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Re: [taigtools] Re: Column Adjustment

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  • benedict@hawaii.rr.com
    ... I don t think you d need to scrape the ways since the ways themselves are bolted to the column. Before attacking the ways, see what can be done with the
    Message 1 of 25 , Jun 30, 2004
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      On Thu, 1 Jul 2004, campgems wrote:

      > Unfortunatly, the problem is column to base. My check out sequence is
      > 1. dial mounted on Z slide. Scan table with Y move. Less than
      > 0.0005" error.
      >
      > 2. Same dial setup, Now scan full travel of X. Again less than
      > 0.0005" error.
      >
      > 3. Dial mounted to Z Slide. Mount machinist's 6" square blade up,
      > base paralled to X. Scan length of square. Out by 0.005". Adjust
      > column to base piviot. Now 0.000" in 6"
      >
      > 4. Dial mounted to Z slide. Machinist's square now mounted on table
      > perpenduclar to X movement. Scan square. Out by 0.001 per inch of
      > movement. This is where I will need to scrape in the Z way to column to
      > correct. I had first thought of using shims, but the length and
      > mounting of the Z ways don't allow this to be a good option. Another
      > though was to drill and tap holes for set screws to allow adjustment of
      > the way, but I rejected this as it would be nearly impossible to adjust
      > the ways without introducing a twist.

      I don't think you'd need to scrape the ways since the ways themselves are
      bolted to the column. Before attacking the ways, see what can be done
      with the connection between column and ways.

      Also, if you've got a surface plate and surface gauge, check the ways to
      see if the front and back are parallel.

      > I havent got to tramming the spindle yet. That will come after the
      > machine will move correctly.

      It's good you're treating these as two separate tramming operations.
      Definitely the way to go.

      Tom
    • benedict@hawaii.rr.com
      ... You can check your square by repeating the measurements with the square flipped around to the other side of the column. Say your square is raked aft by
      Message 2 of 25 , Jun 30, 2004
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        On Thu, 1 Jul 2004, Tom Wightman wrote:

        > I know this sounds completely obvious, but are you absolutely sure of
        > your square? I know .001 per inch sems like a lot for a square to be
        > out, and it probably is, but I spent a good deal of time shimming my
        > machine to get the Y axis and Z axis movement perpendicular, only to
        > find that the majority of the problem was with the square I was using.
        > It wasn't out as much as you are describing, but I think the bottom
        > line is that I went through a period of cursing Taig for shoddy stuff,
        > only to find, after a great deal of work, that it was my efforts that
        > were a bit shoddy, and Taig had done a perfectly adequate job.

        You can check your square by repeating the measurements with the square
        flipped around to the other side of the column. Say your square is raked
        aft by 0.005" over its entire length. You put it on the right side of the
        column and tram the column true. Now flip it to the other side and
        repeat the measurement. You should get 0.010" of runout over the length
        of the square. At this point you can either replace the square or note
        that there's that much run-out over its length and tram accordingly.

        Tom
      • campgems
        ... between the ... base ... Unfortunatly, the problem is column to base. My check out sequence is 1. dial mounted on Z slide. Scan table with Y move. Less
        Message 3 of 25 , Jul 1, 2004
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          > For the y-axis tramming the problem is generally the interface
          between the
          > headstock/dovetail mounting plate/z axis slide, not the column to
          base
          > (which is ground true at the factory to great precision.

          Unfortunatly, the problem is column to base. My check out sequence is
          1. dial mounted on Z slide. Scan table with Y move. Less than
          0.0005" error.

          2. Same dial setup, Now scan full travel of X. Again less than
          0.0005" error.

          3. Dial mounted to Z Slide. Mount machinist's 6" square blade up,
          base paralled to X. Scan length of square. Out by 0.005". Adjust
          column to base piviot. Now 0.000" in 6"

          4. Dial mounted to Z slide. Machinist's square now mounted on table
          perpenduclar to X movement. Scan square. Out by 0.001 per inch of
          movement. This is where I will need to scrape in the Z way to column
          to correct. I had first thought of using shims, but the length and
          mounting of the Z ways don't allow this to be a good option. Another
          though was to drill and tap holes for set screws to allow adjustment
          of the way, but I rejected this as it would be nearly impossible to
          adjust the ways without introducing a twist.

