magnet motors so close to the cutter
          > when doing steel. Otherwise, I've been very pleased with the setup.
          > The dual range is easy to change and gives me lots of power or lots of
          > speed.
          >
          > >Nice set of pictures!
          >
          > Thanks. I'm never happy with my pictures.
          >
          > >[It doesn't make much sense to me. It looks like that person went
          > through a
          > lot of work, just to install rolled ballscrews with no preload on the
          > nuts.
          > That won't eliminate backlash, and the basic accuracy of that that type of
          > screw (+/-.004"/ft) is not as good as the standard Taig screws. While they
          > will transfer motion more efficiently, that's not usually a problem on a
          > Taig, if the motors are standard-size (200 oz/in) or better. Am I missing
          > something here?]
          >
          > Ball screws are simply better, that's why all the manufacturers use
          > them. That isn't to say the OEM screws aren't good. The Taig screws
          > are excellent for the money you're paying. The entire machine is an
          > amazing value as is and even better as a base to build on.
          > The screws I put in were preloaded. Preload doesn't have to have
          > double nuts. It can be done with interference fit which these screws
          > had. There simply isn't room for a double nut type screw.
          > I don't know what these screws were spec'd at but their actual
          > accuracy was .001/foot. Since most of my work will fit in a 2 inch
          > square, the accuracy was more than adequate. They easily held plus or
          > minus .0005 in both accuracy and repeatability.
          >
          > >fitting ballscrews to the Taig would be hard work with marginal real
          > benefit
          >
          > Hard work, yes. Marginal benefit no. The benefit on a small mill is
          > exactly the same as on a big mill.
          > Having said all that----Yes, those screws were cheap and wore quickly.
          > I expected that might happen but I wasn't about to put thousand
          > dollar screws in a seven hundred dollar machine. Especially since no
          > one I knew of had ever done it and I wasn't entirely sure if it could
          > be done. I actually got a spare saddle - just in case. But, they
          > served their purpose as proof of concept.
          > Since that pictorial was done, I've replaced those screws with some
          > really nice ones. It will now hold .0005 over it's entire envelope
          > and repeats to .0002 or better.
          >
          > >Nick, I'm curious what you thought of the oil hole and groove arrangement
          > that was done on the mill.
          >
          > >Looks like overkill, although I'm assuming he's going to be trying for
          > high feedrates...
          > Taig already puts some scraping marks in for oil...but it would make
          > oiling the slides easier.
          >
          > Now here I couldn't disagree more. The oiling on a Taig is its
          > biggest weak point. There's no good way to get oil to the rather
          > light scrapings on the x axis and the y axis has even less. Would you
          > run your Bridgeport without hitting the oiler? Machines like oil.
          > The ballscrew upgrade is something I would recommend to very few
          > people. The oiling upgrade I would recommend to everyone. It's
          > simple to do and has very positive payback. It only takes a few drops
          > in the oil cup to keep it wet.
          >
          > Since that pictorial I also upgraded the saddle. I found the casting
          > to be quite soft and wore quickly. As soon as the machine was fully
          > bedded in, I disassembled it and sent the saddle off to be hard
          > anodized and Teflon impregnated. I couldn't be more pleased. It's a
          > bit pricey (around $280) but I highly recommend it. I haven't
          > adjusted my x or y since and I keep it quite snug.
          >
          > I also upgraded the spindle to better bearings and ER 16 collets.
          > Naturally, I did this just before Taig offered it. Murphy must have
          > had a hand in that one.
          >
          > Regards,
          > Walt
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • doanwannapickle
          ... finding ... Here ya go. http://www.chicobritish.org/CNC/ It was at the start of this thread. I broke it for a while but it should be ok now. Walt
          Message 4 of 16 , Jan 9, 2008
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            --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "Greg McFadden" <greg.mcfadden@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Do you have a link to those pictures? I seem to be having trouble
            finding
            > them/
            >
            > -Greg

            Here ya go. http://www.chicobritish.org/CNC/
            It was at the start of this thread. I broke it for a while but it
            should be ok now.
            Walt
          • Tony Jeffree
            ... Nice sequence. What were the ballscrews? Regards, Tony
            Message 5 of 16 , Jan 9, 2008
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              At 22:00 09/01/2008, you wrote:
              >--- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "Greg McFadden" <greg.mcfadden@...>
              >wrote:
              > >
              > > Do you have a link to those pictures? I seem to be having trouble
              >finding
              > > them/
              > >
              > > -Greg
              >
              >Here ya go. http://www.chicobritish.org/CNC/
              >It was at the start of this thread. I broke it for a while but it
              >should be ok now.
              >Walt

              Nice sequence. What were the ballscrews?

              Regards,
              Tony
            • doanwannapickle
              ... Just some generic stuff I picked up on eBay. They had been filled with oversize balls to eliminate the backlash. You can get similar ones from McMaster
              Message 6 of 16 , Jan 10, 2008
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                --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, Tony Jeffree <tony@...> wrote:
                >
                > At 22:00 09/01/2008, you wrote:

                > Nice sequence. What were the ballscrews?
                >
                > Regards,
                > Tony
                >


                Just some generic stuff I picked up on eBay. They had been filled
                with oversize balls to eliminate the backlash. You can get similar
                ones from McMaster Carr but you'll have to find the oversize balls
                yourself.

                The new screws are IBL which I also got on auction. No one had heard
                of IBL or could find specs on the screws so I got a real bargain. IBL
                was in Britain and developed the technology for this particular style
                of screw. They were promptly purchased by Thompson because they
                wanted that tech. Thompson was then purchased by Danaher because they
                buy everybody that makes anything nice then raise the price.

                Cheers,
                Walt
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