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[Synoptic-L] un livre nouveau

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  • Maluflen@aol.com
    Since everything French is so popular these days, I wondered has anyone seen a book by Etienne Nodet (Cerf: Paris 2002), entitled Le Fils de Dieu. Procès de
    Message 1 of 7 , Mar 12, 2003
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      Since everything French is so popular these days, I wondered has anyone seen a book by Etienne Nodet (Cerf: Paris 2002), entitled "Le Fils de Dieu. Procès de Jésus et Evangiles", supporting an equally popular Synoptic source theory? I would be most interested to hear more about the book if anyone has read it.

      Dr. Leonard Maluf
      Blessed John XXIII National Seminary
      Tel.: 617-926-2387
    • Jim West
      ... no- but if it is as brilliant as his book on christian origins then its a must read. (now i have to track it down on amazon.fr and get it.... you guys
      Message 2 of 7 , Mar 12, 2003
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        At 05:46 PM 3/12/03 -0500, you wrote:
        >Since everything French is so popular these days, I wondered has anyone seen
        >a book by Etienne Nodet (Cerf: Paris 2002), entitled "Le Fils de Dieu. Procès
        >de Jésus et Evangiles", supporting an equally popular Synoptic source theory?
        >I would be most interested to hear more about the book if anyone has read it.

        no- but if it is as brilliant as his book on christian origins then its a
        must read.

        (now i have to track it down on amazon.fr and get it.... you guys with your
        book notices will be my financial ruin one day.) ;-)

        best

        jim

        +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

        Jim West, ThD

        Biblical Studies Resources
        http://web.infoave.net/~jwest


        Synoptic-L Homepage: http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/synoptic-l
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      • John Lupia
        P. Étienne Nodet, O.P., il est sur le faculté de École biblique et archéologique française de Jérusalem depuis 1977. Nodet entreprend recherche
        Message 3 of 7 , Mar 12, 2003
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          P. �tienne Nodet, O.P., il est sur le facult� de �cole
          biblique et arch�ologique fran�aise de J�rusalem
          depuis 1977.

          Nodet entreprend recherche historique examinant
          nouveau le probl�me synoptique dans de contexte
          pr�-Markan. Il �tudie le titre: le fils de Dieu" en
          lieu de Qumran et des �critures de non-Chr�tien sur
          J�sus et son post�rit� o� il conclut la possibilit�
          que les evangiles sont le r�sultat d'un
          christianization de la biographie de J�sus.

          Nodet undertakes an historical investigation
          re-examining the Synoptic Problem in a pre- Markan
          context, (he�s a 2 Source Theorist) and to study the
          title �Son of God" in lieu of Qumran and the
          non-Christian writings on Jesus and his posterity
          where he concludes/considers the possibility that the
          Gospels are the result of a Christianization of the
          biography of Jesus.

          cordialement,
          Jean


          =====
          John N. Lupia, III
          31 Norwich Drive
          Toms River, New Jersey 08757 USA
          Phone: (732) 341-8689
          Email: jlupia2@...
          Editor, Roman Catholic News
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Roman-Catholic-News

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        • Maluflen@aol.com
          In a message dated 3/12/2003 5:20:09 PM Pacific Standard Time, ... Are you sure of this, John? I heard from a French scholar and theologian whom I am inclined
          Message 4 of 7 , Mar 12, 2003
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            In a message dated 3/12/2003 5:20:09 PM Pacific Standard Time, jlupia2@... writes:


            Nodet undertakes an historical investigation
            re-examining the Synoptic Problem in a pre- Markan
            context, (he’s a 2 Source Theorist) and to study the
            title “Son of God" in lieu of Qumran and the
            non-Christian writings on Jesus and his posterity
            where he concludes/considers the possibility that the
            Gospels are the result of a Christianization of the
            biography of Jesus.


            Are you sure of this, John? I heard from a French scholar and theologian whom I am inclined to trust that Nodet endorses the Griesbach hypothesis in this book. I'll see if I can find it tomorrow at the Weston library. Perhaps my scholar friend read too fast? Perhaps Jim West knows the answer since he has read his earlier book, which I believe is available in English from Liturgical Press.

            Dr. Leonard Maluf
            Blessed John XXIII National Seminary
            617-926-2387
          • Emmanuel Fritsch
            ... See below the french original of the abstract, where 2 source theory is not quoted as a position of Nodet, but as a general background of synoptic
            Message 5 of 7 , Mar 13, 2003
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              Leonard asked :
              > Nodet undertakes an historical investigation
              > re-examining the Synoptic Problem in a pre- Markan
              > context, (heâ??s a 2 Source Theorist) and to study the
              > title â??Son of God" in lieu of Qumran and the
              > non-Christian writings on Jesus and his posterity
              > where he concludes/considers the possibility that the
              > Gospels are the result of a Christianization of the
              > biography of Jesus.
              >
              > Are you sure of this, John? I heard from a French scholar and
              > theologian whom I am inclined to trust that Nodet endorses the
              > Griesbach hypothesis in this book. I'll see if I can find it
              > tomorrow at the Weston library. Perhaps my scholar friend read
              > too fast? Perhaps Jim West knows the answer since he has read
              > his earlier book, which I believe is available in English from
              > Liturgical Press.


              See below the french original of the abstract, where 2 source
              theory is not quoted as a position of Nodet, but as a general
              background of synoptic research, that Nodet aims to challenge.
              English version looks as a bad translation. John, did you find
              it on the net ?

