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[Synoptic-L] a couple of things

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  • Jim West
    first- listers may be interested in a new journal - the journal for the study of the historical jesus
    Message 1 of 3 , Mar 8, 2003
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      first- listers may be interested in a new journal - the journal for the
      study of the historical jesus
      http://www.continuumjournals.com/journals/index.asp?jref=31

      second- i have a profoundly stupid question for which i beg your forgiveness...

      is it possible that we do in fact have an early copy of Q in the gospel of
      thomas (with gnostic redaction)?

      thanks for your verbal flogging which i expect forthwith... ;-)

      jim

      +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

      Jim West, ThD

      Biblical Studies Resources
      http://web.infoave.net/~jwest


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    • John Lupia
      ... To characterize GThom as a Gnostic redaction of authentic logia is to go in the wrong direction since Gnostics believe in spirits but deviated from
      Message 2 of 3 , Mar 8, 2003
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        Jim West:

        > is it possible that we do in fact have an early copy
        > of Q in the gospel of
        > thomas (with gnostic redaction)?

        To characterize GThom as a Gnostic redaction of
        authentic logia is to go in the wrong direction since
        Gnostics believe in spirits but deviated from orthodox
        views on them and religion in general and held
        syncretic views that were untenable and repulsive to
        an orthodox believer. Rather, GThom is a cacographic
        record of some logia and circulating stories about
        Jesus during his lifetime that are recast in Epicurean
        thought. The identification of these is simple by
        comparing the keywords and ideas and content of each
        logion or narrative to those of the canonical Gospels.


        The canonical Gospels contain the original
        unadulterated logia and narratives that have been cast
        into the style and literary structure of each
        Evangelist (see the 10 Types of pre-Gospel documents
        they used, each with their various editorial layering
        by type) in order to express and communicate the
        essential message while simultaneously conveying
        profound theological truths.

        The existence of GThom testifies to the authenticity
        of the logia and narrative accounts that we find in
        the canonical texts (external evidence) while
        supplying us with a windfall of information regarding
        the historical context of the Jerusalem Sanhedrin,
        religio-political climate, and their relationship to
        the historical Jesus or Sitz im Leben Jesu. Each
        side: the Sanhedrin and the Church had their own
        records.

        Luke was commissioned by the Church to refute the
        cacographic record both written and oral circulating
        propaganda by setting the record straight in an
        official document the Church would stand behind. The
        editorial review of Luke�s Gospel by apostles that
        approved the final draft of the text for publication
        in the form we have received it also confirms that
        they were not present during the trial or crucifixion
        since Luke�s version lacked essential details (no
        scourging, crowning with thorns, or carrying of the
        cross) that were supplied by John when he wrote his
        account that also affirmed that he was the only one
        among them who was present. Further, the narratives
        lacking in Luke that emerge in John, Matthew and Mark
        reveal that the apostles and other eyewitnesses over
        time were able to provide a fuller and more complete
        account of teachings and events that were considered
        essential to convey the core of Jesus� teaching and
        the theological truths each Christian should know
        (deposit of faith).

        The original Gospel served to properly inform the
        Jerusalem High Priest Theophilus that there was
        nothing heretical, scandalous, or threatening about
        the Church and their kerygma while apologetically
        attempting to demonstrate to him that Jesus was the
        expected Messiah. Simultaneously, copies of this
        Gospel were dispersed throughout the regions so that a
        consistency and uniformity to Christian education and
        formation could be achieved while supplying each
        bishop and their clergy with a sacred text they could
        use in preaching, teaching and in lectionary readings
        at liturgy. In the same manner as each subsequent
        Gospel was composed, approved, copied and dispersed
        the Church used all of them together with the corpus
        of circulating epistles written by bishops who were
        either in absentia or wishing to communicate to
        ecclesiastical communities in order to maintain
        solidarity, offer exhortation, apostolic blessing,
        guidance and disciplinary correction. Over the past
        two millennia this form is attested to consistently in
        an unbroken chain.

        With best regards,
        John


        =====
        John N. Lupia, III
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        Toms River, New Jersey 08757 USA
        Phone: (732) 341-8689
        Email: jlupia2@...
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      • Stephen C. Carlson
        ... No, because the contents, sequence, and genre of Thomas do not match we understand to be Q. Furthermore, Stephen J. Patterson couldn t find any of Q
        Message 3 of 3 , Mar 8, 2003
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          At 04:06 PM 3/8/03 -0500, Jim West wrote:
          >is it possible that we do in fact have an early copy of Q in the gospel of
          >thomas (with gnostic redaction)?

          No, because the contents, sequence, and genre of Thomas do not
          match we understand to be Q. Furthermore, Stephen J. Patterson
          couldn't find any of Q redaction in Thomas.

          Stephen Carlson
          --
          Stephen C. Carlson mailto:scarlson@...
          Synoptic Problem Home Page http://www.mindspring.com/~scarlson/synopt/
          "Poetry speaks of aspirations, and songs chant the words." Shujing 2.35

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