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Re: Money Making Projects with Mill

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  • rpetrick2002
    ... I logged onto your site. Looks like some pretty good stuff. Picking one part more or less at random: GWS EPS 300/350 gearbox single 22.7mm stator mount -
    Message 1 of 27 , Jul 5, 2005
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      --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "jdholbrook33" <jdholbrook33@y...>
      wrote:
      > I have probably paid for my mill, lathe and tooling a couple of

      I logged onto your site. Looks like some pretty good stuff. Picking
      one part more or less at random:

      GWS EPS 300/350 gearbox single 22.7mm stator mount - $8.00

      How long does it take to machine this part? How much in raw material
      (including wastage)? How long to dismount the finished part, clean
      the swarf, and remount another blank?

      I'm not trying to be nosy, just curious. Can you pay for labor,
      machine, and materials and still turn a profit at $8.00 per part?

      Robert
    • jdholbrook33
      On the Stator mounts. They are actually two piece. I buy the base from a machine shop, machine the tubes then press them together with Loctite 609. I can make
      Message 2 of 27 , Jul 5, 2005
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        On the Stator mounts. They are actually two piece.
        I buy the base from a machine shop, machine the tubes then press them
        together with Loctite 609. I can make 30 tubes in an hour. Material
        cost is $0.07 each with very little wastage. My bandsaw blade is 0.8mm
        thick and I can get 11 tubes per foot of stock at $0.62 a foot.
        The Turret tailstock is a lifesaver.

        If I pay myself $20 per hour then my cost for a complete mount is
        $2.82 so I am not making a killing on an $8.00 mount but it's fun.

        I can make the bases myself and have made a few to custom specs for
        customers. They are actually easier to make than the tubes so I would
        guess I could make them for $1.00 to $1.50 each due to higher cost of
        material and more wastage. Most time consuming part is tapping the two
        holes.
        I just picked up a Tapmatic off Ebay and will be trying that in my
        drill press.

        All in all I've had a great time, learned a lot and made some new friends.

        What more could you ask for?

        James

        --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "rpetrick2002" <rpetrick2002@y...>
        wrote:
        > --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "jdholbrook33" <jdholbrook33@y...>
        > wrote:
        > > I have probably paid for my mill, lathe and tooling a couple of
        >
        > I logged onto your site. Looks like some pretty good stuff. Picking
        > one part more or less at random:
        >
        > GWS EPS 300/350 gearbox single 22.7mm stator mount - $8.00
        >
        > How long does it take to machine this part? How much in raw material
        > (including wastage)? How long to dismount the finished part, clean
        > the swarf, and remount another blank?
        >
        > I'm not trying to be nosy, just curious. Can you pay for labor,
        > machine, and materials and still turn a profit at $8.00 per part?
        >
        > Robert
      • Lynn Caron
        Hi everyone! I m not a Taig mill owner yet so please bear with me. I m not sure of the money making potential of this but I ve been wondering about the
        Message 3 of 27 , Jul 5, 2005
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          Hi everyone!

          I'm not a Taig mill owner yet so please bear with me.
          I'm not sure of the money making potential of this but I've been wondering about the feasibility of using the Taig mill c/w a digitizing probe to do the following.

          If one were able to create a lifeform model of a person's face in say hard plaster or resin using traditional rubber molds would this full size model be able to then be digitized scaled and then perhaps used to machine a small scale model of that face on a scale figure ( say 1/87 or 1/48 scale?)

          I'm wondering mainly if the dimensions of a face might exceed the mills travel capability.

          Thanks

          Lynn Caron
          Brampton Ontario




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • benedict-list@hawaii.rr.com
          ... It likely would. My face is a little wider than the 6 I can get with a Y axis extension block. But that s not to say it s not possible. If you can scan
          Message 4 of 27 , Jul 6, 2005
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            On Tue, 5 Jul 2005, Lynn Caron wrote:

            > I'm not a Taig mill owner yet so please bear with me. I'm not sure of
            > the money making potential of this but I've been wondering about the
            > feasibility of using the Taig mill c/w a digitizing probe to do the
            > following.
            >
            > If one were able to create a lifeform model of a person's face in say
            > hard plaster or resin using traditional rubber molds would this full
            > size model be able to then be digitized scaled and then perhaps used to
            > machine a small scale model of that face on a scale figure ( say 1/87 or
            > 1/48 scale?)
            >
            > I'm wondering mainly if the dimensions of a face might exceed the mills
            > travel capability.

            It likely would. My face is a little wider than the 6" I can get with a Y
            axis extension block. But that's not to say it's not possible. If you
            can scan the mold in several sections and stitch them together, I don't
            see why such a plan wouldn't work.

            FWIW, there are some files in the TurboCNC list files area on how to make
            a digitizing probe. I'm hoping to pick up parts I need for the project
            some time over the next few weeks so I can give it a go.

            The application I've been wanting to use this for is penmaking. A few
            years ago I thought it'd be cool to get a 7mm pen tube, put putty on the
            outside, and basically scuplt the ideal pen barrel for how you hold your
            pen. This could then be scanned using the 4th axis and a probe. Once the
            point cloud is converted to a toolpath, the shape could be replicated in
            the material of your choice. Voila, a pen that really is made just for
            your hand.

            Not sure there's anything to be made from such a venture, but it'd be nice
            to have a pen or pencil that fit my hand well. And what the heck? Using
            a few thousand in tooling and software to make a $10 pen makes sense to
            me! (Right?)

