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is this music?

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  • crgn
    http://www.myspace.com/signalfuries particularly Chris and Ian. listen to the songs on this page. is it music or just noise? and why? personally i think its
    Message 1 of 10 , Jun 20, 2006
      http://www.myspace.com/signalfuries

      particularly Chris and Ian.

      listen to the songs on this page. is it music or just noise? and why?
      personally i think its music of the highest calibre and that the guy who did
      it is one of those musical genius people things.
    • crgn
      all music could technically bew described as noise. but i meant noise as in meaningless in this context. these are tracks from the forthcoming cindytalk
      Message 2 of 10 , Jun 21, 2006
        all music could technically bew described as noise. but i meant "noise" as in "meaningless" in this context. these are tracks from the forthcoming cindytalk album "the crackle of my soul". he calls what he's doing here "noise poetry". i suppose i was asking if there was any "meaning" conveyed. to me there is big style, but then im very familiar with the guys work anyway. wanted a fresh set of ears, cos to me this really IS so different from most noise stuff whoxs only concern usually is to brutalise and confuse the listener or even most avant-classical stuff which is usually overly technical or dry. this stuff is completely different i think. "soul" music indeed.
        -----Original Message-----
        From: systemsforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:systemsforum@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of livingstone
        Sent: 22 June 2006 02:38
        To: systemsforum@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [systemsforum] is this music?

        "Is this music or just noise?"
         
        It's both music and noise. I've listened to the four tracks twice now and I like it. "Tallis" is great.
        Nothing wrong with it whatsoever.
         
        Simple.
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: crgn
        Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 1:05 AM
        Subject: [systemsforum] is this music?

        http://www.myspace. com/signalfuries

        particularly Chris and Ian.

        listen to the songs on this page. is it music or just noise? and why?
        personally i think its music of the highest calibre and that the guy who did
        it is one of those musical genius people things.


        No virus found in this incoming message.
        Checked by AVG Free Edition.
        Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/370 - Release Date: 20/06/2006
      • crgn
        big difference i think. i think that is art-y in the sense that it eschews commercialism, but not Art . its Pop music really. it still does adhere to the
        Message 3 of 10 , Jun 21, 2006
          big difference i think. i think that is "art-y" in the sense that it eschews commercialism,  but not "Art". its Pop music really. it still does adhere to the pop format of the 3/4 minute song, whereas something that would be self conciously put forward as "Art" wouldnt. also i think that the level of Composition involved, the Placing of Elements rather than randomisation pushes it more towards music. an artist would be much ore concerned with the overall aesthetic effect rather than the detail of this. the conceptual theory of the Artist rather than raw naked "soul" of the musician..its easier for me to hear this composed element of it cos ive been a big fan of this guy for 20 years now and i know his previous work, im interested if anyone else can hear this as well.
          -----Original Message-----
          From: systemsforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:systemsforum@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jonnyboy
          Sent: 22 June 2006 12:57
          To: systemsforum@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [systemsforum] is this music?

          I'd say it's more art than music, if there's a difference.

          On 6/22/06, livingstone <ilivingstone@... > wrote:

          "Is this music or just noise?"
           
          It's both music and noise. I've listened to the four tracks twice now and I like it. "Tallis" is great.
          Nothing wrong with it whatsoever.
           
          Simple.
           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: crgn
          Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 1:05 AM
          Subject: [systemsforum] is this music?

          http://www.myspace.com/signalfuries

          particularly Chris and Ian.

          listen to the songs on this page. is it music or just noise? and why?
          personally i think its music of the highest calibre and that the guy who did
          it is one of those musical genius people things.


          No virus found in this incoming message.
          Checked by AVG Free Edition.
          Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/370 - Release Date: 20/06/2006


        • livingstone
          Is this music or just noise? It s both music and noise. I ve listened to the four tracks twice now and I like it. Tallis is great. Nothing wrong with it
          Message 4 of 10 , Jun 21, 2006
            "Is this music or just noise?"
             
            It's both music and noise. I've listened to the four tracks twice now and I like it. "Tallis" is great.
            Nothing wrong with it whatsoever.
             
            Simple.
             
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: crgn
            Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 1:05 AM
            Subject: [systemsforum] is this music?

            http://www.myspace. com/signalfuries

            particularly Chris and Ian.

            listen to the songs on this page. is it music or just noise? and why?
            personally i think its music of the highest calibre and that the guy who did
            it is one of those musical genius people things.


            No virus found in this incoming message.
            Checked by AVG Free Edition.
            Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/370 - Release Date: 20/06/2006
          • Jonnyboy
            I d say it s more art than music, if there s a difference.
            Message 5 of 10 , Jun 22, 2006
              I'd say it's more art than music, if there's a difference.

              On 6/22/06, livingstone <ilivingstone@... > wrote:

              "Is this music or just noise?"
               
              It's both music and noise. I've listened to the four tracks twice now and I like it. "Tallis" is great.
              Nothing wrong with it whatsoever.
               
              Simple.
               
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: crgn
              Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 1:05 AM
              Subject: [systemsforum] is this music?

              http://www.myspace.com/signalfuries

              particularly Chris and Ian.

              listen to the songs on this page. is it music or just noise? and why?
              personally i think its music of the highest calibre and that the guy who did
              it is one of those musical genius people things.


              No virus found in this incoming message.
              Checked by AVG Free Edition.
              Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/370 - Release Date: 20/06/2006


            • crgn
              interesting. you and Ian both picked out tallis . this is what sharp says about it. there are a couple of sped-up hardcore tracks inside TALLIS.sitting
              Message 6 of 10 , Jun 24, 2006
                interesting. you and Ian both picked out "tallis". this is what sharp says
                about it. "there are a couple of sped-up hardcore tracks inside
                TALLIS.sitting alongside a ponderous vaughan williams sample as bass
                motion.fast/slow/fast collision". "foray" and "flux planet" are the 2 from
                the album.

