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throwback baseball 1.0

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  • Rickert
    Has anyone played throwback Baseball 1.0. I m looking for some opinions before I purchase. Thanks.
    Message 1 of 27 , Jan 16, 2010
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      Has anyone played throwback Baseball 1.0. I'm looking for some opinions before I purchase. Thanks.
    • gen1400
      Rick I have never played it, but ever since you asked on the delphi forums I did look into it. I watched the video a couple of times. What it looks like to
      Message 2 of 27 , Jan 16, 2010
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        Rick

        I have never played it, but ever since you asked on the delphi forums I did look into it. I watched the video a couple of times. What it looks like to me is this:

        If you use the Basic Key, then the players names and stats don't matter. Just roll the dice and your number 9 hitter has just as much a chance to hit a HR as your number 4 batter.

        I did notice it looks like they have 5 total "Keys" I caught a glimpse of one of the headings where it says "use this key if the number of the hitter equals a 1 after subtracting the pitcher"

        I find this pretty interesting. From what I can tell, it looks like they have some rules/charts for rating your own players. I only see 5 "keys" but their could be more. I assume that each player gets a rating of 1-5 with 5 being the best? I believe you would take your hitter and subtract the pitcher rating and that would be the "key" you would use?

        With three six sided dice that you add together, you can only have 16 results per key, which could also be broken down even more.

        I know that you aren't looking for dead on accurate results, you just want a .300 hitter to perform in the .285-.315 range and so on.

        Without seeing the actual rating system the game is hard to judge. Do they rate hitters based on batting average or HRs or something else?

        Heck, for 10 bucks it is probably worth the shot. Personally, the game looks interesting enough and if the system for rating players needs tweaking, it shouldn't be too difficult to do it yourself. I know you don't mind rating players yourself, so that makes the game more attractive in my opinion.

        The game also looks like it is quick to play. I was thinking about ordering it myself but, last year I bought Time Travel Baseball and MVP Baseball and I don't play either one of those games because I don't have the time.

        If you get it, I would love to read a review after you check it out.

        George
        Gen1400 Gaming









        --- In tabletopbaseball@yahoogroups.com, "Rickert" <rickert46015@...> wrote:
        >
        > Has anyone played throwback Baseball 1.0. I'm looking for some opinions before I purchase. Thanks.
        >
      • Thomas Fuhs
        I looked it up on www.boardgamegeek.com. No hits.
        Message 3 of 27 , Jan 17, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          I looked it up on www.boardgamegeek.com. No hits.

          On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 7:20 AM, Rickert <rickert46015@...> wrote:
           

          Has anyone played throwback Baseball 1.0. I'm looking for some opinions before I purchase. Thanks.


        • Rick Teverbaugh
          I found someone who purchased the game and said it isn t good for trying to recreate anything historic as there are like just three types of hitters with no
          Message 4 of 27 , Jan 18, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            I found someone who purchased the game and said it isn't good for trying to recreate anything historic as there are like just three types of hitters with no difference for power and only two or three types of pitchers.

            I do so love MVP Baseball. I wish they would release the 2009 season and add the Cy Young pitching module, which would give some starting pitching stats to go with the hitting you can now obtain. But I know Brien Martin who runs Hot Stove Games just had his mother pass away so I don't expect either of them for a while.

            Thanks for answering though.

            Rick T.


            From: gen1400 <george@...>
            To: tabletopbaseball@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sat, January 16, 2010 12:47:08 PM
            Subject: Re: throwback baseball 1.0

             

            Rick

            I have never played it, but ever since you asked on the delphi forums I did look into it. I watched the video a couple of times. What it looks like to me is this:

            If you use the Basic Key, then the players names and stats don't matter. Just roll the dice and your number 9 hitter has just as much a chance to hit a HR as your number 4 batter.

            I did notice it looks like they have 5 total "Keys" I caught a glimpse of one of the headings where it says "use this key if the number of the hitter equals a 1 after subtracting the pitcher"

            I find this pretty interesting. From what I can tell, it looks like they have some rules/charts for rating your own players. I only see 5 "keys" but their could be more. I assume that each player gets a rating of 1-5 with 5 being the best? I believe you would take your hitter and subtract the pitcher rating and that would be the "key" you would use?

            With three six sided dice that you add together, you can only have 16 results per key, which could also be broken down even more.

            I know that you aren't looking for dead on accurate results, you just want a .300 hitter to perform in the .285-.315 range and so on.

            Without seeing the actual rating system the game is hard to judge. Do they rate hitters based on batting average or HRs or something else?

            Heck, for 10 bucks it is probably worth the shot. Personally, the game looks interesting enough and if the system for rating players needs tweaking, it shouldn't be too difficult to do it yourself. I know you don't mind rating players yourself, so that makes the game more attractive in my opinion.

            The game also looks like it is quick to play. I was thinking about ordering it myself but, last year I bought Time Travel Baseball and MVP Baseball and I don't play either one of those games because I don't have the time.

            If you get it, I would love to read a review after you check it out.

            George
            Gen1400 Gaming


            --- In tabletopbaseball@ yahoogroups. com, "Rickert" <rickert46015@ ...> wrote:
            >
            > Has anyone played throwback Baseball 1.0. I'm looking for some opinions before I purchase. Thanks.
            >


          • Ken
            I wrote a review of this game on another Yahoo! baseball game forum (baseballgames) back in March of last year. Fortunately, I was able to locate and retrieve
            Message 5 of 27 , Jan 19, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              I wrote a review of this game on another Yahoo! baseball game forum (baseballgames) back in March of last year. Fortunately, I was able to locate and retrieve the post and reproduce the review here. There were other posts on this topic so perhaps one can go to that forum and read the other posts. There have already been alternatives and enhancements to the game suggested. Hope this brief review helps.

              REVIEW

              I am a sucker for baseball games...and
              especially new ones. So when I saw the ad for
              this game on one of the sports forum's I frequent,
              I couldn't resist. I visited the website but it
              only provided me with scant information. Even
              the video provided, which is available on both
              U-Ttube and at the website, did not provide me
              with enough information. I was especially
              interested in the play mechanics and how the
              game results are obtained. I wrote to the
              developers, aberdeentradingco.com, and they
              quickly responded to my questions. Although
              I would have liked more information, I was still
              intrigued enough to buy the game and, afterall,
              I could not resist the temptation. So I
              plopped down my $8.95 and took the plunge.

              The game is available only as a PDF download.
              It arrived in my e-mail box about three hours
              after purchase. Included in the file are the
              game's instructions (2 pages), "player cards"
              (these cards are not like player cards you
              may be familiar with. They do not contain
              specific player statistics or characterisitics.
              They do not even contain play results. They
              are cards that enable you to create your own
              players by writing in a player's name and a
              number determining their overall quality.
              Quality is determined by 1 -3 for pitchers
              and 4-6 for hitters. The combination of these
              two numbers will determine which results key
              you read the play outcome from. But we will
              talk more about that later when we get into
              the game's mechanics.), outcome keys which
              constitutes the core of the game, steal cards,
              a 8" x 11" baseball diamond to play the game on,
              scoresheets, and 2 examples of how the scoresheets
              can be used. These scoresheets are entirely
              optional and not essential to playing the game.

              All the components are easy to read and well done.
              The result keys, which are central to the game,
              are easily copied onto 2 pages front and back.
              There are 5 result keys in the game with 2 keys
              being put on a single page. The steal cards also
              constitute 2 pages and the scorecards, if you
              decide to use them, one. Player cards make up
              2 additional pages with 10 players per page.
              To make up two teams to play a game, you will
              go through four pages, preferably of card stock
              quality. Since this is a PDF download, you will
              have to print out all the components yourself.
              So let's talk about how the game plays...

              To begin, this is definitely an introductory
              game. The play dynamics are quite simple, even
              in the "advanced" version. In the basic version,
              you roll 3D6, add up the numbers, consult the
              correct key, access the number rolled , and you
              obtain your result. Play outcomes on these keys
              are numbered from 3 to 18 and include things
              such as hits, strikeouts, errors, fly outs,
              groundouts, walks, double plays, you know,
              anything that can happen in a baseball game.
              Remember that 2 keys are printed per page front
              and back, for a total of 5 keys. The other page
              constains a bunt key and a steal key. There are
              slight variations of the outcomes on each of the
              5 primary result keys but the different keys are
              only used in the "advanced" version. Extra-base
              hits are usually triples of a certain roll
              (4-4-4 for example).

              In the advanced version, your individual players
              are rated and that number is put on the player
              card. Ratings are not individual player
              characteristics but are a single global rating.
              Pitchers are rated from 1-3, with one being good
              and three being poor. Batters are rated 4-6,
              with four being good and six being poor. You
              then compare these two numbers to arrive at a
              single number, by subtracting the pitcher rating
              from the batter rating. The number obtained
              determines which numbered key you read the
              play result from. It's that simple. Compare
              pitcher and batter player ratings which determines
              what numbered key you read the result from, roll
              the 3D6, find your result on that key, and move
              any base runners or record any outs. Although
              the website says games will usually take about
              an hour or so to play, you could easily get one
              done in less than 30 minutes. Because you only
              consult one key for a result, game play moves
              quickly.

              The keys do appear to be accurate, and as stated,
              reflect most plays that can occur in a baseball
              game. But because the results are generic, you
              lose the individual feel for players and how
              their characteristics may impact a game. For
              example, each player has an equal chance of
              hitting a home run. All dice rolls of 18 on all
              five of the keys are home runs. Doesn't matter
              if it is a light hitting shortstop, a pitcher,
              or a power hitting first baseman. A home run is
              a home run is a home run, if the number rolled
              is 18. This is similar for other hits as well.
              A 14 is a single and 4-4-4 is a double. Again,
              individual characteristics or attributes of
              players are not considered.

              The same generic feel applies to bunting and
              stealing. To bunt, you simply roll 1D6 and consult
              the bunt key. This key applies to all players.
              Stealing is perhaps the most innovative part of
              this game. You use different colored cards to
              steal, with each player's speed being rated
              according to three colors. Fast players have
              green cards, medium speed players yellow cards,
              and slow players, red. Two cards are blue and
              considered wild. If the card drawn matches the
              color of the your player stealing, then he is safe.
              Otherwise, he is out. I found this whole approach
              to stealing quite innovative and will likely import
              this system over to my playing of Pizza Box Baseball.
              This innovative stealing system is probably the
              strongest suit of this game. Overall, this game
              definitely has a "generic feel" to it. But that
              does not mean it is not fun and shouldn't be
              considered.

              If you are looking for a quick diversion and a
              game absent of complex rules and mechanics, then
              this is it. The introduction price is also right
              at $8.95. The price listed on the website is $9.95
              but they offer a special "promo" price if you
              input the words "web" or "tube" when purchasing.
              This entitles you to 10% off.

              This game will also be an excellent way to
              introduce videogame addicted kids to the joys of
              tabletop sports gaming. It is a very simple game
              to learn, simple to play , and probably can be
              understood by players as young as 7, as long as
              they understand the rules of baseball. But if
              you're looking for something a bit more in-depth,
              more realistic, or more complex, then look elsewhere.

              To conclude, this is definitely an introductory
              game, and could serve as the first rung in a ladder
              to more complex baseball simulations. But the
              game has a very generic feel to it and as an
              introductory game, I believe Jeff Downey's little
              gem of a game called The Baseabll Card Game, is
              a better choice. The Baseabll Card Game offers
              more depth, but the play mechanics remain simple,
              using 1 page of front and back charts and a deck of
              playing cards to obtain results. Each player has
              more of a individual feel to them in this game
              as well , as batters are rated for hitting quality,
              eye ,and power; while pitchers are rated for overall
              quality and control. Defensive quality of individual
              players are also considered, as well as stealing,
              bunting, and hit and run. Rating individual players
              does take more time in The Baseabll Card Game but
              once those ratings are established, the game it is
              a blast to play. I think it offers a more rewarding
              experience as an introductory baseball game than
              Throwback Baseball.

              But Throwback baseball is not without merit.
              It is simpler to play than The Baseabll Card Game,
              which will appeal to a younger or less sophisticated
              baseball audience, the steal system is quite
              innovative, it will provide you with an enjoyable
              diversion, and I will probably figure something out
              in what to do with the various numbered keys.
              I may incorporate them into my play of Baseball
              Strategy or figure out another system to determine
              when the various keys should be utilized. Perhaps
              the greatest thing I could develop in this game
              is to determine when a numbered key will be used,
              not based on a comparison between pitcher and
              batter, but on some other criteria. Maybe I
              could develop a pitcher/batter interface, similar
              to Baseabll Strategy, that will determine what key
              will be used. I may also tweak the keys a bit,
              and with those two changes, Throwback Baseabll
              may provide a more enjoyable experience. For
              those of you who have purchased this game, tell me
              what you think, and be willing to share some ideas
              on how you can improve the use of the result keys
              or perhaps change the actual keys themselves to
              inject more of an individual character into the game.

              Ken Sell



              --- In tabletopbaseball@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Fuhs <2ampfuhs@...> wrote:
              >
              > I looked it up on www.boardgamegeek.com. No hits.
              >
              > On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 7:20 AM, Rickert <rickert46015@...> wrote:
              >
              > >
              > >
              > > Has anyone played throwback Baseball 1.0. I'm looking for some opinions
              > > before I purchase. Thanks.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
            • Ken
              Since writing that original review of Throwback Baseball, I stumbled across another game that has similar play dynamics as Throwback Baseball. Entitled Fall
              Message 6 of 27 , Jan 19, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                Since writing that original review of Throwback Baseball, I stumbled across another game that has similar play dynamics as Throwback Baseball. Entitled Fall Classic Baseball, it uses play sheets and D6 dice as well to determne results. It is a free game and was available for download from Jeff Downley's web site tabletop-sports.com. It uses outcome keys but has more of an individual feel to it. You can create individual players as it takes individual player characteristics more into account. If you enjoy playing Throwback Baseball, you should give this game a look as well.

                Ken


                --- In tabletopbaseball@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Fuhs <2ampfuhs@...> wrote:
                >
                > I looked it up on www.boardgamegeek.com. No hits.
                >
                > On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 7:20 AM, Rickert <rickert46015@...> wrote:
                >
                > >
                > >
                > > Has anyone played throwback Baseball 1.0. I'm looking for some opinions
                > > before I purchase. Thanks.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
              • Rick Teverbaugh
                I like the look of this. I downloaded and printed it but haven t tried it. Have you played it much? Have you created any players for it? Thanks for the
                Message 7 of 27 , Jan 19, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  I like the look of this. I downloaded and printed it but haven't tried it. Have you played it much? Have you created any players for it?

                  Thanks for the headsup.

                  Rick T.


                  From: Ken <kekasell@...>
                  To: tabletopbaseball@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tue, January 19, 2010 9:56:43 AM
                  Subject: Re: throwback baseball 1.0

                   

                  Since writing that original review of Throwback Baseball, I stumbled across another game that has similar play dynamics as Throwback Baseball. Entitled Fall Classic Baseball, it uses play sheets and D6 dice as well to determne results. It is a free game and was available for download from Jeff Downley's web site tabletop-sports. com. It uses outcome keys but has more of an individual feel to it. You can create individual players as it takes individual player characteristics more into account. If you enjoy playing Throwback Baseball, you should give this game a look as well.