          I havent got to tramming the spindle yet. That will come after the
          machine will move correctly.

          Don
        • Tom Wightman
          campgems wrote: ... Don I know this sounds completely obvious, but are you absolutely sure of your square? I know .001 per inch sems like a lot for a
          Message 4 of 25 , Jul 1, 2004
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            campgems wrote:

            <snip>
            >
            > 4. Dial mounted to Z slide. Machinist's square now mounted on table
            > perpenduclar to X movement. Scan square. Out by 0.001 per inch of
            > movement. This is where I will need to scrape in the Z way to column
            > to correct. I had first thought of using shims, but the length and
            > mounting of the Z ways don't allow this to be a good option. Another
            > though was to drill and tap holes for set screws to allow adjustment
            > of the way, but I rejected this as it would be nearly impossible to
            > adjust the ways without introducing a twist.
            >

            Don

            I know this sounds completely obvious, but are you absolutely sure of
            your square? I know .001 per inch sems like a lot for a square to be
            out, and it probably is, but I spent a good deal of time shimming my
            machine to get the Y axis and Z axis movement perpendicular, only to
            find that the majority of the problem was with the square I was using.
            It wasn't out as much as you are describing, but I think the bottom
            line is that I went through a period of cursing Taig for shoddy stuff,
            only to find, after a great deal of work, that it was my efforts that
            were a bit shoddy, and Taig had done a perfectly adequate job.

            Good luck

            Tom W.
          • campgems
            ... themselves are ... done ... That was my intent. However after looking at the machine again, I think I m going to attack the joint between the Y extrusion
            Message 5 of 25 , Jul 1, 2004
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              > I don't think you'd need to scrape the ways since the ways
              themselves are
              > bolted to the column. Before attacking the ways, see what can be
              done
              > with the connection between column and ways.

              That was my intent. However after looking at the machine again, I
              think I'm going to attack the joint between the Y extrusion and the Y
              frame. Correcting the problem here will be a lot eaiser. Aluminum
              scrapes so much eaiser than cold rolled steel. Also, it easer to fit
              something to a flat surface vs a vertical one.

              > It's good you're treating these as two separate tramming
              operations.
              > Definitely the way to go.

              I used to make my living doing this kind of work. It's been a long
              while since I've had my scraper and parallel bars out though. Maybe
              I should take some photos as I go and document this for other to use.

              Don
            • Tom Wightman
              campgems wrote: ... Don It s entirely up to you, of course, but I am having trouble understanding why you want to scrape anything. If the Y-axis travel
              Message 6 of 25 , Jul 1, 2004
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                campgems wrote:
                <snip>
                >
                > That was my intent. However after looking at the machine again, I
                > think I'm going to attack the joint between the Y extrusion and the Y
                > frame. Correcting the problem here will be a lot eaiser. Aluminum
                > scrapes so much eaiser than cold rolled steel. Also, it easer to fit
                > something to a flat surface vs a vertical one.
                >

                Don

                It's entirely up to you, of course, but I am having trouble
                understanding why you want to scrape anything. If the Y-axis travel
                is off square to the Z-axis, the entire carriage, ways and all, can be
                shimmed where it sits on the square section tube base, and the process
                has the advantage that it's easily reversible. On the other hand, if
                the alignment is really as bad as you said - I remember one thou per
                inch of travel - then I think it really should be going back to the
                supplier/manufacturer, unless of course it was obtained used?

                Regards

                Tom W.
              • campgems
                ... travel ... be ... process ... if ... per ... I did get the mill used. I wouldn t jump to the conclusion that the mill wasn t correct from the factory. I
                Message 7 of 25 , Jul 1, 2004
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                  >
                  > It's entirely up to you, of course, but I am having trouble
                  > understanding why you want to scrape anything. If the Y-axis
                  travel
                  > is off square to the Z-axis, the entire carriage, ways and all, can
                  be
                  > shimmed where it sits on the square section tube base, and the
                  process
                  > has the advantage that it's easily reversible. On the other hand,
                  if
                  > the alignment is really as bad as you said - I remember one thou
                  per
                  > inch of travel - then I think it really should be going back to the
                  > supplier/manufacturer, unless of course it was obtained used?
                  >
                  I did get the mill used. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that the
                  mill wasn't correct from the factory. I don't know what the previous
                  owner did to or with it other than having a leak in his salt water
                  aquirum on the floor above the mill and letting some salt water set
                  on it and cause some minor rust.