                "I consider every noise to be
                music in potential."

                mm. my definition of noise as opposed to "music", is that noise is something
                random and unorganised and music is something that is made by a musician and
                is something that the musician has orgtanised in order to put across a
                certain feeling or expressiveness or whatever. thes tracks are made up of
                noise but theyre organisation makes them music. whereas in this definition
                someone sitting playing the guitar very badly and cliched i would see as
                "noise". (ever heard a room full of teenage guitarists noodling between
                songs? noise!). the difference is the expression or "soul" of the musician
                or artist.

                "As for meaning... Its pretty abstract, and I think thats reflected in the
                style."

                music is a pretty abstract medium though dont you think? expressing that
                which cant be expressed in words etc. thats the strength of music. the
                traditional rock "narrative" form of music would seem to be a denial of the
                power of music, putting the importance on the words. now there ARE Cindytalk
                songs with words, and i get kinda frustrated when Sharp doesnt sing cos he's
                one of my favourite voices. theres a double album called "In This World"
                where even though i love his voice and his lyrics are great, the 2nd disc
                which comprises almost entirely of improvised piano pieces is the one that
                completely astounds me.


                "I wonder what he means by 'noise poetry'."

                he says this: "i have no desire to play the usual glitch/click/pop nonsense
                or those macho-noise assaults.it's poetry i'm after,that and scoring
                imaginery short films.i'll get there,just a bit further up the road and
                round the corner.... "

                poetry as opposed to the "usual" and "macho assaults". here he is describing
                a gig.

                "i'll be swimming heroically against the waves once more ;-P the sounds on
                the night will be mostly breakcore,drum'n'bass and idm,i'll be plonked in
                the middle doing a set of super slow and screechy noise-poetry.the music of
                imaginary stars...drifting further and further out into space,attempting to
                send signals home... hopefully it will be a short sonic "film".i'm also
                hoping to use some "cornered film" footage.a skewed view of tarkovsky's
                "stalker",where you only see fragments of what's actually on the screen. an
                abstraction of sorts.should be interesting to see how it works in this
                context.i saw two of the acts on the same bill last week in osaka... noize
                creator's first 25 minutes was great,less breakcore and more his take on
                dubstepish ideas and nicely funky.i danced.the second half of his set wasn't
                so good,it got a bit more obvious,using crappy soundclips from what sounded
                like an american b-movie (unlike my dead cool soundclips from artsy french
                and russian films,erm...) and he ended up with that obligatory heavy metal
                guitar thrash breakcore,much loved by mosh-pit boys of all ages.yawn."

                "It sounds pretty brutal to me."

                to me it sounds "Beautiful". although ive had my periods of being immersed
                in noise. this is the thing thsat interests me about it. the USUAL idea with
                someone making noise IS brutality. thats why i say that this is completely
                different. perhaps we're so used to connecting noise with brutality that we
                automatically assume. Jonnyboy saw it as more like "art" which is also
                somethign we're used to :noise as art. noise as beauty maybe is harder to
                comprehend. although im not presuming my interpretation is the "correct"
                one. Jonnyboy is right when he says "art" cos this stuff is presented in an
                "art" way, although theres more to it than that. "Brutal" is also correct
                Cindytalk can be very brutal. and "beauty" is also correct. its interesting
                how different people take out of it different things. cindytalk is however
                ALL these things. (and more). a recurring theme in his career is the
                juxtaposition of extremes and the collision of opposites.

                "Not brutal like Tone's Solo for Wounded CD
                (have you heard it?)"

                no. sounds similar to Oval maybe whove made whole albums by wrecking CDs.?

                "'Foray' feels like looking at a car wreck (although this wasn't
                what cropped up in my imagination at the time). Even though there's a dead
                baby lying face down on the road you can't help but look."

                maybe an incredibly beautiful dead girl and youre repulsed by the horror but
                filled by the beauty at the same time?

                " To me it seems like a refined approach, "

                hes been doing music since the late 70's so it IS refined.


                "Worth another
                visit."

                if you wanna hear more check out http://www.touchedradio.com/1.htm
                if you wanna know more about Sharp, this is the place:
                http://of-ghosts-and-buildings.blogspot.com/

                be warned though. he's a middle aged Scottish Transvestite. a Genius, yes.
                but a middle aged scottish transvestite genius.



                -----Original Message-----
                From: systemsforum@yahoogroups.com
                [mailto:systemsforum@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Chris McEvoy
                Sent: 26 June 2006 02:53
                To: systemsforum@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [systemsforum] is this music?


                Its certainly very fertile. Tallis was the first thing that loaded for me,
                and it engendered (can't think of a better word) some really amazing mental
                images.

                Is it music or noise? Well, I'm no authority... I consider every noise to be
                music in potential. I liked it though, whatever it was. If life were a
                stream, this guy would be swimming with the current.

                As for meaning... Its pretty abstract, and I think thats reflected in the
                style. I wonder what he means by 'noise poetry'. Perhaps there is some
                tangible, direct meaning to it, poetry being somewhere between prose and
                music right?

                "wanted a fresh set of ears, cos to me this really IS so different
                >from most noise stuff whoxs only concern usually is to brutalise and
                >confuse
                >the listener or even most avant-classical stuff which is usually overly
                >technical or dry. this stuff is completely different i think. "soul" music
                >indeed."