            Tom
          • benedict-list@hawaii.rr.com
            Hm! That looks a lot like a polymer I ve seen on this side of the pond (ok, one of the ponds) sold under the trade name of Jett-Set. I m wondering if they re
            Message 5 of 27 , Jul 6, 2005
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              Hm! That looks a lot like a polymer I've seen on this side of the pond
              (ok, one of the ponds) sold under the trade name of Jett-Set. I'm
              wondering if they're one and the same.

              But that's an excellent idea. I was looking at using Sculpey, a
              plasticized PVC clay that can be baked out in an oven. But Polymorph
              looks like it'd be a lot easier to work with.

              HMMM! Thanks for the URL, Alex.

              Tom

              On Wed, 6 Jul 2005, Alex Holden wrote:

              > On 6 Jul 2005, at 09:53, benedict-list@... wrote:
              >> I thought it'd be cool to get a 7mm pen tube, put putty on the
              >> outside, and basically scuplt the ideal pen barrel for how you hold
              >> your
              >> pen.
              >
              > Polymorph is ideal for this kind of application:
              > http://www.mutr.co.uk/prodDetail.aspx?prodID=576
              >
              > --
              > ------------ Alex Holden - http://www.alexholden.net/ ------------
              > If it doesn't work, you're not hitting it with a big enough hammer
              >
              >
              >
              > To Post a message, send it to: taigtools@...
              >
              > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: taigtools-unsubscribe@...
              >
              >
              >
              > Let the chips fly!
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Don Rogers
              ... Lynn, depending on the face, the mill may have the travel to accomplish this, but it is pushing the limits in all three axis. While I don t own a probe
              Message 6 of 27 , Jul 6, 2005
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                At 06:43 PM 7/6/2005 +0000, you wrote:
                >I'm not a Taig mill owner yet so please bear with me.
                >I'm not sure of the money making potential of this but I've been wondering
                >about the feasibility of using the Taig mill c/w a digitizing probe to do
                >the following.
                >
                >If one were able to create a lifeform model of a person's face in say hard
                >plaster or resin using traditional rubber molds would this full size model
                >be able to then be digitized scaled and then perhaps used to machine a
                >small scale model of that face on a scale figure ( say 1/87 or 1/48 scale?)
                >
                >I'm wondering mainly if the dimensions of a face might exceed the mills
                >travel capability.
                >
                >Thanks
                >
                >Lynn Caron

                Lynn, depending on the face, the mill may have the travel to accomplish
                this, but it is pushing the limits in all three axis.

                While I don't own a probe yet, discussions on this and other groups leads
                me to believe that the time required would be excessive. If you figure a
                full 12" x 6" scan area at 0.01" resolution, you are talking about 720,000
                probe points. At 3 seconds a point, you are looking at 24 days non stop.

                There are software packages that will create a 2 1/5 D image from a
                photo. This wouldn't work for what you have described though.

                Take a look at this site, This is what you are up against.
                http://graphics.stanford.edu/papers/dmich-sig00/

                Don
              • Alex Holden
                ... Polymorph is ideal for this kind of application: http://www.mutr.co.uk/prodDetail.aspx?prodID=576 -- ... If it doesn t work, you re not hitting it with a
                Message 7 of 27 , Jul 6, 2005
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                  On 6 Jul 2005, at 09:53, benedict-list@... wrote:
                  > I thought it'd be cool to get a 7mm pen tube, put putty on the
                  > outside, and basically scuplt the ideal pen barrel for how you hold
                  > your
                  > pen.

                  Polymorph is ideal for this kind of application:
                  http://www.mutr.co.uk/prodDetail.aspx?prodID=576

                  --
                  ------------ Alex Holden - http://www.alexholden.net/ ------------
                  If it doesn't work, you're not hitting it with a big enough hammer
                • Felice Luftschein and Nicholas Carter
                  If you haven t checked it out, RepRap is working on a polymorph RP machine: http://reprap.org/ blog has more details: http://reprap.blogspot.com/ I think their
                  Message 8 of 27 , Jul 6, 2005
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                    If you haven't checked it out, RepRap is working on a polymorph RP machine:

                    http://reprap.org/
                    blog has more details:
                    http://reprap.blogspot.com/

                    I think their philosophical goals are laudible, but I doubt that they'll
                    ever get a replicator working to anywhere near the utility they assume. But
                    it is a cool project...


                    felice@... is Felice Luftschein and Nicholas Carter. Check out our
                    homepage www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: <benedict-list@...>
                    To: <taigtools@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 5:56 AM
                    Subject: Re: [taigtools] Re: Money Making Projects with Mill