                  Shiming is not a good approach for something needing to have an
                  angular offset. The problem is that you need varing thickness of
                  shims at each attachment point. With the Z ways, this is 8 staggered
                  screws that would require 8 difference thicknesses of shims. It is
                  just too easy to introduce a warp in the ways doing this. If the
                  ways were made of a more rigid material than the ground plates now
                  used, then you might place a single shim under one end and call it
                  good. This isn't an option though.

                  This issue can be corrected one of four ways, with only two being a
                  real option without having a full machine shop at hand. It's really
                  hard machining a part for a machine that is torn down when that
                  machine is the only one that could make the part. Anyway, the four
                  ways to fix the problem is 1. alter the relationship between the Z
                  ways and the column. 2. alter the surface of the pivot between the
                  column and the base. 3. alter the relationship between the Y way
                  extrusion and the base, and 4. alter the Y way mounts.

                  #4 would be the most dificult, followed by #2. #1 was my first
                  thought but due to the nature of the mounting and the material
                  involved, it's less attractive now that I think of it. #3 seems to
                  be the best solution without another big mill to work with.

                  Having just gone through the list, a thought just popped in my head.
                  I am assuming that the mill ships with the column removed from the
                  base. My problem may be as simple as a piece of shaving, some paint,
                  or dirt in that joint. It wouldn't take much there to cause the
                  problem I'm seeing. I haven't taken it apart, and who knows, when
                  the aquarium let go maybe one of Nemo's friends may have found a new
                  home. I'm going to seperate and clean that joint tomorrow and see if
                  that doesn't solve my problem. It would be nice not to have to get
                  out the old scraper. I've got my fingers crossed.

                  Don

                  PS plan B just popped up also. If plan A, cleaning the column to
                  base joint doesn't work, I machine a wedge to fit between the Y
                  Extrusion and the base. If I loose 1/4" of Z height, it is no big
                  deal. And I can do that before taking the mill apart. All I'll have
                  to do is to shim the spindle so it is tarcking right and make a
                  single cut on the wedge. Scrapping is such tedious work, I knew
                  there had to be a better way.

                  Don
                • Tom Wightman
                  ... O.K. I understand - the factory approach is a non-starter in this case! And yeah, no control over and no knowledge of what the last guy did. ... Yeah Don,
                  Message 8 of 25 , Jul 2, 2004
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                    campgems wrote:

                    >>
                    >
                    > I did get the mill used. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that the
                    > mill wasn't correct from the factory. I don't know what the previous
                    > owner did to or with it other than having a leak in his salt water
                    > aquirum on the floor above the mill and letting some salt water set
                    > on it and cause some minor rust.
                    >

                    O.K. I understand - the factory approach is a non-starter in this
                    case! And yeah, no control over and no knowledge of what the last guy
                    did.

                    > Shiming is not a good approach for something needing to have an
                    > angular offset. The problem is that you need varing thickness of
                    > shims at each attachment point. With the Z ways, this is 8 staggered
                    > screws that would require 8 difference thicknesses of shims. It is
                    > just too easy to introduce a warp in the ways doing this. If the
                    > ways were made of a more rigid material than the ground plates now
                    > used, then you might place a single shim under one end and call it
                    > good. This isn't an option though.
                    >

                    Yeah Don, I understand the problems with shimming. In my case, when I
                    set out to shim the carriage assembly to the base (before realising it
                    wasn't necessary), I used four shims, each a 1/2 thou thicker than the
                    last, and was fortunate to have shim stock on hand that was suitable.
                    Thinking about it, in your case, given the error, it would probably
                    be easier to find suitable shim. But the large error involved means
                    that there would be more of a step from shim to shim, rather than a
                    gradual transition, so all the problems associated with shimming would
                    be exaggerated.