                It sounds pretty brutal to me. Not brutal like Tone's Solo for Wounded CD
                (have you heard it?) as in sonically brutal, but... musically brutal?
                Torturous. 'Foray' feels like looking at a car wreck (although this wasn't
                what cropped up in my imagination at the time). Even though there's a dead
                baby lying face down on the road you can't help but look. Its very seductive
                stuff.

                " i think its music of the highest calibre and that the guy who
                >did
                > it is one of those musical genius people things"

                Well, maybe. To me it seems like a refined approach, not 'totally
                different'. Certainly a breath of fresh air amongst the smog. Worth another
                visit.

                >From: "crgn" <heathert.long@...>
                >Reply-To: systemsforum@yahoogroups.com
                >To: <systemsforum@yahoogroups.com>
                >Subject: RE: [systemsforum] is this music?
                >Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 22:39:10 +0100
                >
                >all music could technically bew described as noise. but i meant "noise" as
                >in "meaningless" in this context. these are tracks from the forthcoming
                >cindytalk album "the crackle of my soul". he calls what he's doing here
                >"noise poetry". i suppose i was asking if there was any "meaning" conveyed.
                >to me there is big style, but then im very familiar with the guys work
                >anyway. wanted a fresh set of ears, cos to me this really IS so different
                >from most noise stuff whoxs only concern usually is to brutalise and
                >confuse
                >the listener or even most avant-classical stuff which is usually overly
                >technical or dry. this stuff is completely different i think. "soul" music
                >indeed.
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: systemsforum@yahoogroups.com
                >[mailto:systemsforum@yahoogroups.com]On
                >Behalf Of livingstone
                > Sent: 22 June 2006 02:38
                > To: systemsforum@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [systemsforum] is this music?
                >
                >
                > "Is this music or just noise?"
                >
                > It's both music and noise. I've listened to the four tracks twice now
                >and
                >I like it. "Tallis" is great.
                > Nothing wrong with it whatsoever.
                >
                > Simple.
                >
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: crgn
                > To: Systemsforum
                > Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 1:05 AM
                > Subject: [systemsforum] is this music?
                >
                >
                > http://www.myspace.com/signalfuries
                >
                > particularly Chris and Ian.
                >
                > listen to the songs on this page. is it music or just noise? and why?
                > personally i think its music of the highest calibre and that the guy
                >who
                >did
                > it is one of those musical genius people things.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >---------------------------------------------------------------------------
                -
                >
                >
                > No virus found in this incoming message.
                > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/370 - Release Date:
                >20/06/2006
                >
                >






                Yahoo! Groups Links
              • crgn
                http://www.touchedradio.com/1.htm this is best place to start with cindytalk. a compilation of their studio tracks. ... From: systemsforum@yahoogroups.com
                Message 7 of 10 , Jun 24, 2006
                  http://www.touchedradio.com/1.htm

                  this is best place to start with cindytalk. a compilation of their studio
                  tracks.

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: systemsforum@yahoogroups.com
                  [mailto:systemsforum@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of crgn
                  Sent: 25 June 2006 05:23
                  To: systemsforum@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [systemsforum] is this music?


                  interesting. you and Ian both picked out "tallis". this is what sharp says
                  about it. "there are a couple of sped-up hardcore tracks inside
                  TALLIS.sitting alongside a ponderous vaughan williams sample as bass
                  motion.fast/slow/fast collision". "foray" and "flux planet" are the 2 from
                  the album.

                  "I consider every noise to be
                  music in potential."

                  mm. my definition of noise as opposed to "music", is that noise is something
                  random and unorganised and music is something that is made by a musician and
                  is something that the musician has orgtanised in order to put across a
                  certain feeling or expressiveness or whatever. thes tracks are made up of
                  noise but theyre organisation makes them music. whereas in this definition
                  someone sitting playing the guitar very badly and cliched i would see as
                  "noise". (ever heard a room full of teenage guitarists noodling between
                  songs? noise!). the difference is the expression or "soul" of the musician
                  or artist.

                  "As for meaning... Its pretty abstract, and I think thats reflected in the
                  style."

                  music is a pretty abstract medium though dont you think? expressing that
                  which cant be expressed in words etc. thats the strength of music. the
                  traditional rock "narrative" form of music would seem to be a denial of the
                  power of music, putting the importance on the words. now there ARE Cindytalk
                  songs with words, and i get kinda frustrated when Sharp doesnt sing cos he's
                  one of my favourite voices. theres a double album called "In This World"
                  where even though i love his voice and his lyrics are great, the 2nd disc
                  which comprises almost entirely of improvised piano pieces is the one that
                  completely astounds me.


                  "I wonder what he means by 'noise poetry'."

                  he says this: "i have no desire to play the usual glitch/click/pop nonsense
                  or those macho-noise assaults.it's poetry i'm after,that and scoring
                  imaginery short films.i'll get there,just a bit further up the road and
                  round the corner.... "

                  poetry as opposed to the "usual" and "macho assaults". here he is describing
                  a gig.

                  "i'll be swimming heroically against the waves once more ;-P the sounds on
                  the night will be mostly breakcore,drum'n'bass and idm,i'll be plonked in
                  the middle doing a set of super slow and screechy noise-poetry.the music of
                  imaginary stars...drifting further and further out into space,attempting to
                  send signals home... hopefully it will be a short sonic "film".i'm also
                  hoping to use some "cornered film" footage.a skewed view of tarkovsky's
                  "stalker",where you only see fragments of what's actually on the screen. an
                  abstraction of sorts.should be interesting to see how it works in this
                  context.i saw two of the acts on the same bill last week in osaka... noize
                  creator's first 25 minutes was great,less breakcore and more his take on
                  dubstepish ideas and nicely funky.i danced.the second half of his set wasn't
                  so good,it got a bit more obvious,using crappy soundclips from what sounded
                  like an american b-movie (unlike my dead cool soundclips from artsy french
                  and russian films,erm...) and he ended up with that obligatory heavy metal
                  guitar thrash breakcore,much loved by mosh-pit boys of all ages.yawn."