                    > Hm! That looks a lot like a polymer I've seen on this side of the pond
                    > (ok, one of the ponds) sold under the trade name of Jett-Set. I'm
                    > wondering if they're one and the same.
                    >
                    > But that's an excellent idea. I was looking at using Sculpey, a
                    > plasticized PVC clay that can be baked out in an oven. But Polymorph
                    > looks like it'd be a lot easier to work with.
                    >
                    > HMMM! Thanks for the URL, Alex.
                    >
                    > Tom
                    >
                    > On Wed, 6 Jul 2005, Alex Holden wrote:
                    >
                    > > On 6 Jul 2005, at 09:53, benedict-list@... wrote:
                    > >> I thought it'd be cool to get a 7mm pen tube, put putty on the
                    > >> outside, and basically scuplt the ideal pen barrel for how you hold
                    > >> your
                    > >> pen.
                    > >
                    > > Polymorph is ideal for this kind of application:
                    > > http://www.mutr.co.uk/prodDetail.aspx?prodID=576
                    > >
                    > > --
                    > > ------------ Alex Holden - http://www.alexholden.net/ ------------
                    > > If it doesn't work, you're not hitting it with a big enough hammer
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > To Post a message, send it to: taigtools@...
                    > >
                    > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                    taigtools-unsubscribe@...
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Let the chips fly!
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > To Post a message, send it to: taigtools@...
                    >
                    > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: taigtools-unsubscribe@...
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Let the chips fly!
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Alex Holden
                    ... They have some interesting ideas. I like the idea that every house could have one of these things and use it to make items from descriptions downloaded
                    Message 9 of 27 , Jul 7, 2005
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                      On 7 Jul 2005, at 00:02, Felice Luftschein and Nicholas Carter wrote:
                      > If you haven't checked it out, RepRap is working on a polymorph RP
                      > machine

                      They have some interesting ideas. I like the idea that every house
                      could have one of these things and use it to make items from
                      descriptions downloaded from the net, then when the item wears out or
                      they get bored with it they can just shove it back into the machine
                      to be melted down and reused. I suspect the hard part might be
                      getting a decent surface finish with just an extrusion nozzle.
                      Another academic has been talking about doing the same thing with
                      extruded concrete on a much bigger scale to manufacture whole
                      buildings, but his robot uses a trowel effector to smooth the surface
                      after extruding it.

                      I'm tempted to try making a Polymorph extrusion head that screws onto
                      my Taig mill's spindle nose...

                      --
                      ------------ Alex Holden - http://www.alexholden.net/ ------------
                      If it doesn't work, you're not hitting it with a big enough hammer
                    • Lynn Livingston
                      ... pond ... Polymorph ... Tom, I ve used Sculpey to make a few pens, and have decided it s not the best medium to use if machining operations need to be done.
                      Message 10 of 27 , Jul 7, 2005
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                        --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, benedict-list@h... wrote:
                        > Hm! That looks a lot like a polymer I've seen on this side of the
                        pond
                        > (ok, one of the ponds) sold under the trade name of Jett-Set. I'm
                        > wondering if they're one and the same.
                        >
                        > But that's an excellent idea. I was looking at using Sculpey, a
                        > plasticized PVC clay that can be baked out in an oven. But
                        Polymorph
                        > looks like it'd be a lot easier to work with.
                        >
                        > HMMM! Thanks for the URL, Alex.
                        >
                        > Tom

                        Tom,

                        I've used Sculpey to make a few pens, and have decided it's not the
                        best medium to use if machining operations need to be done. I found
                        that Sculpey, even after bake, is still soft enough that it doesn't
                        machine real well or finish well. Other clays that bake at a higher
                        temp fare better.
                        I was attracted to this product realizing all the wonderful colors
                        and patterns I could make and, like you pointed out, the possibility
                        of molding shapes that would otherwise be more difficult to obtain,
                        and that it does well.
                        The most interesting pen I made utilized 12 different pearlized
                        colors; some stock and some I made by mixing different colors
                        together, to make faux Abolone shell.
                        This required lots of layering in the mix and when "wrapping" the
                        pen barrels I could never get it to the point to where the seam
                        didn't show, although it wasn't very noticable unless you were
                        looking for it.
                        I too later read about Polymorph and made a note to one day revisit
                        the concept and maybe try some of that. I haven't heard about Jett-
                        Set. It would be nice too if a like product was available in the
                        U.S.. But, if the stuff is good and folks want to use it, I would
                        think it will be available here soon.

                        Lynn
                      • Clive Foster
                        ... 2 1/2 D image creation from photos is possible with off the shelf software but it appears not to be a simple, automated process. Well not when I looked
                        Message 11 of 27 , Jul 7, 2005
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                          > :
                          >> I'm not a Taig mill owner yet so please bear with me.
                          >> I'm not sure of the money making potential of this but I've been
                          >> wondering
                          >> about the feasibility of using the Taig mill c/w a digitizing probe
                          >> to do
                          >> the following.
                          >>
                          >> If one were able to create a lifeform model of a person's face in say
                          >> hard
                          >> plaster or resin using traditional rubber molds would this full size
                          >> model
                          >> be able to then be digitized scaled and then perhaps used to machine a
                          >> small scale model of that face on a scale figure ( say 1/87 or 1/48
                          >> scale?)
                          >>
                          >> I'm wondering mainly if the dimensions of a face might exceed the
                          >> mills
                          >> travel capability.
                          >>
                          >> Thanks
                          >>
                          >> Lynn Caron
                          >
                          > Lynn, depending on the face, the mill may have the travel to accomplish
                          > this, but it is pushing the limits in all three axis.
                          >
                          > While I don't own a probe yet, discussions on this and other groups
                          > leads
                          > me to believe that the time required would be excessive. If you
                          > figure a
                          > full 12" x 6" scan area at 0.01" resolution, you are talking about
                          > 720,000
                          > probe points. At 3 seconds a point, you are looking at 24 days non
                          > stop.
                          >
                          > There are software packages that will create a 2 1/5 D image from a
                          > photo. This wouldn't work for what you have described though.
                          >
                          > Take a look at this site, This is what you are up against.
                          > http://graphics.stanford.edu/papers/dmich-sig00/
                          >
                          > Don

                          2 1/2 D image creation from photos is possible with off the shelf
                          software but it appears not to be a simple, automated process. Well
                          not when I looked into it seriously a coupla years back. (Post
                          redundancy I had some potential business plans based on the process
                          but, having bought software and Taig, something more immediately
                          lucrative turned up and I've yet to put the effort in to get things
                          going.)
                          The systems I looked at basically started with a grey scale image and
                          translated the grey tone into a depth of cut. Good results are
                          certainly possible but, realistically, the results were artistic rather
                          than true representational and even then manual intervention was needed
                          to greater or lesser extent depending on image specifics.