                    > This issue can be corrected one of four ways, with only two being a
                    > real option without having a full machine shop at hand. It's really
                    > hard machining a part for a machine that is torn down when that
                    > machine is the only one that could make the part. Anyway, the four
                    > ways to fix the problem is 1. alter the relationship between the Z
                    > ways and the column. 2. alter the surface of the pivot between the
                    > column and the base. 3. alter the relationship between the Y way
                    > extrusion and the base, and 4. alter the Y way mounts.
                    >

                    Yeah - O.K.

                    > #4 would be the most dificult, followed by #2. #1 was my first
                    > thought but due to the nature of the mounting and the material
                    > involved, it's less attractive now that I think of it. #3 seems to
                    > be the best solution without another big mill to work with.
                    >
                    > Having just gone through the list, a thought just popped in my head.
                    > I am assuming that the mill ships with the column removed from the
                    > base. My problem may be as simple as a piece of shaving, some paint,
                    > or dirt in that joint. It wouldn't take much there to cause the
                    > problem I'm seeing. I haven't taken it apart, and who knows, when
                    > the aquarium let go maybe one of Nemo's friends may have found a new
                    > home. I'm going to seperate and clean that joint tomorrow and see if
                    > that doesn't solve my problem. It would be nice not to have to get
                    > out the old scraper. I've got my fingers crossed.
                    >

                    I think you just hit on a biggy! I think I missed the start of this
                    thread, but if you look back through the archives in this group you'll
                    find lots of references to the need to check for crud in this joint
                    face. You're quite right about the column being removed from the base
                    when shipped new, and not realising you received the mill assembled,
                    it was not obvious that you wouldn't already have checked that joint
                    face.

                    > Don
                    >
                    > PS plan B just popped up also. If plan A, cleaning the column to
                    > base joint doesn't work, I machine a wedge to fit between the Y
                    > Extrusion and the base. If I loose 1/4" of Z height, it is no big
                    > deal. And I can do that before taking the mill apart. All I'll have
                    > to do is to shim the spindle so it is tarcking right and make a
                    > single cut on the wedge. Scrapping is such tedious work, I knew
                    > there had to be a better way.
                    >
                    > Don
                    >

                    Well, if nothing else, I'm glad some easier options are popping up.
                    It really niggled at me to think you were going to get into such a
                    major effort when there should be an easier way. Looks like you might
                    have found a couple! Keep us up to speed on how it turns out.

                    Regards

                    Tom W.
                  • Don Rogers
                    ... Well, I just took the column off the base and the problem jumped right out. The salt water was the culprit. The lower 1/3rd of the joint surfaces have
                    Message 9 of 25 , Jul 5, 2004
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                      >I did get the mill used. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that the
                      >mill wasn't correct from the factory. I don't know what the previous
                      >owner did to or with it other than having a leak in his salt water
                      >aquirum on the floor above the mill and letting some salt water set
                      >on it and cause some minor rust.

                      Well, I just took the column off the base and the problem jumped right
                      out. The salt water was the culprit. The lower 1/3rd of the joint surfaces
                      have some rust. This was wedging the column off kilter. I'm going to
                      stone down the rust and coat everything with some anti-seize to stop the
                      rusting and hopefully that will solve the problem. If that doesn't take
                      care of it, I'll have to have both surfaces re-machined back down to clean
                      metal again. I'm hopping that if this is necessary, that Taig will do the
                      job, for a price. I'm going to take some photos and post them. I think it
                      might be of help to someone else.

                      Don
                    • Tom Wightman
                      ... Don Excellent news. At least there s a definite, identifiable reason for the misalignment, and any work you do now will be directed at the source of the
                      Message 10 of 25 , Jul 5, 2004
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                        Don Rogers wrote:

                        >
                        > Well, I just took the column off the base and the problem jumped right
                        > out. The salt water was the culprit. The lower 1/3rd of the joint surfaces
                        > have some rust. This was wedging the column off kilter. I'm going to
                        > stone down the rust and coat everything with some anti-seize to stop the
                        > rusting and hopefully that will solve the problem. If that doesn't take
                        > care of it, I'll have to have both surfaces re-machined back down to clean
                        > metal again. I'm hopping that if this is necessary, that Taig will do the
                        > job, for a price. I'm going to take some photos and post them. I think it
                        > might be of help to someone else.
                        >
                        > Don
                        >

                        Don

                        Excellent news. At least there's a definite, identifiable reason for
                        the misalignment, and any work you do now will be directed at the
                        source of the problem.