                  "It sounds pretty brutal to me."

                  to me it sounds "Beautiful". although ive had my periods of being immersed
                  in noise. this is the thing thsat interests me about it. the USUAL idea with
                  someone making noise IS brutality. thats why i say that this is completely
                  different. perhaps we're so used to connecting noise with brutality that we
                  automatically assume. Jonnyboy saw it as more like "art" which is also
                  somethign we're used to :noise as art. noise as beauty maybe is harder to
                  comprehend. although im not presuming my interpretation is the "correct"
                  one. Jonnyboy is right when he says "art" cos this stuff is presented in an
                  "art" way, although theres more to it than that. "Brutal" is also correct
                  Cindytalk can be very brutal. and "beauty" is also correct. its interesting
                  how different people take out of it different things. cindytalk is however
                  ALL these things. (and more). a recurring theme in his career is the
                  juxtaposition of extremes and the collision of opposites.

                  "Not brutal like Tone's Solo for Wounded CD
                  (have you heard it?)"

                  no. sounds similar to Oval maybe whove made whole albums by wrecking CDs.?

                  "'Foray' feels like looking at a car wreck (although this wasn't
                  what cropped up in my imagination at the time). Even though there's a dead
                  baby lying face down on the road you can't help but look."

                  maybe an incredibly beautiful dead girl and youre repulsed by the horror but
                  filled by the beauty at the same time?

                  " To me it seems like a refined approach, "

                  hes been doing music since the late 70's so it IS refined.


                  "Worth another
                  visit."

                  if you wanna hear more check out http://www.touchedradio.com/1.htm
                  if you wanna know more about Sharp, this is the place:
                  http://of-ghosts-and-buildings.blogspot.com/

                  be warned though. he's a middle aged Scottish Transvestite. a Genius, yes.
                  but a middle aged scottish transvestite genius.



                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: systemsforum@yahoogroups.com
                  [mailto:systemsforum@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Chris McEvoy
                  Sent: 26 June 2006 02:53
                  To: systemsforum@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [systemsforum] is this music?


                  Its certainly very fertile. Tallis was the first thing that loaded for me,
                  and it engendered (can't think of a better word) some really amazing mental
                  images.

                  Is it music or noise? Well, I'm no authority... I consider every noise to be
                  music in potential. I liked it though, whatever it was. If life were a
                  stream, this guy would be swimming with the current.

                  As for meaning... Its pretty abstract, and I think thats reflected in the
                  style. I wonder what he means by 'noise poetry'. Perhaps there is some
                  tangible, direct meaning to it, poetry being somewhere between prose and
                  music right?

                  "wanted a fresh set of ears, cos to me this really IS so different
                  >from most noise stuff whoxs only concern usually is to brutalise and
                  >confuse
                  >the listener or even most avant-classical stuff which is usually overly
                  >technical or dry. this stuff is completely different i think. "soul" music
                  >indeed."

                  It sounds pretty brutal to me. Not brutal like Tone's Solo for Wounded CD
                  (have you heard it?) as in sonically brutal, but... musically brutal?
                  Torturous. 'Foray' feels like looking at a car wreck (although this wasn't
                  what cropped up in my imagination at the time). Even though there's a dead
                  baby lying face down on the road you can't help but look. Its very seductive
                  stuff.

                  " i think its music of the highest calibre and that the guy who
                  >did
                  > it is one of those musical genius people things"

                  Well, maybe. To me it seems like a refined approach, not 'totally
                  different'. Certainly a breath of fresh air amongst the smog. Worth another
                  visit.

                  >From: "crgn" <heathert.long@...>
                  >Reply-To: systemsforum@yahoogroups.com
                  >To: <systemsforum@yahoogroups.com>
                  >Subject: RE: [systemsforum] is this music?
                  >Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 22:39:10 +0100
                  >
                  >all music could technically bew described as noise. but i meant "noise" as
                  >in "meaningless" in this context. these are tracks from the forthcoming
                  >cindytalk album "the crackle of my soul". he calls what he's doing here
                  >"noise poetry". i suppose i was asking if there was any "meaning" conveyed.
                  >to me there is big style, but then im very familiar with the guys work
                  >anyway. wanted a fresh set of ears, cos to me this really IS so different
                  >from most noise stuff whoxs only concern usually is to brutalise and
                  >confuse
                  >the listener or even most avant-classical stuff which is usually overly
                  >technical or dry. this stuff is completely different i think. "soul" music
                  >indeed.
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: systemsforum@yahoogroups.com
                  >[mailto:systemsforum@yahoogroups.com]On
                  >Behalf Of livingstone
                  > Sent: 22 June 2006 02:38
                  > To: systemsforum@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [systemsforum] is this music?
                  >
                  >
                  > "Is this music or just noise?"
                  >
                  > It's both music and noise. I've listened to the four tracks twice now
                  >and
                  >I like it. "Tallis" is great.
                  > Nothing wrong with it whatsoever.
                  >
                  > Simple.
                  >
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: crgn
                  > To: Systemsforum
                  > Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 1:05 AM
                  > Subject: [systemsforum] is this music?
                  >
                  >
                  > http://www.myspace.com/signalfuries
                  >
                  > particularly Chris and Ian.
                  >
                  > listen to the songs on this page. is it music or just noise? and why?
                  > personally i think its music of the highest calibre and that the guy
                  >who
                  >did
                  > it is one of those musical genius people things.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >---------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  -
                  >
                  >
                  > No virus found in this incoming message.
                  > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                  > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/370 - Release Date:
                  >20/06/2006
                  >
                  >






                  Yahoo! Groups Links










                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                • Chris McEvoy
                  Its certainly very fertile. Tallis was the first thing that loaded for me, and it engendered (can t think of a better word) some really amazing mental images.
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jun 25, 2006
                    Its certainly very fertile. Tallis was the first thing that loaded for me,
                    and it engendered (can't think of a better word) some really amazing mental
                    images.