              About the earlier book : According all probabilities, Leonard, you
              and Jim West were speaking about the book writen in collaboration
              with J. Taylor, whose translation in effect has been published by
              Liturgical Press. The EBAF (Ecole Biblique) bibliography gives
              publishers for all english translations of his books (link below).


              > Étienne Nodet se livre à une enquête historique qui l'amène
              > à réexaminer la question synoptique (antériorité de l'évangile
              > de Marc, théorie des deux sources) et à étudier le titre de
              > « fils de Dieu ». Qumrân et les écrits non chrétiens sur Jésus
              > et sa postérité sont instructifs : ils permettent de voir que
              > les évangiles sont le résultat d'une christianisation de la
              > biographie de Jésus.

              http://www.editionsducerf.fr/html/fiche/fichelivre.asp?N_LIV_CERF=5636

              other pages :
              http://ebaf.op.org/wsw/fr/nodet.html
              http://www.editionsducerf.fr/html/fiche/ficheauteur.asp?n_aut=1168
              http://www.editionsducerf.fr/html/fiche/fichelivre.asp?n_liv_cerf=1361
              http://www.editionsducerf.fr/html/fiche/fichelivre.asp?n_liv_cerf=594

              a+
              manu

              Synoptic-L Homepage: http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/synoptic-l
              List Owner: Synoptic-L-Owner@...
            • John Lupia
              Emmanuel Fritsch : See below the french original of the abstract, where 2 source theory is not quoted as a position of Nodet, but as a general background of
              Message 6 of 7 , Mar 13, 2003
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                Emmanuel Fritsch :
                See below the french original of the abstract, where 2
                source theory is not quoted as a position of Nodet,
                but as a general background of synoptic research, that
                Nodet aims to challenge. English version looks as a
                bad translation. John, did you find it on the net ?

                My Dear Emmanuel:
                I realize you may be unaware of the implications of
                what you say here in English, so I will clarify this
                for you and my dear Leonard. I have been in
                discussion with Fr. Nodet about his thesis since I
                have a great passion for the �cole biblique et
                arch�ologique fran�aise de J�rusalem ever since their
                publication of the Jerusalem Bible, a magnificent
                undertaking. The �cole biblique is a magnificent
                biblical academy, and the Dominican priests are among
                the finest scholars on earth. So, let me share with
                you what our dear Fr. Nodet has told me. Below is a
                direct copy of a private correspondence he sent me
                regarding his particular view, which you will note is
                highly colored, shaped and formed by Markan priority.
                His Griesbachian position is murky as is his Two
                Source position. It is as if he subscribes to both and
                is ambivalent as you will see reading his own
                testimony about his thinking.

                Voici une noted de P. Nodet:

                Here is a short outline of my method.

                The main point is that (1) the divinization of Jesus
                is NOT a Greek development and (2) on the contrary the
                first Christians wanted to stress that he was a real
                man, so that the passion was a real event.

                The way or reasoning is as follows:

                1-A study of the synoptic narrative of the passion
                shows that Mk mixes up the Jewish institutions more
                than the others, and more generally that looks farther
                than the 3 others from Jewish realities.

                2-Hence a query about the 2-source theory; the
                conclusion (quite obvious, I think...) is that it
                wants a serious proof.

                3-John is the closest to historical facts and Jewish
                realities (including the divinization of Jesus, hence
                a trip through Josephus, Qumran, etc. as against
                rabbinic tradition)

                4-Thus, the synoptic Narrative of the passion is a
                literary device, which includes a Christianization of
                Passover, which has some consequences upon the last
                supper (the unleavened bread of the eucharist was
                introduced centuries later...)

                NB I rely heavily upon the Slavonic version of
                Josephus' war, of which an English translation has
                just been published by Brill.

                As for you question, I do think that Griesbach is
                better than the two-source, though it is far from
                solving everything. The very fact that Mk has only a
                few teachings of Jesus indicates IMHO that it is more
                Christian! (For Christianity - contrary to any Jesus
                movement - never came from Jesus' teachings).

                So far. Sincerely,

                --


                Etienne Nodet, op, Ecole Biblique, POB 19053,
                Jerusalem Israel
                Tel +972 2 6264468 (ext. 242), fax
                ...6282567
                http://ebaf.op.org




                With very warm regards,
                John


                =====
                John N. Lupia, III
                31 Norwich Drive
                Toms River, New Jersey 08757 USA
                Phone: (732) 341-8689
                Email: jlupia2@...
                Editor, Roman Catholic News
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Roman-Catholic-News

                __________________________________________________
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              • Emmanuel Fritsch
                ... Am sorry, I do not understand what is bad in my comment. Berhabs should I have said a general background of synoptic research, that Nodet may challenge,
                Message 7 of 7 , Mar 13, 2003
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                  John Lupia a écrit :
                  >
                  > Emmanuel Fritsch :
                  > See below the french original of the abstract, where 2
                  > source theory is not quoted as a position of Nodet,
                  > but as a general background of synoptic research, that
                  > Nodet aims to challenge. English version looks as a
                  > bad translation. John, did you find it on the net ?
                  >
                  > My Dear Emmanuel:
                  > I realize you may be unaware of the implications of
                  > what you say here in English, so I will clarify this
                  > for you and my dear Leonard.

                  Am sorry, I do not understand what is bad in my comment.
                  Berhabs should I have said "a general background of synoptic
                  research, that Nodet may challenge, or not".

                  But no matter.

                  Am happy to see we share a same admiration for EBAF,
                  its production and its scholars.

                  a+
                  manu

                  Synoptic-L Homepage: http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/synoptic-l
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