                        Regards

                        Tom W.
                      • Don Rogers
                        ... As the say, Now for the rest of the story . I cleaned up the faces of the column joint with an India stone. Put it back together and that fixed about
                        Message 11 of 25 , Jul 5, 2004
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                          >At least there's a definite, identifiable reason for
                          >the misalignment, and any work you do now will be directed at the
                          >source of the problem.

                          As the say, "Now for the rest of the story". I cleaned up the faces of the
                          column joint with an India stone. Put it back together and that fixed
                          about 1/2 of the alignment problem. I took the column off again and
                          removed the Z ways. I measured the machined surface that the Z ways mount
                          on to the face of the joint. I had about 0.0001" off here, no problem. I
                          then measured from the surface of the table to the joint face on the
                          base. Here, I was off about 0.002", enough to be the cause of the
                          problem. I then took the Y way mount off the base, and there lay the
                          problem. It was a manufacturing problem. Paint. It looked like they had
                          put masking tape on the machined part of the base and painted the
                          base. The only problem was that the edge of the paint was under the Y way
                          mount and rather than that mound setting on the machined surface, it was
                          setting on paint. I cleaned off the paint, and stoned the surface of the
                          mount and the base and re-assembled. Now, the Z travel to Y is off
                          0.0009" over 6" travel. I can live with that. The Z to X is off less than
                          0.0001" over 6".

                          I then mounted the spindle and took a reading on a piece of precession
                          ground aluminum that I have and the spindle is off about 0.0005" along the
                          Y and 0.00025 along the X. both over a 5" D swing. I'm going to call it good.

                          I took some photos of the process and after I get some words to go with
                          them, I'll up the instructions in the files area.

                          Now to make some chips.

                          Don
                        • Tom Wightman
                          Good stuff Don. Root cause analysis at it s best! I ll look forward to seeing the pics. Regards Tom W.
                          Message 12 of 25 , Jul 5, 2004
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                            Good stuff Don. Root cause analysis at it's best! I'll look forward
                            to seeing the pics.

                            Regards

                            Tom W.

                            Don Rogers wrote:

                            >>At least there's a definite, identifiable reason for
                            >>the misalignment, and any work you do now will be directed at the
                            >>source of the problem.
                            >
                            >
                            > As the say, "Now for the rest of the story". I cleaned up the faces of the
                            > column joint with an India stone. Put it back together and that fixed
                            > about 1/2 of the alignment problem. I took the column off again and
                            > removed the Z ways. I measured the machined surface that the Z ways mount
                            > on to the face of the joint. I had about 0.0001" off here, no problem. I
                            > then measured from the surface of the table to the joint face on the
                            > base. Here, I was off about 0.002", enough to be the cause of the
                            > problem. I then took the Y way mount off the base, and there lay the
                            > problem. It was a manufacturing problem. Paint. It looked like they had
                            > put masking tape on the machined part of the base and painted the
                            > base. The only problem was that the edge of the paint was under the Y way
                            > mount and rather than that mound setting on the machined surface, it was
                            > setting on paint. I cleaned off the paint, and stoned the surface of the
                            > mount and the base and re-assembled. Now, the Z travel to Y is off
                            > 0.0009" over 6" travel. I can live with that. The Z to X is off less than
                            > 0.0001" over 6".
                            >
                            > I then mounted the spindle and took a reading on a piece of precession
                            > ground aluminum that I have and the spindle is off about 0.0005" along the
                            > Y and 0.00025 along the X. both over a 5" D swing. I'm going to call it good.
                            >
                            > I took some photos of the process and after I get some words to go with
                            > them, I'll up the instructions in the files area.
                            >
                            > Now to make some chips.
                            >
                            > Don
                            >
                          • Carol & Jerry Jankura
                            Hi, Don: I don t know how the costs will compare, but you might want to look at purchasing replacement parts instead of refurbishing those that were damaged.
                            Message 13 of 25 , Jul 5, 2004
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                              Hi, Don:

                              I don't know how the costs will compare, but you might want to look at
                              purchasing replacement parts instead of refurbishing those that were
                              damaged. If you don't have a friend with the proper machine, machining time
                              can be quite expensive.