                          During my enquires I found suppliers working on producing 3 D models
                          from multiple images including demos of "work in progress" software.
                          Anticipated shipping was said to be "soon". As I recall it 7 images
                          were needed for full 360 degree model, 5 for 180 degree half model and
                          3 for bas-relief. Think I saw a press release from Delcam last year
                          announcing release of such software but I could have got this mixed up.

                          Clive
                        • benedict-list@hawaii.rr.com
                          I wasn t so much thinking of using the Sculpey to make the final product as I was thinking of using it to make a squishy mold that I could then scan in using a
                          Message 12 of 27 , Jul 7, 2005
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                            I wasn't so much thinking of using the Sculpey to make the final product
                            as I was thinking of using it to make a squishy mold that I could then
                            scan in using a touch probe. The final pen would then be cut out of
                            something else entirely.

                            Good to know about Sculpey as a material, though. I tried to use it to
                            make a temporary nut at one point. Horrid experience. I wound up doing
                            something else entirely.

                            Tom

                            On Thu, 7 Jul 2005, Lynn Livingston wrote:

                            > --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, benedict-list@h... wrote:
                            >> Hm! That looks a lot like a polymer I've seen on this side of the
                            > pond
                            >> (ok, one of the ponds) sold under the trade name of Jett-Set. I'm
                            >> wondering if they're one and the same.
                            >>
                            >> But that's an excellent idea. I was looking at using Sculpey, a
                            >> plasticized PVC clay that can be baked out in an oven. But
                            > Polymorph
                            >> looks like it'd be a lot easier to work with.
                            >>
                            >> HMMM! Thanks for the URL, Alex.
                            >>
                            >> Tom
                            >
                            > Tom,
                            >
                            > I've used Sculpey to make a few pens, and have decided it's not the
                            > best medium to use if machining operations need to be done. I found
                            > that Sculpey, even after bake, is still soft enough that it doesn't
                            > machine real well or finish well. Other clays that bake at a higher
                            > temp fare better.
                            > I was attracted to this product realizing all the wonderful colors
                            > and patterns I could make and, like you pointed out, the possibility
                            > of molding shapes that would otherwise be more difficult to obtain,
                            > and that it does well.
                            > The most interesting pen I made utilized 12 different pearlized
                            > colors; some stock and some I made by mixing different colors
                            > together, to make faux Abolone shell.
                            > This required lots of layering in the mix and when "wrapping" the
                            > pen barrels I could never get it to the point to where the seam
                            > didn't show, although it wasn't very noticable unless you were
                            > looking for it.
                            > I too later read about Polymorph and made a note to one day revisit
                            > the concept and maybe try some of that. I haven't heard about Jett-
                            > Set. It would be nice too if a like product was available in the
                            > U.S.. But, if the stuff is good and folks want to use it, I would
                            > think it will be available here soon.
                            >
                            > Lynn
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > To Post a message, send it to: taigtools@...
                            >
                            > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: taigtools-unsubscribe@...
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Let the chips fly!
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Andrew Werby
                            Message: 2 Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 13:19:45 -0700 From: Don Rogers Subject: Re:Money Making Projects with Mill ... Lynn, depending
                            Message 13 of 27 , Jul 7, 2005
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                              Message: 2
                              Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 13:19:45 -0700
                              From: Don Rogers <Don@...>
                              Subject: Re:Money Making Projects with Mill

                              At 06:43 PM 7/6/2005 +0000, you wrote:
                              >I'm not a Taig mill owner yet so please bear with me.
                              >I'm not sure of the money making potential of this but I've been wondering
                              >about the feasibility of using the Taig mill c/w a digitizing probe to do
                              >the following.
                              >
                              >If one were able to create a lifeform model of a person's face in say hard
                              >plaster or resin using traditional rubber molds would this full size model
                              >be able to then be digitized scaled and then perhaps used to machine a
                              >small scale model of that face on a scale figure ( say 1/87 or 1/48 scale?)
                              >
                              >I'm wondering mainly if the dimensions of a face might exceed the mills
                              >travel capability.
                              >
                              >Thanks
                              >
                              >Lynn Caron

                              Lynn, depending on the face, the mill may have the travel to accomplish
                              this, but it is pushing the limits in all three axis.

                              While I don't own a probe yet, discussions on this and other groups leads
                              me to believe that the time required would be excessive. If you figure a
                              full 12" x 6" scan area at 0.01" resolution, you are talking about 720,000
                              probe points. At 3 seconds a point, you are looking at 24 days non stop.

                              There are software packages that will create a 2 1/5 D image from a
                              photo. This wouldn't work for what you have described though.

