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[Synoptic-L] Review of Stein

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  • Mark Goodacre
    Anyone else puzzled by the review of Stein on the latest SBL Review of Biblical Literature? The same review is presented twice, once under Mark Matson s name
    Message 1 of 7 , May 3, 2003
      Anyone else puzzled by the review of Stein on the latest SBL Review
      of Biblical Literature? The same review is presented twice, once
      under Mark Matson's name and once under David Dungan's:

      http://www.bookreviews.org/bookdetail.asp?TitleId=1478

      Mark -- have you joined forces with David? : ) If I were to do some
      literary analysis of author's style, I'd say this review was Mark's
      and that SBL have accidentally reproduced it twice, no?

      Mark
      -----------------------------
      Dr Mark Goodacre mailto:M.S.Goodacre@...
      Dept of Theology tel: +44 121 414 7512
      University of Birmingham fax: +44 121 414 4381
      Birmingham B15 2TT UK

      http://www.theology.bham.ac.uk/goodacre
      http://NTGateway.com


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    • Stephen C. Carlson
      ... That s what it really seems to be. I was reading it, and I noticed how odd it would be for Dungan to mention the Griesbach hypothesis only in passing and
      Message 2 of 7 , May 4, 2003
        Mark Goodacre <M.S.Goodacre@...> wrote:
        >Mark -- have you joined forces with David? : ) If I were to do some
        >literary analysis of author's style, I'd say this review was Mark's
        >and that SBL have accidentally reproduced it twice, no?

        That's what it really seems to be. I was reading it, and I noticed how odd it would be for Dungan to mention the Griesbach hypothesis only in passing and castigate Stein for neglecting the Farrer theory?

        Stephen Carlson
        (out-of-town, but still connected)

        --
        Stephen C. Carlson,
        mailto:scarlson@...
        "Poetry speaks of aspirations, and songs chant the words." Shujing 2.35

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      • David Barrett Peabody
        Right, Given the extensive verbatim agreements, one would have to conclude that there is some sort of literary dependence between these two documents. The
        Message 3 of 7 , May 4, 2003
          Right,

          Given the extensive verbatim agreements, one would have to conclude that
          there is some sort of literary dependence between these two documents.
          The question now is whether one has copied the other or whether both have
          made use of a common source. If the former, then one must utilize some
          reasonable criteria for determining the direction of literary dependence
          between Dungan and Matson, such as those suggested by Eduard Zeller in
          1843.

          I contacted the administration at RBL this morning, noting the verbal
          identities and asking the administrators to look into this literary
          puzzle and explain it and correct it, if necessary. In this instance, my
          working hypothesis is that we have a case of later electronic, scribal
          error of "cutting and pasting," rather than some actual literary
          relationship between the texts of the two original authors.

          David B. Peabody

          Quoting "John C. Poirier" <poirier@...>:

          > If you ask me, the extensive sequential agreements between Dungan
          > and
          > Matson show the use of a written source.
          >
          >
          > John C. Poirier
          > Middletown, Ohio
          >
          >
          > Mark Goodacre wrote:
          >
          > > Mark -- have you joined forces with David? : ) If I were to do
          > some
          > > literary analysis of author's style, I'd say this review was
          > Mark's
          > > and that SBL have accidentally reproduced it twice, no?
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Synoptic-L Homepage: http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/synoptic-l
          > List Owner: Synoptic-L-Owner@...
          >


          --
          David Barrett Peabody
          Professor of Religion
          Nebraska Wesleyan University
          5000 St. Paul Ave.
          Lincoln, NE 68504
          (402) 465-2302
          www.nebrwesleyan.edu/people/dbp


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        • Thomas R. W. Longstaff
          ... David, You take a step in the right direction when you recognize that the two might have made use of a common source. What you fail to recognize is that
          Message 4 of 7 , May 5, 2003
            > Right,
            >
            > Given the extensive verbatim agreements, one would have to
            > conclude that
            > there is some sort of literary dependence between these two
            > documents.
            > The question now is whether one has copied the other or
            > whether both have
            > made use of a common source. If the former, then one must
            > utilize some
            > reasonable criteria for determining the direction of literary
            > dependence
            > between Dungan and Matson, such as those suggested by Eduard
            > Zeller in
            > 1843.
            >
            > I contacted the administration at RBL this morning, noting the verbal
            > identities and asking the administrators to look into this literary
            > puzzle and explain it and correct it, if necessary. In this
            > instance, my
            > working hypothesis is that we have a case of later
            > electronic, scribal
            > error of "cutting and pasting," rather than some actual literary
            > relationship between the texts of the two original authors.
            >
            > David B. Peabody

            David,

            You take a step in the right direction when you recognize that the two
            might have made use of a common source. What you fail to recognize is
            that this is absolutely the best evidence that we have for the existence
            of Q. It proves, beyond a shadow of doubt, that that hypothetical
            document really existed! The problem is solved. Both Dungan and Matson
            used Q.