                    Is it music or noise? Well, I'm no authority... I consider every noise to be
                    music in potential. I liked it though, whatever it was. If life were a
                    stream, this guy would be swimming with the current.

                    As for meaning... Its pretty abstract, and I think thats reflected in the
                    style. I wonder what he means by 'noise poetry'. Perhaps there is some
                    tangible, direct meaning to it, poetry being somewhere between prose and
                    music right?

                    "wanted a fresh set of ears, cos to me this really IS so different
                    >from most noise stuff whoxs only concern usually is to brutalise and
                    >confuse
                    >the listener or even most avant-classical stuff which is usually overly
                    >technical or dry. this stuff is completely different i think. "soul" music
                    >indeed."

                    It sounds pretty brutal to me. Not brutal like Tone's Solo for Wounded CD
                    (have you heard it?) as in sonically brutal, but... musically brutal?
                    Torturous. 'Foray' feels like looking at a car wreck (although this wasn't
                    what cropped up in my imagination at the time). Even though there's a dead
                    baby lying face down on the road you can't help but look. Its very seductive
                    stuff.

                    " i think its music of the highest calibre and that the guy who
                    >did
                    > it is one of those musical genius people things"

                    Well, maybe. To me it seems like a refined approach, not 'totally
                    different'. Certainly a breath of fresh air amongst the smog. Worth another
                    visit.

                    >From: "crgn" <heathert.long@...>
                    >Reply-To: systemsforum@yahoogroups.com
                    >To: <systemsforum@yahoogroups.com>
                    >Subject: RE: [systemsforum] is this music?
                    >Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 22:39:10 +0100
                    >
                    >all music could technically bew described as noise. but i meant "noise" as
                    >in "meaningless" in this context. these are tracks from the forthcoming
                    >cindytalk album "the crackle of my soul". he calls what he's doing here
                    >"noise poetry". i suppose i was asking if there was any "meaning" conveyed.
                    >to me there is big style, but then im very familiar with the guys work
                    >anyway. wanted a fresh set of ears, cos to me this really IS so different
                    >from most noise stuff whoxs only concern usually is to brutalise and
                    >confuse
                    >the listener or even most avant-classical stuff which is usually overly
                    >technical or dry. this stuff is completely different i think. "soul" music
                    >indeed.
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: systemsforum@yahoogroups.com
                    >[mailto:systemsforum@yahoogroups.com]On
                    >Behalf Of livingstone
                    > Sent: 22 June 2006 02:38
                    > To: systemsforum@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [systemsforum] is this music?
                    >
                    >
                    > "Is this music or just noise?"
                    >
                    > It's both music and noise. I've listened to the four tracks twice now
                    >and
                    >I like it. "Tallis" is great.
                    > Nothing wrong with it whatsoever.
                    >
                    > Simple.
                    >
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: crgn
                    > To: Systemsforum
                    > Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 1:05 AM
                    > Subject: [systemsforum] is this music?
                    >
                    >
                    > http://www.myspace.com/signalfuries
                    >
                    > particularly Chris and Ian.
                    >
                    > listen to the songs on this page. is it music or just noise? and why?
                    > personally i think its music of the highest calibre and that the guy
                    >who
                    >did
                    > it is one of those musical genius people things.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    >
                    >
                    > No virus found in this incoming message.
                    > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                    > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/370 - Release Date:
                    >20/06/2006
                    >
                    >
                  • crgn
                    ha! almost. ... From: systemsforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:systemsforum@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of livingstone Sent: 30 June 2006 00:11 To:
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jun 28, 2006
                      ha! almost.
                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: systemsforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:systemsforum@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of livingstone
                      Sent: 30 June 2006 00:11
                      To: systemsforum@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [systemsforum] is this music?

                      Can I ask you - is THIS music?
                       
                       
                      I think it's very beautiful...
                       
                       
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: crgn
                      Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 5:23 AM
                      Subject: RE: [systemsforum] is this music?

                      interesting. you and Ian both picked out "tallis". this is what sharp says
                      about it. "there are a couple of sped-up hardcore tracks inside
                      TALLIS.sitting alongside a ponderous vaughan williams sample as bass
                      motion.fast/ slow/fast collision". "foray" and "flux planet" are the 2 from
                      the album.

                      "I consider every noise to be
                      music in potential."

                      mm. my definition of noise as opposed to "music", is that noise is something
                      random and unorganised and music is something that is made by a musician and
                      is something that the musician has orgtanised in order to put across a
                      certain feeling or expressiveness or whatever. thes tracks are made up of
                      noise but theyre organisation makes them music. whereas in this definition
                      someone sitting playing the guitar very badly and cliched i would see as
                      "noise". (ever heard a room full of teenage guitarists noodling between
                      songs? noise!). the difference is the expression or "soul" of the musician
                      or artist.