                              -- Jerry


                              > >I did get the mill used. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that the
                              > >mill wasn't correct from the factory. I don't know what the previous
                              > >owner did to or with it other than having a leak in his salt water
                              > >aquirum on the floor above the mill and letting some salt water set
                              > >on it and cause some minor rust.
                              >
                              > Well, I just took the column off the base and the problem jumped right
                              > out. The salt water was the culprit. The lower 1/3rd of the
                              > joint surfaces
                              > have some rust. This was wedging the column off kilter. I'm going to
                              > stone down the rust and coat everything with some anti-seize to stop the
                              > rusting and hopefully that will solve the problem. If that doesn't take
                              > care of it, I'll have to have both surfaces re-machined back down
                              > to clean
                              > metal again. I'm hopping that if this is necessary, that Taig
                              > will do the
                              > job, for a price. I'm going to take some photos and post them.
                              > I think it
                              > might be of help to someone else.
                            • Don Rogers
                              ... This might take a while. Seems that Yahoo thinks my photos folder is full. They think I have 29M of files, and I can only find .35M. As soon as I get
                              Message 14 of 25 , Jul 6, 2004
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                                At 09:26 PM 7/6/2004 +0000, you wrote:
                                >I'll look forward
                                >to seeing the pics.

                                This might take a while. Seems that Yahoo thinks my photos folder is
                                full. They think I have 29M of files, and I can only find .35M. As soon
                                as I get this resolved, I'll upload the photos. If I can resolve it soon,
                                I'll post them on my site and post the link. (no home page, so don't bother
                                looking)

                                Don
                              • klickcue
                                Hi Don, It is not you. Both the Files and the Photos section are almost full for the space the Yahoo! has allowed. Chris ... is ... As soon ... it soon, ...
                                Message 15 of 25 , Jul 7, 2004
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                                  Hi Don,

                                  It is not you. Both the Files and the Photos section are almost full
                                  for the space the Yahoo! has allowed.

                                  Chris


                                  --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, Don Rogers <Don@C...> wrote:
                                  > At 09:26 PM 7/6/2004 +0000, you wrote:
                                  > >I'll look forward
                                  > >to seeing the pics.
                                  >
                                  > This might take a while. Seems that Yahoo thinks my photos folder
                                  is
                                  > full. They think I have 29M of files, and I can only find .35M.
                                  As soon
                                  > as I get this resolved, I'll upload the photos. If I can resolve
                                  it soon,
                                  > I'll post them on my site and post the link. (no home page, so
                                  don't bother
                                  > looking)
                                  >
                                  > Don
                                • Felice Luftschein and Nicholas Carter
                                  Try the yahoogroup taigfiles, lots of space there for our pics... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/taigfiles felice@casco.net is Felice Luftschein and Nicholas
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Jul 7, 2004
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                                    Try the yahoogroup taigfiles, lots of space there for our pics...
                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/taigfiles

                                    felice@... is Felice Luftschein and Nicholas Carter. Check out our
                                    homepage www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "klickcue" <klickcue@...>
                                    To: <taigtools@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 10:11 AM
                                    Subject: [taigtools] Re:Column Adjustment