                              Take a look at this site, This is what you are up against.
                              http://graphics.stanford.edu/papers/dmich-sig00/

                              Don

                              [I don't think scanning is quite as slow as you seem to think. I use a
                              Roland touchprobe scanner, and a scan of a comparable size and resolution
                              (the bed of my machine is smaller, but I typically go finer in resolution)
                              takes no more than a couple, maybe three days. But I don't think the Taig is
                              really the tool for this job - most faces are somewhat wider than will
                              comfortably fit a Taig. If you really wanted to do this, I'd recommend a
                              Microscribe (hand-operated) digitizing arm, which is actually pretty fast in
                              operation, if you don't need a whole lot of detail. The Taig would work fine
                              for producing the scaled-down heads, though.]

                              Andrew Werby
                              www.computersculpture.com
                            • Fred Smith
                              ... groups ... about ... non ... DeskCNC scans at least 20,000 points per hour. That would be about 36 hours. It also smooths and filters the data, reverse
                              Message 14 of 27 , Jul 11, 2005
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                                --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, Clive Foster <clive_foster@t...>
                                wrote:

                                > > While I don't own a probe yet, discussions on this and other
                                groups
                                > > leads
                                > > me to believe that the time required would be excessive. If you
                                > > figure a
                                > > full 12" x 6" scan area at 0.01" resolution, you are talking
                                about
                                > > 720,000
                                > > probe points. At 3 seconds a point, you are looking at 24 days
                                non
                                > > stop.

                                DeskCNC scans at least 20,000 points per hour. That would be about
                                36
                                hours. It also smooths and filters the data, reverse compensates for
                                the probe tip radius and saves the scan as an .stl file( CAD model).
                                It can also scale, translate, rotate, etc, the model and generate
                                roughing and finishing toolpaths from the scanned model for
                                remachining.

                                Here is a sample dolls head that was rotary scanned and cut at the
                                CNC-
                                workshop:

                                http://www.imsrv.com/cncworkshop/

                                Some detail about surface scanning and then machining with DeskCNC:

                                http://www.imsrv.com/discus/messages/1004/101731.html?1115750659

                                .01 x .01 resolution is probably too fine for a fullsized head. I
                                would think something more like .010 in X and .035 in Y would provide
                                more than adequate detail from a 12 x 6 scanning target. This would
                                reduce the scanning time to about 10 hrs.

                                You want to consider the size of the cutter you will use to machine
                                the final part. There is not much value in scanning to the nth
                                degree
                                of accuracy if the machined part will only need to hold .015-.030
                                inch
                                resolution. And if you scale a large model smaller, the details will
                                also scale. That means that you don't need nearly as fine a detail
                                on
                                the large original as you will get in the final model.

                                http://www.imsrv.com/deskcnc/probe.htm


                                Fred Smith - IMService
                                http://www.cadcamcadcam.com/hobby
                              • Larry Richter
                                I ve noticed that nobody has to tell the kids what the plastic toy is supposed to represent when they get their Movie Extravaganza Happy Meal now, whereas once
                                Message 15 of 27 , Jul 11, 2005
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                                  I've noticed that nobody has to tell the kids what the plastic toy is
                                  supposed to represent when they get their Movie Extravaganza Happy Meal now,
                                  whereas once upon a time the toy maker Marx had to label the Fess Parker
                                  figure as "Davey Crocket" in their Alamo play set, a good idea then even
                                  with the best toy mold house in the U.S. doing the mold blocks. I'm not
                                  clear on how the process shown here relates to the beautiful molded
                                  character heads that appear from China with the movie releases, or what
                                  advantage for short run production this has over the existing mechanical
                                  carvers which make wood output, since both require a physical madel to
                                  strart with. Willing to hear about it, though.

                                  Carving an irregular ball shaped finished piece with a ball shaped cutter is
                                  a challenge to the surface smoothness on the finished product. Can these
                                  things figure out stuff like profile points (the bridge of the nose or the
                                  projection above the eye, for example) and make tool paths that follow these
                                  high points and make a visually smoother rendition there? Can an operator
                                  direct the choice of tool path in a given area as it is processed, or do you
                                  take what the program produces with no option other than to try again if you
                                  don't like what you get?

                                  It looks from the quality of mass manufactured products out now that the art
                                  can do even more, but how are things at the hobby and small manufacturer
                                  level?






                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "Fred Smith" <imserv@...>
                                  To: <taigtools@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 12:35 PM
                                  Subject: [taigtools] Re: Money Making Projects with Mill


