Re: How Luke used Matthew and Mark, and GOT origin
- Antonio Jerez wrote:
>>>My point of view is that Mark is the first gospel written,Paul Miller replied:
>>>Matthew later used Mark and even later Luke used both Mark and
> This sits well with Occam's razor. There being no source ,(Q), documentI agree about using Occam's razor as much as possible.
>other than Mark also pleases the Razor. In my view the added material in
>Matthew and Luke amounts to agenda driven literary elaboration and
>redaction. John is late and deals with the ( Christ ), and early church
>burgeoning theology. We can learn much from these documents, but IMO
>Mark is primary, the other gospels secondary. Mark is the earliest
>cleanest gospel record of Jesus.
I see little need to start multiplying a lot of hypothetical
documents to explain the phenomena in the synoptics.
Much of the extra material in Matthew and Luke was written
by the authors themselves. I think it is time to take into
consideration the creativity of the evangelists and not smell
a special source as soon as Matthew or Luke come up with
> In so saying I would like to point out that the GOT is a late documentI agree that Thomas is a relatively late document. I would
>in my view, but when the writer sat down to compose the GOT I believe he
>had before him several very early sayings of Jesus. These few early
>sayings were not enough for a document themselves, but could have been
>enough to want to preserve them in a larger late document written partly
>for that reason. Sayings like # 12 " The followers said to Jesus, We
>know that you are going to leave us. Who will be our leader? Jesus said
>to them, No matter where you are you are to go to James the Just, for
>whose sake heaven and earth came into being." This and a few other early
>sayings of Jesus I believe formed a nucleus around which a later Thomas
>could be built.
guess around 100-150. Where I appear to differ with Paul
Miller is if the redactor of Thomas had access to a lot of
independent Jesus sayings. I think not. My inclination is that
Thomas mostly used Matthew and Luke to construct his sayings with
proto-gnostic inclinations. I even think the author of Thomas knew
and used 1 Corinthians. I doubt very much that logion 12 goes back
in any way to the historical Jesus. James the Just appears to
have been a cult figure in later gnostic circles. Just like with Mary
Magdalene you could use these wellknown figures to market
your gnostic ideas through special heavenly revelations.