RE: the Lukan context of the LP
I am currently writing my dissertation in the area of
forgiveness in Matthew (obviously much more specific than that, but that
will do for now) and am doing some work on M's version of the LP. When
you say that the prayer is not about "praying down the end times" would
you then disagree with N.T. Wrights analysis of the eschatological and
exilic elements of the prayer (thy kingdom come)? Much of my work has
to do with the link between forgiveness and exile and I am convinced
that Wright is correct in much of what he argues (or Steck before him).
I do wonder how a first century Jew would have viewed the prayer and
what he would have thought of several elements.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeffrey B. Gibson [SMTP:jgibson000@...]
> Sent: Thursday, July 02, 1998 6:00 PM
> To: Crosstalk
> Cc: Synoptic-L; graphai
> Subject: the Lukan context of the LP
> I'm beginning my probe into the Lukan context of the LP - which,
> recall is in the interest of finding evidence that the LP is a prayer
> which is more concerned with keeping the disciples from apostasy than
> "praying down" the "end times". So I have several questions upon which
> I'd like feed back from anyone who'd care to reply and expecially from
> anyone who has been doing work on Luke (not my forte)
- Lamerson, Sam wrote:
> I am currently writing my dissertation in the area of
> forgiveness in Matthew (obviously much more specific than that, but that
> will do for now) and am doing some work on M's version of the LP. When
> you say that the prayer is not about "praying down the end times" would
> you then disagree with N.T. Wrights analysis of the eschatological and
> exilic elements of the prayer (thy kingdom come)? Much of my work has
> to do with the link between forgiveness and exile and I am convinced
> that Wright is correct in much of what he argues (or Steck before him).
> I do wonder how a first century Jew would have viewed the prayer and
> what he would have thought of several elements.
Thanks for your message. Funny you should mention Wright. I have not yet
read his _The Lord and His Prayer_ but I had just last night resolved to
do so today! So as to whether I disagree with him I cannot as yet say.
However, Tom and I were both students of G.B. Caird, so I am enormously
sympathetic to Tom's view of the eschatology of Jesus as set out in
_Jesus and the Victory of God_, a view which owes much to Caird's own
work on eschatology and the historical Jesus. So I can't imagine he and
I are too far off from one another, at least in the idea that if any
eschatology pervades the LP it is one which sees the BASILELIA as having
already dawned. It is this sense of KAIROS - that is, a sense that
Israel is even now being visited by God and how it responds in the light
of this will determine it's fate - that stands behind the LP.
Now as to the meaning of the petition "let your Kingdom come": you
should note that I carried on some discussion of this point on crosstalk
and Synoptic-L back in February of this year. But in case you cannot
access the archives to these lists, I'm appending as an attachment, the
posting I sent in which I first mooted my musings on this matter. Feel
free to respond to it.
Also, I should very much like to see (as I'm sure others on the lists
above would too) what you have to say about the forgiveness petition in
the LP as well as what the additional teaching on forgiveness which
Matthew attaches to the LP does to the meaning of the LP as a whole.
P.S. plase ignore the fact that the attachment is labeled "bebop". I had
to name it something, and bebop was the first thing that came to mind.
That's the influence of listening to a golden oldies station as I write!
Jeffrey B. Gibson
7423 N. Sheridan Road #2A
Chicago, Illinois 60626
- Jeff, just a quick bibliographic not e.
Do you know THE LORD'S PRAYER, Supplementary Issue No. 2 to The Princeton
Seminary Bulletin? It was published in 1992, a report on the 1991 Frederick
Neumann Symposium on the Theological Interpretation of Scripture.
And then, one substantive comment. I find in Jesus' words both the
conviction that the Kingdom was among them and that it still lies in the
[immediate] future? You seem to regard that as impossible. Such enigmatic
seeming contradictions arecharacteristic of his words.
And it seems to me that is also true in 2 Isaiah. Comment?
Peace, Ed Krentz
Edgar Krentz, Prof. of New Testament
Lutheran School of Theology at Chicago
1100 EAST 55TH STREET
CHICAGO, IL 60615
Tel:  256-0752; (H)  947-8105
Reply to: ekrentz@... (office)