                  Ken

                  --- In tabletopbaseball@ yahoogroups. com, Thomas Fuhs <2ampfuhs@.. .> wrote:
                  >
                  > I looked it up on www.boardgamegeek. com. No hits.
                  >
                  > On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 7:20 AM, Rickert <rickert46015@ ...> wrote:
                  >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Has anyone played throwback Baseball 1.0. I'm looking for some opinions
                  > > before I purchase. Thanks.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >


                • dwight braid
                  If you like baseball board games and want to check out a new one, I suggest you take a look at Xtra Innings...It is as close as it gets to replicating not only
                  Message 8 of 27 , Jan 19, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    If you like baseball board games and want to check out a new one, I suggest you take a look at Xtra Innings...It is as close as it gets to replicating not only all the strategy, but also the pace and emotion of a real game...there are no dice - this is not a game of  luck and you have to choose every pitch and every play. The  pitching/hitting sequence is really a blast - it is a real head game...You can play it one on one, but it is also really great in teams...check it out...

                    --- On Tue, 1/19/10, Ken <kekasell@...> wrote:

                    From: Ken <kekasell@...>
                    Subject: Re: throwback baseball 1.0
                    To: tabletopbaseball@yahoogroups.com
                    Received: Tuesday, January 19, 2010, 9:47 AM

                     

                    I wrote a review of this game on another Yahoo! baseball game forum (baseballgames) back in March of last year. Fortunately, I was able to locate and retrieve the post and reproduce the review here. There were other posts on this topic so perhaps one can go to that forum and read the other posts. There have already been alternatives and enhancements to the game suggested. Hope this brief review helps.

                    REVIEW

                    I am a sucker for baseball games...and
                    especially new ones. So when I saw the ad for
                    this game on one of the sports forum's I frequent,
                    I couldn't resist. I visited the website but it
                    only provided me with scant information. Even
                    the video provided, which is available on both
                    U-Ttube and at the website, did not provide me
                    with enough information. I was especially
                    interested in the play mechanics and how the
                    game results are obtained. I wrote to the
                    developers, aberdeentradingco. com, and they
                    quickly responded to my questions. Although
                    I would have liked more information, I was still
                    intrigued enough to buy the game and, afterall,
                    I could not resist the temptation. So I
                    plopped down my $8.95 and took the plunge.

                    The game is available only as a PDF download.
                    It arrived in my e-mail box about three hours
                    after purchase. Included in the file are the
                    game's instructions (2 pages), "player cards"
                    (these cards are not like player cards you
                    may be familiar with. They do not contain
                    specific player statistics or characterisitics.
                    They do not even contain play results. They
                    are cards that enable you to create your own
                    players by writing in a player's name and a
                    number determining their overall quality.
                    Quality is determined by 1 -3 for pitchers
                    and 4-6 for hitters. The combination of these
                    two numbers will determine which results key
                    you read the play outcome from. But we will
                    talk more about that later when we get into
                    the game's mechanics.), outcome keys which
                    constitutes the core of the game, steal cards,
                    a 8" x 11" baseball diamond to play the game on,
                    scoresheets, and 2 examples of how the scoresheets
                    can be used. These scoresheets are entirely
                    optional and not essential to playing the game.

                    All the components are easy to read and well done.
                    The result keys, which are central to the game,
                    are easily copied onto 2 pages front and back.
                    There are 5 result keys in the game with 2 keys
                    being put on a single page. The steal cards also
                    constitute 2 pages and the scorecards, if you
                    decide to use them, one. Player cards make up
                    2 additional pages with 10 players per page.
                    To make up two teams to play a game, you will
                    go through four pages, preferably of card stock
                    quality. Since this is a PDF download, you will
                    have to print out all the components yourself.
                    So let's talk about how the game plays...

                    To begin, this is definitely an introductory
                    game. The play dynamics are quite simple, even
                    in the "advanced" version. In the basic version,
                    you roll 3D6, add up the numbers, consult the
                    correct key, access the number rolled , and you
                    obtain your result. Play outcomes on these keys
                    are numbered from 3 to 18 and include things
                    such as hits, strikeouts, errors, fly outs,
                    groundouts, walks, double plays, you know,
                    anything that can happen in a baseball game.
                    Remember that 2 keys are printed per page front
                    and back, for a total of 5 keys. The other page
                    constains a bunt key and a steal key. There are
                    slight variations of the outcomes on each of the
                    5 primary result keys but the different keys are
                    only used in the "advanced" version. Extra-base
                    hits are usually triples of a certain roll
                    (4-4-4 for example).

                    In the advanced version, your individual players
                    are rated and that number is put on the player
                    card. Ratings are not individual player
                    characteristics but are a single global rating..
                    Pitchers are rated from 1-3, with one being good
                    and three being poor. Batters are rated 4-6,
                    with four being good and six being poor. You
                    then compare these two numbers to arrive at a
                    single number, by subtracting the pitcher rating
                    from the batter rating. The number obtained
                    determines which numbered key you read the
                    play result from. It's that simple. Compare
                    pitcher and batter player ratings which determines
                    what numbered key you read the result from, roll
                    the 3D6, find your result on that key, and move
                    any base runners or record any outs. Although
                    the website says games will usually take about
                    an hour or so to play, you could easily get one
                    done in less than 30 minutes. Because you only
                    consult one key for a result, game play moves
                    quickly.

                    The keys do appear to be accurate, and as stated,
                    reflect most plays that can occur in a baseball
                    game. But because the results are generic, you
                    lose the individual feel for players and how
                    their characteristics may impact a game. For
                    example, each player has an equal chance of
                    hitting a home run. All dice rolls of 18 on all
                    five of the keys are home runs. Doesn't matter
                    if it is a light hitting shortstop, a pitcher,
                    or a power hitting first baseman. A home run is
                    a home run is a home run, if the number rolled
                    is 18. This is similar for other hits as well..
                    A 14 is a single and 4-4-4 is a double. Again,
                    individual characteristics or attributes of
                    players are not considered.

                    The same generic feel applies to bunting and
                    stealing. To bunt, you simply roll 1D6 and consult
                    the bunt key. This key applies to all players.
                    Stealing is perhaps the most innovative part of
                    this game. You use different colored cards to
                    steal, with each player's speed being rated
                    according to three colors. Fast players have
                    green cards, medium speed players yellow cards,
                    and slow players, red. Two cards are blue and
                    considered wild. If the card drawn matches the
                    color of the your player stealing, then he is safe.
                    Otherwise, he is out. I found this whole approach
                    to stealing quite innovative and will likely import
                    this system over to my playing of Pizza Box Baseball.
                    This innovative stealing system is probably the
                    strongest suit of this game. Overall, this game
                    definitely has a "generic feel" to it. But that
                    does not mean it is not fun and shouldn't be
                    considered.

                    If you are looking for a quick diversion and a
                    game absent of complex rules and mechanics, then
                    this is it. The introduction price is also right
                    at $8.95. The price listed on the website is $9.95
                    but they offer a special "promo" price if you
                    input the words "web" or "tube" when purchasing.
                    This entitles you to 10% off.

                    This game will also be an excellent way to
                    introduce videogame addicted kids to the joys of
                    tabletop sports gaming. It is a very simple game
                    to learn, simple to play , and probably can be
                    understood by players as young as 7, as long as
                    they understand the rules of baseball. But if
                    you're looking for something a bit more in-depth,
                    more realistic, or more complex, then look elsewhere.

                    To conclude, this is definitely an introductory
                    game, and could serve as the first rung in a ladder
                    to more complex baseball simulations. But the
                    game has a very generic feel to it and as an
                    introductory game, I believe Jeff Downey's little
                    gem of a game called The Baseabll Card Game, is
                    a better choice. The Baseabll Card Game offers
                    more depth, but the play mechanics remain simple,
                    using 1 page of front and back charts and a deck of
                    playing cards to obtain results. Each player has
                    more of a individual feel to them in this game
                    as well , as batters are rated for hitting quality,
                    eye ,and power; while pitchers are rated for overall
                    quality and control. Defensive quality of individual
                    players are also considered, as well as stealing,
                    bunting, and hit and run. Rating individual players
                    does take more time in The Baseabll Card Game but
                    once those ratings are established, the game it is
                    a blast to play. I think it offers a more rewarding
                    experience as an introductory baseball game than
                    Throwback Baseball.

                    But Throwback baseball is not without merit.
                    It is simpler to play than The Baseabll Card Game,
                    which will appeal to a younger or less sophisticated
                    baseball audience, the steal system is quite
                    innovative, it will provide you with an enjoyable
                    diversion, and I will probably figure something out
                    in what to do with the various numbered keys.
                    I may incorporate them into my play of Baseball
                    Strategy or figure out another system to determine
                    when the various keys should be utilized. Perhaps
                    the greatest thing I could develop in this game
                    is to determine when a numbered key will be used,
                    not based on a comparison between pitcher and
                    batter, but on some other criteria. Maybe I
                    could develop a pitcher/batter interface, similar
                    to Baseabll Strategy, that will determine what key
                    will be used. I may also tweak the keys a bit,
                    and with those two changes, Throwback Baseabll
                    may provide a more enjoyable experience. For
                    those of you who have purchased this game, tell me
                    what you think, and be willing to share some ideas
                    on how you can improve the use of the result keys
                    or perhaps change the actual keys themselves to
                    inject more of an individual character into the game.

                    Ken Sell

                    --- In tabletopbaseball@ yahoogroups. com, Thomas Fuhs <2ampfuhs@.. .> wrote:
                    >
                    > I looked it up on www.boardgamegeek. com. No hits.
                    >
                    > On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 7:20 AM, Rickert <rickert46015@ ...> wrote:
                    >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Has anyone played throwback Baseball 1.0. I'm looking for some opinions
                    > > before I purchase. Thanks.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >



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                  • O
                    The really nice thing about this group is that I found out I am not the only one . I was sometimes afraid to tell people what one of my favorite past times
                    Message 9 of 27 , Jan 19, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment
                      The really nice thing about this group is that I found out "I am not the only one".  I was sometimes afraid to tell people what one of my favorite past times was because "tabletop baseball??? rolling dice??? playing cards???" was always a typical response from someone.  I admit I have played nearly every tabletop/computer baseball game I could buy for the last 45 years.  There is a game now called Xtra Innings (not so good, imho) but many moons ago there was Extra Innings which was a stat based game. When I bought it, It had every major league team with a different name Kansas City Crowns and all of the players stats but "No Names"  where the name was it was blank.  That was to get around paying for the rights. That game also sucked but at the time, I thought it was fair.  So many games have come along in the past 10 years, that I have had a hard time finding some of the games.  Most of them are exactly worth what you pay for it.  You pay $10 for a game, what can you expect from it?? Maybe some fun, but not actually any realism (I am talking IF they have actual players).  Many games are as we all know, just thrown out there with the hope maybe someone can make a few bucks.  I am also sure all of us have played some variation of a dice baseball game.  When I was a kid, it didn't bother me that Nellie Fox led our 30 game league with 8 home runs or that Eddie Rakow had an ERA under 2.00.  It was the fun and experience of playing with your friends.  Well, I have rambled long enough, I just wanted to say "Thanks" to all of you so that "I am not the only one" anymore.
                      O

                      Ken wrote:
                       

                      I wrote a review of this game on another Yahoo! baseball game forum (baseballgames) back in March of last year. Fortunately, I was able to locate and retrieve the post and reproduce the review here. There were other posts on this topic so perhaps one can go to that forum and read the other posts. There have already been alternatives and enhancements to the game suggested. Hope this brief review helps.

                      REVIEW

                      I am a sucker for baseball games...and
                      especially new ones. So when I saw the ad for
                      this game on one of the sports forum's I frequent,
                      I couldn't resist. I visited the website but it
                      only provided me with scant information. Even
                      the video provided, which is available on both
                      U-Ttube and at the website, did not provide me
                      with enough information. I was especially
                      interested in the play mechanics and how the
                      game results are obtained. I wrote to the
                      developers, aberdeentradingco. com, and they
                      quickly responded to my questions. Although
                      I would have liked more information, I was still
                      intrigued enough to buy the game and, afterall,
                      I could not resist the temptation. So I
                      plopped down my $8.95 and took the plunge.

                      The game is available only as a PDF download.
                      It arrived in my e-mail box about three hours
                      after purchase. Included in the file are the
                      game's instructions (2 pages), "player cards"
                      (these cards are not like player cards you
                      may be familiar with. They do not contain
                      specific player statistics or characterisitics.
                      They do not even contain play results. They
                      are cards that enable you to create your own
                      players by writing in a player's name and a
                      number determining their overall quality.
                      Quality is determined by 1 -3 for pitchers
                      and 4-6 for hitters. The combination of these
                      two numbers will determine which results key
                      you read the play outcome from. But we will
                      talk more about that later when we get into
                      the game's mechanics.), outcome keys which
                      constitutes the core of the game, steal cards,
                      a 8" x 11" baseball diamond to play the game on,
                      scoresheets, and 2 examples of how the scoresheets
                      can be used. These scoresheets are entirely
                      optional and not essential to playing the game.

                      All the components are easy to read and well done.
                      The result keys, which are central to the game,
                      are easily copied onto 2 pages front and back.
                      There are 5 result keys in the game with 2 keys
                      being put on a single page. The steal cards also
                      constitute 2 pages and the scorecards, if you
                      decide to use them, one. Player cards make up
                      2 additional pages with 10 players per page.
                      To make up two teams to play a game, you will
                      go through four pages, preferably of card stock
                      quality. Since this is a PDF download, you will
                      have to print out all the components yourself.
                      So let's talk about how the game plays...

                      To begin, this is definitely an introductory
                      game. The play dynamics are quite simple, even
                      in the "advanced" version. In the basic version,
                      you roll 3D6, add up the numbers, consult the
                      correct key, access the number rolled , and you
                      obtain your result. Play outcomes on these keys
                      are numbered from 3 to 18 and include things
                      such as hits, strikeouts, errors, fly outs,
                      groundouts, walks, double plays, you know,
                      anything that can happen in a baseball game.
                      Remember that 2 keys are printed per page front
                      and back, for a total of 5 keys. The other page
                      constains a bunt key and a steal key. There are
                      slight variations of the outcomes on each of the
                      5 primary result keys but the different keys are
                      only used in the "advanced" version. Extra-base
                      hits are usually triples of a certain roll
                      (4-4-4 for example).