                                    > Hi Don,
                                    >
                                    > It is not you. Both the Files and the Photos section are almost full
                                    > for the space the Yahoo! has allowed.
                                    >
                                    > Chris
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, Don Rogers <Don@C...> wrote:
                                    > > At 09:26 PM 7/6/2004 +0000, you wrote:
                                    > > >I'll look forward
                                    > > >to seeing the pics.
                                    > >
                                    > > This might take a while. Seems that Yahoo thinks my photos folder
                                    > is
                                    > > full. They think I have 29M of files, and I can only find .35M.
                                    > As soon
                                    > > as I get this resolved, I'll upload the photos. If I can resolve
                                    > it soon,
                                    > > I'll post them on my site and post the link. (no home page, so
                                    > don't bother
                                    > > looking)
                                    > >
                                    > > Don
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > To Post a message, send it to: taigtools@...
                                    >
                                    > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: taigtools-unsubscribe@...
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Let the chips fly!
                                    >
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • Don Rogers
                                    ... Thanks Nick. I just uploaded a file, Taig-Column.PDF to this group files area, which is the photos and the narrative to go with them on my problem and
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Jul 7, 2004
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                                      >
                                      >Try the yahoogroup taigfiles, lots of space there for our pics...
                                      >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/taigfiles

                                      Thanks Nick. I just uploaded a file, Taig-Column.PDF to this group files
                                      area, which is the photos and the narrative to go with them on my problem
                                      and it's resolution.

                                      Don
                                    • Tom Wightman
                                      ... Nice job on the documentation Don. Thanks for posting it to the group, and congrats on getting the problem sorted. Tom W.
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Jul 8, 2004
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                                        Don Rogers wrote:
                                        >>Try the yahoogroup taigfiles, lots of space there for our pics...
                                        >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/taigfiles
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Thanks Nick. I just uploaded a file, Taig-Column.PDF to this group files
                                        > area, which is the photos and the narrative to go with them on my problem
                                        > and it's resolution.
                                        >

                                        Nice job on the documentation Don. Thanks for posting it to the
                                        group, and congrats on getting the problem sorted.

                                        Tom W.
                                      • sciciora
                                        Very informative! It has inspired me to check to see if my mill is square. So far, it has not mattered; I ve done mostly engraving and drilling holes in flat
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Jul 8, 2004
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                                          Very informative! It has inspired me to check to see if my mill is
                                          square. So far, it has not mattered; I've done mostly engraving and
                                          drilling holes in flat panels. One thing I need to get is a good
                                          machinest's square. What size is the one you used?

                                          Does anyone know how to "check" a machinest square? The prices range
                                          from very cheap to very expensive. For as much as I think I might use
                                          it, I'd like to start out at the cheap end of things, only if there is
                                          some way I can check it to make sure it's square.

                                          Where did you get that precision ground plate, and how do you know it
                                          is really flat?

                                          Thanks for taking the time to write up, share and educate based on
                                          your experiences!

                                          - Steve

                                          --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, Don Rogers <Don@C...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > >
                                          > >Try the yahoogroup taigfiles, lots of space there for our pics...
                                          > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/taigfiles
                                          >
                                          > Thanks Nick. I just uploaded a file, Taig-Column.PDF to this group
                                          files
                                          > area, which is the photos and the narrative to go with them on my
                                          problem
                                          > and it's resolution.
                                          >
                                          > Don
                                        • campgems
                                          ... Thank you ... The one in the photos was a 6 brown and sharp. I picked up a set of three from Enco a while back. The set was 2, 4, and 6 workshop grade
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Jul 8, 2004
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                                            > Very informative!

                                            Thank you

                                            >One thing I need to get is a good machinest's square. What size is
                                            >the one you used?

                                            The one in the photos was a 6" brown and sharp. I picked up a set of
                                            three from Enco a while back. The set was 2, 4, and 6" "workshop
                                            grade for $39.50

                                            > Does anyone know how to "check" a machinest square?
                                            There are two ways. First set it up like I did and take your
                                            reading. Now, turn the square 180 degrees onthe table and take the
                                            reading again. If it is the same, the square is square. If not, you
                                            can caculate how much it is off by the readings you get, then adjust
                                            accordingly. The other way is to use three squares. set two up face
                                            to face. Note if the block light full length. Now check both of
                                            these two with the third one. If you can block light between the
                                            blades with all combinations of two, the they are all square.

                                            >The prices range from very cheap to very expensive. For as much as
                                            >I think I might use it, I'd like to start out at the cheap end of
                                            >things, only if there is some way I can check it to make sure it's
                                            >square.
                                            For 99.9% of the work we do, the les expensive will be just fine.
                                            If they are off, note how much for future reference. You will be
                                            susprised at how much use you will get from a set though.

