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Re: How Luke used Matthew and Mark, and GOT origin

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  • Antonio Jerez
    ... I agree about using Occam s razor as much as possible. I see little need to start multiplying a lot of hypothetical documents to explain the phenomena in
    Message 1 of 2 , Feb 19, 1998
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      Antonio Jerez wrote:

      >>>My point of view is that Mark is the first gospel written,
      >>>Matthew later used Mark and even later Luke used both Mark and
      >>>Matthew.


      Paul Miller replied:
      > This sits well with Occam's razor. There being no source ,(Q), document
      >other than Mark also pleases the Razor. In my view the added material in
      >Matthew and Luke amounts to agenda driven literary elaboration and
      >redaction. John is late and deals with the ( Christ ), and early church
      >burgeoning theology. We can learn much from these documents, but IMO
      >Mark is primary, the other gospels secondary. Mark is the earliest
      >cleanest gospel record of Jesus.

      I agree about using Occam's razor as much as possible.
      I see little need to start multiplying a lot of hypothetical
      documents to explain the phenomena in the synoptics.
      Much of the extra material in Matthew and Luke was written
      by the authors themselves. I think it is time to take into
      consideration the creativity of the evangelists and not smell
      a special source as soon as Matthew or Luke come up with
      something new.

      > In so saying I would like to point out that the GOT is a late document
      >in my view, but when the writer sat down to compose the GOT I believe he
      >had before him several very early sayings of Jesus. These few early
      >sayings were not enough for a document themselves, but could have been
      >enough to want to preserve them in a larger late document written partly
      >for that reason. Sayings like # 12 " The followers said to Jesus, We
      >know that you are going to leave us. Who will be our leader? Jesus said
      >to them, No matter where you are you are to go to James the Just, for
      >whose sake heaven and earth came into being." This and a few other early
      >sayings of Jesus I believe formed a nucleus around which a later Thomas
      >could be built.

      I agree that Thomas is a relatively late document. I would
      guess around 100-150. Where I appear to differ with Paul
      Miller is if the redactor of Thomas had access to a lot of
      independent Jesus sayings. I think not. My inclination is that
      Thomas mostly used Matthew and Luke to construct his sayings with
      proto-gnostic inclinations. I even think the author of Thomas knew
      and used 1 Corinthians. I doubt very much that logion 12 goes back
      in any way to the historical Jesus. James the Just appears to
      have been a cult figure in later gnostic circles. Just like with Mary
      Magdalene you could use these wellknown figures to market
      your gnostic ideas through special heavenly revelations.

      Best wishes

      Antonio
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