                      In the advanced version, your individual players
                      are rated and that number is put on the player
                      card. Ratings are not individual player
                      characteristics but are a single global rating.
                      Pitchers are rated from 1-3, with one being good
                      and three being poor. Batters are rated 4-6,
                      with four being good and six being poor. You
                      then compare these two numbers to arrive at a
                      single number, by subtracting the pitcher rating
                      from the batter rating. The number obtained
                      determines which numbered key you read the
                      play result from. It's that simple. Compare
                      pitcher and batter player ratings which determines
                      what numbered key you read the result from, roll
                      the 3D6, find your result on that key, and move
                      any base runners or record any outs. Although
                      the website says games will usually take about
                      an hour or so to play, you could easily get one
                      done in less than 30 minutes. Because you only
                      consult one key for a result, game play moves
                      quickly.

                      The keys do appear to be accurate, and as stated,
                      reflect most plays that can occur in a baseball
                      game. But because the results are generic, you
                      lose the individual feel for players and how
                      their characteristics may impact a game. For
                      example, each player has an equal chance of
                      hitting a home run. All dice rolls of 18 on all
                      five of the keys are home runs. Doesn't matter
                      if it is a light hitting shortstop, a pitcher,
                      or a power hitting first baseman. A home run is
                      a home run is a home run, if the number rolled
                      is 18. This is similar for other hits as well.
                      A 14 is a single and 4-4-4 is a double. Again,
                      individual characteristics or attributes of
                      players are not considered.

                      The same generic feel applies to bunting and
                      stealing. To bunt, you simply roll 1D6 and consult
                      the bunt key. This key applies to all players.
                      Stealing is perhaps the most innovative part of
                      this game. You use different colored cards to
                      steal, with each player's speed being rated
                      according to three colors. Fast players have
                      green cards, medium speed players yellow cards,
                      and slow players, red. Two cards are blue and
                      considered wild. If the card drawn matches the
                      color of the your player stealing, then he is safe.
                      Otherwise, he is out. I found this whole approach
                      to stealing quite innovative and will likely import
                      this system over to my playing of Pizza Box Baseball.
                      This innovative stealing system is probably the
                      strongest suit of this game. Overall, this game
                      definitely has a "generic feel" to it. But that
                      does not mean it is not fun and shouldn't be
                      considered.

                      If you are looking for a quick diversion and a
                      game absent of complex rules and mechanics, then
                      this is it. The introduction price is also right
                      at $8.95. The price listed on the website is $9.95
                      but they offer a special "promo" price if you
                      input the words "web" or "tube" when purchasing.
                      This entitles you to 10% off.

                      This game will also be an excellent way to
                      introduce videogame addicted kids to the joys of
                      tabletop sports gaming. It is a very simple game
                      to learn, simple to play , and probably can be
                      understood by players as young as 7, as long as
                      they understand the rules of baseball. But if
                      you're looking for something a bit more in-depth,
                      more realistic, or more complex, then look elsewhere.

                      To conclude, this is definitely an introductory
                      game, and could serve as the first rung in a ladder
                      to more complex baseball simulations. But the
                      game has a very generic feel to it and as an
                      introductory game, I believe Jeff Downey's little
                      gem of a game called The Baseabll Card Game, is
                      a better choice. The Baseabll Card Game offers
                      more depth, but the play mechanics remain simple,
                      using 1 page of front and back charts and a deck of
                      playing cards to obtain results. Each player has
                      more of a individual feel to them in this game
                      as well , as batters are rated for hitting quality,
                      eye ,and power; while pitchers are rated for overall
                      quality and control. Defensive quality of individual
                      players are also considered, as well as stealing,
                      bunting, and hit and run. Rating individual players
                      does take more time in The Baseabll Card Game but
                      once those ratings are established, the game it is
                      a blast to play. I think it offers a more rewarding
                      experience as an introductory baseball game than
                      Throwback Baseball.

                      But Throwback baseball is not without merit.
                      It is simpler to play than The Baseabll Card Game,
                      which will appeal to a younger or less sophisticated
                      baseball audience, the steal system is quite
                      innovative, it will provide you with an enjoyable
                      diversion, and I will probably figure something out
                      in what to do with the various numbered keys.
                      I may incorporate them into my play of Baseball
                      Strategy or figure out another system to determine
                      when the various keys should be utilized. Perhaps
                      the greatest thing I could develop in this game
                      is to determine when a numbered key will be used,
                      not based on a comparison between pitcher and
                      batter, but on some other criteria. Maybe I
                      could develop a pitcher/batter interface, similar
                      to Baseabll Strategy, that will determine what key
                      will be used. I may also tweak the keys a bit,
                      and with those two changes, Throwback Baseabll
                      may provide a more enjoyable experience. For
                      those of you who have purchased this game, tell me
                      what you think, and be willing to share some ideas
                      on how you can improve the use of the result keys
                      or perhaps change the actual keys themselves to
                      inject more of an individual character into the game.

                      Ken Sell

                      --- In tabletopbaseball@ yahoogroups. com, Thomas Fuhs <2ampfuhs@.. .> wrote:
                      >
                      > I looked it up on www.boardgamegeek. com. No hits.
                      >
                      > On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 7:20 AM, Rickert <rickert46015@ ...> wrote:
                      >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Has anyone played throwback Baseball 1.0. I'm looking for some opinions
                      > > before I purchase. Thanks.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >

                    • dwight braid
                      I played Xtra Innings a few times and I have to disagree...If you take the time to learn the rules it really plays out like a real baseball game - you really
                      Message 10 of 27 , Jan 20, 2010
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I played Xtra Innings a few times and I have to disagree...If you take the time to learn the rules it really plays out like a real baseball game - you really have to mange every pitch and play...what makes it different is the fact that there are no dice and it is not a game of luck...If you are in to stats and stuff, then it is not the game for you, but if you like the pure strategy of baseball, this game, with a very different pitching sequence where you actually have to try and figure out the pitch your opponent will choose and match up against it - is really a blast...check out the reviews at boardgamegeek.com and you will see I am not alone in my thinking. Play ball!

                        --- On Tue, 1/19/10, O <noiro@...> wrote:

                        From: O <noiro@...>
                        Subject: Re: throwback baseball 1.0
                        To: tabletopbaseball@yahoogroups.com
                        Received: Tuesday, January 19, 2010, 9:57 PM

                         

                        The really nice thing about this group is that I found out "I am not the only one".  I was sometimes afraid to tell people what one of my favorite past times was because "tabletop baseball??? rolling dice??? playing cards???" was always a typical response from someone.  I admit I have played nearly every tabletop/computer baseball game I could buy for the last 45 years.  There is a game now called Xtra Innings (not so good, imho) but many moons ago there was Extra Innings which was a stat based game. When I bought it, It had every major league team with a different name Kansas City Crowns and all of the players stats but "No Names"  where the name was it was blank.  That was to get around paying for the rights. That game also sucked but at the time, I thought it was fair.  So many games have come along in the past 10 years, that I have had a hard time finding some of the games.  Most of them are exactly worth what you pay for it.  You pay $10 for a game, what can you expect from it?? Maybe some fun, but not actually any realism (I am talking IF they have actual players).  Many games are as we all know, just thrown out there with the hope maybe someone can make a few bucks.  I am also sure all of us have played some variation of a dice baseball game.  When I was a kid, it didn't bother me that Nellie Fox led our 30 game league with 8 home runs or that Eddie Rakow had an ERA under 2.00.  It was the fun and experience of playing with your friends.  Well, I have rambled long enough, I just wanted to say "Thanks" to all of you so that "I am not the only one" anymore.
                        O

                        Ken wrote:

                         

                        I wrote a review of this game on another Yahoo! baseball game forum (baseballgames) back in March of last year. Fortunately, I was able to locate and retrieve the post and reproduce the review here. There were other posts on this topic so perhaps one can go to that forum and read the other posts. There have already been alternatives and enhancements to the game suggested. Hope this brief review helps.

                        REVIEW

                        I am a sucker for baseball games....and
                        especially new ones. So when I saw the ad for
                        this game on one of the sports forum's I frequent,
                        I couldn't resist. I visited the website but it
                        only provided me with scant information. Even
                        the video provided, which is available on both
                        U-Ttube and at the website, did not provide me
                        with enough information. I was especially
                        interested in the play mechanics and how the
                        game results are obtained. I wrote to the
                        developers, aberdeentradingco. com, and they
                        quickly responded to my questions. Although
                        I would have liked more information, I was still
                        intrigued enough to buy the game and, afterall,
                        I could not resist the temptation. So I
                        plopped down my $8.95 and took the plunge.

                        The game is available only as a PDF download.
                        It arrived in my e-mail box about three hours
                        after purchase. Included in the file are the
                        game's instructions (2 pages), "player cards"
                        (these cards are not like player cards you
                        may be familiar with. They do not contain
                        specific player statistics or characterisitics.
                        They do not even contain play results. They
                        are cards that enable you to create your own
                        players by writing in a player's name and a
                        number determining their overall quality.
                        Quality is determined by 1 -3 for pitchers
                        and 4-6 for hitters. The combination of these
                        two numbers will determine which results key
                        you read the play outcome from. But we will
                        talk more about that later when we get into
                        the game's mechanics.), outcome keys which
                        constitutes the core of the game, steal cards,
                        a 8" x 11" baseball diamond to play the game on,
                        scoresheets, and 2 examples of how the scoresheets
                        can be used. These scoresheets are entirely
                        optional and not essential to playing the game.

                        All the components are easy to read and well done.
                        The result keys, which are central to the game,
                        are easily copied onto 2 pages front and back.
                        There are 5 result keys in the game with 2 keys
                        being put on a single page. The steal cards also
                        constitute 2 pages and the scorecards, if you
                        decide to use them, one. Player cards make up
                        2 additional pages with 10 players per page.
                        To make up two teams to play a game, you will
                        go through four pages, preferably of card stock
                        quality. Since this is a PDF download, you will
                        have to print out all the components yourself.
                        So let's talk about how the game plays...

                        To begin, this is definitely an introductory
                        game. The play dynamics are quite simple, even
                        in the "advanced" version. In the basic version,
                        you roll 3D6, add up the numbers, consult the
                        correct key, access the number rolled , and you
                        obtain your result. Play outcomes on these keys
                        are numbered from 3 to 18 and include things
                        such as hits, strikeouts, errors, fly outs,
                        groundouts, walks, double plays, you know,
                        anything that can happen in a baseball game.
                        Remember that 2 keys are printed per page front
                        and back, for a total of 5 keys. The other page
                        constains a bunt key and a steal key. There are
                        slight variations of the outcomes on each of the
                        5 primary result keys but the different keys are
                        only used in the "advanced" version. Extra-base
                        hits are usually triples of a certain roll
                        (4-4-4 for example).

                        In the advanced version, your individual players
                        are rated and that number is put on the player
                        card. Ratings are not individual player
                        characteristics but are a single global rating.
                        Pitchers are rated from 1-3, with one being good
                        and three being poor. Batters are rated 4-6,
                        with four being good and six being poor. You
                        then compare these two numbers to arrive at a
                        single number, by subtracting the pitcher rating
                        from the batter rating. The number obtained
                        determines which numbered key you read the
                        play result from. It's that simple. Compare
                        pitcher and batter player ratings which determines
                        what numbered key you read the result from, roll
                        the 3D6, find your result on that key, and move
                        any base runners or record any outs. Although
                        the website says games will usually take about
                        an hour or so to play, you could easily get one
                        done in less than 30 minutes. Because you only
                        consult one key for a result, game play moves
                        quickly.

                        The keys do appear to be accurate, and as stated,
                        reflect most plays that can occur in a baseball
                        game. But because the results are generic, you
                        lose the individual feel for players and how
                        their characteristics may impact a game. For
                        example, each player has an equal chance of
                        hitting a home run. All dice rolls of 18 on all
                        five of the keys are home runs. Doesn't matter
                        if it is a light hitting shortstop, a pitcher,
                        or a power hitting first baseman. A home run is
                        a home run is a home run, if the number rolled
                        is 18. This is similar for other hits as well.
                        A 14 is a single and 4-4-4 is a double. Again,
                        individual characteristics or attributes of
                        players are not considered.

                        The same generic feel applies to bunting and
                        stealing. To bunt, you simply roll 1D6 and consult
                        the bunt key. This key applies to all players.
                        Stealing is perhaps the most innovative part of
                        this game. You use different colored cards to
                        steal, with each player's speed being rated
                        according to three colors. Fast players have
                        green cards, medium speed players yellow cards,
                        and slow players, red. Two cards are blue and
                        considered wild. If the card drawn matches the
                        color of the your player stealing, then he is safe.
                        Otherwise, he is out. I found this whole approach
                        to stealing quite innovative and will likely import
                        this system over to my playing of Pizza Box Baseball.
                        This innovative stealing system is probably the
                        strongest suit of this game. Overall, this game
                        definitely has a "generic feel" to it. But that
                        does not mean it is not fun and shouldn't be
                        considered.

                        If you are looking for a quick diversion and a
                        game absent of complex rules and mechanics, then
                        this is it. The introduction price is also right
                        at $8.95. The price listed on the website is $9.95
                        but they offer a special "promo" price if you
                        input the words "web" or "tube" when purchasing.
                        This entitles you to 10% off.

                        This game will also be an excellent way to
                        introduce videogame addicted kids to the joys of
                        tabletop sports gaming. It is a very simple game
                        to learn, simple to play , and probably can be
                        understood by players as young as 7, as long as
                        they understand the rules of baseball. But if
                        you're looking for something a bit more in-depth,
                        more realistic, or more complex, then look elsewhere.

                        To conclude, this is definitely an introductory
                        game, and could serve as the first rung in a ladder
                        to more complex baseball simulations. But the
                        game has a very generic feel to it and as an
                        introductory game, I believe Jeff Downey's little
                        gem of a game called The Baseabll Card Game, is
                        a better choice. The Baseabll Card Game offers
                        more depth, but the play mechanics remain simple,
                        using 1 page of front and back charts and a deck of
                        playing cards to obtain results. Each player has
                        more of a individual feel to them in this game
                        as well , as batters are rated for hitting quality,
                        eye ,and power; while pitchers are rated for overall
                        quality and control. Defensive quality of individual
                        players are also considered, as well as stealing,
                        bunting, and hit and run. Rating individual players
                        does take more time in The Baseabll Card Game but
                        once those ratings are established, the game it is
                        a blast to play. I think it offers a more rewarding
                        experience as an introductory baseball game than
                        Throwback Baseball.

                        But Throwback baseball is not without merit.
                        It is simpler to play than The Baseabll Card Game,
                        which will appeal to a younger or less sophisticated
                        baseball audience, the steal system is quite
                        innovative, it will provide you with an enjoyable
                        diversion, and I will probably figure something out
                        in what to do with the various numbered keys.
                        I may incorporate them into my play of Baseball
                        Strategy or figure out another system to determine
                        when the various keys should be utilized. Perhaps
                        the greatest thing I could develop in this game
                        is to determine when a numbered key will be used,
                        not based on a comparison between pitcher and
                        batter, but on some other criteria. Maybe I
                        could develop a pitcher/batter interface, similar
                        to Baseabll Strategy, that will determine what key
                        will be used. I may also tweak the keys a bit,
                        and with those two changes, Throwback Baseabll
                        may provide a more enjoyable experience. For
                        those of you who have purchased this game, tell me
                        what you think, and be willing to share some ideas
                        on how you can improve the use of the result keys
                        or perhaps change the actual keys themselves to
                        inject more of an individual character into the game.

