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Re: [Synoptic-L] The Zahn quote

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  • Stephen C. Carlson
    ... Forgive me for following up nearly two years after a post, but the only further information I ve been able to obtain about this is the following, in an
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 25, 2003
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      At 09:35 PM 4/26/01 +0200, Wieland Willker wrote:
      >Ok, ok, here is the footnote:
      >---------------------------------------
      >C.F.D. Schubart in seiner Charakteristik Ötingers bei Ehmann, Ötingers Leben und Briefe
      >(1859) S. 342 schreibt:
      >"Lasst uns zur Freundlichkeit gehen [Let us go to the kindness]", sprachen die
      >Zeitgenossen Jesu nach dem Zeugnis des Papias, wenn sie zu Christus gehn und ihn hören
      >wollten.
      >Woher stammt dies? [That means, Zahn does not know where the author got this quote.]
      >----------------------------------------
      >
      >Well who knows? Was Papias still available somewhere in 1850? Or is this just an
      >invention?

      Forgive me for following up nearly two years after a post, but the only
      further information I've been able to obtain about this is the following,
      in an on-line excerpt from a German commentary on Gal. 5:23 by Dora Rappard:

      The web page is at http://www.asamnet.de/~baumstef/Andachten/v/v06040.htm

      |D.Rappard
      |Die Frucht des Geistes ist ... Freundlichkeit.
      |Gal 5, 22.
      |Es ist erschienen die Freundlichkeit Gottes, unsres Heilandes.
      |Tit 3, 4.
      |
      |Eine Legende sagt, die Mitbürger Jesu hätten ihm während seiner
      |dreißigjährigen Wartezeit in Nazareth den Beinamen gegeben: Die
      |Freundlichkeit. Die Jünglinge aus den umliegenden Ortschaften hätten jeweils
      |an Festtagen gesagt: "Kommt, lasst uns heute zur "Freundlichkeit" gehen." Es
      |bedarf wahrlich solcher Legenden nicht um darzutun, wie freundlich Jesus
      |war. Wie hat er seine Freundlichkeit bewiesen an Kranken, Trauernden,
      |Schuldbeladenen, auch an den kleinen Kindern! Wie hat er der Welt so
      |wunderschön das Bild seines Vaters geoffenbart, von dem das Wort Gottes
      |ungezählte Male rühmt: Der Herr ist freundlich!

      Here, Rappard attributes the saying to a legend ("Legende"), not to Papias.
      I suspect that if Schubart and/or Oetinger really meant "Papias", it could
      be a reference to a dictionary by the 11th cen. Lombard Lexicographer, also
      called Papias (I think because he's from Pavia). One way to check, if
      Ehmann's book is hard to find, is to look up "benignitas" in Papias's
      dictionary.

      Stephen Carlson
      --
      Stephen C. Carlson mailto:scarlson@...
      Synoptic Problem Home Page http://www.mindspring.com/~scarlson/synopt/
      "Poetry speaks of aspirations, and songs chant the words." Shujing 2.35

      Synoptic-L Homepage: http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/synoptic-l
      List Owner: Synoptic-L-Owner@...
    • Wieland Willker
      Ah, I already thought that the Vatican has turned off this mailing list. ... This is a very interesting discovery Stephen! Now the question is from where the
      Message 2 of 6 , Jul 26, 2003
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        Ah, I already thought that the Vatican has turned off this mailing list.
        :-)

        This is a very interesting discovery Stephen!
        Now the question is from where the legend is. Who told it originally?
        Maybe you should spread the story a bit in the other newsgroups. Maybe
        somebody knows it? Possibly it is in some apocryphal gospel? Dora
        Rappard apparently has a more detailed version than Schubart.

