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Re: [Synoptic-L] a couple of things

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  • John Lupia
    ... To characterize GThom as a Gnostic redaction of authentic logia is to go in the wrong direction since Gnostics believe in spirits but deviated from
    Message 1 of 3 , Mar 8, 2003
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      Jim West:

      > is it possible that we do in fact have an early copy
      > of Q in the gospel of
      > thomas (with gnostic redaction)?

      To characterize GThom as a Gnostic redaction of
      authentic logia is to go in the wrong direction since
      Gnostics believe in spirits but deviated from orthodox
      views on them and religion in general and held
      syncretic views that were untenable and repulsive to
      an orthodox believer. Rather, GThom is a cacographic
      record of some logia and circulating stories about
      Jesus during his lifetime that are recast in Epicurean
      thought. The identification of these is simple by
      comparing the keywords and ideas and content of each
      logion or narrative to those of the canonical Gospels.


      The canonical Gospels contain the original
      unadulterated logia and narratives that have been cast
      into the style and literary structure of each
      Evangelist (see the 10 Types of pre-Gospel documents
      they used, each with their various editorial layering
      by type) in order to express and communicate the
      essential message while simultaneously conveying
      profound theological truths.

      The existence of GThom testifies to the authenticity
      of the logia and narrative accounts that we find in
      the canonical texts (external evidence) while
      supplying us with a windfall of information regarding
      the historical context of the Jerusalem Sanhedrin,
      religio-political climate, and their relationship to
      the historical Jesus or Sitz im Leben Jesu. Each
      side: the Sanhedrin and the Church had their own
      records.

      Luke was commissioned by the Church to refute the
      cacographic record both written and oral circulating
      propaganda by setting the record straight in an
      official document the Church would stand behind. The
      editorial review of Luke�s Gospel by apostles that
      approved the final draft of the text for publication
      in the form we have received it also confirms that
      they were not present during the trial or crucifixion
      since Luke�s version lacked essential details (no
      scourging, crowning with thorns, or carrying of the
      cross) that were supplied by John when he wrote his
      account that also affirmed that he was the only one
      among them who was present. Further, the narratives
      lacking in Luke that emerge in John, Matthew and Mark
      reveal that the apostles and other eyewitnesses over
      time were able to provide a fuller and more complete
      account of teachings and events that were considered
      essential to convey the core of Jesus� teaching and
      the theological truths each Christian should know
      (deposit of faith).

      The original Gospel served to properly inform the
      Jerusalem High Priest Theophilus that there was
      nothing heretical, scandalous, or threatening about
      the Church and their kerygma while apologetically
      attempting to demonstrate to him that Jesus was the
      expected Messiah. Simultaneously, copies of this
      Gospel were dispersed throughout the regions so that a
      consistency and uniformity to Christian education and
      formation could be achieved while supplying each
      bishop and their clergy with a sacred text they could
      use in preaching, teaching and in lectionary readings
      at liturgy. In the same manner as each subsequent
      Gospel was composed, approved, copied and dispersed
      the Church used all of them together with the corpus
      of circulating epistles written by bishops who were
      either in absentia or wishing to communicate to
      ecclesiastical communities in order to maintain
      solidarity, offer exhortation, apostolic blessing,
      guidance and disciplinary correction. Over the past
      two millennia this form is attested to consistently in
      an unbroken chain.

      With best regards,
      John


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      John N. Lupia, III
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    • Stephen C. Carlson
      ... No, because the contents, sequence, and genre of Thomas do not match we understand to be Q. Furthermore, Stephen J. Patterson couldn t find any of Q
      Message 2 of 3 , Mar 8, 2003
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        At 04:06 PM 3/8/03 -0500, Jim West wrote:
        >is it possible that we do in fact have an early copy of Q in the gospel of
        >thomas (with gnostic redaction)?

        No, because the contents, sequence, and genre of Thomas do not
        match we understand to be Q. Furthermore, Stephen J. Patterson
        couldn't find any of Q redaction in Thomas.

        Stephen Carlson
        --
        Stephen C. Carlson mailto:scarlson@...
        Synoptic Problem Home Page http://www.mindspring.com/~scarlson/synopt/
        "Poetry speaks of aspirations, and songs chant the words." Shujing 2.35

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