                        Ken Sell

                        --- In tabletopbaseball@ yahoogroups. com, Thomas Fuhs <2ampfuhs@.. .> wrote:
                        >
                        > I looked it up on www.boardgamegeek. com. No hits.
                        >
                        > On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 7:20 AM, Rickert <rickert46015@ ...> wrote:
                        >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Has anyone played throwback Baseball 1.0. I'm looking for some opinions
                        > > before I purchase. Thanks.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >



                        The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free!
                      • Chris Shockey
                        Although I do enjoy APBA, Strat, and Statis-Pro (among others), I feel that Replay Baseball gives the most bang for your buck. The game is statistically
                        Message 11 of 27 , Jan 20, 2010
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Although I do enjoy APBA, Strat, and Statis-Pro (among others), I feel
                          that Replay Baseball gives the most bang for your buck. The game is
                          statistically accurate, easy to learn and teach, and most important of
                          all, fun! And the new computer game, along with it's fan-created
                          additions and upgrades, re-creates it's tabletop counterpart amazingly
                          well.

                          Sent from my iPhone

                          On Jan 19, 2010, at 9:57 PM, O <noiro@...> wrote:

                          >
                        • Chris Shockey
                          Continuing my earlier post: my phone unexpectedly sent before I finished... The startup price range is about the same as Strat and APBA, but many of the
                          Message 12 of 27 , Jan 20, 2010
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Continuing my earlier post: my phone unexpectedly sent before I finished...

                            The startup price range is about the same as Strat and APBA, but many of the seasons can be purchased in several different formats depending on the version of Replay you own: Classic or the new expanded version. You can also buy most of the seasons as inexpensive downloads you can print yourself.

                            I haven't played their basketball game, but their football game, Second Season Football is also very well-made, and all of their games have many fan-created teams and additions on the Replay Sports website that are free for the download!

                            No hockey game as yet; but there's still hope!

                            Chris Shockey

                            Sent from my iPhone

                            On Jan 19, 2010, at 9:57 PM, O <noiro@...> wrote:

                             

                            The really nice thing about this group is that I found out "I am not the only one".  I was sometimes afraid to tell people what one of my favorite past times was because "tabletop baseball??? rolling dice??? playing cards???" was always a typical response from someone.  I admit I have played nearly every tabletop/computer baseball game I could buy for the last 45 years.  There is a game now called Xtra Innings (not so good, imho) but many moons ago there was Extra Innings which was a stat based game. When I bought it, It had every major league team with a different name Kansas City Crowns and all of the players stats but "No Names"  where the name was it was blank.  That was to get around paying for the rights. That game also sucked but at the time, I thought it was fair.  So many games have come along in the past 10 years, that I have had a hard time finding some of the games.  Most of them are exactly worth what you pay for it.  You pay $10 for a game, what can you expect from it?? Maybe some fun, but not actually any realism (I am talking IF they have actual players).  Many games are as we all know, just thrown out there with the hope maybe someone can make a few bucks.  I am also sure all of us have played some variation of a dice baseball game.  When I was a kid, it didn't bother me that Nellie Fox led our 30 game league with 8 home runs or that Eddie Rakow had an ERA under 2.00.  It was the fun and experience of playing with your friends.  Well, I have rambled long enough, I just wanted to say "Thanks" to all of you so that "I am not the only one" anymore.
                            O

                            Ken wrote:

                             

                            I wrote a review of this game on another Yahoo! baseball game forum (baseballgames) back in March of last year. Fortunately, I was able to locate and retrieve the post and reproduce the review here. There were other posts on this topic so perhaps one can go to that forum and read the other posts. There have already been alternatives and enhancements to the game suggested. Hope this brief review helps.

                            REVIEW

                            I am a sucker for baseball games...and
                            especially new ones. So when I saw the ad for
                            this game on one of the sports forum's I frequent,
                            I couldn't resist. I visited the website but it
                            only provided me with scant information. Even
                            the video provided, which is available on both
                            U-Ttube and at the website, did not provide me
                            with enough information. I was especially
                            interested in the play mechanics and how the
                            game results are obtained. I wrote to the
                            developers, aberdeentradingco. com, and they
                            quickly responded to my questions. Although
                            I would have liked more information, I was still
                            intrigued enough to buy the game and, afterall,
                            I could not resist the temptation. So I
                            plopped down my $8.95 and took the plunge.

                            The game is available only as a PDF download.
                            It arrived in my e-mail box about three hours
                            after purchase. Included in the file are the
                            game's instructions (2 pages), "player cards"
                            (these cards are not like player cards you
                            may be familiar with. They do not contain
                            specific player statistics or characterisitics.
                            They do not even contain play results. They
                            are cards that enable you to create your own
                            players by writing in a player's name and a
                            number determining their overall quality.
                            Quality is determined by 1 -3 for pitchers
                            and 4-6 for hitters. The combination of these
                            two numbers will determine which results key
                            you read the play outcome from. But we will
                            talk more about that later when we get into
                            the game's mechanics.), outcome keys which
                            constitutes the core of the game, steal cards,
                            a 8" x 11" baseball diamond to play the game on,
                            scoresheets, and 2 examples of how the scoresheets
                            can be used. These scoresheets are entirely
                            optional and not essential to playing the game.

                            All the components are easy to read and well done.
                            The result keys, which are central to the game,
                            are easily copied onto 2 pages front and back.
                            There are 5 result keys in the game with 2 keys
                            being put on a single page. The steal cards also
                            constitute 2 pages and the scorecards, if you
                            decide to use them, one. Player cards make up
                            2 additional pages with 10 players per page.
                            To make up two teams to play a game, you will
                            go through four pages, preferably of card stock
                            quality. Since this is a PDF download, you will
                            have to print out all the components yourself.
                            So let's talk about how the game plays...

                            To begin, this is definitely an introductory
                            game. The play dynamics are quite simple, even
                            in the "advanced" version. In the basic version,
                            you roll 3D6, add up the numbers, consult the
                            correct key, access the number rolled , and you
                            obtain your result. Play outcomes on these keys
                            are numbered from 3 to 18 and include things
                            such as hits, strikeouts, errors, fly outs,
                            groundouts, walks, double plays, you know,
                            anything that can happen in a baseball game.
                            Remember that 2 keys are printed per page front
                            and back, for a total of 5 keys. The other page
                            constains a bunt key and a steal key. There are
                            slight variations of the outcomes on each of the
                            5 primary result keys but the different keys are
                            only used in the "advanced" version. Extra-base
                            hits are usually triples of a certain roll
                            (4-4-4 for example).

                            In the advanced version, your individual players
                            are rated and that number is put on the player
                            card. Ratings are not individual player
                            characteristics but are a single global rating.
                            Pitchers are rated from 1-3, with one being good
                            and three being poor. Batters are rated 4-6,
                            with four being good and six being poor. You
                            then compare these two numbers to arrive at a
                            single number, by subtracting the pitcher rating
                            from the batter rating. The number obtained
                            determines which numbered key you read the
                            play result from. It's that simple. Compare
                            pitcher and batter player ratings which determines
                            what numbered key you read the result from, roll
                            the 3D6, find your result on that key, and move
                            any base runners or record any outs. Although
                            the website says games will usually take about
                            an hour or so to play, you could easily get one
                            done in less than 30 minutes. Because you only
                            consult one key for a result, game play moves
                            quickly.

                            The keys do appear to be accurate, and as stated,
                            reflect most plays that can occur in a baseball
                            game. But because the results are generic, you
                            lose the individual feel for players and how
                            their characteristics may impact a game. For
                            example, each player has an equal chance of
                            hitting a home run. All dice rolls of 18 on all
                            five of the keys are home runs. Doesn't matter
                            if it is a light hitting shortstop, a pitcher,
                            or a power hitting first baseman. A home run is
                            a home run is a home run, if the number rolled
                            is 18. This is similar for other hits as well.
                            A 14 is a single and 4-4-4 is a double. Again,
                            individual characteristics or attributes of
                            players are not considered.

                            The same generic feel applies to bunting and
                            stealing. To bunt, you simply roll 1D6 and consult
                            the bunt key. This key applies to all players.
                            Stealing is perhaps the most innovative part of
                            this game. You use different colored cards to
                            steal, with each player's speed being rated
                            according to three colors. Fast players have
                            green cards, medium speed players yellow cards,
                            and slow players, red. Two cards are blue and
                            considered wild. If the card drawn matches the
                            color of the your player stealing, then he is safe.
                            Otherwise, he is out. I found this whole approach
                            to stealing quite innovative and will likely import
                            this system over to my playing of Pizza Box Baseball.
                            This innovative stealing system is probably the
                            strongest suit of this game. Overall, this game
                            definitely has a "generic feel" to it. But that
                            does not mean it is not fun and shouldn't be
                            considered.

                            If you are looking for a quick diversion and a
                            game absent of complex rules and mechanics, then
                            this is it. The introduction price is also right
                            at $8.95. The price listed on the website is $9.95
                            but they offer a special "promo" price if you
                            input the words "web" or "tube" when purchasing.
                            This entitles you to 10% off.

                            This game will also be an excellent way to
                            introduce videogame addicted kids to the joys of
                            tabletop sports gaming. It is a very simple game
                            to learn, simple to play , and probably can be
                            understood by players as young as 7, as long as
                            they understand the rules of baseball. But if
                            you're looking for something a bit more in-depth,
                            more realistic, or more complex, then look elsewhere.

                            To conclude, this is definitely an introductory
                            game, and could serve as the first rung in a ladder
                            to more complex baseball simulations. But the
                            game has a very generic feel to it and as an
                            introductory game, I believe Jeff Downey's little
                            gem of a game called The Baseabll Card Game, is
                            a better choice. The Baseabll Card Game offers
                            more depth, but the play mechanics remain simple,
                            using 1 page of front and back charts and a deck of
                            playing cards to obtain results. Each player has
                            more of a individual feel to them in this game
                            as well , as batters are rated for hitting quality,
                            eye ,and power; while pitchers are rated for overall
                            quality and control. Defensive quality of individual
                            players are also considered, as well as stealing,
                            bunting, and hit and run. Rating individual players
                            does take more time in The Baseabll Card Game but
                            once those ratings are established, the game it is
                            a blast to play. I think it offers a more rewarding
                            experience as an introductory baseball game than
                            Throwback Baseball.

                            But Throwback baseball is not without merit.
                            It is simpler to play than The Baseabll Card Game,
                            which will appeal to a younger or less sophisticated
                            baseball audience, the steal system is quite
                            innovative, it will provide you with an enjoyable
                            diversion, and I will probably figure something out
                            in what to do with the various numbered keys.
                            I may incorporate them into my play of Baseball
                            Strategy or figure out another system to determine
                            when the various keys should be utilized. Perhaps
                            the greatest thing I could develop in this game
                            is to determine when a numbered key will be used,
                            not based on a comparison between pitcher and
                            batter, but on some other criteria. Maybe I
                            could develop a pitcher/batter interface, similar
                            to Baseabll Strategy, that will determine what key
                            will be used. I may also tweak the keys a bit,
                            and with those two changes, Throwback Baseabll
                            may provide a more enjoyable experience. For
                            those of you who have purchased this game, tell me
                            what you think, and be willing to share some ideas
                            on how you can improve the use of the result keys
                            or perhaps change the actual keys themselves to
                            inject more of an individual character into the game.

                            Ken Sell

                            --- In tabletopbaseball@ yahoogroups. com, Thomas Fuhs <2ampfuhs@.. .> wrote:
                            >
                            > I looked it up on www.boardgamegeek. com. No hits.
                            >
                            > On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 7:20 AM, Rickert <rickert46015@ ...> wrote:
                            >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Has anyone played throwback Baseball 1.0. I'm looking for some opinions
                            > > before I purchase. Thanks.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >

                          • jp aze
                            Has anyone really found a game better than the computer version of statis-pro?  I really enjoy it and cant imagine there would be a more realistic game. (dice
                            Message 13 of 27 , Jan 20, 2010
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Has anyone really found a game better than the computer version of statis-pro?  I really enjoy it and cant imagine there would be a more realistic game. (dice games are not realistic). 


                              From: O <noiro@...>
                              To: tabletopbaseball@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Tue, January 19, 2010 9:57:23 PM
                              Subject: Re: throwback baseball 1.0

                               

                              The really nice thing about this group is that I found out "I am not the only one".  I was sometimes afraid to tell people what one of my favorite past times was because "tabletop baseball??? rolling dice??? playing cards???" was always a typical response from someone.  I admit I have played nearly every tabletop/computer baseball game I could buy for the last 45 years.  There is a game now called Xtra Innings (not so good, imho) but many moons ago there was Extra Innings which was a stat based game. When I bought it, It had every major league team with a different name Kansas City Crowns and all of the players stats but "No Names"  where the name was it was blank.  That was to get around paying for the rights. That game also sucked but at the time, I thought it was fair.  So many games have come along in the past 10 years, that I have had a hard time finding some of the games.  Most of them are exactly worth what you pay for it.  You pay $10 for a game, what can you expect from it?? Maybe some fun, but not actually any realism (I am talking IF they have actual players).  Many games are as we all know, just thrown out there with the hope maybe someone can make a few bucks.  I am also sure all of us have played some variation of a dice baseball game.  When I was a kid, it didn't bother me that Nellie Fox led our 30 game league with 8 home runs or that Eddie Rakow had an ERA under 2.00.  It was the fun and experience of playing with your friends.  Well, I have rambled long enough, I just wanted to say "Thanks" to all of you so that "I am not the only one" anymore.
                              O

                              Ken wrote:

                               

                              I wrote a review of this game on another Yahoo! baseball game forum (baseballgames) back in March of last year. Fortunately, I was able to locate and retrieve the post and reproduce the review here. There were other posts on this topic so perhaps one can go to that forum and read the other posts. There have already been alternatives and enhancements to the game suggested. Hope this brief review helps.

                              REVIEW

                              I am a sucker for baseball games...and
                              especially new ones. So when I saw the ad for
                              this game on one of the sports forum's I frequent,
                              I couldn't resist. I visited the website but it
                              only provided me with scant information. Even
                              the video provided, which is available on both
                              U-Ttube and at the website, did not provide me
                              with enough information. I was especially
                              interested in the play mechanics and how the
                              game results are obtained. I wrote to the
                              developers, aberdeentradingco. com, and they
                              quickly responded to my questions. Although
                              I would have liked more information, I was still
                              intrigued enough to buy the game and, afterall,
                              I could not resist the temptation. So I
                              plopped down my $8.95 and took the plunge.

