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[Synoptic-L] Markan priority is dead!

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  • John Lupia
    Synoptic-L@bham.ac.uk ... the ... Ted, Rev. Brian Wilson is far from being alone about this. You correctly stated: In my post I provided evidence that I find
    Message 1 of 3 , Jul 3, 2001
      Synoptic-L@...


      To Ted Weeden:

      >Brian,

      >I am trying to understand what you find is missing in my argument for the
      >Matthean and Lukan dependence on canonical Mark, which argument concludes
      >that canonical Mark is chronologically prior to Matthew and Luke.   In my
      >post I provided evidence that I find makes the incontrovertible case for
      the
      >Matthean and Lukan dependence on canonical Mark.  


      Ted,
      Rev. Brian Wilson is far from being alone about this. You correctly stated:
      "In my post I provided evidence that I find makes the incontrovertible".
      You have none.

      On the TC-List (Fri, 15 Jun 2001) Mark Goodacre pointed out that:

      >there are lots of Minor Agreements between Matthew and Luke against
      Mark, c. 1000 in Neirynck's list. These MAs are prima facie a
      problem for the theory of Matthew's and Luke's independent
      redaction of Mark and it is for this reason that defenders of that
      view often appeal to the possibility that they were generated in
      textual transmission. This is completely impossible which I have pointed out
      both on this list and on the TC-list.

      My response was a post on the TC-List dated Fri, 15 Jun 2001:

      >Confronted with a preponderance of evidence that divorces the creation and
      generation of the original text of Luke and Matthew from Mark, Marcan
      prioritists seek an implausible explanation that betrays desperation.
      Neirynck's list evidences Mark being written after the first two Synoptics.
      The question of priority is which one: Luke or Matthew? Matthean
      prioritists have stated their case the best they can. Lucan prioritist have
      not even begun.


      Cordially in Christ,
      John
      <><

      John N. Lupia
      501 North Avenue B-1
      Elizabeth, New Jersey 07208-1731 USA
      JLupia2@...
      <>< ~~~ <>< ~~~ <>< ~~~ ><> ~~~ ><> ~~~ ><>
      "during this important time, as the eve of the new millennium approaches . .
      . unity among all Christians of the various confessions will increase until
      they reach full communion." John Paul II, Tertio Millennio Adveniente, 16





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    • Mark Goodacre
      ... I am not clear why you have brought up that discussion in this context. Indeed quoting it out of its context there generates a misleading impression
      Message 2 of 3 , Jul 3, 2001
        On 3 Jul 2001, at 10:34, John Lupia wrote:

        > On the TC-List (Fri, 15 Jun 2001) Mark Goodacre pointed out that:

        I am not clear why you have brought up that discussion in this
        context. Indeed quoting it out of its context there generates a
        misleading impression concerning what I was in fact saying.
        Further, please note that the quotation does not accurately report
        what I said -- the final sentence below is not mine and does not in
        any way represent my views.
        >
        > >there are lots of Minor Agreements between Matthew and Luke against
        > Mark, c. 1000 in Neirynck's list. These MAs are prima facie a
        > problem for the theory of Matthew's and Luke's independent
        > redaction of Mark and it is for this reason that defenders of that
        > view often appeal to the possibility that they were generated in
        > textual transmission. This is completely impossible which I have
        > pointed out both on this list and on the TC-list.

        Mark
        -----------------------------
        Dr Mark Goodacre mailto:M.S.Goodacre@...
        Dept of Theology tel: +44 121 414 7512
        University of Birmingham fax: +44 121 414 6866
        Birmingham B15 2TT
        United Kingdom

        http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/goodacre
        Homepage
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        The New Testament Gateway

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      • John Lupia
        ... Synoptic-L@bham.ac.uk From: John Lupia To: List Please note that the quotation does not accurately report what Mark Goodacre said -- the final sentence
        Message 3 of 3 , Jul 3, 2001
          On Tue, 3 Jul 2001 20:06:51 +0100, M.S.Goodacre@... wrote:

          > On 3 Jul 2001, at 10:34, John Lupia wrote:
          >
          > > On the TC-List (Fri, 15 Jun 2001) Mark Goodacre pointed out that:
          >
          Synoptic-L@...

          From: John Lupia
          To: List

          Please note that the quotation does not accurately report
          what Mark Goodacre said -- the final sentence below is not his but mine and
          does not in any way represent his views, but, rather, mine.
          >
          > >there are lots of Minor Agreements between Matthew and Luke against
          > Mark, c. 1000 in Neirynck's list. These MAs are prima facie a
          > problem for the theory of Matthew's and Luke's independent
          > redaction of Mark and it is for this reason that defenders of that
          > view often appeal to the possibility that they were generated in
          > textual transmission. This is completely impossible which I have
          > pointed out both on this list and on the TC-list.

          Somehow the spaces got deleted and I missed it. Sorry for such a gross
          blunder. I wish in no way to misrepresent Dr. Goodacre's view. So, I
          repeat that this hypothetical textual transmission theory is a smoking gun
          and no text critic in the world will touch it since it is scientifically
          impossible. The burden of proof is on the shoulders of those who wish to
          demonstrate to the world how this is possible. Once done it indeed will be
          of such sensational consequence that they will have simultaneously proven
          not only Marcan priority but that the Gospels of Luke and Matthew as we now
          know them were the results of universal scribal conspiracy in the
          manipulation of their texts to read vastly un-Marcan for some undisclosed
          reason. Those who propose such theories fail to see the world of difference
          between scribal transmission creating MA's in isolated texts from it having
          been a global phenomenon and having been made very early on. Of course that
          is also why as a hidden agenda such advocates wish to deny any possibility
          to C. P. Thiede's mid 1st century dating of the Magdalen Papyrus of Matthew.
          Please note that I do not put all weight on this as if it were the only
          piece of evidence that destroys this view. Nor do I wish to argue about the
          dating of it here. That is appropriate for the TC-List. Moreover,
          Neirynck's list or Neirynck's wall, to use a better term, is an
          insurmountable hurdle for Marcan prioritists and it is not the only one.

          Cordially in Christ,
          John
          <><

          John N. Lupia
          501 North Avenue B-1
          Elizabeth, New Jersey 07208-1731 USA
          JLupia2@...
          <>< ~~~ <>< ~~~ <>< ~~~ ><> ~~~ ><> ~~~ ><>
          "during this important time, as the eve of the new millennium approaches . .
          . unity among all Christians of the various confessions will increase until
          they reach full communion." John Paul II, Tertio Millennio Adveniente, 16





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