                      "As for meaning... Its pretty abstract, and I think thats reflected in the
                      style."

                      music is a pretty abstract medium though dont you think? expressing that
                      which cant be expressed in words etc. thats the strength of music. the
                      traditional rock "narrative" form of music would seem to be a denial of the
                      power of music, putting the importance on the words. now there ARE Cindytalk
                      songs with words, and i get kinda frustrated when Sharp doesnt sing cos he's
                      one of my favourite voices. theres a double album called "In This World"
                      where even though i love his voice and his lyrics are great, the 2nd disc
                      which comprises almost entirely of improvised piano pieces is the one that
                      completely astounds me.

                      "I wonder what he means by 'noise poetry'."

                      he says this: "i have no desire to play the usual glitch/click/ pop nonsense
                      or those macho-noise assaults.it' s poetry i'm after,that and scoring
                      imaginery short films.i'll get there,just a bit further up the road and
                      round the corner.... "

                      poetry as opposed to the "usual" and "macho assaults". here he is describing
                      a gig.

                      "i'll be swimming heroically against the waves once more ;-P the sounds on
                      the night will be mostly breakcore,drum' n'bass and idm,i'll be plonked in
                      the middle doing a set of super slow and screechy noise-poetry. the music of
                      imaginary stars...drifting further and further out into space,attempting to
                      send signals home... hopefully it will be a short sonic "film".i'm also
                      hoping to use some "cornered film" footage.a skewed view of tarkovsky's
                      "stalker",where you only see fragments of what's actually on the screen. an
                      abstraction of sorts.should be interesting to see how it works in this
                      context.i saw two of the acts on the same bill last week in osaka... noize
                      creator's first 25 minutes was great,less breakcore and more his take on
                      dubstepish ideas and nicely funky.i danced.the second half of his set wasn't
                      so good,it got a bit more obvious,using crappy soundclips from what sounded
                      like an american b-movie (unlike my dead cool soundclips from artsy french
                      and russian films,erm... ) and he ended up with that obligatory heavy metal
                      guitar thrash breakcore,much loved by mosh-pit boys of all ages.yawn."

                      "It sounds pretty brutal to me."

                      to me it sounds "Beautiful". although ive had my periods of being immersed
                      in noise. this is the thing thsat interests me about it. the USUAL idea with
                      someone making noise IS brutality. thats why i say that this is completely
                      different. perhaps we're so used to connecting noise with brutality that we
                      automatically assume. Jonnyboy saw it as more like "art" which is also
                      somethign we're used to :noise as art. noise as beauty maybe is harder to
                      comprehend. although im not presuming my interpretation is the "correct"
                      one. Jonnyboy is right when he says "art" cos this stuff is presented in an
                      "art" way, although theres more to it than that. "Brutal" is also correct
                      Cindytalk can be very brutal. and "beauty" is also correct. its interesting
                      how different people take out of it different things. cindytalk is however
                      ALL these things. (and more). a recurring theme in his career is the
                      juxtaposition of extremes and the collision of opposites.

                      "Not brutal like Tone's Solo for Wounded CD
                      (have you heard it?)"

                      no. sounds similar to Oval maybe whove made whole albums by wrecking CDs.?

                      "'Foray' feels like looking at a car wreck (although this wasn't
                      what cropped up in my imagination at the time). Even though there's a dead
                      baby lying face down on the road you can't help but look."

                      maybe an incredibly beautiful dead girl and youre repulsed by the horror but
                      filled by the beauty at the same time?

                      " To me it seems like a refined approach, "

                      hes been doing music since the late 70's so it IS refined.

                      "Worth another
                      visit."

                      if you wanna hear more check out http://www.touchedr adio.com/ 1.htm
                      if you wanna know more about Sharp, this is the place:
                      http://of-ghosts- and-buildings. blogspot. com/

                      be warned though. he's a middle aged Scottish Transvestite. a Genius, yes.
                      but a middle aged scottish transvestite genius.

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: systemsforum@ yahoogroups. com
                      [mailto:systemsforum@ yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of Chris McEvoy
                      Sent: 26 June 2006 02:53
                      To: systemsforum@ yahoogroups. com
                      Subject: RE: [systemsforum] is this music?

                      Its certainly very fertile. Tallis was the first thing that loaded for me,
                      and it engendered (can't think of a better word) some really amazing mental
                      images.

                      Is it music or noise? Well, I'm no authority... I consider every noise to be
                      music in potential. I liked it though, whatever it was. If life were a
                      stream, this guy would be swimming with the current.

                      As for meaning... Its pretty abstract, and I think thats reflected in the
                      style. I wonder what he means by 'noise poetry'. Perhaps there is some
                      tangible, direct meaning to it, poetry being somewhere between prose and
                      music right?

                      "wanted a fresh set of ears, cos to me this really IS so different
                      >from most noise stuff whoxs only concern usually is to brutalise and
                      >confuse
                      >the listener or even most avant-classical stuff which is usually overly
                      >technical or dry. this stuff is completely different i think. "soul" music
                      >indeed."

                      It sounds pretty brutal to me. Not brutal like Tone's Solo for Wounded CD
                      (have you heard it?) as in sonically brutal, but... musically brutal?
                      Torturous. 'Foray' feels like looking at a car wreck (although this wasn't
                      what cropped up in my imagination at the time). Even though there's a dead
                      baby lying face down on the road you can't help but look. Its very seductive
                      stuff.

                      " i think its music of the highest calibre and that the guy who
                      >did
                      > it is one of those musical genius people things"

                      Well, maybe. To me it seems like a refined approach, not 'totally
                      different'. Certainly a breath of fresh air amongst the smog. Worth another
                      visit.