                              The game is available only as a PDF download.
                              It arrived in my e-mail box about three hours
                              after purchase. Included in the file are the
                              game's instructions (2 pages), "player cards"
                              (these cards are not like player cards you
                              may be familiar with. They do not contain
                              specific player statistics or characterisitics.
                              They do not even contain play results. They
                              are cards that enable you to create your own
                              players by writing in a player's name and a
                              number determining their overall quality.
                              Quality is determined by 1 -3 for pitchers
                              and 4-6 for hitters. The combination of these
                              two numbers will determine which results key
                              you read the play outcome from. But we will
                              talk more about that later when we get into
                              the game's mechanics.), outcome keys which
                              constitutes the core of the game, steal cards,
                              a 8" x 11" baseball diamond to play the game on,
                              scoresheets, and 2 examples of how the scoresheets
                              can be used. These scoresheets are entirely
                              optional and not essential to playing the game.

                              All the components are easy to read and well done.
                              The result keys, which are central to the game,
                              are easily copied onto 2 pages front and back.
                              There are 5 result keys in the game with 2 keys
                              being put on a single page. The steal cards also
                              constitute 2 pages and the scorecards, if you
                              decide to use them, one. Player cards make up
                              2 additional pages with 10 players per page.
                              To make up two teams to play a game, you will
                              go through four pages, preferably of card stock
                              quality. Since this is a PDF download, you will
                              have to print out all the components yourself.
                              So let's talk about how the game plays...

                              To begin, this is definitely an introductory
                              game. The play dynamics are quite simple, even
                              in the "advanced" version. In the basic version,
                              you roll 3D6, add up the numbers, consult the
                              correct key, access the number rolled , and you
                              obtain your result. Play outcomes on these keys
                              are numbered from 3 to 18 and include things
                              such as hits, strikeouts, errors, fly outs,
                              groundouts, walks, double plays, you know,
                              anything that can happen in a baseball game.
                              Remember that 2 keys are printed per page front
                              and back, for a total of 5 keys. The other page
                              constains a bunt key and a steal key. There are
                              slight variations of the outcomes on each of the
                              5 primary result keys but the different keys are
                              only used in the "advanced" version. Extra-base
                              hits are usually triples of a certain roll
                              (4-4-4 for example).

                              In the advanced version, your individual players
                              are rated and that number is put on the player
                              card. Ratings are not individual player
                              characteristics but are a single global rating.
                              Pitchers are rated from 1-3, with one being good
                              and three being poor. Batters are rated 4-6,
                              with four being good and six being poor. You
                              then compare these two numbers to arrive at a
                              single number, by subtracting the pitcher rating
                              from the batter rating. The number obtained
                              determines which numbered key you read the
                              play result from. It's that simple. Compare
                              pitcher and batter player ratings which determines
                              what numbered key you read the result from, roll
                              the 3D6, find your result on that key, and move
                              any base runners or record any outs. Although
                              the website says games will usually take about
                              an hour or so to play, you could easily get one
                              done in less than 30 minutes. Because you only
                              consult one key for a result, game play moves
                              quickly.

                              The keys do appear to be accurate, and as stated,
                              reflect most plays that can occur in a baseball
                              game. But because the results are generic, you
                              lose the individual feel for players and how
                              their characteristics may impact a game. For
                              example, each player has an equal chance of
                              hitting a home run. All dice rolls of 18 on all
                              five of the keys are home runs. Doesn't matter
                              if it is a light hitting shortstop, a pitcher,
                              or a power hitting first baseman. A home run is
                              a home run is a home run, if the number rolled
                              is 18. This is similar for other hits as well.
                              A 14 is a single and 4-4-4 is a double. Again,
                              individual characteristics or attributes of
                              players are not considered.

                              The same generic feel applies to bunting and
                              stealing. To bunt, you simply roll 1D6 and consult
                              the bunt key. This key applies to all players.
                              Stealing is perhaps the most innovative part of
                              this game. You use different colored cards to
                              steal, with each player's speed being rated
                              according to three colors. Fast players have
                              green cards, medium speed players yellow cards,
                              and slow players, red. Two cards are blue and
                              considered wild. If the card drawn matches the
                              color of the your player stealing, then he is safe.
                              Otherwise, he is out. I found this whole approach
                              to stealing quite innovative and will likely import
                              this system over to my playing of Pizza Box Baseball.
                              This innovative stealing system is probably the
                              strongest suit of this game. Overall, this game
                              definitely has a "generic feel" to it. But that
                              does not mean it is not fun and shouldn't be
                              considered.

                              If you are looking for a quick diversion and a
                              game absent of complex rules and mechanics, then
                              this is it. The introduction price is also right
                              at $8.95. The price listed on the website is $9.95
                              but they offer a special "promo" price if you
                              input the words "web" or "tube" when purchasing.
                              This entitles you to 10% off.

                              This game will also be an excellent way to
                              introduce videogame addicted kids to the joys of
                              tabletop sports gaming. It is a very simple game
                              to learn, simple to play , and probably can be
                              understood by players as young as 7, as long as
                              they understand the rules of baseball. But if
                              you're looking for something a bit more in-depth,
                              more realistic, or more complex, then look elsewhere.

                              To conclude, this is definitely an introductory
                              game, and could serve as the first rung in a ladder
                              to more complex baseball simulations. But the
                              game has a very generic feel to it and as an
                              introductory game, I believe Jeff Downey's little
                              gem of a game called The Baseabll Card Game, is
                              a better choice. The Baseabll Card Game offers
                              more depth, but the play mechanics remain simple,
                              using 1 page of front and back charts and a deck of
                              playing cards to obtain results. Each player has
                              more of a individual feel to them in this game
                              as well , as batters are rated for hitting quality,
                              eye ,and power; while pitchers are rated for overall
                              quality and control. Defensive quality of individual
                              players are also considered, as well as stealing,
                              bunting, and hit and run. Rating individual players
                              does take more time in The Baseabll Card Game but
                              once those ratings are established, the game it is
                              a blast to play. I think it offers a more rewarding
                              experience as an introductory baseball game than
                              Throwback Baseball.

                              But Throwback baseball is not without merit.
                              It is simpler to play than The Baseabll Card Game,
                              which will appeal to a younger or less sophisticated
                              baseball audience, the steal system is quite
                              innovative, it will provide you with an enjoyable
                              diversion, and I will probably figure something out
                              in what to do with the various numbered keys.
                              I may incorporate them into my play of Baseball
                              Strategy or figure out another system to determine
                              when the various keys should be utilized. Perhaps
                              the greatest thing I could develop in this game
                              is to determine when a numbered key will be used,
                              not based on a comparison between pitcher and
                              batter, but on some other criteria. Maybe I
                              could develop a pitcher/batter interface, similar
                              to Baseabll Strategy, that will determine what key
                              will be used. I may also tweak the keys a bit,
                              and with those two changes, Throwback Baseabll
                              may provide a more enjoyable experience. For
                              those of you who have purchased this game, tell me
                              what you think, and be willing to share some ideas
                              on how you can improve the use of the result keys
                              or perhaps change the actual keys themselves to
                              inject more of an individual character into the game.

                              Ken Sell

                              --- In tabletopbaseball@ yahoogroups. com, Thomas Fuhs <2ampfuhs@.. .> wrote:
                              >
                              > I looked it up on www.boardgamegeek. com. No hits.
                              >
                              > On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 7:20 AM, Rickert <rickert46015@ ...> wrote:
                              >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Has anyone played throwback Baseball 1.0. I'm looking for some opinions
                              > > before I purchase. Thanks.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >


                            • Chris Hartjes
                              ... (Note: I am the commissioner of the league that creates and uses the IBL game) So how is a computer simulation game more accurate than a dice game like
                              Message 14 of 27 , Jan 20, 2010
                              • 0 Attachment
                                On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 8:14 PM, jp aze <jpfl28@...> wrote:
                                 

                                Has anyone really found a game better than the computer version of statis-pro?  I really enjoy it and cant imagine there would be a more realistic game. (dice games are not realistic). 


                                (Note: I am the commissioner of the league that creates and uses the IBL game)

                                So how is a computer simulation game more accurate than a dice game like Statis-Pro or the IBL game?  Aren't they a really the same thing, just one is on the computer and the other is on the tabletop?

                                Because they are really the same thing:  a statistical model used to simulate real baseball, with random numbers being used to determine outcomes.  It's all math.

                                I played lots and lots of computer simulation games and have found them to be no different in terms of accuracy or realism than the high-end-for-accuracy tabletop games.

                                --
                                Chris Hartjes
                                Motto for 2010: Do, or do not.  There is no "try"
                                http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard
                              • O
                                Please take no offense, but you plug this game so hard, so often it is almost like you are one of the people that created the game or at least invested in it
                                Message 15 of 27 , Jan 20, 2010
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Please take no offense, but you plug this game so hard, so often it is almost like you are one of the people that created the game or at least invested in it ;)
                                  O

                                  dwight braid wrote:
                                   

                                  I played Xtra Innings a few times and I have to disagree...If you take the time to learn the rules it really plays out like a real baseball game - you really have to mange every pitch and play...what makes it different is the fact that there are no dice and it is not a game of luck...If you are in to stats and stuff, then it is not the game for you, but if you like the pure strategy of baseball, this game, with a very different pitching sequence where you actually have to try and figure out the pitch your opponent will choose and match up against it - is really a blast...check out the reviews at boardgamegeek. com and you will see I am not alone in my thinking. Play ball!

                                  --- On Tue, 1/19/10, O <noiro@...> wrote:

                                  From: O <noiro@...>
                                  Subject: Re: throwback baseball 1.0
                                  To: tabletopbaseball@ yahoogroups. com
                                  Received: Tuesday, January 19, 2010, 9:57 PM

                                   

                                  The really nice thing about this group is that I found out "I am not the only one".  I was sometimes afraid to tell people what one of my favorite past times was because "tabletop baseball??? rolling dice??? playing cards???" was always a typical response from someone.  I admit I have played nearly every tabletop/computer baseball game I could buy for the last 45 years.  There is a game now called Xtra Innings (not so good, imho) but many moons ago there was Extra Innings which was a stat based game. When I bought it, It had every major league team with a different name Kansas City Crowns and all of the players stats but "No Names"  where the name was it was blank.  That was to get around paying for the rights. That game also sucked but at the time, I thought it was fair.  So many games have come along in the past 10 years, that I have had a hard time finding some of the games.  Most of them are exactly worth what you pay for it.  You pay $10 for a game, what can you expect from it?? Maybe some fun, but not actually any realism (I am talking IF they have actual players).  Many games are as we all know, just thrown out there with the hope maybe someone can make a few bucks.  I am also sure all of us have played some variation of a dice baseball game.  When I was a kid, it didn't bother me that Nellie Fox led our 30 game league with 8 home runs or that Eddie Rakow had an ERA under 2.00.  It was the fun and experience of playing with your friends.  Well, I have rambled long enough, I just wanted to say "Thanks" to all of you so that "I am not the only one" anymore.
                                  O

                                  Ken wrote:

                                   

                                  I wrote a review of this game on another Yahoo! baseball game forum (baseballgames) back in March of last year. Fortunately, I was able to locate and retrieve the post and reproduce the review here. There were other posts on this topic so perhaps one can go to that forum and read the other posts. There have already been alternatives and enhancements to the game suggested. Hope this brief review helps.

                                  REVIEW

                                  I am a sucker for baseball games....and
                                  especially new ones. So when I saw the ad for
                                  this game on one of the sports forum's I frequent,
                                  I couldn't resist. I visited the website but it
                                  only provided me with scant information. Even
                                  the video provided, which is available on both
                                  U-Ttube and at the website, did not provide me
                                  with enough information. I was especially
                                  interested in the play mechanics and how the
                                  game results are obtained. I wrote to the
                                  developers, aberdeentradingco. com, and they
                                  quickly responded to my questions. Although
                                  I would have liked more information, I was still
                                  intrigued enough to buy the game and, afterall,
                                  I could not resist the temptation. So I
                                  plopped down my $8.95 and took the plunge.

                                  The game is available only as a PDF download.
                                  It arrived in my e-mail box about three hours
                                  after purchase. Included in the file are the
                                  game's instructions (2 pages), "player cards"
                                  (these cards are not like player cards you
                                  may be familiar with. They do not contain
                                  specific player statistics or characterisitics.
                                  They do not even contain play results. They
                                  are cards that enable you to create your own
                                  players by writing in a player's name and a
                                  number determining their overall quality.
                                  Quality is determined by 1 -3 for pitchers
                                  and 4-6 for hitters. The combination of these
                                  two numbers will determine which results key
                                  you read the play outcome from. But we will
                                  talk more about that later when we get into
                                  the game's mechanics.), outcome keys which
                                  constitutes the core of the game, steal cards,
                                  a 8" x 11" baseball diamond to play the game on,
                                  scoresheets, and 2 examples of how the scoresheets
                                  can be used. These scoresheets are entirely
                                  optional and not essential to playing the game.

                                  All the components are easy to read and well done.
                                  The result keys, which are central to the game,
                                  are easily copied onto 2 pages front and back.
                                  There are 5 result keys in the game with 2 keys
                                  being put on a single page. The steal cards also
                                  constitute 2 pages and the scorecards, if you
                                  decide to use them, one. Player cards make up
                                  2 additional pages with 10 players per page.
                                  To make up two teams to play a game, you will
                                  go through four pages, preferably of card stock
                                  quality. Since this is a PDF download, you will
                                  have to print out all the components yourself.
                                  So let's talk about how the game plays...

                                  To begin, this is definitely an introductory
                                  game. The play dynamics are quite simple, even
                                  in the "advanced" version. In the basic version,
                                  you roll 3D6, add up the numbers, consult the
                                  correct key, access the number rolled , and you
                                  obtain your result. Play outcomes on these keys
                                  are numbered from 3 to 18 and include things
                                  such as hits, strikeouts, errors, fly outs,
                                  groundouts, walks, double plays, you know,
                                  anything that can happen in a baseball game.
                                  Remember that 2 keys are printed per page front
                                  and back, for a total of 5 keys. The other page
                                  constains a bunt key and a steal key. There are
                                  slight variations of the outcomes on each of the
                                  5 primary result keys but the different keys are
                                  only used in the "advanced" version. Extra-base
                                  hits are usually triples of a certain roll
                                  (4-4-4 for example).

                                  In the advanced version, your individual players
                                  are rated and that number is put on the player
                                  card. Ratings are not individual player
                                  characteristics but are a single global rating.
                                  Pitchers are rated from 1-3, with one being good
                                  and three being poor. Batters are rated 4-6,
                                  with four being good and six being poor. You
                                  then compare these two numbers to arrive at a
                                  single number, by subtracting the pitcher rating
                                  from the batter rating. The number obtained
                                  determines which numbered key you read the
                                  play result from. It's that simple. Compare
                                  pitcher and batter player ratings which determines
                                  what numbered key you read the result from, roll
                                  the 3D6, find your result on that key, and move
                                  any base runners or record any outs. Although
                                  the website says games will usually take about
                                  an hour or so to play, you could easily get one
                                  done in less than 30 minutes. Because you only
                                  consult one key for a result, game play moves
                                  quickly.