                                  > --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, Clive Foster <clive_foster@t...>
                                  > wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > > While I don't own a probe yet, discussions on this and other
                                  > groups
                                  > > > leads
                                  > > > me to believe that the time required would be excessive. If you
                                  > > > figure a
                                  > > > full 12" x 6" scan area at 0.01" resolution, you are talking
                                  > about
                                  > > > 720,000
                                  > > > probe points. At 3 seconds a point, you are looking at 24 days
                                  > non
                                  > > > stop.
                                  >
                                  > DeskCNC scans at least 20,000 points per hour. That would be about
                                  > 36
                                  > hours. It also smooths and filters the data, reverse compensates for
                                  > the probe tip radius and saves the scan as an .stl file( CAD model).
                                  > It can also scale, translate, rotate, etc, the model and generate
                                  > roughing and finishing toolpaths from the scanned model for
                                  > remachining.
                                  >
                                  > Here is a sample dolls head that was rotary scanned and cut at the
                                  > CNC-
                                  > workshop:
                                  >
                                  > http://www.imsrv.com/cncworkshop/
                                  >
                                  > Some detail about surface scanning and then machining with DeskCNC:
                                  >
                                  > http://www.imsrv.com/discus/messages/1004/101731.html?1115750659
                                  >
                                  > .01 x .01 resolution is probably too fine for a fullsized head. I
                                  > would think something more like .010 in X and .035 in Y would provide
                                  > more than adequate detail from a 12 x 6 scanning target. This would
                                  > reduce the scanning time to about 10 hrs.
                                  >
                                  > You want to consider the size of the cutter you will use to machine
                                  > the final part. There is not much value in scanning to the nth
                                  > degree
                                  > of accuracy if the machined part will only need to hold .015-.030
                                  > inch
                                  > resolution. And if you scale a large model smaller, the details will
                                  > also scale. That means that you don't need nearly as fine a detail
                                  > on
                                  > the large original as you will get in the final model.
                                  >
                                  > http://www.imsrv.com/deskcnc/probe.htm
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Fred Smith - IMService
                                  > http://www.cadcamcadcam.com/hobby
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > To Post a message, send it to: taigtools@...
                                  >
                                  > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: taigtools-unsubscribe@...
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Let the chips fly!
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                • agraytx2003
                                  I saw on TV how the commercial companies make Action Figures . It was on the History Channel and the program was the one where the show stuff developed for
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Jul 11, 2005
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                                    I saw on TV how the commercial companies make "Action Figures". It
                                    was on the History Channel and the program was the one where the
                                    show stuff developed for the military that ends up in civilian use.

                                    They made a "action Figure' of the host of the show. He stood in a
                                    big tube type thing and 3 or 4 lasers camers went round and round
                                    makings picture of his body a slice at a time. Then the camers
                                    moved up and made another slice. They made hundres or thousands of
                                    slices. The lasers moved round and round and upward untill they had
                                    did his entire body. It was like of like medical CT machine. (CAT
                                    Scan).

                                    Then with all of the slices they "printed" out the figure with a 3D
                                    printer. The end results was a wax mold that was almost idential to
                                    the orginail. Even the hairs on his head were in the same place.

                                    The 3D printer had an arm that went back and forth like a printer
                                    printing a line. Only this priner printed a slice form the tube
                                    laser camera by spraying a very thin layer of wax for each slice.
                                    Then the next pass another layer of was for the next slice. It
                                    went very fast. In a few minutes they had a wax mold that was
                                    almost a perfect match to the real guy. Then they used the mold and
                                    added color and produced the Action Figure. The was was all one
                                    color. They did not show how they added color.

                                    When they were finished they showed a picture of the real guys face
                                    and the face of the wax mold. It was almost impossible to tell
                                    which was which.

                                    I wonder how they kept the lasars from blinding him. The show did
                                    not say, but the lasers did not hurt his eyes.

                                    The process was produces a very detail mold and seem fast. However,
                                    probably cost more than most home hobbyist would want to pay.

                                    Albert

                                    --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Richter" <cattaraugus@e...>
                                    wrote:
                                    > I've noticed that nobody has to tell the kids what the plastic toy
                                    is
                                    > supposed to represent when they get their Movie Extravaganza Happy
                                    Meal now,
                                    > whereas once upon a time the toy maker Marx had to label the Fess
                                    Parker
                                    > figure as "Davey Crocket" in their Alamo play set, a good idea
                                    then even
                                    > with the best toy mold house in the U.S. doing the mold blocks.
                                    I'm not
                                    > clear on how the process shown here relates to the beautiful molded
                                    > character heads that appear from China with the movie releases, or
                                    what
                                    > advantage for short run production this has over the existing
                                    mechanical
                                    > carvers which make wood output, since both require a physical
                                    madel to
                                    > strart with. Willing to hear about it, though.
                                    >
                                    > Carving an irregular ball shaped finished piece with a ball shaped
                                    cutter is
                                    > a challenge to the surface smoothness on the finished product. Can
                                    these
                                    > things figure out stuff like profile points (the bridge of the
                                    nose or the
                                    > projection above the eye, for example) and make tool paths that
                                    follow these
                                    > high points and make a visually smoother rendition there? Can an
                                    operator
                                    > direct the choice of tool path in a given area as it is processed,
                                    or do you
                                    > take what the program produces with no option other than to try
                                    again if you
                                    > don't like what you get?
                                    >
                                    > It looks from the quality of mass manufactured products out now
                                    that the art
                                    > can do even more, but how are things at the hobby and small
                                    manufacturer
                                    > level?
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > From: "Fred Smith" <imserv@i...>
                                    > To: <taigtools@yahoogroups.com>
                                    > Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 12:35 PM
                                    > Subject: [taigtools] Re: Money Making Projects with Mill
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > > --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, Clive Foster
                                    <clive_foster@t...>
                                    > > wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > > > While I don't own a probe yet, discussions on this and other
                                    > > groups
                                    > > > > leads
                                    > > > > me to believe that the time required would be excessive. If
                                    you
                                    > > > > figure a
                                    > > > > full 12" x 6" scan area at 0.01" resolution, you are talking
                                    > > about
                                    > > > > 720,000
                                    > > > > probe points. At 3 seconds a point, you are looking at 24
                                    days
                                    > > non
                                    > > > > stop.
                                    > >
                                    > > DeskCNC scans at least 20,000 points per hour. That would be
                                    about
                                    > > 36
                                    > > hours. It also smooths and filters the data, reverse
                                    compensates for
                                    > > the probe tip radius and saves the scan as an .stl file( CAD
                                    model).
                                    > > It can also scale, translate, rotate, etc, the model and generate
                                    > > roughing and finishing toolpaths from the scanned model for
                                    > > remachining.
                                    > >
                                    > > Here is a sample dolls head that was rotary scanned and cut at
                                    the
                                    > > CNC-
                                    > > workshop:
                                    > >
                                    > > http://www.imsrv.com/cncworkshop/
                                    > >
                                    > > Some detail about surface scanning and then machining with
                                    DeskCNC:
                                    > >
                                    > > http://www.imsrv.com/discus/messages/1004/101731.html?1115750659
                                    > >
                                    > > .01 x .01 resolution is probably too fine for a fullsized head.
                                    I
                                    > > would think something more like .010 in X and .035 in Y would
                                    provide
                                    > > more than adequate detail from a 12 x 6 scanning target. This
                                    would
                                    > > reduce the scanning time to about 10 hrs.
                                    > >
                                    > > You want to consider the size of the cutter you will use to
                                    machine
                                    > > the final part. There is not much value in scanning to the nth
                                    > > degree
                                    > > of accuracy if the machined part will only need to hold .015-.030
                                    > > inch
                                    > > resolution. And if you scale a large model smaller, the details
                                    will
                                    > > also scale. That means that you don't need nearly as fine a
                                    detail
                                    > > on
                                    > > the large original as you will get in the final model.
                                    > >
                                    > > http://www.imsrv.com/deskcnc/probe.htm
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Fred Smith - IMService
                                    > > http://www.cadcamcadcam.com/hobby
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > To Post a message, send it to: taigtools@e...
                                    > >
                                    > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: taigtools-
                                    unsubscribe@e...
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Let the chips fly!
                                    > >
                                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                  • Larry Richter
                                    It seems like a subcontractor relationship with someone who owns and runs products such as those on this page would be closer to what s wanted than a touch
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Jul 11, 2005
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                                      It seems like a subcontractor relationship with someone who owns and runs
                                      products such as those on this page would be closer to what's wanted than a
                                      touch probe is. Especially by someone who needs to produce a 3-D sculptural
                                      product, but not a dozen different products a day. Surely a town like LA has
                                      such vendors, and probably any town with a serious manufacturing base still.