                      >From: "crgn" <heathert.long@ ntlworld. com>
                      >Reply-To: systemsforum@ yahoogroups. com
                      >To: <systemsforum@ yahoogroups. com>
                      >Subject: RE: [systemsforum] is this music?
                      >Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 22:39:10 +0100
                      >
                      >all music could technically bew described as noise. but i meant "noise" as
                      >in "meaningless" in this context. these are tracks from the forthcoming
                      >cindytalk album "the crackle of my soul". he calls what he's doing here
                      >"noise poetry". i suppose i was asking if there was any "meaning" conveyed.
                      >to me there is big style, but then im very familiar with the guys work
                      >anyway. wanted a fresh set of ears, cos to me this really IS so different
                      >from most noise stuff whoxs only concern usually is to brutalise and
                      >confuse
                      >the listener or even most avant-classical stuff which is usually overly
                      >technical or dry. this stuff is completely different i think. "soul" music
                      >indeed.
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: systemsforum@ yahoogroups. com
                      >[mailto:systemsforum@ yahoogroups. com]On
                      >Behalf Of livingstone
                      > Sent: 22 June 2006 02:38
                      > To: systemsforum@ yahoogroups. com
                      > Subject: Re: [systemsforum] is this music?
                      >
                      >
                      > "Is this music or just noise?"
                      >
                      > It's both music and noise. I've listened to the four tracks twice now
                      >and
                      >I like it. "Tallis" is great.
                      > Nothing wrong with it whatsoever.
                      >
                      > Simple.
                      >
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: crgn
                      > To: Systemsforum
                      > Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 1:05 AM
                      > Subject: [systemsforum] is this music?
                      >
                      >
                      > http://www.myspace. com/signalfuries
                      >
                      > particularly Chris and Ian.
                      >
                      > listen to the songs on this page. is it music or just noise? and why?
                      > personally i think its music of the highest calibre and that the guy
                      >who
                      >did
                      > it is one of those musical genius people things.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >----------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --
                      -
                      >
                      >
                      > No virus found in this incoming message.
                      > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                      > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/370 - Release Date:
                      >20/06/2006
                      >
                      >

                      Yahoo! Groups Links


                      No virus found in this incoming message.
                      Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                      Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.4/375 - Release Date: 25/06/2006
                    • livingstone
                      Can I ask you - is THIS music? http://www.livingstonemusic.net/freedom-full.htm I think it s very beautiful... ... From: crgn To: systemsforum@yahoogroups.com
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jun 29, 2006
                        Can I ask you - is THIS music?
                         
                         
                        I think it's very beautiful...
                         
                         
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: crgn
                        Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 5:23 AM
                        Subject: RE: [systemsforum] is this music?

                        interesting. you and Ian both picked out "tallis". this is what sharp says
                        about it. "there are a couple of sped-up hardcore tracks inside
                        TALLIS.sitting alongside a ponderous vaughan williams sample as bass
                        motion.fast/ slow/fast collision". "foray" and "flux planet" are the 2 from
                        the album.

                        "I consider every noise to be
                        music in potential."

                        mm. my definition of noise as opposed to "music", is that noise is something
                        random and unorganised and music is something that is made by a musician and
                        is something that the musician has orgtanised in order to put across a
                        certain feeling or expressiveness or whatever. thes tracks are made up of
                        noise but theyre organisation makes them music. whereas in this definition
                        someone sitting playing the guitar very badly and cliched i would see as
                        "noise". (ever heard a room full of teenage guitarists noodling between
                        songs? noise!). the difference is the expression or "soul" of the musician
                        or artist.

                        "As for meaning... Its pretty abstract, and I think thats reflected in the
                        style."

                        music is a pretty abstract medium though dont you think? expressing that
                        which cant be expressed in words etc. thats the strength of music. the
                        traditional rock "narrative" form of music would seem to be a denial of the
                        power of music, putting the importance on the words. now there ARE Cindytalk
                        songs with words, and i get kinda frustrated when Sharp doesnt sing cos he's
                        one of my favourite voices. theres a double album called "In This World"
                        where even though i love his voice and his lyrics are great, the 2nd disc
                        which comprises almost entirely of improvised piano pieces is the one that
                        completely astounds me.

                        "I wonder what he means by 'noise poetry'."

                        he says this: "i have no desire to play the usual glitch/click/ pop nonsense
                        or those macho-noise assaults.it' s poetry i'm after,that and scoring
                        imaginery short films.i'll get there,just a bit further up the road and
                        round the corner.... "

                        poetry as opposed to the "usual" and "macho assaults". here he is describing
                        a gig.

                        "i'll be swimming heroically against the waves once more ;-P the sounds on
                        the night will be mostly breakcore,drum' n'bass and idm,i'll be plonked in
                        the middle doing a set of super slow and screechy noise-poetry. the music of
                        imaginary stars...drifting further and further out into space,attempting to
                        send signals home... hopefully it will be a short sonic "film".i'm also
                        hoping to use some "cornered film" footage.a skewed view of tarkovsky's
                        "stalker",where you only see fragments of what's actually on the screen. an
                        abstraction of sorts.should be interesting to see how it works in this
                        context.i saw two of the acts on the same bill last week in osaka... noize
                        creator's first 25 minutes was great,less breakcore and more his take on
                        dubstepish ideas and nicely funky.i danced.the second half of his set wasn't
                        so good,it got a bit more obvious,using crappy soundclips from what sounded
                        like an american b-movie (unlike my dead cool soundclips from artsy french
                        and russian films,erm... ) and he ended up with that obligatory heavy metal
                        guitar thrash breakcore,much loved by mosh-pit boys of all ages.yawn."

                        "It sounds pretty brutal to me."