                                  The keys do appear to be accurate, and as stated,
                                  reflect most plays that can occur in a baseball
                                  game. But because the results are generic, you
                                  lose the individual feel for players and how
                                  their characteristics may impact a game. For
                                  example, each player has an equal chance of
                                  hitting a home run. All dice rolls of 18 on all
                                  five of the keys are home runs. Doesn't matter
                                  if it is a light hitting shortstop, a pitcher,
                                  or a power hitting first baseman. A home run is
                                  a home run is a home run, if the number rolled
                                  is 18. This is similar for other hits as well.
                                  A 14 is a single and 4-4-4 is a double. Again,
                                  individual characteristics or attributes of
                                  players are not considered.

                                  The same generic feel applies to bunting and
                                  stealing. To bunt, you simply roll 1D6 and consult
                                  the bunt key. This key applies to all players.
                                  Stealing is perhaps the most innovative part of
                                  this game. You use different colored cards to
                                  steal, with each player's speed being rated
                                  according to three colors. Fast players have
                                  green cards, medium speed players yellow cards,
                                  and slow players, red. Two cards are blue and
                                  considered wild. If the card drawn matches the
                                  color of the your player stealing, then he is safe.
                                  Otherwise, he is out. I found this whole approach
                                  to stealing quite innovative and will likely import
                                  this system over to my playing of Pizza Box Baseball.
                                  This innovative stealing system is probably the
                                  strongest suit of this game. Overall, this game
                                  definitely has a "generic feel" to it. But that
                                  does not mean it is not fun and shouldn't be
                                  considered.

                                  If you are looking for a quick diversion and a
                                  game absent of complex rules and mechanics, then
                                  this is it. The introduction price is also right
                                  at $8.95. The price listed on the website is $9.95
                                  but they offer a special "promo" price if you
                                  input the words "web" or "tube" when purchasing.
                                  This entitles you to 10% off.

                                  This game will also be an excellent way to
                                  introduce videogame addicted kids to the joys of
                                  tabletop sports gaming. It is a very simple game
                                  to learn, simple to play , and probably can be
                                  understood by players as young as 7, as long as
                                  they understand the rules of baseball. But if
                                  you're looking for something a bit more in-depth,
                                  more realistic, or more complex, then look elsewhere.

                                  To conclude, this is definitely an introductory
                                  game, and could serve as the first rung in a ladder
                                  to more complex baseball simulations. But the
                                  game has a very generic feel to it and as an
                                  introductory game, I believe Jeff Downey's little
                                  gem of a game called The Baseabll Card Game, is
                                  a better choice. The Baseabll Card Game offers
                                  more depth, but the play mechanics remain simple,
                                  using 1 page of front and back charts and a deck of
                                  playing cards to obtain results. Each player has
                                  more of a individual feel to them in this game
                                  as well , as batters are rated for hitting quality,
                                  eye ,and power; while pitchers are rated for overall
                                  quality and control. Defensive quality of individual
                                  players are also considered, as well as stealing,
                                  bunting, and hit and run. Rating individual players
                                  does take more time in The Baseabll Card Game but
                                  once those ratings are established, the game it is
                                  a blast to play. I think it offers a more rewarding
                                  experience as an introductory baseball game than
                                  Throwback Baseball.

                                  But Throwback baseball is not without merit.
                                  It is simpler to play than The Baseabll Card Game,
                                  which will appeal to a younger or less sophisticated
                                  baseball audience, the steal system is quite
                                  innovative, it will provide you with an enjoyable
                                  diversion, and I will probably figure something out
                                  in what to do with the various numbered keys.
                                  I may incorporate them into my play of Baseball
                                  Strategy or figure out another system to determine
                                  when the various keys should be utilized. Perhaps
                                  the greatest thing I could develop in this game
                                  is to determine when a numbered key will be used,
                                  not based on a comparison between pitcher and
                                  batter, but on some other criteria. Maybe I
                                  could develop a pitcher/batter interface, similar
                                  to Baseabll Strategy, that will determine what key
                                  will be used. I may also tweak the keys a bit,
                                  and with those two changes, Throwback Baseabll
                                  may provide a more enjoyable experience. For
                                  those of you who have purchased this game, tell me
                                  what you think, and be willing to share some ideas
                                  on how you can improve the use of the result keys
                                  or perhaps change the actual keys themselves to
                                  inject more of an individual character into the game.

                                  Ken Sell

                                  --- In tabletopbaseball@ yahoogroups. com, Thomas Fuhs <2ampfuhs@.. .> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I looked it up on www.boardgamegeek. com. No hits.
                                  >
                                  > On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 7:20 AM, Rickert <rickert46015@ ...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Has anyone played throwback Baseball 1.0. I'm looking for some opinions
                                  > > before I purchase. Thanks.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >



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                                • Chris Shockey
                                  I think the biggest benefit of any computer version is faster play due to less bookwork.... Chris Shockey Sent from my iPhone
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Jan 21, 2010
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I think the biggest benefit of any computer version is faster play due to less bookwork....

                                    Chris Shockey

                                    Sent from my iPhone

                                    On Jan 20, 2010, at 9:31 PM, Chris Hartjes <chartjes@...> wrote:

                                     

                                    On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 8:14 PM, jp aze <jpfl28@yahoo. com> wrote:

                                     

                                    Has anyone really found a game better than the computer version of statis-pro?  I really enjoy it and cant imagine there would be a more realistic game. (dice games are not realistic). 


                                    (Note: I am the commissioner of the league that creates and uses the IBL game)

                                    So how is a computer simulation game more accurate than a dice game like Statis-Pro or the IBL game?  Aren't they a really the same thing, just one is on the computer and the other is on the tabletop?

                                    Because they are really the same thing:  a statistical model used to simulate real baseball, with random numbers being used to determine outcomes.  It's all math.

                                    I played lots and lots of computer simulation games and have found them to be no different in terms of accuracy or realism than the high-end-for- accuracy tabletop games.

                                    --
                                    Chris Hartjes
                                    Motto for 2010: Do, or do not.  There is no "try"
                                    http://www.littleha rt.net/atthekeyb oard

                                  • jp aze
                                    I rarely post on any subject, I enjoy reading other posts but certainly do not plug this or any game (all my older post were because I had issues downloading
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Jan 21, 2010
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                                      I rarely post on any subject, I enjoy reading other posts but certainly do not plug this or any game (all my older post were because I had issues downloading etc.), I was asking if there were any comparable games that dont use dice (a personal preference) If I offended because I said dice are unrealistic my apologies  


                                      From: O <noiro@...>
                                      To: tabletopbaseball@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Wed, January 20, 2010 10:57:27 PM
                                      Subject: Re: throwback baseball 1.0

                                       

                                      Please take no offense, but you plug this game so hard, so often it is almost like you are one of the people that created the game or at least invested in it ;)
                                      O

                                      dwight braid wrote:

                                       

                                      I played Xtra Innings a few times and I have to disagree...If you take the time to learn the rules it really plays out like a real baseball game - you really have to mange every pitch and play...what makes it different is the fact that there are no dice and it is not a game of luck...If you are in to stats and stuff, then it is not the game for you, but if you like the pure strategy of baseball, this game, with a very different pitching sequence where you actually have to try and figure out the pitch your opponent will choose and match up against it - is really a blast...check out the reviews at boardgamegeek. com and you will see I am not alone in my thinking. Play ball!

                                      --- On Tue, 1/19/10, O <noiro@...> wrote:

                                      From: O <noiro@...>
                                      Subject: Re: throwback baseball 1.0
                                      To: tabletopbaseball@ yahoogroups. com
                                      Received: Tuesday, January 19, 2010, 9:57 PM

                                       

                                      The really nice thing about this group is that I found out "I am not the only one".  I was sometimes afraid to tell people what one of my favorite past times was because "tabletop baseball??? rolling dice??? playing cards???" was always a typical response from someone.  I admit I have played nearly every tabletop/computer baseball game I could buy for the last 45 years.  There is a game now called Xtra Innings (not so good, imho) but many moons ago there was Extra Innings which was a stat based game. When I bought it, It had every major league team with a different name Kansas City Crowns and all of the players stats but "No Names"  where the name was it was blank.  That was to get around paying for the rights. That game also sucked but at the time, I thought it was fair.  So many games have come along in the past 10 years, that I have had a hard time finding some of the games.  Most of them are exactly worth what you pay for it.  You pay $10 for a game, what can you expect from it?? Maybe some fun, but not actually any realism (I am talking IF they have actual players).  Many games are as we all know, just thrown out there with the hope maybe someone can make a few bucks.  I am also sure all of us have played some variation of a dice baseball game.  When I was a kid, it didn't bother me that Nellie Fox led our 30 game league with 8 home runs or that Eddie Rakow had an ERA under 2.00.  It was the fun and experience of playing with your friends.  Well, I have rambled long enough, I just wanted to say "Thanks" to all of you so that "I am not the only one" anymore.
                                      O

                                      Ken wrote:

                                       

                                      I wrote a review of this game on another Yahoo! baseball game forum (baseballgames) back in March of last year. Fortunately, I was able to locate and retrieve the post and reproduce the review here. There were other posts on this topic so perhaps one can go to that forum and read the other posts. There have already been alternatives and enhancements to the game suggested. Hope this brief review helps.

                                      REVIEW

                                      I am a sucker for baseball games....and
                                      especially new ones. So when I saw the ad for
                                      this game on one of the sports forum's I frequent,
                                      I couldn't resist. I visited the website but it
                                      only provided me with scant information. Even
                                      the video provided, which is available on both
                                      U-Ttube and at the website, did not provide me
                                      with enough information. I was especially
                                      interested in the play mechanics and how the
                                      game results are obtained. I wrote to the
                                      developers, aberdeentradingco. com, and they
                                      quickly responded to my questions. Although
                                      I would have liked more information, I was still
                                      intrigued enough to buy the game and, afterall,
                                      I could not resist the temptation. So I
                                      plopped down my $8.95 and took the plunge.

                                      The game is available only as a PDF download.
                                      It arrived in my e-mail box about three hours
                                      after purchase. Included in the file are the
                                      game's instructions (2 pages), "player cards"
                                      (these cards are not like player cards you
                                      may be familiar with. They do not contain
                                      specific player statistics or characterisitics.
                                      They do not even contain play results. They
                                      are cards that enable you to create your own
                                      players by writing in a player's name and a
                                      number determining their overall quality.
                                      Quality is determined by 1 -3 for pitchers
                                      and 4-6 for hitters. The combination of these
                                      two numbers will determine which results key
                                      you read the play outcome from. But we will
                                      talk more about that later when we get into
                                      the game's mechanics.), outcome keys which
                                      constitutes the core of the game, steal cards,
                                      a 8" x 11" baseball diamond to play the game on,
                                      scoresheets, and 2 examples of how the scoresheets
                                      can be used. These scoresheets are entirely
                                      optional and not essential to playing the game.

                                      All the components are easy to read and well done.
                                      The result keys, which are central to the game,
                                      are easily copied onto 2 pages front and back.
                                      There are 5 result keys in the game with 2 keys
                                      being put on a single page. The steal cards also
                                      constitute 2 pages and the scorecards, if you
                                      decide to use them, one. Player cards make up
                                      2 additional pages with 10 players per page.
                                      To make up two teams to play a game, you will
                                      go through four pages, preferably of card stock
                                      quality. Since this is a PDF download, you will
                                      have to print out all the components yourself.
                                      So let's talk about how the game plays...

                                      To begin, this is definitely an introductory
                                      game. The play dynamics are quite simple, even
                                      in the "advanced" version. In the basic version,
                                      you roll 3D6, add up the numbers, consult the
                                      correct key, access the number rolled , and you
                                      obtain your result. Play outcomes on these keys
                                      are numbered from 3 to 18 and include things
                                      such as hits, strikeouts, errors, fly outs,
                                      groundouts, walks, double plays, you know,
                                      anything that can happen in a baseball game.
                                      Remember that 2 keys are printed per page front
                                      and back, for a total of 5 keys. The other page
                                      constains a bunt key and a steal key. There are
                                      slight variations of the outcomes on each of the
                                      5 primary result keys but the different keys are
                                      only used in the "advanced" version. Extra-base
                                      hits are usually triples of a certain roll
                                      (4-4-4 for example).

                                      In the advanced version, your individual players
                                      are rated and that number is put on the player
                                      card. Ratings are not individual player
                                      characteristics but are a single global rating.
                                      Pitchers are rated from 1-3, with one being good
                                      and three being poor. Batters are rated 4-6,
                                      with four being good and six being poor. You
                                      then compare these two numbers to arrive at a
                                      single number, by subtracting the pitcher rating
                                      from the batter rating. The number obtained
                                      determines which numbered key you read the
                                      play result from. It's that simple. Compare
                                      pitcher and batter player ratings which determines
                                      what numbered key you read the result from, roll
                                      the 3D6, find your result on that key, and move
                                      any base runners or record any outs. Although
                                      the website says games will usually take about
                                      an hour or so to play, you could easily get one
                                      done in less than 30 minutes. Because you only
                                      consult one key for a result, game play moves
                                      quickly.

                                      The keys do appear to be accurate, and as stated,
                                      reflect most plays that can occur in a baseball
                                      game. But because the results are generic, you
                                      lose the individual feel for players and how
                                      their characteristics may impact a game. For
                                      example, each player has an equal chance of
                                      hitting a home run. All dice rolls of 18 on all
                                      five of the keys are home runs. Doesn't matter
                                      if it is a light hitting shortstop, a pitcher,
                                      or a power hitting first baseman. A home run is
                                      a home run is a home run, if the number rolled
                                      is 18. This is similar for other hits as well.
                                      A 14 is a single and 4-4-4 is a double. Again,
                                      individual characteristics or attributes of
                                      players are not considered.

                                      The same generic feel applies to bunting and
                                      stealing. To bunt, you simply roll 1D6 and consult
                                      the bunt key. This key applies to all players.
                                      Stealing is perhaps the most innovative part of
                                      this game. You use different colored cards to
                                      steal, with each player's speed being rated
                                      according to three colors. Fast players have
                                      green cards, medium speed players yellow cards,
                                      and slow players, red. Two cards are blue and
                                      considered wild. If the card drawn matches the
                                      color of the your player stealing, then he is safe.
                                      Otherwise, he is out. I found this whole approach
                                      to stealing quite innovative and will likely import
                                      this system over to my playing of Pizza Box Baseball.
                                      This innovative stealing system is probably the
                                      strongest suit of this game. Overall, this game
                                      definitely has a "generic feel" to it. But that
                                      does not mean it is not fun and shouldn't be
                                      considered.

                                      If you are looking for a quick diversion and a
                                      game absent of complex rules and mechanics, then
                                      this is it. The introduction price is also right
                                      at $8.95. The price listed on the website is $9.95
                                      but they offer a special "promo" price if you
                                      input the words "web" or "tube" when purchasing.
                                      This entitles you to 10% off.

                                      This game will also be an excellent way to
                                      introduce videogame addicted kids to the joys of
                                      tabletop sports gaming. It is a very simple game
                                      to learn, simple to play , and probably can be
                                      understood by players as young as 7, as long as
                                      they understand the rules of baseball. But if
                                      you're looking for something a bit more in-depth,
                                      more realistic, or more complex, then look elsewhere.

