[Synoptic-L] response to Dr. Gibson regarding translation.
- Rick Richmond wrote (in response to Jeffrey Gibson):
My, I feel as though I am teaching a Greek class here.
Every time you challenge my translation without
speaking to me first you cause me to have to explain
all of this. If you really cared it would be
Now I am sure you will mince words with me as you have
always done. You are much more intersted in being
right than learning anything.
I'm sure that all of us on this list will be happy to
learn more Greek, but none of will appreciate being
condescended to if we raise questions.
From your remarks, I gather that you have had previous
disagreements with Jeffrey Gibson. Please consider
settling these differences elsewhere than on this
Ph.D., History, U.C. Berkeley
(Doctoral Thesis: "Food as Synecdoche in John's Gospel and Gnostic Texts")
M.A., History of Science, U.C. Berkeley
B.A., English Language and Literature, Baylor University
Assistant Professor Horace Jeffery Hodges
Department of English Language and Literature
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Dr. Sun-Ae Hwang and Dr. Horace Jeffery Hodges
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Synoptic-L Homepage: http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/synoptic-l
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- Apologies to anyone who receives this twice.
My, I feel as though I am teaching a Greek class here. Every time you challenge my translation without speaking to me first you cause me to have to explain all of this. If you really cared it would be different.I'm not sure what to make of your claim about my caring, etc., or that I should have "spoken to you first" before challenging your translation publicly. You posted to a discussion list, and therefore invited public responses.
Below I have listed the occcurances of Kathws Kata - hws in Mark, note it is never used to intoduce a quotation.At the risk of seeming to wish (again?) to "mince words" with you, and/or of being charged again with wishing more to be right than to learn, let me note that you missed Mk.14:21
Now I am sure you will mince words with me as you have always done. You are much more intersted in being right than learning anything.
RSV Mar 4:33 With many such parables he spoke the word to them, as kathws they were able to hear it;
RSV Mar 9:13 But I tell you that Elijah has come, and they did to him whatever they pleased, as kathws it is written of him."
RSV Mar 11:6 And they told them what (kathws just as would be a better translation here) Jesus had said; and they let them go. The idea is that they repeated Jesus' exact words
RSV Mar 14:16 And the disciples set out and went to the city, and found it as kathws again I prefer just as he had told them; and they prepared the passover.
RSV Mar 15:8 And the crowd came up and began to ask Pilate to do as kathws he was wont to do for them.
RSV Mar 16:7 But go, tell his disciples and Peter that he is going before you to Galilee; there you will see him, as kathws she told you."
these are all of the uses of Kathws in Mark you must be referring hws which is from a different matter all together. The do not have the prepositon Kata combined with hws.
And in any case, none of this really answers my question about why, given how KAQWS + GEGRAPTAI + citation (or its Hebrew counterpart) was used in as a citation formula in all other instances of its use elsewhere in the NT, other contemporaneous Greek literature, both biblical and secular, and in the DSS and Rabbinic literature, we should expect it to have been used differently by Mark when he employs the construction a Mk. 1:2.
Nor does it -- or anything you wrote which I snipped -- answer my question of whether you've ever found an instance in Koine of KAQWS + GEGRAPTAI + citation that did not function as a citation formula.
I'd be grateful if you'd give me your answers to these questions. How am I to learn if you don't answer what I asked?
Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon.)
1500 W. Pratt Blvd. #1
Chicago, IL 60626