            Oh well, it IS Spring in Maine at last.

            Tom

            Dr. Thomas R. W. Longstaff
            Crawford Family Professor, Emeritus
            Department of Religious Studies
            Colby College
            4643 Mayflower Hill
            Waterville, ME 04901-8846
            Phone: (207) 872-6617
            FAX: (207) 872-3802



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          • Matson, Mark (Academic)
            One could, of course, claim divine inspiration on the part of both of us. Although I am not sure I felt very inspired when I wrote it. And of course David
            Message 5 of 7 , May 5, 2003
              One could, of course, claim divine inspiration on the part of both of us. Although I am not sure I felt very inspired when I wrote it. And of course David Dungan could have become highly sensitive to the Farrer theory.

              When I read Dungan's review, I thought "boy, that's a fairly cogent review!" Though it did sound vaguely familiar. :)

              But seriously I think some big mistake has been made at SBL in the posting of this. I hope David Dungan is not too embarrassed by having my review posted in his name! I have contacted SBL about the error.

              At least someone's reading these reviews.

              mark

              Mark A. Matson
              Academic Dean, Milligan College
              http://www.milligan.edu/Administrative/MMatson/personal.htm


              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Mark Goodacre [mailto:M.S.Goodacre@...]
              > Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 5:57 PM
              > To: Synoptic-L@...
              > Subject: [Synoptic-L] Review of Stein
              >
              >
              > Anyone else puzzled by the review of Stein on the latest SBL Review
              > of Biblical Literature? The same review is presented twice, once
              > under Mark Matson's name and once under David Dungan's:
              >
              > http://www.bookreviews.org/bookdetail.asp?TitleId=1478
              >
              > Mark -- have you joined forces with David? : ) If I were to do some
              > literary analysis of author's style, I'd say this review was Mark's
              > and that SBL have accidentally reproduced it twice, no?
              >
              > Mark
              > -----------------------------
              > Dr Mark Goodacre mailto:M.S.Goodacre@...
              > Dept of Theology tel: +44 121 414 7512
              > University of Birmingham fax: +44 121 414 4381
              > Birmingham B15 2TT UK
              >
              > http://www.theology.bham.ac.uk/goodacre
              > http://NTGateway.com
              >
              >
              > Synoptic-L Homepage: http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/synoptic-l
              > List Owner: Synoptic-L-Owner@...
              >
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            • John C. Poirier
              If you ask me, the extensive sequential agreements between Dungan and Matson show the use of a written source. John C. Poirier Middletown, Ohio ... Synoptic-L
              Message 6 of 7 , May 5, 2003
                If you ask me, the extensive sequential agreements between Dungan and
                Matson show the use of a written source.


                John C. Poirier
                Middletown, Ohio


                Mark Goodacre wrote:

                > Mark -- have you joined forces with David? : ) If I were to do some
                > literary analysis of author's style, I'd say this review was Mark's
                > and that SBL have accidentally reproduced it twice, no?




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                List Owner: Synoptic-L-Owner@...
              • Horace Jeffery Hodges
                Thomas R. W. Longstaff wrote: [T]his is absolutely the best evidence that we have for the existence of Q. It proves, beyond a shadow of doubt, that that
                Message 7 of 7 , May 5, 2003
                  Thomas R. W. Longstaff wrote:

                  "[T]his is absolutely the best evidence that we have
                  for the existence of Q. It proves, beyond a shadow of
                  doubt, that that hypothetical document really existed!
                  The problem is solved. Both Dungan and Matson
                  used Q."

                  John C. Poirier wrote:

                  "[T]he extensive sequential agreements between Dungan
                  and Matson show the use of a written source."

                  So, we have scholarly consensus. I guess that clinches
                  it. Harnack, Luhrmann, and Kloppenborg (et al.) are
                  all correct -- Q existed and was a written document.

                  Jeffery Hodges

                  =====
                  Professor Horace Jeffery Hodges (Inv.) [Ph.D., U.C. Berkeley]
                  Hanshin University (Korean Theological University)
                  447-791 Kyunggido, Osan-City
                  Yangsandong 411
                  South Korea

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