                                      To conclude, this is definitely an introductory
                                      game, and could serve as the first rung in a ladder
                                      to more complex baseball simulations. But the
                                      game has a very generic feel to it and as an
                                      introductory game, I believe Jeff Downey's little
                                      gem of a game called The Baseabll Card Game, is
                                      a better choice. The Baseabll Card Game offers
                                      more depth, but the play mechanics remain simple,
                                      using 1 page of front and back charts and a deck of
                                      playing cards to obtain results. Each player has
                                      more of a individual feel to them in this game
                                      as well , as batters are rated for hitting quality,
                                      eye ,and power; while pitchers are rated for overall
                                      quality and control. Defensive quality of individual
                                      players are also considered, as well as stealing,
                                      bunting, and hit and run. Rating individual players
                                      does take more time in The Baseabll Card Game but
                                      once those ratings are established, the game it is
                                      a blast to play. I think it offers a more rewarding
                                      experience as an introductory baseball game than
                                      Throwback Baseball.

                                      But Throwback baseball is not without merit.
                                      It is simpler to play than The Baseabll Card Game,
                                      which will appeal to a younger or less sophisticated
                                      baseball audience, the steal system is quite
                                      innovative, it will provide you with an enjoyable
                                      diversion, and I will probably figure something out
                                      in what to do with the various numbered keys.
                                      I may incorporate them into my play of Baseball
                                      Strategy or figure out another system to determine
                                      when the various keys should be utilized. Perhaps
                                      the greatest thing I could develop in this game
                                      is to determine when a numbered key will be used,
                                      not based on a comparison between pitcher and
                                      batter, but on some other criteria. Maybe I
                                      could develop a pitcher/batter interface, similar
                                      to Baseabll Strategy, that will determine what key
                                      will be used. I may also tweak the keys a bit,
                                      and with those two changes, Throwback Baseabll
                                      may provide a more enjoyable experience. For
                                      those of you who have purchased this game, tell me
                                      what you think, and be willing to share some ideas
                                      on how you can improve the use of the result keys
                                      or perhaps change the actual keys themselves to
                                      inject more of an individual character into the game.

                                      Ken Sell

                                      --- In tabletopbaseball@ yahoogroups. com, Thomas Fuhs <2ampfuhs@.. .> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > I looked it up on www.boardgamegeek. com. No hits.
                                      >
                                      > On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 7:20 AM, Rickert <rickert46015@ ...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Has anyone played throwback Baseball 1.0. I'm looking for some opinions
                                      > > before I purchase. Thanks.
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >



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                                    • curt young
                                      hey u guys: i definitely prefer dice and player cards in a baseball simulation 2 my computer games, but i know that i could easily build better accuracy into a
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Jan 24, 2010
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        hey u guys:

                                        i definitely prefer dice and player cards in a baseball simulation 2 my computer games, but i know that i could easily build better accuracy into a computer sim than 1 controlled by 3 dice or less or 2d10s. i can understand how 1 could love a computer simulation if results is/r what 1 wants 2 c! when using dice and player cards, there seems 2 b a slight increase in the feeling of involvement a la a team manager. my major complaint with computer simulations is that i have no idea how accurate they r in replicating real batters and pitchers. if they r based on choosing random numbers from a set from 1 to 1000, i m impressed. this is tough 2 do with dice and cards; but if some1 is using the computer just 2 generate random numbers 2 replicate the 2d6 dice rolls and is keeping the inaccuracy of statis-pro original, i m not interested.

                                        by the way, the dice r much more random than those fast action cards we have grown accustomed 2. shuffle those decks much more often than u currently r doing!

                                        hey, spinners and discs r very accurate, especially if 1 sharpens the point on that arrow!

                                        hey, baseball, is it spring training yet?

                                        curt young

                                        chittenango NY

                                        kannapolis NC



                                        To: tabletopbaseball@yahoogroups.com
                                        From: jpfl28@...
                                        Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:55:58 -0800
                                        Subject: Re: throwback baseball 1.0

                                        I rarely post on any subject, I enjoy reading other posts but certainly do not plug this or any game (all my older post were because I had issues downloading etc.), I was asking if there were any comparable games that dont use dice (a personal preference) If I offended because I said dice are unrealistic my apologies





                                        From: O <noiro@...>
                                        To: tabletopbaseball@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Wed, January 20, 2010 10:57:27 PM
                                        Subject: Re: throwback baseball 1.0


                                        lease take no offense, but you plug this game so hard, so often it is almost like you are one of the people that created the game or at least invested in it ;)
                                      • Chris Shockey
                                        Another one of the reasons I like Replay computer baseball is that it also recreates the tabletop version of the game; you see the player cards, the dice
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Jan 25, 2010
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Another one of the reasons I like Replay computer baseball is that it
                                          also recreates the tabletop version of the game; you see the player
                                          cards, the dice rolls, and the actual page from the results book. As a
                                          bonus(if you download the free addon) Harry Carry sings "Take me out
                                          to the ball game" during the 7th inning stretch!
                                          They have a free trial on their website.
                                          It's been a while, but I think the site is www.replaybb.com

                                          Chris Shockey
                                          Go Saints!!

                                          Sent from my iPhone

                                          On Jan 24, 2010, at 2:53 PM, curt young <curtyoung13@...> wrote:

                                          > hey u guys:
                                          >
                                          > i definitely prefer dice and player cards in a baseball simulation 2
                                          > my computer games, but i know that i could easily build better
                                          > accuracy into a computer sim than 1 controlled by 3 dice or less or
                                          > 2d10s. i can understand how 1 could love a computer simulation if
                                          > results is/r what 1 wants 2 c! when using dice and player cards,
                                          > there seems 2 b a slight increase in the feeling of involvement a la
                                          > a team manager. my major complaint with computer simulations is
                                          > that i have no idea how accurate they r in replicating real batters
                                          > and pitchers. if they r based on choosing random numbers from a set
                                          > from 1 to 1000, i m impressed. this is tough 2 do with dice and
                                          > cards; but if some1 is using the computer just 2 generate random
                                          > numbers 2 replicate the 2d6 dice rolls and is keeping the inaccuracy
                                          > of statis-pro original, i m not interested.
                                          >
                                          > by the way, the dice r much more random than those fast action cards
                                          > we have grown accustomed 2. shuffle those decks much more often
                                          > than u currently r doing!
                                          >
                                          > hey, spinners and discs r very accurate, especially if 1 sharpens
                                          > the point on that arrow!
                                          >
                                          > hey, baseball, is it spring training yet?
                                          >
                                          > curt young
                                          >
                                          > chittenango NY
                                          >
                                          > kannapolis NC
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > To: tabletopbaseball@yahoogroups.com
                                          > From: jpfl28@...
                                          > Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:55:58 -0800
                                          > Subject: Re: throwback baseball 1.0
                                          >
                                          > I rarely post on any subject, I enjoy reading other posts but
                                          > certainly do not plug this or any game (all my older post were
                                          > because I had issues downloading etc.), I was asking if there were
                                          > any comparable games that dont use dice (a personal preference) If I
                                          > offended because I said dice are unrealistic my apologies
                                        • Paul
                                          If you are using 3 dice, you are getting a random number between 0-999. Isn t that the same accuracy as a computer program choosing a random number between
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Jan 25, 2010
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            If you are using 3 dice, you are getting a random number between 0-999.
                                            Isn't that the same accuracy as a computer program choosing a random number
                                            between 1-1000? How is that tough to do with dice? As noted, you just need 3
                                            d10.


                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: tabletopbaseball@yahoogroups.com
                                            [mailto:tabletopbaseball@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of curt young
                                            Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 1:53 PM
                                            To: tabletopbaseball@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: RE: throwback baseball 1.0

                                            hey u guys:

                                            i definitely prefer dice and player cards in a baseball simulation 2 my
                                            computer games, but i know that i could easily build better accuracy into a
                                            computer sim than 1 controlled by 3 dice or less or 2d10s. i can understand
                                            how 1 could love a computer simulation if results is/r what 1 wants 2 c!
                                            when using dice and player cards, there seems 2 b a slight increase in the
                                            feeling of involvement a la a team manager. my major complaint with
                                            computer simulations is that i have no idea how accurate they r in
                                            replicating real batters and pitchers. if they r based on choosing random
                                            numbers from a set from 1 to 1000, i m impressed. this is tough 2 do with
                                            dice and cards; but if some1 is using the computer just 2 generate random
                                            numbers 2 replicate the 2d6 dice rolls and is keeping the inaccuracy of
                                            statis-pro original, i m not interested.

                                            by the way, the dice r much more random than those fast action cards we have
                                            grown accustomed 2. shuffle those decks much more often than u currently r
                                            doing!

                                            hey, spinners and discs r very accurate, especially if 1 sharpens the point
                                            on that arrow!

                                            hey, baseball, is it spring training yet?

                                            curt young

                                            chittenango NY

                                            kannapolis NC



                                            To: tabletopbaseball@yahoogroups.com
                                            From: jpfl28@...
                                            Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:55:58 -0800
                                            Subject: Re: throwback baseball 1.0

                                            I rarely post on any subject, I enjoy reading other posts but certainly do
                                            not plug this or any game (all my older post were because I had issues
                                            downloading etc.), I was asking if there were any comparable games that dont
                                            use dice (a personal preference) If I offended because I said dice are
                                            unrealistic my apologies





                                            From: O <noiro@...>
                                            To: tabletopbaseball@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Wed, January 20, 2010 10:57:27 PM
                                            Subject: Re: throwback baseball 1.0


                                            lease take no offense, but you plug this game so hard, so often it is almost
                                            like you are one of the people that created the game or at least invested in
                                            it ;)


                                            ------------------------------------

                                            Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          • curt young
                                            yes, n e 1 using 3d10 is getting tremendous accuracy if using 3 different colors, but the player card will have 2 b mighty involved . i would definitely
                                            Message 21 of 27 , Jan 26, 2010
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              yes, n e 1 using 3d10 is getting tremendous accuracy if using 3 different colors, but the player card will have 2 b mighty "involved". i would definitely prefer that 2 having the computer play 4 me, keeping all card data out of my sight as the programs tend 2 do.



                                              To: tabletopbaseball@yahoogroups.com
                                              From: badgermaniac@...
                                              Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 20:21:22 -0600
                                              Subject: RE: throwback baseball 1.0





                                              If you are using 3 dice, you are getting a random number between 0-999.
                                              Isn't that the same accuracy as a computer program choosing a random number
                                              between 1-1000? How is that tough to do with dice? As noted, you just need 3
                                              d10.

                                              -----Original Message-----
                                              From: tabletopbaseball@yahoogroups.com
                                              [mailto:tabletopbaseball@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of curt young
                                              Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 1:53 PM
                                              To: tabletopbaseball@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: RE: throwback baseball 1.0

                                              hey u guys:

                                              i definitely prefer dice and player cards in a baseball simulation 2 my
                                              computer games, but i know that i could easily build better accuracy into a
                                              computer sim than 1 controlled by 3 dice or less or 2d10s. i can understand
                                              how 1 could love a computer simulation if results is/r what 1 wants 2 c!
                                              when using dice and player cards, there seems 2 b a slight increase in the
                                              feeling of involvement a la a team manager. my major complaint with
                                              computer simulations is that i have no idea how accurate they r in
                                              replicating real batters and pitchers. if they r based on choosing random
                                              numbers from a set from 1 to 1000, i m impressed. this is tough 2 do with
                                              dice and cards; but if some1 is using the computer just 2 generate random
                                              numbers 2 replicate the 2d6 dice rolls and is keeping the inaccuracy of
                                              statis-pro original, i m not interested.

                                              by the way, the dice r much more random than those fast action cards we have
                                              grown accustomed 2. shuffle those decks much more often than u currently r
                                              doing!

                                              hey, spinners and discs r very accurate, especially if 1 sharpens the point
                                              on that arrow!

                                              hey, baseball, is it spring training yet?

                                              curt young

                                              chittenango NY

                                              kannapolis NC


                                              To: tabletopbaseball@yahoogroups.com
                                              From: jpfl28@...
                                              Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:55:58 -0800
                                              Subject: Re: throwback baseball 1.0

                                              I rarely post on any subject, I enjoy reading other posts but certainly do
                                              not plug this or any game (all my older post were because I had issues
                                              downloading etc.), I was asking if there were any comparable games that dont
                                              use dice (a personal preference) If I offended because I said dice are
                                              unrealistic my apologies

                                              From: O <noiro@...>
                                              To: tabletopbaseball@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Wed, January 20, 2010 10:57:27 PM
                                              Subject: Re: throwback baseball 1.0

                                              lease take no offense, but you plug this game so hard, so often it is almost
                                              like you are one of the people that created the game or at least invested in
                                              it ;)
                                            • Chris Shockey
                                              Again, it s not the rolling of the dice in question here; it s some of the bookeeping involved. I can play about 2 games per hour tabletop vs 3-5 on the pc. I
                                              Message 22 of 27 , Jan 27, 2010
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Again, it's not the rolling of the dice in question here; it's some of the bookeeping involved. I can play about 2 games per hour tabletop vs 3-5 on the pc. I still make all of the decisions as the computer game has the AI turned off. But I save upwards to 20 min in not having to fill out up to 10 different lineups; the program fills those out then I print then and keep a hard copy scorecard while I play.
                                                And if I do play a tabletop game I just have to manually enter the boxscore and scorecard.
                                                I don't think we are knocking tabletop versions of games; it's just nice to have a way to enjoy my hobby when there's no table around or when it's not feasable to break out my dice, charts, and cards.
                                                I have also introduced new players to the hobby this way; it's easier to teach the game with less bookeeping involved. Almost everyone I have introduced the computer game to has gone out and bought a tabletop copy of the game.
                                                A game club I belong to has a motto that has become it's mission: "Grow the Hobby". It's not about pc vs dice; it's about growing the hobby by bringing more people into it by showing them different ways to enjoy it,

                                                Chris Shockey

                                                Sent from my iPhone

                                                On Jan 25, 2010, at 9:21 PM, "Paul" <badgermaniac@...> wrote:

                                                 

                                                If you are using 3 dice, you are getting a random number between 0-999.
                                                Isn't that the same accuracy as a computer program choosing a random number
                                                between 1-1000? How is that tough to do with dice? As noted, you just need 3
                                                d10.

                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                From: tabletopbaseball@ yahoogroups. com
                                                [mailto:tabletopbaseball@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of curt young
                                                Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 1:53 PM
                                                To: tabletopbaseball@ yahoogroups. com
                                                Subject: RE: throwback baseball 1.0

                                                hey u guys:

                                                i definitely prefer dice and player cards in a baseball simulation 2 my
                                                computer games, but i know that i could easily build better accuracy into a
                                                computer sim than 1 controlled by 3 dice or less or 2d10s. i can understand
                                                how 1 could love a computer simulation if results is/r what 1 wants 2 c!
                                                when using dice and player cards, there seems 2 b a slight increase in the
                                                feeling of involvement a la a team manager. my major complaint with
                                                computer simulations is that i have no idea how accurate they r in
                                                replicating real batters and pitchers. if they r based on choosing random
                                                numbers from a set from 1 to 1000, i m impressed. this is tough 2 do with
                                                dice and cards; but if some1 is using the computer just 2 generate random
                                                numbers 2 replicate the 2d6 dice rolls and is keeping the inaccuracy of
                                                statis-pro original, i m not interested.