                                      http://www.computersculpture.com/Pages/Index_Scanning.html
                                    • Alex Holden
                                      ... There are some guys who are trying to develop home-brew 3D laser scanners: http://splinescan.co.uk/ -- ... If it doesn t work, you re not hitting it with a
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Jul 12, 2005
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        On 11 Jul 2005, at 23:36, agraytx2003 wrote:
                                        > big tube type thing and 3 or 4 lasers camers went round and round
                                        > makings picture of his body a slice at a time. Then the camers
                                        > moved up and made another slice. They made hundres or thousands of
                                        > slices. The lasers moved round and round and upward untill they had
                                        > did his entire body. It was like of like medical CT machine. (CAT
                                        > Scan).

                                        There are some guys who are trying to develop home-brew 3D laser
                                        scanners:
                                        http://splinescan.co.uk/

                                        --
                                        ------------ Alex Holden - http://www.alexholden.net/ ------------
                                        If it doesn't work, you're not hitting it with a big enough hammer
                                      • Larry Richter
                                        Very interested to hear this. I ll watch for the show, would like to know what the military application was. One of the recent adventure movies is supposed to
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Jul 12, 2005
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Very interested to hear this. I'll watch for the show, would like to know
                                          what the military application was.

                                          One of the recent adventure movies is supposed to have gone straight from
                                          designs to wax to bronze with some of their props, wondering if this has
                                          something to do with it.

                                          You must think loud. This morning I woke up and said "Cat scans and MRI's
                                          would be the perfect data collectors for 3-D scanning and they're in every
                                          town!" Stra-a-ange.

                                          Of course they aren't in every town--but eight years ago I noticed that the
                                          early models were being superceded, and placed out for hire separate from
                                          the first line imaging programs in some hospitals, doing walk-in work for
                                          rural doctors and clinics with a reduced paperwork justification. The next
                                          step for first generation machines would be third world clinics and odd
                                          industrial uses, maybe. A lot of the cost of these services is in
                                          acquisition of the equipment at its original price and in the medical
                                          analysis of results and the risk associated with that. Cost of use to
                                          determine outside contours would probably be a lot less if the machine left
                                          the hospital setting.

                                          The computers would be seriously out of date and I imagine the data formats
                                          would be a nightmare, but maybe somebody will send their kid to college with
                                          one.