        Best wishes
        Wieland
        <><
        ------------------------
        Wieland Willker, Bremen, Germany
        mailto:willker@...-bremen.de
        http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie/


        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Stephen C. Carlson [mailto:scarlson@...]
        > Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2003 7:29 AM
        > To: Wieland Willker; Synoptic-L
        > Subject: Re: [Synoptic-L] The Zahn quote
        >
        >
        > At 09:35 PM 4/26/01 +0200, Wieland Willker wrote:
        > >Ok, ok, here is the footnote:
        > >---------------------------------------
        > >C.F.D. Schubart in seiner Charakteristik Ötingers bei
        > Ehmann, Ötingers Leben und Briefe
        > >(1859) S. 342 schreibt:
        > >"Lasst uns zur Freundlichkeit gehen [Let us go to the
        > kindness]", sprachen die
        > >Zeitgenossen Jesu nach dem Zeugnis des Papias, wenn sie zu
        > Christus gehn und ihn hören
        > >wollten.
        > >Woher stammt dies? [That means, Zahn does not know where the
        > author got this quote.]
        > >----------------------------------------
        > >
        > >Well who knows? Was Papias still available somewhere in
        > 1850? Or is this just an
        > >invention?
        >
        > Forgive me for following up nearly two years after a post,
        > but the only
        > further information I've been able to obtain about this is
        > the following,
        > in an on-line excerpt from a German commentary on Gal. 5:23
        > by Dora Rappard:
        >
        > The web page is at
        > http://www.asamnet.de/~baumstef/Andachten/v/v06040.htm
        >
        >
        > |D.Rappard
        > |Die Frucht des Geistes ist ... Freundlichkeit.
        > |Gal 5, 22.
        > |Es ist erschienen die Freundlichkeit Gottes, unsres Heilandes.
        > |Tit 3, 4.
        > |
        > |Eine Legende sagt, die Mitbürger Jesu hätten ihm während seiner
        > |dreißigjährigen Wartezeit in Nazareth den Beinamen gegeben: Die
        > |Freundlichkeit. Die Jünglinge aus den umliegenden
        > Ortschaften hätten jeweils
        > |an Festtagen gesagt: "Kommt, lasst uns heute zur
        > "Freundlichkeit" gehen." Es
        > |bedarf wahrlich solcher Legenden nicht um darzutun, wie
        > freundlich Jesus
        > |war. Wie hat er seine Freundlichkeit bewiesen an Kranken,
        > Trauernden,
        > |Schuldbeladenen, auch an den kleinen Kindern! Wie hat er der Welt so
        > |wunderschön das Bild seines Vaters geoffenbart, von dem das
        > Wort Gottes
        > |ungezählte Male rühmt: Der Herr ist freundlich!
        >
        > Here, Rappard attributes the saying to a legend ("Legende"),
        > not to Papias.
        > I suspect that if Schubart and/or Oetinger really meant
        > "Papias", it could
        > be a reference to a dictionary by the 11th cen. Lombard
        > Lexicographer, also
        > called Papias (I think because he's from Pavia). One way to
        > check, if
        > Ehmann's book is hard to find, is to look up "benignitas" in Papias's
        > dictionary.
        >
        > Stephen Carlson
        > --
        > Stephen C. Carlson
        > mailto:scarlson@...
        > Synoptic Problem Home Page
        > http://www.mindspring.com/~scarlson/synopt/
        > "Poetry speaks of aspirations, and songs chant the words."
        > Shujing 2.35
        >


        Synoptic-L Homepage: http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/synoptic-l
        List Owner: Synoptic-L-Owner@...
      • Horace Jeffery Hodges
        ... http://www.asamnet.de/~baumstef/Andachten/v/v06040.htm There s a duplicate at: http://clv.de/_old/andachten/v06040.htm Jeffery Hodges ===== Professor
        Message 3 of 6 , Jul 26, 2003
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          Stephen C. Carlson wrote:

          > Forgive me for following up nearly two years after a
          > post, but the only
          > further information I've been able to obtain about
          > this is the following,
          > in an on-line excerpt from a German commentary on
          > Gal. 5:23 by Dora Rappard:
          >
          > The web page is at
          >
          http://www.asamnet.de/~baumstef/Andachten/v/v06040.htm

          There's a duplicate at:

          http://clv.de/_old/andachten/v06040.htm

          Jeffery Hodges

          =====
          Professor Horace Jeffery Hodges (Inv.) [Ph.D., U.C. Berkeley]
          Hanshin University (Korean Theological University)
          447-791 Kyunggido, Osan-City
          Yangsandong 411
          South Korea

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