                        to me it sounds "Beautiful". although ive had my periods of being immersed
                        in noise. this is the thing thsat interests me about it. the USUAL idea with
                        someone making noise IS brutality. thats why i say that this is completely
                        different. perhaps we're so used to connecting noise with brutality that we
                        automatically assume. Jonnyboy saw it as more like "art" which is also
                        somethign we're used to :noise as art. noise as beauty maybe is harder to
                        comprehend. although im not presuming my interpretation is the "correct"
                        one. Jonnyboy is right when he says "art" cos this stuff is presented in an
                        "art" way, although theres more to it than that. "Brutal" is also correct
                        Cindytalk can be very brutal. and "beauty" is also correct. its interesting
                        how different people take out of it different things. cindytalk is however
                        ALL these things. (and more). a recurring theme in his career is the
                        juxtaposition of extremes and the collision of opposites.

                        "Not brutal like Tone's Solo for Wounded CD
                        (have you heard it?)"

                        no. sounds similar to Oval maybe whove made whole albums by wrecking CDs.?

                        "'Foray' feels like looking at a car wreck (although this wasn't
                        what cropped up in my imagination at the time). Even though there's a dead
                        baby lying face down on the road you can't help but look."

                        maybe an incredibly beautiful dead girl and youre repulsed by the horror but
                        filled by the beauty at the same time?

                        " To me it seems like a refined approach, "

                        hes been doing music since the late 70's so it IS refined.

                        "Worth another
                        visit."

                        if you wanna hear more check out http://www.touchedr adio.com/ 1.htm
                        if you wanna know more about Sharp, this is the place:
                        http://of-ghosts- and-buildings. blogspot. com/

                        be warned though. he's a middle aged Scottish Transvestite. a Genius, yes.
                        but a middle aged scottish transvestite genius.

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: systemsforum@ yahoogroups. com
                        [mailto:systemsforum@ yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of Chris McEvoy
                        Sent: 26 June 2006 02:53
                        To: systemsforum@ yahoogroups. com
                        Subject: RE: [systemsforum] is this music?

                        Its certainly very fertile. Tallis was the first thing that loaded for me,
                        and it engendered (can't think of a better word) some really amazing mental
                        images.

                        Is it music or noise? Well, I'm no authority... I consider every noise to be
                        music in potential. I liked it though, whatever it was. If life were a
                        stream, this guy would be swimming with the current.

                        As for meaning... Its pretty abstract, and I think thats reflected in the
                        style. I wonder what he means by 'noise poetry'. Perhaps there is some
                        tangible, direct meaning to it, poetry being somewhere between prose and
                        music right?

                        "wanted a fresh set of ears, cos to me this really IS so different
                        >from most noise stuff whoxs only concern usually is to brutalise and
                        >confuse
                        >the listener or even most avant-classical stuff which is usually overly
                        >technical or dry. this stuff is completely different i think. "soul" music
                        >indeed."

                        It sounds pretty brutal to me. Not brutal like Tone's Solo for Wounded CD
                        (have you heard it?) as in sonically brutal, but... musically brutal?
                        Torturous. 'Foray' feels like looking at a car wreck (although this wasn't
                        what cropped up in my imagination at the time). Even though there's a dead
                        baby lying face down on the road you can't help but look. Its very seductive
                        stuff.

                        " i think its music of the highest calibre and that the guy who
                        >did
                        > it is one of those musical genius people things"

                        Well, maybe. To me it seems like a refined approach, not 'totally
                        different'. Certainly a breath of fresh air amongst the smog. Worth another
                        visit.

                        >From: "crgn" <heathert.long@ ntlworld. com>
                        >Reply-To: systemsforum@ yahoogroups. com
                        >To: <systemsforum@ yahoogroups. com>
                        >Subject: RE: [systemsforum] is this music?
                        >Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 22:39:10 +0100
                        >
                        >all music could technically bew described as noise. but i meant "noise" as
                        >in "meaningless" in this context. these are tracks from the forthcoming
                        >cindytalk album "the crackle of my soul". he calls what he's doing here
                        >"noise poetry". i suppose i was asking if there was any "meaning" conveyed.
                        >to me there is big style, but then im very familiar with the guys work
                        >anyway. wanted a fresh set of ears, cos to me this really IS so different
                        >from most noise stuff whoxs only concern usually is to brutalise and
                        >confuse
                        >the listener or even most avant-classical stuff which is usually overly
                        >technical or dry. this stuff is completely different i think. "soul" music
                        >indeed.
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: systemsforum@ yahoogroups. com
                        >[mailto:systemsforum@ yahoogroups. com]On
                        >Behalf Of livingstone
                        > Sent: 22 June 2006 02:38
                        > To: systemsforum@ yahoogroups. com
                        > Subject: Re: [systemsforum] is this music?
                        >
                        >
                        > "Is this music or just noise?"
                        >
                        > It's both music and noise. I've listened to the four tracks twice now
                        >and
                        >I like it. "Tallis" is great.
                        > Nothing wrong with it whatsoever.
                        >
                        > Simple.
                        >
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: crgn
                        > To: Systemsforum
                        > Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 1:05 AM
                        > Subject: [systemsforum] is this music?
                        >
                        >
                        > http://www.myspace. com/signalfuries
                        >
                        > particularly Chris and Ian.
                        >
                        > listen to the songs on this page. is it music or just noise? and why?
                        > personally i think its music of the highest calibre and that the guy
                        >who
                        >did
                        > it is one of those musical genius people things.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >----------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --
                        -
                        >
                        >
                        > No virus found in this incoming message.
                        > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                        > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/370 - Release Date:
                        >20/06/2006
                        >
                        >

                        Yahoo! Groups Links


                        No virus found in this incoming message.
                        Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                        Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.4/375 - Release Date: 25/06/2006
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