                                                by the way, the dice r much more random than those fast action cards we have
                                                grown accustomed 2. shuffle those decks much more often than u currently r
                                                doing!

                                                hey, spinners and discs r very accurate, especially if 1 sharpens the point
                                                on that arrow!

                                                hey, baseball, is it spring training yet?

                                                curt young

                                                chittenango NY

                                                kannapolis NC


                                                To: tabletopbaseball@ yahoogroups. com
                                                From: jpfl28@yahoo. com
                                                Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:55:58 -0800
                                                Subject: Re: throwback baseball 1.0

                                                I rarely post on any subject, I enjoy reading other posts but certainly do
                                                not plug this or any game (all my older post were because I had issues
                                                downloading etc.), I was asking if there were any comparable games that dont
                                                use dice (a personal preference) If I offended because I said dice are
                                                unrealistic my apologies

                                                From: O <noiro@...>
                                                To: tabletopbaseball@ yahoogroups. com
                                                Sent: Wed, January 20, 2010 10:57:27 PM
                                                Subject: Re: throwback baseball 1.0

                                                lease take no offense, but you plug this game so hard, so often it is almost
                                                like you are one of the people that created the game or at least invested in
                                                it ;)

                                                ------------ --------- --------- ------

                                                Yahoo! Groups Links

                                              • wilfredo anderson
                                                     I have to read again when i saw a comment that in ballpark baseball you as a the manager make much decisions than , say in strato-- i have to disagree.
                                                Message 23 of 27 , Jan 27, 2010
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                   
                                                     I have to read again when i saw a comment that in ballpark baseball you as a the
                                                  manager make much decisions than , say in strato-- i have to disagree.
                                                  First at all, strato. is a i think one of the best dice simulation game, which combines
                                                  ease of play, accuracy, see that i am not saying perfection, but pretty decent accuracy,
                                                  fun of game playiing--very much and indeed if you play the super-advance or advance verison you will be making nmany managerial decisions --and another thing, it is not the
                                                  amount of managerial decisions the game allows you to make it is the QUALITY AND
                                                  common SENSE(intelligence and prevention-that is ON TIME !!!) OF THEM IN DECIDING THE OUTCOME OF A GAME--- the game may allow you discretion to make many absurd,without a justification--so it is required some luck-some quiete understanding of the mechanics of baseball and its rules--and some good real game managerial knowledge
                                                  of the game--example---in putting up your LINE-UP, ARRANGING THE BEST LINE-UP,
                                                  CHANGING THE PITCHERS FOR THE ADEQUATE ONES...
                                                  STEALING AND RUNNING THE BASES, BUNTING--USING GOOD DEFENSE (this takes
                                                  into account the importance of defense and pitching in the game) and i can tell you
                                                  Strat-o-matic is indeed a very good game whereby your managerial decisions INFLUENCE
                                                  VERY-VERY MUCH ON ITS OUTCOME--  especially the running game, the bunting game
                                                  the changing and bringing of the adequate pitchers available--
                                                  The use of adequate infield-IN -deep positions ..
                                                  The judicious use of a pinch hitter in the national league--Strato has  ALL !!!
                                                  your bench available--pinch runners- and in fact I want to tell you all that i ordered ballpark baseball some time ago and i received for the 1961 season just the american league!! they
                                                  did not include the national league--1961-- and  Strato is much more fast and fun to play,
                                                  more simple and at the same time very DECENTLY  precise, although -of course--not perfect!!!
                                                   
                                                  I will stay with Strato, baseball classics and replay..
                                                  And i love the feeling and the sense and noise of the DICES-- in my hand over any
                                                  PC playing for me and i love myself to draw the scorecard-and keep it, the records
                                                  the batting averages --I myself!!!  no PC for me, i myself keep that!!!
                                                   
                                                  wilfredo anderson
                                                  Puerto Rico
                                                   
                                                  and too late changes!!
                                                • Chris Shockey
                                                  I think in both strat and replay baseball you see the actual player card on the screen; Sent from my iPhone
                                                  Message 24 of 27 , Jan 27, 2010
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    I think in both strat and replay baseball you see the actual player
                                                    card on the screen;

                                                    Sent from my iPhone

                                                    On Jan 26, 2010, at 7:16 PM, curt young <curtyoung13@...> wrote:

                                                    > yes, n e 1 using 3d10 is getting tremendous accuracy if using 3
                                                    > different colors, but the player card will have 2 b mighty
                                                    > "involved". i would definitely prefer that 2 having the computer
                                                    > play 4 me, keeping all card data out of my sight as the programs
                                                    > tend 2 do.
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > To: tabletopbaseball@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > From: badgermaniac@...
                                                    > Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 20:21:22 -0600
                                                    > Subject: RE: throwback baseball 1.0
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > If you are using 3 dice, you are getting a random number between
                                                    > 0-999.
                                                    > Isn't that the same accuracy as a computer program choosing a random
                                                    > number
                                                    > between 1-1000? How is that tough to do with dice? As noted, you
                                                    > just need 3
                                                    > d10.
                                                    >
                                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                                    > From: tabletopbaseball@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > [mailto:tabletopbaseball@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of curt young
                                                    > Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 1:53 PM
                                                    > To: tabletopbaseball@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > Subject: RE: throwback baseball 1.0
                                                    >
                                                    > hey u guys:
                                                    >
                                                    > i definitely prefer dice and player cards in a baseball simulation 2
                                                    > my
                                                    > computer games, but i know that i could easily build better accuracy
                                                    > into a
                                                    > computer sim than 1 controlled by 3 dice or less or 2d10s. i can
                                                    > understand
                                                    > how 1 could love a computer simulation if results is/r what 1 wants
                                                    > 2 c!
                                                    > when using dice and player cards, there seems 2 b a slight increase
                                                    > in the
                                                    > feeling of involvement a la a team manager. my major complaint with
                                                    > computer simulations is that i have no idea how accurate they r in
                                                    > replicating real batters and pitchers. if they r based on choosing
                                                    > random
                                                    > numbers from a set from 1 to 1000, i m impressed. this is tough 2 do
                                                    > with
                                                    > dice and cards; but if some1 is using the computer just 2 generate
                                                    > random
                                                    > numbers 2 replicate the 2d6 dice rolls and is keeping the inaccuracy
                                                    > of
                                                    > statis-pro original, i m not interested.
                                                    >
                                                    > by the way, the dice r much more random than those fast action cards
                                                    > we have
                                                    > grown accustomed 2. shuffle those decks much more often than u
                                                    > currently r
                                                    > doing!
                                                    >
                                                    > hey, spinners and discs r very accurate, especially if 1 sharpens
                                                    > the point
                                                    > on that arrow!
                                                    >
                                                    > hey, baseball, is it spring training yet?
                                                    >
                                                    > curt young
                                                    >
                                                    > chittenango NY
                                                    >
                                                    > kannapolis NC
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > To: tabletopbaseball@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > From: jpfl28@...
                                                    > Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:55:58 -0800
                                                    > Subject: Re: throwback baseball 1.0
                                                    >
                                                    > I rarely post on any subject, I enjoy reading other posts but
                                                    > certainly do
                                                    > not plug this or any game (all my older post were because I had issues
                                                    > downloading etc.), I was asking if there were any comparable games
                                                    > that dont
                                                    > use dice (a personal preference) If I offended because I said dice are
                                                    > unrealistic my apologies
                                                    >
                                                    > From: O <noiro@...>
                                                    > To: tabletopbaseball@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > Sent: Wed, January 20, 2010 10:57:27 PM
                                                    > Subject: Re: throwback baseball 1.0
                                                    >
                                                    > lease take no offense, but you plug this game so hard, so often it
                                                    > is almost
                                                    > like you are one of the people that created the game or at least
                                                    > invested in
                                                    > it ;)
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > ------------------------------------
                                                    >
                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                  • Paul
                                                    I guess it depends. Here is a PtP card. Is it too involved ? I always thought they were quite simple.
                                                    Message 25 of 27 , Jan 27, 2010
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      I guess it depends. Here is a PtP card. Is it too "involved"? I always
                                                      thought they were quite simple.

                                                      http://www.markgrace.com/cards/oddballs/91PURSUETHEPENNANT.jpg


                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                      From: tabletopbaseball@yahoogroups.com
                                                      [mailto:tabletopbaseball@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of curt young
                                                      Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 6:17 PM
                                                      To: tabletopbaseball@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Subject: RE: throwback baseball 1.0

                                                      yes, n e 1 using 3d10 is getting tremendous accuracy if using 3 different
                                                      colors, but the player card will have 2 b mighty "involved". i would
                                                      definitely prefer that 2 having the computer play 4 me, keeping all card
                                                      data out of my sight as the programs tend 2 do.



                                                      To: tabletopbaseball@yahoogroups.com
                                                      From: badgermaniac@...
                                                      Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 20:21:22 -0600
                                                      Subject: RE: throwback baseball 1.0





                                                      If you are using 3 dice, you are getting a random number between 0-999.
                                                      Isn't that the same accuracy as a computer program choosing a random number
                                                      between 1-1000? How is that tough to do with dice? As noted, you just need 3
                                                      d10.

                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                      From: tabletopbaseball@yahoogroups.com
                                                      [mailto:tabletopbaseball@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of curt young
                                                      Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 1:53 PM
                                                      To: tabletopbaseball@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Subject: RE: throwback baseball 1.0

                                                      hey u guys:

                                                      i definitely prefer dice and player cards in a baseball simulation 2 my
                                                      computer games, but i know that i could easily build better accuracy into a
                                                      computer sim than 1 controlled by 3 dice or less or 2d10s. i can understand
                                                      how 1 could love a computer simulation if results is/r what 1 wants 2 c!
                                                      when using dice and player cards, there seems 2 b a slight increase in the
                                                      feeling of involvement a la a team manager. my major complaint with
                                                      computer simulations is that i have no idea how accurate they r in
                                                      replicating real batters and pitchers. if they r based on choosing random
                                                      numbers from a set from 1 to 1000, i m impressed. this is tough 2 do with
                                                      dice and cards; but if some1 is using the computer just 2 generate random
                                                      numbers 2 replicate the 2d6 dice rolls and is keeping the inaccuracy of
                                                      statis-pro original, i m not interested.

                                                      by the way, the dice r much more random than those fast action cards we have
                                                      grown accustomed 2. shuffle those decks much more often than u currently r
                                                      doing!

                                                      hey, spinners and discs r very accurate, especially if 1 sharpens the point
                                                      on that arrow!

                                                      hey, baseball, is it spring training yet?

                                                      curt young

                                                      chittenango NY

                                                      kannapolis NC


                                                      To: tabletopbaseball@yahoogroups.com
                                                      From: jpfl28@...
                                                      Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:55:58 -0800
                                                      Subject: Re: throwback baseball 1.0

                                                      I rarely post on any subject, I enjoy reading other posts but certainly do
                                                      not plug this or any game (all my older post were because I had issues
                                                      downloading etc.), I was asking if there were any comparable games that dont
                                                      use dice (a personal preference) If I offended because I said dice are
                                                      unrealistic my apologies

                                                      From: O <noiro@...>
                                                      To: tabletopbaseball@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Sent: Wed, January 20, 2010 10:57:27 PM
                                                      Subject: Re: throwback baseball 1.0

                                                      lease take no offense, but you plug this game so hard, so often it is almost
                                                      like you are one of the people that created the game or at least invested in
                                                      it ;)


                                                      ------------------------------------

                                                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                    • Paul
                                                      You can do whatever floats your boat. If you like any particular game over the other, that is fine. I was just responding to the following statement: if they r
                                                      Message 26 of 27 , Jan 27, 2010
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        You can do whatever floats your boat. If you like any particular game over the other, that is fine. I was just responding to the following statement:



                                                        if they r based on choosing random
                                                        numbers from a set from 1 to 1000, i m impressed. this is tough 2 do with
                                                        dice and cards



                                                        It isn't tough at all.





                                                        From: tabletopbaseball@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tabletopbaseball@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Shockey
                                                        Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 9:46 AM
                                                        To: tabletopbaseball@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Subject: Re: throwback baseball 1.0





                                                        Again, it's not the rolling of the dice in question here; it's some of the bookeeping involved. I can play about 2 games per hour tabletop vs 3-5 on the pc. I still make all of the decisions as the computer game has the AI turned off. But I save upwards to 20 min in not having to fill out up to 10 different lineups; the program fills those out then I print then and keep a hard copy scorecard while I play.

                                                        And if I do play a tabletop game I just have to manually enter the boxscore and scorecard.

                                                        I don't think we are knocking tabletop versions of games; it's just nice to have a way to enjoy my hobby when there's no table around or when it's not feasable to break out my dice, charts, and cards.

                                                        I have also introduced new players to the hobby this way; it's easier to teach the game with less bookeeping involved. Almost everyone I have introduced the computer game to has gone out and bought a tabletop copy of the game.

                                                        A game club I belong to has a motto that has become it's mission: "Grow the Hobby". It's not about pc vs dice; it's about growing the hobby by bringing more people into it by showing them different ways to enjoy it,



                                                        Chris Shockey
                                                      • wilfredo anderson
                                                            Well, this is not an easy issue-but it will depend on the age of the players,if they work, are married, have children, or are alone-singles. Because time
                                                        Message 27 of 27 , Jan 27, 2010
                                                        • 0 Attachment
                                                           
                                                            Well, this is not an easy issue-but it will depend on the age of the players,if they
                                                          work, are married, have children, or are alone-singles. Because time is precious for
                                                          most of the people--the ease of play, the accuracy, the beauty of the game-of the cards,
                                                          the feeling of the emotion of the homerun!! The decision to change the pitcher in the bottom of the 9th with the bases loaded and two outs-the game is tied...I have been playing many
                                                          years this baseball board games and if i would have all the time in my life-which i do not have to play I would spent the whole day playing --baseball classics-strat-omatic and
                                                          Replay baseball- but i have to admit that strat-o-matic is something that change my life
                                                          since very small--it was the game of my dreams!!--but now i am trying one that has come
                                                          to keep me addicted hours--and is called Baseball classics--as apba baseball did some
                                                          years ago- Statis pro kept me illusioned too but the individual pitching cards available
                                                          in baseball classics and strat-o are very importante to me.-and the ability to read RIGHT
                                                          THERE !! IN THE CARDS--THE  RESULTS!! this is possible in strato and in baseball
                                                          classics and i have to value very much that--
                                                          To see the Bob fellers-1946 card and to see Babe Ruth card in strato-just by seeing the
                                                          card-you like the games--you love them.
                                                          I see on this two games-- strato and baseball classics my Field of dreams come true.
                                                          A combination of accuracy with easy play-much fun make this two games my favourites
                                                          as of today.
                                                          wilfredo
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