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RE: the Lukan context of the LP

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  • Lamerson, Sam
    Jeffery, I am currently writing my dissertation in the area of forgiveness in Matthew (obviously much more specific than that, but that will do for now) and am
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 6, 1998
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      Jeffery,
      I am currently writing my dissertation in the area of
      forgiveness in Matthew (obviously much more specific than that, but that
      will do for now) and am doing some work on M's version of the LP. When
      you say that the prayer is not about "praying down the end times" would
      you then disagree with N.T. Wrights analysis of the eschatological and
      exilic elements of the prayer (thy kingdom come)? Much of my work has
      to do with the link between forgiveness and exile and I am convinced
      that Wright is correct in much of what he argues (or Steck before him).
      I do wonder how a first century Jew would have viewed the prayer and
      what he would have thought of several elements.

      Blessings

      Sam Lamerson
      Knox Seminary

      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Jeffrey B. Gibson [SMTP:jgibson000@...]
      > Sent: Thursday, July 02, 1998 6:00 PM
      > To: Crosstalk
      > Cc: Synoptic-L; graphai
      > Subject: the Lukan context of the LP
      >
      > List-Members
      >
      > I'm beginning my probe into the Lukan context of the LP - which,
      > you'll
      > recall is in the interest of finding evidence that the LP is a prayer
      > which is more concerned with keeping the disciples from apostasy than
      > "praying down" the "end times". So I have several questions upon which
      > I'd like feed back from anyone who'd care to reply and expecially from
      > anyone who has been doing work on Luke (not my forte)
      >
      >
    • Jeffrey B. Gibson
      ... Sam, Thanks for your message. Funny you should mention Wright. I have not yet read his _The Lord and His Prayer_ but I had just last night resolved to do
      Message 2 of 6 , Jul 6, 1998
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        Lamerson, Sam wrote:
        >
        > Jeffery,
        > I am currently writing my dissertation in the area of
        > forgiveness in Matthew (obviously much more specific than that, but that
        > will do for now) and am doing some work on M's version of the LP. When
        > you say that the prayer is not about "praying down the end times" would
        > you then disagree with N.T. Wrights analysis of the eschatological and
        > exilic elements of the prayer (thy kingdom come)? Much of my work has
        > to do with the link between forgiveness and exile and I am convinced
        > that Wright is correct in much of what he argues (or Steck before him).
        > I do wonder how a first century Jew would have viewed the prayer and
        > what he would have thought of several elements.
        >

        Sam,

        Thanks for your message. Funny you should mention Wright. I have not yet
        read his _The Lord and His Prayer_ but I had just last night resolved to
        do so today! So as to whether I disagree with him I cannot as yet say.
        However, Tom and I were both students of G.B. Caird, so I am enormously
        sympathetic to Tom's view of the eschatology of Jesus as set out in
        _Jesus and the Victory of God_, a view which owes much to Caird's own
        work on eschatology and the historical Jesus. So I can't imagine he and
        I are too far off from one another, at least in the idea that if any
        eschatology pervades the LP it is one which sees the BASILELIA as having
        already dawned. It is this sense of KAIROS - that is, a sense that
        Israel is even now being visited by God and how it responds in the light
        of this will determine it's fate - that stands behind the LP.

        Now as to the meaning of the petition "let your Kingdom come": you
        should note that I carried on some discussion of this point on crosstalk
        and Synoptic-L back in February of this year. But in case you cannot
        access the archives to these lists, I'm appending as an attachment, the
        posting I sent in which I first mooted my musings on this matter. Feel
        free to respond to it.

        Also, I should very much like to see (as I'm sure others on the lists
        above would too) what you have to say about the forgiveness petition in
        the LP as well as what the additional teaching on forgiveness which
        Matthew attaches to the LP does to the meaning of the LP as a whole.

        Yours,

        Jeffrey Gibson


        P.S. plase ignore the fact that the attachment is labeled "bebop". I had
        to name it something, and bebop was the first thing that came to mind.
        That's the influence of listening to a golden oldies station as I write!

        --
        Jeffrey B. Gibson
        7423 N. Sheridan Road #2A
        Chicago, Illinois 60626
        e-mail jgibson000@...
      • Edgar Krentz
        Jeff, just a quick bibliographic not e. Do you know THE LORD S PRAYER, Supplementary Issue No. 2 to The Princeton Seminary Bulletin? It was published in 1992,
        Message 3 of 6 , Jul 8, 1998
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          Jeff, just a quick bibliographic not e.

          Do you know THE LORD'S PRAYER, Supplementary Issue No. 2 to The Princeton
          Seminary Bulletin? It was published in 1992, a report on the 1991 Frederick
          Neumann Symposium on the Theological Interpretation of Scripture.

          And then, one substantive comment. I find in Jesus' words both the
          conviction that the Kingdom was among them and that it still lies in the
          [immediate] future? You seem to regard that as impossible. Such enigmatic
          seeming contradictions arecharacteristic of his words.

          And it seems to me that is also true in 2 Isaiah. Comment?

          Peace, Ed Krentz


          *******************************************
          Edgar Krentz, Prof. of New Testament
          Lutheran School of Theology at Chicago
          1100 EAST 55TH STREET
          CHICAGO, IL 60615
          Tel: [773] 256-0752; (H) [773] 947-8105

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