Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

[Synoptic-L] Privately

Expand Messages
  • Jim West
    Well knowing that there is nothing new under the sun, I wonder if anyone knows of work done on the Markan phrase kat idian (privately). Jesus has a number
    Message 1 of 2 , May 26, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      Well knowing that there is nothing new under the sun, I wonder if anyone
      knows of work done on the Markan phrase "kat'idian" (privately). Jesus has
      a number of private conversations with his disciples. To what end
      (narratively speaking).

      Thanks

      Jim

      +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
      Dr Jim West
      Pastor, Petros Baptist Church
      http://biblical-studies.org Biblical Studies Resources
      http://biblical-studies.blogpspot.com Biblical Theology Weblog


      Synoptic-L Homepage: http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/synoptic-l
      List Owner: Synoptic-L-Owner@...
    • David Barrett Peabody
      ... ----- Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 23:31:55 +0000 From: David Barrett Peabody Reply-To: David Barrett Peabody
      Message 2 of 2 , May 30, 2004
      • 0 Attachment
        ----- Forwarded message from David Barrett Peabody
        <dbpeabody@...> -----
        Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 23:31:55 +0000
        From: David Barrett Peabody <dbpeabody@...>
        Reply-To: David Barrett Peabody <dbpeabody@...>
        Subject: Re: [Synoptic-L] Privately
        To: Jim West <jwest@...>

        Jim,

        As you, no doubt,know from consulting a concordance, the phrase, *kat'
        idian,* appears in Mk 4:34, 6:31-32, 7:33, 9:2, 9:28,and 13:3. A
        similar
        phrase, *kata monas,* which you might not so easily have found in a
        concordance, also appears at Mk 4:10. A typical, but seemingly
        redundant, Markan duality, *kat' idian monous,* appears at Mk 9:2.

        The uses of the similar phrases at Mk 4:10 and 9:28 are but parts of
        a significant Markan literary construction that is found four times
        in the gospel.

        These constructions are characterized by:
        Mk 4:10 relating back to Mk 4:1ff.
        Mk 7:17 relating back to Mk 7:14ff.
        Mk 9:28 relating back to Mk 9:14ff.
        and
        Mk 10:10 relating back to Mk 10:1ff.

        In all four of these literary contexts, Jesus is first depicted as
        either teaching or healing in public. Following this public
        activity,Jesus withdraws with his disciples privately, three of the
        four times into a house (Mk 7:17, 9:28 and 10:10). There, the disciples
        question Jesus about his public activity and Jesus provides them with
        esoteric teaching on the same subject as characterized his public
        activity.

        Wilhelm Wrede utilized these four literary contexts, Mk 4:10, 7:17,
        9:28
        and 10:10 as but one set of passages which he included in his case for
        a "Messianic Secret" in Mark.

        Whatever one may think about Wrede's theory of a Messianic Secret in
        Mark, it is a fact that Mark paints four almost identical scenes in his
        gospel about
        (1) Jesus teaching (or healing) in public, followed by
        (2) his withdrawal from public, usually into a house where
        (3) his disciples question him about his public activity and then
        (4) Jesus teaches his disciples something esoteric, related to his
        immediately previous public activity or teaching.

        The verbatim agreements that unite these four literary contexts in Mk
        are quite striking to me and confirm that we are in touch in these
        passages with the hand of the author of Mark with the
        highest degree of probability. I have laid out these verbal
        agreements in Table M of *Mark as Composer,* p. 158.

        Furthermore, in one of these same verses, Mk 10:10, one finds the
        equally Markan literary characteristic of the retrospective use of
        *palin*
        to unite two or more literary contexts in Mk. (*Mark as
        Composer, Table 70, pp. 56-57). One of the
        possible previous referents for the *palin* in Mk 10:10 and the one
        standing in the closest literary proximity to Mk 10:10 is Mk 9:28,
        which, in turn is one of your "privately" passages.