                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: "agraytx2003" <agray12@...>
                                          To: <taigtools@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 3:36 PM
                                          Subject: [taigtools] Re: Money Making Projects with Mill


                                          > I saw on TV how the commercial companies make "Action Figures". It
                                          > was on the History Channel and the program was the one where the
                                          > show stuff developed for the military that ends up in civilian use.
                                          >
                                          > They made a "action Figure' of the host of the show. He stood in a
                                          > big tube type thing and 3 or 4 lasers camers went round and round
                                          > makings picture of his body a slice at a time. Then the camers
                                          > moved up and made another slice. They made hundres or thousands of
                                          > slices. The lasers moved round and round and upward untill they had
                                          > did his entire body. It was like of like medical CT machine. (CAT
                                          > Scan).
                                          >
                                          > Then with all of the slices they "printed" out the figure with a 3D
                                          > printer. The end results was a wax mold that was almost idential to
                                          > the orginail. Even the hairs on his head were in the same place.
                                          >
                                          > The 3D printer had an arm that went back and forth like a printer
                                          > printing a line. Only this priner printed a slice form the tube
                                          > laser camera by spraying a very thin layer of wax for each slice.
                                          > Then the next pass another layer of was for the next slice. It
                                          > went very fast. In a few minutes they had a wax mold that was
                                          > almost a perfect match to the real guy. Then they used the mold and
                                          > added color and produced the Action Figure. The was was all one
                                          > color. They did not show how they added color.
                                          >
                                          > When they were finished they showed a picture of the real guys face
                                          > and the face of the wax mold. It was almost impossible to tell
                                          > which was which.
                                          >
                                          > I wonder how they kept the lasars from blinding him. The show did
                                          > not say, but the lasers did not hurt his eyes.
                                          >
                                          > The process was produces a very detail mold and seem fast. However,
                                          > probably cost more than most home hobbyist would want to pay.
                                          >
                                          > Albert
                                          >
                                          > --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Richter" <cattaraugus@e...>
                                          > wrote:
                                          > > I've noticed that nobody has to tell the kids what the plastic toy
                                          > is
                                          > > supposed to represent when they get their Movie Extravaganza Happy
                                          > Meal now,
                                          > > whereas once upon a time the toy maker Marx had to label the Fess
                                          > Parker
                                          > > figure as "Davey Crocket" in their Alamo play set, a good idea
                                          > then even
                                          > > with the best toy mold house in the U.S. doing the mold blocks.
                                          > I'm not
                                          > > clear on how the process shown here relates to the beautiful molded
                                          > > character heads that appear from China with the movie releases, or
                                          > what
                                          > > advantage for short run production this has over the existing
                                          > mechanical
                                          > > carvers which make wood output, since both require a physical
                                          > madel to
                                          > > strart with. Willing to hear about it, though.
                                          > >
                                          > > Carving an irregular ball shaped finished piece with a ball shaped
                                          > cutter is
                                          > > a challenge to the surface smoothness on the finished product. Can
                                          > these
                                          > > things figure out stuff like profile points (the bridge of the
                                          > nose or the
                                          > > projection above the eye, for example) and make tool paths that
                                          > follow these
                                          > > high points and make a visually smoother rendition there? Can an
                                          > operator
                                          > > direct the choice of tool path in a given area as it is processed,
                                          > or do you
                                          > > take what the program produces with no option other than to try
                                          > again if you
                                          > > don't like what you get?
                                          > >
                                          > > It looks from the quality of mass manufactured products out now
                                          > that the art
                                          > > can do even more, but how are things at the hobby and small
                                          > manufacturer
                                          > > level?
                                        • Fred Smith
                                          ... cutter is ... these ... nose or the ... follow these ... The processes are not automatic, but they are available. Several programs will produce zig-zag
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Jul 12, 2005
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Richter" <cattaraugus@e...>
                                            wrote:

                                            > Carving an irregular ball shaped finished piece with a ball shaped
                                            cutter is
                                            > a challenge to the surface smoothness on the finished product. Can
                                            these
                                            > things figure out stuff like profile points (the bridge of the
                                            nose or the
                                            > projection above the eye, for example) and make tool paths that
                                            follow these
                                            > high points and make a visually smoother rendition there?

                                            The processes are not automatic, but they are available. Several
                                            programs will produce zig-zag toolpaths at a specified resolution
                                            (stepover distance is proportional to cusp height). This with a
                                            little sandpaper will produce excellent results in wood, plastic and
                                            foam materials, especially of the spindle is tilted to permit
                                            cutting high up on the radius of the ball.

                                            For more control over toolpaths, StlWork has waterline toolpaths
                                            that are applied based on surface tangency angles. This makes
                                            dramatic inprovements in vertical and highly angled areas.

                                            VectorCam can produce organic Nurbs surfaces from random point
                                            acculumations and will make finish tool paths using any( or
                                            combinations ) of 6 different approaches to toolpath creation,
                                            including options for alternating direction changes or constant
                                            climb cutting.

                                            Fred Smith - IMService
                                            http://www.cadcamcadcam.com/hobby
                                          • agraytx2003
                                            The show was on the History Channel and was called From Tactial to Practial . It has been a while, but as I remmeber the miliary would take satellite of some
                                            Message 21 of 27 , Jul 12, 2005
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                                              The show was on the History Channel and was called "From Tactial to
                                              Practial". It has been a while, but as I remmeber the miliary would
                                              take satellite of some thing of interset, like say a cave in the
                                              mountains. They would then make a 3D computer model and use the 'wax
                                              printer' to made a model. Then the target analyst would use the
                                              model to plan the best way to get a smart bomb right on target.

                                              I think the company that made the heads for the action figures was
                                              in LA. After the mold was made the probably ship it to China or some
                                              place to have them mass produced.

                                              Albert


                                              --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Richter" <cattaraugus@e...>
                                              wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Very interested to hear this. I'll watch for the show, would like
                                              to know
                                              > what the military application was.
                                              >
                                              > One of the recent adventure movies is supposed to have gone
                                              straight from
                                              > designs to wax to bronze with some of their props, wondering if
                                              this has
                                              > something to do with it.
                                              >
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