                                            > Where did you get that precision ground plate, and how do you know
                                            >it is really flat?

                                            I picked up three or for pieces at a metals salvage yard in San Jose
                                            last year. every time I'm up there, I stop in to see what they
                                            have. I think their aluminum is $1.00 a lb, so I usualy drop 40 to
                                            50 bucks each trip. I didn't do any special check, other than to
                                            feel the way it sat on the table. A trully flat piece will kind of
                                            suck down on the table where one with a very slight bow will slide
                                            around quite eaisly. I guess I could do a series of three with some
                                            bluing and see how they look. I'm guessing that they are 90%
                                            coverage or better though.

                                            Don
                                          • David
                                            If the column is perfectly vertical, will the end mills dance around due to opposite sides cutting in opposite directions ? I don t have mine perfect on a
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Jul 10, 2004
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                                              If the column is perfectly vertical, will the end mills dance around
                                              due to opposite sides cutting in opposite directions ? I don't have
                                              mine perfect on a different brand micromill (fixed column ),and
                                              flycutting works pretty well but might have a slight downwards bow
                                              when facing across a wide part ( tilted along X ). When using an end
                                              mill, I get one side of it's track digging in by a thousandth or
                                              less. I am hoping Taig will be better and need to know how critical
                                              vertical alignment is before my trial period is up.
                                            • campgems
                                              ... around ... Not unless something is loose, or you are taking cuts to large to handle. Besides the condition you describe will only happen on a plunge.
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Jul 11, 2004
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                                                > If the column is perfectly vertical, will the end mills dance
                                                around
                                                > due to opposite sides cutting in opposite directions ?

                                                Not unless something is loose, or you are taking cuts to large to
                                                handle. Besides the condition you describe will only happen on a
                                                plunge. When you are making a cut, only a portion of the mill is
                                                cutting, the rest is just getting into position to cut.

                                                I don't have
                                                > mine perfect on a different brand micromill (fixed column ),and
                                                > flycutting works pretty well but might have a slight downwards bow
                                                > when facing across a wide part ( tilted along X ). When using an
                                                end
                                                > mill, I get one side of it's track digging in by a thousandth or
                                                > less. I am hoping Taig will be better and need to know how critical
                                                > vertical alignment is before my trial period is up.

                                                If you machine is set up correctly, there will be no steps, groves,
                                                dips, etc when cutting, unless you are doing them intentionally.

                                                The Taig will do a very good job for you, within the limits of the
                                                machine. You can't turn a 1" mill, and take a 1/2" deep cut at 75%
                                                step-over. That requires a Big machine. Within it's limits, the
                                                Taig is a great little machine.

                                                Don
                                              • sciciora
                                                As luck would have it, the place where I drop off my aluminum cans had a 20 x 3 x 1/4 tooling plate aluminum. I have not measured the thickness in
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Jul 12, 2004
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                                                  As luck would have it, the place where I drop off my aluminum cans had
                                                  a 20" x 3" x 1/4" "tooling plate" aluminum. I have not measured the
                                                  thickness in several places, but It's nice and shiny, and looks like
                                                  it was flycut or something. I'm hopeful that it will check out well
                                                  with some micrometers.

                                                  Also, P. 231 of the Enco catalog (http://www.use-enco.com) has a 4
                                                  piece set of "workshop grade" squares for $19.95 (enco brand Model
                                                  638-7715). I think I'll pick up this set (right price, more than one
                                                  so I can compare them against each other (to the lowest common
                                                  denomator), and as soon as I'm good enough to learn the limitations of
                                                  these tools (usually never happens :-) I can upgrade later).

                                                  Thanks again!

                                                  - Steven Ciciora

                                                  --- In taigtools@yahoogroups.com, "campgems" <Don@C...> wrote:
                                                  > > Very informative!
                                                  >
                                                  > Thank you
                                                  >
                                                  > >One thing I need to get is a good machinest's square. What size is
                                                  > >the one you used?
                                                  >
                                                  > The one in the photos was a 6" brown and sharp. I picked up a set of
                                                  > three from Enco a while back. The set was 2, 4, and 6" "workshop
                                                  > grade for $39.50
                                                  <snip>
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