        Another possible previous referent for the *palin* at Mk 10:10 is Mk
        7:17, which does not contain *kat' idian,* but does contain an
        equivalent
        phrase, *apo tou oxlou,* meaning "away from the crowd," i. e.
        "privately." The phrase *apo tou oxlou* has the same meaning at Mk 7:33
        where it appears in an equally odd (redundant) dualistic construction,
        *apo tou oxlou kat' idian.*

        A third possible previous referent for the *palin* at Mk 10:10 is Mk
        4:10
        which contains the similar phrase, *kata monas.* (cf. another relevant
        Markan dualism, *kat' idian monous* at Mk 9:2.)

        Mk 4:33-34 also seems to me to constitute the closing member of an
        inclusio around the "parables chapter in Mk" that may begin at Mk 4:2.
        Again, there are verbal similarities between Mk 4:2 and 4:33-34 that
        confirm this conclusion and are displayed on p. 122 of *Mark as
        Composer.*

        Note also the interesting chiastic (and dualistic?) structure of Mk
        6:31-32.
        Mk 6:31, *kat' idian eis erhmon topon*
        Mk 6:32, *eis erhmon topon kat' idian*

        The scenes painted by two of your other *kat' idian* passages are also
        literarily depicted in similar language. Compare Mk 9:28 an 13:3. In
        both verses one finds *kai* + Genitive Absolute + *eis* + Name of Place
        +
        "disciples" + *kat' idian* + a Form of *eperwtaw* + *auton.* The Greek
        may be
        found "synoptically" displayed in Table 204 of *Mark as Composer,* p.
        101.

        In short, I think you have begun to get in touch with a significant
        layer of the hand of the author of Mark in these *kat' idian* passages.

        One of their literary functions, it seems to me, is to give the Markan
        narrative a sense of unity and flow which partly led scholars in the
        nineteenth century to conclude that Mark was the earliest gospel.

        On the contrary, in my opinion, all of the verses discussed above are
        part of a Markan *overlay* on the materials Mark borrowed from Mt and
        Lk. Often these verses have only partial parallels in Mt or Lk and some
        of them have no parallels at all.

        On the assumption of the Two Document Hypothesis, how is one to
        explain the absence of so much of this, very characteristic, Markan
        material from the gospels of Mt and Lk, on the assumption that they
        are independently utilizing Mark as a source? (cf. *One Gospel from Two*
        pp. 35-45 and Appendix 3. More Structual and Linguistic Elements of the
        Markan Overlay, pp. 383-388).

        David B. Peabody
        Professor of Religion
        Nebraska Wesleyan University
        Lincoln, NE


        Quoting Jim West <jwest@...>:

        > Well knowing that there is nothing new under the sun, I wonder if
        > anyone
        > knows of work done on the Markan phrase "kat'idian" (privately).
        > Jesus has
        > a number of private conversations with his disciples. To what end
        > (narratively speaking).
        >
        > Thanks
        >
        > Jim
        >
        > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        > Dr Jim West
        > Pastor, Petros Baptist Church
        > http://biblical-studies.org Biblical Studies Resources
        > http://biblical-studies.blogpspot.com Biblical Theology Weblog
        >
        >
        > Synoptic-L Homepage: http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/synoptic-l
        > List Owner: Synoptic-L-Owner@...
        >


        --
        David Barrett Peabody
        Professor of Religion
        Nebraska Wesleyan University
        5000 St. Paul Ave.
        Lincoln, NE 68504
        (402) 465-2302
        www.nebrwesleyan.edu/people/dbp


        ----- End forwarded message -----


        --
        David Barrett Peabody
        Professor of Religion
        Nebraska Wesleyan University
        5000 St. Paul Ave.
        Lincoln, NE 68504
        (402) 465-2302
        www.nebrwesleyan.edu/people/dbp


        Synoptic-L Homepage: http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/synoptic-l
        List Owner: Synoptic-L-Owner@...
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.